Instant Throws (ITs) - Why not? - much-revised & more-educated question
SquishToGo
from another thread, explored it in practice, and here's my revised
question.
How I see it, when you catch the disc and want to perform an instant
throw (IT), no pausing or change of grip, every major throw (in Wiki)
comes into play. When right side up, you can throw an instant
backhand (when to your left) or forehand (when to your right) when the
disc is below your chest because you catch it underhand. When it's
above your chest you should catch overhand, so you can use an overhand
or duck (to your right) and a peach (beach/forehand thumber) on your
left. For upside down catch, I believe you would use the hammer (up),
soober (left), and normal thumber (right), for above chest, and no
idea what you'd use under it.
Tabling whether I have this right for a moment, whatever techniques
you believe you should use for an IT, why not use them more? Whenever
you are *not* point-blank guarded, and there's a moment to toss the
disc to an open offender in a good position, that's a great play, if
not always (maybe you think you can get it further if you stop and
think and pivot), especially in succession. This takes a lot of skill
and focus 'cause you have no time to think, and it's that useful. In
twelve years of playing and organizing pickup teams and playing in a
small league for a summer, I don't see these moves.
I'm baffled but open to correction. Please help me out. For the
original thread search for "why the flying." Thanks.
Mark -Mortakai- Moran
Definitely ITs are used for Greatest attempts.
danfri...@gmail.com
SquishToGo
Sure, we all agree on that. But what about the much more common
scenario, during game? I never see them. I looked up ultimate games
on google and on the fourth vid, it was three minutes into the game
before anyone threw one. Why not every other catch?
Manzell
> from another thread, explored it in practice, and here's my revised
> question.
>
> How I see it, when you catch the disc and want to perform an instant
> throw (IT), no pausing or change of grip, every major throw (in Wiki)
> comes into play.
The simple answer is, it is relatively easy to complete a pass to gain
yards, even against a good defense. In the elite game, play turns on
very, very few turnovers, so why should a team attempt a risky throw
when they could settle for a few moments and complete an easier pass
for as much yardage. If one believes that the D can't stop you anyhow,
taking risks becomes less and less logical.
h.infe...@gmail.com
> Why not every other catch?
How about...
1) Most players/teams don't practice. And, if they actually touch a
disc outside of game nights, IT throws are going to be way down on the
to-do list. Think about all the stuff you'd teach your team before
you'd get around to IT throws.
2) You don't see these moves because the situation that calls for them
just isn't that common. Squish... take a moment to think through the
flow of a typical game. What's your estimate for how often everything
sets up well for an IT? Every other catch? Really? Some of the IT
risks and drawbacks I've listed below shrink that window further.
3) Extra risks/drawbacks of ITs:
i) encouragement of unnecessary one-handed catches. You can't afford
one-handed gaks when two hands would have ensured continued
possession.
ii) rapid shift of focus from catch to throw also increases chance of
drops. Good players see the disc all the way in before shifting focus.
iii) more chance of a poor throw due to compressed amount of time to
properly grip the disc (esp. in wet and/or windy weather) .
iv) some IT throws don't allow for an a throwing arc away from the
defender and into space ahead of the receiver (e.g. the peach).
v) less time to spot a poach.
vi) less time to make eye contact with the receiver.
vii) less time to analyze separation between receiver and defenders in
the area.
viii) intent on making a quick throw, you may be missing a better
option downfield.
ix) defenders will leave receivers open on the sidelines just to get
you to throw your IT so that they can slap on a trap.
x) if you start throwing ITs regularly, savvy defenders will wise up
and bait the throw (in the same way zone defenders will bait the
automatic swing after a dump).
SquishToGo
organized pickup for ten years, and that's what I'm talking about.
2. Why is it risky? That's the total inverse of what it is. It's
100% un-risky. You're open. He's open. Great Throw. Toss him the
disc. Or, wait for everyone to be guarded. Zero risk.
