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Prime Louis vs Prime Liston who wins
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savair
Apr 5, 2013, 11:00:07 PM4/5/13
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Let me explain the reasoning behind this question, I know that when Ali fought Liston he beat him psychologically first and physically second. In other words he made him think he was crazy which worked against Liston. However, I do not see Louis trying to beat Liston this way. Would Liston be afraid of Louis? If not what do you see happening in the fight?
DCI
Apr 6, 2013, 7:45:10 AM4/6/13
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On Friday, April 5, 2013 8:00:07 PM UTC-7, savair wrote:
> Let me explain the reasoning behind this question, I know that when Ali fought Liston he beat him psychologically first and physically second. In other words he made him think he was crazy which worked against Liston. However, I do not see Louis trying to beat Liston this way. Would Liston be afraid of Louis? If not what do you see happening in the fight?
Some years back, and I don't remember the specifics of the occasion, a writer asked what was the most dangerous fighter he had ever seen. The answer was simple. Joe Louis sleeping on a table 15 minutes before fight time.
> Let me explain the reasoning behind this question, I know that when Ali fought Liston he beat him psychologically first and physically second. In other words he made him think he was crazy which worked against Liston. However, I do not see Louis trying to beat Liston this way. Would Liston be afraid of Louis? If not what do you see happening in the fight?
Liston was a perfect target for Louis.
DCI
SkippyPB
Apr 6, 2013, 11:59:21 AM4/6/13
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have been a no contest fight.
Regards,
--
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-
My Dictionary: Experience: The name men give to their mistakes.
-- Unknown
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remove nospam to email me.
Steve
Loki
Apr 6, 2013, 1:44:03 PM4/6/13
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On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 11:59:21 -0400, SkippyPB
<swie...@Nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 6 Apr 2013 04:45:10 -0700 (PDT), DCI <50b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Friday, April 5, 2013 8:00:07 PM UTC-7, savair wrote:
>>> Let me explain the reasoning behind this question, I know that when Ali fought Liston he beat him psychologically first and physically second. In other words he made him think he was crazy which worked against Liston. However, I do not see Louis trying to beat Liston this way. Would Liston be afraid of Louis? If not what do you see happening in the fight?
>>
>>Some years back, and I don't remember the specifics of the occasion, a writer asked what was the most dangerous fighter he had ever seen. The answer was simple. Joe Louis sleeping on a table 15 minutes before fight time.
>>
>>Liston was a perfect target for Louis.
>>
>>DCI
>
>Exactly. Louis, as Ali was, was so much better than Liston it would
>have been a no contest fight.
The question is trickier than the responses are suggesting. People are
<swie...@Nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 6 Apr 2013 04:45:10 -0700 (PDT), DCI <50b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Friday, April 5, 2013 8:00:07 PM UTC-7, savair wrote:
>>> Let me explain the reasoning behind this question, I know that when Ali fought Liston he beat him psychologically first and physically second. In other words he made him think he was crazy which worked against Liston. However, I do not see Louis trying to beat Liston this way. Would Liston be afraid of Louis? If not what do you see happening in the fight?
>>
>>Some years back, and I don't remember the specifics of the occasion, a writer asked what was the most dangerous fighter he had ever seen. The answer was simple. Joe Louis sleeping on a table 15 minutes before fight time.
>>
>>Liston was a perfect target for Louis.
>>
>>DCI
>
>Exactly. Louis, as Ali was, was so much better than Liston it would
>have been a no contest fight.
judging Liston based on the Clay/Ali fights. Though his prime was
several years earlier. It is as foolish as judging Louis based on the
first Walcott fight, Ali based on the Spinks fights, Dempsey based on
Tunney etc. etc.
I still think that prime Louis would beat prime Liston, but I would
make it an 8-5 fight at best. If the odds were greater than that I
would put my money on Sonny.
