Jaffa: Beautiful Cruelty?
arahim
'jaffa', an unplayable delivery that has left the dictionary editors
stumped. In many cases, the OED is unable to tell how a word was
invented. It is seeking assistance from people who might claim to have
been present when the musical description 'ska' was introduced into
british-Jamaican clubs. The dictionary is certain that gentlemen
required 'something for the weekend' before 1990 but "finding
documentary evidence has proved unusually difficult".
(The Times, 10 June 2005)
http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/Database/language.html#OED
Any one know what the results of this search were or what does OED
have to say on it now.
Everything from oranges to cakes have been discussed.
John Hall mentioned that Trevor Bailey has used this term for a long
time. What is the earliest known usage of this term in cricket or at
least Bailey's earliest usage.
I would like to make a suggestion though this may be completely and
utterly wrong and may easily be shown that way by the historical usage
but it fits in very nicely and on the face of it sounds plausible
(though historical facts may clearly show that this origin is
impossible). So throwing out a wild suggestion (Only since other Urdu
terms have come into usage in cricket). So with no shred of evidence
here is the suggestion.
In Urdu jaffa means cruelty. In Urdu poetry it is commonly used in the
sense of a "beautiful cruelty".
http://voiceandview.blogspot.com/2009/12/jaffa-beautiful-cruelty.html
arahim
> Richie Benaud has been asked to date the first cricketing usage of the
> 'jaffa', an unplayable delivery that has left the dictionary editors
> stumped. In many cases, the OED is unable to tell how a word was
> invented. It is seeking assistance from people who might claim to have
> been present when the musical description 'ska' was introduced into
> british-Jamaican clubs. The dictionary is certain that gentlemen
> required 'something for the weekend' before 1990 but "finding
> documentary evidence has proved unusually difficult".
>
>
> Any one know what the results of this search were or what does OED
> have to say on it now.
> Everything from oranges to cakes have been discussed.
>
> John Hall mentioned that Trevor Bailey has used this term for a long
> time. What is the earliest known usage of this term in cricket or at
> least Bailey's earliest usage.
>
> I would like to make a suggestion though this may be completely and
> utterly wrong and may easily be shown that way by the historical usage
> but it fits in very nicely and on the face of it sounds plausible
> (though historical facts may clearly show that this origin is
> impossible). So throwing out a wild suggestion (Only since other Urdu
> terms have come into usage in cricket). So with no shred of evidence
> here is the suggestion.
>
> In Urdu jaffa means cruelty. In Urdu poetry it is commonly used in the
> sense of a "beautiful cruelty".
>
> http://voiceandview.blogspot.com/2009/12/jaffa-beautiful-cruelty.html
As an example of the usage:
1. Kabhi Naikki Bhi Uss Kay Jee Mai'n Gar Aa Jaaye Hay Mujh Say
Jaffa'ain Kar Kay Apni Yaad Sharma Jaaye Hay Mujh Say
Ghalib
Jaffa'ain is the plural of Jaffa
2."MEIN HOUN MUSHTAQ-E-JAFFA, MUJHE PE JAFFA AUR SAHEE...."
Ghalib
translation: I am eager for cruelty (to be done to me), and await
further cruelty.
Suresh K S
> In Urdu jaffa means cruelty. In Urdu poetry it is commonly used in the
> sense of a "beautiful cruelty".
Is that right? I thought that word in Urdu was "Zalim" (and a woman
that is beautiful and cruel is called "Zalima"?)
Suresh
arahim
yes the more common word is zulm for cruelty. Jaffa would now only be
used in poetry.
Unknown
I'm guessing.
A Jaffa won't / shouldn't get you out.
A Jaffa can't Father a child.
A Jaffa is a big seedless orange from Jaffa in Isreal.
The big delicious orange has no seeds, the term then used to describe
the guy with the low sperm count, he might have two dicks but he can't
get anyone pregnant. Then the jaffa ball - unplayable, but doesn't get
the wicket.
This is a bit like the call my bluff show. Have I convinced you?
John Hall
<b568168b-5e6a-4db5...@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
arahim <arahim...@hotmail.com> writes:
>Richie Benaud has been asked to date the first cricketing usage of the
>'jaffa', an unplayable delivery that has left the dictionary editors
>stumped. In many cases, the OED is unable to tell how a word was
>invented. It is seeking assistance from people who might claim to have
>been present when the musical description 'ska' was introduced into
>british-Jamaican clubs. The dictionary is certain that gentlemen
>required 'something for the weekend' before 1990 but "finding
>documentary evidence has proved unusually difficult".
