Central Regionals--TULSA????
ultimate7
WHY?
Are they trying to pick the least convenient location possible? Tulsa
is good for what 2 Open teams and maybe 1 or 2 coed teams, and
everyone else has to fly? Why not just have Regionals in San Diego
so it could at least be somewhere nice.
I would love the Milwaukee contingent to put in a bid to host, they do
a great job at very nice fields.
Byron Hicks
"ultimate7" <ulti...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182629965.2...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
muffin
throw
Oklahoma is twice as old as the Frisbee and Karl Doege is now
President.
These fields are perfect.
Anybody got any Flying Saucer bar stories?
ard...@gmail.com
fields as well, but it is better than the Naperville alternative
unless you have those custom cement cleats.
Biyatch
ultimate7
Gravy
was the RC thinking?
Crowd says BOOOO!
RJD
tournament around and make different teams travel. Oh, and probably
less chance of being 35 and sleety or something as is a strong
possiblity in MN/WI. Having had to make the difficult decision
before, it isn't as easy as you might think, especially trying to find
space for 3 or 4 divisions. You don't even know who else put in a
bid. The RCs did think about it, and did weigh the options. RCs,
perhaps a succint listing of the benefits/reasons for the Tulsa
decision may calm down the crowd. That being said, I think it is
finalized, thanks for serving as RCs.
dustin...@gmail.com
True - nobody knows who else submitted a bid. It would be interesting
to see what benefits outweigh forcing about 30 additional teams to fly
rather than drive (or at least drive more than 8 hours) and spending
an additional $200 per person for flights+rental car etc... That adds
up to about $100,000 more in total cost for the players.
Some alternatives? If field space is an issue - create 2 separate
tournaments to handle the different divisions. Weather is something
teams need to deal with - though saying that 35 degree weather + Sleet
is a strong possibility is definitely an exaggeration on your part.
Most regionals in MI/WI have been nice weather.
Kevin
Kevin
degnan...@gmail.com
Maybe the RC was thinking "man, I don't EVER remember Regionals in
Tulsa, but these guys come to Regionals every year no matter where it
is. I hear they got some sweet fields so let's give it a go."
Naperville blows, Milwaukee is good, but they often get Regionals, and
Versailles... eh.
Becky
Byron Hicks
You probably hate spending money about the same way people from Oklahoma
hate spending it in Wisconsin or Ohio.
"Becky" <dbbeq...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182972243.3...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
RJD
College Regionals in MN have impressed upon me the Curse of the North-
man, I hate cold plastic.
I believe the first weekend in October, the 6th-7th...this gives
sectionals 2 options, if the first weekend is thrown out to allow for
CHC.
JD
> Oklahoma is in no way the South.
>
--check a map dude. I think Oklahoma touches Texas, that's south, in
a lot of ways. Why is Oklahoma in the Central Region? anybody know?
Byron Hicks
Oklahoma is not a southern state.
"JD" <jdsmi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182992472.8...@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
yes correct
aren't in the south or whatever... But I think the only real solution
is to just kick Oklahoma out of North American so they can't compete
in the series... Everyone knows the Sooners aren't good at football
anyway... GO HORNS!!!!!
KC
Kick us out of North American indeed. I don't care much about sooner
football, but I think the beer laws here warrant seceding from North
American.
ultim...@yahoo.com
1. Versailles and Naperville were perhaps the other two to put in
bids. Delafield perhaps did not.
2. For people coming from Minneapolis (mapquest says), Tulsa (10
hours, 30 minutes) is a slightly shorter drive than Versailles (11
hours, 28 minutes). For people coming from Chicago, Tulsa (10 hours,
35 minutes) is a considerably longer drive than Versailles (4 hours,
50 minutes). For people coming from Tulsa, Tulsa wins out big.
Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio can't be happy about Tulsa vs any other
options. The Canadians don't count, but everything sucks for them,
although Naperville sucks less than the others. Actually, Naperville
pretty much only sucks for people from, well, Tulsa. Kansas and Iowa
probably prefer Tulsa to Versailles, but have it fairly easy to
Naperville too.
3. The fields in Versailles are not great, especially the back fields
are fairly hilly, and without wet weather will be hard. Naperville
can also be hard.
4. Naperville, Delafield, and MN have had regionals in recent
history. Is that an argument for or against having it in one of
those places again soon.
5. Where is all of the region's top talent coming from? Last year,
mixed division sent teams to the club championships from Chicago,
Minneapolis, and Northfield (MN), and the top 14 teams in the region
were from Iowa, Wisconsin, Missouri, Minnesota, Illinois, and
Indiana. Women's sent teams from Chicago & MI/IN/OH, and the other
teams were from Minnesota, Madison, Illinois, and Michigan, and Ohio.
