Who else here hates Wisconsin Ultimate?
cougaru...@yahoo.com
team. This past weekend at College Centex, I watched as this team was
not only one of the worse-spirited, but they are without a doubt the
most dangerous and reckless team in college ultimate.
They play with no regaurd to the well being of the other team, and
this weekend I watched as Wisconsin players recklessly throw
themselves around on Defence and in the process came seriously close
to taking out several players.
For those of you who know K-rich from U of North Texas (tall guy;
prolly the next best receiver in the nation after Gibson), he was hurt
this weekend at Centex by a player from Wisconsin. I stood on the
sideline and watched as K-rich lays-out for a disc, and a Wisconsin
defender (#19) comes and makes the worst bid I've ever seen. He
doesn't even attempt to bid on the disc and in the process he LANDS on
K-rich and injures him so severely that he is now out for the rest of
the season.
As far as I know, no apology has been made by anyone from Wisconsin
following the game.
Teams like this ruin the game in my opinion. They have seriously
injured another player and hurt an entire team that looks to his
leadership. Maybe this came off too strong, but I don't ever want to
see something like this happen again.
BrookDaves
I too saw this #19 for wisconsin give Sherwood from Stanford the 'ol
hollywood hogan back scratch on a lay out in the finals at centex, not
even close to the disc. And if I recall correctly didn't brandon, im
sorry...muffin, write some pretty bad stuff about UNT in his blog last
year.
Maybe its all that practice they do without a disc in the winter.
hardw...@yahoo.com
minutes into this clip for a little more on this subject:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1k5aa_hodags-vs-cut-centex-2007
Kenny
> > this weekend I watched as Wisconsin players recklessly throw
> > themselves around on Defence and in the process came seriously close
> > to taking out several players.
> > the season.
>
> > As far as I know, no apology has been made by anyone from Wisconsin
> > following the game.
>
Well duh, obviously Wisconsin sits in their fieldhouse and with WWF on
a TV in the background planning out moves for key players on teams
that prolly won't win the National Championship. Umm I think they have
bigger fish to fry than to sit around and learn how to destroy the
success of other teams. Granted, this is a far stretch from your
description above, but if frisbee players do not realize that the
sport they are playing is probably one of the most dangerous "non-
contact" sports then they have a rude awakening to succumb to.
Wisconsin is a physical team, and they do what needs to be done to win
games. But that doesnt mean that they throw respect or others safety
at bay in process. Wisconsin's #19 is a big dude, and from personally
playing with him, if you put him in one direction towards a disc there
is the likelihood that himself or another player may get injured. Are
you gonna tell him that he can't play frisbee cuz he is extremely
agressive on the field, or has the physique of a professional
linbacker, or even that he just needs to be a lil nicer and caring on
the field no, because he is not purposely intending to injure anyone.
He is a genuinely nice dude, aka, not a complete dick as you may have
previously described him. I think if he had realized that he
destroyed the dude, minus any prior infractions that the two may have
held with one another, he would have made it obvious that he didnt
intend to do this.
I will agree that players play mindlessly and do not care whether or
not another team may get hurt in the process it is stupid, and gets
good players injured for no reason...but if you think that Wisconsin
as a whole is truly that, then you have the right to that opinion,
just dont share it with the rest of us, maybe let Wisconsin know
personally. I am sure you can find Muffin's, Shane's, or any of the
other guys e-mails on the Wisconsin school site.
It completely blows for K-rich that he had to get injured, and if the
events occured as described above then it really blows if he is as
pivotal as you describe him to be for North Texas. Its never a good
thing when you lose a key player let alone one of your biggest
threats.
acdb...@aol.com
> team.
Don't dislike an entire team for what an individual did. If you have a
problem with a player, speak to him/her and/or their captain/coach.
> They play with no regaurd to the well being of the other team, and
> this weekend I watched as Wisconsin players recklessly throw
> themselves around on Defence and in the process came seriously close
> to taking out several players.
Bids, defense and offense, come "seriously close" to injuring players
all the time, particularly in college ultimate. Young players get
amped and want to make the play so badly that sometimes they get too
aggressive, sometimes resulting in injuries. This doesn't make it ok
but its part of the game. Everyone, including myself and you, has
sometime in the past made a bid that may have been a bit reckless.
Thats how young players learn their limitations so that situations
like this can be avoided in the future. Perhaps Wisconsin was playing
too aggressively, but I'd guess they are no more reckless than other
top teams. If you watch the right game, I'm sure you could make the
same argument about most teams. Don't let the fact that your stud was
injured magnify your negative gaze on Wisconsin.
> K-rich from U of North Texas (tall guy;
> prolly the next best receiver in the nation after Gibson)
Really? Lets not get ahead of ourselves here.
> Teams like this ruin the game in my opinion. They have seriously
> injured another player and hurt an entire team that looks to his
> leadership.
I'm sure Wisconsin and the player committing the foul had no had ill
intent in mind. Unfortunately, injuries are a part of the game just
like any other sport. Its awful to lose a star player but I'm
confident that your on-field leader can find positive ways to continue
to lead the team off the field.
bjfre...@gmail.com
In the last 60 seconds of that video, you can see #2 (Dan Heijmen) sky
the wolf-pack and huck the winning goal--one of the more heads up
plays I've ever seen.
You might dislike Wisconsin's aggressive play, but it's aggressive
play like Dan's that should win the Callahan.
Heijmen and Wisconsin, 2007.
Frederick
Hodag Alumnus
Numero 10
#19
Shane "Big CheeseSlut" Hohenstein - It might be hard to believe, but
Shane is bigger and scarier than Will Lokke. The other half of the tag-
team of destruction was also in Spain this last semester. Shaner will
be so jacked to terrorize and destroy on defense, that his mere
presence on the field will bolster the depth and the look of a newly
resurrected D line. His sheer size, ability to get D's with his head,
and "I'll fucking cut your tits off" attitude makes him literally the
most dangerous player on the field. He also spits hotter game than
Snoop Dogg at a Porn Convention and can do some sick shizz with his
body when he goes airborne. When Crack'a'lackin goes full extension
for a layout bid, he transforms into a Hodag Cruise Missile set at
level Painzilla for whoever is actually trying to catch the disc.
Slutface should also be happy to find out that he is no longer the
craziest guy on the team, for no one can compete with Bonkers.
Thugmaster will guard your biggest dude and make him feel like a
pussy. He will pump you up, get in your face, and crush on kids with
his T-Rex style stature. Look for "Big Papa" to bring the pain to kids
near you, specifically all those titty-lickers like J-do, Sea Monster,
and The Beast.
neurodancer
> previously described him. I think if he had realized that he
> destroyed the dude, minus any prior infractions that the two may have
> held with one another, he would have made it obvious that he didnt
> intend to do this.
"He would have made it obvious he didn't intend to do this". If he
injured one of the best players in the country enough to put him out
for the year and didn't realize it (much less apologize), there might
be a problem here. What is he, a fucking cretin? Where were his
teamates, don't they have any balls to step up and say what really
happened? Or were they too busy high fiving each other on the
sideline?
I know some young players get a lot of mileage out of trashing SOTG,
but unless someone can put together a somewhat coherent defense of
this play and others similar to it by Wisconsin that get talked about,
I'm inclined to believe the OP (and a few other people I've talked
to). Maybe the UW player would be better off in rugby. Or
tiddlelywinks.
ND
BladingSawBladeWithBladesComingOutOfItAndStuff
to sign.
>
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1k5aa_hodags-vs-cut-centex-2007
ThatGuy
occasionally there is information worth reading. This, however, is
ridiculous.
