The Innovators
alvey
to the game. Please add.
The Slog Sweep = Tendulkar
The Wrong 'un = Reg Bosanquet
The Top Spinner= ?
The Arm Ball = ?
(And who was the first wrist spinner?)
Folded Finger Spinning = Jack Iverson
The Reverse Sweep = ?
The Doosra = Saqlain
The Umbrella Field = Keith Carmody
Leg Theory = ? (Fred Root's captain?)
Bodyline = Jardine
The Shovel Shot = Ryan Campbell
Reverse Swing = ? (Imran Khan?)
The Headlong Dive at the Boundary Rope = Andrew Symonds
Others ?
Jawad Ali
back of the hand (wrist spin) disguised slower ball = Shoaib Akhtar?
reverse swing = Sarfraz Nawaz
reverse sweep?
John Hall
alvey <alvey_embarr...@yahoo.com> writes:
>A ramble through history to identify the players who bought something new
>to the game. Please add.
>
>The Slog Sweep = Tendulkar
>The Wrong 'un = Reg Bosanquet
>The Top Spinner= ?
>The Arm Ball = ?
>(And who was the first wrist spinner?)
>Folded Finger Spinning = Jack Iverson
>The Reverse Sweep = ?
>The Doosra = Saqlain
>The Umbrella Field = Keith Carmody
>Leg Theory = ? (Fred Root's captain?)
>Bodyline = Jardine
>The Shovel Shot = Ryan Campbell
>Reverse Swing = ? (Imran Khan?)
Sarfraz Nawaz, I think.
>The Headlong Dive at the Boundary Rope = Andrew Symonds
>
>Others ?
Leg glance - Ranji.
--
John Hall "Do you have cornflakes in America?"
"Well, actually, they're American."
"So what brings you to Britain then if you have cornflakes already?"
Bill Bryson: "Notes from a Small Island"
vicks
Not sure about the slog sweep, but Tendulkar (IIRC) was the first one
to play the paddle sweep . Unfortunately, he doesn't play that shot
much these days.
The first time I saw the reverse sweep played was in the 1987 world
cup, by Mike Gatting. IIRC he got out in the finals playing that shot.
And of course the Dilscoop -> Dilshan, although to be fair it has been
played by several others before him. But Dilshan is probably the first
one to perfect it.
And finally, Wasim Akram deserves recognition for bowling both
conventional and reverse swing in the same delivery - I remember one
in England (to Croft?) that struck him plumb in front but the umpire
was too bamboozled to give it out.
Suresh K S
Mankading? If yes, Vinoo Mankad.
Top Spinner.
Suresh
prabhu
>
> - Show quoted text -
Reverse Sweep - Botham, Texaco Trophy 1985
Paddle Sweep - Azhar used to play this around 1986, much before
Tendulkar. Ive never seen Azhar get bowled or LBW playing this shot.
Slice over Slips - ?
Don speaks the truth
Reverse swing = Sarfaraz Nawaz (and modernized by Waqar Younis)
Bat-Slapping the ball to fineleg for four(and not slog sweep) = Sachin
Tendulkar
Switch Hit = Kevin Pietersen
Sledging = Australian players as a whole (though chief credits have to
go to Steve Waugh stationed at Short leg who sledged whenever he found
tough to get a batsman out and Glenn Mcgrath who used to distract the
batsmen talking nonsense whenever the batsman pulled him away for
couple of fours).
Ball tampering = Waqar Younis and Wasim Akram (some pakis could have
done in the past)
Irriatating bowler-batsman banter = Started by Harbhajan Singh(of
stupidly trying to irritate a batsman when things are not going your
way) and popularized by Stupid Shantakumaran Sreesanth
Don
prabhu
> Irriatating bowler-batsman banter = Started by Harbhajan Singh(of
> stupidly trying to irritate a batsman when things are not going your
> way) and popularized by Stupid Shantakumaran Sreesanth
Len Pascoe used to be comical at this. He was one brainless fella.
Would walk upto Richards and keep talking. Richards would just stare
back and once Pascoe would turn to walk back to his mark, get the last
word.
Nirvanam
The slog sweep was played by many guys before. I remember Kapil
getting out to one in the 87 semi final of Hemmings, for which he lost
his captaincy for the last time.
Paddle sweep has to be Azza!
Sachin invented the cut over slips
Leg glance was Ranji
Switch hit was played by a few guys in the 80s: I remember Srikanth do
it, and if I am not mistaken Mansoor Elahi during a Pak game in
Sharjah
Dilscoop was played by guys even in the 80s but the first one to play
it consistently was Douglas Marillier of Zim
Lofting the spinners over long-off as a bread and butter shot was
Siddhu during the 87 world cup
Reverse sweep was Miandad I guess
Reverse swing could possibly be John Snow (Imran has mentioned it
before that Snow taught him the art during his county days)
Both swings in one ball - only one and dunno if it'll ever be seen
again - Wasim
Faster bouncer (faster than his regular bouncers) - Andy Roberts
Inswinging yorker - Garner? or Waqar
Stand and hit while chewing gum - David Boon (Richards managed to move
an inch)
Bowl like a monkey and look like Stan Laurel - Greg Mathews
Bowl like a horny frog - Abdul Qadir, Mushtaq tried to but couldn't
get it up
Low hold on the bat - I haven't seen players before Sachin holding
their bats like that
Half-open stance - Miandad
Score 29 centuries without hitting a six - Bradman (its almost like he
maintained celibacy against hitting a six)
Natraj shot - Kapil
Nice topic
prabhu
Claiming bumped catches - This is a Crookstralian epidemic. Chappelli
was bumped out on his first class debut.
