Kessler v Ward
Walter Mitty
Firstly kudos to Ward : great speed and wonderful skills.
Secondly : that bout should be re-fought. BOTH Kessler's injuries
came from blatant headbutts. The second one in particular which caused
the stoppage cut almost took Kessler's head off.
Would the result have been any different? Who knows. Kessler was sharp
enough but with the dreaded bogeyman of a cut stoppage looming as well
as impinged vision and a sever headache no doubt from the illegal
butts.
Two great fighters however.
--
What is New Zealands contribution to carbon emisions? Dropping off the Wallabies on the way home.
Steen
>
> Firstly kudos to Ward : great speed and wonderful skills.
>
> Secondly : that bout should be re-fought. BOTH Kessler's injuries
> came from blatant headbutts. The second one in particular which caused
> the stoppage cut almost took Kessler's head off.
>
> Would the result have been any different? Who knows. Kessler was sharp
> enough but with the dreaded bogeyman of a cut stoppage looming as well
> as impinged vision and a sever headache no doubt from the illegal
> butts.
>
> Two great fighters however.
As a Dane I hate to admit it, but if they had gone all 12 rounds, I
still think Ward would have won the fight!
Kessler is one of the greatest danish fighters ever, but last night he
looked like hi was a bit confused by Wards power.
Maybe because I watched the fight on a crummy little flash player on my
computer, but this was far from one of Kesslers best fights.
Sad but true, Mikkel Kessler was outpowered by Ward, and only a KO
could have turned the fight around for him.
Maybe a better quality video will be available in a few days - but this
is nok a fight I will save on my computer as a great moment in boxing
Walter Mitty
Ward was the better of the two. But not by a HUGE margin. Kessler often
takes time to work out his approach. The butts kind of made that hard.
All that said, I was *very* impressed by Ward. Took me back a couple of
decades to Ray Leonard era. Fast, skilled, elusive. There might be a
budding great there.
SkippyPB
wrote:
Truth be told from an unbiased source - the head butts had little to
do with Kessler losing. Sure he got cut and Ward didn't but head
butts hurt both guys. After all you can't be headbutted by air!
After Kessler was rocked by a Ward uppercut in the 4th (I believe it
was) Kessler was never as agressive as he was in the first four rounds
and that allowed Ward to do pretty much anything he wanted. Ward
fought Kesseler in the same manner as Calzaghe had fought him Is it
any woner they both beat Kesseler?
Regards,
--
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-
"Always be sincere, even when you don't mean it."
-- Irene Peter
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remove nospam to email me.
Steve
Walter Mitty
Big time disagree. A butt like that one which cut him leaves permanent
damage.
And I have no vested interest in Kessler.
As for hurting both guys : nonsense. A thick skull plate smashing into
the soft skin around the eye is a one way thing pretty much.
>
> After Kessler was rocked by a Ward uppercut in the 4th (I believe it
> was) Kessler was never as agressive as he was in the first four rounds
> and that allowed Ward to do pretty much anything he wanted. Ward
> fought Kesseler in the same manner as Calzaghe had fought him Is it
> any woner they both beat Kesseler?
Ward was a hundred times better than Calzaghe was against Kessler. That
is not the point. The point is that the butts did have a HUGE impact on
Kessler's ability to fight fair.
He almost took Kessler's head off with the one where he lowered hi head
and ran into Kessler. Kessler actually fell back and complained :
something he never usually does.
>
> Regards,
> --
> ////
> (o o)
> -oOO--(_)--OOo-
>
> "Always be sincere, even when you don't mean it."
> -- Irene Peter
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Remove nospam to email me.
>
> Steve
--
Geotg...@live.com
> Firstly kudos to Ward : great speed and wonderful skills.
>
> Secondly : that bout should be re-fought. BOTH Kessler's injuries
> came from blatant headbutts. The second one in particular which caused
> the stoppage cut almost took Kessler's head off.
>
> Would the result have been any different? Who knows. Kessler was sharp
> enough but with the dreaded bogeyman of a cut stoppage looming as well
> as impinged vision and a sever headache no doubt from the illegal
> butts.
>
> Two great fighters however.
Kessler didn't turn up, he looked slow, totally uninterested and I
know he's been inactive but it surprised me how fat he looked compared
to his previous fights (Andrade, Calzaghe) . His defence also looked
much worse, not just this fight but in the 2 previous fights against
low quality opponents.
