UFC vs. Boxing
The Sanity Cruzer
exciting fight cards, as has been the case recently. Their fights used to
be boring, but the rules have changed and fighters have adapted. Also, the
best fights are being made and fighters still want to fight and they want
to, in general, fight the best opponents available. OTOH, boxing is such a
hit and miss (in more than one way) proposition. One never knows if he is
going to be seeing a mismatch, a boring fight or, even on occasion, a top
flight bout. The difference is, with the UFC, you have come to expect
highly anticipated and exciting bouts. With boxing, highly anticipated and
exciting bouts are not usually happening on the same night.
Marin Mauler
Prize Fighters that wasted all their money and are willing to degrade
themselves for cash. No offense intended, of course.
"The Sanity Cruzer" <sanityc...@eSaPrAtMhlink.net> wrote in message
news:jojcc.16074$Dv2....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Brian
future. More money in team sports and more chance to succeed. No college
scholarships for boxing. The chances of making real money, or even garnering
worldwide praise and respect are very low. You can make more money in a lot of
other things and not abuse your body or risk your life. The money and
opportunity in team sports is incredible.
<I took the RSB Pledge - 2002>
Brian
Maybe some positive portrayals of boxing could life fan interest and with more
fans more money will be there for people considering boxing as a sport.
http://www.nbc.com/nbc/The_Contender/
Franky I dont know why boxing isn't bigger. It's been mismanaged and run into
the ground by criminals like Don King. It is perfect for TV, one of the most
dramatic things to watch and the rules are simple. Visually its probalby the
most exciting sport outside of football to televise.
Marin Mauler
like to see is for a new champion to come into boxing, able to lay claim to
the title of World Heavyweight Champion..and I don't mean someone like
Lewis, either. I'm talking about someone who would attain the status of a
Living Legend, as did Joe Louis, Ali, Rocky, Dempsey and yes even Tyson.
Such a champion would bring back the respect, the appreciation, the passion
back to the occupation of PRIZE FIGHTER.
"Brian" <opt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fgk370lpm4uhv1o54...@4ax.com...
Araxen
It very, very popular in japan and there is money to be made over there
till it booms in the states. There are some American's making a killing
over there right now. Bob Sapp and Quinton Jackson come to mind atm.
UFC is one Mike Tyson(in his prime) like person away from hitting the
bigtime. The only trouble is that upsets are very common in the UFC and
MMA in general so it's been very hard to get a build up one person. They
build someone up and when it seems like they are gonna break out an
upset happens and it all goes down the tubes.
DeadAndRestless
>bigtime. The only trouble is that upsets are very common in the UFC and
>MMA in general so it's been very hard to get a build up one person. They
>build someone up and when it seems like they are gonna break out an
>upset happens and it all goes down the tubes.
>
It may not have to be a Mike Tyson even. There's strong word that Bill Goldberg
is negotiating with PRIDE, UFC, and K-1. The idea of seeing american pro
wrestlers in *real* fights is a very tasty proposition, and Goldberg is still a
big enough draw to make BIG waves in North America (especially with going over
in his final WWE match). If he has anything even bordering on success (which he
probably won't, though many japanese wrestlers have/do compete in MMA), other
wrestlers will likely see the giant bucks he'll make for a single event and
make the move. Plus, since submissions are "okay" and ko's less frequent, MMA
fighters can often fight 4-5 times a year, unlike most championship level
boxers.
If it happens and is properly advertised stateside, MMA groups may not only
superceed boxing (which may be another decade or two away) but even
professional wrestling (as it is doing in Japan).
-
Alan
Johnc3382
Marin Mauler
won't do anything for the sport. He's not someone who could become a Legend
like those previously mentioned. Could you really see him as a public idol,
even if he holds the highest title in professional sports?
"Johnc3382" <john...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040405195727...@mb-m16.aol.com...
Robert Phillips
Marin Mauler wrote:
> I agree that Contender will give a boost to the sport.
I worry that it will reinforce the notion that anybody can become a
"contender" if only they are set up with the right advisors and
handlers, rather than by working hard, taking the right fights, learning
the craft, and working their way up. I don't think anybody really
expects that whoever they latch onto will ever have any pro career worth
mentioning. Someone here rather astutely said that whatever guy it is
will likely be using the 'Contender' label as a shortcut into Hollywood
and Madison Avenue (like most reality-show participants) rather than as
a shortcut into the sport of boxing, and I agree with that prediction.
Meanwhile, the notion of actually earning the status of 'contender' will
take a backseat to the idea of celebrity and Hollywoodization and name
recognition.
Pie
Robert Phillips
DeadAndRestless wrote:
> Plus, since submissions are "okay" and ko's less frequent, MMA
> fighters can often fight 4-5 times a year, unlike most championship level
> boxers.
Boxers CAN. They choose not to, though, since many of them are paid
enough to not need to, and reduce the risk of loss by fighting more and
more infrequently.
Pie
Marin Mauler
give some sort of 'boost' to actual Professional Boxing? At least as far as
the general public deciding to watch more of it on television. Whatever the
effect, I'm looking forward to watching the show...it's put on by Rocky
Balboa for cryin out loud. ;-)
"Robert Phillips" <rp...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Sdncc.423810$Po1.2...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
Johnc3382
TheGloveGP
>exciting fight cards, as has been the case recently.
I doubt it. UFC has some problems, mainly a lot of the top MMA fighters dont
even fightt for ufc and second their fights are ended way to quickly. They
pride themselves on being safe and never having a death in the ring. Almost
every fight you see if one solid punch is landed the fight is stopped right
away. A guy could get hit by a punch that really isnt even a great punch, fall
to the mat and as he is getting up immediately after hitting the mat, showing
he obviously wasnt hurt too bad, the ref is waiving in his face the fights
over. A great boxer would probably have good success in ufc because all he
would have to do is train to try and quickly land the first punch and you can
almost gaurantee the ref is going to stop it. Its a joke.
TheGloveGP
>Goldberg
>is negotiating with PRIDE, UFC, and K-1.
Great, they gonna get other great fighters like the macho man, the hulkster or
maybe brutus the barber beefcake, what a joke.
DeadAndRestless
>even fightt for ufc and second their fights are ended way to quickly. They
>pride themselves on being safe and never having a death in the ring. Almost
>every fight you see if one solid punch is landed the fight is stopped right
>away. A guy could get hit by a punch that really isnt even a great punch,
>fall
>to the mat and as he is getting up immediately after hitting the mat, showing
>he obviously wasnt hurt too bad, the ref is waiving in his face the fights
>over. A great boxer would probably have good success in ufc because all he
>would have to do is train to try and quickly land the first punch and you can
>almost gaurantee the ref is going to stop it. Its a joke.
>
Yea, as if there are never premature stoppages in boxing.
Also, there's one slight issue with the UFC that boxing doesn't have when a guy
goes down: He's still fair game after he's dropped. If a boxer started stomping
another boxer after he got knocked down, there would be calls to ban him for
life. In MMA competition, its perfectly legal.
-
Alan
DeadAndRestless
Considering that Goldberg has trained for MMA fighting, he's fair game. And
like I said, if matched against someone like Cro-Cop, he'd be destroyed.