StraightDrive
"alvey" <alvey_embarr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9faon1n5wcm1.zfbtmowzftny$.dlg@40tude.net...
Caucasians are a RACE OF PUSSIES.
Lawrence�Logic
"Nirvanam" <viz.s...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1164b42a-f1e0-4aa0...@z3g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Score 29 centuries without hitting a six - Bradman (its almost like he
> maintained celibacy against hitting a six)
>
Bradman hit two sixes in his innings of 304 at Leeds in 1934. He hit
another one when he scored 244 at The Oval a few weeks later, and hit one on
his way to 201 against India in 1948. He hit two other sixes in innings of
less than 100. Where did you get the idea that he'd never hit a six?
--
Lawrence
"Let all my fans know I love 'em, but a gay fish just can't live in the
outside world forever" - Kanye West - 8 April 2009
Nirvanam
p.com> wrote:
> "Nirvanam" <viz.sha...@gmail.com> wrote in message
O ya, he's hit 6 of them. I could swear I saw the number zero on
cricinfo a few months back when I was looking at his profile. Got that
wrong
Andrew B.
> A ramble through history to identify the players who bought something new
> to the game. Please add.
>
> The Slog Sweep = Tendulkar
> The Wrong 'un = Reg Bosanquet
Bernard Bosanquet - Reginald Bosanquet (his son?) was a newsreader.
R. Spanditt
> The Slog Sweep = Tendulkar
> The Wrong 'un = Reg Bosanquet
> The Top Spinner= ?
How have you attributed the slog sweep to Tendulkar? I feel it's well-
acknowledged that it was Steve Waugh's signature, and I can't recall
Tendulkar ever playing an actual slog sweep.
Abubakr
The lofted sweep for 6 was from Tendulkar, even by Waugh's admission,
IIRC.
Some others:
Deft upper cut/glance over slip cordon = popularised by Sachin
Tendulkar
Hitting Yorker for six by going back almost onto stumps and scooping
the ball out = invented by Sachin Tendulkar
StraightDrive
"alvey" <alvey_embarr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9faon1n5wcm1.zfbtmowzftny$.dlg@40tude.net...
Hey Alvey,
How much will you charge me for sleeping with your wife ?
LOL
R. Spanditt
Abubakr wrote:
> On 3 Oct, 09:56, "R. Spanditt" <dnarmstr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > The Slog Sweep = Tendulkar
> > > The Wrong 'un = Reg Bosanquet
> > > The Top Spinner= ?
> >
> > How have you attributed the slog sweep to Tendulkar? I feel it's well-
> > acknowledged that it was Steve Waugh's signature, and I can't recall
> > Tendulkar ever playing an actual slog sweep.
>
> The lofted sweep for 6 was from Tendulkar, even by Waugh's admission,
> IIRC.
Any references for this? Would love to see something - just can't
imagine Sachin playing that shot.
Geico Caveman
Scoop over the wicket keeper - Douglas Marriler.
viper
"Jawad Ali" <jawa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a11339be-32e1-41f4...@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Yes, the The Chuck, disguised as legitimate delivery=Murali
Viper
Suresh K S
> Paddle sweep has to be Azza!
Are you sure? But Azhar did play a very strange shot. Sort of a
overhead Tennis smash. I believe he played this in the WI. Used to
jump up and smash the rising ball.
> Switch hit was played by a few guys in the 80s: I remember Srikanth do
> it,
Cheeka surely "invented" playing the outgoing delivery with an angled
bat. Bat face angled and pointing at second slip he'd taken on Imran.
When he survived the bat got more and more slanted until - as SMG once
recounted - he was almost playing with the inside edge.
> Both swings in one ball - only one and dunno if it'll ever be seen
> again - Wasim
Again? The ball did both out and in swing? And this was by design? How
could it be? Do you mean that it swung one way and it the deck with
the seam and then seamed the other way?
How could the same delivery swing in two directions before pitching?
That said, I am prepared to believe that Wasim could do it. Perhaps
the greatest swing bowler in the last 50 years or so. Must be counted
as one of the three best if not the best swing bowler.
> Low hold on the bat - I haven't seen players before Sachin holding
> their bats like that
Peter Toohey. An Aussie batsman that faded away without making much of
an impact. Used to hold the bat very low, one hand curling around the
neck of the bat almost at the splice.
> Natraj shot - Kapil
Indeed.
> Nice topic
Amen.
Suresh
Suresh K S
> --
> John Hall
Interesting that there are no 'Wicket keeping' Innovations listed thus
far in this thread. Surely there must be interesting aspects of
keeping technique and strategy that we have not yet mentioned.
Suresh
Uday Rajan
>
> reverse sweep?
I always associated Miandad with the reverse sweep. Wasn't he among
the first to play that shot on a somewhat regular basis?
R. Spanditt
Who was the bloke wearing illegally webbed gloves a year or so
back... ?
Well, there's one.
Mad Hamish
Merv Hughes did it well before Shoaib and I doubt he was the first
>reverse swing = Sarfraz Nawaz
>reverse sweep?
--
"Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by."