Open sent teams from Minneapolis, Delton (MI), and Chicago, and the
other top teams were from Madison, Ohio, Canada, Illinois, and
Michigan. Masters sent teams from Minneapolis and OH/IN, and the
other teams were from Chicago, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Michigan.
6. The only team from Tulsa that played at central regionals last
year was Rawhide, finishing tied for 11th in the open division? There
was also the 13th place finishing team from LouEvil that is probably
close to Oklahoma. Maybe a bottom place team in another division is
within spittin distance of OK too?
7. RC's--put in so much work they deserve so much thanks, still should
question and start rumors about their decisions though or else, well,
why RSD?
Suggested rumor to become the new plan: Next year Delafield or Madison
should put in a bid for the mixed/masters/women's divisions, and let
open play wherever their 2007 11th place finisher is from. Who
knows? Maybe that team will then finish 1st in 2008 since they didn't
have to drive as far.
jeff...@gmail.com
that. A number of factors come into play, so there's never really a
"right" answer. However, there's plenty of opinions ... mine
included.
Would anyone in the Central region have a major objection to a
centrally-located Regionals EVERY year (assuming of course that at
least one acceptable bid came from an applicable city)?
I'm from Columbus. Versailles is close. Detroit isn't too far.
Heck, Columbus is closer than both of those. But I would personally
be willing to travel 5-8 hours EVERY year to avoid the trips to the NW
and SW corners of the region. Naperville, Milwaukee, Madison, and I'm
sure some others would be a reasonable trip for everyone ... except
maybe the Canadians, but it's already been established in previous
posts that they don't count.
No one is at any sort of a disadvantage this way. You might be able
to argue that the already centrally-located teams would have the
advantage of never having to travel, but that doesn't bother me.
Columbus teams will have to travel as far as anyone else in this
system, and I've already said that I'd be OK with that. Anyone else?
So I don't know if the final decision's been made yet for this year.
If so, then I have a hunch that all of the top teams will still make
the trip. But as soon as possible, I'd recommend less geographical
rotation and stress as many site options as possible in the center of
the region.
Starting in 2009 of course ... cause if Tulsa gets it this year then
it's gotta be in Versailles next year!!
-Jeff
tki...@gmail.com
tulsa backwards = aslut. Coincidence?
Akira
crew put on an outstanding event, and knowing nothing, I'm going to
pretend not to hear Gravy and remain optimistic that the fields and
facilities will be great. The fields are at least on the same side of
the city as the airport (and everyone else in the region), about 10
miles to the NE.
And I appreciate too how much work the RCs individually and
collectively do for us all.
That said, outside of the Dakotas (club series anyone?) or Canada, I'm
not sure there's any other sites that could generate a greater total
distance traveled across all participants. The air route into Tulsa
also blows *big time* despite the presence of Southwest (yes, we're
usually spoiled here in Chicago, but is it better from anywhere
else?). $280. And that's _now_ months in advance, base rate. $366 from
Minneapolis with a stop each way. $315 from DTW. Etc.
I'm pretty sure there was a bid from Chicago for the Naperville site.
It came late, but I know it came.
I'm agitating for us to develop a standing policy that someone in the
community will bid the Naperville site __every year__. For that
matter, if the Wisco interest isn't there, we don't have the local
knowledge, but perhaps we could figure out to bid the Milwaukee site
too.
Chicago to San Diego that weekend (Oct. 6-7) $279. Gary you might be
on to something...
-akira
me
an FYI, many UPA people (employees and volunteers like RCs) tend to
not post on RSD a lot, at least in an "official" capacity. It's
mostly because people want to be able to clearly separate their
personal opinions and what they do and say as UPA people, and because
if someone has a question they really do want answered by the UPA,
that person may contact the UPA directly. Also, at least for me, it's
nice to take a week off of thinking about RC stuff after you've just
gotten done with something big, like selecting a site, before dealing
with the next steps. So, we haven't been hiding =)
Central regionals is in Tulsa on October 6-7.
The Tulsa bid was good, everything we look for in a bid, like fields
in one location, plans for food and water, places for people to stay,
reasonable cost, etc etc. If we have several bids, and some have
these and others don't, those that do will stay in the running (and
those that don't, won't) regardless of location. A quality event is
first priority.
Location does play a big factor. The Central region is big - no matter
where it is, some teams are going to have big trips to make.
Obviously, which states are in the region isn't up to the RCs (UPA
Board would be my first guess at where comments about that should go).
All teams in the region are equally important. The guidelines for RCs
suggest that if there are multiple options for regionals, it should be
moved around to even out travel time and expense across the years. So,
we use these guidelines in our decisions.
Thus, if you think (and you have every right to think this and I can
see the argument) that regionals should always been in some kind of
central location, that would need to be a change of focus at the top
of the UPA - which, if that happened, would get handed down to the
RCs. So if you are serious about changing the way RCs are advised to
make these decisions, approach the UPA seriously about it (or run for
the Board, or whatever).
