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The sorry 'keeping situation
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D Ramapriya
Feb 27, 2013, 11:05:02 PM2/27/13
to
Chakabva
De Villiers
Dhoni
Jayawardene
Mushfiquir
Prior
Ramdin
Sarfraz Ahmed
Wade
Watling
Has the cricketing world ever seen a concurrent set of international
WKs with lesser 'keeping abilities than these, I wonder?
Ramapriya
De Villiers
Dhoni
Jayawardene
Mushfiquir
Prior
Ramdin
Sarfraz Ahmed
Wade
Watling
Has the cricketing world ever seen a concurrent set of international
WKs with lesser 'keeping abilities than these, I wonder?
Ramapriya
alvey
Feb 27, 2013, 11:25:27 PM2/27/13
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It's getting to the stage where those of us who've actually seen a great keeper in action live are dropping like balls coming at M Wade. And how is the trend ever going to reverse? Australia's keepers of late have followed Imperial Roman Emperors post Augustus. Each one being worse than his predecessor. Although there *is* a way that Oz can reverse it. Just as soon as NSW has the best gloveman there'll be a change in selection policy. Mind you, there are no glovemen from NSW in our ATG keepers club. Odd that.
alvey
If anyone's interested that club would be; Blackham, Tallon, Grout, Marsh & Healy.
willsutton
Feb 28, 2013, 12:20:43 AM2/28/13
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He just isn't good enough to make it even in that list
alvey
Feb 28, 2013, 12:34:01 AM2/28/13
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He was probably an aggressive supporter of the One Spinner policy for T1.
alvey
willsutton
Feb 28, 2013, 4:09:00 AM2/28/13
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david.b...@gmail.com
Feb 28, 2013, 4:21:44 AM2/28/13
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But he is stepping up, improving all the time.
Not sure how we would keep with a really good spinner bowling but then again when are we likely to find one of those?
Mike Holmans
Feb 28, 2013, 4:27:56 AM2/28/13
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On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:05:02 -0800 (PST), D Ramapriya
<d.ram...@gmail.com> tapped the keyboard and brought forth:
Possibly not collectively, but Prasanna Jayawardene and Matt Prior
would definitely be entitled to be very miffed at the implication that
they aren't Test-standard keepers, and I'd have a lot of sympathy were
Mushfiqur to complain about being lumped in with the likes of Dhoni.
Cheers,
Mike
--
<d.ram...@gmail.com> tapped the keyboard and brought forth:
would definitely be entitled to be very miffed at the implication that
they aren't Test-standard keepers, and I'd have a lot of sympathy were
Mushfiqur to complain about being lumped in with the likes of Dhoni.
Cheers,
Mike
--
D Ramapriya
Feb 28, 2013, 5:04:00 AM2/28/13
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On Feb 28, 1:21 pm, david.baker...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> If you had written this a few months ago I would have jhad a go about de Villiers
> But he is stepping up, improving all the time.
> Not sure how we would keep with a really good spinner bowling but then again when are we likely to find one of those?
The ever-present problem with specialist batters who do a reasonable
>
> If you had written this a few months ago I would have jhad a go about de Villiers
> But he is stepping up, improving all the time.
> Not sure how we would keep with a really good spinner bowling but then again when are we likely to find one of those?
ball-stopping act is that because of their technique (lack of), their
fingers are always likely to break. One delivery, or even a rough
throw, is all it takes. Has De Villiers 'kept for reasonable periods
elsewhere? I used to cringe each time our management donned the mitts
on Dravid earlier although mercifully not in a Test.
Ramapriya
D Ramapriya
Feb 28, 2013, 5:20:15 AM2/28/13
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On Feb 28, 1:27 pm, Mike Holmans <m...@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Has the cricketing world ever seen a concurrent set of international
> >WKs with lesser 'keeping abilities than these, I wonder?