Stuart Adamson 1958-2001
Mad Hamish
Hamish Laws
newsunsp...@iinet.unspamme.net.au
Mad Hamish
The Flipper - Clarrie Grimmett
John Hall
<99bdcace-d978-4e3a...@k41g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>,
First keeper to dispense with a long stop: George Pinder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pinder_(cricketer)
(Claims have also been made for other keepers, Jack Blackham among
them.)
John Hall
Nirvanam
>
> Are you sure? But Azhar did play a very strange shot. Sort of a
> overhead Tennis smash. I believe he played this in the WI. Used to
> jump up and smash the rising ball.
Ya the shot you mention was the Azza Flick off the pads...he used to
almost whip it!
Yep paddle sweep was Azza..Azza would just pat the ball (even during
the mid 80s...I remember him playing that shot during his 199 against
SL in 86). Sachin extended the bat a little more to complete the arc
> > Both swings in one ball - only one and dunno if it'll ever be seen
> > again - Wasim
>
> Again? The ball did both out and in swing? And this was by design? How
> could it be? Do you mean that it swung one way and it the deck with
> the seam and then seamed the other way?
> How could the same delivery swing in two directions before pitching?
> That said, I am prepared to believe that Wasim could do it. Perhaps
> the greatest swing bowler in the last 50 years or so. Must be counted
> as one of the three best if not the best swing bowler.
I dunno if it was by design but he did do it. Lets just assume it is
by design just for romanticizing. Check out the ball he bowled to
robert croft on youtube. It was plumb but it all happened at such pace
the umpire could be forgiven for not giving croft out. The ball came
in dipping down and probably 1 or 2 yards from the pads of croft it
swung out. The umpire would've thought the ball was missing
leg...obviously it seemed like defying the laws of physics so he
couldn't believe his eyes. Wasim was furious! Here's the ball -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL6Bb1HBrIU&feature=PlayList&p=6654C5C3744AF4A7&index=9
Nirvanam
Suresh, check out this video too. I think some of the deliveries here
are the "double swing" ones too. Or maybe I am seeing too much...you
could confirm it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSXag0BlKRE
Watch the ones to Arnold at 0:26
to Trescothick at 1:22
to Sachin at 2:17
Jawad Ali
invention; almost as influential as the rest of them combined.
Regularly pinched single = Miandad?
subi...@hotmail.com
> A ramble through history to identify the players who bought something new
> to the game. Please add.
>
> The Slog Sweep = Tendulkar
> The Wrong 'un = Reg Bosanquet
> The Top Spinner= ?
> The Arm Ball = ?
> (And who was the first wrist spinner?)
> Folded Finger Spinning = Jack Iverson
> The Reverse Sweep = ?
> The Doosra = Saqlain
> The Umbrella Field = Keith Carmody
> Leg Theory = ? (Fred Root's captain?)
> Bodyline = Jardine
> The Shovel Shot = Ryan Campbell
> Reverse Swing = ? (Imran Khan?)
> The Headlong Dive at the Boundary Rope = Andrew Symonds
>
> Others ?
flamingo shot: kevin pietersen
carrom ball: mendis
slower ball?
question: have ponting and lara invented?
Suresh K S
> From the list so far, I would pick reverse swing as the most important
> invention; almost as influential as the rest of them combined.
Reverse Swing is perhaps the most important of the 'modern'
innovations. I think some of the other innovations that are equally
significant, if not more so, are older. For instance, the Googly and
the Flipper. These are at least 50 years old now if not much older and
therefore have become a part of regular programming.
Strokes such as the Paddle Sweep while hugely useful are not as
significant in their impact as Reverse Swing and the other bowling
innovations. Perhaps the leg glance / flick behind the wicket is most
significant of the batting innovation (for it takes away an entire
region in which the bowler cannot pitch and hope to go unpunished -
deliveries just outside the leg or on the leg and middle stump will
put away by batsmen).
Suresh
Bob Dubery
> A ramble through history to identify the players who bought something new
> to the game. Please add.
>
> The Slog Sweep = Tendulkar
<snip>
> Reverse Swing = ? (Imran Khan?)
Sarfraz Nawaz
Bob Dubery
wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 12:47:40 -0700 (PDT), Jawad Ali
>
> >back of the hand (wrist spin) disguised slower ball = Shoaib Akhtar?
>
> Merv Hughes did it well before Shoaib and I doubt he was the first
Spook Hanley was bowling that delivery in SA domestic FC cricket in
the mid 80s.
Bob Dubery
> Not sure about the slog sweep, but Tendulkar (IIRC) was the first one
> to play the paddle sweep . Unfortunately, he doesn't play that shot
> much these days.
>
> The first time I saw the reverse sweep played was in the 1987 world
> cup, by Mike Gatting. IIRC he got out in the finals playing that shot.
Botham had played it before then. But there was lots of criticism
along the lines of it being known that it was a risky shot so I'm sure
Botham wasn't the first.
Bob Dubery
> Both swings in one ball - only one and dunno if it'll ever be seen
> again - Wasim
Waqar Younis got Andrew Hudson with such a delivery in an ODI in SA.
Even after watching the slomo replays I could hardly believe it. It
was a very full length. Swung out and Hudson started adjusting for the
outswing and then it came back in again. All this at Waqar's pace. It
was hard to blame the batsman for getting out.
> Faster bouncer (faster than his regular bouncers) - Andy Roberts
> Inswinging yorker - Garner? or Waqar
Certainly not Waqar because Clive Rice had that one - though he may
have been inspired by Garner.
