Joints ...
WilleeCue
Could you provide or direct me to the results?
As I remember an overwhelming majority preferred the flat face wood to wood
joint.
Willee
http://home.stx.rr.com/n5wrx
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue
John Barton
conclusion was that no one could tell which joint was which.
John
"WilleeCue" <n5...@nospam.stx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ZEn3c.14073$u53....@fe1.texas.rr.com...
WilleeCue
The subjsct came up the other night and no one could remember the exact
result of it.
I thought no one could tell which joint was which but most prefered the
"feel" of the one that turned out to be a wood to wood joint.
A sneaky pete I think.
Help someone ...... who knows the real scoop.
"John Barton" <ne...@instroke.com> wrote in message
news:cLKdnRW_ss4...@centurytel.net...
Shawn Armstrong
potshots about spelling errors) joint ended up being a flat faced 5/16-18
pin into a brass insert - no joint ring. I think the cue was a Viking
hustler cue.
Shawn
"WilleeCue" <n5...@nospam.stx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8zp3c.15992$u53....@fe1.texas.rr.com...
Eddie
> Yeah ... that is what I am trying to find out about.
> The subjsct came up the other night and no one could remember the exact
> result of it.
> I thought no one could tell which joint was which but most prefered the
> "feel" of the one that turned out to be a wood to wood joint.
> A sneaky pete I think.
> Help someone ...... who knows the real scoop.
I thought the Huebler sneaky pete was voted tops?
That's not a wood to wood design though.
Eddie in Detroit
Shawn Armstrong
It may have been the Huebler. I knew it was a 5/16-18 thread. I goofed -
meant to read flat-faced joint instead of wood-to-wood. Sometimes I
interchange them. The cue was a 5/16-18 thread flat-faced joint.
Thanks for the correction, Eddie.
Shawn
"Eddie" <edspeer...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Twq3c.4375$Cm3...@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Jim Eales
The post is below.
Jim Eales
Search Result 2
From: John McChesney (j...@texasexpress.com)
Subject: Re: Metal joint VS wood to wood joint?
View: Complete Thread (17 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.sport.billiard
Date: 1999/06/14
Here's something interesting we tried in 1991:
At an event we had 16 cues with the butt, joint and the ferrules covered
with masking tape...then numbered. No one could "see" if the cue was a
steel, plastic or wood joint (as in a Pete), nor detect by the style of
ferrule. We had 70 players...each hit balls with the cues throughout the
weekend.
The results:
Of nearly 800 attempts over the time period, the players guessed wrong about
what type joint was in the cue more than 7 out of 10 times. A top pro
(Meucci staffer) happened to be there, having done an exhibition and the cue
he liked the most during the attempts: He thought was surely a Meucci,
plastic joint when in reality it was an older Adams with a piloted steel
joint; and additionally guessed the Meucci he shot with as a cue with a
steel joint. Again, I maintain that cues with different joint materials may
sound differently; may be balanced differently, but what is "hit" ? Doesn't
"hit" have to do with all the senses: Vibration (feel), sound, balance, etc.
What is a "soft" hit? What is a "hard" hit? (what does this mean, if not
the sound the cue makes upon impact, or are people ref. to the vibration in
the butt?) Does a hard hit vibrate more and make a different sound? A soft
hit vibrate less with a different sound? I maintain that the primary
criteria that differentiates one cue from another begins with: The tip
(soft, med or hard) The shaft diameter and density of the wood The taper (or
stiffness of the shaft) To this day, I still don't believe the joint has
much to do with the reaction of the cueball off the shaft, rather it is the
3 aforementioned that have far more bearing on how a cue plays than anything
else. Remember, what makes the predator shaft play differently is what is
located at the tip, inside the shaft, the ferrule and the laminations....not
the joint or butt. In closing, our experiment asked which cue the players
liked best: Of the 70 players, nearly 55 liked the hit of two cues with
different numbers: When the two were exposed, they both were sneaky petes,
wood to wood joints, (one a Scruggs and the other a Huebler); both about 19
oz., both about 13 1/4mm and tended to be on the stiff side of "hit". By
the way, the 55 who liked the hit of these two cues: more than half thought
they would be steel jointed.
John McChesney
Texas Express
National Nine Ball Tour
PO Box 700814
Dallas Tx 75370
Voice 214 495 tour (8687)
Fax 214 495 7616
j...@texasexpress.com
http://www.texasexpress.com
John Barton
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=mcchesney++joint+group:rec.sport.billiard&
hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=rec.sport.billiard&selm=7k3j30%24goi%241%40bgtnsc02
.worldnet.att.net&rnum=1
Reprint:
Mike Page wrote in message ...
>In article <7jp5bd$74l$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>, "John McChesney"
><j...@texasexpress.com> wrote:
>
>> It has been proven by high spped camera (Jacksonville project) that the
>> shock wave isn't close to the joint before the cue ball leaves the tip.
>
>John, I don't believe any of the Jacksonvillians proved or claimed this.
