cueball question
COMPGUN38
Included with the table was a set of Aramith Crown Standard balls with the
standard cueball with no marking whatsoever.
When I go to my local pool room to play the cueball has a red dot on it. I now
find out there are red dots, red circles, blue circles and red triangles.......
whats the difference (I'm assuming weight?) Is there any benefit in switching?
It does seem to be easier to see the spin on the cueball when it has a mark on
it .
Thanks for your input.
Marty
Paul J. Mon
This has been debated here many times and there are those who will ofer
differing opinions. Here is My opinion
Red circle, blue circle and red triangle are all quality made cue balls
that each have legions of fans. The differences between them are very
slight in regards to weight and size. Probably the biggest difference
is in the color or whiteness of each. I prefer red circle cue balls
even though my Brunswick Centenials came with the blue circle. I'm of
the opinion that the blue circle plays like it is lighter even though
the evidence show them to be equal in weight to the red circle. Have
fun with the new table........Paul
Ken Bour
dot" issue. I have occasion to play with both at our pool hall. In my
experience, the "red triangles" generate considerably more draw and seem to
carom wider than the "blue dot" series cueballs. I would swear that they
play lighter. I'll admit to being misguided, but I would like it to be
based on TRUE WEIGHT/SIZE vs. legend/myth.
--
Ken Bour
Sterling, VA
http://www.erols.com/kbour
Jetep <je...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000224191630...@ng-cs1.aol.com...
> > bought a table for the home.
> >>
> >> Included with the table was a set of Aramith Crown Standard balls with
the
> >> standard cueball with no marking whatsoever.
> >>
> >> When I go to my local pool room to play the cueball has a red dot on
it. I
> >now
> >> find out there are red dots, red circles, blue circles and red
> >triangles.......
> >> whats the difference (I'm assuming weight?) Is there any benefit in
> >switching?
> >> It does seem to be easier to see the spin on the cueball when it has a
mark
> >on
> >> it .
> >>
> >> Thanks for your input.
> >>
> >> Marty
>
> Hey Marty,
>
> I've spoken to people at length who insist the red dot cueballs are better
and
> hold the english better throughout the shot. These are people who are
sure of
> themselves and play better than me. They have more experience than is
possible
> for you or me to ever have. Some have said the blue dots are too heavy
and
> won't take draw as well as the "reds". They plead with the room owners to
get
> the red dots and the room owners shake their heads.
> Then one day I drove into a parking lot and noticed about fifteen fifty
five
> gallon drums filled with pool balls. They were all out there sitting in
the
> weather getting all dulled up.
> I introduced myself to the owner of the company that produced these balls
and
> asked him this very question. He, it turns out makes the Centenial balls
for
> Brunswick. (wouldn't let a set fall off the back of the truck, to his
credit).
> Feeling finally a little closer to the answer to this question, I held my
> breath.
> The answer is.. there is no difference. They are the same balls. Some
have
> red triangles, some have blue dots. There was a thread a while back of
someone
> who did some semi scientific study of the differences in weights of balls
that
> was interesting.
> Even armed with this information I have no doubt some will still argue
there
> are differences too subtle for me perceive.
>
> It's a great game, stay with it.
>
> -Pete
Anne Mayes
> When I go to my local pool room to play the cueball has a red dot on it. I now
> find out there are red dots, red circles, blue circles and red triangles.......
> whats the difference (I'm assuming weight?) Is there any benefit in switching?
> It does seem to be easier to see the spin on the cueball when it has a mark on
> it .
Ahh - something I have absolutely no knowledge of. However, in my experience it
seems that the blue circle and the rd circle appear to be made of different
material. At least the color of the balls leads me to believe this. The BC seems to
be fairly white while the RC seems to be cream colored. Does anyone else notice
this. I have always thought that the two balls had a (for lack of a better word)
resilience. Or perhaps maybe they transfer energy differently. At any rate, I
perceive the two to act differently upon contact with object balls.
Maybe one of the physics people here can answer this. Is it possible that they
could be the same diameter and weight, but be made of different materials and
therefore interact differently with object balls because of each materials
differing energy absorption properties?
Annie O
Ken Bour
--
Ken Bour
Sterling, VA
http://www.erols.com/kbour
Anne Mayes <ama...@idt.net> wrote in message
news:38B5FDB9...@idt.net...
Jetep
>>
>> Included with the table was a set of Aramith Crown Standard balls with the
>> standard cueball with no marking whatsoever.
>>
>now
>> find out there are red dots, red circles, blue circles and red
>triangles.......
>> whats the difference (I'm assuming weight?) Is there any benefit in
>switching?
>> It does seem to be easier to see the spin on the cueball when it has a mark
>on
>> it .
>>
mja...@nospamcc.hut.fi
: I'm new to the game and I just bought a table for the home.
: When I go to my local pool room to play the cueball has a red dot on it. I now
: find out there are red dots, red circles, blue circles and red triangles.......
: whats the difference (I'm assuming weight?) Is there any benefit in switching?
