Fans of BCCI and Experts on Contracts a Query for You
arahim
world cup justify the IPL contract position of the franchises and the
BCCI. Now the ICC has given governments unilateral power to act to
stop players but the boards do not have such power. What was written
in these IPL contracts that allowed the franchises first of all to on
an ad hoc basis cancel or suspend the contracts. Second what were the
rights granted to the franchises to act unilaterally in the contracts.
Third if the basis of the suspensions and cancellations was that the
matches will be in India then once the matches moved why did those
suspensions and cancellations not become nullified. The issue is that
no player can take on the BCCI in the courts. It will financially
finish them off since no one can litigate as long as the BCCI and
knowing its vindictive nature players who resort to legal measures
will not be awarded any further contracts. Even the ICL, which had a
lot of money, could not sustain a battle against the BCCI. That does
not make BCCIs position correct. It just makes it a monster.
Next is the removal of the PCB team from the Champions League again on
an ad hoc basis without consultation of any of the other partners.
This was not purely invitational. BCCI got the votes against ICL and
got the ICL players banned on the basis that these teams will play in
the Champions League. As soon as the votes were in and ICL broken the
PCB team was excluded from the Champions League. Let us even consider
the case that this was purely invitational even then once invited PCB
vacated that period of time on the calendar for the benefit of BCCI.
It could have had other activities during that time but some of those
opportunities were lost. This should result in the BCCI having to pay
compensatory damages but again it is so big and a ghunda that it
becomes very hard to counter it.
http://voiceandview.blogspot.com/2009/06/fans-of-bcci-and-experts-on-contracts.html
Mohan
> Can you tell us how those of you who support the BCCI position on the
> world cup justify the IPL contract position of the franchises and the
> BCCI. Now the ICC has given governments unilateral power to act to
> stop players but the boards do not have such power. What was written
> in these IPL contracts that allowed the franchises first of all to on
> an ad hoc basis cancel or suspend the contracts.
What has ICC got to do with IPL contracts between the franchises and
the players? As for what is in those contracts - how about franchises
have the right to cancel the player's contract if the player is not
able to participate in the matches for whatever reason?
> Second what were the
> rights granted to the franchises to act unilaterally in the contracts.
> Third if the basis of the suspensions and cancellations was that the
> matches will be in India then once the matches moved why did those
> suspensions and cancellations not become nullified.
Because they had already made alternate arrangements, perhaps?
> The issue is that
> no player can take on the BCCI in the courts. It will financially
> finish them off since no one can litigate as long as the BCCI and
> knowing its vindictive nature players who resort to legal measures
> will not be awarded any further contracts. Even the ICL, which had a
> lot of money, could not sustain a battle against the BCCI. That does
> not make BCCIs position correct. It just makes it a monster.
Yet the players are hankering after money from the same monster. See
Younis' latest statement that you quoted elsewhere.
> Next is the removal of the PCB team from the Champions League again on
> an ad hoc basis without consultation of any of the other partners.
PCB has no cause to complain, having survived on Indian money all
these years:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/3495720.stm
PCB saved by India windfall
"The money generated from this series has rescued us from bankruptcy.
We have never earned so much from a series before" a PCB spokesman
told the BBC sport website.
Mohan
arahim
> On Jun 30, 6:35 am, arahim <arahim_ara...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Can you tell us how those of you who support the BCCI position on the
> > world cup justify the IPL contract position of the franchises and the
> > BCCI. Now the ICC has given governments unilateral power to act to
> > stop players but the boards do not have such power. What was written
> > in these IPL contracts that allowed the franchises first of all to on
> > an ad hoc basis cancel or suspend the contracts.
>
> What has ICC got to do with IPL contracts between the franchises and
> the players? As for what is in those contracts - how about franchises
> have the right to cancel the player's contract if the player is not
> able to participate in the matches for whatever reason?
>
ICC still governs issues between boards. Just like it was the ICC
which came back and told the boards to ban ICL players.
> > Second what were the
> > rights granted to the franchises to act unilaterally in the contracts.
> > Third if the basis of the suspensions and cancellations was that the
> > matches will be in India then once the matches moved why did those
> > suspensions and cancellations not become nullified.
>
> Because they had already made alternate arrangements, perhaps?
>
No Kaif and many others players were sent back very late. In fact it
was a joke here how many players were being carried.