>
>(The Times, 10 June 2005)
>http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/Database/language.html#OED
>
>
>Any one know what the results of this search were or what does OED
>have to say on it now.
>Everything from oranges to cakes have been discussed.
>
>
>John Hall mentioned that Trevor Bailey has used this term for a long
>time. What is the earliest known usage of this term in cricket or at
>least Bailey's earliest usage.
I think he was probably already using it when he first joined the TMS
team (which was in 1967). I would guess that he picked it up during his
playing days, which would place it somewhere between the late 1940s and
the mid-sixties.
>
>
>I would like to make a suggestion though this may be completely and
>utterly wrong and may easily be shown that way by the historical usage
>but it fits in very nicely and on the face of it sounds plausible
>(though historical facts may clearly show that this origin is
>impossible). So throwing out a wild suggestion (Only since other Urdu
>terms have come into usage in cricket). So with no shred of evidence
>here is the suggestion.
>
>
>In Urdu jaffa means cruelty. In Urdu poetry it is commonly used in the
>sense of a "beautiful cruelty".
>
>http://voiceandview.blogspot.com/2009/12/jaffa-beautiful-cruelty.html
I like that idea. I hope that it's right.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"
Apteryx
An interesting possibility. If Bernaud's research shows the term
originating in Pakistan it would be convincing.
However, I had always assumed that the term originated in Australia, and
that the source was this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffas_%28candy%29
Apteryx
Suresh K S
It's a pretty amazing language. Some of my Northie friends had
translated some of the stuff that passes in regular folks'
conversation - "Aap ke daulat khana kahan hai" and the like. Very
ornate and poetic. Does the language predate Hindustani?
Back to Jaffa - think I heard it first when one of the English batsmen
was dismissed in the second innings of the Edgbaston test (India's
'79-80 tour). England had to chase a small total of just over 90
something to win in their second innings (after making India follow
on). Kapil Dev hit a purple patch and had them fighting at 20 or so
for 3 at close of play on day 4. One of the wickets that he picked up
was with a brute of a ball and IIRC the commentator let loose the
'Jaffa' word. It could well have been Trevor Bailey (CM Jenkins, Fred
Truman and perhaps Bailey were the comms in that test?).
Suresh
John Hall
<5d6cdbf9-ba25-451b...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Suresh K S <sureshka...@gmail.com> writes:
>Back to Jaffa - think I heard it first when one of the English batsmen
>was dismissed in the second innings of the Edgbaston test (India's
>'79-80 tour). England had to chase a small total of just over 90
>something to win in their second innings (after making India follow
>on). Kapil Dev hit a purple patch and had them fighting at 20 or so
>for 3 at close of play on day 4. One of the wickets that he picked up
>was with a brute of a ball and IIRC the commentator let loose the
>'Jaffa' word. It could well have been Trevor Bailey (CM Jenkins, Fred
>Truman and perhaps Bailey were the comms in that test?).
Yes, those three were all there.
Commentators: Arlott, Johnston, CMJ, Blofield
Expert summarisers: Bailey, Trueman
Bailey would probably be the prime suspect, though I can also imagine
Blofield and perhaps Johnston saying it.
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)
Fran
That's something I always assumed without having any basis for doing
so beyond a frivolous similarity between a jaffa and a cricket ball. I
assume the word jaffa derived from the orange, but the urban legend is
of people rolling them down the aisles in old suburban theatre houses
with wooden floors for mischievous effect.
Fran
Nirvanam
> translated some of the stuff that passes in regular folks'
> conversation - "Aap ke daulat khana kahan hai" and the like. Very
> ornate and poetic. Does the language predate Hindustani?
Suresh, much as I dislike to get political but I just wanted to let
you know that "Hindustani" as a language never existed. It was always
called Hindi and the other Hindi-similar languages with theit
respective names. "Hindustani" the language was invented as a
propaganda tool by Gandhi in order to get Hindus and Muslims together
during the fight for FREEDOM (not independence..lol!).
What did happen though was that Ram and Sita were referred to as Begum
Sita and Badshah Ram as an initial proposal by one of the guys working
for Gandhi. But some of the groups like Hindu Mahasabha wanted some of
the Islamic big names also to get referenced with a Sanskritised term.