>
> Possibly not collectively, but Prasanna Jayawardene and Matt Prior
> would definitely be entitled to be very miffed at the implication that
> they aren't Test-standard keepers, and I'd have a lot of sympathy were
> Mushfiqur to complain about being lumped in with the likes of Dhoni.
Jayawardene has regressed over the past 18 months or so. Mushfiqur's
>
> >Has the cricketing world ever seen a concurrent set of international
> >WKs with lesser 'keeping abilities than these, I wonder?
>
> Possibly not collectively, but Prasanna Jayawardene and Matt Prior
> would definitely be entitled to be very miffed at the implication that
> they aren't Test-standard keepers, and I'd have a lot of sympathy were
> Mushfiqur to complain about being lumped in with the likes of Dhoni.
'keeping is passable at best but I like his Taibu-like chutzpah of
using captaincy to promote himself to levels where nobody else would
have him bat :)
Ramapriya
**matto**
Feb 28, 2013, 6:11:05 AM2/28/13
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On Thursday, February 28, 2013 4:20:43 PM UTC+11, willsutton wrote:
>
> I dont think Wade deserves to be in this list.
>
>
>
> He just isn't good enough to make it even in that list
Gilchrist was such a talent that he was great gloveman and a dangerous batsman. He raised the bar for all concerned and now other countries think about putting in a batsman that can fit into some gloves. Gilchrist was something special.
>
> I dont think Wade deserves to be in this list.
>
>
>
> He just isn't good enough to make it even in that list
If we can't find another Gilchrist at least another Oldfield to keep to the spinners in India.
Two legends of their craft Gilchrist and Oldfield.
Mike Gooding
Feb 28, 2013, 7:10:21 AM2/28/13
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On Thursday, 28 February 2013 11:11:05 UTC, **matto** wrote:
> Gilchrist was such a talent that he was great gloveman and a dangerous batsman. He raised the bar for all concerned and now other countries think about putting in a batsman that can fit into some gloves. Gilchrist was something special. If we can't find another Gilchrist at least another Oldfield to keep to the spinners in India. Two legends of their craft Gilchrist and Oldfield.
Gilchrist was very much a batsman-keeper - his keeping wasn't good.
> Gilchrist was such a talent that he was great gloveman and a dangerous batsman. He raised the bar for all concerned and now other countries think about putting in a batsman that can fit into some gloves. Gilchrist was something special. If we can't find another Gilchrist at least another Oldfield to keep to the spinners in India. Two legends of their craft Gilchrist and Oldfield.
And in England anyway, we've always liked a keeper who can bat - hence Parks and Knott being picked over possibly better keepers like Taylor.
Les Ames, of course, was the greatest keeper-batsman ever. Just saying.
Mike Gooding
---------------
eusebius
Feb 28, 2013, 10:34:37 AM2/28/13
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batsmen to Ames, but overall you may well be right. Knott did develop
into an excellent keeper, so they lost very little even behind the
wicket by preferring him.
John Hall
Feb 28, 2013, 1:56:47 PM2/28/13
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In article <f077cc02-cafe-433f...@googlegroups.com>,
better keeper, it was only by a very slender margin. Parks wasn't a very
good keeper, of course.
>
>Les Ames, of course, was the greatest keeper-batsman ever. Just
>saying.
At the time, I believe a lot of judges thought that George Duckworth was
the better keeper, though not much use with the bat. But Ames must have
been a pretty good keeper to spin, at least, given the phenomenal number
of catches and stumpings he took off Tich Freeman for Kent.
--
John Hall
"Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong."
Oscar Wilde
Mike Gooding <michael...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>And in England anyway, we've always liked a keeper who can bat
>- hence Parks and Knott being picked over possibly better keepers
>like Taylor.
There wasn't a whole lot wrong with Knott's keeping! If Taylor was the
>And in England anyway, we've always liked a keeper who can bat
>- hence Parks and Knott being picked over possibly better keepers
>like Taylor.
better keeper, it was only by a very slender margin. Parks wasn't a very
good keeper, of course.