Doesn't make him any less of a draw for fans. Or change the fact that the fight
would be legit.
Don't forget that many pro wrestlers have legitimate amateur pasts (Kurt Angle
is a former olympic gold medalist, Brock Lesnar is a Division I-A champ, the
late Curt Hennig was an olympic alternate, etc). Also, with the exception of
the wrestlers who had trained in the shootstyle their entire career (see:
Sakuraba or Ken Shamrock), pro wrestlers in the past have faired poorly (see:
Nagata vs. Cro-Cop).
-
Alan
TheGloveGP
If fights in boxing were stopped as premature as they are in ufc no fight would
ever go past one round.
>He's still fair game after he's dropped.
yea so why dont they just change the rules to say if you get knocked down the
fights over because under their rules the fighter can jump on you and punch you
in the arms for 5 minutes. Its stupid. It never gets to that point though
because the ref is in between the fighters waiving it off before anything can
happen. At this point I think a fighter could bitch slap the other fighter and
the ref would waive it off. Maybe even pinch him on the arm.
>If a boxer started stomping
>another boxer after he got knocked down, there would be calls to ban him for
>life.
Of course there would be because its not allowed in boxing. Whats your point?
DeadAndRestless
>>Yea, as if there are never premature stoppages in boxing.
>
>If fights in boxing were stopped as premature as they are in ufc no fight
>would
>ever go past one round.
You haven't been watching boxing that long, have you? Premature stoppages
happen *all the time*. Look at this weekends fights....Hatton's opponent was
actually swinging punches when the fight was stopped.
>yea so why dont they just change the rules to say if you get knocked down the
>fights over because under their rules the fighter can jump on you and punch
>you
>in the arms for 5 minutes.
Well, I can name a load of fights that *didn't* end when the fighter got
dropped by a shot. I'm guessing you can't.
Furthermore, point still stands. Watch Wanderlei Silva kick Sakuraba in the
head about 100 times after he drops him and tell me they "all land on the
arms". You sound like a really annoying fanboy. Did Art Jimmerson's pathetic
attempt in UFC 1 offend you or something?
>Its stupid. It never gets to that point though
>because the ref is in between the fighters waiving it off before anything can
>happen. At this point I think a fighter could bitch slap the other fighter
>and
>the ref would waive it off. Maybe even pinch him on the arm.
Sure. Okay.
>Of course there would be because its not allowed in boxing. Whats your point?
>
Its official. You're a moron.
-
Alan
TheGloveGP
Probably longer than you the way you sound. You probably got me beat in the WWF
department though.
>happen *all the time*. Look at this weekends fights....Hatton's opponent was
>actually swinging punches when the fight was stopped.
>
Premature as compared to ufc, what are you nuts, atleast the ref asks the
fighter a couple questions and looks to see if he looks like he can continue in
boxing. One bitch slap and the ref is throwing himself in between the fighters
to stop it in ufc like the other fighters about to flatline. And though this
weekends fight could be considered a premature stoppage if that was ufc the ref
would probably get fired for letting the fight go too long. The first landed
bodyshot that seemed to hurt the ref would have stopped it "sorry, I know you
trained hard for this, the most important fight of your life, but you shouldnt
have got hit with that bitch slap to the ribs."
>You sound like a really annoying fanboy.
You sound like the ufc's bitch.
>Did Art Jimmerson's pathetic
>attempt in UFC 1 offend you or something?
The early ufc was much better than now. They are more concerned with
safety(actually ending a fight as quick as possible) instead of giving a
fighter who has trained his ass off a chance to win the fight.
>At this point I think a fighter could bitch slap the other fighter
>>and
>>the ref would waive it off. Maybe even pinch him on the arm.
>
>Sure. Okay.
Atleast you agree.
>>Of course there would be because its not allowed in boxing. Whats your
>point?
>>
>
>Its official. You're a moron.
>
Another brilliant comeback. Go watch a UFC match from this weekend, that is if
you want to see the fighting sport where the ref takes more punishment than the
fighters.
Locutus
"TheGloveGP" <thegl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040406010658...@mb-m12.aol.com...
> >You haven't been watching boxing that long, have you?
>
> Probably longer than you the way you sound. You probably got me beat in
the WWF
> department though.
>
While you may have been watching boxing for awhile (though based on your
comments it would be a tough sell), you obviously have no idea what you are
talking about when it comes to UFC.
MMA is not for everyone, just like boxing is not for everyone, just accept
that it's not for you and move on, no need to bash it.
Myonk5
to spare!!!!
It will never take over, but will gain in popularity!!!!
Myonk5
sport and become involved in the sweet science, let me know!!!!!
Myonk5
boxing!!!
The Sanity Cruzer
Well, it's not joke when you get knocked down and you're stunned. It's not
like boxing where your opponent goes to the neutral corner. He's on top of
you cleaning your clock. IMO, most of the stoppages are good. John
McCarthy always does a good job with his stoppages. A couple other refs
have been a bit quick. Still, at least these guys want to fight. I suppose
if the money gets much better, MMA will have the same problem as does
boxing.
Even if the best are not always fighting each other, who cares? Would you
rather see Judah-Spinks or one of Gatti's bouts?
The Sanity Cruzer
news:20040406002022...@mb-m11.aol.com...
> Also, there's one slight issue with the UFC that boxing doesn't have when
a guy
> goes down: He's still fair game after he's dropped. If a boxer started
stomping
> another boxer after he got knocked down, there would be calls to ban him
for
> life. In MMA competition, its perfectly legal.
You cannot stomp on a downed fighter in the UFC, IIRC.
The Sanity Cruzer
> >Yea, as if there are never premature stoppages in boxing.
>
> If fights in boxing were stopped as premature as they are in ufc no fight
would
> ever go past one round.
That's crap. The other night Robbie Lawler got dropped face first by a
single hook. Had the ref not stopped the bout, the badly stunned Lawler
would have taken unnecessary punishment. In boxing, Lawler would have
gotten a mandatory 8-count. Then, they would have stopped the bout.
223rem
> It may not have to be a Mike Tyson even. There's strong word that Bill Goldberg
> is negotiating with PRIDE, UFC, and K-1. The idea of seeing american pro
> wrestlers in *real* fights is a very tasty proposition,
Oh please. "Pro wrestlers" are basically stuntmen, not fighters.
The UFC and Pride fights are for real, and can be pretty violent.
Can you imagine a WWF guy taking elbows and knees to the head,
or soccer kicked in the head?
223rem
TheGloveGP wrote:
>>Yea, as if there are never premature stoppages in boxing.
>
>
> If fights in boxing were stopped as premature as they are in ufc no fight would
> ever go past one round.
>
Problem is if a fighter is stunned and lying on the mat he can get
soccer kicked in the head (Pride) or pummeled in the UFC. Why allow
such a massacre?
TheGloveGP
>That's crap. The other night Robbie Lawler got dropped face first by a
>single hook.
Of which he was getting right back up on his feet as the ref was ruining his
year by stopping it.