> > The issue is that
> > no player can take on the BCCI in the courts. It will financially
> > finish them off since no one can litigate as long as the BCCI and
> > knowing its vindictive nature players who resort to legal measures
> > will not be awarded any further contracts. Even the ICL, which had a
> > lot of money, could not sustain a battle against the BCCI. That does
> > not make BCCIs position correct. It just makes it a monster.
>
> Yet the players are hankering after money from the same monster. See
> Younis' latest statement that you quoted elsewhere.
>
He is not even that interested himself but I think the message he gave
to the players was a good one: Do not sell yourselves short.
> > Next is the removal of the PCB team from the Champions League again on
> > an ad hoc basis without consultation of any of the other partners.
>
> PCB has no cause to complain, having survived on Indian money all
> these years:
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/3495720.stm
> PCB saved by India windfall
>
> "The money generated from this series has rescued us from bankruptcy.
> We have never earned so much from a series before" a PCB spokesman
> told the BBC sport website.
>
And BCCI made no money? It is likely that it made even more. It was a
mutually beneficial venture.
And if you mean these lines then it worked both ways too.
"Under the current scheme of things the hosting board makes all the
money, while the visitors actually incur lots of expenses," he said.
> Mohan
arahim
Why does this great benefactor now have a problem with a few matches
in UAE. Its not as if it will lose anything. Oh yeah right "the lotion
of constipation", as George would say and some cricket dollars.
> Mohan
RSC Poster
> world cup justify the IPL contract position of the franchises and the
> BCCI. Now the ICC has given governments unilateral power to act to
> stop players
Eh? Governments have powers of their own over the movement of their
citizens and these don't need to be given by the ICC.
> but the boards do not have such power.
Well, actually they do. The Australian Board in the seventies banned
those players who signed on with Packer. The PCB or any other board,
should it desire, can well ban IPL players.
> What was written
> in these IPL contracts that allowed the franchises first of all to on
> an ad hoc basis cancel or suspend the contracts.
There is nothing ad-hoc about this. However, if a player cannot commit
for a season, can very well have his contract cancelled. I am sure
that in the business you run you pay all those employees who don't
show up, but others might well refuse to do so.
> Second what were the
> rights granted to the franchises to act unilaterally in the contracts.
There's nothing unilateral about a contract. Both parties agree to it.
If one has a problem, he can well go to the arbitration/mediation
authorities.
> Third if the basis of the suspensions and cancellations was that the
> matches will be in India
No, the basis was that the Pakistan Government announced that they
wouldn't allow their players to travel to India. Hence the players
were unable to participate for an entire season and were in breach of
contract. In such circumstances, the franchises have the right to
cancel the contract or retain it. It's entirely up to them.
> then once the matches moved why did those
> suspensions and cancellations not become nullified.
Too late. Alternate arrangements have been made.
> The issue is that
> no player can take on the BCCI in the courts. It will financially
> finish them off since no one can litigate as long as the BCCI and
> knowing its vindictive nature players who resort to legal measures
> will not be awarded any further contracts.
Not at all true. Azhar and Jadeja managed it without the support of
any external agency. Particularly if the PCB supports its players,
they can very well take on the IPL authorities in court.
> Even the ICL, which had a
> lot of money, could not sustain a battle against the BCCI.
That's a battle in the marketplace. There was no litigation involved.
Their matches were not popular and they were bleeding money.
> That does
> not make BCCIs position correct.
No, it doesn't. However, there are a number of other reasons which
make its position correct.
> It just makes it a monster.
The PCB and all Pakistan players should refuse to participate in any
events organised by the BCCI.
> Next is the removal of the PCB team from the Champions League again on
> an ad hoc basis without consultation of any of the other partners.
The Pakistan Government had banned its players from travelling to
India. The tournament is to be held in India. How can the Sialkot
Stallions team be included in the Champions league?
> This was not purely invitational. BCCI got the votes against ICL and
> got the ICL players banned on the basis that these teams will play in
> the Champions League. As soon as the votes were in and ICL broken the
> PCB team was excluded from the Champions League.
ICL players were banned in 2007. The Champions league is in 2009.
What's the connection?
> Let us even consider
> the case that this was purely invitational even then once invited PCB
> vacated that period of time on the calendar for the benefit of BCCI.
> It could have had other activities during that time but some of those
> opportunities were lost. This should result in the BCCI having to pay
> compensatory damages but again it is so big and a ghunda that it
> becomes very hard to counter it.