John Hall
<ebd404f6-e2f6-4bbf...@r31g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
I have an idea that Mushtaq Mohammed played the shot, or something very
much like it, circa 1970.
Nirvanam
> Even after watching the slomo replays I could hardly believe it. It
> was a very full length. Swung out and Hudson started adjusting for the
> outswing and then it came back in again. All this at Waqar's pace. It
> was hard to blame the batsman for getting out.
Bob, I'd love to watch that...any links?
Nirvanam
Lara has definitely innovated with his batting but I can't recollect
his own invented strokes immediately.
Ponting has been the master of "copy-book stroke-making without
inventing anything new" in the modern day. Even the pull in front of
the wicket that he plays so wonderfully well is not his invention.
O ya that reminds me of another one..
The flick from outside/around off over mid-wicket for six/four - Azza.
I remember Azza being particularly severe on the English bowlers in
the 2 ODIs played at Gwalior during early March 1993. The bowlers were
DeFraitas, Lewis, Jarvis, Reeve
Rahul Tyagi
>
> Watch the ones to Arnold at 0:26
> to Trescothick at 1:22
> to Sachin at 2:17
hmmm.. I'd suggest that you are seeing too much. the first one
(previous post... Croft?) is actually the closest thing to what you
are talking about, but I'm not so sure that the ball was ever swinging
in. It is pobably the angle of the delivery that gives the impression
that the ball was swinging in. I think it was a great ball that was
angled in from wide of the crease and took an impossibly late outswing
that straightened it so that it hit perfectly in line with the stumps.
As for other videos, they aren't this close at all. One of them
(trescothick) seemed to be swinging in and seaming out at the bounce.
and in Sachin's case, I think the movement was in the same direction,
and any 'reverse' was again at the point of bounce, so was probably
seam rather than swing.
Rahul
Sharad
> A ramble through history to identify the players who bought something new
> to the game. Please add.
>
> The Slog Sweep = Tendulkar
Bowling a bouncer and then apologizing to the batsman for bowling one =
Srinath
Don speaks the truth
LOL and the batsman shouts "F..K U" to him in return for his
apology.........another one comes to mind immediately.
Strike batsman hits a shot and says yes for a run to the non striker
and non striker starts running then striker goes back and non striker
sees that and goes back by the time striker starts running forward
again....guess who are the two great kannadiga players to have
patented this comedy of errors scene before a run-out
Don
Andrew Dunford
"John Hall" <nospam...@jhall.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Y8oaYXBT...@jhall.demon.co.uk.invalid...
> In article
> <ebd404f6-e2f6-4bbf...@r31g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
> Bob Dubery <mega...@gmail.com> writes:
>>On Oct 2, 10:53 pm, vicks <shgupt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Not sure about the slog sweep, but Tendulkar (IIRC) was the first one
>>> to play the paddle sweep . Unfortunately, he doesn't play that shot
>>> much these days.
>>>
>>> The first time I saw the reverse sweep played was in the 1987 world
>>> cup, by Mike Gatting. IIRC he got out in the finals playing that shot.
>>Botham had played it before then. But there was lots of criticism
>>along the lines of it being known that it was a risky shot so I'm sure
>>Botham wasn't the first.
>
> I have an idea that Mushtaq Mohammed played the shot, or something very
> much like it, circa 1970.
I have also heard of it being credited to his brother Hanif, even if that
sounds a little unlikely!
However there is also a story about Duleepsinhji playing one for Hindus v
Parsis in the 1928 Bombay Quadrangular. According to his batting partner LP
Jai:
'Without changing the grip of the bat, he tried to turn the wide ball
backwards towards the third-man with his bat turned and facing the
wicket-keeper'.
Andrew
Andrew Dunford
"Don speaks the truth" <don2...@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:326be225-40bf-4de0...@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 3, 12:34 am, alvey <alvey_embarrassingsta...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> A ramble through history to identify the players who bought something new
>> to the game. Please add.
>>
>> The Slog Sweep = Tendulkar
>> The Wrong 'un = Reg Bosanquet
>> The Top Spinner= ?
>> The Arm Ball = ?
>> (And who was the first wrist spinner?)
>> Folded Finger Spinning = Jack Iverson
>> The Reverse Sweep = ?
>> The Doosra = Saqlain
>> The Umbrella Field = Keith Carmody
>> Leg Theory = ? (Fred Root's captain?)
>> Bodyline = Jardine
>> The Shovel Shot = Ryan Campbell
>> Reverse Swing = ? (Imran Khan?)
>> The Headlong Dive at the Boundary Rope = Andrew Symonds
>>
>> Others ?
>
> Reverse swing = Sarfaraz Nawaz (and modernized by Waqar Younis)
> Bat-Slapping the ball to fineleg for four(and not slog sweep) = Sachin
> Tendulkar
> Switch Hit = Kevin Pietersen
Not sure who invented the switch hit but it definitely wasn't Pietersen.
Paul Nixon played it regularly in county cricket before that.
The first switch hits I ever saw were played - believe it or not - by the
young Jacques Kallis during his first stint in county cricket, for Middlesex
at Lord's in 1997. Can't remember which match it was but I have a strong
recollection that the bowling was from the Pavilion end and Kallis twice
switched hands to hit the ball into the Grandstand for six.
Andrew
Andrew Dunford
"alvey" <alvey_embarr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9faon1n5wcm1.zfbtmowzftny$.dlg@40tude.net...
> A ramble through history to identify the players who bought something new
> to the game. Please add.