It's really a question of how to get the greatest good for the
greatest number, and I would say that a central location vs. moving it
around are two different approaches to that same goal.
One problem is that while there are some teams that will make the trip
no matter the location, there are also some teams that won't play
regionals unless its close by (or can't - I think every ultimate
player is sympathetic to the cost of this sport!), and there are teams
like that in every part of the region. Should teams that will only
play close to home in Tulsa, Winnipeg, eastern parts of Ohio never
have an opportunity to play regionals because they don't have the good
fortune of being from Chicago and Madison? Or don't have the good
fortune of regional boundaries being drawn so Lexington is in the
middle of the region?
I'm tossing out some of the questions that RCs think about and discuss
when making decisions. For us, it seemed fair that Tulsa should host.
West Plains teams have been making long trips for years (and people in
Northwest Plains, like me, have gotten spoiled by not having to miss
work or buy a plane ticket). There are other areas that consistently
make long trips too, and if those areas submit good bids, they have a
good chance of hosting.
Another factor: part of the UPAs mission is to promote and grow
ultimate. I voiced my opinion to the other RCs that moving regionals
around works to those goals - a new high school team isn't going to
travel far and spend money to get smoked at club regionals, but they
may play if its close to home and that can be a great experience.
College players not playing at regionals (team not having enough
people at that point, not qualifying, whatever reason) can have the
opportunity to watch great players and teams and learn from them and
be inspired by them, and random passers by could get interested in the
sport - these are opportunities I think should be available to many
locations.
I haven't gone into every little detail of the decision, but I think
it is fair for the people affected to know what went into the
decision. We think regionals is a great opportunity for the Tulsa
ultimate community, and we think they will host a great event. As
every year, we hope few teams will be deterred by the travel.
Feel free to comment and continue to discuss, I'm sure I haven't won
the argument and I know many will still disagree. But don't expect to
hear anymore from me =) Just know that your RCs are thinking about
you, all of you from everywhere, and what you want and trying to
anticipate and address the concerns of everyone. We care about
ultimate and the people who play, and even the people who don't
play... yet.
Thanks for reading! Hope to see everyone at regionals!
Liz
Womens RC
ultimate7
a location that is far from everyone (1 out of last years 40+ regional
participants was from Oklahoma). I could understand having Regionals
in Clevland (the far eastern part of the region) because there are 10
or so teams coming from Ohio, plus it's not far from Detroit, but
Tulsa is literally the worst location possible for 35+ (85-90%) of the
attending teams. It really doesn't make any sense unless there are no
other bids for regionals.
hales
oh, i guess northern manitoba was booked.
Nick Reeck
travel pretty damn far to get there...although I remember everything
about the tourney going pretty smoothly once we got there. It ended
up being not so bad.
That being said, at least we could fly into Minneapolis / St. Paul. I
think a factor that got way, WAY underweighted by the RC's is how
difficult or expensive flying into a small airport will be for the
vast majority of teams. A good 80% of teams are going to have to fly
to get to Tulsa (as clearly pointed out by Akira and others), and it
seems to me nothing said in defense of the selection outweigh the fact
that almost every single team in the region that goes is going to be
put through significant and unnecessary time and expense. While
moving the venue around is something to be desired, the cost to the
many is not even close to being offset by the gain by the very, very,
VERY few Oklahoma or Kansas teams that benefit. A short list of the
many locations that could spread it around but would suck a lot less
(in addition to Chicago, Versailles, Madison / Milwaukee, or even
Minneapolis):
Kansas City
Saint Louis
Indianapolis
Columbus
Cleveland
and Winnipeg would probably be a tossup for being just as bad as
Tulsa. I know that RC's are constrained by who submits a bid - but I
think that means they should evaluate and pick a decent spot for at
least many of the teams, while considering that moving the location
around is a worthy goal. Distant outliers, while they do technically
accomplish this goal, should be too inconvenient to even consider. If
you're pretty sure that almost everyone and their mom is going to be
pissed about the location...maybe that location should be removed from
consideration. If you're seriously inconveniencing 30% of teams,
fine, that comes with the territory, but if you're inconveniencing 90%
of the teams, you know there is going to be an uproar, and justifiably
so.
So maybe one or two local teams will show up, but now how many college
or smaller / less apt to travel teams from Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio,
Illinois, or Indiana are not going to make the trek? I think the goal
to move Regionals around is a good one, but sheesh, keep it within
reason.
-Reeck
drew...@yahoo.com
Joe's Brother
recognition you've received.
I'm just not looking forward to playing in that ugly 11/3 tournament
format at Regionals. Sorry for making the assumption that 11 teams
will attend, but that's just optimistic me hoping that more than 7
will show up.