I, too, have an opinion of pretty much every college ultimate team I
have played against. Some of them bad, some of them great. There are
negative things I can say about UNT ultimate and other programs in the
country, but feel it would be ridiculous to do so, on a public forum.
Especially when you stress SOTG.
I got back from indoor practice (without a disc) at 11:30 tonight and
had my room-/ teammate read this thread to me. I realize that almost
nobody reading this knows what type of person I am, or what character
I possess. I am not going to try to convince you I am a great guy. I
am not going to try to explain how the UNT incident was a complete
accident, nor explain the fact that I did not lay-out, rather in the
utmost accidental fashion, fell onto K-rich. I am not going to try to
recap my discussion I had with UNT's coach expressing my genuine
concern for his player. I am not going to tell you the story of my
season ending injury that was the direct result of another player, and
you will not be able to read about it on RSD archives. I am not going
to try to do all of this over a public forum.
I am, however, going to tell you that any incident that has been
brought up thus far (Sherwood body slam or K-rich) was not the result
of malicious intent, rather the aggressive nature of the game. I will
also tell you that I do play aggressively. I am not out to hurt
anyone, rather to be the best player I can be. Also, my play will not
change, and I will continue to be as, if not more, aggressive in the
future. I think it is unfortunate when the image of one person, and or
a team can be tarnished by one individual's opinion. Therefore I
invite you to take any concerns up with me personally and save them
from RSD. Thanks,
Shane Hohenstein
Wisconsin Ultimate
Becky
guys I know, also one of the most aggressive D players I know. My
season was ended two months ago by two players who I don't think
needed to be as aggressive as they were, but who am I to judge? I'm
guessing if I were in the same situation I would have gone as hard as
them or as hard as Shane, who fucking knows how hard a player should
go for a disc unless it's them. I know I'm reiterating what has been
said, but Shane is the nicest guy and would never intentionally injure
someone. That is a fact.
Imagine what it'd be like if every team who had one of their best
player's taken out due to a D-bid, posted angrily on here...that's all
we'd be reading.
Shane for president in '08'
broken wrist becky
Mikey
team, including myself, could play with their intensity. Shaner
knocked me to the ground while he tried to block a high disc in the
back of the endzone at Terminus. I would expect anyone on any team to
make the exact same bid, and Shane was making sure I was alright
before I even hit the ground.
Is Wisconsin aggresive? Yes.
Reckless? Not intentionally, and not anymore than anyone else.
timmy
ok so #19 is a very agressive ultimate player. i would agree with
that but he is also one of the nicest guys i know. i've gone to
school with him and been a teammate of him...yes we hate that he left
winona for wisconsin but we still like the dude and he would never
hurt anyone on the field intentionally...he can't help that he has the
ability to be one of the best defenders in the game. you can't be the
best by holding back when the D is right in front of you. shane you
keep layin out for what you can get and don't let anyone tell you
otherwise. yea i'd be mad in a way if he hurt me on the field but i
know how he plays and i know he wasn't hurting anyone intentionally so
deal with the fact that injuries are a part of the game and don't
single a person on a team. say what you want about #19 but anything
bad about him is not the truth...
timmy
winona state
twf...@comcast.net
Hodags. I like they way they play, and not withstanding a few
personalities (every teams has these) I have always had hard-fought,
high spirit games with them.
However i do need to point out a difference between malice/intent and
recklessness. Just because somebody doesnt' "mean" to cause harm,
doesn't make certain behavior Okay. Agressiveness, especially on D,
is a virtue in ultimate, but each player has a responsibility to avoid
contact to prevent injury to oneself and ones' opponents. A person
who injures another player because he is reckless, is only slightly
less culpable that a person who intentionally targets a player.
Agressive ≠Reckless
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~kcl251/alex%20nord.jpg
Notice how Nord makes a concerted effort to contort his body to avoid
any contact with his mark to get the D
dboa...@gmail.com
is one of the best examples of an ultimate teammate and player that
there is. He is huge, angry, intimidating and gnarly on the field and
that makes him a fearsome opponent and a kick-ass teammate. When he
is on the sideline he is in his teammate's ears making them better.
And after the day is done, he is the guy I want to be hanging out
with. Shane's size, agressiveness and speed have led to some serious
contact on the field, but I believe he is now a controlled player and
I know that he would never have any intention of hurting another
player and would feel remorseful if there was an accident.
Lot's of the most exciting plays in ultimate, the ones that bring in
the fans and can raise the profile of the sport are made by superior
athletes, playing at a high speed and with competitiveness and
agression. Sometimes this can lead to an injury, and that is the
price we pay for playing ultimate instead of curling. What I can't
wait for is for some other big dude to stand up and go toe-to-toe with
Shaner, that would bring me out of my seat and get the sport more than
1000 views on YouTube.
CUT rules! Hodags blow!
Dave Boardman
Joseph.H...@gmail.com
> brought up thus far (Sherwood body slam or K-rich) was not the result
> of malicious intent, rather the aggressive nature of the game.
Unlike that time you killed a drifter to get an erection. That was
pure malicious intent.
-Storm-
PS: This whole thread is ridiculous.
Jiffy
> that but he is also one of the nicest guys i know. i've gone to
> school with him and been a teammate of him...yes we hate that he left
> winona for wisconsin but we still like the dude and he would never
> hurt anyone on the field intentionally...he can't help that he has the
> ability to be one of the best defenders in the game. you can't be the
> best by holding back when the D is right in front of you. shane you
> keep layin out for what you can get and don't let anyone tell you
> otherwise. yea i'd be mad in a way if he hurt me on the field but i
> know how he plays and i know he wasn't hurting anyone intentionally so
> deal with the fact that injuries are a part of the game and don't
> single a person on a team. say what you want about #19 but anything
> bad about him is not the truth...
>
> timmy
>
> winona state
TIMMAAAAAAAAA
speaks the truth.
Casey
> I am, however, going to tell you that any incident that has been
> brought up thus far (Sherwood body slam or K-rich) was not the result
> of malicious intent, rather the aggressive nature of the game. I will
> also tell you that I do play aggressively. I am not out to hurt
> anyone, rather to be the best player I can be. Also, my play will not
> change, and I will continue to be as, if not more, aggressive in the
> future. I think it is unfortunate when the image of one person, and or
> a team can be tarnished by one individual's opinion. Therefore I
> invite you to take any concerns up with me personally and save them
> from RSD. Thanks,
> Shane Hohenstein
> Wisconsin Ultimate
>
Shane (and all the onlookers who have clicked into this car wreck of a
thread),
While I applaud your effort and intensity, your mentality is
indicative of the dangerous schism that is forming at the elite
competitive level of both college and club ultimate. Some players
play to avoid injuring another player, others play to get the disc
without regard for creating situations where other players can (and
ultimately will) be injured.
I accept that you did not mean for Kev to suffer a season-ending
injury. But you should not seek to absolve yourself from your part in
causing this to happen.
I believe you are correct when you say that you did not
_intentionally_ injure him.
You are incorrect when you assume that you are not at fault for his
injuries, or that because you choose to define ultimate as an
"aggressive game" you are no longer responsible for the outcomes of
your overly-aggressive play. You are in control of your own body.
You are in control of your decisions. You are a very aggressive
defender. A byproduct of this aggressive play is the opportunity for
more blocks. Another byproduct is the opportunity for more injuries.