The Pakistan Government stopped its players from travelling. Why
doesn't the PCB go after its Government?
Regards,
Jayen
Mohan
> > "The money generated from this series has rescued us from bankruptcy.
> > We have never earned so much from a series before" a PCB spokesman
> > told the BBC sport website.
>
> And BCCI made no money? It is likely that it made even more. It was a
> mutually beneficial venture.
>
> And if you mean these lines then it worked both ways too.
> "Under the current scheme of things the hosting board makes all the
> money, while the visitors actually incur lots of expenses," he said.
Does BCCI make as much money from Pakistan market as PCB makes from
Indian market?
Mohan
arahim
When Pakistan play in India I am sure BCCI make a lot more than PCB
makes when India plays in Pakistan. Thus BCCI makes a lot more money
of the PCB team.
> Mohan
Mohan
Not really. Since most of the money is from television and there is no
significant difference in timings, the money earned by BCCI and PCB
for their respective India-Pakistan matches shouldn't be much
different. However, what *is* different is that BCCI can make the same
money by inviting some other team (or as we have found over last two
years, by organizing their own tournament), but PCB can make that kind
of money only by inviting the BCCI team.
Mohan
arahim
The Indian market is much bigger and it probably generates a lot more
BCCI "specific" cash. And so what if BCCI makes more money with other
tours. Good for it.
> Mohan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mohan
I don't know what you mean. Yes, there is some amount of sponsorship
money from logos on shirts, etc. but other than that PCB or BCCSL make
as much money by hosting Indian team as BCCI does by hosting Pakistan
or Sri Lanka team.
> And so what if BCCI makes more money with other
> tours. Good for it.
Point is PCB is dependent on BCCI and not the other way round. So
having benefited from that dependence, they are in no position to
complain now.
Mohan
arahim
PCB survived through the three long periods when there were no tours
between Pakistan and India. Definitely in two of those periods it had
a far superior team to India. The third time not so much. There is
another at least ten year period coming with the BCCIs release of its
FTP. Let's see how it goes this time? If they wish to ban the players
from IPL fine but I think they will then even lose the very very thin
ice they stand on legally of keeping them away from other leagues.
arahim
You have some weird notions. BCCI also benefited from that
relationship. It was not doing it out of the kindness of its heart.
PCB also often was the strongest adversary to MCC providing BCCI the
benefits.
arahim
Also as bad as PCBs domestic record has been in international cricket
it was always the strongest voice for equality of all members and was
the vociferous defender of the weaker members. BCCI has, and this may
give Holmans some relief but may be not considering his recent
overtures to BCCI, after reaching its "peak" acted more savagely than
the MCC did. MCC used it power but it was still subtle enough (not
very but compared to BCCI). The sad part is that BCCI had seen the
other side and instead of acting with the spirit of republicanism has
acted more as a butcher.
>
> > Mohan- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Mohan
Actually, they have been way too soft, if you ask me. Should have
taken complete control of world cricket, by now.
Mohan
arahim
Ah the one ring to rule it all:)
Dramatis Personae
The BCCI The Dark Lord Sauron
The MCC Saruman the White
PCB The Hobbits
Lalit Modi Gollum (My precious)
ICC Nasquool
Mani Gandalf the Gray
Ejaz Butt Samwise
Younis Khan Aragorn
Afridi Legolas
Pawar The Orc commander
Frodo Mohammad Aamer
Nirvanam
Arahim,
You have lost it man! Nothing can come out from blaming others for
your problems...all issues you are bringing up are just demonstrating
how blind you are to reality and the deep sense of denial plaguing
your mind. To a certain extent we can term this anti-BCCI and anti-
India sentiment on jealousy, sometimes they could even be for right
reasons. Focus your energies on positive things and things that make a
difference to Pakistan. BCCI bashing is not gonna help your country in
any way. Even if you prove that BCCI has conspired to fuck up Pakistan
cricket, and BCCI gets punished for it, HOW DOES IT CHANGE WHAT IS
HAPPENING IN PAKISTAN? How does it change that your day-to-day life is
being controlled by Taliban? How does it change the fact that Pakistan
is a war-torn, miserable country where no team is willing to play
cricket?
Channel your energies to something else, something more meaningful
than hate.
Don speaks the truth
No he has not.
> Nothing can come out from blaming others for
> your problems..
as in Indians always blaming pakistan for all their problems?