Loki
Driving a small car to compensate for my oversized genitalia.
savair
Apr 7, 2013, 2:21:13 PM4/7/13
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Maybe if I reword my original statement people would understand it more. When Ali fought Liston, he thought it through and wanted Liston to think he was crazy. His reason for him doing this was because Liston had been in prison and the word in prison is you never mess with the crazy person. So Ali acted crazy, thus scaring Liston and therefore beating him in the ring. Louis was intimidating yes but differently, he would not trash talk or cause a riot at a weigh in like Ali did. The question is would that kind of intimidation even work on Liston, if they had fought. Would these men even be scared of one another? If you remove fear do you get a different fight?
savair
Apr 7, 2013, 2:27:35 PM4/7/13
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Also if I might add you might see a more competitive fight than Ali's fight with Liston due to simply the way the two fighters are. For example you might ask why did Foreman knock out Frazier in two rounds,went through Norton easily, then lost to Ali. Then when Frazier and Norton fights Ali the fights were longer and more competitive.
sugarl...@gmail.com
Apr 26, 2013, 6:38:34 PM4/26/13
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On Sunday, April 7, 2013 2:27:35 PM UTC-4, savair wrote:
> Also if I might add you might see a more competitive fight than Ali's fight with Liston due to simply the way the two fighters are. For example you might ask why did Foreman knock out Frazier in two rounds,went through Norton easily, then lost to Ali. Then when Frazier and Norton fights Ali the fights were longer and more competitive.
Sonny over Joe L on the street and in the ring, every, every time. Always say "every time." Always say that.
> Also if I might add you might see a more competitive fight than Ali's fight with Liston due to simply the way the two fighters are. For example you might ask why did Foreman knock out Frazier in two rounds,went through Norton easily, then lost to Ali. Then when Frazier and Norton fights Ali the fights were longer and more competitive.
DCI
Apr 26, 2013, 8:33:27 PM4/26/13
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DCI
SkippyPB
Apr 27, 2013, 11:52:27 AM4/27/13
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On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 17:33:27 -0700 (PDT), DCI <50b...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Liston was just a big slugger. Joe Louis was a boxer. A boxer wins
everytime.
Regards,
--
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-
“I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross
the road and not be questioned about their motives.”
-- Unknown
wrote:
everytime.
Regards,
--
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-
“I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross
the road and not be questioned about their motives.”
-- Unknown
Loki
Apr 27, 2013, 1:37:08 PM4/27/13
to
On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:52:27 -0400, SkippyPB
<swie...@Nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 17:33:27 -0700 (PDT), DCI <50b...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Friday, April 26, 2013 3:38:34 PM UTC-7, sugarl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, April 7, 2013 2:27:35 PM UTC-4, savair wrote:
>>>
>>> > Also if I might add you might see a more competitive fight than Ali's fight with Liston due to simply the way the two fighters are. For example you might ask why did Foreman knock out Frazier in two rounds,went through Norton easily, then lost to Ali. Then when Frazier and Norton fights Ali the fights were longer and more competitive.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sonny over Joe L on the street and in the ring, every, every time. Always say "every time." Always say that.
>>
>>Disagree.
>>
>>DCI
>
>Liston was just a big slugger. Joe Louis was a boxer. A boxer wins
>everytime.
Every time? Wasn't Floyd Patterson a boxer?
<swie...@Nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 17:33:27 -0700 (PDT), DCI <50b...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Friday, April 26, 2013 3:38:34 PM UTC-7, sugarl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, April 7, 2013 2:27:35 PM UTC-4, savair wrote:
>>>
>>> > Also if I might add you might see a more competitive fight than Ali's fight with Liston due to simply the way the two fighters are. For example you might ask why did Foreman knock out Frazier in two rounds,went through Norton easily, then lost to Ali. Then when Frazier and Norton fights Ali the fights were longer and more competitive.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sonny over Joe L on the street and in the ring, every, every time. Always say "every time." Always say that.
>>
>>Disagree.