I am no stranger to physical and aggressive play -- at times I've worn
a defender like a cape up and down the field -- and thus far I have
escaped serious injury. But the logic is simple and inescapable, the
more my opponent creates situations where injuries are more likely to
occur the more likely I am to be injured.
If your mentality becomes the norm, then we will play a sport where no
player seeks to avoid creating situations where his opponents can
suffer serious injuries. You will not be able to make a cut without
worrying about how to avoid the imminent collision that will come as
your defender crashes into you. You will not be able to jump for a
disc and land on your feet because your opponent won't see fit to
worry about letting you land rightside up.
You're a good hard-nosed defender. I respect that. But you are a bit
too short-sighted when it comes to the ramifications of your actions.
Casey
UNT coach
DLKar...@gmail.com
anybody:
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~kcl251/alex%20nord.jpg
much love,
dlk
Kebo
still have rules about overaggressive contact.
Personally, I feel that there's a big difference when you can't make a
play on the disc without contact...isn't there a rule about that
somewhere? I've played against guys that have laid out into my back
even when they can't make a play on disc...that's a little over the
line of "being aggressive" and crosses into reckless.
Get horizontal, make big bids...but if you have to go through someone
to do it, you're in the wrong. It's a huge downside to the system
without foul limits and with a foul/contest. There have been guys who
absolutely railed me, and after a foul call say "I was going after the
disc, so contest". That's not how the rules are written, and it's not
how it should be played.
Kebo
Pding
good intentions and a good heart
patrick...@gmail.com
Personally I have played against Shane 3 or 4 times now and here are
my thoughts.
-The first matchup I had a knee brace on post ACL and I think it was
his first year on Wisconsin, but I felt like there was alot of
reckless contact caused by him. Was he doing it on purpose? Doubt it,
it was more a lack of personal control. Is he a jerk for doing it? By
no means, but personality and late bids have little correlation. Case
in point, Will Chen of Stanford lays out late into the back of my legs
at Centetx last weekend, I got pissed but the first thing he does is
say sorry and introduce himself. I great guy I'm sure and I'm glad he
showed he was sorry but I was still upset, but the apology did
actually make me feel better and it was appreciated.
- The next couple times I thought he would get better with the
contact but it was still there alot. I just think that attributes to
different styles of play, I go about it as contact free as possible he
doesn't. I don't thinks its a huge problem until the big bad bid is
made.
to recap: Yeah he is a nice guy, athletic and very physical. Does
being a nice guy excuse his physicality? Probably not. It is
unfortunate that K-Rich goes down, a great player and super nice guy,
to a seemingly bad bid (didnt see it personally).
BUT the real point of my ramblings...
>What I can't
> wait for is for some other big dude to stand up and go toe-to-toe with
> Shaner, that would bring me out of my seat and get the sport more than
> 1000 views on YouTube.
SHANE isnt the biggest guy out there. I mean a&m has a dude bigger
than him in Clay Merritt. 6'4" 220. And to say SHANE has the
physique of a professional linebacker is ridiculous. That is just
Wisconsin lovers pumping themselves up even more, more. But hey if
you win, you win.
Patrick
dusty
> no means, but personality and late bids have little correlation. Case
> in point, Will Chen of Stanford lays out late into the back of my legs
> at Centetx last weekend, I got pissed but the first thing he does is
> say sorry and introduce himself. I great guy I'm sure and I'm glad he
> showed he was sorry but I was still upset, but the apology did
> actually make me feel better and it was appreciated.
Great. I always thought we needed more "Will Chen hit me, but I'm
just happy he chose to touch me so... I actually feel good about it
overall" posts.
Wait, there weren't more posts like that originally? It must be an
isolated incident. We should not judge Will or Stanford by this. I
wait to stand in judgment of you, Mr. Chen!
music on tap: neil young, live at massey hall
dusty.rhodes
at gmail.com
eric....@gmail.com
"Crap. I turfed it. Panic! What do I do...... call a foul."
It's like what the LAPD hate to have happen to them - transgressions
caught on tape.
eric....@gmail.com
> knocked me to the ground while he tried to block a high disc in the
> back of the endzone at Terminus.
That is a foul!!
I'm just saying, read the rules. I understand that, like in the NBA,
people are getting more and more permissive when it comes to contact
and notions of how close you can play to your man - but that play IS a
foul.
(Also, general PSA: read the rules. Lots of players have never
ACTUALLY read the rules all the way through.)
Nick Reeck
line between aggressive and reckless. In my experience, reckless
players do not know they are playing in such a way as to make injury
likely. As such, reform is as probable as "Kenny" quitting getting
plastered and posting semi-coherent thoughts to RSD. It's up to
teammates to set the tone and let a player know that while he's a
great guy and we'll all have some beers after the game, playing
without regard to contact is NOT ok. We've all made a questionable
bid at one point or another, but I think the rational amongst us look
to the rulebook and SOTG and realized that, yeah, we were out of
control and somebody could have gotten hurt and we don't play that way
again. Ever. Given the balance we are dealing with here (upholding
SOTG, playing within the rules, keeping your own body under control
vs. injuring a player, possibly ending his season and/or career), I
honestly don't see how there can be discussion about this or two sides
to the argument. Sure, contact happens sometimes, but if you play
WITHOUT regard to contact (or see it somehow as a means to an end), I
hope at the very least that whatever injuries you cause are on your
conscience. I haven't seen Shane play, so I can't comment on
specifics - but in my experience, this is getting to be a bigger and
bigger problem in the college game, and will eventually spill over
into the club game and ruin it too (and arguably already has).
Also, as a larger player, a person has a greater responsibility than a
smaller player to avoid contact whenever possible. Will Chen lays out
all over the place, but he weighs about 37 pounds. I'm much less
likely to get injured by him than some dude who has, to use the
colloquialism, "the physique of a professional linbacker [sic]."
Besides, in my (admittedly limited) experience, Will Chen neither
plays recklessly nor creates contact needlessly. I might venture to
guess that he apologized because he realized that he was out of line,
and had no intention of repeating that behavior (although the example
in the above context is both useful and appreciated). Is saying that
you're a bigger guy so you have to be more careful fair? No, and it's
not in the rules either (although you can always argue SOTG). It's
just common sense. No D is worth getting someone else injured, and no
game is worth wrecking a competitor's body. It's tempting and easy to
feel differently at times, especially in the heat of battle, but take
a step back. Look at your life as a whole. Does that one D or that
one game define who you are, or even who you are as an Ultimate
player? Is the damage to another player's life worth the risk? You
want to contort yourself and wreck your own body, that's just fine
(and even expected at some levels). You want to "play the disc",
expect contact many times a game, and risk injuring another player,
find a sport where contact is legal.
I'm glad someone brought this up, because it seems to me reckless
contact is accepted as part of the game way more than it should be.
Intention does not negate the end result (what's the road to hell
paved with?), and only mitigates it slightly. I like to play hard,
but jeez, I hurt myself enough as it is without having to watch my
back for some out-of-control fool about to blindside me.
-Reeck
eric....@gmail.com
I think you meant to say, "Will Chen hit me, but I'm just so happy I
touched myself so... I actually feel good about it
overall.
That is what you meant, right? Right?
Getting back on point: intentional or unintentional, Mr. Chen still
fouled yo' ass. (Even with those ridiculous Stanford haircuts. It's
like they just found their daddies' electric razors.)
danfri...@yahoo.com
There's some horrendous triple-teaming in there too. Absolutely
embarrassing.
rickst
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1k5aa_hodags-vs-cut-centex-2007
It seems like wisconsin had video of their play last weekend.
Any chance they have footage of the play in question?
