Lewis makes the Hall
Ruddell
http://www.tsn.ca/boxing/story/?id=281892
--
Cheers!
Dennis
Remove 'Elle-Kabong' to reply
SkippyPB
<ruddell'Elle-Kabong'@canada.com> wrote:
>Not exactly a surprise as it was bound to happen...
>
>http://www.tsn.ca/boxing/story/?id=281892
Well deserved.
Regards,
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-
"I must confess, I was born at a very early age."
-- Groucho Marx
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remove nospam to email me.
Steve
Turban Joe Balasootoe
If Lewis is in then Mavrovic and Mercer must follow.
5016
Mercer might actually make it, but he'll have to retire first.
There appears to have been this urban legend developed over the last
few years that Mavrovic deserved to win against Lewis. At the time,
everyone thought that he lost nearly every round. He fought above
expectations by lasting the distance, but that was about it.
Turban Joe Balasootoe
We can recall the sight of Lewis, who outweighed Mav by 45
pounds, backpedaling (running) away from this guy who
looked like a stick figure in comparison. It was comical
although everyone stopped laughing after the ridiculous
decision was rendered.
And it wasn't an Ali-Mac Foster type of thing: Ali
running but jabbing. Lewis didn't have much of a jab
and loafed for 12 rounds vs Mav but the joke was on
him and anyone else who took an objective look at
what was one of the worst farces since Ali-Shavers.
Mr.Will
"5016" <huwg...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:a0b2ed78-f574-47eb...@s1g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
--------
Out of all Lewis' fights, this was one that concerned me when it was signed.
Mavrovic had zero profile in the USA, therefore was not regarded as any kind
of challenge. Having seen him fight a few times, Id seen a solid chin and a
high workrate - he slimmed down for the bout too - extra mobility was
obviously the plan.
He had one success in the fight, which was cheered to the heavens by the
Eastern Bloc contingent and the "neutral" USA fans.......but he knew at the
end of the fight he had lost nearly all the rounds, everything he tried
Lewis bettered him.
As for Mercer, he will always be one of my favourite fighters - dropped
close decisions to Lewis and Holyfield, but great entertainment from the
man.
Mr.Will
5016
> "5016" <huwgar...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
Did you see that Mercer just knocked out Tim Sylvia in an MMA bout?
That is totally bizarre. Until recently Sylvia was regarded as a
top-10 fighter, and Mercer has to be spotting him 15 years plus a bout
with hep-C.
The Arranger
>
> > On Jun 15, 8:18 am, Ruddell <ruddell'Elle-Kabo...@canada.com> wrote:
>
> > > Not exactly a surprise as it was bound to happen...
>
> > >http://www.tsn.ca/boxing/story/?id=281892
>
> > > --
> > > Cheers!
>
> > > Dennis
>
> > > Remove 'Elle-Kabong' to reply
>
> > If Lewis is in then Mavrovic and Mercer must follow.
>
> Mercer might actually make it, but he'll have to retire first.
I'd be shocked. Let's run the five best wins test on him:
TKO5 Tommy Morrison, 1991
UD10 Tim Witherspoon, 1996
KO9 Francesco Damiani, 1991
SD10 Jesse Ferguson, 1993
SD8 Ossie Ocasio, 1989
Witherspoon was two weeks shy of his 39th birthday when Mercer
decisioned him.HGe was coming off a good winning streak against
decidedly middling competition, but after the Mercer bout and a win
over Levi Billups, he would lose his next five bouts. Ocasio was in
the twilight of a mediocre career when he was defeated by Mercer as
well. You might quibble with this choice, but any substitution doesn't
really elevate Mercer's stature.
Other than the brutal Morrison knockout, his best performances were
losses. And mixed in with his wins, even during his prime, were the
disgraceful loss to Ferguson in their first bout and a draw with
Marion Wilson.
I agree with you that any suggestion that Mavrovic was robbed of a win
against Lewis is ridiculous.