>
> The Slog Sweep = Tendulkar
> The Wrong 'un = Reg Bosanquet
> The Top Spinner= ?
> The Arm Ball = ?
> (And who was the first wrist spinner?)
> Folded Finger Spinning = Jack Iverson
> The Reverse Sweep = ?
> The Doosra = Saqlain
> The Umbrella Field = Keith Carmody
> Leg Theory = ? (Fred Root's captain?)
> Bodyline = Jardine
> The Shovel Shot = Ryan Campbell
There are stories crediting Australian wicket-keeper of the early 20th
century Hanson 'Sammy' Carter with inventing the shovel or scoop shot.
Another batting innovation was throwing the bat away to avoid being out
caught when playing defensively against a spinner on a bunsen. This was
pioneered by Dermot Reeve when at Warwickshire, although I am unable to
confirm what Reeve was on at the time.
<snip>
Andrew
Bob Dubery
> Another batting innovation was throwing the bat away to avoid being out
> caught when playing defensively against a spinner on a bunsen. This was
> pioneered by Dermot Reeve when at Warwickshire, although I am unable to
> confirm what Reeve was on at the time.
A thousand and a half a week?
Andrew Dunford
"Bob Dubery" <mega...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0bb9101b-7dd2-4130...@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
He'd need to be swallowing fast.
Andrew
Mad Hamish
Not really, I think the gloves he was wearing were bog standard gloves
that had been made illegal by a rule change.
Now the first person to get wicket-keeping gloves that provided some
protection was an innovator.
alvey
> A ramble through history to identify the players who bought something new
> to the game. Please add.
>
Update:
> The Shovel Shot = Ryan Campbell
Now Doug Marrilier (Zimb)
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marillier_shot
alvey
>>
>>back of the hand (wrist spin) disguised slower ball = Shoaib Akhtar?
>
> Merv Hughes did it well before Shoaib and I doubt he was the first
First one that I can recall was SOD.
alvey
alvey
>
> Leg glance - Ranji.
Did Raji actually invent the leg-glance? Or did he just play it better than
anyone else? It doesn't appear logical that there was no shot behind square
until his advent.
alvey
alvey
>
> Reverse Sweep - Botham, Texaco Trophy 1985
Old news by then.
> Paddle Sweep - Azhar used to play this around 1986, much before
> Tendulkar.
Dennis Compton may have a claim on this shot. It'd depend on what the
definition is.
alvey
alvey
> On 2 Oct, 20:34, alvey <alvey_embarrassingsta...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> A ramble through history to identify the players who bought something new
>> to the game. Please add.
>>
>> The Slog Sweep = Tendulkar
>> The Wrong 'un = Reg Bosanquet
>
> Bernard Bosanquet - Reginald Bosanquet (his son?) was a newsreader.
Ta.
alvey
> "alvey" <alvey_embarr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:9faon1n5wcm1.zfbtmowzftny$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> A ramble through history to identify the players who bought something new
>> to the game. Please add.
>>
>> The Slog Sweep = Tendulkar
>> The Wrong 'un = Reg Bosanquet
>> The Top Spinner= ?
>> The Arm Ball = ?
>> (And who was the first wrist spinner?)
>> Folded Finger Spinning = Jack Iverson
>> The Reverse Sweep = ?
>> The Doosra = Saqlain
>> The Umbrella Field = Keith Carmody
>> Leg Theory = ? (Fred Root's captain?)
>> Bodyline = Jardine
>> The Shovel Shot = Ryan Campbell
>
> There are stories crediting Australian wicket-keeper of the early 20th
> century Hanson 'Sammy' Carter with inventing the shovel or scoop shot.
I've seen a photo of Carter playing his shot (and read descriptions) and it
was very much a standing erect one. The Campbell Shovel Shot I was
referring is the down-on-one-knee to a length ball variant. A couple of
people have opined that Doug M of Z was the first notable player of this
shot but I've not read that before. Some specifics would be good.
>
> Another batting innovation was throwing the bat away to avoid being out
> caught when playing defensively against a spinner on a bunsen. This was
> pioneered by Dermot Reeve when at Warwickshire, although I am unable to
> confirm what Reeve was on at the time.
He was on borrowed time.
alvey
Nirvanam
> On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 14:15:11 +1300, Andrew Dunford wrote:
Marillier...I remember watching him play this shot regularly during
the 2001-02 Zim tour to India. In one of the games he almost won it
for Zim (or did they win?) by astonishing Indian bowlers with that
shot...no one knew what to do.
John Hall
Before Ranji there were shots behind square, but not played with a
vertical bat, which is my understanding of what a leg glance is.
Andrew Dunford
"alvey" <alvey_embarr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:na8uxagboz2d$.1csifqwbt5u55.dlg@40tude.net...
Marillier is the one who became known for it, but I wondered whether this
was because he did it on the international stage and that perhaps Campbell
was doing it domestically before that. I do recall well that final over at
Perth in which Marillier played the shot twice off McGrath. This was also
the match in which Warne called Stuart Carlisle a "fucking arsey cunt" very
loudly into the stump microphone.
The shot certainly gained the Marillier name because he was good at it.
Andrew
Bob Dubery
> "Bob Dubery" <megap...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > A thousand and a half a week?
>
> He'd need to be swallowing fast.