MC
but did they have their numbers shaved in the back of their head??
cougaru...@yahoo.com
off, I took this incident very personally, as would anyone, who
watched their best friend and teammate's season come to an end. Please
note that I never called Shane a dick or anything in that regaurd. I
was by no means calling him an aweful person, because who am I to pass
judgement, but its what happened on the feild that has got me so
upset.
I think my Coach said it best:
"You are incorrect when you assume that you are not at fault for his
injuries, or that because you choose to define ultimate as an
"aggressive game" you are no longer responsible for the outcomes of
your overly-aggressive play. You are in control of your own body.
You are in control of your decisions. You are a very aggressive
defender. A byproduct of this aggressive play is the opportunity for
more blocks. Another byproduct is the opportunity for more injuries."
I know that your goal wasn't to seriously injure someone the way you
did, but it bothers me that Wisconsin has established a program where
aggressive play super-seeds the ideal that this is just a game. I love
Ultimate, don't get me wrong, but its not as if the mainstream
American person gives a damn who wins College Ultimate for 2007. Since
this is the case, why support a "win at all cost" mentallity, if a
byproduct is the disgaurd for the well-being of another person just
because you think its more important to win that one game.
Personal Health > A Sports Game
With that said, I don't want this to become some forum-fued. So I
apologize for the strong words, and I apologize to the Wisconsin
Ultimate team for calling you guys out in such a manner. I just wanted
to get off my chest how frustrated I am with that incident, and the
ideology that aggressive behavior should be encouraged just because
you're playing a competative sport.
UNT Captain,
-Doctor
dude
I was playing against Double Wide in the club series in 2005. One of
their players made a really aggressive and reckless cut and it
resulted in my getting kicked in the face, having a concussion and
geting one of my teeth knocked out. I was in the middle of my first
semester of law school and this extremely dangerous play served to
erase my entire scholastic/academic memory.
My point is, maybe if this same DW player kicked all the reckless
Wisonsin players in the face, then maybe they would forget about their
own bloodthirsty playing styles and develop a little bit of ultimate
courtesy.
Plus, catch with your elbows out to break their faces.
gobosox
something right...and if that means throwing themselves around well
obviously it is working...
b) every single player has made a stupid bid trying to win, its part
of the game. i myself missed and entire season with a torn ligament in
my ankle because some kid layed out after i caught the disc. did i
yell at him? no, nor did i resent him. its part of the game, so man
up..or stop playing
Gravy
ultimate. How long will the UPA let this team continue to "win at all
costs" while ignoring almost half of the rules, especially the Spirtit
of the Game?
JWol...@gmail.com
Muffin and his stupid sunglasses.......... Lame
the dance move burglar
this is such a lame post. i wish i could have the last ten minutes of
my life back. as far as sotg goes, and overly agrresive potentially
hazardous play, who cares about who is most agressive and how
agressive they will be in the future to get a disc? maybe its better
to realize a potentially dangerous situation is about to happen, and
instead of going full out horizontal cruise missile style (or however
the hell wisconsins team describes that player) it might be a wiser
decision to let up on your bid for the disk and let what happens
happen, even if it means missing a d or potentially not scoring a
point. games are long, the season is long, your ultimate career could
be very long. there is more than enough time to prove your tenacious
d ability or the caliber of your team over the span of a season, or
seasons. neither of these will be decided during one dangerous play.
for this reason i feel as if all dangerous bids and plays should be
avoided, i personally will admit to having let off on possible
gettable discs so as to not put anyone at risk. cant we think this
way? even in nationals, i would rather avoid taking someone out than
scoring the game winning goal. fuck kids who play with no respect for
other bodies on the field in the name of agression or in the quest to
win.
Tim
> a) Wisconsin is the best team in the country so they must be doing
> something right...and if that means throwing themselves around well
> obviously it is working...
>
Do you actually mean to suggest that if Wisconsin is winning by being
reckless and disrespectfully dangerous to their competition, that
their style of play is justified?
I guess winning really is everything, and material sucess is the only
measure worth a damn. I sincerely hope I misunderstood you and that
you're not actually either dangerously stupid or incredibly cruel.
This is ultimate. The ends do not justify the means. I'm all for
physical play, but lets not be stupid about it.
(Please note that I have no actual comment about the appropriateness
of Wisconsin's style of play, having not seen enough of it to have an
informed opinion.)
-Tim
Haymaker #1
neurodancer
> Well shane and I were once lovers... He may be aggressive but he has
> good intentions and a good heart
It's funny, everyone in this thread who knows him says how great a guy
he is and most of those who don't have serious questions about what
happened. Well, I don't know him and I'm sure he's a wonderful
fellow, but reading both the pro and con posts here, he sure sounds
like a dick on the Ultimate field to me.
Actually, there could be a way to settle this objectively. How many
players have been seriously injured while marking/being marked/going
after a disc with him? If this is the only one, cool. If it's two,
still probably OK. Three would be seriously pushing it. If it's more
than that he's a dick, a danger to other players and should not be
allowed on the field.
ND
hanspe...@gmail.com
> something right...and if that means throwing themselves around well
> obviously it is working...
>
"winning is everything" mentality, so your argument that Wisconsin (or
any team, I'm not commenting on Wisconsin here, just the larger
argument) is justified in playing wrecklessly because it helps them
win shows that you completely missed his point.
> b) every single player has made a stupid bid trying to win, its part
> of the game. i myself missed and entire season with a torn ligament in
> my ankle because some kid layed out after i caught the disc. did i
> yell at him? no, nor did i resent him. its part of the game, so man
> up..or stop playing
Ok. Here's the thing. Ultimate doesn't have refs. The only reason
it can exist is because players officiate themselves. The rules
specifically prohibit wreckless play, so objectively, you are wrong.
Injuries? Part of the game. Incidental contact? Part of the game.
Playing without regard for opponents' wellbeing? Illegal (and once
again, I'm not saying this particular example qualifies, but that is
what the OP is claiming). So that's like telling someone not to whine
that the other team is traveling intentionally to gain 5 yards per
catch over and over and then denying it because "its part of the
game."
And one other thing. I propose that people stop saying "man up" when
they are referring to ultimate. It doesn't make you look badass. It
makes you look like a tool. Look, I love ultimate. Ultimate's a great
game. Its physically taxing. People get hurt. But stop acting like
its unbelievably hardcore. Ultimate is not a "battle." Its not
football, or hockey, or wrestling, or UFC, or whatever. If you want
to act like a huge badass and brag about your unusually high level of
testoterone and male fertility, then go play something where the rules
encourage hitting others.
krich...@unt.edu
Now some things im about to say may be coming from all the pain pills
I am on since my collar bone has seperated from my sternum and my
upper pectoral muscles have been torn from my collar bone also... No
big deal though.. I can still type.
I personally love watching Wisconsin play because every player on that
team WANTS to win. They WANT to get d's and they do everything they
can to get them. I think whoever is running this team is doing a damn
good job and I dont think they should change anything. Plus after
playing them (for only 10 points) and watching them in the finals, I
would definitely put money on them taking nationals.
As far as the incident though I am still pretty upset about the whole
thing. Everyone who knows Shane has said how great of a guy he is so
it really sucks all this talk is about him because nobody from UNT is
saying anything about his character. I beleieve Shane is a good guy
also, I never talked to him but he was never a dick to me so I cant
judge him personally.