His trainer said on Danish TV DRTV that Kessler is a confidence
fighter and to me after his first loss he doesn't look the same
mentally. He fought much better against Andrade and Calzaghe.
Walter Mitty
> On 22 Nov, 04:34, Walter Mitty <mitti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Firstly kudos to Ward : great speed and wonderful skills.
>>
>> Secondly : that bout should be re-fought. BOTH Kessler's injuries
>> came from blatant headbutts. The second one in particular which caused
>> the stoppage cut almost took Kessler's head off.
>>
>> Would the result have been any different? Who knows. Kessler was sharp
>> enough but with the dreaded bogeyman of a cut stoppage looming as well
>> as impinged vision and a sever headache no doubt from the illegal
>> butts.
>>
>> Two great fighters however.
>
> Kessler didn't turn up, he looked slow, totally uninterested and I
> know he's been inactive but it surprised me how fat he looked compared
He was fast, fit and up for it.
He had little answer to Ward's fast combinations however.
> to his previous fights (Andrade, Calzaghe) . His defence also looked
> much worse, not just this fight but in the 2 previous fights against
> low quality opponents.
His defense wasn't bad at all considering what he was up against
especially after the butts.
> His trainer said on Danish TV DRTV that Kessler is a confidence
> fighter and to me after his first loss he doesn't look the same
> mentally. He fought much better against Andrade and Calzaghe.
I totally disagree : it was stopped because of cuts from illegal
butts. Yes he was behind on points. But I think you're too quick to
rubbish him.
I can't see Froch beating either of them.
danstearns
hmm, i just don't think Kessler was going to win this one headbutts or
no headbutts.I mean i've always liked kessler, but what's he done post-
Calzage? Not much of anything, a lot of bottom-feeding and living off
a good effort, but that's no way to stay Sharp. Frosch is up next for
him ,right? Should be an interesting fight there, as i really think
Kessler's confidence is going to be limping now, whereas Frosch is
always operating above his talent on the residual payback of a
comically overinflated opinion of himself, and a lot of raw grit too
of course.......meanwhile, it looks like Taylor is sticking around
(bad idea IMO, no matter what happens), so he'd be Ward's next
opponent, right? But styles make fights, and that ones actually not so
easy to call if some form of a half-motivated and not dead-man-walking
JT shows up........also Dirrell v Abraham is not so easy a pick
either......but Abraham is looking pretty good for the moment based on
his overall sturdiness and ability to eventually catch most guys,
regardless of style. Anyway, so far the super six has been a gas, with
a few surprises and a lot of intrigue around the corner!
Walter Mitty
I just dont think Kessler was that much less than he was before. But
Ward was superb as well as dirty.
Once more : I think Ward would have had the edge without the butts. But
the butts made a HUGE difference. Anyone that thinks a fight ending cut
caused by a butt early in the fight is not going to hinder the guy on
the receiving end is off the mark. Especially when its a cut above the
eye which hinders sight. Kessler also has a record of finishing
strongly. Even coming up to the cut Kessler was still in with a chance
of landing a show stopper. But kudos to Ward : few people predicted that
performance - butts or no butts.
p.e.r.i.o.d.i.c.
Walter Mitty <mitt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just dont think Kessler was that much less than he was before. But
> Ward was superb as well as dirty.
>
> Once more : I think Ward would have had the edge without the butts. But
> the butts made a HUGE difference. Anyone that thinks a fight ending cut
> caused by a butt early in the fight is not going to hinder the guy on
> the receiving end is off the mark. Especially when its a cut above the
> eye which hinders sight. Kessler also has a record of finishing
> strongly. Even coming up to the cut Kessler was still in with a chance
> of landing a show stopper. But kudos to Ward : few people predicted that
> performance - butts or no butts.
I thought (and I haven't seen him fight before) that
Ward was brilliant. Nobody but him and God know if the
butts were intentional - but I have to say that having
read and heard a great deal of Wards ethical positions,
his stand-up qualities, and his all-around belief in
a fair fight, that the butts were not intentional.
Look.....action in the ring is fast and furious.
Accidents happen all the time. I thought it was
a fair fight, and I will also say that I am
mightily impressed with Wards ring-generalship and
his smooth and fluent movements. He looks like a
champ in the making. He made Kessler look like a
piker, butts or no.
The other thing that bothers me - and I noticed
this with Froch too - they have NOTHING good to say
about their opponents after the fight. Ward had
very good things to say about Kessler, calling
him a great champ. But Kessler himself (as well as
Froch) only whined and whimpered. Wah wah wah.