SquishToGo
elite. I played a league for a summer and organize pickup for twelve
years. That's my realm of discussion.
> sets up well for an IT? Every other catch? Really? Some of the IT
It's set up every time there's a good open man anywhere on the field
that you can get the disc to from the position caught.
> drops. Good players see the disc all the way in before shifting focus.
Good tennis players catch the ball really well before looking where to
toss it.
> iii) more chance of a poor throw due to compressed amount of time to
Do me a favor, I'm serious. Humor me. Take into account the four
disc-up ITs I mention and practice whipping the disc instantly back
and forth with a friend until you can get a hundred throws. Much more
skill, twice as fast, and *zero* chance of missing if your practice
friend is open!
> iv) some IT throws don't allow for an a throwing arc away from the
You can't nitpick, I can list a dozen hammer downsides but it's used
often.
> v) less time to spot a poach.
> vi) less time to make eye contact with the receiver.
> vii) less time to analyze separation between receiver and defenders in
> the area.
Tell Tom Brady to take a couple more seconds throwing the football
because it's a downside to have the skill to focus and act quickly.
> viii) intent on making a quick throw, you may be missing a better
> option downfield.
"Could be better" VS "Good immediate throw before you're guarded".
Why does the first blow away the other?
> ix) defenders will leave receivers open on the sidelines just to get
> x) if you start throwing ITs regularly, savvy defenders will wise up
Some marines play ultimate without having to catch the disc. It lands
and they tackle eachother for it (really). Your argument for this is
"If we start catching, maybe the defense will take that into account"
SquishToGo
*help* your game to:
1. Whip disc-up ITs back and forth with someone during practice. This
takes triple the skill and will improve your reaction, focus, speed,
and one-hand catches.
2. Pick a couple points a game and think the entire point "where would
an IT be useful if it wasn't a useless move?" This doubles your
general focus to always be ready for an IT even if you never use t.
3. In practice or game, pick and work on a couple difficult maneuvers
like a successive backhand IT relay down the whole field. How can
this not help?
Most of your talk comes from inexperience *with this stuff*. Someone
might explain a slam dunk or a hammer if one was never tried during
game and guarenteed everyone will go "that sounds strange and
unusable". Humor me for five minutes a week, and try practicing of an
entire REALM of techniques that take extreme focus and skill, and
*then* lock me up.
h.infe...@gmail.com
When the day arrives that players are willing to dedicate themselves
more seriously to mastering disc skills, ITs may very well find a
useful niche. But I'd suggest the vast majority of players aren't yet
ready to turn their attention to "an entire REALM of techniques that
take extreme focus and skill". Because they are not Tom Brady. They
just don't have his "extreme focus and skill". Or time. Or interest.
Why don't they? Answer that, and I think you'll be well on your way to
solving your mystery.
Frankie
> I find it a little strange that Frank isn't in this thread. Or the
> other one. You two should get in touch. Shouldn't be that hard.
I've been on the sidelines on this because the original poster has the whole
thing confused.
The entire motion offense is predicated on catching and throwing in one
motion in UIT (ultra-immediate throws).
You don't have to be Tom Brady to practice it and any *elite* player should
be able to throw with whatever grip the catch with for a completion.
h.infe...@gmail.com
wrote:
But Tom's got the time, the desire, the support. I'm not suggesting
you need to have the athletic ability of Tom Brady. But you have to
make room in the rest of your life for dedication to the sport. To get
good at ITs and/or UITs, you've got to put some time in. Especially if
you aren't blessed with top-end athletic ability. Most folks just
won't do it. And that's a big reason Squish isn't seeing these throws
out on the field. Rec players aren't hooked on throwing like you
Frank. Or you Squish. As you've noted Frank, plenty (I'd think you'd
say all... save perhaps an Idris or two) of elite players aren't doing
it.