TheGloveGP
>soccer kicked in the head (Pride) or pummeled in the UFC. Why allow
>such a massacre?
Than theres some serious issues if a match is basically over when someone gets
knocked to the ground. Whenever i see someone get knocked to the ground by
something evenn close to a punch in ufc its time to take a piss break because
hurt or not you know the fights about to get stopped.
TheGloveGP
>comments it would be a tough sell),
The comment that ufc fights are stopped way to early to ensure safety shows I
havent been watching boxing for a long time? Brilliant point einstein.
Chris Carver
> I agree that Contender will give a boost to the sport. What I would really
> like to see is for a new champion to come into boxing, able to lay claim to
> the title of World Heavyweight Champion..and I don't mean someone like
> Lewis, either. I'm talking about someone who would attain the status of a
> Living Legend, as did Joe Louis, Ali, Rocky, Dempsey and yes even Tyson.
> Such a champion would bring back the respect, the appreciation, the passion
> back to the occupation of PRIZE FIGHTER.
I'd love to see the rise of a boxing legend as well. The only problem
is, they're usually not recognized until the end of their career at
the soonest. That seems to be how it works anyway.
Chris Carver
> is negotiating with PRIDE, UFC, and K-1. The idea of seeing american pro
> big enough draw to make BIG waves in North America (especially with going over
> in his final WWE match). If he has anything even bordering on success (which he
> probably won't, though many japanese wrestlers have/do compete in MMA), other
> wrestlers will likely see the giant bucks he'll make for a single event and
> make the move. Plus, since submissions are "okay" and ko's less frequent, MMA
> fighters can often fight 4-5 times a year, unlike most championship level
> boxers.
>
> superceed boxing (which may be another decade or two away) but even
> professional wrestling (as it is doing in Japan).
>
> -
> Alan
Goldberg in UFC, Pride, or K-1 would be quite interesting. I wonder
if he would work his way up by beating up a couple of second-rate
contenders or go for a real pay day and fight one of the top
contenders. I think he would be killed in the latter case. There are
a lot more factors to take into consideration in those types of
fights. His simple wrestling skills aren't enough to carry him to a
championship victory in MMA competition.
I still want to see Mike Tyson vs Mirko "Crocop" :)
Chris Carver
> It's my opinion that the UFC should be a purgatory for over-the-hill retired
> Prize Fighters that wasted all their money and are willing to degrade
> themselves for cash. No offense intended, of course.
I understand your scathing reply to this flaimbait topic, however,
there's no reason to think that MMA competition is inferior in any way
to boxing. Its just a different arena. Those over-the-hill boxers
have been very unsuccessful in the MMA arena.
Mike Haught
>
>A bit too drunk after Gtech lost, but rest assure, UFC will never take over
>boxing!!!
>
there'd never be a computer in everyone's home, let alone their desks at work.
That was only 22 years ago.
-mwh
Isaiah
> I think the UFC will overtake boxing in popularity if it keeps having
The most recent card was good. The one immediately preceding it was
quite poor, lowlighted by the worst PPV main event ever. The
promotional methods of Pride blow the UFC away, as does the level of
competition in the heavyweight and lightheavyweight (or whatever they
call it) division. I think MMA in general is clearly on the rise, but
it has a long road with a lot of unexpected bumps on it to reach the
success of boxing.
> Their fights used to
> be boring, but the rules have changed and fighters have adapted. Also, the
> best fights are being made and fighters still want to fight and they want
> to, in general, fight the best opponents available. OTOH, boxing is such a
> hit and miss (in more than one way) proposition. One never knows if he is
> going to be seeing a mismatch, a boring fight or, even on occasion, a top
> flight bout.
As the level of competition for the sport increases, I think it will
probably begin to take on many of the problems in this area that
boxing has.
> The difference is, with the UFC, you have come to expect
> highly anticipated and exciting bouts. With boxing, highly anticipated and
> exciting bouts are not usually happening on the same night.
I don't know. Does anyone enjoy watching two guys on the ground trying
unsuccessfully to, you know, DO something? My own opinion is that the
best MMA fights are more entertaining than the best boxing matches,
but the worst MMA fights are much worse and more common than the worst
boxing matches. Side note: I recently had the displeasure of watching
the best of the Abu Dhabi grappling championships (can't remember the
exact name of the event). It was worse than auto racing.
-Isaiah
DeadAndRestless
>if he would work his way up by beating up a couple of second-rate
>contenders or go for a real pay day and fight one of the top
>contenders. I think he would be killed in the latter case. There are
>a lot more factors to take into consideration in those types of
>fights. His simple wrestling skills aren't enough to carry him to a
>championship victory in MMA competition.
>
I think whoever signs him will have him fight some total tomato cans (like,
Japanese Pro Wrestlers even worse than he) and then they'll have him in a
freakshow bout with a Sapp or Cro-Cop. And in that final match, they'll
probably be bringing him home in a body bag. If Ron Waterman (an ex amateur
wrestler who converted to pro wrestler) couldn't succeed in PRIDE or K-1,
Goldie's gonna die.
-
Alan
DeadAndRestless
>The UFC and Pride fights are for real, and can be pretty violent.
>Can you imagine a WWF guy taking elbows and knees to the head,
>or soccer kicked in the head?
>
As previously stated in another post, many pro wrestlers have amateur
backgrounds, and as MMA has shown the importance of grappling, its solid. Watch
Quinton Jackson throw people around PRIDE...or Bob Sapp trying to piledrive
Noguiera. Realistically though, there's maybe 4-5 guys tops that would succeed
at a moderate level in MMA though. Its not like the WWE has anything near a
Takada dojo in house (much like UWF did).
-
Alan
DeadAndRestless
>unsuccessfully to, you know, DO something?
I can get into grappling now because I understand what exactly they're trying
to do. When I first started watching, I didn't see things like fighters putting
up their legs in guard to keep people from passing, or see where there were
openings for stuff like armbars and kimuras. Now I do. But it took a looooooong
ass time. And I still admittedly fastforward through a lot of the early MMA
grappling. Royce Gracie's old matches that didn't end early are PAINFUL to
watch in full.
Then again, you're taking this from someone who's watched his fair share of
auto racing.
-
Alan
DeadAndRestless
>fighter a couple questions and looks to see if he looks like he can continue
>in
>boxing.
Pedersen got asked questions? Really?
>One bitch slap and the ref is throwing himself in between the fighters
>to stop it in ufc like the other fighters about to flatline.
Examples? "Like every other fight" is not a valid answer.
>he first landed
>bodyshot that seemed to hurt the ref would have stopped it "sorry, I know you
>trained hard for this, the most important fight of your life, but you
>shouldnt
>have got hit with that bitch slap to the ribs."
Riiiiiight.
>The early ufc was much better than now. They are more concerned with
>safety(actually ending a fight as quick as possible) instead of giving a
>fighter who has trained his ass off a chance to win the fight.
They were? Watch it again sometime. I watched UFC 1 about a month ago. I don't
think seeing an unconscious sumo wrestler literally being stomped in the face
and having his teeth litter the ring like chiclets by a Savate kickboxer is
"concern with safety". You must have different ideas as to what "safety" is
than me.