For the people who didnt see the play happen let me fill you in (on
what I kinda remember). I was tip-toeing the line to save a disc from
going out of bounds. After i caught the disc i layed out, out of
bounds where Shane came down on me. I have never seen someone land on
someone after making a bid 5 feet out of bounds. You had no play on
the disc which is why I question your bid. I remember asking my
captain "do i need to get off the field so they can keep playing" and
he said no you are already far enough off the field.
And for the people saying stuff about where the apology was.... Shane
never apologized but I dont see why he would since I guess he thought
he did nothing wrong. BUT their captain Dan, who is a great player
and a really nice guy, came up to me after the game and apologized
about the whole thing and wished me the best of luck.
I probably wont post anything on here ever again but I do like reading
the stupid shit others post on here so keep up the good work. If
people want to 'shut' Wisconsin up just beat them.......... but I dont
think anyone will this season.
-K Rich
strawberry
something right""
so the point here would be if youre on steriods and winning...its all
good.
typical bosox fan
Daag Alemayehu
> Like Many in this thread, I too have long been an admirer of the
> Hodags. Â I like they way they play, and not withstanding a few
> personalities (every teams has these) I have always had hard-fought,
> high spirit games with them.
>
> However i do need to point out a difference between malice/intent and
> recklessness. Â Just because somebody doesnt' "mean" to cause harm,
> doesn't make certain behavior Okay. Â Agressiveness, especially on D,
> is a virtue in ultimate, but each player has a responsibility to avoid
> contact to prevent injury to oneself and ones' opponents. Â A person
> who injures another player because he is reckless, is only slightly
> less culpable that a person who intentionally targets a player.
>
> Agressive ≠Reckless
>
> http://homepages.nyu.edu/~kcl251/alex%20nord.jpg
>
> Notice how Nord makes a concerted effort to contort his body to avoid
> any contact with his mark to get the D
Thank you. Thank you thank you thank you thank you. Perfect post,
Nord picture and all. Some people still have yet to learn that:
Aggressive ≠Reckless
Accidental ≠Incidental
Nice guy off the field ≠Incapable of making bad choices on the field
Anytime somebody gets injured by a play as described by K-Rich, there
is absolutely no acceptable explanation. Unfortunately, the more
popular this sport gets and the more athletic players get, the more
injuries and reckless, idiotic play we're going to see.
Becky
I still don't see how people can judge someone elses bid. You guys all
know that you all make stupid bids sometimes because you think you can
get the disc, I don't wanna hear anyone out there say that they didn't
bid for a disc they could have gotten in their mind, because they
evaluated the situation while going full speed and decided that it
would be too dangerous to go for it, because that would be bullshit.
What if instead of Beau jumping over the kid he accidently kneed him
in the face, breaking his jaw. Would there be a thread on that? People
go for the disc when they think they can get it, they don't stop and
survey the situation while their adrenaline is pumping and they're
going full speed.
And doesn't everybody in ultimate do steroids?? Come on it's the 21st
century.
Becky
twf...@comcast.net
people in this thread seem to think that because Shane didn't Try (or
intend) to cause harm, what he did was okay.
If He (or anybody) makes Reckless bids, that is NEVER OK.
Recklessness has no place in Ultimate.
Recklessness as defined in the Model Penal Code: Consciously
disregarding a substantial and unjustifiable risk.
If anybody knows that they way they play creates a substantial risk of
injuring another player, yet continues to play that way, that is
inexcusable.
I noted before that agressiveness is a virtue in Ultimate, but never
at teh cost of the other players on the field
kdoe
> I still don't see how people can judge someone elses bid. You guys all
> know that you all make stupid bids sometimes because you think you can
> get the disc, I don't wanna hear anyone out there say that they didn't
> bid for a disc they could have gotten in their mind, because they
> evaluated the situation while going full speed and decided that it
> would be too dangerous to go for it, because that would be bullshit.
>
If you train yourself to think that hurting someone because of a
reckless lay-out or play is worse than getting the D, it becomes
pretty automatic. I lay-out a lot and will/do hold up or jump out of
the way of someone if I can't get the D without hitting someone.
There is no reason for reckless lay-outs. We have told people not to
lay-out anymore or don't come back because they would lay-out into the
backs of people's knees. I think I can always get the disc but if I
have to go through a person its not worth it. I would much rather
hurt myself avoiding someone while laying out than hurting someone
like KRich got hurt. Especially since I was all ready to school his
ass this season. Get better dude.
dude
> I don't wanna hear anyone out there say that they didn't
> bid for a disc they could have gotten in their mind, because they
> evaluated the situation while going full speed and decided that it
> would be too dangerous to go for it, because that would be bullshit.
I did that last weekend. Except someone laid out running directly at
me. Instead of me bidding for the disc I called endangerment.
> What if instead of Beau jumping over the kid he accidently kneed him
> in the face, breaking his jaw. Would there be a thread on that?
I would hope so.
Have you read the rules? This isn't a rhetorical question
acdb...@aol.com
>
> > Notice how Nord makes a concerted effort to contort his body to avoid
> > any contact with his mark to get the D
>
> Thank you. Thank you thank you thank you thank you. Perfect post,
> Nord picture and all.
Bid in question aside, to be fair, we all strive to have the
athleticism and body control of a player like Alex Nord. However, the
overwhelming majority of players will not achieve this. That picture
is a spectacular example of body control when attempting to avoid
contact, but most players, college players in particular, cannot be
held to this standard. In a perfect world, all layout Ds would look
like this but most ultimate players are not Nord. Players obviously
must avoid contact as best they can, but attempting to hold them to
the standard of essentially the best picture of contact avoidance is
asking too much. Again, bid in question aside, it can take players
several poor bids over time to learn what discs they can and can not
get to. Some contact is assumed in the non-contact sport of ultimate
and if you step on to the field expecting to be untouched, take the
advice of Mr. Boardman and take up curling.
La Maldad
Thank god this mental midget's on the case.
DikEar
Nord, do we then lay out through that hapless guy to try and get the
D? Fuck no. Have the judgement not to make the bid.
Beau did not drive his knee into that guys head. Instead, showing
incredible control, he jumped over him and only someone's pride got
wounded. Thats body control, I've never seen Beau hurt anyone or make
try a stupid layout.
I am pretty big for a frisbee player and came into the sport after a
background as a football player. I started out running people over a
lot. I quickly learned this is unacceptable behavior in frisbee and
learned to pick and choose my layouts. I have not injured someone in
ultimate ever. Unfortunately last year I had a reckless fuck lay out
into me (little guy, no bigger than Will Chen) and destroy my ankle
and knee, ending my season for all intents and purposes.
Its bullshit and it sucks. No one does it intentionally, but those
that do it are still fucking dicks fucking with peoples lives. Some
never come back from blown out ankles, knees and worse. Its bullshit
and unjustifiable.
I am not attacking Wisconsin dude, he and everyone else that does\has
done this needs to learn to control themselves.
-dikear
hanspe...@gmail.com
...and the only thing manlier than ultimate? The "yeah? Well you're
dumb" rebuttal performed over the internet when you have unlimited
time to think of something better. Nice work.
Joseph.H...@gmail.com
> dumb" rebuttal performed over the internet when you have unlimited
> time to think of something better. Nice work.
Not really unlimited. Good zingers really lose their sauce after more
than a day. If you're not one of the next couple of posters, nobody
even remembers what you're talking about. And come on, mental midget
is a hilarious term.
-Storm-
PS: Take off the sunglasses Muffin, it's time.