Is risking a low number of attending teams consistent with the goal of
promoting growth?
- Joe's Brother
On Jun 28, 4:05 pm, me <emcav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
honorary klingon
never hosted regionals. Maybe the reason North Dakota sends zero
teams to regionals on a yearly basis is because the event is never
held there. Zero is just one fewer than one (Oklahoma). Let's go to
North Dakota next year.
Gravy
barn in the midwest part of a southern town in that state. So if the
RC could please choose SD to host regionals next year at least .3% of
the region would be estatic, elated, not flacid. And I'm sure that
the fields we will play on could double as a landing strip for
everyone flying in.
timmy930
Dear whiners of the central region,
Next year, put in a bid on time.
Have fun in Oklahoma.
Love, Tim
> > North Dakota next year.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
colinm...@gmail.com
Tulsa decision? Can we have a vote? Player input is by no means
required, but if the Series Coordinators are interested in checking to
see if nearly all of the players in the Region disagree with their
decision (even the reasonable Tulsa players may side against this
outrageousness), a brief survey could take care of it.
The real question is what do we have to do to get the site changed?
Is it too late to accept the Naperville bid? How about a $10,000
penalty for the lateness of the bid. Distribute it to the players
through a hugely inflated tournament fee and we'll still be coming out
ahead. Give the $10,000 to the two teams that have to travel farthest
to Naperville to compensate for their inconvenience. And let's never
make this mistake again.
I recognize that being a Series Coordinator can be a thankless job.
But I assure the Coordinators that they will receive lots of thank-
yous if they change the location to Naperville this year, including a
gigantic thank you card from me. Send an address out to captains as
to where to direct the gift baskets and other demonstrations of teams'
appreciation and I am confident you will get wonderful things.
dustin...@gmail.com
want(ed) to play at regionals. With that being said:
- Can someone (like say, a Regional Coordinator) communicate why the
location was chosen? It would be wonderful to understand how they
weighed team's cost among other factors.
- It's interesting that everyone acts like their hands were tied. But
before the decision gets made - wouldn't it make sense to communicate
that Tulsa is the only place that put in a bid? Or communicate that
the bid is down to 2 places? Why make it all so secret until it is
final? The RC may have meant well and I'm sure works hard - but this
just seems like gross incompetence. How about some oversight from the
UPA?
- Can someone tell us why all regionals (Open/Women/Coed/Masters) must
be played at the same site.
- Can someone tell us why / how accomodating all the numerous teams
from Oklahoma benefits the region?
- If all states in the region are equally important, then how do you
justify picking a site that screws the majority of states?
- By evening out expenses, do you mean raising the crap out of them
for everyone rather than 2 teams? I'll bet that most teams would chip
in to help any Oklahoma team get to regionals if that's what it takes
to move it.
Someone who's actually planning on going should organize some sort of
drive to get it moved - usually a lot of phone calls, letters, emails
can make a bigger difference than a few people bitching on rsd.
Ca$h
$
doctor...@yahoo.com
Co-ed sectionals is in Nome.
Have fun.
Akira
"We are accepting bids for Sectionals and Regionals 2007. We need them
ASAP."
What the h*ll does that mean? There's no deadline. I said 'late', by
which I meant it felt 'late in the game'. We submitted a proposal as
soon as it was possible for us. By the above, we qualify just as well
as any other.
Or just a license to be arbitrary and talk about nothing on r.s.d.
:)
Akira
The date and location for this event hasn't been posted on the UPA
website. I think that until that happens, nothing is final. Not that I
believe or know if anything will change. But anyone who is acting on
the buzz or this thread to make arrangements (like two tickets I have
on hold) is front-running the news, and methinks you takes your
chances...
So we'll see what happens. Good luck everyone.
On Jun 29, 8:34 pm, colinmcint...@gmail.com wrote:
> What were the other bids put in that were so awful as to warrant theTulsadecision? Can we have a vote? Player input is by no means
> required, but if the Series Coordinators are interested in checking to
> see if nearly all of the players in the Region disagree with their
> decision (even the reasonableTulsaplayers may side against this
Jon Bauman
RC about it (I did). This is the only way things will change:
http://upa.org/upa/contacts/contacts.shtml
I, for one, would be in favor of holding the mixed regional separately
if it meant it could be somewhere that was more central than Tulsa. I
consider the maximum reasonable drive for a tournament to be about 8
hours. (That is, more than that, and you probably need to fly or take
time off for travel.) Of last year's central mixed teams, only 1 was
within 8 hours drive of Tulsa, and all are with 8 hours (3.8 on
average) of Naperville.
rb
EdL...@cinci.rr.com
>
> I, for one, would be in favor of holding the mixed regional separately
> if it meant it could be somewhere that was more central than Tulsa. I
> consider the maximum reasonable drive for a tournament to be about 8
> hours. (That is, more than that, and you probably need to fly or take
> time off for travel.) Of last year's central mixed teams, only 1 was
> within 8 hours drive of Tulsa, and all are with 8 hours (3.8 on
> average) of Naperville.