>>
>>DCI
>
>Liston was just a big slugger. Joe Louis was a boxer. A boxer wins
>everytime.
sugarl...@gmail.com
Apr 27, 2013, 9:42:27 PM4/27/13
to
On Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:52:27 AM UTC-4, SkippyPB wrote:
> > >Disagree. > >DCI Liston was just a big slugger. Joe Louis was a boxer. A boxer wins everytime.>>
With all due admiration of both DCI and you, it is imperative to differ with both of you. Imperative--always say that.
> > >Disagree. > >DCI Liston was just a big slugger. Joe Louis was a boxer. A boxer wins everytime.>>
DCI
Apr 27, 2013, 11:04:38 PM4/27/13
to
DCI
sugarl...@gmail.com
Apr 27, 2013, 11:31:03 PM4/27/13
to
On Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:04:38 PM UTC-4, DCI wrote:
> On Saturday, April 27, 2013 6:42:27 PM UTC-7, sugarl...@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:52:27 AM UTC-4, SkippyPB wrote: > > > > >Disagree. > >DCI Liston was just a big slugger. Joe Louis was a boxer. A boxer wins everytime.>> > > > > > > With all due admiration of both DCI and you, it is imperative to differ with both of you. Imperative--always say that. Sugar, I must agree with you. After Louis dispatched Liston and when Liston woke up, it would be imperative to consider a rematch . . . for easy money. DCI
You see, and many thought DCI was not creative. Yes, DCI is creative but is he right? No, he is not right in this particular, situational situation. Not right at all. Always say all. Always say thatta, thatta, thatta.
> On Saturday, April 27, 2013 6:42:27 PM UTC-7, sugarl...@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:52:27 AM UTC-4, SkippyPB wrote: > > > > >Disagree. > >DCI Liston was just a big slugger. Joe Louis was a boxer. A boxer wins everytime.>> > > > > > > With all due admiration of both DCI and you, it is imperative to differ with both of you. Imperative--always say that. Sugar, I must agree with you. After Louis dispatched Liston and when Liston woke up, it would be imperative to consider a rematch . . . for easy money. DCI
sugarl...@gmail.com
Apr 27, 2013, 11:39:41 PM4/27/13
to
On Saturday, April 27, 2013 1:37:08 PM UTC-4, Loki wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:52:27 -0400, >Liston was just a big slugger. Joe Louis was a boxer. A boxer wins everytime.
<Every time? Wasn't Floyd Patterson a boxer?>
Of course Sonny thought Floyd was not even a pugilist: "He should be locked up for impersonating a fighter." Sonny did not say this about "Gassius Cassius."
> On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:52:27 -0400, >Liston was just a big slugger. Joe Louis was a boxer. A boxer wins everytime.
<Every time? Wasn't Floyd Patterson a boxer?>
SkippyPB
Apr 28, 2013, 12:21:10 PM4/28/13
to
Regards,
--
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-
hand before elections and your Confidence after.
-- Unknown
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Loki
Apr 28, 2013, 1:31:47 PM4/28/13
to
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:21:10 -0400, SkippyPB
Alexis Arguello was a boxer, Aaron Pryor was a slugger.
Ezzard Charles was a boxer, Rocky Marciano was a slugger.
Point is, a boxer doesn't win "every time".
<swie...@Nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 10:37:08 -0700, Loki <cubby...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:52:27 -0400, SkippyPB
>><swie...@Nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 17:33:27 -0700 (PDT), DCI <50b...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Friday, April 26, 2013 3:38:34 PM UTC-7, sugarl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, April 7, 2013 2:27:35 PM UTC-4, savair wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Also if I might add you might see a more competitive fight than Ali's fight with Liston due to simply the way the two fighters are. For example you might ask why did Foreman knock out Frazier in two rounds,went through Norton easily, then lost to Ali. Then when Frazier and Norton fights Ali the fights were longer and more competitive.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sonny over Joe L on the street and in the ring, every, every time. Always say "every time." Always say that.