Weston....@gmail.com
some level agree
not to run down a hospital huck from a dump position and layout full
speed
50 degrees into the air over 4-8 other people...
aside from what's already been stated, in my own humble opinion,
I think most club players who read this thread think it is Rediculous
and only college players, on the whole, who have been concerned or
provoked to the point of
anger
besides, you can romanticize the notion of a layout d all you want,
but if you put brian stout on michael stout, you can guess it's about
to hit the fan...
taco # 87
claremont braineaters
tha...@hotmail.com
for Wisconsin ultimate. I especially dislike UW-Platteville and UW-
Stout, theyre always laying out recklessly
dar
thread. and for the record, i think my opinion carries the most
weight here cause my wife is a wisconsin alum and never played
ultimate there.
becky, you ignorant slut. you've offered nothing to the
conversation. keep it that way.
i've had some experience with lumoxes bidding into me. ripped my
shoulder apart and i got to sit for 5 months after surgery. i'm
pretty sure that duder never had a shot at the disc before i got the D
but he sure thought he did. he was a new guy so i gave him the
benefit of the doubt. then later in that same season, i see him
laying out into the legs of other players and they're getting pissed
about it (rightfully so). i pull him aside on the field after taht
point is finished and tell him to stop bidding if you can't control
your body. it's not a matter of if you're going to hurt someone.
it's who and when. maybe everyone doesn't have the great insurance
plan i do so let's not test that.
he handled that well. i still don't feel comfortable around that
fella on the field cause i don't know if he got the message. shane
sounds like a reasonable duder. someone on his team, say mr. heijman,
could have that conversation with him. i imagine that conversation
would go something like this: "hey keep workin' hard. keep it under
control." i bet he'll get it. it's easier to hear that advice from a
teammate rather tahn an attack on rsd. the more common response
you'll get here is "fuck you. fuck them." jussayin'sall.
shane, shaner, shaneroo, the big shane...whatever you want to call
that fella....he'll lay out many more times down the road, but i'd
guess that he'll be a bit more under control now. it's been mentioned
and probably in one more thread than it needed to be. he's more than
aware of it being a concern among his peers and seein' how he's a
college kid at a reputable institution, he's likely smart enough to
digest it. k-rich will play frisbee again. you'll finish readin'
this thread and say man, that dar is a smart fucker.
you're correct in assuming so.
dar.
Daag Alemayehu
> bid for a disc they could have gotten in their mind, because they
> evaluated the situation while going full speed and decided that it
> would be too dangerous to go for it, because that would be bullshit.
Well, sorry Becky, but: "I didn't bid for a disc I could have gotten
in my mind because I evaluated the situation while going full speed
and decided that it would be too dangerous to go for it." I do it all
the time. Go ahead and call bullshit if you'd like. You play this
game for long enough, you start making decisions like that in every
single game. This isn't even a remarkable occurrence.
I'm not saying that every person who plays ultimate should have the
ability to make decisions like this from the moment he first picks up
a disc. It's definitely something you gain with experience. However,
people like you that make it sound like this is an unreasonable
standard to hold people up to.. well, your standards are too low.
pat.ps...@gmail.com
> Alright well since Shane has posted on here I guess I will too.
>
> Now some things im about to say may be coming from all the pain pills
> I am on since my collar bone has seperated from my sternum and my
> upper pectoral muscles have been torn from my collar bone also... No
> big deal though.. I can still type.
Wow that sounds incredibly painful. I want to take painkillers for
you. Good luck on your recovery.
Kebo
It's pretty easy...you see someone layout INTO another person,
injuring them. The rest sort of takes care of itself.
You guys all
> know that you all make stupid bids sometimes because you think you can
> get the disc,
There's a difference between jumping at a disc that's 14 feet in the
air, or laying out for a disc that's 10 feet in front of
you...and laying out into someone.
I don't wanna hear anyone out there say that they didn't
> bid for a disc they could have gotten in their mind, because they
> evaluated the situation while going full speed and decided that it
> would be too dangerous to go for it, because that would be bullshit.
If you can't tell that there is a person in your path while running
full speed, or your evaluation skills leave out the presence of
another individual in your path...then you could probably register a
number of different disabilities and get yourself a closer parking
spot, which will be helpful for when you injure someone...you're that
much closer so you can drive them to the hospital, and explain to them
why it is they don't get to play ultimate for a while.
> What if instead of Beau jumping over the kid he accidently kneed him
> in the face, breaking his jaw. Would there be a thread on that?
YES! And...he didn't. Not to mention the kid in the Beau video was
running in the opposite direction he was looking, following the disc,
kind of a different situation.
People
> go for the disc when they think they can get it, they don't stop and
> survey the situation while their adrenaline is pumping and they're
> going full speed.
Obviously they should. Again I'll reference "Contact" sports, where
even then...you don't get the excuse of "I was running full speed and
my adrenaline was pumping"
Smellsworth
> So I'm just gunna throw this out there, but I really dislike this
> team. This past weekend at College Centex, I watched as this team was
> not only one of the worse-spirited, but they are without a doubt the
> most dangerous and reckless team in college ultimate.
>
> They play with no regaurd to the well being of the other team, and
> this weekend I watched as Wisconsin players recklessly throw
> themselves around on Defence and in the process came seriously close
> to taking out several players.
>
> For those of you who know K-rich from U of North Texas (tall guy;
> prolly the next best receiver in the nation after Gibson), he was hurt
> this weekend at Centex by a player from Wisconsin. I stood on the
> sideline and watched as K-rich lays-out for a disc, and a Wisconsin
> defender (#19) comes and makes the worst bid I've ever seen. He
> doesn't even attempt to bid on the disc and in the process he LANDS on
> K-rich and injures him so severely that he is now out for the rest of
> the season.
>
> As far as I know, no apology has been made by anyone from Wisconsin
> following the game.
>
> Teams like this ruin the game in my opinion. They have seriously
> injured another player and hurt an entire team that looks to his
> leadership. Maybe this came off too strong, but I don't ever want to
> see something like this happen again.
Wisconsin is a sick team. I think their ability to keep control on
the field especially when it comes to foul calls and arguments, is a
large reason they are successful. I think some of their mental game
is confused with them being assholes, which I am sure some of them are
from time to time. I am sure a lot of these posts are based on
jealousy for the success they see.
Casey
> know that you all make stupid bids sometimes because you think you can
> get the disc, I don't wanna hear anyone out there say that they didn't
> bid for a disc they could have gotten in their mind, because they
> evaluated the situation while going full speed and decided that it
> would be too dangerous to go for it, because that would be bullshit.
> What if instead of Beau jumping over the kid he accidently kneed him
> in the face, breaking his jaw. Would there be a thread on that? People
> go for the disc when they think they can get it, they don't stop and
> survey the situation while their adrenaline is pumping and they're
> going full speed.
>
> And doesn't everybody in ultimate do steroids?? Come on it's the 21st
> century.
>
> Becky
74) 1106 Texas-B 5-1 SO TEX
76) 1101 Wisconsin-B 14-7 CN LS
104) 1006 Las Positas-B 6-1 NW BAY
125) 941 Colo State-B 6-3 SW COL
134) 887 Florida-B 14-7 AC SO
136) 879 Pittsburgh-B 13-4 ME WP
156) 817 Georgia-B 14-11 AC SO
168) 777 Stanford-B 15-11 NW BAY
187) 726 Mizzou State-B 9-4 SO OZ
197) 710 Washington-B 8-7 NW WBC
200) 701 Colorado-B 8-6 SW COL
202) 696 Virginia-B 11-4 AC BR
210) 665 California-B 18-22 NW BAY
213) 661 Oregon-B 8-6 NW OR
214) 657 UBC-B 6-5 NW WBC
216) 655 Arkansas-B 3-5 SO OZ
223) 627 Ohio State-B 8-8 GL EP
226) 623 Penn State-B 3-3 ME WP
230) 608 Emory-B 3-4 AC SO
233) 600 Texas State-B 4-6 SO TEX
240) 578 St Thomas 5-1 CN NW
http://www.stthomas.edu/clubs/ultimatefrisbee/purplereign/bios/bequette.html
Somehow, the inane prattling of the '06 Captain of St. Thomas doesn't
seem to hold much weight.