>Another brilliant comeback. Go watch a UFC match from this weekend, that is
>if
>you want to see the fighting sport where the ref takes more punishment than
>the
>fighters.
You'd think that in a boxing NG, more boxing fans would agree with you. Yet all
the other regs think you're a fool. Funny how that works.
** troll.
-
Alan
Marin Mauler
an inferiority to the sport, only that, as you say, they are different and
should be compared with that stern fact in mind.
"Chris Carver" <cca...@pennswoods.net> wrote in message
news:1ec900c5.04040...@posting.google.com...
Marin Mauler
"Johnc3382" <john...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040405215146...@mb-m16.aol.com...
> klitsko is the perfect champion,,,,,,,,,he will destroy all other
contenders!
TheGloveGP
Oh my god, you cant be this braindead, I think you are a boxer who took too
many blows to the head, no wonder you sing the praises of the new stop the
fight immediately ufc. You know what in general means?
>>trained hard for this, the most important fight of your life, but you
>>shouldnt
>>have got hit with that bitch slap to the ribs."
>
>Riiiiiight.
Atleast you agree.
> I watched UFC 1 about a month ago. I don't
>think seeing an unconscious sumo wrestler literally being stomped in the face
>and having his teeth litter the ring like chiclets by a Savate kickboxer is
>"concern with safety".
Read what I said, maybe more slowly so you can understand, I said the early
UFC's were much better, the UFC now is more concerned with safety and stopping
a fight with the first landed girl punch on the arm.
>You'd think that in a boxing NG, more boxing fans would agree with you. Yet
>all
>the other regs think you're a fool. Funny how that works.
>
Yea, who cares? And now your desperately trying to get others on your side
wether they care or not, how sad. You cant accept the truth that UFC blows now
and will keep getting worse and worse until nobody will order that shit on ppv.
Oh well you will still have your beloved wrestlemanias to watch. Later
hulkamaniac.
TheGloveGP
>that
>there'd never be a computer in everyone's home, let alone their desks at
>work.
>
>That was only 22 years ago.
>
Nobody takes your computer away in 20 seconds after the first sign of it
slowing down though.
TheGloveGP
>backgrounds, and as MMA has shown the importance of grappling, its solid.
Your lucky you like wwf and that crap besides ufc, atleast when ufc lets you
down(every event) you got your beloved steroid filled idiots in spandex
touching each other to watch.
Marin Mauler
well as very valid points)
"TheGloveGP" <thegl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040406105555...@mb-m22.aol.com...
DeadAndRestless
A) My lucky?
B) Steroid filled idiots? Like Fernando Vargas?
-
Alan
DeadAndRestless
>many blows to the head, no wonder you sing the praises of the new stop the
>fight immediately ufc. You know what in general means?
And "in general" there's probably one "premature" stoppage per 10 fights. And
"in general" fights in MMA are stopped when a fighter is downed because there
is no 10 count and they are still fair game on the ground. I know its difficult
for neanderthals for you to understand, but having a guy get kicked in the face
while down and hurt isn't necessary in any sport.
>
>Read what I said, maybe more slowly so you can understand, I said the early
>UFC's were much better, the UFC now is more concerned with safety and
>stopping
>a fight with the first landed girl punch on the arm.
Obviously you have a bone to pick. Or you're trolling. In which case I have to
admit; you're successful. Are you Ron Krull, by any chance?
>Yea, who cares? And now your desperately trying to get others on your side
>wether they care or not, how sad.
I'm not asking anyone to take my side. Yet many did anyways.
>You cant accept the truth that UFC blows now
>and will keep getting worse and worse until nobody will order that shit on
>ppv.
Mmmmhmmm. I'm sure the ratings are crashing. Zuffa and Dreamstage must be
deeply afraid of you exposing their sport in between sessions of scotchguard
huffing.
>Oh well you will still have your beloved wrestlemanias to watch. Later
>hulkamaniac.
k thx, Gerald McClellan
-
Alan
Locutus
Regardless if you agree with that statement, the rest of my statement still
stands. I think soccer is pretty lame, but I don't go around bashing it and
say that no one should like it, because obviously there are a lot of people
who do like it.
Locutus
I have a simple solution for you; DON'T WATCH IT AND SHUT YOUR PIEHOLE!
Locutus
I wish someone would have taken your computer away after the first sign of
your lack of intelligence.
The Sanity Cruzer
First of all, he didn't just pop right up. When he got up, after the ref
pulled Diaz away from Lawler, Robbie was unable to stand and fell back
against the ropes. He was still wobbling around the ring while Diaz was
yelling, "What up?" If you wanted the fight to continue, it would have put
Lawler at unnecessary risk of more serious injury.
Whatever floats your boat.
The Sanity Cruzer
>atleast when ufc lets you down(every event) you got your beloved steroid
filled idiots in spandex
> touching each other to watch.
Yeah. So, what's your point? ;->
Krazy K
> Another brilliant comeback. Go watch a UFC match from this weekend, that is if
> you want to see the fighting sport where the ref takes more punishment than > the
> fighters.
MMA fighting is more intense than boxing these days. Spectacular KO's
often occur. Also, boxers aren't complete fighters, they're complete
*punchers*. That's why an mma fighter would, under most circumstances,
destroy the most elite pro boxer with impunity. Back in the 60's, judo
sensation Gene LeBell fought pro boxer, Milo Savage, in an mma fight.
Savage was a legit pro; he fought ex-champ Gene Fullmer twice, losing
both by decision, and had victories over Bobby Boyd, Holly Mims, and
Moses Ward. Also, at the time of the fight, Savage was negotiating to
meet champion Dick Tiger, so he was a true representative of boxing.
Savage even wore small speed bag gloves. Anyway, Gene defeated him, in
4 rounds I believe, with a choke hold. Gene stated that he could've
ended the fight many times, but didn't want to seriously injure Milo,
so he waited and finally had the opportunity for a simple choke.
Today's mma fighters are much better than LeBell, so imagine the
outcome for a pro boxer with no mma experience, in a streetfight.
Kent
TheGloveGP
>MMA fighting is more intense than boxing these days.
No it isnt.
>Spectacular KO's
>often occur.
Spectacular if you mean the ref stopping the fight after any landed punch.
>Also, boxers aren't complete fighters,
In ufc boxers would have a good chance because all they would have to do is
train to land one punch.
>destroy the most elite pro boxer with impunity.
Destroy under ufc rules, meaning if the boxer falls to the ground the ref stops
it in 2 seconds.
TheGloveGP
>stands. I think soccer is pretty lame, but I don't go around bashing it and
>say that no one should like it, because obviously there are a lot of people
>who do like it.
Bash it? The thread is called ufc vs. boxing.
TheGloveGP
Piehole, lol. havent heard that one since third grade. Your solution is a good
one, unfortunately for you ufc will keep losing viewers and keep getting worse
and worse.
TheGloveGP
>your lack of intelligence.
Lack of intelligence because I say ufc sucks. Its obvious your intelligence is
very low.
TheGloveGP
>
>B) Steroid filled idiots? Like Fernando Vargas?