I've seen a player absolutely dominate a game with nothing more than a
backhand beach style toss. No travels. No cheating. He just can't be
shut down. He gets open. Usually for at 15-30 yd. gain. He tosses it
over to a handler. He heads downfield. Repeat. Repeat. Score.
No ITs. No UITs. He doesn't need them. He doesn't drop it. He waits
patiently for an easy pass and makes it.
Would he be even better with the ability to throw ITs/UITs? Of course.
But he's unstoppable anyway. Why not spend more time on the rest of
his life?
Adam Tarr
> thanks for your further feedback. FYI, I can't speak to super-
> elite. I played a league for a summer and organize pickup for twelve
> years. That's my realm of discussion.
Well, if we're talking about league or pickup level players, then my
advice is, take a deep breath and look around. At low levels, rushed
decisions lead to more turnovers than good offensive opportunities.
Quick throws are extremely valuable for good throwers against good
defenses; less so at lower levels.
> It's set up every time there's a good open man anywhere on the field
> that you can get the disc to from the position caught.
Yes, but it only provides any meaningful advantage when
a) you know where that person is before you catch the disc, and
b) that person wouldn't be open a half-second later.
That's an awfully rare combination. The rest of the time, you may as
well set and throw. Not wait 5-6 seconds, but a half second to
actually get balanced, look at the field, and set your grip.
> > Good players see the disc all the way in before shifting focus.
>
> Good tennis players catch the ball really well before looking where to
> toss it.
If you're trying to deconstruct his point by applying it to another
sport, you've failed miserably. If tennis players could legally catch
the ball and then serve from where they were standing, they would take
that option most of the time. They can't.
> > iii) more chance of a poor throw due to compressed amount of time to
>
> Do me a favor, I'm serious. Humor me. Take into account the four
> disc-up ITs I mention and practice whipping the disc instantly back
> and forth with a friend until you can get a hundred throws. Much more
> skill, twice as fast, and *zero* chance of missing if your practice
> friend is open!
It's much bigger than zero in a game, when you have defenders and you
generally catch on the move.
I practice quick throws, but I change grips to do it, and I practice
throwing on the move.
> > iv) some IT throws don't allow for an a throwing arc away from the
>
> You can't nitpick, I can list a dozen hammer downsides but it's used
> often.
It's not nitpicking. This is a crucial point. If I take an extra few
fractions of a second to get balanced and set my grip, I can throw the
disc more accurately, with the proper curve, spin, height, and speed
for the situation, and I can get a better appreciation of where the
cutter and his/her defender are, allowing me to appreciate the risk of
the throw.
> > v) less time to spot a poach.
> > vi) less time to make eye contact with the receiver.
> > vii) less time to analyze separation between receiver and defenders in
> > the area.
>
> Tell Tom Brady to take a couple more seconds throwing the football
> because it's a downside to have the skill to focus and act quickly.
Tom Brady DOES take a fraction of a second to get set before every
throw, except for a few desperate heaves when the defense is on top of
him. Tom Brady DOES take a fraction of a second (or more) to see
where defenders are.
You are missing the point. Nobody, or at least none of the
experienced players on this thread, are against catching and throwing
quickly. Again, it's quite common at high levels of ultimate.
Again, again: throwing quickly is great. Catching the disc and
quickly throwing to open space before the defense adjusts to the new
thrower's position is a great offensive strategy. That said, throwing
in the first quarter of a second after you catch the disc, before you
have had a chance to glance at your target, adjust your grip, and
achieve basic balance, is an unnecessary risk. By getting set,
choosing the right grip, and taking a glance at the situation, you
vastly reduce the risk of a turnover, while only losing a fraction of
your temporal window to get the throw off.
Again, again, again: I'm not arguing against throwing very fast. But
give the choice between:
a) learning to very quickly collect oneself, change grips, glance at
the target, and throw a reliable forehand or backhand, or
b) learning to throw from whatever grip you catch it in without taking
an instant to collect yourself or look at the target,
... (a) is a vastly, vastly superior choice. It's not close.