>I think there are a handful of transmissions through and reflections at
>the joint while the tip is on the ball.
>
>--
>mike page
>fargo
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
John McChesney
Indeed, we did a test of joints about 15 years ago. Lori John Jones and Jim
Rempe were in Dallas for an exhibition and we had about 50 cues with butcher
paper and masking tape covering the butts, so as to conceal the inlayes,
joints and make of cue. We then had people test the cues, etc. and hardly
anyone could tell whether they were playing with a wood to wood, piloted
steel, flat faced steel, mycarta or ivory joint. In fact, Jim Rempe swore
he was playing with a Meucci .. but we removed the paper to find it was a
piloted steel joint/Scruggs.
Other than the sound a cue makes when it hits the cueball .. I think cue
"hits" are more determined by 1) tip 2) shaft taper and wood density as the
first criteria .. and the joint primarially is just a wat to connect 2
sections together .. I prefer a wood to wood joint with a radial pin ..
however a 3/8 x 10 would suffice just as well, I think.
The conclusion of the test(s) were that the vast majority had no idea what
they were playing with and were really surprised when told .. and by the way
.. both Lori John and Jim were fooled by similar piloted steel joints as
they both thought they were Meucci ( Implex .. fancy Bob Meucci word for
plastic ). This went on for 2 full days and hundreds of individuals
participated .. certainly opened lots of people's eyes.
Most people ended up liking wood to wood style cues ... 12.8 - 13.2mm shafts
. about 6" taper ( stiff ) .. phenolic joint bands .. old yellow micarta,
aiges, some sort of hard phenolic ferrules and hard tips.
I.E., ( not in any order )
McDermotts, Vikings, Scruggs, Hueblers, Motteys, Southwest, Benson, Libras
and a fee Petes built locally.
John McChesney
Texas Express
--
John McChesney - Texas Express
"WilleeCue" <n5...@nospam.stx.rr.com> wrote in message
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WilleeCue
"Jim Eales" <jea...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:WPr3c.529847$na.1269107@attbi_s04...
WilleeCue
"John McChesney" <johnmc...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:yCs3c.27661$bV....@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
Fred Agnir
"John McChesney" wrote:
> Meucci ( Implex .. fancy Bob Meucci word for
> plastic )
Let's not give Bob Meucci the credit for formulating Implex, please. Implex
is a brand name for a certain high-impact grade of Acrylic. At the time of
its introduction, it must have been pretty exciting for the plastic
engineering world.
Carry on.
Fred
Patrick Johnson
> [some insider stuff about plastics]
Hey, Fred... I've always wondered why I can't find acrylic drinking
glasses/cups that won't crack at the least change of temperature.
Surely our chemists are capable of that by now...? Am I just buying too
cheap?
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Fred Agnir
Maybe buying too cheap. ;-)
The "higher end" tumblers I think would be made of polycarbonate
(Lexan). It's very difficult to break, but easy to mark and scratch.
Acrylic (Plexiglas) is tougher to scratch, but it's very brittle. So,
there's a give and take. A lot of markets will use them pseudo
interchangeably, weighing the risks of the respective negatives.
Fred
Nat
> > glasses/cups that won't crack at the least change of temperature.
> > Surely our chemists are capable of that by now...? Am I just buying too
> > cheap?
50 or so years ago I worked as a compression molder in a place that made
everything from Melmac dishes to mechanical structional pieces. I recalled
making things from Phenolic resin that were virtually indestructible.
QUESTION for the engineers: What are the compressive stresses in a 3/4" dia
joint during the average break shot....or even a Strickland break? I'm
betting it's negligible.
Best,
Nat
Dan White
news:5447edcf.0403...@posting.google.com...
>
> The "higher end" tumblers I think would be made of polycarbonate
> (Lexan). It's very difficult to break, but easy to mark and scratch.
> Acrylic (Plexiglas) is tougher to scratch, but it's very brittle. So,
> there's a give and take. A lot of markets will use them pseudo
> interchangeably, weighing the risks of the respective negatives.
>
> Fred
Plexi harder to scratch than Lexan? I use a lot of plexi sheet and you can
scratch it if you look at it funny.
dwhite
Bob Jewett
> QUESTION for the engineers: What are the compressive stresses
> in a 3/4" dia joint during the average break shot....or even a
> Strickland break? I'm betting it's negligible.
The peak force at the joint for a break shot that gives a 25MPH
cue ball is about 2000 newtons or 450 pounds-force. The peak
force is roughly proportional to the stick speed, so a 3.3MPH cue
ball came from a joint that had a peak force of about 45
pounds-force.
--
Bob Jewett
http://www.sfbilliards.com/
Snoozy
I've always wondered why I can't find acrylic drinking
> glasses/cups that won't crack at the least change of temperature.
> Surely our chemists are capable of that by now...? Am I just buying too
> cheap?
http://www.microwavecookingforone.com/Glassware/AcrylicDrinkware.html
This site claims break resistant acrylic glasses. At least they have
a wide variety of choices.
Snoozy