You're lucky, excuse me grammar boy, if i were you id be trying to change the
subject of this thread as well.
Steroid idiot fernando vargas, youre right he is an idiot and he got KTFO, but
unlike ufc he didnt lose after he caught one solid punch, he took an ass
beating. No doubts about whos the better fighter in that fight. But atleast
fernando didnt read a script on what was to happen or try to feel up on DLH
like 'pro' wrestlers do.
TheGloveGP
What do you mean whats my point? Im simply cheering this guy up, hes watching
his ufc get worse and worse each event, but he still has his trailer park pro
wrestling to watch. ANDRE THE GIANT FOREVER!!!!
TheGloveGP
You mean 10 premature stoppages per 1 event.
> fights in MMA are stopped when a fighter is downed because there
>is no 10 count and they are still fair game on the ground.
Yea but the point is they really arent fair game on the ground if they get
dropped by a punch because the ref is gonna stop it.
> I know its difficult
>for neanderthals for you to understand,
Neanderthal, is that one of your favorite pro wrestlers names or did you just
take an ancient history class?
>but having a guy get kicked in the face
>while down and hurt isn't necessary in any sport.
I guess thats why the ref stops it before it can happen.
>Or you're trolling
Yea im trolling, I post here all the time about boxing. I think you accidently
got into the boxing newsgroup when you meant to get into the king kong bundy
newsgroup.
>I'm not asking anyone to take my side. Yet many did anyways.
How cute, you made some new friends, ask them over for a monday night raw
popcorn party.
Chris Carver
You can in pride.
Chris Carver
> >Problem is if a fighter is stunned and lying on the mat he can get
> >soccer kicked in the head (Pride) or pummeled in the UFC. Why allow
> >such a massacre?
>
> Than theres some serious issues if a match is basically over when someone gets
> knocked to the ground. Whenever i see someone get knocked to the ground by
> something evenn close to a punch in ufc its time to take a piss break because
> hurt or not you know the fights about to get stopped.
I haven't watched UFC in 3 or 4 years, but I've been watching pride
avidly for quite some time. That is NOT the case in the Pride arena.
I've seen broken ribs, broken noses, broken jaws, broken faces, and
the fight continues. I think its pretty silly that you insinuate that
MMA combat is some sort of weak and oversupervised form of fighting.
Its quite the opposite. Of course fights get stopped a little quicker
than in boxing. You have the risk of broken bones and death by
elbows, knees, submission moves, stomps to the face, etc... But its
still very brutal.
This whole argument is pretty ridiculous. I love both sports equally.
Realize they can't be compared in the way we're comparing them. The
only similarity is that they involve violent individual competition.
It ends there. You may as well compare golf and body building.
Chris Carver
> best MMA fights are more entertaining than the best boxing matches,
> but the worst MMA fights are much worse and more common than the worst
> boxing matches. Side note: I recently had the displeasure of watching
> the best of the Abu Dhabi grappling championships (can't remember the
> exact name of the event). It was worse than auto racing.
>
>
>
> -Isaiah
Although I find all of them at least somewhat entertaining, I agree
100% about bad MMA fights being worse than bad boxing matches. Its
especially frustrating watching opening fighters get completely winded
in under 5 minutes or those that flail away at each other like
children.
That brings up another point. You can really tell the difference
between a first rate competitor in MMA and the chumps that they
sometimes feed them. You can in boxing as well, but in MMA its very
apparent within the first 10 seconds. Blood, gore, destruction,
etc... soon follows.
Chris Carver
> to do. When I first started watching, I didn't see things like fighters putting
> up their legs in guard to keep people from passing, or see where there were
> openings for stuff like armbars and kimuras. Now I do. But it took a looooooong
> ass time. And I still admittedly fastforward through a lot of the early MMA
> grappling. Royce Gracie's old matches that didn't end early are PAINFUL to
> watch in full.
>
> Then again, you're taking this from someone who's watched his fair share of
> auto racing.
>
> -
> Alan
I feel the same way. At first, it bored me to tears. Now that I
completely understand whats going on in those ground fights (and I'm
not saying the original poster doesn't) its really entertaining to me.
Watching Royce Gracie work someone on the ground for me is like
watching Picasso paint a masterpiece. :)
Chris Carver
> wether they care or not, how sad. You cant accept the truth that UFC blows now
> and will keep getting worse and worse until nobody will order that shit on ppv.
> Oh well you will still have your beloved wrestlemanias to watch. Later
> hulkamaniac.
You think MMA competition (UFC in particular) blows now. Okay. We
get the point. I disagree, and so do a lot of other people. You're
not convincing anyone of anything. Take it to a martial arts
newsgroup.
Mr.Will
"Krazy K" <Groundan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5dbdf251.04040...@posting.google.com...
You think boxing has no spectular KOs?
Anyhow, boxing is a different sport to martial arts and wrestling.
One thing does seem apparent though - no boxer at the top of his game will
compete in non boxing sports,
its usually the fact that they're offered money to re-invent themselves in
other sports, when their boxing career is basically over.
Are you suggesting that MMA somehow resembles a "streetfight"?
In which case, I dont agree.
Mr.Will
TheGloveGP
>elbows, knees, submission moves, stomps to the face, etc... But its
>still very brutal.
UFC prides themselves on being safer than boxing, thats why it sucks now. Ive
seen pride a couple times, Pride is different than ufc, they let fighters fight
on after being hurt, not in ufc.
TheGloveGP
>get the point. I disagree, and so do a lot of other people. You're
>not convincing anyone of anything. Take it to a martial arts
>newsgroup.
>
Hey genius i didnt start this discusiion someone else did, Im not trying to
convince anyone ufc blows, they can watch for themselves and see.
The Sanity Cruzer
I did not use the term as you're taking it. Obviously, you have a strong
bias towards boxing. That doesn't mean you've got to have a burr up your
ass.
The Sanity Cruzer
news:1ec900c5.04040...@posting.google.com...
> I feel the same way. At first, it bored me to tears. Now that I
> completely understand whats going on in those ground fights (and I'm
> not saying the original poster doesn't) its really entertaining to me.
> Watching Royce Gracie work someone on the ground for me is like
> watching Picasso paint a masterpiece. :)
And some boxing matches are liking that masterpiece dry.
Johnc3382
a good grappler can beat a great boxer...
a great boxer can beat a bad or weak grappler,,,,,
if a good boxer you will get his ass kicked 90% of the time
the ufc stops fights sooner because your allowed to jump on them and keep
punching a guy when there knocked out,,,fact is numerous boxers went in the ufc
and got there asses kicked,, as soon as a real fight goes to a clinch a boxer
without a very good wrestling background wil get bodyslammed and choked
out,this is the fact
boxers are toone dimensional,,,shit ,even in k_1 kickboxing botha is 0-4 right
now o-4,,come on,vernon Phillips the ex welterweight champion got his ass
knocked out and his arm broke,,
and this is stand up,,put the grappling into the mix and most boxers will lose
shit look at the great mike tyson
when he fought the ex football player-shitty boxer peter mcneeley.,pete had
tyson up against the rops in a clinch 3,4 times in the fight before tyson
knocked him out,,,,,do you know what would happened if that was ken shamrock
DeadAndRestless
>
>You mean 10 premature stoppages per 1 event.