They could be shorts.
alvey
Yairsss. I have the same problem with John's claim re Ranji & the
leg-glance. It doesn't seem possible that he "invented" what is an
instinctive shot. AND I'm dilemmaed over the Campbell v Marillier. I'm
reasonably confident that Campo was the first to play it, on the
medium-sized stage at least, as me recall of watching is clear, esp of all
the comms saying things like "Ahhv'e niver seen t' like of it." The Truth
is that alot of these shots were probably invented by some third-grader at
net practice. Who knows? These are questions which need some dedicated &
skilled research. Rules me out...
alvey
Mad Hamish
<alvey_embarr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>A ramble through history to identify the players who bought something new
>to the game. Please add.
>
>The Slog Sweep = Tendulkar
>The Wrong 'un = Reg Bosanquet
>The Top Spinner= ?
>The Arm Ball = ?
>(And who was the first wrist spinner?)
>Folded Finger Spinning = Jack Iverson
>The Reverse Sweep = ?
>The Doosra = Saqlain
>The Umbrella Field = Keith Carmody
>Leg Theory = ? (Fred Root's captain?)
>Bodyline = Jardine
>The Shovel Shot = Ryan Campbell
>Reverse Swing = ? (Imran Khan?)
>The Headlong Dive at the Boundary Rope = Andrew Symonds
>
>Others ?
'
standard swing, Barton King from the USA is the likely suspect.
Andrew Dunford
"alvey" <al...@play.com> wrote in message
news:gdfp27b9noh5.d...@40tude.net...
True enough, in the same way that people say Pietersen invented the 'switch
hit' because he made it famous.
And you do see some bizarre shots in lower grades and especially with kids.
In my youth there was a bloke playing school first XI cricket in
Christchurch who played the slow bowlers by flicking the ball up with his
boot and then hitting it with his bat. I had a boy in the under-9 team I
coached last season who would perform an almost 360 degree turn as he played
the pull shot to wayward slow leg-side bowling. The result was that he'd
hit the ball in the middle of the bat, it would pass his stumps to the leg
side but on such an angle that it went to the third man boundary.
I once took guard as a right-handed batsman in a school match. The
wicket-keeper moved into his position outside off stump and two slip
fieldsmen took up their posts beside him. As the first ball was coming down
the pitch (it was a slow bowler) I quickly changed to my customary
left-handed stance and nibbled the ball down through where the slips should
have been. Perhaps a reverse late cut.
Andrew
John Hall
alvey <al...@play.com> writes:
>I have the same problem with John's claim re Ranji & the
>leg-glance. It doesn't seem possible that he "invented" what is an
>instinctive shot.
I don't think that playing it with a near-vertical bat is instinctive.
The natural way to play a shot behind square on the leg side is with a
cross bat. Those writing about Ranji during and just after his career
all seem to think that he invented the leg glance played with a vertical
bat.
alvey
>
> I once took guard as a right-handed batsman in a school match. The
> wicket-keeper moved into his position outside off stump and two slip
> fieldsmen took up their posts beside him. As the first ball was coming down
> the pitch (it was a slow bowler) I quickly changed to my customary
> left-handed stance and nibbled the ball down through where the slips should
> have been. Perhaps a reverse late cut.
Pity you didn't get hit in the nuts. Fucken cheating batscum.
alvey
in bris, guessing that thigh pads & batting gloves were unknown at your
alma mater.
alvey
> In article <gdfp27b9noh5.d...@40tude.net>,
> alvey <al...@play.com> writes:
>>I have the same problem with John's claim re Ranji & the
>>leg-glance. It doesn't seem possible that he "invented" what is an
>>instinctive shot.
>
> I don't think that playing it with a near-vertical bat is instinctive.
> The natural way to play a shot behind square on the leg side is with a
> cross bat.
You may be correct JH. Real men smash leg-side bowling so it's entirely
credible that someone in Pomgolia developed this effete knurdle.
> Those writing about Ranji during and just after his career
> all seem to think that he invented the leg glance played with a vertical
> bat.
Upper-class propagandaists. From the same stable that listed M Brearley at
#98 on a list of Best Ever Test players. Take the blinkers off man!
alvey
Uday Rajan
I wager that most of the people writing about Ranji during and just
after his career did not live anywhere near long enough to know about
Brearley, leave alone put him on a list of best ever Test players.
FWIW, ISTR reading plenty of authors who credit Ranji with inventing
the leg-glance. Cardus, in his essay on Ranji, describes it as a
distinctly un-Christian (by which he means unorthodox, given the
orthodoxy of the day) stroke. Of course, Cardus (as was his wont) goes
overboard (in that essay, down the path of eastern mysticism), but he
certainly conveys the impression that Ranji had conjured up a stroke
no one else could quite conceive of. Apparently, Ranji used to play it
to deliveries on the stumps, which surprised many people. That makes
him sound like some sort of precursor of Viv Richards on the leg-side,
though more inclined to play towards deep fine leg than mid-wicket.
alvey
> On Oct 6, 6:41�pm, alvey <al...@play.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 10:28:54 +0100, John Hall wrote:
>
>>> Those writing about Ranji during and just after his career
>>> all seem to think that he invented the leg glance played with a vertical
>>> bat.
>>
>> Upper-class propagandaists. From the same stable that listed M Brearley at
>> #98 on a list of Best Ever Test players. Take the blinkers off man!
>
> I wager that most of the people writing about Ranji during and just
> after his career did not live anywhere near long enough to know about
> Brearley, leave alone put him on a list of best ever Test players.