Frankie
Kindly disregard much of what Adam says here. It is mostly nonsense.
that is all.
"Adam Tarr" <ahtarr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2f148b7a-02ec-4d3b...@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
h.infe...@gmail.com
wider variety of useful throws in the game. If players can learn to
move the disc faster without sacrificing focus on the catch and
crucial field awareness, then it should happen. I just wouldn't hold
your breath.
Jed
turnover (adjust grip for a more reliable throw if necessary, assess
relative positions of defender(s) and receiver(s), ensure there's eye
contact, assess proximity and approach of your marker, look for better
offensive opportunities, etc., etc.), while only adding a slight risk
of missing an opportunity on offense (the risk that the player who was
wide open, no longer is a fraction of a second later, and that no
other offensive opportunities present themselves), why wouldn't you
take it?
So little to gain; so much at risk.
Jed
wrote:
> Squish,
>
> Kindly disregard much of what I say here, and anywhere else. It is mostly nonsense.
>
> that is all.
>
Fixed that for you.
SquishToGo
And you barely know me. Try telling me that ADD/bipo/schizo are
mental illnesses. =P
> When the day arrives that players are willing to dedicate themselves
> more seriously to mastering disc skills, ITs may very well find a
> useful niche. But I'd suggest the vast majority of players aren't yet
roflmao. I'm sorry, I'm not being rude!! It's just, 47 (I counted)
messages into these two IT threads taking up half of my work days
(almost), someone says "Well, suuure, you're RIGHT, but nobody out
there has the time to practice tough skills!" =). Whipping the disc
back and forth with someone in practice takes LESS time, because
you're tripling your throws and catches, and so on during game.
SquishToGo
> motion in UIT (ultra-immediatethrows).
Did you make this up?=). Cuz I googled it and got this thread! =)
> You don't have to be Tom Brady to practice it and any *elite* player should
> be able to throw with whatever grip the catch with for a completion.
Then why the massive resistence to admit it should *even be used*?
SquishToGo
Totally wrong.
1. Whipping ITs with someone in practice doubles the use of your
practice time
2. Focusing in game on when to use them just increases your focus to
the level it would be that you'd have to pay attention anyway if you
were good at them.
> But he's unstoppable anyway. Why not spend more time on the rest of
A quantum teleporting football in the hands of Brady.
adam wiseman
"you throw and release the frisbee faster, so you get more reps out of
your throwing practice." this is definitely something that i would
keep rep'ing as the crux of your argument.
please spend this time and enthusiasm practicing conventional throws,
you will be better off. good luck.
Adam Tarr
> Squish,
>
> Kindly disregard much of what Adam says here. It is mostly nonsense.
Frank, do you think this is nonsense:
> > Catching the disc and
> > quickly throwing to open space before the defense adjusts to the new
> > thrower's position is a great offensive strategy.
I don't think you do. How about this?
> > If I take an extra few
> > fractions of a second to get balanced and set my grip, I can throw the
> > disc more accurately, with the proper curve, spin, height, and speed
> > for the situation, and I can get a better appreciation of where the
> > cutter and his/her defender are, allowing me to appreciate the risk of
> > the throw.
Let me put that last one another way.
Say I was going to play for your sectionals team. Say I completely
bought in to your system and was willing to play however you wanted me
to, working as hard as I could to run your motion offense. Assuming
we didn't have weeks for me to work on new throws or become
ambidextrous, would you actually want me throwing lefty throws or
thumber grip throws? Or would you advise me to just stick to
backhands, forehands, scoobers, and push passes for the time being?
Adam Tarr
> roflmao. I'm sorry, I'm not being rude!!
Well, maybe not intentionally, but it appears to come naturally.
> It's just, 47 (I counted)
> messages into these two IT threads taking up half of my work days
> (almost), someone says "Well, suuure, you're RIGHT, but nobody out
> there has the time to practice tough skills!" =).