It was in the context of boxing, smart guy.
>
>Yea but the point is they really arent fair game on the ground if they get
>dropped by a punch because the ref is gonna stop it.
Repeating the same statement over and over does not make it true.
>I guess thats why the ref stops it before it can happen.
Noticing elsewhere in the thread, I notice that you reference PRIDE. Did you
even hear of PRIDE before the thread? Somehow, I doubt it.
>Yea im trolling, I post here all the time about boxing. I think you
>accidently
>got into the boxing newsgroup when you meant to get into the king kong bundy
>newsgroup.
Yes, my thread on the top 20 heavyweights was a mistake. Oops. I should have
x-posted it to alt.atheism and alt.scientology, I guess. Same with that thread
about Chaglev.
(or were you that guy who bitched about Sedrick Fields being horrible
competition for a guy with 9 pro fights? I should check google when I find
enough interest)
Besides, I can't seem to remember, oh, *any* of your contributions to the
forum. :shrug:
But do stay around. I'm sure you have some "interesting" views on the boxing
world. <g>
-
Alan
Brian
>Great, they gonna get other great fighters like the macho man, the hulkster or
>maybe brutus the barber beefcake, what a joke.
LOL don't forget the Ultimate Warrior and Jake the Snake.
<I took the RSB Pledge - 2002>
TheGloveGP
>a good grappler can beat a great boxer...
>a great boxer can beat a bad or weak grappler,,,,,
>if a good boxer you will get his ass kicked 90% of the time
This is based on your extensive scientific research, right? If a great boxer
lands one punch on a grappler the fight is gonna be over.
>the ufc stops fights sooner because your allowed to jump on them and keep
>punching a guy when there knocked out,,
No youre not, because the fight is always stopped before that can happen, so
actually that is a irrelevant rule.
>as soon as a real fight goes to a clinch a boxer
>without a very good wrestling background wil get bodyslammed and choked
>out
Is he also gonna get chokeslammed or get the dreaded sleeper hold on him, maybe
the atomic leg drop will do the trick.
>this is the fact
>boxers are toone dimensional,,
Yea, great boxers who have great defense along with a great offense and are
very smart in the ring are one dimensional.
>,even in k_1 kickboxing botha is 0-4 right
>now
Botha would be 0-4 in regular boxing right now if he started again. Probably
brutally knocked out in all 4 if against decent opposition.
>do you know what would happened if that was ken shamrock
>
The fight would be stopped because someones back touched the ropes?
TheGloveGP
Yea and your same statement over and over is really truthful.
>Did you
>even hear of PRIDE before the thread?
Actually I have, have you? DIdnt think so.
>Yes, my thread on the top 20 heavyweights was a mistake.
Who was your #1 Hulk Hogan or stone cold austin?
>Besides, I can't seem to remember, oh, *any* of your contributions to the
>forum. :shrug:
I dont post to the alt.fan.macho-man newsgroup.
Isaiah
> Considering that Goldberg has trained for MMA fighting, he's fair game. And
> like I said, if matched against someone like Cro-Cop, he'd be destroyed.
> Doesn't make him any less of a draw for fans. Or change the fact that the fight
> would be legit.
I wouldn't be so quick to write Goldberg off, even against the big
three Pride heavies. Look how well an unskilled slug like Bob Sapp did
against Minotauro. Size and athleticism do matter and I imagine
Goldberg will show more skill than Sapp.
> Don't forget that many pro wrestlers have legitimate amateur pasts (Kurt Angle
> is a former olympic gold medalist, Brock Lesnar is a Division I-A champ, the
> late Curt Hennig was an olympic alternate, etc). Also, with the exception of
> the wrestlers who had trained in the shootstyle their entire career (see:
> Sakuraba or Ken Shamrock), pro wrestlers in the past have faired poorly (see:
> Nagata vs. Cro-Cop).
Angle would probably be the best wrestler to ever compete in MMA if he
were to go that route so I wouldn't count him out. Kevin Jackson, who
rivals Mark Coleman as the current holder of that distinction, did not
do well, but I think Angle would be more prepared. As for Lesnar, see
what I wrote about Goldberg and add in the fact that Brock is even
more impressive physically and is a world-class wrestler. I'd pay
whatever they charged to see him fight Emelianenko (sp?).
-Isaiah
Johnc3382
i hav ewatched fernely feliz-remember him he fought john ruiz on show time get
manhandled by a brazilian jui-jitsu BLue Blet,,,,,,,,,,blue belt dude,thats 1
year of training the first belt that they get
fernely went rounds with the guy ever time he punched he was greabbed pushed to
the ropes ,tripped and taken down,,,,,he is a awsome defensive boxer,but boxers
cant wrestle,sorry to break your little bubble
Krazy K
> >
> >MMA fighting is more intense than boxing these days.
>
> No it isnt.
MMA takes more of a toll on your body.
> >Spectacular KO's
> >often occur.
>
> Spectacular if you mean the ref stopping the fight after any landed punch.
Same as boxing.
> >Also, boxers aren't complete fighters,
>
> In ufc boxers would have a good chance because all they would have to do is
> train to land one punch.
LMAO. So far, boxers haven't done well in NHB. An amateur mma fighter
would have no problem defeating a good pro boxer, most of the time.
> >destroy the most elite pro boxer with impunity.
>
> Destroy under ufc rules, meaning if the boxer falls to the ground the ref >stops
> it in 2 seconds.
Maybe you should actually *watch* some NHB fights before you make
ridiculous assumptions.
Kent
Chris Carver
> the atomic leg drop will do the trick.
You keep comparing MMA grappling to "professional wrestling" such as
WWF and so forth. Do you actually believe that real grappling like
judo and ju-jitsu are somehow fake or staged? I assure you, there's
nothing at all fake about their techniques.
Johnc3382
a good AMATEUR NHB fighter will take a good boxer apart,,,they will get them
down and submit them
boxers have one chance a lucky punch in the beginning of the first exchange,,as
soon as they tie up the boxer is done,
maybe you should watch nhb
also everyone knows about how fernado vargas got choked out bye a purple belt
in a bar over a girl,,,the guy was a purple belt in bjj , he wasnt vene a NHb
fighter
Krazy K
That'd be silly.
> Anyhow, boxing is a different sport to martial arts and wrestling.
> One thing does seem apparent though - no boxer at the top of his game will
> compete in non boxing sports,
Why should they? I wouldn't either if I was getting paid big $$$.
> its usually the fact that they're offered money to re-invent themselves in
> other sports, when their boxing career is basically over.
Basically true. However, a great pro boxer would be no match for a
great mma fighter. Just look at how pathetic Botha, Butterbean,
Phillips..etc have done just in K-1, *not* NHB. If a 'decent' pro
boxer can't even beat a 'decent'
"Kicker" then they have no business in NHB where the complete fighters
dwell.
> Are you suggesting that MMA somehow resembles a "streetfight"?