Poor me. I find it to be extremely poor sportsmanship.
........
Walter Mitty
> In article <hech29$9v5$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Walter Mitty <mitt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I just dont think Kessler was that much less than he was before. But
>> Ward was superb as well as dirty.
>>
>> Once more : I think Ward would have had the edge without the butts. But
>> the butts made a HUGE difference. Anyone that thinks a fight ending cut
>> caused by a butt early in the fight is not going to hinder the guy on
>> the receiving end is off the mark. Especially when its a cut above the
>> eye which hinders sight. Kessler also has a record of finishing
>> strongly. Even coming up to the cut Kessler was still in with a chance
>> of landing a show stopper. But kudos to Ward : few people predicted that
>> performance - butts or no butts.
>
> I thought (and I haven't seen him fight before) that
> Ward was brilliant. Nobody but him and God know if the
He was very good.
> butts were intentional - but I have to say that having
If? 100% sure they were.
> read and heard a great deal of Wards ethical positions,
> his stand-up qualities, and his all-around belief in
> a fair fight, that the butts were not intentional.
Then watch the fight. The second was majorly intentional.
>
> Look.....action in the ring is fast and furious.
> Accidents happen all the time. I thought it was
No they don't. They happen rarely enough. Not "all the time".
> a fair fight, and I will also say that I am
The you don't watch much boxing. It was not fair because the TWO
headbutts went unpunished and severely impacted Kessler. This is not
guess work. This is fact.
It is possible you know to accept this but still accept Ward was the
better guy on the night you know.
> mightily impressed with Wards ring-generalship and
> his smooth and fluent movements. He looks like a
> champ in the making. He made Kessler look like a
> piker, butts or no.
Not in my opinion. He dominated but I have to wonder how much was
because of the butts. Kessler was still dangerous and was landing with some
good body and head shots before the stoppage (from the cutt from the
butt...).
> The other thing that bothers me - and I noticed
> this with Froch too - they have NOTHING good to say
> about their opponents after the fight. Ward had
> very good things to say about Kessler, calling
> him a great champ. But Kessler himself (as well as
> Froch) only whined and whimpered. Wah wah wah.
> Poor me. I find it to be extremely poor sportsmanship.
Oh do give up your whining man. Kessler was stopped because of a cut
from illegal head butts. And it was more than one. What did you expect
him to say? He took SOME shots from Ward but maybe one rocked him.
Kessler had every right to be aggrieved.
Walter Mitty
> In article <heeral$20s$3...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Walter Mitty <mitt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Oh do give up your whining man. Kessler was stopped because of a cut
>> from illegal head butts.
>
> Up yours, joker. I'll state my opinions where and where
> I want to, and if you don't like it I have several
> suggestions as to what you can do with it.
I see you snipped that bit where you accused a top fighter like Kessler
of whining. So fuck you too ...
>
> Kessler was roundly beaten and he knows it. You'd
> know it too, if you weren't the self-appointed
> know-it-all of the boxing world.
You're either naturally dense or punchy.
I said multiple times that I thought Ward dominated.
> Now let's see some more whining from you.
Why? All I need to do is point at what I said : not what some dumb fuck
like you claims I said. As usual with your type : you get reasoned out
of it and you turn to vitriol. Good on you! You impress us all!
One more for the hard of thinking (you) : Ward dominated. However
Kessler was NOT out of the fight. Kessler WAS injured by illegal head
butts. Kessler was impinged by the illegal head butts. Kessler WAS cut
by an illegal head butt.
Hint for you Einstein : the fight was stopped and went to the score
sheets BECAUSE he was cut from a head butt.
Difficult for you I know. But DO TRY to think before you post ....
Walter Mitty
> In article <heffjr$lcl$2...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Walter Mitty <mitt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hint for you Einstein : the fight was stopped and went to the score
>> sheets BECAUSE he was cut from a head butt.
>
> You are perhaps the thickest idiot I've yet
> encountered in this group. Was the head-butt
> ruled intentional? I've examined the second
> one several times in slow-motion, and Ward was
> on his way in hard. There was no untoward or unnatural
> movement of Wards head in that move. Kesslers head
> was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
>
> As I said, and will repeat, accidental head-butts
> are not at all uncommon in this game.
That one that Kessler pulled away from was not an accident IMO. It
alomst took his head off.