>
>Les Ames, of course, was the greatest keeper-batsman ever. Just
>saying.
the better keeper, though not much use with the bat. But Ames must have
been a pretty good keeper to spin, at least, given the phenomenal number
of catches and stumpings he took off Tich Freeman for Kent.
--
John Hall
"Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong."
Oscar Wilde
willsutton
Feb 28, 2013, 8:14:17 PM2/28/13
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Vijay Sharma
Mar 1, 2013, 12:20:08 AM3/1/13
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Who would be the All Time best keeper for each team?
My picks (even given they are not exactly "All Time". I can only go back to the 70s for most countries) -
Aus: Marsh
Eng: Knott (on another day Taylor)
Ind: Kirmani (although Kunderan and Engineer may oust him)
NZ: Ian Smith
Pak: Rashid Latif (more of a classical keeper than Wasim Bari)
SA: Dave Richardson
SL: I am lost
WI: Murray (heart says Dujon though)
My picks (even given they are not exactly "All Time". I can only go back to the 70s for most countries) -
Aus: Marsh
Eng: Knott (on another day Taylor)
Ind: Kirmani (although Kunderan and Engineer may oust him)
NZ: Ian Smith
Pak: Rashid Latif (more of a classical keeper than Wasim Bari)
SA: Dave Richardson
SL: I am lost
WI: Murray (heart says Dujon though)
jzfredricks
Mar 1, 2013, 1:15:04 AM3/1/13
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On Friday, March 1, 2013 3:20:08 PM UTC+10, Vijay Sharma wrote:
> Who would be the All Time best keeper for each team?
Define best.
> Who would be the All Time best keeper for each team?
Best gloveman?
Best when also considering batting skill?
vijay...@my-deja.com
Mar 1, 2013, 1:20:45 AM3/1/13
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On Mar 1, 10:20 am, Vijay Sharma <viz.nirvanam.sha...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Tamhane.
Or Nana Joshi.
Vijay
wrote:
Or Nana Joshi.
Vijay
Vijay Sharma
Mar 1, 2013, 3:36:20 AM3/1/13
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willsutton
Mar 1, 2013, 5:20:23 AM3/1/13
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keeper/batsman ?
jzfredricks
Mar 1, 2013, 5:42:52 AM3/1/13
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On Friday, March 1, 2013 8:20:23 PM UTC+10, willsutton wrote:
> so in picking an all-time best cricket 11 do you pick the best keeper or
> keeper/batsman ?
I'd go for best gloveman. Numbers 1 through 6 will be expected to rack up 750 runs.
> so in picking an all-time best cricket 11 do you pick the best keeper or
> keeper/batsman ?
John Hall
Mar 1, 2013, 5:47:15 AM3/1/13
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In article <51aa3c36-5b3b-49a1...@googlegroups.com>,
I think a lot depends on whether you have a really good all-rounder,
which in an all-time best XI you almost certainly will have. If you
haven't, then picking a keeper who can bat looks more attractive.
which in an all-time best XI you almost certainly will have. If you
haven't, then picking a keeper who can bat looks more attractive.
Mike Gooding
Mar 1, 2013, 6:35:24 AM3/1/13
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On Friday, 1 March 2013 05:20:08 UTC, Vijay Sharma wrote:
> Who would be the All Time best keeper for each team? My picks (even given they are not exactly "All Time". I can only go back to the 70s for most countries) - Aus: Marsh
I'd think Grout or Tallon - both outstanding keepers, and classic number 11 batsmen.
> Who would be the All Time best keeper for each team? My picks (even given they are not exactly "All Time". I can only go back to the 70s for most countries) - Aus: Marsh
Mike Gooding
-------------
patt...@gmail.com
Mar 1, 2013, 2:32:05 PM3/1/13
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Typical of the bias against others they were both 30 before they got the baggy green.