>.all issues you are bringing up are just demonstrating
> how blind you are to reality and the deep sense of denial plaguing
> your mind.
its greedy bcci which is in denial of being a corrupt body.
> To a certain extent we can term this anti-BCCI
no harm in being against the evil
> and anti-
> India sentiment on jealousy,
what is there to be jealous of india? india and pakistan have same
amount of poverty.
> sometimes they could even be for right
> reasons. Focus your energies on positive things and things that make a
> difference to Pakistan. BCCI bashing is not gonna help your country in
> any way.
I want to do BCCI bashing. So i would thank rahim to start this
thread.
> Even if you prove that BCCI has conspired to fuck up Pakistan
> cricket, and BCCI gets punished for it, HOW DOES IT CHANGE WHAT IS
> HAPPENING IN PAKISTAN? How does it change that your day-to-day life is
> being controlled by Taliban? How does it change the fact that Pakistan
> is a war-torn, miserable country where no team is willing to play
> cricket?
Now who is deviating from cricket and indulging in Pak bashing? This
attitude of Indians has to go, its high time now and Advani and his
chaddi chaap losers have also lost elections twice. High time to get
rid of this ugly paki bashing triggered by BJP and co and acknowledge
the problems pakistan are going through internally including terrorism
in its own soil.
If BCCI was a real friend of PCB, it would have allowed tours of Aus/
NZ etc scheduled for Pakistan to be held in India. But its England
which came to
Pak's help. So its bCCI which has back bitten PCB after all its
support against "white" boards.
> Channel your energies to something else, something more meaningful
> than hate.
Thats exactly what you need to practice too seeing your above hate
messages for Pakistan.
Don [sorry had to be on point there Nirvanam]
RSC Poster
wrote:
<snip>
>
> If BCCI was a real friend of PCB, it would have allowed tours of Aus/
> NZ etc scheduled for Pakistan to be held in India. But its England
> which came to
> Pak's help. So its bCCI which has back bitten PCB after all its
> support against "white" boards.
>
Do you know that Pakistani players are banned by their government from
travelling to India? How can the BCCI help here?
Besides, after the Mumbai and Lahore attacks, there might be some risk
of a terrorist strike when it comes to Pakistani matches being held in
India.
Regards,
Jayen
<snip>
Don speaks the truth
> On Jul 1, 1:18 am, Don speaks the truth <don200...@rediffmail.com>
> wrote:
> <snip>
>
>
>
> > If BCCI was a real friend of PCB, it would have allowed tours of Aus/
> > NZ etc scheduled for Pakistan to be held in India. But its England
> > which came to
> > Pak's help. So its bCCI which has back bitten PCB after all its
> > support against "white" boards.
>
> Do you know that Pakistani players are banned by their government from
> travelling to India? How can the BCCI help here?
Thats exactly where the problem lies. If BCCI was competent it would
have worked out with the Govt of India to separate politics from
cricket.
> Besides, after the Mumbai and Lahore attacks, there might be some risk
> of a terrorist strike when it comes to Pakistani matches being held in
> India.
Risk of terrorism is everywhere, even in England. For that, you can't
just stop playing cricket.
Don
>
> Regards,
> Jayen
> <snip>
RSC Poster
wrote:
> On Jul 1, 9:42 am, RSC Poster <rsc_pos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 1, 1:18 am, Don speaks the truth <don200...@rediffmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > <snip>
>
> > > If BCCI was a real friend of PCB, it would have allowed tours of Aus/
> > > NZ etc scheduled for Pakistan to be held in India. But its England
> > > which came to
> > > Pak's help. So its bCCI which has back bitten PCB after all its
> > > support against "white" boards.
>
> > Do you know that Pakistani players are banned by their government from
> > travelling to India? How can the BCCI help here?
>
> Thats exactly where the problem lies. If BCCI was competent it would
> have worked out with the Govt of India to separate politics from
> cricket.
>
Once again. What would the BCCI and the Govt. of India do to prevent
the Pakistani Govt. from banning the travel of their players to India?
> > Besides, after the Mumbai and Lahore attacks, there might be some risk
> > of a terrorist strike when it comes to Pakistani matches being held in
> > India.
>
> Risk of terrorism is everywhere, even in England. For that, you can't
> just stop playing cricket.
>
Are you suggesting that Australia tour Pakistan now?