Just because one person sort of says you're right, doesn't make you
right. It might just make him (sort of) wrong.
SquishToGo
Show me how to catch a disc underhand (back/forehand ready) anywhere
above your chest.
SquishToGo
Yet I still haven't mastered the art of a perfect oxymoron of rudely
calling someone rude in the same breath. I'm not alone, I'm Aragorn
against 40 orcs, I have to hit faster (even unintentionally--sorry
Thorg, didn't see ya there), because I'm the only one who's thrown
enough ITs to do so.
SquishToGo
levels'. You all keep alluding to the top five percent.
> b) that person wouldn't be open a half-second later.
You would *never* through the disc in that case. If people are
running around trying to get open the second the disc is caught, then
they can plan two seconds ahead and get open right before that.
> well set and throw. Not wait 5-6 seconds, but a half second to
> actually get balanced, look at the field, and set your grip.
You forgot the 1-10 second stall count.
> It's much bigger than zero in a game, when you have defenders and you
Normal Practice Throw = 100%
Normal Practice IT = 100%
Percent NPT in-game modification: your_number_here
Percent NPIT in-game modification: my_number_here
Why does YourNPTmod NotEqual MyNPITmod ?
> It's not nitpicking. This is a crucial point. If I take and extra few
"A hammer makes an aweful poll" is also a crucial point, but it's not
argument for its total non-use.
> fractions of a second to get balanced and set my grip, I can throw the
> disc more accurately, with the proper curve, spin, height, and speed
> for the situation, and I can get a better appreciation of where the
> cutter and his/her defender are, allowing me to appreciate the risk of
> the throw
I can do this too. "With the proper focus I can throw the disc
extremely accurately with the proper curve, spin, eight, and speed,
with negligible difference in awareness of the field, allowing me to
pass the disc before everyone on the field is guarded."
> Tom Brady DOES take a fraction of a second to get set before every
It's a lot harder in football for lots of reasons just like it's
easier in badminton to just bonk the birdie. If Brady was an ultimate
quarterback he would jump-peach the disc two thirds of the time.=)
Adam Tarr
> > Well, maybe not intentionally, but it appears to come naturally.
>
> Yet I still haven't mastered the art of a perfect oxymoron of rudely
> calling someone rude in the same breath.
You've apparently mastered the art of not understanding what an
oxymoron is, though. Even if had denied being rude (which I didn't)
it still wouldn't be an oxymoron, although it would have been
hypocrisy.
> I'm not alone, I'm Aragorn
> against 40 orcs, I have to hit faster (even unintentionally--sorry
> Thorg, didn't see ya there), because I'm the only one who's thrown
> enough ITs to do so.
This is hardly the attitude of someone here to learn. It seems like
you're here more for self affirmation, or just to argue, rather than
in order to actually understand how or why club players play the way
they do. So, good luck with your ITs.
SquishToGo
If you actually had the time, learning lefty would be useful, yes, of
course. I never gave a time frame. You can throw ITs for 40 years.
But it's no comparison; stop using gross exaggeration to win your
point. I learned a *decent* peach in a month and I freaking suck.
Adam Tarr
> > b) that person wouldn't be open a half-second later.
>
> You would *never* through the disc in that case. If people are
> running around trying to get open the second the disc is caught, then
> they can plan two seconds ahead and get open right before that.
"throw" not "through"
Read that section from my previous post again. You completely
misunderstood my argument. That was a hypothetical situation.
> > It's not nitpicking. This is a crucial point. If I take and extra few
>
> "A hammer makes an aweful poll" is also a crucial point, but it's not
> argument for its total non-use.
"pull" not "poll"
"That throw is significantly inferior a throw that is equally
applicable in non-greatest situations", *is* an argument for its non-
use.
> I can do this too. "With the proper focus I can throw the disc
> extremely accurately with the proper curve, spin, eight, and speed,
> with negligible difference in awareness of the field, allowing me to
> pass the disc before everyone on the field is guarded."