Perhaps you should focus a little more on helping your team catch all
those B teams and a little less on creating straw-man defenses for
dangerous play.
B-Rock
> Wisconsin is the most unspirited team I have ever seen in college
> ultimate. How long will the UPA let this team continue to "win at all
> costs" while ignoring almost half of the rules, especially the Spirtit
> of the Game?
Spirit of the Game isn't actually a rule. Does anyone know what
happens when a spirit foul is called??? Nothing, there is nothing in
the rules regaurding this. Has anyone ever called one??? Not that I
have seen. Spirit of the Game is an idea. I'm not saying that you
shouldn't follow it like the Golden Rule, but you can't hide behind
it. Plus I'm tired of people getting all up set because of coulda-
woulda-shouldas. You are either going to say something when it
happens and try to talk through it in a respectable manner (remember
it's not what you say sometimes, but how you say it) or it's not
really not that bad and you don't say anything. With instances like
this, leave it on the field. Play the game and move on.
christoph...@gmail.com
skied you at practice, and you came down saying, "Oh, my ankle..." or,
"Oh, my collarbone..." or "Oh, my shin-splints - they hurt so bad!"
yeah, I guess I don't remember those times either...
Nice response. Very K-rich like. I remember last year when we got
dogged by Wisc. on their website and I challenged them to a drinking
contest at Centex. Too bad we never got to reconcile our differences
and see who could drink more, Texans or Wisconsin students; I think we
might of won. It does seem Wisc gets a lot of grief when their
intensity is equated with 'bad spirit,' but fuck, they really do suck
sometimes to play against. Such is life. Who knows how to resolve
this - it just sucks for K-Rich and UNT.
Sorry to hear about the injury and hopefully you recover soon. I
finally figured out how to reply directly to a message so hopefully
you get this. Get healthy soon for the Gonzaga v. UNT game in
Colombus. Right, that'll happen.
-church
schmidtacular
He can't, he doesnt actually have eyes- just sockets, at least that's
what I heard...
neurodancer
>
I think you're wrong. Nice try though.
ND
BrookDaves
He actually did not wear glasses against UNT Saturday morning.
Maybe because the sun wasn't out yet or maybe because he knew
something was going down????
cougaru...@yahoo.com
I think Im gunna start coming up with more rants for Threads because
people really loved to comment on this one.
-doctor
Mike Gerics
> not only one of the worse-spirited, but they are without a doubt the
> most dangerous and reckless team in college ultimate.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----i'm confused......does the above make me like Wisc more.......or is it
supposed to have the opposite affect on me???
Max
> Spirit of the Game isn't actually a rule. Does anyone know what
> happens when a spirit foul is called??? Nothing, there is nothing in
> the rules regaurding this. Has anyone ever called one??? Not that I
> have seen. Spirit of the Game is an idea. I'm not saying that you
> shouldn't follow it like the Golden Rule, but you can't hide behind
> it. Plus I'm tired of people getting all up set because of coulda-
> woulda-shouldas. You are either going to say something when it
> happens and try to talk through it in a respectable manner (remember
> it's not what you say sometimes, but how you say it) or it's not
> really not that bad and you don't say anything. With instances like
> this, leave it on the field. Play the game and move on.
I have had a teammate of mine call a spirit foul on himself. He
yelled when somebody was about to catch the disc, the person dropped
it, and he immediately said spirit foul and gave the disc back to the
person. Also, Becky you are an idiot. I contantly encounter
situations where I could layout and get the disc but somebody is in
front of me. Every time I simply say to myself that it isn't worth
it. People have actually thanked me for not laying out into them.
jim....@gmail.com
> season ending injury that was the direct result of another player, and
> you will not be able to read about it on RSD archives. I am not going
> to try to do all of this over a public forum.
Did this season ending injury occur at Club Regionals in 2005?
hohe...@metnet.edu
team is a bunch of pussys. Seriously, If you have a problem with
someone or a team take it up with them and don't try and make the best
team in the country look bad just because your jealous that your team
isnt as good and one injury takes place. I feel bad as I know the
whole Hodag team does that this players year is over, Im sorry that
happened to you but it happens nevertheless. As we all know this is
not the first person this has happened too. There are injuries that
happen in this sport every day the game is played. Shane is my
brother, from what I have heard and scene from him in his day, he is
one of the best defenders in the country and I know for a fact MANY
people will agree with me on that. He didn't get to this premier
status by watching his man get the disc all the time. Shane along with
entire team have this mentality at all times, and this is why they are
so ridiculously hard to get scored on. I know for sure that everyone
in my central region wants to become what madison has developed into,
their style of play especially on defense is exactly what every team
below them wants to do, trust me on that. Once again no body wants to
hurt anyone but it will happen. This is my first year playing at UW-
Milwaukee and I have been told I am a very good, talented, and
motivated defender with a lot of potential to be as good as my brother
and all the other amazing defenders out there. I didn't get this way
by not being aggresive and laying out. From what I have learned from
my brother, every good defender I have scene, and my team mates a good
defender is made by having your man touch the disc the least amount of
times as possible without getting scored on, I know you would all
agree. Well guess what, if your not laying out aggressively and
having the balls and motivation to do so, being an amazing defender is
not possible. Ones hustle, aggressive style, sick bids, and motivation
to stop his man from getting the disc at all times is what seperates
him from every other average defender in the game today. So for all of
you to bash how my brother plays the game, pull up your skirt and go
play a non contact sport like curling because in ultimate it is gonna
happen, sorry to say. Keep up the good work hodags. See ya at
sectionals... yikes
colinm...@gmail.com
It's not about being jealous. It's not about any given team or any
given player (despite the subject line). It's about a given style of
play that is not acceptable. Dangerously aggressive or reckless play
is inexcusable and as twfold mentioned above (post 60), is not a
matter of good or bad intentions.
Some contact is inevitable. Some contact is entirely inexcusable and
both the rules and the players forbid it. Hustle, aggressiveness,
sick bids and motivation are all fine. But the line is drawn at
dangerousness and recklessness, neither of which are prerequisites to
being an amazing defender.
Note: my comments are general and do not address Shane or Wisconsin
specifically. But to address them specifically, it is neither
dangerousness nor recklessness that makes them great.
muffin
they are so freaking attractive. I'm trying to concentrate on
guarding my man, but I find myself being lulled to sleep by his
handsome features. Anyway, I hate to guard these guys and they are
such bitches after foul calls and always foul my shit constantly on
the mark. I think deep down I really hate them because they beat me
constantly and then scream Hooo-Dags too. That kid Shane definitely
has to be on steroids with that much aggression and I seriously hate
that fucker with the sunglasses, he is a huge dick. Overall, those
hodags are waay too intense to play.
I almost forgot, Wisconsin's highlight videos suck too.
ha take that
muffin #13
Central Florida
BHD
> First, Id like to say that anyone who is on here to bash a player or a
...........................................................................................So
for all of
> you to bash how my brother plays the game, pull up your skirt and go
> play a non contact sport like curling because in ultimate it is gonna
> happen, sorry to say. "
kinda hypocritical perhaps?