> In which case, I dont agree.
>
> Mr.Will
In a streetfight, a *complete* fighter usually dominates. Boxers train
to punch, not grapple/execute submissions..etc. In the street, boxers
don't have 10-12 rounds to dispatch of their opponent, so the odds go
to the mma fighter for being able to end a fight very quickly, as
trained, with an arsenal of strategic, yet strict, maneuvers, if
necessary. Also, I would ask you to watch, if possible, some WVC, or
other forms of Brazilian Vale Tudo, which is similar to
streetfighting, at times. One more thing, in mma, most fighters wear 4
0z. gloves, not 10,12,16. This means their punch, if connected, will
have more impact. Ask yourself why boxers don't wear 4 oz. gloves and
you'll get the picture.
Kent
Mr.Will
> "Mr.Will" <mr....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:<O_Gcc.213$jM6.85@newsfe1-win>...
> > "Krazy K" <Groundan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:5dbdf251.04040...@posting.google.com...
> > > thegl...@aol.com (TheGloveGP) wrote in message
> > news:<20040406010658...@mb-m12.aol.com>...
> > One thing does seem apparent though - no boxer at the top of his game
will
> > compete in non boxing sports,
>
> Why should they? I wouldn't either if I was getting paid big $$$.
>
> > its usually the fact that they're offered money to re-invent themselves
in
> > other sports, when their boxing career is basically over.
>
> Basically true. However, a great pro boxer would be no match for a
> great mma fighter. Just look at how pathetic Botha, Butterbean,
> Phillips..etc have done just in K-1, *not* NHB. If a 'decent' pro
> boxer can't even beat a 'decent'
> "Kicker" then they have no business in NHB where the complete fighters
> dwell.
>
Botha has shown his lack of worth in the boxing ring,
as for Butterbean, if you take him seriously as a boxer, people would surely
be right to question your judgement.
As for the definition of a complete fighter, one would have to argue there
is no such thing anyway.
> > Are you suggesting that MMA somehow resembles a "streetfight"?
> > In which case, I dont agree.
> >
> > Mr.Will
>
> In a streetfight, a *complete* fighter usually dominates. Boxers train
> to punch, not grapple/execute submissions..etc. In the street, boxers
> don't have 10-12 rounds to dispatch of their opponent, so the odds go
> to the mma fighter for being able to end a fight very quickly, as
> trained, with an arsenal of strategic, yet strict, maneuvers, if
> necessary.
Well, in a streetfight anyone with ANY training is likely to win.
No half decent boxer would need 10 rounds to dispatch anyone in a
streetfight, one punch would do it easily.
If you are suggesting that boxers and MMA fighters fight on the street?
I arent sure I get you.
>Also, I would ask you to watch, if possible, some WVC, or
> other forms of Brazilian Vale Tudo, which is similar to
> streetfighting, at times. One more thing, in mma, most fighters wear 4
> 0z. gloves, not 10,12,16. This means their punch, if connected, will
> have more impact. Ask yourself why boxers don't wear 4 oz. gloves and
> you'll get the picture.
Odds are a fighter could be killed in boxing - thats why.
I think I see what you are trying to say, but if you think that a MMA artist
has a better punch than a boxer then I'd have to disgaree. After all these
MMA folk are not "complete" punchers.
I wouldn't expect a boxer to do very well in a tournament featuring
wrestlers etc. simply due to size differences and the fact that the wrestler
has far more moves at his disposal. I'd expect any of the MMA guys to be
just as bad if they had to fight under the rules of boxing.
Mr.Will
Mr.Will
> LMAO. So far, boxers haven't done well in NHB. An amateur mma fighter
> would have no problem defeating a good pro boxer, most of the time.
In wrestling or in boxing?
I really dont see the point to this discussion - a shotputter would lose to
a discus thrower if they were competing, hence the need for the different
events.
To those who think the rules of sport are interchangeable lets see how many
MMA would win in Sumo matches under the rules of Sumo.
Mr.Will
Chris Carver
On that I definitely agree with you. I haven't seen UFC lately,
however. Its probably been about 4 years.
DeadAndRestless
>three Pride heavies. Look how well an unskilled slug like Bob Sapp did
>against Minotauro. Size and athleticism do matter and I imagine
>Goldberg will show more skill than Sapp.
I don't think he's nearly as powerful. At least in MMA though, no one will get
upset when he doesn't pull his kicks.
>Angle would probably be the best wrestler to ever compete in MMA if he
>were to go that route so I wouldn't count him out. Kevin Jackson, who
>rivals Mark Coleman as the current holder of that distinction, did not
>do well, but I think Angle would be more prepared.
I don't know if Coleman or Jackson are it. Erikson was a hell of a wrestler
himself. Shame he's fighting in striking competitions now.
>As for Lesnar, see
>what I wrote about Goldberg and add in the fact that Brock is even
>more impressive physically and is a world-class wrestler.
You know, a lot of people (myself included) scoffed when he announced he wanted
to play in the NFL. Then he put up a 4.65 40 and a 35 inch vertical leap at 283
lbs. I'd love to see him do it, just to piss off people who say wrestlers
aren't athletes.
>I'd pay
>whatever they charged to see him fight Emelianenko (sp?).
He might fend off Fedor for awhile...I think he'd eventually get GnPed though.
-
Alan
DeadAndRestless
>>Did you
>>even hear of PRIDE before the thread?
>
>Actually I have, have you? DIdnt think so.
Which is why I've talked about it on Sherdog? lol
>Who was your #1 Hulk Hogan or stone cold austin?
Why do you keep referring back to pro wrestling? Any particular reason?
>I dont post to the alt.fan.macho-man newsgroup.
Neither do I. I have, however, posted here for the last 3 years or so.
Interesting how that works out, no?
-
Alan
Araxen
>>I think the UFC will overtake boxing in popularity if it keeps having
>>exciting fight cards, as has been the case recently.
>
>
> I doubt it. UFC has some problems, mainly a lot of the top MMA fighters dont
> even fightt for ufc and second their fights are ended way to quickly. They
> pride themselves on being safe and never having a death in the ring. Almost
> every fight you see if one solid punch is landed the fight is stopped right
> away. A guy could get hit by a punch that really isnt even a great punch, fall
> to the mat and as he is getting up immediately after hitting the mat, showing
> he obviously wasnt hurt too bad, the ref is waiving in his face the fights
> over. A great boxer would probably have good success in ufc because all he
> would have to do is train to try and quickly land the first punch and you can
> almost gaurantee the ref is going to stop it. Its a joke.
How do you explain Tyson in his hey day? He had many 1 round KO's on
PPV? He still put asses in the seats and generated alot of buyrates for
the PPV's despite have very quick matches.
It takes alot more than just getting a lucky punch if a MMA regular
knows you're just a boxer. The Boxer will not survive. Just ask
Butterbean how easily he was tapped out by a MMA fighter named Genki
Sudo(iirc). Sudo weighed 1/4 of what Butterbean weighs and he still
tapped Butterbean.
Boxers have no chance in MMA if they don't have take down defense and
don't know at least a little about ground defense, and that doesn't even
consider submission defense. There's alot more to know in a MMA match
than you realize.