>
> rb
Perhaps it could be a Master's / Mixed regional as there were no teams
West of St Louis last year that I can remember.
We are already calling our Coordinator to voice our concerns.
I imagine the Masters chances of even getting two seeds may be
severely threatened due to number of teams participating at regionals.
For those of us that play with a little less commitment, the added
cost and time is a signifigant deterent.
ultimate7
don't think that there were any women's teams at regionals last year
that were west of
Minneapolis, and none from the entire West Plains Section.
mden...@gmail.com
to wear sweatpants and an '85 bears knit hat w/fuzzy ball attachment
to regionals this year...
...but you'll just have to deal.
mrbk...@gmail.com
we ALWAYS find something to bitch about.
Obviously everyone that is bitching about tulsa has probably never
played on the fields or attended a Summer Solstice there, because if
they had they would gladly spend 300-500 dollars on a plane ticket to
come play at these very nice fields that tulsa has... not to mention
that the people that own the fields love Ultimate players and love us
having tourneys out there. There's a pond to go swimming in and a 2
story club house to party at... there's camping right next to the
fields if you don't want a hotel, and there's also showers at the
fields so you don't have to go anywhere to do anything... not to
mention that the fields are just down the road from the biggest casino
in Tulsa... so you can win that money back that you just spent on a
plane ticket. Oh also, I wasn't going to mention this (because it's
the best kept secret of Tulsa Ultimate / Summer Solstice but since
everyone's bitching i figured i'd give you all a little knowledge of
mine) there is a little Country cookin' buffet right down the street
too called Pauline's and it's Tony the Tiger GRRRRRRRREAT. Oh yea and
you can buy beer on sundays in oklahoma... incase your team sucks and
are done early. Sorry, I'm not even in this region (as of now) but I
really love tulsa and would love to have South regionals there if you
all don't want it!!
Casey Boy
Arkansas #24
ultimate7
going for Regionals, so I don't care about any of that crap. I just
want somewhere that I can drive 6 hours or less to go to Regionals.
And 6 hours or less covers 99+% of the ultimate being played in my
Region.
And to Denardis, I do not have a Bears hat, I've been wearing the same
hat for the past 10+ years and it is green and white.
el.ultim...@gmail.com
you were easier to entertain than that. After Poultry Days, I was
convinced that all it took was some crutches and someone else's fist.
On Jul 10, 12:51 pm, mrbkc....@gmail.com wrote:
RJD
hope the Oklahoma ladies are seeing this thread and will be included
as one of those West Plains teams. Tulsa Ultimate players put on a
good tournament.
Jack
For the record, last year's West Plains sectional champions could not
attend regionals because Naperville was too far away for us to drive
(ten hours? That's unheard of, according to this thread); only 6
people could make the trip, and so we had to forfeit our bid. Tulsa,
on the other hand, is a comfortable distance for us and I look forward
to participating in my first-ever club regionals.
J
> attend regionals because Naperville was too far away for us to drive
> (ten hours? That's unheard of, according to this thread); only 6
> people could make the trip, and so we had to forfeit our bid. Tulsa,
> on the other hand, is a comfortable distance for us and I look forward
> to participating in my first-ever club regionals.
Just for the record, you would not make the trip last year and
apparently have never made the trip to club regionals. But you are
excited that other teams can NOT make the trip this year. Might be a
hard one to sell! "I want you guys to shear with me but don't touch
my toys... That is it, I am taking my flying disc and going home!"
Have fun at your first-ever club regionals, with all 7 of the other
teams!!!
J-Rock
Keith L
will twist what I say also.
I played for Tulsa when I was in college at OSU and hated that we were
considered part of the Central region. Why? Because we had to make
trips like Cooler Classic, CHC, and Regionals in a less than 2 month
span to play our regional competition. We drove every time and you
never saw threads from the Kansas, Missouri, and Oklahoma teams
complaining about these drive times. Tulsa has put a bid in EVERY year
for regionals, instead of addressing our poor location in respect to
the rest of the region, they said just deal with it. Now maybe would
be a good time to consider moving OK to the South Region in Open, to
late for 2007... maybe 2008... but I trust you won't care where they
play once regionals is moved back north in 08
Have you ever been to Oklahoma for a tournament... because I would bet
they have been to your tournament in the Central Region. It is not
like we are establishing Tulsa as the regional location from here on
out, and Dingwop is the only team North of Iowa that has made a trip
to Tulsa since Chicago Chronic (sp?) back in 2002. And these 3 states
(KS/MO/OK) have supported your northern tournaments year in and year
out. You don't have to fly... it is not like they are hosting
regionals in Florida and asking you to drive from Texas... it is only
a 12 hour drive. I know, I know ONLY!!! well we do it every year...
usually 3 times.