But that is immaterial : there were TWO. One almost took his head
off. BOTH cut him.
>
> But I
> can tell you are incapable of listening to anything
> but what your all-knowing boxing mind tells you,
> so please - carry on.
Listening to what? What I have stated are facts. What you have stated is
some big shot whining about how Kessler is a little girl for complaining
at receiving two illegal head butts which resulted in two cuts which
ultimately resulted in the fight being stopped.
At NO point in this thread have I said that Ward was not the better
fighter in what we saw.
>
>>
>> Difficult for you I know. But DO TRY to think before you post ....
>
> Your enthusiasm for reasoned thinking seems WELL
> under control.
You saying this does not make it so. Pretty much everything I have said
has had supporting facts. The facts are : two head buttss resulted in
two cuts. One butt would have hurt Kessler a lot. A cut from the butts
stopped the fight.
If you think that is nothing to complain about then you're a bigger
moron than even I thought.
>
> By the way - were you toilet-trained at gunpoint?
>
> <ker-plonk>
Buh bye ....
--
Melanie Ley
wrote:
>Not in my opinion. He dominated but I have to wonder how much was
>because of the butts. Kessler was still dangerous and was landing with some
>good body and head shots before the stoppage (from the cutt from the
>butt...).
In my opinion, it didn't appear that Kessler was ever "in" the
fight, even before the head butts. I've never seen him before, so his
mechanical style might be who he is.
Andre has never fought "dirty" in his life and I can't see him
adding that to his arsenal now.
Mel
________________________
Amateur boxing news
at www.amateurboxing.com
Walter Mitty
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:29:08 +0100, Walter Mitty <mitt...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Not in my opinion. He dominated but I have to wonder how much was
>>because of the butts. Kessler was still dangerous and was landing with some
>>good body and head shots before the stoppage (from the cutt from the
>>butt...).
>
> In my opinion, it didn't appear that Kessler was ever "in" the
> fight, even before the head butts. I've never seen him before, so his
> mechanical style might be who he is.
How ridiculous.
Ward was faster. Faster fighters have been caught before. Ward shook
Kessler with that one upper cut in the 4th or so. The rest of the time
most of his punches missed of hit glove. kessler caught Ward a few
goodies in 10 I think it was. Both fighters throwing very, very fast
combos and Ward no way dominating at that stage the way some would have
you believe.
Once more : yes Ward was in the lead. Yes he was faster.
That does not alter the fact that only someone who as never been in the
ring would think for even a second that those butts did not adversely
affect Kessler's performance. He is also known to be a strong finisher :
with his power he could still (however unlikely) have stopped Ward. God
knows it has happened before.
>
> Andre has never fought "dirty" in his life and I can't see him
> adding that to his arsenal now.
What you can or can not see is immaterial here. The bottom line is that
it was 2 head butts which damaged Kessler and caused the fight to be
stopped. One of which caused Kessler to lose his vision due to blood
dripping into his eye. These are facts.
>
> Mel
> ________________________
> Amateur boxing news
> at www.amateurboxing.com
--
Steen
> Oh do give up your whining man. Kessler was stopped because of a cut
> from illegal head butts. And it was more than one. What did you expect
> him to say? He took SOME shots from Ward but maybe one rocked him.
>
> Kessler had every right to be aggrieved.
And since we have seen a lot of interviews with Mikkel Kessler on
danish television after the fight, Kessler was not afraid of calling
Ward a great fighter. He agreed that the best man won, but at the same
time he was not pleased that an injury should stop the fight.
Walter Mitty
Exactly.
There is a trend here to take any form of defending a fighter as
rubbishing his opponent. No where did I rubbish Ward. But anyone who
thinks two illegal head butts which both cut Kessler early in the fight
had no impact on later developments is, frankly, an idiot.
Also all this halcyon hindsight garbage about Kessler not being the same
fighter is nothing more than imagination. He was pretty damn fit, strong
and fast. Unfortunately we saw someone who could be great in their
against him. Ward had Kessler on points a LOT more comfortably than
Calzaghe did : but ok Kessler went in to that Calzaghe fight not 100%
IMO.
rainy...@heaven.com
Walter Mitty <mitt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> But anyone who
> thinks two illegal head butts which both cut Kessler early in the fight
> had no impact on later developments is, frankly, an idiot.
And this is where you go off course. The butts were
NOT ruled illegal, and it is TOTALLY out of
character for Ward - a man of deep personal integrity -
to stoop to low tactics. It is totally IN character for
the loser to say they WERE illegal.