Regards,
Jayen
Nirvanam
Don, you have probably misinterpreted my message. I too am not a fan
of BCCI like you and like many others in the world. I have at no point
said BCCI is right. I am only pointing to Arahim that most of his
messages in the recent past are just anti-BCCI without giving due
recognition to the internal situation of Pakistan. I wasn't pointing
to the internal situation of Pakistan as an insult or as some kinda
Pakistan bashing. I pointed to it because that is where the focus
should be...cricket is nothing compared to life. Even if BCCI and all
other Boards agree to tour Pakistan, it does not end the Taliban in
Pakistan. Realistically speaking, sport is secondary given the current
situation in Pakistan...save the souls first because if Taliban do
take over then you can be rest assured Pakistan will never play any
sport.
By the way, I am no BJP supporter...I consider it an insult to my
philosophies when you put me in the BJP-Advani bracket, and also Sonia-
Congress bracket. Another thing, Pakistan is the team I support when
India is not playing. I supported Pakistan through out my childhood
when people around me used to hate Pakistan (in the 80s). I have
nothing against Pakistan cricket.
Don speaks the truth
No, your point was that there could be risk of Paki matches being held
in India...if India is unsafe so is England....that dosen't mean u
stop playing cricket in these countries...BCCI was very ungrateful in
not faciliating some pakistan matches in india...the least it could
have done to pay back PCB for its support to BCCI in numerous
issues...but as i said before BCCI is an evil and selfish body which
dosen't have the balls to convince even its own Govt.
Don
Don speaks the truth
Got your point. But i think Rahim is not wrong in being anti BCCI. I
think internal situation of pakistan has nothing to do with BCCI. If
BCCI had the balls, it would have helped PCB by convincing Indian Govt
to faciliatate some Pakistani matches in India which England now is
doing.
> I wasn't pointing
> to the internal situation of Pakistan as an insult or as some kinda
> Pakistan bashing. I pointed to it because that is where the focus
> should be...cricket is nothing compared to life.
Yes but cricket must keep going on irrespective of the real life
situation.
BCCI should have the balls to get back Pakistanis in IPL(when they
wanted
them they kneeled before PCB and Lankan board to allow their players
to
even postpone an international series for IPL)...now that IPL is a hit
they are acting against Paki players coz of some attack by a bunch of
terror goons from Pakistan who are in no way related to Pakistani
cricketers. I find it another of those jackass behaviours of BCCI as
its become too arrogant and pompous not to mention bloated with
corrupt money. Rahim is right in asking for Paki players to be
reinducted into IPL.
> Even if BCCI and all
> other Boards agree to tour Pakistan, it does not end the Taliban in
> Pakistan.
We are not here to solve political issues....we are here to play and
support cricket. Its high time BCCI separates Cricket from politics.
The question of touring Pakistan should not be there coz of genuine
safety reasons there and not because of some attack by a bunch of
terror outfits from Pakistan on Indian soil. Thats just a lame excuse
to cut off ties with Pakistani cricketers all of whom are good boys
according to me.
> Realistically speaking, sport is secondary given the current
> situation in Pakistan...save the souls first because if Taliban do
> take over then you can be rest assured Pakistan will never play any
> sport.
Thats where i disagree with you. For all your good intentions, you are
just mixing up Cricket and Politics. Do you mean to say things were
safe in Pak in 2006 when India last toured there? Its not coz of
Taliban but some lame excuse like Mumbai attack which is preventing
India from touring Pakistan.Or else as Rahim said Indian cricket board
earns equally well as PCB when India tours Pak and BCCI would leave no
stone unturned to tour Pak but in the prevalant situation it just
dosen'y
have the guts to convince the Govt. Pakistan has suffered equally or
more to India from terror attacks so we can't blame Pakistan as a
whole for making it unsafe for playing sports.
> By the way, I am no BJP supporter...I consider it an insult to my
> philosophies when you put me in the BJP-Advani bracket, and also Sonia-
> Congress bracket. Another thing, Pakistan is the team I support when
> India is not playing. I supported Pakistan through out my childhood
> when people around me used to hate Pakistan (in the 80s). I have
> nothing against Pakistan cricket.
Sorry if you thought that i bracketed you with BJP. I just wanted to
make you aware of the Paki bashing in your post.
Don
Nirvanam
Oh no, my friend, I have never stated anything to the effect of "your
point was that there could be risk of Paki matches being held in
India".