Last, you can question the talent of the Oklahoma teams (I don't play
for one so bash away right?) but 11th is a crude way of looking at how
good of a team they are. They are always under-seeded (opinion, yes)
at regionals and usually play BAT/Machine/Madison/or Subzero in a
first round game... good luck after your 3rd 12 hour trip... then they
win a game in the consolation bracket, then lose to say Jawbone/Madcow/
or someone else in the 5-8 range. Then skip out of their Sunday game
for their 3rd 12 hour trip home. This is a typical season for an
oklahoma player.
Just be happy the other regional tournament are still close for you,
Cooler and CHC... and you can get the Oklahoma, Kansas, and Missouri
teams more crap when they don't attend them. Until then remember
Oklahoma is BYOB because 3.2 sucks!
-Keith
Dallas Ultimate/Ozark CSC
ultim...@yahoo.com
"We drove every time and you never saw threads from the Kansas,
Missouri, and Oklahoma teams complaining about these drive times."
Kansas and Missouri: 2 states that could have better locations for
regionals than Oklahoma, and still make OK happy. From St. Louis to
Chicago is 4.5 hours. From Tulsa to Chicago is 10.5 hours. From
Kansas City to Chicago is 8 hours 11 minutes. Surely it makes sense
to throw a bone to the Southern part of the region occasionally, since
regionals currently moves around, but it makes absolutely no sense to
throw the bone so far south. Hold regionals in St. Louis and I'd
guess the bitching about location would go way down (instead of the
entire region vs. Tulsa, you'd have the entire region vs. Michigan, or
something like that). If we set a precedent of holding regionals at
the geographic endpoints instead of near the middle... then your
yearly 10 hour drives are gonna turn into 14 (cleveland), 14.5
(Detroit), or 16 (Winnipeg) when some other endpoint bitches and puts
together a "good" bid. Then the OK team will have to forfeit a game
earlier and end up placing 12th instead of 11th.
"well we do it every year...usually 3 times."
Y'all have to drive up north for regional competition because it is A)
where the geographical center of the region is, and B) where the
talent is.
"Last, you can question the talent of the Oklahoma teams (I don't play
for one so bash away right?) but 11th is a crude way of looking at how
good of a team they are. They are always under-seeded (opinion, yes)
at regionals and usually play BAT/Machine/Madison/or Subzero in a
first round game... good luck after your 3rd 12 hour trip... then they
win a game in the consolation bracket, then lose to say Jawbone/
Madcow/ or someone else in the 5-8 range. Then skip out of their
Sunday game for their 3rd 12 hour trip home. This is a typical season
for an oklahoma player."
OK... so they always lose to a team in the 5-8 range... so that would
put them, at best, at 9th place, and generally in the 9-12 range,
yes? So... 11th.
Lastly, many of us that are complaining about regionals in OK are in
the mixed, women's, and master's divisions... the divisions that
didn't even see a team from OK at the tournament last year... the
divisions that often struggle every year to get to 16 teams for the
tournament, and almost certainly will struggle to get the teams to
drive out to the ends of the regions... it seems really, really stupid
to host a tournament that is 10-12 hours away from most every single
team competing, when there could be a location that is 0-6 hours away
from most every team.
Head Beagle
People from OK would be ECSTATIC to have regionals in KC or St. Louis.
6 hours instead of 12?? Sounds great for OK people. They would
probably agree for the most part, it would be GREAT if regionals was
in KC or St. Louis. Of course, they aren't exactly going to put in a
bid FOR one of those two locations, so stop complaining because Tulsa
did something about their situation and put in a bid for themselves.
You want to organize regionals in St. Louis or KC?? Go for it, no one
is stopping you.
Quote:
"Y'all have to drive up north for regional competition because it is
A)
where the geographical center of the region is, and B) where the
talent is. "
That isn't the point. I don't disagree. It sucks for OK, OK would
probably rather be in the South, but that isn't the point. Point is,
OK has been doing this a long time and not complained. You probably
had never considered the amount of time Tulsa puts into traveling to
all these tournaments until now, when everyone else in the region
started complaining about making the trip once and all us non-
Oklahomans stepped up to defend them.
As for the quality of Tulsa ultimate. Tulsa has been at a competitive
disadvantage for the past several years as compared to northern teams.
Why?? B/c it is a whole lot harder to get together 20+ players who can
make a 13 hour trip to the North for regionals. As a result, Tulsa
typically shows up with a smaller squad, tired from a huge ol' drive,
and loses close games at the end because they are tired.