MC
indvidual "calling out" to a broader and more general discussion of
the fine line between agressive and reckless play.
Daag Alemayehu
Does your apartment smell of rich mahogany too?
> him from every other average defender in the game today. So for all of
> you to bash how my brother plays the game, pull up your skirt and go
> play a non contact sport like curling because in ultimate it is gonna
I think ultimate is a non-contact sport. Yep, pretty sure.
JWol...@gmail.com
I'm glad I could clear this whole thread up. Have a nice day.
Kohn
reckless about that.
Kebo
I'm a fan of anyone that can type that much, and never once find the
Enter key.
pizzaslot
> I don't know what happened exactly, but from the sounds of it lots of
> people in this thread seem to think that because Shane didn't Try (or
> intend) to cause harm, what he did was okay.
>
> If He (or anybody) makes Reckless bids, that is NEVER OK.
>
> Recklessness has no place in Ultimate.
>
> Recklessness as defined in the Model Penal Code: Consciously
> disregarding a substantial and unjustifiable risk.
>
> If anybody knows that they way they play creates a substantial risk of
> injuring another player, yet continues to play that way, that is
> inexcusable.
>
> I noted before that agressiveness is a virtue in Ultimate, but never
> at teh cost of the other players on the field
So, what about reckless throws. Everyone at some point or another has
thrown one. We all see people get hurt in the "game of 500-like
scrum". Bad throws are equally reckless.
If you don't concede a turnover on a hospital throw, then you're a
hypocrite.
Kevin
If he hadn't shaved off his manly chest hair then the Man Gods would
not have been angry and punished him for his transgression.
-No Chest Hair and Jealous
colinm...@gmail.com
nothing dangerous about the throw. It just creates a situation, like
any other, in which players can choose to act dangerously. As for
conceding turnovers on hospital passes, you just don't have any basis
for making that claim.
The hypocrites are the players who foul people and claim "you can't
call a foul, it was a hospital pass!" but then try to obtain
protections from the rules in other instances.
MC
>
> I'm glad I could clear this whole thread up. Have a nice day.
i miss you too, jerrod.
On Apr 2, 11:13 am, "Kohn" <nwk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> nah. he just has that child-molester 'stache going on. Nothing
> reckless about that
it's gone. "the man" made me shave. which sucks because it was the
source of all my powers.
ultim...@yahoo.com
My google ads are telling me to eliminate pubic hair thanks to these
posts.
muffin
from ultimate for at least at year. Falling down at full speed is so
extremely disrespectful for your opponent that we (rsd haters) should
also chastise, verbally assualt and badger #19 until he publicly
apologizes.
http://photos.jasonmechler.com/p/2007centex_open_pool_b/jmp_20070324_269549
muffin #13
UNT
Casey
>
> muffin #13
> UNT
Yeah, I mean some players actually try to avoid contact and not use
their opponents as a landing pad.
And I'm sure most of the guys on your team are actually pretty cool.
Too bad they have a jackass as their self-appointed pr guy.
Oh well, you're just straw anyhow.
Maybe someday you won't be, but I don't think I'll hold my breath.
ott
this is so incredibly rediculous. i enjoyed the response to muffins
post that i had to be apart of it. i really don't have anything to
say, so i feel like i'm fitting into the general gist of this thread.
i think i might have a ham sandwhich for lunch. drink some whiskey
but i'm not going to tell you about what i'm doing tonight cause
someone reading this might actually care about that.
-ott
sparks is for sucks.
Froman
should play their limit and respect the athleticism of others. If the
disc is not within reach and you must go through someone then
recpectfully play the disc. Besides, he will always be known for
needlessly injuring someone. Even if they become champions this season
people will always remember that guy as the needless injury guy.
Barbu
>
> muffin #13
> UNT
another picture of a late bid by a Wisconsin player:
http://www.pbase.com/jmlane/image/76995343
pizzaslot
Seriously, let's try to be a little more objective and accurate.
Clearly that's a Hobag trying to get some Mamabird man-love.
Daag Alemayehu
Late bid? Or vigilante justice for bad facial hair?
ut.b...@gmail.com
not pressing enter every now and then is the typing equivalent of
laying out into someone else's knees.
oh....must be a family trait.
Bueno
> On Mar 29, 1:34 am, "ThatGuy" <shaneh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I am, however, going to tell you that any incident that has been
> > brought up thus far (Sherwood body slam or K-rich) was not the result
> > of malicious intent, rather the aggressive nature of the game. I will
> > also tell you that I do play aggressively. I am not out to hurt
> > anyone, rather to be the best player I can be. Also, my play will not
> > change, and I will continue to be as, if not more, aggressive in the
> > future. I think it is unfortunate when the image of one person, and or
> > a team can be tarnished by one individual's opinion. Therefore I
> > invite you to take any concerns up with me personally and save them
> > from RSD. Thanks,
> > Shane Hohenstein
> > Wisconsin Ultimate
>
> > Hohenst...@wisc.edu
>
> Shane (and all the onlookers who have clicked into this car wreck of a
> thread),
>
> While I applaud your effort and intensity, your mentality is
> indicative of the dangerous schism that is forming at the elite
> competitive level of both college and club ultimate. Some players
> play to avoid injuring another player, others play to get the disc
> without regard for creating situations where other players can (and
> ultimately will) be injured.
>
> I accept that you did not mean for Kev to suffer a season-ending
> injury. But you should not seek to absolve yourself from your part in
> causing this to happen.
>
> I believe you are correct when you say that you did not
> _intentionally_ injure him.
>
> You are incorrect when you assume that you are not at fault for his
> injuries, or that because you choose to define ultimate as an
> "aggressive game" you are no longer responsible for the outcomes of
> your overly-aggressive play. You are in control of your own body.
> You are in control of your decisions. You are a very aggressive
> defender. A byproduct of this aggressive play is the opportunity for
> more blocks. Another byproduct is the opportunity for more injuries.
>
> I am no stranger to physical and aggressive play -- at times I've worn
> a defender like a cape up and down the field -- and thus far I have
> escaped serious injury. But the logic is simple and inescapable, the
> more my opponent creates situations where injuries are more likely to
> occur the more likely I am to be injured.
>
> If your mentality becomes the norm, then we will play a sport where no
> player seeks to avoid creating situations where his opponents can
> suffer serious injuries. You will not be able to make a cut without
> worrying about how to avoid the imminent collision that will come as
> your defender crashes into you. You will not be able to jump for a
> disc and land on your feet because your opponent won't see fit to
> worry about letting you land rightside up.
>
> You're a good hard-nosed defender. I respect that. But you are a bit
> too short-sighted when it comes to the ramifications of your actions.
>
> Casey
> UNT coach
Casey,
Just wanted say how impressed I was with your comments/insights/
philosophies. It was refreshing for me to read at this point in the
thread. It also lends for a great learning tool when it comes
articulating my thoughts and wishes when I coach. I coach at Hopkins
High school, as well as a Minnesota youth all-star team in the UPA
Club Championships. I wanted to thank you for taking the time to
write such a great example of what it means to respect the game,
believe in it, and impress upon the younger players that no one person
or team is above the game. This has nothing to do with Shane (it
goes without saying that he's a great kid), and has more to do with
the overall concept. Since I have never met you - If you truly live
by your words and lead by this written example, I would love to have
the chance to coach with or against you in the future. :) Bottom
line - WELL SAID BROTHER! Sincerely, Wayne "Bueno" Roemhildt