Your next point about India unsafe and England unsafe is not what we
are discussing. We are looking at Pakistan's scenario and how Pakistan
is at war right now, plus the loss in confidence on PCB for delivering
on their promises.
Your third point about "BCCI was very ungrateful in not faciliating
some pakistan matches in india"..are you referring to the World Cup
matches or are you referring to general Pakistan's "host" tournaments?
If it is the latter then please understand that no other Board
"approached" PCB to host their matches, PCB approached other boards
like Dubai and ECB. Even if it is not so, then how is BCCI being "bad"
here? All other neighbors of Pak like SL, Ban, and even other boards
like WI, SA, Aus, NZ have not offered Pak to host their matches,
right?
BCCI is evil and all that is crap...understand this they are in a
business they will behave like any other corporation..they are not
doing social service here. They will develop cricket in India only for
sustaining profits otherwise there is no need to develop cricket for
the sake of cricket. At the same time, please don't forget that these
evil BCCI goons were probably the highest rewarders in terms of money
to each and every Olympic medal winner of India. Did they need to do
it? No! But they still did it. BCCI like any other corporation is made
up of human beings so it also will have the same advantages/
disadvantages of any other corporation.
Your point on BCCI doesn't have the balls to convince its own Govt?
What are you referring to..IPL? Understand the Govt put its foot down
in the IPL case, IPL team put in front of them a few options,
Chidambaram flatly rejected everything. If you are referring to
convincing Govt to send Indian players to Pakistan to play
Pakistan..then BCCI did the RIGHT thing. Immediately after 26/11
cricket or for that matter any sport with Pakistan will have to take
back seat and allow Govt to decide whether to go to or invite Pakistan
or not. Playing cricket against Pakistan is not a priority for me or
for the majority of Indians. We want ISI, and the Pakistan Army to
STOP funding jihadi terrorists.
Nirvanam
Sorry, so this message of yours only after responding to your previous
one
Don speaks the truth
I was responding to Jayen.
> Your next point about India unsafe and England unsafe is not what we
> are discussing. We are looking at Pakistan's scenario and how Pakistan
> is at war right now, plus the loss in confidence on PCB for delivering
> on their promises.
PCB is not to blame for war in Pakistan.
> Your third point about "BCCI was very ungrateful in not faciliating
> some pakistan matches in india"..are you referring to the World Cup
> matches or are you referring to general Pakistan's "host" tournaments?
> If it is the latter then please understand that no other Board
> "approached" PCB to host their matches, PCB approached other boards
> like Dubai and ECB. Even if it is not so, then how is BCCI being "bad"
> here? All other neighbors of Pak like SL, Ban, and even other boards
> like WI, SA, Aus, NZ have not offered Pak to host their matches,
> right?
PCB has supported BCCI in lot of scandals and controversies involving
Indian players the latest being the Fucknor-Crapson issue in Aus....we
must help our neighbouring cricket board in times of distress....give
love and take love....that should be the policy of BCCI in general. I
don't see the giving part in them even 1%.
> BCCI is evil and all that is crap...understand this they are in a
> business they will behave like any other corporation..they are not
> doing social service here. They will develop cricket in India only for
> sustaining profits otherwise there is no need to develop cricket for
> the sake of cricket. At the same time, please don't forget that these
> evil BCCI goons were probably the highest rewarders in terms of money
> to each and every Olympic medal winner of India. Did they need to do
> it? No! But they still did it. BCCI like any other corporation is made
> up of human beings so it also will have the same advantages/
> disadvantages of any other corporation.
If BCCI is a corporation, then wtf it is doing pretending to develop
India's cricket...let it separate itself into a publicly listed
company while the development of Indian cricket goes into the hands of
a monotonopus body of former Indian cricketers...
> Your point on BCCI doesn't have the balls to convince its own Govt?
> What are you referring to..IPL? Understand the Govt put its foot down
> in the IPL case, IPL team put in front of them a few options,
> Chidambaram flatly rejected everything. If you are referring to
> convincing Govt to send Indian players to Pakistan to play
> Pakistan..then BCCI did the RIGHT thing.
Thats how it is just promoting the mixing of Indian sports and
politics. BCCI should be able to convince Indian Govt that
irrespective of attack on India, cricket on both sides has nothing to
do with it. That would be the best way to face and defeat
terrorism..not use it as a political weapon and instead not be scared
of it and continue with normal life.