The Arranger
5016
I agree that Mercer never actually beat a top-level fighter. The
Witherspoon fight was at a point where Tim was only a peripheral
factor in the division.
But a lot of people make the hall of fame, perhaps 3 a year.
Popularity counts for a lot, which is why I think that Gatti is a lock
for the Hall. And being a heavyweight counts for a lot, too.
Having said that, Mercer's achievements are not as great as any other
heavyweight in the HoF, even though he was a better fighter than
Johansen or Carnera or Willard (only 2 of these are in the hall; but I
can't remember which). I do agree with you about his historical
stature. But I think that it is possible that the general affection
that people have for Mercer may override this and I wouldn't be
shocked to see it happen even though I agree with you that he doesn't
really deserve it.
I did say "might", you know!
Welcome back.
>
> Other than the brutal Morrison knockout, his best performances were
> losses. And mixed in with his wins, even during his prime, were the
> disgraceful loss to Ferguson in their first bout and a draw with
> Marion Wilson.
>
> I agree with you that any suggestion that Mavrovic was robbed of a win
> against Lewis is ridiculous.
>
> The Arranger- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mr.Will
-------------
I did see that - we are talking the same Mercer who got sparked by Klitschko
and looked terrible (not in a Tim way either - I honestly didnt recognise
him when he was in the ring for that fight!) - he looked a bit healthier
here, but yeah - MMA fighters arent boxers and vice versa - Mercer clocked
him and that was that.
Mr.Will
Gary Nichols
"SkippyPB" <swie...@Nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8vqc35phoiio7vftv...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 06:18:45 -0600, Ruddell
> <ruddell'Elle-Kabong'@canada.com> wrote:
>
>>Not exactly a surprise as it was bound to happen...
>>
>>http://www.tsn.ca/boxing/story/?id=281892
>
>
> Well deserved.
Absolutely well deserved. After watching a one-sided asskicking this
afternoon that at times resembled a sparring session, I long for the days I
can watch a "boring" fighter like Lewis again. I told everyone years ago
that like Holmes, it would take awhile for folks to appreciate Lewis, and
what he brought into the ring. For one of the first, and maybe only time in
recorded history, I was right. Congrats to Lewis, he's finally getting his
just due.
Gary
mwhaught
>
> Absolutely well deserved. After watching a one-sided asskicking this
> afternoon that at times resembled a sparring session, I long for the days I
> can watch a "boring" fighter like Lewis again. I told everyone years ago
> that like Holmes, it would take awhile for folks to appreciate Lewis, and
> what he brought into the ring. For one of the first, and maybe only time in
> recorded history, I was right. Congrats to Lewis, he's finally getting his
> just due.
>
> Gary
Good to see you back, Gary!
Not disputing Lewis' entry into the HoF, but you do realize the
Klitschko/Chagaev was almost perfectly identical to the successful
template Steward designed for Lewis. And followed successfully most times
by Lewis.
In most Wlad title defenses, it is striking to me how similar they are to
Lewis' performances.
-mwh
________________________________________________________________________�
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
SkippyPB
wrote:
>On Jun 21 2009 1:05 AM, Gary Nichols wrote:
>>
>> Absolutely well deserved. After watching a one-sided asskicking this
>> afternoon that at times resembled a sparring session, I long for the days I
>> can watch a "boring" fighter like Lewis again. I told everyone years ago
>> that like Holmes, it would take awhile for folks to appreciate Lewis, and
>> what he brought into the ring. For one of the first, and maybe only time in
>> recorded history, I was right. Congrats to Lewis, he's finally getting his
>> just due.
>>
>> Gary
>
>Good to see you back, Gary!
>
>Not disputing Lewis' entry into the HoF, but you do realize the
>Klitschko/Chagaev was almost perfectly identical to the successful
>template Steward designed for Lewis. And followed successfully most times
>by Lewis.
>
>In most Wlad title defenses, it is striking to me how similar they are to
>Lewis' performances.