> FWIW, ISTR reading plenty of authors who credit Ranji with inventing
> the leg-glance. Cardus, in his essay on Ranji, describes it as a
> distinctly un-Christian (by which he means unorthodox, given the
> orthodoxy of the day) stroke.
Yair I've read that, but interpreted it as Ranji playing the shot
"devilishly" late and from positions that upright, Christian poms (oxymoron
time?) didn't.
> Of course, Cardus (as was his wont) goes
> overboard
Gasp! Never!
I've never been a Cardus fan because of his invention of dialogue. How does
the reader know what was actually said and what was manufactured?
> (in that essay, down the path of eastern mysticism), but he
> certainly conveys the impression that Ranji had conjured up a stroke
> no one else could quite conceive of. Apparently, Ranji used to play it
> to deliveries on the stumps,
He must've worn a few then. No thigh pads in those days.
> which surprised many people. That makes
> him sound like some sort of precursor of Viv Richards on the leg-side,
> though more inclined to play towards deep fine leg than mid-wicket.
And presumably Ranji played more off the back foot.
Thought: There's footage of Grace, is there any of Ranji?
alvey
Andrew Dunford
"alvey" <al...@play.com> wrote in message
news:m44lgrxkrcek.d...@40tude.net...
Yep, the Barnett filming of Ranjitsinhji practicing in the nets at Sydney in
1897 is generally considered to be the first cricket film made, or at least
the oldest surviving.
I saw it about 15 years ago at one of those cricket archive evenings David
Frith periodically hosts at the National Film Theatre in London, and to
which I was given - in a rare fit of inspiration - a ticket as a birthday
present. However it ain't the sort of footage that is likely to show up on
youtube.
No, I can't remember whether he played the leg glance.
http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/title/411544
Andrew
Andrew Dunford
"alvey" <al...@play.com> wrote in message
news:1sd09rmb9r5te$.1ja9nmrpe8geb$.dlg@40tude.net...
No thigh pads. Batting gloves were always whatever was in the bag in that
grade, which was never left-handed anyway.
Andrew
alvey
> http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/title/411544
Good get AD.
It'd probably be even better if it was viewable...
alvey
in Brx, wondering where the "Association Ground" in Sinney is/was?
Lawrence�Logic
"Andrew Dunford" <adun...@artifax.net> wrote in message
news:7j2o2nF...@mid.individual.net...
>
> No thigh pads. Batting gloves were always whatever was in the bag in that
> grade, which was never left-handed anyway.
>
What's the difference between left-handed and right-handed kit bags?
--
Lawrence
"I got such a raging clue that I almost shot clue goo all over Joe." - Frank
Hardly - 11 October 2006
alvey
> "Andrew Dunford" <adun...@artifax.net> wrote in message
> news:7j2o2nF...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> No thigh pads. Batting gloves were always whatever was in the bag in that
>> grade, which was never left-handed anyway.
>>
>
> What's the difference between left-handed and right-handed kit bags?
lol.
I think people should get double points when they nail pedants like AD.
alvey
Andrew Dunford
"alvey" <al...@play.com> wrote in message
news:1fbtyogq3ydjy$.ej0ike32zzkv$.dlg@40tude.net...
It does seem a bit strange they were still calling it the Association Ground
in 1897 because it was renamed the Sydney Cricket Ground in about 1894.
Andrew
Uday Rajan
> I've never been a Cardus fan because of his invention of dialogue. How does
> the reader know what was actually said and what was manufactured?
My impression, at least, is that it was largely manufactured, and
little of it was actually said. But it should have been said, even
though it wasn't. Perhaps Ted Wainwright never complained to Cardus
about the rookie Yorkshire batsman who had the temerity to hit a
boundary before lunch in the Roses match, but that line perfectly sums
up the seriousness with which the match was approached. Perhaps Patsy
Hendren didn't really run his first run while clutching his bat to his
chest because when he was young to give up the bat meant your turn was
over, but that line captures something about the spirit of the man. I
think of Cardus as being much like a portrait artist who is interested
in conveying information about the personality of his subject, rather
than just the superficial looks. Some of that may be made up by the
artist, but it's nevertheless a more interesting depiction of the
subject.
alvey
Yep, I can see and understand all that. Cardus was undeniably a genius at
creating a superb encapsulation of atmosphere and characters in a couple of
lines of creative dialogue, he just doesn't rock my boat.
alvey
John Hall
Maxx
> On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 10:28:54 +0100, John Hall wrote:
Perhaps you could explain where you got the idea that the list is of
"best ever Test players" when the name of the book is "100 Greatest
Cricketers"?
Ah yes, you've pulled it out your arse again.
alvey
Sorry Maxxie, I've just formally responded to Mr Speaks-Bollocks & Howzat
so that's my daily quota of Responses to Silly Posts already filled. Check
again later. Or don't.
alvey
Maxx
Waiting.....
alvey
>
> Waiting.....
Could you wait quietly please?
alvey
Maxx
Still trying to work out the difference between "best ever Test
players" and "greatest cricketers" I see....
alvey
Ssssh. You'll attract attention if you keep on squeaking.
alvey
Mike Gooding
> In article <fe6f8bxql7c$.wfy5970dfbws$....@40tude.net>,
>
> alvey <alvey_embarrassingsta...@yahoo.com> writes:
> >On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 21:11:04 +0100, John Hall wrote:
>
> >> Leg glance - Ranji.