> Immediately after 26/11
> cricket or for that matter any sport with Pakistan will have to take
> back seat and allow Govt to decide whether to go to or invite Pakistan
> or not. Playing cricket against Pakistan is not a priority for me or
> for the majority of Indians.
Its not a priority granted. Neither is permanantly isolating Pakistan
cricket a solution for Indian cricket. We should make a clear
distinction between Indian cricket and politics. Not having relations
with Pakistan or building confidence measures with them is a clear
political thing....similarly playing cricket with pakistan in spite of
Govt not willing to shake hands with Pakistan should be a cricketing
thing.
> We want ISI, and the Pakistan Army to
> STOP funding jihadi terrorists
There you go again.....with this hackneyed view you are just doing
what the terrorists exactly want you to do...ie. stop your normal
life.
Don
.- Hide quoted text -
arahim
I will repeat your two lines for contrast here.
"Do you know that Pakistani players are banned by their government
from
travelling to India?"
and
"Besides, after the Mumbai and Lahore attacks, there might be some
risk
of a terrorist strike when it comes to Pakistani matches being held in
India."
In essence you are saying that the government's stance is then
correct. Now I am just taking your words. This is not my stance before
Nirvanam jumps in with a, b, c, d, ...,z options none of which have
anything to do with what was under discussion:)
If this in your opinion is also the BCCI fear then what would then
happen to Pakistan's games moved to India? Do all those games then
move to Sri Lanka and Bangladesh? What happens if Pakistan reaches the
semifinal in India or it reaches the final (Low chance but a
possibility)? Do you or the BCCI consider the venues not viable then
and the matches therefore be moved elsewhere?
> Regards,
> Jayen
> <snip>
arahim
In case you do not believe me:) here is a post by me in February
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.cricket/msg/5e50734b14b68c37?hl=en
> Nirvanam jumps in with a, b, c, d, ...,z options none of which have
> anything to do with what was under discussion:)
>
> If this in your opinion is also the BCCI fear then what would then
> happen to Pakistan's games moved to India? Do all those games then
> move to Sri Lanka and Bangladesh? What happens if Pakistan reaches the
> semifinal in India or it reaches the final (Low chance but a
> possibility)? Do you or the BCCI consider the venues not viable then
> and the matches therefore be moved elsewhere?
>
>
>
> > Regards,
> > Jayen
> > <snip>- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
RSC Poster
I don't now, and have never, commented about the Pakistan ban on their
players travelling to India. They are perfectly at liberty to do so.
Once they have done so, it is very strange for people to continuously
whine on this forum about the evil BCCI which excludes Pakistan teams
from tournaments which are held in India.
>
> If this in your opinion is also the BCCI fear then what would then
> happen to Pakistan's games moved to India? Do all those games then
> move to Sri Lanka and Bangladesh? What happens if Pakistan reaches the
> semifinal in India or it reaches the final (Low chance but a
> possibility)?
Well, yes, there's no point in moving Pakistan games to India if the
ban persists. Hold them in Sri Lanka or Bangladesh. If the ban is
lifted by then, it's a different matter. So what, if any, is your
point?
> Do you or the BCCI consider the venues not viable then
> and the matches therefore be moved elsewhere?
>
See above.
These seem to be obvious points to me, ones with no complexity.
Regards,
Jayen
RSC Poster
<snip>
> > In essence you are saying that the government's stance is then
> > correct. Now I am just taking your words. This is not my stance before
>
> In case you do not believe me:) here is a post by me in February
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.cricket/msg/5e50734b14b68c37...
>
OK, so you feel that the Pakistan Govt. shouldn't have banned its
players from travelling to India. Bully for you. I just don't happen
to care enough to have a position on this, that's all.
Regards,
Jayen
<snip>
arahim
Its not a "ban". Its based on security conditions prevailing at the
time.
> Regards,
> Jayen- Hide quoted text -
RSC Poster
Whatever. Bottom line is that the Pakistan players cannot travel to
India.
Regards,
Jayen
arahim
Not true.
RSC Poster
> On Jul 1, 10:32 pm, RSC Poster <rsc_pos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> > Whatever. Bottom line is that the Pakistan players cannot travel to
> > India.
>
> Not true.
>
Explain this, please. If the IPL 2009 had been held in India, would
Pakistan players have been allowed by their Govt. to participate?