How do I know this? B/c I was supposed to play for Tulsa in Milwaukee
a few years ago. Unfortunately, when Regionals rolled around, as a
poor college student trying to pass classes and run my college team, I
couldn't scrape together the time or the money to make the trip.
If I recall correctly, Tulsa spent the weekend losing close games with
a 12 man squad, down to 10 by sunday. Now, would I alone have made a
huge differenceand won those games? I think so, actually, but I am
arrogant, so probably a more realistic statement would be no, I might
have effected a net increase of maybe a point or two a game. But, you
add about 5-8 guys like me (easily done if Tulsa can pull in college
guys from OSU and OU with the reduced travel time), maybe Tulsa wins
some of those close games.
I'm not saying TUlsa is suddenly going to mutate into SubZero b/c
regionals is in Tulsa, but don't be surprised if they are
substantially better this year. Surely you won't begrudge them one
fair shot at regionals? And yes, it may even be MORE than fair because
some of the other teams in a similar competitive range are going to
show up with short squads because this year they will have a tough
time getting people to make the trip, much like Tulsa struggles
against every year.
Also, watch for some college teams/players (OU, OSU, KU, MSU, WASH-U,
MU, TSU, SLUT, KSU - BTW, if any of those teams read this, I think a
KU/MSU/MU/TSU/SLUT/KSU All-Star combine team would be sweet. Someone
should make it happen) to make their way to the regional tournament
that have never gone before because they can't shell out the money for
a plane ticket/huge drive most years.
Ok, rant over.
beem...@gmail.com
wherever the men are going to be, since I have no official UPA
information to go off of at this point.
Was the impact on women's teams even a consideration? How many women's
teams participated in sectionals out of Tulsa last year - how many
teams are getting some sort of benefit vs all those getting hurt by
this decision? Is our season impacted so one men's team from Tulsa can
get some more regionals experience?
Certainly to me that has a huge impact. I pay my UPA dues to play in
the series, and yes I do that with some hope that we'll find a way to
qualify for nationals. Now I'm guessing that the half of my team
that's in college can't afford the $300 it takes to get to Tulsa, so
why am I putting in all this hard work?
The UPA may not care about the loss of one single women's team -
though they should when we can only manage to get like 8 teams at
regionals every year.
So based on the message from the only UPA representative willing to
share some info (Thank you Liz) the factors that put the Tulsa bid out
front -
1) Fields: sound great, should certainly be ONE of the factors.
2) 'reasonable cost': should have kicked it right out of
consideration, travel has to be part of the equation. I agree it's not
fair for one area to pay for travel every year, so let's just pass the
hat around the central region for those few players who would be worse
off in a more central location.
3) 'Growth': does that mean that there's been some analysis of the
potential impact of this selection? Like there's some sort of
indication of the # of local teams they have that may be possibly
interested in coming, or at least trying to qualify to come, and all
these fans just dying to find a local tournament to come watch. Don't
they already host a local tournament, and why not sectionals since I
would assume those teams are closer? That should give the same
benefit, does it have to be regionals, since I've heard the UPA argue
100 times that the series is strictly for placing the best teams.
Maybe I'm just confused and there's 3 hot women's teams that have been
dying to come to regionals in the past and finally will because it's
in Tulsa this year. ???
Joseph.H...@gmail.com
Tulsa no matter what, not a big deal to drive. Regionals is usually
12 hours from Tulsa, sometimes up to 16, not quite the same benefit.
If you want Regionals closer to you, organize a bid for your city and
convince the UPA it would be the best site. Just make your college
girls drive, they're in college, they don't deserve plane flights.
As for people saying move Oklahoma to the South Region, Gainesville is
17 hours from Tulsa, Atlanta is 12 hours, doesn't really help them
much, just the other people in the Central Region who won't have to
bitch any more. Eight regions would help out a bit with driving, but
then we get to hear more bitching about bid allocation when somehow
the Northwest only gets one bid and Furious gets left out of
Natties(they're from Canada anyways, deal with it). Oh, and the South
Region would become weak without a good second team after Doublewide.
On the bright side, the Kansas City/Lawrence teams might finally make
a Natties appearance. Go bitching in ultimate!
-Joey-
PS: I agree Kansas City would be a better compromise than Tulsa, but
everyone there is far too lazy, and the only really good field site is
Heritage Park which I hear is really expensive.
Stu Jack City
individually???
Just kidding, I read all 52 other posts, which in retrospect, could
have been condensed into one post with the above sentence.