>
> >Did Raji actually invent the leg-glance? Or did he just play it better than
> >anyone else? It doesn't appear logical that there was no shot behind square
> >until his advent.
>
> Before Ranji there were shots behind square, but not played with a
> vertical bat, which is my understanding of what a leg glance is.
I think Ranji's innovation was that the bat was vertical and that he
actually hit the ball towards the boundary rather than just deflecting
it. I don't think anyone else has ever played the shot that way, so
maybe it was an evolutionary dead-end, like StraightDrive.
Mike Gooding
--------------------
Maxx
alvey
Oooooooooh no you don't.
Maxx
" Touche' " is the word you're looking for.
alvey
Nope, it's you who's looking.
And here's the phrase that you've found! "You're a goose Maxxie."
alvey
Mad Hamish
<jawa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>From the list so far, I would pick reverse swing as the most important
>invention; almost as influential as the rest of them combined.
>
>Regularly pinched single = Miandad?
Hobbs did it slightly before Miandad
--
"Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by."
Stuart Adamson 1958-2001
Mad Hamish
Hamish Laws
newsunsp...@iinet.unspamme.net.au
Maxx
alvey
> On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 10:59:47 -0700 (PDT), Jawad Ali
> <jawa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>From the list so far, I would pick reverse swing as the most important
>>invention; almost as influential as the rest of them combined.
>>
>>Regularly pinched single = Miandad?
>
> Hobbs did it slightly before Miandad
Hornby & Barlow.
alvey
alvey
Ok. You "win" Maxxie.
I can't tell the difference between the "best ever Test
players" and "greatest cricketers". But hang on a minute! You're a
self-proclaimed genius so you should have absolutely no trouble at all
explaining it. Go for it!
alvey
Maxx
Not self-proclaimed, IQ Test-proclaimed.
Here's a hint: Jonty wouldn't make any Best Test XI, but he's
commonly accepted as the best *fielder* ever.
A "great cricketer".
Similar story with WG.
alvey
Well that's a big fat lie. Possibly a couple even.
>
> Here's a hint: Jonty wouldn't make any Best Test XI, but he's
> commonly accepted as the best *fielder* ever.
> A "great cricketer".
lol.
Poor little Maxxie.
Has to alter a quote to try and get it to fit.
Better luck next time champ.
>
> Similar story with WG.
What rubbish.
alvey
Maxx
lol. try "liar liar pants on fire" next time.
> > Here's a hint: Jonty wouldn't make any Best Test XI, but he's
> > commonly accepted as the best *fielder* ever.
> > A "great cricketer".
>
> lol.
> Poor little Maxxie.
> Has to alter a quote to try and get it to fit.
what quote?
> > Similar story with WG.
>
> What rubbish.
No one thinks of WG as one of the "best Test cricketers", but a "great
cricketer"? Of course.
He's second on the list.
Suresh K S
>
> I don't think that playing it with a near-vertical bat is instinctive.
> The natural way to play a shot behind square on the leg side is with a
> cross bat. Those writing about Ranji during and just after his career
> all seem to think that he invented the leg glance played with a vertical
> bat.
I recall reading about Rohan Kanhai's "falling sweep shot" - is this
some flavor of the more conventional Sweep? Surely that must have come
way before Kanhai. Or did Kanhai create something significantly
different to make it to this list?
There was also an English batsman known for his ability to play the
Sweep. Barrington? or was it somebody more recent?
Suresh
alvey
> On Oct 6, 5:28�am, John Hall <nospam_no...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't think that playing it with a near-vertical bat is instinctive.
>> The natural way to play a shot behind square on the leg side is with a
>> cross bat. Those writing about Ranji during and just after his career
>> all seem to think that he invented the leg glance played with a vertical
>> bat.
>
> I recall reading about Rohan Kanhai's "falling sweep shot" - is this
> some flavor of the more conventional Sweep? Surely that must have come
> way before Kanhai. Or did Kanhai create something significantly
> different to make it to this list?
I wouldn't put any money down, but I suspect that this "falling sweep" may
have been a variation on *any* horizontal bat shot to leg played by Kanhai.
He often swung so hard at the ball that he got both feet off the ground.
Or it might have been a literal description...
http://www.cricketvideo.com/legends/rohan_kanhai_400.jpg
alvey
John Hall
<d4e874b8-dcf4-4b91...@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>,
Suresh K S <sureshka...@gmail.com> writes:
>On Oct 6, 5:28�am, John Hall <nospam_no...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't think that playing it with a near-vertical bat is instinctive.
>> The natural way to play a shot behind square on the leg side is with a
>> cross bat. Those writing about Ranji during and just after his career
>> all seem to think that he invented the leg glance played with a vertical
>> bat.
>
>I recall reading about Rohan Kanhai's "falling sweep shot" - is this
>some flavor of the more conventional Sweep? Surely that must have come
>way before Kanhai. Or did Kanhai create something significantly
>different to make it to this list?
I think the main difference with Kanhai was simply that he tended to
fall over. :) Perhaps that was due to his putting more power into the
shot than other people?
>
>There was also an English batsman known for his ability to play the
>Sweep. Barrington? or was it somebody more recent?
>
The most famous English player for playing the sweep was Denis Compton.
Nirvanam
> There was also an English batsman known for his ability to play the
> Sweep. Barrington? or was it somebody more recent?
>
> Suresh
Is the more recent one, Gatting? I've heard Atherton, Bumble and the
Sky crew go gaga about his ability to sweep the spinners