Don't switch balls from a different set to another, especially the CB.
It only makes things worse and you'll have troubles judging the force
you use if the CB is heavier/lighter than the rest of the balls
Regards,
Mikko Jantti
Espoo, Finland
http://www.hut.fi/u/mjantti/
George C. McBane
>Maybe one of the physics people here can answer this. Is it possible that they
>could be the same diameter and weight, but be made of different materials and
>therefore interact differently with object balls because of each materials
>differing energy absorption properties?
Sure, it *could* be true. Two important properties other than size and mass
are:
Compressibility (Young's modulus for mechanical engineers,
"stiffness" or even "hardness" for laypeople). Think about two
round Nerf balls, or two Styrofoam balls. It would be easy
to make them have the same density, but one has a large
compressibility and the other does not. The compressibility
has at least two important effects: it controls how much surface
area of contact there is between the two balls on impact, and it
controls how much of the collision energy goes into internal excitation
(heating the balls up rather than making them move fast on the table.)
I suspect the first of the two effects is more important.
Surface roughness or stickiness, which has been discussed a lot
because it has obvious effects on throw and spin transfer. (Pool on
bar tables at the beach is a different game!)
It may also be true that balls are not genuinely uniform; the surface
of the ball might not have the same composition as the interior.
(The candy apple model of pool balls.)
In that case, the properties both of the surface and of the interior
would be important, and if the different kinds of cue balls
were made with the same bulk material but
different surface-finishing treatments, they could have
different properties.
-George <-- taking no position on whether any of these differences actually occur
>
>Annie O
>
MIKE JANIS
Paul J. Mon <226...@knotes.kodak.com> wrote in message
news:38B548...@knotes.kodak.com...
> Red circle, blue circle and red triangle are all quality made cue balls
> that each have legions of fans. The differences between them are very
> slight in regards to weight and size. Probably the biggest difference
> is in the color or whiteness of each. I prefer red circle cue balls
> even though my Brunswick Centenials came with the blue circle. I'm of
> the opinion that the blue circle plays like it is lighter even though
> the evidence show them to be equal in weight to the red circle. Have
> fun with the new table........Paul
I thought most red circle cue balls were a bit smaller than the blue circle
ones, thus throwing off the contact point.
MJ
Anne Mayes
> COMPGUN38 <comp...@aol.com> wrote:
> : I'm new to the game and I just bought a table for the home.
>
> : When I go to my local pool room to play the cueball has a red dot on it. I now
> : find out there are red dots, red circles, blue circles and red triangles.......
> : whats the difference (I'm assuming weight?) Is there any benefit in switching?
>
> Don't switch balls from a different set to another, especially the CB.
> It only makes things worse and you'll have troubles judging the force
> you use if the CB is heavier/lighter than the rest of the balls
>
When I played on the WPBA pro tour we played with either Brunswick Centenials or with
Super Aramith Pro ball sets. Whenever we used the Centenials, we used the blue
circle ball that came with the set. When we played with Super Aramith Pro balls, we
used a red circle cue ball. I never knew why we did this.
Annie O
tom simpson
::I've spoken to people at length who insist the red dot cueballs are better and
::hold the english better throughout the shot. These are people who are sure of
::themselves and play better than me. They have more experience than is possible
::for you or me to ever have. Some have said the blue dots are too heavy and
::won't take draw as well as the "reds". They plead with the room owners to get
::the red dots and the room owners shake their heads.
::Then one day I drove into a parking lot and noticed about fifteen fifty five
::gallon drums filled with pool balls. They were all out there sitting in the
::weather getting all dulled up.
::I introduced myself to the owner of the company that produced these balls and
::asked him this very question. He, it turns out makes the Centenial balls for
::Brunswick. (wouldn't let a set fall off the back of the truck, to his credit).
:: Feeling finally a little closer to the answer to this question, I held my
::breath.
::The answer is.. there is no difference. They are the same balls. Some have
::red triangles, some have blue dots.
You must have spoken with my buddy Bob Simpson (no relation)
of Hyatt Ball. I called him today to look into this matter.
He made the Centennials until 1981, when Saluc "stole the
contract by taking a big loss on it." He assures me that yes
indeed, when Hyatt made them, the Blue Circles and the Red
Circles were identical. The only difference was the Blue
Circles were held to a tighter tolerance (+/- .001).
I suspect that Saluc is not maintaining this similarity.
Their web site says they are using a different formula for
the Amariths vs. the Aramith Super Pro's, so it's entirely
possible that the material is different.
Here's a tidbit that may clear up some ancient mysteries for
some of you: Bob told me that he would occasionally get
orders for "draw cueballs". He would make batches of
cueballs up to 10% lighter than normal (with the same
diameter) and fill these orders. Ten percent! He said they
were usually bought by room owners. We speculated that the
room owners had the idea that players would feel they played
well and got lots of ball action on Room X's "great
equipment." The draw cueballs were not marked in any way.