Regards,
Jayen
arahim
No (and it was not held in India), but your above statement is not
true. Anyway, All I was commenting on were your two statements that
you seem to agree with their concerns as stated by them.
> Regards,
> Jayen
RSC Poster
> On Jul 1, 10:52 pm, RSC Poster <rsc_pos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 2, 10:37 am, arahim <arahim_ara...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 1, 10:32 pm, RSC Poster <rsc_pos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > <snip>
>
> > > > Whatever. Bottom line is that the Pakistan players cannot travel to
> > > > India.
>
> > > Not true.
>
> > Explain this, please. If the IPL 2009 had been held in India, would
> > Pakistan players have been allowed by their Govt. to participate?
>
> No
Here endeth the lesson.
> (and it was not held in India),
I am aware of this.
> but your above statement is not
> true.
Why isn't it correct?
> Anyway, All I was commenting on were your two statements that
> you seem to agree with their concerns as stated by them.
>
Hope this clarifies that I have not agreed or disagreed with their
concern. I just accepted that they don't want to send their players
and that's it.
Regards,
Jayen
arahim
Your statement:
"Besides, after the Mumbai and Lahore attacks, there might be some
risk
of a terrorist strike when it comes to Pakistani matches being held
in
India."
Theirs
"The sports ministry said it would give clearance but the foreign
ministry has told us it would not be advisable to send players to
India at this time," Altaf said.
Note it is only for "this time". And why did they advise so? because
of the government's concerns over security.
Perhaps the difference is that you think players involving Pakistani
players are not at risk but the Pakistani matches are. May be that's
it. So be it.
arahim
Who are these people whining on this forum about the evil BCCI which
excludes Pakistan teams
from tournaments which are held in India and for which the Pakistan
government has advised travel against?
>
>
> > If this in your opinion is also the BCCI fear then what would then
> > happen to Pakistan's games moved to India? Do all those games then
> > move to Sri Lanka and Bangladesh? What happens if Pakistan reaches the
> > semifinal in India or it reaches the final (Low chance but a
> > possibility)?
>
> Well, yes, there's no point in moving Pakistan games to India if the
> ban persists. Hold them in Sri Lanka or Bangladesh. If the ban is
> lifted by then, it's a different matter. So what, if any, is your
> point?
>
> > Do you or the BCCI consider the venues not viable then
> > and the matches therefore be moved elsewhere?
>
> See above.
>
> These seem to be obvious points to me, ones with no complexity.
>
> Regards,
> Jayen- Hide quoted text -
RSC Poster
> On Jul 1, 11:26 pm, RSC Poster <rsc_pos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
<snip>
>
> > > Anyway, All I was commenting on were your two statements that
> > > you seem to agree with their concerns as stated by them.
>
> > Hope this clarifies that I have not agreed or disagreed with their
> > concern. I just accepted that they don't want to send their players
> > and that's it.
>
> Your statement:
> "Besides, after the Mumbai and Lahore attacks, there might be some
> risk
> of a terrorist strike when it comes to Pakistani matches being held
> in
> India."
>
That was in this post - http://groups.google.co.in/group/rec.sport.cricket/msg/6db99ea465ac2bd1
It referred to allowing AUSvPAK or NZvPAK matches to be played in
India.
> Theirs
> "The sports ministry said it would give clearance but the foreign
> ministry has told us it would not be advisable to send players to
> India at this time," Altaf said.
>
> Note it is only for "this time". And why did they advise so? because
> of the government's concerns over security.
Of course it's because of security.
>
> Perhaps the difference is that you think players involving Pakistani
> players are not at risk but the Pakistani matches are. May be that's
> it. So be it.
>
What the hell are you on about? You seem to think that you have caught
me committing seven different types of logical errors in the same
sentence, but you sound like Dechucka on benzedrine.
Regards,
Jayen
RSC Poster
> On Jul 1, 9:37 pm, RSC Poster <rsc_pos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't now, and have never, commented about the Pakistan ban on their
> > players travelling to India. They are perfectly at liberty to do so.
> > Once they have done so, it is very strange for people to continuously
> > whine on this forum about the evil BCCI which excludes Pakistan teams
> > from tournaments which are held in India.
>
> Who are these people whining on this forum about the evil BCCI which
> excludes Pakistan teams
> from tournaments which are held in India and for which the Pakistan
> government has advised travel against?
>
I'll give you three guesses. Try.
Regards,
Jayen