For ex - Muhammed as Swami / Baghwan instead of Rasoul, Akbar as
Chakravarthy instead of Jahanpanah. But it didn't go down well with
either group. Hence the propaganda tool called Hindustani died out
although the Congress still try to use it sometimes.
The above is only a fact of what happened in history and has no
intention to imply any specific interpretation. I could care less
about religion anyway. The fact of the matter is Hindustani as a
language flopped because none accepted it.
guyana
Wrong as usual
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindustani_language
Suresh K S
>
> Suresh, much as I dislike to get political but I just wanted to let
> you know that "Hindustani" as a language never existed. It was always
> called Hindi and the other Hindi-similar languages with theit
> respective names. "Hindustani" the language was invented as a
> propaganda tool by Gandhi in order to get Hindus and Muslims together
> during the fight for FREEDOM (not independence..lol!).
Are you sure about this? I recall reading just the opposite or at
least contradictory stuff in Guha's book of history ('India After
Gandhi'). IIRC he suggested that Hindi was the late arrival on the
scene and when the founding fathers (the constituent assembly) debated
languages there were folks that could speak Hindustani and/or Urdu but
few that spoke Hindi. Guha seemed to suggest that Hindi was a later
child that was offered as a means of bridging various divides. I could
be wrong about this, I don't have the book handy and will check when I
return to the US.
I take your point about being apolitical and non-denominational, ditto
in my case. This is just a tangential reference and not meant to
suggest at the superiority or otherwise of any language.
Suresh
Dick Boocky
Yes, that was my initial thought also. One other possible derivation I
've heard is from the orange, Jaffa apparently being the best type of
orange. But the Jaffa-candy theory does seem a more satisfying
explanation to me, although there could be some cultural bias behind
that. A Jaffa sweet has more of an appearance of a cricket ball than
an orange, and as you mention there is the rolling or 'delivery' down
the wooden floors of cinema houses. What does the Macquarie dictionary
have to say about the origin of the word, anyone?
viper
"Apteryx" <apte...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hhj872$mpg$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
At the risk of spoiling another episode in the incredibly romantic history
of Indian prose, you are correct
Viper
arahim
> On Dec 31 2009, 3:51 pm, arahim <arahim_ara...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31, 12:08 pm, Suresh K S <sureshkarathin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > yes the more common word is zulm for cruelty. Jaffa would now only be
> > used in poetry.
>
> It's a pretty amazing language. Some of my Northie friends had
> translated some of the stuff that passes in regular folks'
> conversation - "Aap ke daulat khana kahan hai" and the like. Very
> ornate and poetic. Does the language predate Hindustani?
>
Some pockets may still speak like that but mostly today it will not be
ornate:)
Yes it is a great language for poetry primarily because it has been
tuned for it and a lot of work went into it in creating the structures
and word associations culminating in the peak of ghazal in Zafar's
time. Partially probably because the elite's hands had been clipped by
the British by then as far as the instruments of governance were
concerned. So it was one thing they could concentrate on. Partially
also because of the general mughal tradition of poetry. Babar, when
riding to war, would bide his time with his fellow commanders creating
poetry while on horse back (though it was in turkic then) and some of
it extremely ribald (see Babarnama). To rise to be one of the great
amirs in the empire one had to be not only a competent soldier,
administrator, and law expert but also be able to write well and write
poetry competently enough to recite in court where there were of
course professional poets as well.
It is a very young language probably starting to become distinct may
be in Akbar's time. It used to be called zuban e urd or the language
of the camp. So urdu basically means of camp. It was the language of
the military camp and emerged as a mixture of all the different
languages that soldiers from different parts spoke. Later became the
language for the court as well. Babar's language was Turkic. By the
time of Akbar there were few who spoke it and the language of the
court was by then Persian. Infact Babarnama was translated into
persian for Akbar and this is the version that currently survives. The
original turkic version is thought to have perished when the royal
mughal library was burned down in the sacking of Delhi by Nadir Shah.
So there is heavy persian influence in Urdu as well as many other
languages of the subcontinent. All regional subcontinental languages
are much older.
Ibn e Insha was an Urdu poet (middle to late twentieth century) who
experimented with hindi vocabulary in poetry (there was always some
but he doe it more). Here's some of his stuff:
He was a little over the top (in a good way) kind of guy and this is
sung by one of the great over the top singers:) So all in all a great
combo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlKHB8ExZo8
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwuOq-neOfI
and on the lighter side ... well for him:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FNmK08QcQw