>>>>
>>>>Disagree.
>>>>
>>>>DCI
>>>
>>>Liston was just a big slugger. Joe Louis was a boxer. A boxer wins
>>>everytime.
>>
>>Every time? Wasn't Floyd Patterson a boxer?
>
>Yes, but he was smallish. Nowhere near Joe Louis' abilities.
Ken Norton was a boxer, George Foreman was a slugger.
>On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 10:37:08 -0700, Loki <cubby...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:52:27 -0400, SkippyPB
>><swie...@Nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 17:33:27 -0700 (PDT), DCI <50b...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Friday, April 26, 2013 3:38:34 PM UTC-7, sugarl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, April 7, 2013 2:27:35 PM UTC-4, savair wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Also if I might add you might see a more competitive fight than Ali's fight with Liston due to simply the way the two fighters are. For example you might ask why did Foreman knock out Frazier in two rounds,went through Norton easily, then lost to Ali. Then when Frazier and Norton fights Ali the fights were longer and more competitive.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sonny over Joe L on the street and in the ring, every, every time. Always say "every time." Always say that.
>>>>
>>>>Disagree.
>>>>
>>>>DCI
>>>
>>>Liston was just a big slugger. Joe Louis was a boxer. A boxer wins
>>>everytime.
>>
>>Every time? Wasn't Floyd Patterson a boxer?
>
>Yes, but he was smallish. Nowhere near Joe Louis' abilities.
Alexis Arguello was a boxer, Aaron Pryor was a slugger.
Ezzard Charles was a boxer, Rocky Marciano was a slugger.
Point is, a boxer doesn't win "every time".
DCI
Apr 28, 2013, 2:26:29 PM4/28/13
to
DCI
sugarl...@gmail.com
Apr 28, 2013, 11:46:57 PM4/28/13
to
On Sunday, April 28, 2013 2:26:29 PM UTC-4, DCI wrote:
> On Saturday, April 27, 2013 8:31:03 PM UTC-7, sugarl...@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:04:38 PM UTC-4, DCI wrote: > > > On Saturday, April 27, 2013 6:42:27 PM UTC-7, sugarl...@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:52:27 AM UTC-4, SkippyPB wrote: > > > > >Disagree. > >DCI Liston was just a big slugger. Joe Louis was a boxer. A boxer wins everytime.>> > > > > > > With all due admiration of both DCI and you, it is imperative to differ with both of you. Imperative--always say that. Sugar, I must agree with you. After Louis dispatched Liston and when Liston woke up, it would be imperative to consider a rematch . . . for easy money. DCI > > > > You see, and many thought DCI was not creative. Yes, DCI is creative but is he right? No, he is not right in this particular, situational situation. Not right at all. Always say all. Always say thatta, thatta, thatta. Sugar, good stuff, but why? And you're the one who thinks Liston would top Louis? There is no comparison in the skills of Liston and Louis, none. Their records show this very clearly. DCI
All conditions would have to be equal; Sonny's career was never allowed to fully flourish because of those who owned and controlled him. Sonny never had piece of mind, either, being hounded by the law wherever he went. This took a merciless emotional toll. Joe Louis had no such afflictions, as it were. The two fighters in their prime with the same trainer, manager etc. would reveal a Sonny too tough for any heavyweight ever, including Joe L.