Unless you are not human, throwing while still on the move affects
your accuracy and control. Unless you are not human, seeing the field
before you throw affects your awareness of the field.
> > Tom Brady DOES take a fraction of a second to get set before every
>
> It's a lot harder in football for lots of reasons
OK, fine. Don't bother bringing football up, then.
SquishToGo
If I was desperate enough to start calling you an idiot for quick
typos, I would note you missed an "I" here.
> This is hardly the attitude of someone here to learn. It seems like
And it seems like a few of you (a *few* of you) have special browers
that delete anything resembling "I'm sorry if I come off a little
rude, I'm infinitely appreciative of everything I've learned here"
SquishToGo
Throwing to a still target is as 100% accurate as a non-IT. The
accuracy doesn't vanish when you add difficulty.
> OK, fine. Don't bother bringing football up, then.
And you bring me up a perfect metaphor in the English language.
Frisbee is *based* on football.
Adam Tarr
> > Even if had denied being rude
>
> If I was desperate enough to start calling you an idiot for quick
> typos, I would note you missed an "I" here.
If I *were* desperate enough. Better yet, get rid of the whole
preamble and just call me an idiot. It's much more honest.
> > This is hardly the attitude of someone here to learn. It seems like
>
> And it seems like a few of you (a *few* of you) have special browers
> that delete anything resembling "I'm sorry if I come off a little
> rude, I'm infinitely appreciative of everything I've learned here"
Much like saying "I'm not being rude!!" doesn't erase the rudeness of
a comment, saying "I really appreciate all the input" doesn't erase
comments betraying a lack of respect for others' views - such as
equating your views with Aaragorn and the other posters' views with a
horde of orcs, for instance.
Adam Tarr
>
> Throwing to a still target is as 100% accurate as a non-IT. The
> accuracy doesn't vanish when you add difficulty.
It looks like you missed my point. I'm talking about throwing on the
run, or while airborne/twisting, versus throwing when stationary and
balanced. I'm not referring to the motion (or lack of motion) of
the target receiver.
SquishToGo
childish. Both of us. If you think I'm too rude, fine, we disagree.
There.
Adam Tarr
I don't think you're too rude. This is rec.sport.disc; rudeness is,
more or less, par for the course here. I just think it's silly for
you to follow rude statements with the line "I'm not being rude".
That's hypocrisy, which bugs me a lot more than rudeness does.
Similarly, it's silly to ask people to explain their disagreement with
you, and then imply that their opinion lacks merit because they don't
have the experience to appreciate your viewpoint. If you really think
you understand something we don't, then don't frame it as a question.
Just go the Frank route, and tell us why we're wrong.
jeremia...@gmail.com
superior
as the dump, a player should know where the swing receiver is(and is
going to be) so the throw could be almost reflexive(like a short stop
throwing to first)
the fastest throw(in terms of time from the dump catch to the swing
catch) gives the swing receiver maximum time to throw unguarded
the dump does not have a ton of options to assess, merely the
responsibility to swing the disc cross field quickly so that the swing
receiver can take advantage of the time between the disc swinging and
the defense adjusting
or maybe i just think i know something because of my recent summer
league victory
h.infe...@gmail.com
themselves
> > more seriously to mastering disc skills, ITs may very well find a
> > useful niche. But I'd suggest the vast majority of players aren't yet
>
> roflmao. I'm sorry, I'm not being rude!! It's just, 47 (I counted)
> messages into these two IT threads taking up half of my work days
> (almost), someone says "Well, suuure, you're RIGHT, but nobody out
> there has the time to practice tough skills!" =). Whipping the disc
> back and forth with someone in practice takes LESS time, because
> you're tripling your throws and catches, and so on during game.
Sigh.
Squish... please go back and read what I wrote more carefully. Note
the use of the words "may" and "niche".
You know... I think it comes down to this:
Show me.