You need to learn more about boxing, man. An accidental
head butt that results in a loss means diddly shit in terms
of the final result. Get used to it.
Melanie Ley
wrote:
>> In my opinion, it didn't appear that Kessler was ever "in" the
>> fight, even before the head butts. I've never seen him before, so his
>> mechanical style might be who he is.
>
>How ridiculous.
As many of your opinions have been over the years.
>
>Ward was faster. Faster fighters have been caught before. Ward shook
>Kessler with that one upper cut in the 4th or so. The rest of the time
>most of his punches missed of hit glove. kessler caught Ward a few
>goodies in 10 I think it was. Both fighters throwing very, very fast
>combos and Ward no way dominating at that stage the way some would have
>you believe.
What does the above have to do with my observation about
Kessler? And, BTW, I do agree with what you said in the above.
>
>That does not alter the fact that only someone who as never been in the
>ring would think for even a second that those butts did not adversely
>affect Kessler's performance.
Did I say that? And, again, what does "never been in the
ring" have to do with anything? I've spent the last 22-1/2 years
judging what happens in the ring and I think I can perceive what
happens in the ring quite well.
>> Andre has never fought "dirty" in his life and I can't see him
>> adding that to his arsenal now.
>
>What you can or can not see is immaterial here.
Given that the accusation has been made that Andre fought
dirty, I was just giving my opinion.
>The bottom line is that
>it was 2 head butts which damaged Kessler and caused the fight to be
>stopped. One of which caused Kessler to lose his vision due to blood
>dripping into his eye. These are facts.
And I don't disagree with the facts. You are obviously a
rabid Kessler fan, so much so you don't seem to be able to have a calm
discussion of the fight or anyone's opinion other than your own.
All of the above is just my opinion, of course.
SkippyPB
wrote:
>Steen <ist...@googlemail.com> writes:
>
>> On 2009-11-23 21:29:08 +0100, Walter Mitty <mitt...@gmail.com> said:
>>
>>> Oh do give up your whining man. Kessler was stopped because of a cut
>>> from illegal head butts. And it was more than one. What did you expect
>>> him to say? He took SOME shots from Ward but maybe one rocked him.
>>>
>>> Kessler had every right to be aggrieved.
>>
>> And since we have seen a lot of interviews with Mikkel Kessler on
>> danish television after the fight, Kessler was not afraid of calling
>> Ward a great fighter. He agreed that the best man won, but at the same
>> time he was not pleased that an injury should stop the fight.
>
>Exactly.
>
>There is a trend here to take any form of defending a fighter as
>rubbishing his opponent. No where did I rubbish Ward. But anyone who
>thinks two illegal head butts which both cut Kessler early in the fight
>had no impact on later developments is, frankly, an idiot.
>
What illegal head butts? Where there any points deducted? Warnings
given? Unless there was, they were not and it is only your misguided
interpretation of what was happening that thinks they were illegal.
And since Ward's record doesn't include a "Yeah but he won this one
illegally", anyone else except you can accept that he was the better
fighter and he won fair and square.
>Also all this halcyon hindsight garbage about Kessler not being the same
>fighter is nothing more than imagination. He was pretty damn fit, strong
>and fast. Unfortunately we saw someone who could be great in their
>against him. Ward had Kessler on points a LOT more comfortably than
>Calzaghe did : but ok Kessler went in to that Calzaghe fight not 100%
>IMO.
>
>
Regards,
--
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-
"I never liked you, and I always will."
-- Samuel Goldwyn
Walter Mitty
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:40:00 +0100, Walter Mitty <mitt...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Steen <ist...@googlemail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 2009-11-23 21:29:08 +0100, Walter Mitty <mitt...@gmail.com> said:
>>>
>>>> Oh do give up your whining man. Kessler was stopped because of a cut
>>>> from illegal head butts. And it was more than one. What did you expect
>>>> him to say? He took SOME shots from Ward but maybe one rocked him.
>>>>
>>>> Kessler had every right to be aggrieved.
>>>
>>> And since we have seen a lot of interviews with Mikkel Kessler on
>>> danish television after the fight, Kessler was not afraid of calling
>>> Ward a great fighter. He agreed that the best man won, but at the same
>>> time he was not pleased that an injury should stop the fight.
>>
>>Exactly.