>
>
>
> Mike Gooding
>
> -------------
alvey
Mar 1, 2013, 2:39:36 PM3/1/13
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On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 09:27:56 +0000, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:05:02 -0800 (PST), D Ramapriya
> <d.ram...@gmail.com> tapped the keyboard and brought forth:
>
>>Chakabva
>>De Villiers
>>Dhoni
>>Jayawardene
>>Mushfiquir
>>Prior
>>Ramdin
>>Sarfraz Ahmed
>>Wade
>>Watling
>>
>>Has the cricketing world ever seen a concurrent set of international
>>WKs with lesser 'keeping abilities than these, I wonder?
>
> Possibly not collectively, but Prasanna Jayawardene and Matt Prior
> would definitely be entitled to be very miffed at the implication that
> they aren't Test-standard keepers,
I don't know why they'd be miffed. *Anyone's* a "Test-standard" keeper now.
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:05:02 -0800 (PST), D Ramapriya
> <d.ram...@gmail.com> tapped the keyboard and brought forth:
>
>>Chakabva
>>De Villiers
>>Dhoni
>>Jayawardene
>>Mushfiquir
>>Prior
>>Ramdin
>>Sarfraz Ahmed
>>Wade
>>Watling
>>
>>Has the cricketing world ever seen a concurrent set of international
>>WKs with lesser 'keeping abilities than these, I wonder?
>
> Possibly not collectively, but Prasanna Jayawardene and Matt Prior
> would definitely be entitled to be very miffed at the implication that
> they aren't Test-standard keepers,
alvey
alvey
Mar 1, 2013, 2:51:17 PM3/1/13
to
On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 03:35:24 -0800 (PST), Mike Gooding wrote:
> I'd think Grout or Tallon - both outstanding keepers, and classic number
> 11 batsmen.
You might want to check up on that and then retract.
> I'd think Grout or Tallon - both outstanding keepers, and classic number
> 11 batsmen.
Especially if you ever want to visit Qld and leave alive.
alvey
alvey
Mar 1, 2013, 2:52:31 PM3/1/13
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alvey
Mad Hamish
Mar 1, 2013, 5:49:19 PM3/1/13
to
average in Australia is poor 10 tests av 17.43, vs Aus av 27.00 with 1
100 from 17 innings.
I'm also not sure that considering the balance between bat and ball in
the 30s it wouldn't have been worth picking the better keeper even if
he was Bruce Reid behind the stumps. You really didn't want to give
Bradman a second chance (or Hutton as Aus discovered...)
--
"Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by."
Stuart Adamson 1958-2001
Mad Hamish
Hamish Laws
newsunsp...@iinet.unspamme.net.au
Mad Hamish
Mar 1, 2013, 5:54:51 PM3/1/13
to
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 07:34:37 -0800 (PST), eusebius
<euseb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Feb 28, 10:10 pm, Mike Gooding <michaelgood...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Thursday, 28 February 2013 11:11:05 UTC, **matto** wrote:
>> > Gilchrist was such a talent that he was great gloveman and a dangerous batsman. He raised the bar for all concerned and now other countries think about putting in a batsman that can fit into some gloves. Gilchrist was something special. If we can't find another Gilchrist at least another Oldfield to keep to the spinners in India. Two legends of their craft Gilchrist and Oldfield.
>>
>> Gilchrist was very much a batsman-keeper - his keeping wasn't good.
>>
>> And in England anyway, we've always liked a keeper who can bat - hence Parks and Knott being picked over possibly better keepers like Taylor.
>>
>> Les Ames, of course, was the greatest keeper-batsman ever. Just saying.
>>
>> Mike Gooding
>> ---------------
>
>Gilchrist and Walcott (of course) I am fairly sure were superior as
>batsmen to Ames,
iirc Walcott averaged about 37 as a keeper and something close to 70
<euseb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Feb 28, 10:10 pm, Mike Gooding <michaelgood...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Thursday, 28 February 2013 11:11:05 UTC, **matto** wrote:
>> > Gilchrist was such a talent that he was great gloveman and a dangerous batsman. He raised the bar for all concerned and now other countries think about putting in a batsman that can fit into some gloves. Gilchrist was something special. If we can't find another Gilchrist at least another Oldfield to keep to the spinners in India. Two legends of their craft Gilchrist and Oldfield.