Araxen
> "TheGloveGP" <thegl...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040406050832...@mb-m12.aol.com...
>
>>>That's crap. The other night Robbie Lawler got dropped face first by a
>>>single hook.
>>
>>Of which he was getting right back up on his feet as the ref was ruining
>
> his
>
>>year by stopping it.
>
>
> First of all, he didn't just pop right up. When he got up, after the ref
> pulled Diaz away from Lawler, Robbie was unable to stand and fell back
> against the ropes. He was still wobbling around the ring while Diaz was
> yelling, "What up?" If you wanted the fight to continue, it would have put
> Lawler at unnecessary risk of more serious injury.
>
> Whatever floats your boat.
>
>
Plus you didn't see Robbie bitching up a storm that the fight was ended
early. He knew he was a beat man otherwise you would have seen a very
pissed man.
Araxen
I agree here. I enjoy the ground game immensely and it's what drew me to
the sport.
Araxen
>>I wouldn't be so quick to write Goldberg off, even against the big
>>three Pride heavies. Look how well an unskilled slug like Bob Sapp did
>>against Minotauro. Size and athleticism do matter and I imagine
>>Goldberg will show more skill than Sapp.
>
>
> I don't think he's nearly as powerful. At least in MMA though, no one will get
> upset when he doesn't pull his kicks.
>
>
>>Angle would probably be the best wrestler to ever compete in MMA if he
>>were to go that route so I wouldn't count him out. Kevin Jackson, who
>>rivals Mark Coleman as the current holder of that distinction, did not
>>do well, but I think Angle would be more prepared.
>
>
> I don't know if Coleman or Jackson are it. Erikson was a hell of a wrestler
> himself. Shame he's fighting in striking competitions now.
>
>
>>As for Lesnar, see
>>what I wrote about Goldberg and add in the fact that Brock is even
>>more impressive physically and is a world-class wrestler.
>
>
> You know, a lot of people (myself included) scoffed when he announced he wanted
> to play in the NFL. Then he put up a 4.65 40 and a 35 inch vertical leap at 283
> lbs. I'd love to see him do it, just to piss off people who say wrestlers
> aren't athletes.
>
>
I'm sure he'll do it. He's a very gifted person athletics wise.
Chris Carver
> as for Butterbean, if you take him seriously as a boxer, people would surely
> be right to question your judgement.
> As for the definition of a complete fighter, one would have to argue there
> is no such thing anyway.
I'll give you that. The boxers who've tried K1 and failed aren't
representative of the entire sport. But they certainly were more
complete punchers than their foes and they still failed miserably.
That has to count for something.
> Well, in a streetfight anyone with ANY training is likely to win.
> No half decent boxer would need 10 rounds to dispatch anyone in a
> streetfight, one punch would do it easily.
> If you are suggesting that boxers and MMA fighters fight on the street?
> I arent sure I get you.
I agree here. I'm not sure what he was suggesting, but I think MMA
fights resemble a street fight moreso than boxing. But it is still
not like a real street fight and shouldn't be considered as such.
> Odds are a fighter could be killed in boxing - thats why.
> I think I see what you are trying to say, but if you think that a MMA artist
> has a better punch than a boxer then I'd have to disgaree. After all these
> MMA folk are not "complete" punchers.
Definitely right, but an MMA artist is still capable of a very good
knockout punch. Just because they aren't complete punchers, doesn't
mean they don't have a killer punch. It really doesn't take too much
to knock a man out or at least incapacitate him. I would argue all
decent heavy weight boxers have it, most mma artists who are strikers
do. I guess my point is, that a boxer's superior punching ability
doesn't nullify that of an mma artist. Anything can still happen.
> I wouldn't expect a boxer to do very well in a tournament featuring
> wrestlers etc. simply due to size differences and the fact that the wrestler
> has far more moves at his disposal. I'd expect any of the MMA guys to be
> just as bad if they had to fight under the rules of boxing.
>
> Mr.Will
I think you'd be right on all points mentioned, however, the wrestlers
we (or myself anyway) are talking about are your typical judo and
ju-jitsu students who are oftentimes smaller than a heavyweight boxer.
Chris Carver
> I really dont see the point to this discussion - a shotputter would lose to
> a discus thrower if they were competing, hence the need for the different
> events.
Definitely. As much as I love talking about my two favorite sports,
this is really getting tiring :)
> To those who think the rules of sport are interchangeable lets see how many
> MMA would win in Sumo matches under the rules of Sumo.
>
> Mr.Will
LOL, exactly. Good analogy.
TheGloveGP
Whats that have to do with premature stoppages? Most of tysons knockouts, even
the quick ones were because the guy was extremely hurt, like trevor berbick or
the guy obviously didnt want to fight, kind of like michael spinks.
>The Boxer will not survive.
Yea sure he wont.
>Just ask
>Butterbean how easily he w
Good example, butterbean, did skreech from saved by the bell box because he
would be an even better example.
>Boxers have no chance in MMA if they don't have take down defense
yea because a ufc fight is never stopped just from punches, even punches that
arent even landing.
TheGloveGP
Yea sure you have, and Im the son of eddie futch,
>what have you done except sucked dick?
How brilliant, were you trained in comedy under eddie murphy? Probably Paulie
shore.
>but boxers
>cant wrestle,sorry to break your little bubble
And wrestlers cant punch.
TheGloveGP
Crackin yourself up? Pathetic.
>Neither do I. I have, however, posted here for the last 3 years or so.
>Interesting how that works out, no?
Wow, im very proud of you.
DeadAndRestless
>> as for Butterbean, if you take him seriously as a boxer, people would
>surely
>> be right to question your judgement.
>> As for the definition of a complete fighter, one would have to argue there
>> is no such thing anyway.
>
>I'll give you that. The boxers who've tried K1 and failed aren't
>representative of the entire sport. But they certainly were more
>complete punchers than their foes and they still failed miserably.
>That has to count for something.
>
Botha at the very least is a top 20 heavyweight, and frankly, for all the talk
of boxing's superiority, he should be doing better than 0-4 in striking only
matches. He's lucky they didn't make him have to try a sprawl or takedown
defense.
-
Alan
TheGloveGP
>representative of the entire sport. But they certainly were more
>complete punchers than their foes and they still failed miserably.
>That has to count for something.
Tonya Harding could probably beat butterbean he lost in K!? so what.
TheGloveGP
>MMA takes more of a toll on your body.
Sure it does, how about your brain, go ask gerald mcclellan or evander
holyfield about that. Maybe Meldrick Taylor might have some insight on that as
well.
>> Spectacular if you mean the ref stopping the fight after any landed punch.
>
>Same as boxing.
Yea, you never watch boxing i see.
>An amateur mma fighter
>would have no problem defeating a good pro boxer, most of the time.
Not if it was a ufc fight, and if it was a boxing match he the mma fighter
would get killed even with one hand tied behind the boxers back.
>Maybe you should actually *watch* some NHB fights before you make
>ridiculous assumptions.
This coming from a guy that says boxing matches are stopped after any landed
punch.