Take some video of you dicing up the competition with ITs. So I can
see if the opponent is actually playing D. So I can see if these
throws are all you say they are. So that I can see what patterns your
O takes on when ITs are used instead of the alternatives. And if that
video is chopped down to highlights, put the lowlights in too. Don't
skew the results. Put out out an honest assessment.
Just show me.
Until then, I'm going to spend my time working on stuff I sincerely
believe will give me a better return on my investment.
StockOption
As a defender, I poach. A lot. Smart? Debatable. But one thing that I
love as a poacher, are immediate throws, because they are the obvious
throws and thus extremely easy to anticipate. If you know someone's
prone to quick throws, you can see an opportunity to get an easy D as
soon as a disk is released toward the thrower. That gives plenty of
time to set yourself and bait the throw before the IT thrower has
caught it (and subsequently immediately throw it again). Plus the
thrower normally only sees the cutter and the defender, which makes
the job that much easier. And it's usually the case that if it's good
for the defense then it's bad for the offense.
SquishToGo
less?) this absurd 75-msg DNA strand I pushed on the nice people of
rec.sport.disc, so the three of you still vaguely skimming it can rest
very soon.
> When the day arrives that players are willing to dedicate themselves more seriously to mastering disc skills,
Maybe I inflated the rest a bit as you might go overboard talking to
the two or three people in a week of holding a "Vote for Peach" sign
to come up and say "I don't like him, but I guess he's not Hitler."=),
but your post was a little misleading. This phrase necessarily
implies "Players haven't mastered disc skills." Did you mean IT
skills? or "all skills"? Because as is it includes backhands and
forehands and basically says nobody's a pro yet, augmented by "frisbee
players just don't have brady's skill" which would imply "we're not
that good", not your paradoxical "and we don't need them."
I'm only nitpicking because I think it's a key freudian slip of
someone who might see a little bit more worth in my argument than
you're aware of. I know that sounds pretentous, but part of the
insanity of continuously screaming "the earth is round" at people
wondering what the flying heck the deal is with the mass denial
(IMHO), is analyzing the psychology of it all, and in infinite
humility I've concluded I'm simply the second coming of Jesus and the
Bible is all about Peaches, and you all already secretly recognize the
exponentially growing sport of Jump-Thumber Ultimate which I'll
singlehandedly convert you all to just before being ironically peached
to death with ultra-stars.
> Just show me.
This is where we astronomically agree. If I haven't calculated by now
that the infinitesimal rate at which I convince people would require a
few Harvard grad studies, several blockbuster movies, and an
unalterable Wiki article, to fully convince you all, I wouldn't
already be on it! No, that doesn't mean this was for nothing; other
than tweaking five of your peachometers up a couple nanons, I've
absorbed invaluable data that will help me do all that, and I'll email
you all a thank you link after the public signing of my book "A Brief
History of Peaches and the Universe."
If you're bored you can check in on my progress at http://squish7.com/frisbee
I've already started re-writing my opinions of this based on your
input.
> Until then, I'm going to spend my time
Do me one tiny favor, just scantly consider spending 4% more of your
time during practice whipping the disc back and forth with someone b/c
if nothing else, it simply *doubles* your practice time!
Squish
adam wiseman
"Show me how to catch a disc underhand (back/forehand ready) anywhere
above your chest."
Pancake
SquishToGo
have to a) reach way up, b) move your hand from over it to under it,
c) lower the disc to throw it from b/h position. No more. I'm done.
Absurdity! I can't argue the sky is orange!!
danfri...@gmail.com
yourself and crush us all?
I've learned 2 very important life lessons:
1: Don't give away everything you know.
Douglia
Take your meds, please.
sra...@gmail.com
SquishToGo
Spend half of your week in debate with thirty crazy people while
maintaining total sanity, please. =)
SquishToGo
Good idea, I'll throw the disc when everyone has their backs turned.
=)
John, Mark, I'll tell you a secret, you should love thy neighbors as
thyselves, but this is just between us!