>>
>> Gilchrist was very much a batsman-keeper - his keeping wasn't good.
>>
>> And in England anyway, we've always liked a keeper who can bat - hence Parks and Knott being picked over possibly better keepers like Taylor.
>>
>> Les Ames, of course, was the greatest keeper-batsman ever. Just saying.
>>
>> Mike Gooding
>> ---------------
>
>Gilchrist and Walcott (of course) I am fairly sure were superior as
>batsmen to Ames,
when he wasn't.
(checking it was 40 and 64)
> but overall you may well be right. Knott did develop
>into an excellent keeper, so they lost very little even behind the
>wicket by preferring him.
Andrew B
Mar 1, 2013, 6:57:49 PM3/1/13
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D Ramapriya
Mar 2, 2013, 12:04:36 AM3/2/13
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On Mar 1, 2:20 pm, willsutton <w...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> so in picking an all-time best cricket 11 do you pick the best keeper or
> keeper/batsman ?
If he's also a batter of usefulness, good but a proper gloveman first.
>
> so in picking an all-time best cricket 11 do you pick the best keeper or
> keeper/batsman ?
Anyone who saw Dhoni in the first hour of T2 would agree. Dropped a
straightforward waist-high take off Ashwin which didn't deviate even
an inch and let go for byes a Bhuvneshwar delivery that was down the
leg side by a couple of feet. Both routine takes for a proper 'keeper.
Anyone can have a bad day on the field but Dhoni today has been
laughable.
Ramapriya
willsutton
Mar 2, 2013, 12:06:33 AM3/2/13
to
Mike Gooding
Mar 4, 2013, 7:35:08 AM3/4/13
to newsunsp...@iinet.unspamme.net.au
On Friday, 1 March 2013 22:49:19 UTC, Mad Hamish wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 04:10:21 -0800 (PST), Mike Gooding <michael...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >Les Ames, of course, was the greatest keeper-batsman ever.
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 04:10:21 -0800 (PST), Mike Gooding <michael...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >Les Ames, of course, was the greatest keeper-batsman ever.
> not so sure of that. His average vs Australia isn't great and his average in Australia is poor 10 tests av 17.43, vs Aus av 27.00 with 1 100 from 17 innings. I'm also not sure that considering the balance between bat and ball in the 30s it wouldn't have been worth picking the better keeper even if he was Bruce Reid behind the stumps. You really didn't want to give Bradman a second chance (or Hutton as Aus discovered...) -- "Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by." Stuart Adamson 1958-2001 Mad Hamish Hamish Laws newsunsp...@iinet.unspamme.net.au
Curse you and your facts, Hamish!
Mike Gooding
Mar 4, 2013, 7:38:57 AM3/4/13
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On Friday, 1 March 2013 19:51:17 UTC, alvey wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 03:35:24 -0800 (PST), Mike Gooding wrote: > I'd think Grout or Tallon - both outstanding keepers, and classic number > 11 batsmen. You might want to check up on that and then retract. Especially if you ever want to visit Qld and leave alive. alvey
I did live in Briz for a few years. Made sure never to mention Tallon or Grout in anything other than glowing terms.
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 03:35:24 -0800 (PST), Mike Gooding wrote: > I'd think Grout or Tallon - both outstanding keepers, and classic number > 11 batsmen. You might want to check up on that and then retract. Especially if you ever want to visit Qld and leave alive. alvey
Anyway, Tallon for my all-time Aus XI. If Vic, Lindsay, Don, Neil, AB and Nugget can't do the business then it's unlikely Gilly would. IMO, of course.
Mike Gooding
--------------
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