>
> -mwh
>
There are some similarities but I think Wlad is a much more dangerous
fighter than Lewis was but on the other hand Lewis' competition was
better than Wlad's.
ne...@millions.com
wrote:
>On Jun 21 2009 1:05 AM, Gary Nichols wrote:
It's the jab. Emanuel Steward believes the tool that controls the
fight is the jab. If a fighter is eating leather from a long,
straight, stiff jabe, he won't be thinking ahead what his opions will
be.
DCI
mwhaught
You have much more knowledge on the subject than I, but I see a couple of
things working off of that jab that is the same as what Lewis' playbook
was. But, yes, it all works off of a poleaxe jab.
You can easily predict Wlad's footwork off of his opponent's movement. If
an opponent gets inside, Wlad places a forearm on the opponent's neck and
leans on him. Wlad tries to steer the fighter into a blind right hand off
of the jab in a transition in the opponent's footwork. If the opponent
gets tired and simply leans back from the jab, here comes the hook.
All very basic. Watching it play out is like watching kids learn to waltz
(1,2,3, jab...1,2,3, jab...1,2,3, right...123, lean...1,2,3, jab...1,2,3,
jab...1,2,3, jab...1,2,3, right...1,2,3, jab...1,2,3, jab...1,2,3,
jab...1,2,3, hook...etc.). But Wlad is 6'6", very powerful and can do the
basics better than almost anyone else. So it works for him. Same with the
6'5" Lewis in his day.
-mwh
-----�
ne...@millions.com
wrote:
>On Jun 21 2009 1:27 PM, never wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 09:11:04 -0700, "mwhaught" <mwha...@excite.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Jun 21 2009 1:05 AM, Gary Nichols wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Absolutely well deserved. After watching a one-sided asskicking this
>> >> afternoon that at times resembled a sparring session, I long for the days
>I
>> >> can watch a "boring" fighter like Lewis again. I told everyone years ago
>> >> that like Holmes, it would take awhile for folks to appreciate Lewis, and
>> >> what he brought into the ring. For one of the first, and maybe only time
>in
>> >> recorded history, I was right. Congrats to Lewis, he's finally getting
>his
>> >> just due.
>> >>
>> >> Gary
>> >
>> >Good to see you back, Gary!
>> >
>> >Not disputing Lewis' entry into the HoF, but you do realize the
>> >Klitschko/Chagaev was almost perfectly identical to the successful
>> >template Steward designed for Lewis. And followed successfully most times
>> >by Lewis.
>> >
>> >In most Wlad title defenses, it is striking to me how similar they are to
>> >Lewis' performances.
>> >
>> > -mwh
>> >
>> >________________________________________________________________________Â
>> >RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
>> >
>>
>> It's the jab. Emanuel Steward believes the tool that controls the
>> fight is the jab. If a fighter is eating leather from a long,
>> straight, stiff jabe, he won't be thinking ahead what his opions will
>> be.
>>
>> DCI
>
>You have much more knowledge on the subject than I, but I see a couple of
>things working off of that jab that is the same as what Lewis' playbook
>was. But, yes, it all works off of a poleaxe jab.
>
>You can easily predict Wlad's footwork off of his opponent's movement. If
>an opponent gets inside, Wlad places a forearm on the opponent's neck and
>leans on him. Wlad tries to steer the fighter into a blind right hand off
>of the jab in a transition in the opponent's footwork. If the opponent
>gets tired and simply leans back from the jab, here comes the hook.
>
>All very basic. Watching it play out is like watching kids learn to waltz
>(1,2,3, jab...1,2,3, jab...1,2,3, right...123, lean...1,2,3, jab...1,2,3,
>jab...1,2,3, jab...1,2,3, right...1,2,3, jab...1,2,3, jab...1,2,3,
>jab...1,2,3, hook...etc.). But Wlad is 6'6", very powerful and can do the
>basics better than almost anyone else. So it works for him. Same with the
>6'5" Lewis in his day.