> On Saturday, April 27, 2013 8:31:03 PM UTC-7, sugarl...@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:04:38 PM UTC-4, DCI wrote: > > > On Saturday, April 27, 2013 6:42:27 PM UTC-7, sugarl...@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:52:27 AM UTC-4, SkippyPB wrote: > > > > >Disagree. > >DCI Liston was just a big slugger. Joe Louis was a boxer. A boxer wins everytime.>> > > > > > > With all due admiration of both DCI and you, it is imperative to differ with both of you. Imperative--always say that. Sugar, I must agree with you. After Louis dispatched Liston and when Liston woke up, it would be imperative to consider a rematch . . . for easy money. DCI > > > > You see, and many thought DCI was not creative. Yes, DCI is creative but is he right? No, he is not right in this particular, situational situation. Not right at all. Always say all. Always say thatta, thatta, thatta. Sugar, good stuff, but why? And you're the one who thinks Liston would top Louis? There is no comparison in the skills of Liston and Louis, none. Their records show this very clearly. DCI
DCI
Apr 29, 2013, 12:25:15 AM4/29/13
to
Stick to your position. While wrong, at least your dedicated to an intractable opinion.
By the way, Joe Louis overcame quite a bit of social restrictions, etc., and did well.
DCI
sugarl...@gmail.com
Apr 30, 2013, 11:28:46 PM4/30/13
to
On Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:46:57 PM UTC-4, sugarl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, April 28, 2013 2:26:29 PM UTC-4, DCI wrote: > On Saturday, April 27, 2013 8:31:03 PM UTC-7, sugarl...@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:04:38 PM UTC-4, DCI wrote: > > > On Saturday, April 27, 2013 6:42:27 PM UTC-7, sugarl...@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:52:27 AM UTC-4, SkippyPB wrote: > > > > >Disagree. > >DCI Liston was just a big slugger. Joe Louis was a boxer. A boxer wins everytime.>> > > > > > > With all due admiration of both DCI and you, it is imperative to differ with both of you. Imperative--always say that. Sugar, I must agree with you. After Louis dispatched Liston and when Liston woke up, it would be imperative to consider a rematch . . . for easy money. DCI > > > > You see, and many thought DCI was not creative. Yes, DCI is creative but is he right? No, he is not right in this particular, situational situation. Not right at all. Always say all. Always say thatta, thatta, thatta. Sugar, good stuff, but why? And you're the one who thinks Liston would top Louis? There is no comparison in the skills of Liston and Louis, none. Their records show this very clearly. DCI All conditions would have to be equal; Sonny's career was never allowed to fully flourish because of those who owned and controlled him. Sonny never had piece of mind, either, being hounded by the law wherever he went. This took a merciless emotional toll. Joe Louis had no such afflictions, as it were. The two fighters in their prime with the same trainer, manager etc. would reveal a Sonny too tough for any heavyweight ever, including Joe L.
Peace of mind.
> On Sunday, April 28, 2013 2:26:29 PM UTC-4, DCI wrote: > On Saturday, April 27, 2013 8:31:03 PM UTC-7, sugarl...@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:04:38 PM UTC-4, DCI wrote: > > > On Saturday, April 27, 2013 6:42:27 PM UTC-7, sugarl...@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, April 27, 2013 11:52:27 AM UTC-4, SkippyPB wrote: > > > > >Disagree. > >DCI Liston was just a big slugger. Joe Louis was a boxer. A boxer wins everytime.>> > > > > > > With all due admiration of both DCI and you, it is imperative to differ with both of you. Imperative--always say that. Sugar, I must agree with you. After Louis dispatched Liston and when Liston woke up, it would be imperative to consider a rematch . . . for easy money. DCI > > > > You see, and many thought DCI was not creative. Yes, DCI is creative but is he right? No, he is not right in this particular, situational situation. Not right at all. Always say all. Always say thatta, thatta, thatta. Sugar, good stuff, but why? And you're the one who thinks Liston would top Louis? There is no comparison in the skills of Liston and Louis, none. Their records show this very clearly. DCI All conditions would have to be equal; Sonny's career was never allowed to fully flourish because of those who owned and controlled him. Sonny never had piece of mind, either, being hounded by the law wherever he went. This took a merciless emotional toll. Joe Louis had no such afflictions, as it were. The two fighters in their prime with the same trainer, manager etc. would reveal a Sonny too tough for any heavyweight ever, including Joe L.
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