>>
>>There is a trend here to take any form of defending a fighter as
>>rubbishing his opponent. No where did I rubbish Ward. But anyone who
>>thinks two illegal head butts which both cut Kessler early in the fight
>>had no impact on later developments is, frankly, an idiot.
>>
>
> What illegal head butts? Where there any points deducted? Warnings
> given? Unless there was, they were not and it is only your misguided
> interpretation of what was happening that thinks they were illegal.
All head butts are illegal. I realise that might be hard for you to
take. Accident or not. They are not legal. Which is WHY it went to the
score cards and was not judged stoppage from a legal blow causing a cut.
Seriously, what has happened to common sense here recently?
As it is I think the second was intentional. At the very least him
running onto Kessler head lowered was extremely careless and worthy of
sanction at the time.
So once more : nothing "misguided" at all. The cuts WERE caused by
illegal head butts. BECAUSE of this the fight was stopped and went to
the cards.
You really are not making a good case here for your new ra-ra-ing of
Ward.
And, once more for the record, I thought Ward was amazing and would
probably have won regardless of the butts. As it is they certainly
benefited Ward more than Kessler ...
It seems the art of balanced appraisal is not appreciated any more and
its somehow "bad" to somehow point out low points in a bout or someones
performance.
Geotg...@live.com
?? His interview after the Calzaghe fight clears up it was just a
rumour in the press, he says his right hand wasn't injured before or
during the fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4DF8p5Wzww.
Kessler has gone missing since 2007, I have no doubt it's damaged his
progress as a fighter after seeing his fights since 2005 live in
Denmark. In 2007 he was at his peak, he dominated Librado Andrade and
won a 12 round shutout (Andrade later knocked out Bute but was robbed
by the Canadian home ref's count). He then fought an excellent fight
against Calzaghe (ok, he only won 3 rounds on the judges cards but
there was no headbutts and holding, he was just outboxed in a fair
fight.) The 2008-2009 period has been 3 journeymen, and a marked poor
defense from him even against these journeymen.
pablo
From the very start, I was surprised by Ward's confidence and
accuracy, and surprised by Kessler's lack thereof.
The first rounds were tactical, but there was no mistaking Ward was
establishing a key tactical advantage and getting the nod on the
scorecards.
The headbutts (and I agree Ward should have been warned about charging
in headfirst, but it happens when a fighter tries to get in while
minimizing the ability to get caught by a straight punch) made a
difference indeed, they took away Kessler's puncher's chance. Alas, I
kind of doubt he would have been able to leverage it, he seemed to be
caught in a severe off night... or perhaps his time is over.
Ward looked very good. Ward's weakness continues to be his lack of
punching power.
SkippyPB
wrote:
Once again I ask, please show me the ruling by the referee that said
the butts were anything but accidental. Otherwise, you're just
whining about nothing.
ddc...@yahoo.com
beaten Tyson. It's interesting that Holly generally did not
headbutt---
against Tyson he had to just to survive.
SkippyPB
Another fairy tale. And if Tyson hadn't eaten Holyfield's ear,
Evander would still be whole.
Regards,
--
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-
"Of course I can keep secrets. It's the people
I tell them to that can't keep them."
-- Anthony Haden-Guest
ne...@millions.com
Interesting theory.
DCI
ddc...@yahoo.com
> On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 20:00:17 -0800 (PST), "ddca...@yahoo.com"
>
> <ddca...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Without the headbutts (both fights), Holyfield could never have
> >beaten Tyson. It's interesting that Holly generally did not
> >headbutt---
> >against Tyson he had to just to survive.
>
> Interesting theory.
>
> DCI
If we objectively look at both fights, we can see it.
Esp. in the second fight, EH should have been
dq'd right after that butt which broke open that
huge cut over the eye.
ne...@millions.com
. . . and therefore?
DCI
ddc...@yahoo.com
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:18:40 -0800 (PST), "ddca...@yahoo.com"
>
> - Show quoted text -
and therefore: Reagan said to Kruschev: "I'm gonn
to hurt you, Commie."
And with that, Kruschev aimed his head at Ronnie's
eye and gave it a tremendous headbutt.
Reagan tried to feast on Kruschev's ear but missed
and fell down, crying: "Please don't hit me, Nikky."
Kruschev: "You pathetic sissy."
ne...@millions.com
And then you woke up.
DCI
STRATEGY
Hasim Rahman says hi.
STRATEGY
Melanie Ley
Not sure what the above means but.......tell Hasim I said hi
back!