>
> -mwh
>
>-----
>RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
>
You got it!
DCI
Ruddell
(in article <lggv3593m5g1ichu4...@4ax.com>):
>>>> ________________________________________________________________________Ã
>>>> Â
>>>> RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's the jab. Emanuel Steward believes the tool that controls the
>>> fight is the jab. If a fighter is eating leather from a long,
>>> straight, stiff jabe, he won't be thinking ahead what his opions will
>>> be.
>>>
>>> DCI
>>
>> You have much more knowledge on the subject than I, but I see a couple of
>> things working off of that jab that is the same as what Lewis' playbook
>> was. But, yes, it all works off of a poleaxe jab.
>>
>> You can easily predict Wlad's footwork off of his opponent's movement. If
>> an opponent gets inside, Wlad places a forearm on the opponent's neck and
>> leans on him. Wlad tries to steer the fighter into a blind right hand off
>> of the jab in a transition in the opponent's footwork. If the opponent
>> gets tired and simply leans back from the jab, here comes the hook.
>>
>> All very basic. Watching it play out is like watching kids learn to waltz
>> (1,2,3, jab...1,2,3, jab...1,2,3, right...123, lean...1,2,3, jab...1,2,3,
>> jab...1,2,3, jab...1,2,3, right...1,2,3, jab...1,2,3, jab...1,2,3,
>> jab...1,2,3, hook...etc.). But Wlad is 6'6", very powerful and can do the
>> basics better than almost anyone else. So it works for him. Same with the
>> 6'5" Lewis in his day.
>>
>> -mwh
>>
>> -----Â
>> RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
>>
>
> You got it!
>
> DCI
Lennox Lewis did it with style...
5016
> On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 09:11:04 -0700, "mwhaught" <mwhau...@excite.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jun 21 2009 1:05 AM, Gary Nichols wrote:
>
> >> Absolutely well deserved. After watching a one-sided asskicking this
> >> afternoon that at times resembled a sparring session, I long for the days I
> >> can watch a "boring" fighter like Lewis again. I told everyone years ago
> >> that like Holmes, it would take awhile for folks to appreciate Lewis, and
> >> what he brought into the ring. For one of the first, and maybe only time in
> >> recorded history, I was right. Congrats to Lewis, he's finally getting his
> >> just due.
>
> >> Gary
>
> >Good to see you back, Gary!
>
> >Not disputing Lewis' entry into the HoF, but you do realize the
> >Klitschko/Chagaev was almost perfectly identical to the successful
> >template Steward designed for Lewis. And followed successfully most times
> >by Lewis.
>
> >In most Wlad title defenses, it is striking to me how similar they are to
> >Lewis' performances.
>
> > -mwh
>
> There are some similarities but I think Wlad is a much more dangerous
> fighter than Lewis was but on the other hand Lewis' competition was
> better than Wlad's.
"Dangerous" in what way? I don't think that there is much doubt that
Lewis hit harder than Wlad.
>
> Regards,
> ////
> (o o)
> -oOO--(_)--OOo-
>
> "I must confess, I was born at a very early age."
>
> -- Groucho Marx
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Remove nospam to email me.
>
> Steve- Hide quoted text -
Punchy Joe
punching range longer, had a better repertoire of punches, had a better
chin, better stamina and was calmer under pressure.
I'd take Lennox Lewis to demolish Wlad in 1 or 2 rounds, Lewis would not
struggle to land the way most of Klitskcos latest opponents did and as soon
as he lands the right hand on Wlads chin, its as good as over.
"Ruddell" <ruddell'Elle-Kabong'@canada.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C6653E52...@news.sasktel.net...
>>>>> ________________________________________________________________________ￜ,
>>>>> ￜ
>>> -----ￜ
SkippyPB
wrote:
You've got to be kidding! No way did Lewis hit harder than Wlad does.
