Game the Rankings?
Matt.Pasienski
http://scores.upa.org/scores/#college-open/Rankings
This shouldn't be a problem in the long run, assuming random
teams play each other. But the fact that it is possible for
a (no offense NC State B) weaker team to be ranked high
based on victories over other weak teams suggests that it is
possible to game the system.
The UPA could easily disqualify tournaments that explicitly
tried to rig rankings through selective match-ups. But what
would stop a mastermind like Pat Corn or Adam Tarr from
subtly influencing things through knowledge of math and "The
Rules".
Here's the scenario. Luke Johnson, using the North Park
Super Computing Center (NPSCC), engineers the Chicago Invite
to provide easy wins for Great Lakes teams while giving
Central teams very difficult seeds that increase the
likelihood of losing. Nobody really notices or cares at the
time (Luke Tim John is sneaky), but when the Great Lakes
barely gets an extra strength bid, mass hysteria erupts.
A huge part of an Athletic Directors job is to construct a
season that gives the school's (basketball/football) team a
chance for a good (NCAA tournament/Bowl) bid. If I were
planning my season in light of the tremendous benefits of
high rankings, I would save all my ranked games for the part
of the season that benefited my team the most. For Cold
weather teams, right before sectionals; for warm weather
teams, January/February tournaments. (A certain far southern
team, who advocated strongly for a "regular season", would
love it if the national champ was decided in January.)
What do you think nerds?
--
Posted from http://www.rsdnospam.com
Rodney Jacobson
and RRI consider your opponent's strength to come up with your
rating. This is why you'll see situations like the current women's
rankings where 14-0 UNCW is ranked below 5-4 Washington.
NC State and NC State-B both went undefeated at the same tournament.
The results might indicate that the teams were more of an equal split
than a true A-B split.
> I would save all my ranked games for the part of the season that benefited my team the most.
Avoiding play against teams from distant regions seems like a large
price to pay in order to gain a tiny chance of both earning your
region an extra strength bid and finishing regionals exactly in the
wild-card spot.
Chad
wins, but it requires that the majority of teams in your region/
section only play within their region/section. I post this only so the
many eyes of RSD can scrutinize sanctioned results to make sure this
doesn't happen.
I'll use ME regionals bids for UNY in my example because that's where
I am. This would work almost as well for nationals bids.
Let's say SUNY Buffalo and Cornell are the only teams in our section
to play outside of our section. (So far they are the only teams in our
section to play at all). Let's say they do really really well.
Now let's say that we host an UNY tournament where only UNY teams
attend, including SUNY Buffalo and Cornell. Let's say that at that
tournament every game goes to double game point, with teams winning as
much as they lose. Then we do the same thing the next weekend so
everyone gets 10 games. Now every team in our section will be ranked
as high as the average ranking of Cornell and Buffalo, correct? The
section's relative ranking will be higher and earn the top level teams
more bids to regionals.
Isn't it in the top teams' interests to have close games with the
lower teams if they know the lower teams will only play amongst
themselves?
Maybe the UPA won't sanction any tournaments unless there are teams
from multiple sections there?
Don't get me wrong, I love the regular season and playing college
ultimate instead of college+club players+alumni ultimate, but it isn't
flawless.
Mimmo
> NC State and NC State-B both went undefeated at the same
> tournament.
> The results might indicate that the teams were more of
> an equal split
> than a true A-B split.
Was Chucktown a sanctioned tournament? If it was, shouldn't
both teams have turned in Rosters? Shouldn't that have
eliminated the ability for them to do this Equal Split?
Mimmo
and B teams as the Equal Split...although now I'm looking at
the tourney and the Bum Alums played...so I'm probably wrong
Andy Hwang
It was sanctioned, and I think NCSU split their A team into offense
(A) and defense (B) if I remember correctly. I don't know what the
UPA is going to do with the results of that, since I'm assuming NCSU
has an actual B-team somewhere that didn't actually send any players
to Chucktown.
Austin
Yeah you have to fill out a roster. But surprise surprise...that
doesn't legitimize anything. Someone could bring Lebron James to a
tournament and get away with it. You can put anyone with a UPA id on
your roster. So if I just added an extra name to the roster of someone
who didn't come to the tournament, Lebron could pose as him. Except
for the series, no one actually checks the rosters at these
tournaments.
Knappy
fucking Lebron James playing out there".
kdoe
Yea the system is pretty flawed for everyone in my area to worry about
it so much. Up to this year we always laughed at the rankings, now
they are what decides bids...sounds like a great plan.
Slade
surprise...that
doesn't legitimize anything. Someone could bring Lebron
James to a
tournament and get away with it. You can put anyone with a
UPA id on
your roster. So if I just added an extra name to the roster
of someone
who didn't come to the tournament, Lebron could pose as him.
Except
for the series, no one actually checks the rosters at these
tournaments."
I think this will change over the next year or two as people
get more used to the system. At Joint Summit 2011, we plan
to conduct roster checks with photo ID before the first
round (one of several big improvements for next year's JSC).
It's pretty simple if you give your own team a first round
bye. Distribute 1-2 members of your team to each field,
cross-reference a list with names and jersey numbers, and
have everyone lined up with their photo IDs. Takes <5
minutes. Anyone missing at that check-in has to stop by the
TD tent before they can play. If you want, give out copies
of the checklist to all teams in each pool on Saturday.
Rodney Jacobson
> Except for the part when everyone would say, "hey, that's
> fucking Lebron James playing out there".
Yes.
And the point is, it doesn't need to be Lebron James to be noticed.
To gain an advantage by cheating, you'll need to be playing a good
player who is not eligible.
Everyone on your team is likely aware of the cheating - they can see
the roster, they know this player, and probably know why he's not
playing in the series.
Some opponents might know this player, or ask about him.
Pictures from the tournament will go up on the web. Do you ask the
ringer to stay out of your team photos from the tournament? Do you
use a fake name on your team's blog? Anything you do to try to hide
the cheating makes it more clear that it was intentional cheating when
you do get caught. I think the risk of being disqualified from the
series and suspended from UPA events outweighs the small chance that a
ringer will earn your region/section the extra wild-card that gets
your team into nationals/regionals.
If your team is considering cheating at upcoming events, consider (II
A 4 e) the regular season guidelines:
http://upa.org/college/2010_college/season_guidelines#regseason-guidelines
"Teams that are found to have violated the letter or spirit of these
rules or whose behavior undermines the competition structure (e.g.
misrepresenting the composition of a team at a specific event,
misrepresenting the composition of a team over the course of the
season, intentionally playing with ineligible players)may be subject
to ramifications as outlined in the UPA College Season Guidelines
section, Violations and Sanctions. Roster violations should be
reported to the National College Director at ..."