I think I know why the RC chose Tulsa. The RC must put a lot of
thought into the location of Regionals, has to ask him or herself,
"What is important", and perhaps "Why is this important". And on that
criteria, Tulsa offers perhaps more than meets eye. There's a little
place I know, a small building, sunk back off the main road, with a
sign out front that would say the "The Tin Dog Saloon" if they ever
fixed it so it would light up. It's a rare place I'd say, perhaps not
on first glance, but rare nonetheless. Perhaps you can picture it, a
thin layer of smoke wafting along the low ceiling carrying with it the
sultry southern rhythems of Johnny Cash and Widespread from the
jukebox. Rednecks and Townies side-by-side with more the courageous
and exploratory urbanites vying for the right to hold the pool table
or huddled together around the warming glow of the naked lady
photohunt machine. This is a poor man's place, a place where wealth
and status mean nothing and the true nobility are those that found a
home there, a sincere conversation with a neighbor in life who's path
you may never cross again, or perhaps a lustful glance, however
fleeting, that has the power to inspire even the most down on their
luck to try again. And when the night is concluded, the ashtrays
emptied, the darts returned their resting can, you will understand,
that as you walk out that building, there's a part of you that's left
behind. A part that has forever become one with that seemingly
insignificant location, that has joined the with the walls and the
carpet and unlit sign out front, and a sadness, brief yet very real,
will set in as you walk away. But in your heart, you know have a
gained one of those pivotal life experiences, the kind that unlocks a
whole new awareness to the world around you. For the Tin Dog leaves a
lasting metaphysical imprint on all who cross her threshold, fleeting
and unidentifiable, I know, but in you head will remain the thought,
clear as crystal and unwavering, "That was the best double-whiskey and
coke I've ever had in my entire life."
Thank you RC, I understand you.
Stu
You're in the Dog House Now...
Head Beagle
advertising?? If not, you may want to think about it.
Becky
Very insightful! I like the plug for Transformers as well. Also, thank
you for bringing up erotic photohunt. I believe that the Lion, Jimmy
Neutron, Smellsworth and David could beat any 4 guys in the region in
erotic phothunt.
That's probably a bold, stupid statement.... but it's not like I
haven't made any of those before.
Nation
casey...@gmail.com
> Swimming, camping, gambling, buffets, and beer on Sundays? I thought
> you were easier to entertain than that. After Poultry Days, I was
> convinced that all it took was some crutches and someone else's fist.
>
A. knew who you were
and/or
B. remembered anything from poultry days
ultimat...@gmail.com
this, the obvious solution. I can't believe it took this long.
Eight regions is the way to go. Trade bitching about travel for
bitching about bid allocation. Why? Because getting to Nationals is
simple (win your friggin' regional), a lot simpler than getting your
entire team a third of the way across the country.
-- sam "on a regional qualifier in '04 that withdrew due to the 14-
hour drive to Minneapolis" wood
beer...@netscape.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
Where the hell are you from, San Diego? Google Maps show that a drive
from Tulsa to Minneapolis is 10.5 hours. Are you one of two people who
live in Belize and drive up for regionals?
colinm...@gmail.com
> On Jul 20, 12:14 am, ultimatesamw...@gmail.com wrote:
> > -- sam "on a regional qualifier in '04 that withdrew due to the 14-
> > hour drive to Minneapolis" wood
> Where the hell are you from, San Diego? Google Maps show that a drive
> from Tulsa to Minneapolis is 10.5 hours. Are you one of two people who
> live in Belize and drive up for regionals?
Sounds like Ohio. Maybe Kentucky?
beer...@netscape.net
Sounds like a voice of reason who can type and read
longf...@juno.com
E
huckinterrapin
> does anyone know the name/location of the fields in Tulsa?
Valley Park Sports Complex
www dot valleyparksoccer dot com
Maps, Hotel links, More info to follow.
goo...@mikegibson.biz
great tourneys.......
I flew in from California for the Solstice tourney this summer and was
blown away. I think there is something like 30 soccer fields out in
the country along the Verdigris River- beautiful country. Camping all
around....and a Party Central. Its the best place I've beren for a
tourney.
As for the show....I still have nightmares in which Pinata's loaded
with contraband are being beheaded by flicks at 5 paces.....and some
crazy chick dancin in the rafters above us Saturday night.
Go...You will have a blast- guaranteed.
thanks for all the hard work
CR
Anyone know when Open Central Plains Sectionals are?
longf...@juno.com
Thanks.
E
BMaster
> Anyone know when Open Central Plains Sectionals are?
doug...@hotmail.com
> On Aug 1, 1:08 am, CR <ckrich...@gmail.com> wrote:> Anyone know when Open Central Plains Sectionals are?
>
> Or Northwest Plains for that matter. That would be super to know.
Been a while since they were in Manitoba. How about Wapusk National
Park? I hear the Hudson Bay is beautiful in September.
BMaster
> Been a while since they were in Manitoba. How about Wapusk National
> Park? I hear the Hudson Bay is beautiful in September.
But I <3 Maple Plain...