He nearly knocks people out with his jab. While Lewis had a strong
jab, I don't recall him ever knocking anyone down with it.
>>
>> Regards,
>> � � � � � ////
>> � � � � �(o o)
>> -oOO--(_)--OOo-
>>
>> "I must confess, I was born at a very early age."
>>
>> -- Groucho Marx
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> Remove nospam to email me.
>>
>> Steve
Regards,
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-
"Step aside everyone! Sensitive love letters are my specialty.
'Dear Baby, Welcome to Dumpsville. Population: you.'"
-- Homer Simpson
5016
> On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:12:24 -0700 (PDT), 5016 <huwgar...@my-deja.com>
I've got no idea who has the stronger jab. There's no doubt that Lewis
had the better right, though, and I am surprised that anyone could
think otherwise. Lewis had the ability to KO good fighters early on.
WK has never shown the ability to do what Lewis did to Ruddock,
Morrison, Golota, Briggs, Grant, Botha, Rahman etc.
>
>
>
> >> Regards,
> >> ////
> >> (o o)
> >> -oOO--(_)--OOo-
>
> >> "I must confess, I was born at a very early age."
>
> >> -- Groucho Marx
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> >> Remove nospam to email me.
>
> >> Steve
>
> Regards,
>
> ////
> (o o)
> -oOO--(_)--OOo-
>
> "Step aside everyone! Sensitive love letters are my specialty.
> 'Dear Baby, Welcome to Dumpsville. Population: you.'"
>
> -- Homer Simpson
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Remove nospam to email me.
>
mwhaught
> Wlad has quicker hands and feet than Lewis. Lewis was stronger, stayed in
> punching range longer, had a better repertoire of punches, had a better
> chin, better stamina and was calmer under pressure.
> I'd take Lennox Lewis to demolish Wlad in 1 or 2 rounds, Lewis would not
> struggle to land the way most of Klitskcos latest opponents did and as soon
> as he lands the right hand on Wlads chin, its as good as over.
>
I'd give Lewis the edge over Wlad. Whomever would win, would likely win
dramatically as neither fighter's chin and defense was/is completely
reliable. It could also end up being one of their patented, boring
jab-a-thons -- as designed by Manny Steward -- that would end in a draw.
-mwh
-------�
pmfan57
Wlad's jab is more powerful, but Lewis had a somewhat more powerful
right. And he could uppercut it. He landed the most crushing
uppercut in any heavyweight title fight against Vitali and Vitali
shook it off. That's when I knew Vitali had some set of whiskers. If
Wlad had Vitali's beard, he'd be unbeatable. As it is, he may be
unbeatable among the current crop.
Bowe was always afraid to fight Lewis so I don't rank him as highly as
others. Plus, if Golota's jab could dominate Bowe, then Wlad's would
have knocked him down. All Golota had to do was not use body shots
and he wins both fights against Bowe easily.
Punchy Joe
"pmfan57" <jwra...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1213c3d3-3c62-4802...@n30g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
Worth noting however that Bowe was generally regarded to be past his best by
the time he fought Golota.
5016
>
> - Show quoted text -
I was never a big fan of Bowe, but I don't know that Golota would have
beaten him easily without body shots. Bowe may have performed worse
than usual because he was repeatedly punched in the groin by a 240-
pound polish steroid freak. I know that Golota whacking me in the nuts
every two minutes would put me off my game somewhat.
Mr.Will
---------
I think the fight showed a great insight into Riddick Bowe - by this time
being a lazy fighter had caught up around the midriff and approach to
fights, but also from the start of his career he was used to being the
bigger man, the bully etc. and it just so happened in Golota he found
someone who was an even bigger bully and just as physical - Bowe couldn't
handle it. Before Gonzalez is mentioned, everyone could tell he had no real
pedigree at a top level.
The fights where Bowe shone were against smaller fighters he could bully.
The reverse is true of Lewis, who I think found the smaller fighters more
tricky - mobility etc.
Mr.Will