I have an inquiry in to Saluc, and I'll report what I learn
(if anything) in this thread. It's pretty silly that we
don't know this basic fact.
tom simpson
tom simpson
<tsim...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
It took two months and three tries, but today I got a response
from Saluc. Here it is:
Dear Mr. Simpson,
Please find below our comments on your April 25 e-mail.
1. In our top line of American Pool balls 2" 1/4 we are
manufacturing two sets :
a) "SUPER ARAMITH PRO" set (blue box) with a red triangle cue
ball
b) "BRUNSWICK CENTENNIAL" set (Brunswick box) with a blue
circle cue ball
For your information, the above 2 products are exactly the
same : the only difference is their design.
2. The "red circle" cue balls are produced with a different
kind of cast phenolic resin. This is the only difference with
the above 2 cue balls.
Best regards,
SALUC S.A. - Belgium
At least now we know SOMETHING! I replied with more questions
about why the different resin, is the resilience the same, and
so on. I'll report further, if I get anywhere.
It could still be true that the Blue Circles and the Red
Circles are different weights, since they are different
materials, but they didn't specifically address that question.
I'm sure the language barrier is part of the problem.
tom simpson
Grady102
have maintained that the cue balls weigh
the same,to the chagrin of pros like me.
BUT,if you take two cue balls that are ex-
actly the same weight and circumference,
hold them evenly over a uniform surface
and drop them,if cueball a. bounces some-
what higher than cueball b.,it (cueball a.)
will draw easier and follow harder than the
other ball.
So I'm going to suggest that with the diff-
erent consistencies and resiliencies of mo-
dern day plastics,that you'd be hard pressed to find cueballs that play exactly
the same.What I've always done is watch
how the cueballs play and then I know how
to play with whatever reactions I'm getting
from a particular ball(s).
I am not nearly as deranged about cue-
balls as some of my counterparts,namely
Dave Bollman,in Norfolk,who has been re-
ligiously weighing balls for years.
Grady
Kirk Douglass
All 3 red's weighed 155 grams/ball
All 3 blue's weighed 170 grams/ball
As I've insisted for a long time the blue weighs more than the red.
Kirk
"tom simpson" <tsim...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:2gncgscpguojup4d9...@4ax.com...
Jennifer
--
Jennifer
http://www.jessnjenn.net
--
"Kirk Douglass" <kdou...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:m7FN4.1553$%G6.1...@typhoon.columbus.rr.com...
Ninebal310
impossible in the game of pool. Both players have to use the same balls, cue
ball and the same table. Should they be forced to use the same cue too? No 2
cues balls can be exactly the same. No Table is perfectly level and no cloth is
perfect. I think that ALL players at the "pro" level is up against many factors
such as: who is adapting to the variables quicker, and who is in the "ZONE". I
am sure NO PRO wins them all. And they have their good days and their bad days
just like the rest of us "average" players. So, does it really matter?
Hustlin' Hank
lfigueroa
Lou Figueroa
Jennifer <jenn...@NOSPAMjessnjenn.net> wrote in message
news:8e79fd$9j5$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net...
Jetep
>am sure NO PRO wins them all. And they have their good days and their bad
>days
>just like the rest of us "average" players. So, does it really matter?
>Hustlin' Hank
>
A guy I used to work for said he could tell whether you were a Gene Autry fan
or you liked Roy Rogers by what kind of ice cream you like. If you liked
chocolate ice cream, you were a Gene Autry fan. If you liked vanilla ice cream
you liked Roy Rogers. Or, was it the other way around?
If I ever run into him I ask again..
Gordon Matheson
I can't follow your train of thought jumping from pros and average players
but I think you have it backward. Where I came from, Gene Autry fans wore
lace panties, couldn't shoot pool, were slow draws and ate vanilla ice cream
from Dixie Cups with wooden spoons. Roy Rogers fans were faster draws,
excelled in sports (AND games) and licked chocolate cones and didn't care if
they dripped.
G. liked Lash Larue and Whip Wilson and Chocolate shakes or chocolate with
whipped cream in a big bowl and kicked those other sissy kids' cowgirl
asses.
Jetep
>> >Hustlin' Hank
>> >
>>
>> A guy I used to work for said he could tell whether you were a Gene Autry
>fan
>> or you liked Roy Rogers by what kind of ice cream you like. If you liked
>> chocolate ice cream, you were a Gene Autry fan. If you liked vanilla ice
>cream
>> you liked Roy Rogers. Or, was it the other way around?
>> If I ever run into him I ask again..
>
>I can't follow your train of thought jumping from pros and average players
Was referring to the "does it really matter?"
Is this too much of a stretch?
>but I think you have it backward. Where I came from, Gene Autry fans wore
>lace panties, couldn't shoot pool, were slow draws and ate vanilla ice cream
>from Dixie Cups with wooden spoons. Roy Rogers fans were faster draws,
>excelled in sports (AND games) and licked chocolate cones and didn't care if
>they dripped.
>
>G. liked Lash Larue and Whip Wilson and Chocolate shakes or chocolate with
>whipped cream in a big bowl and kicked those other sissy kids' cowgirl
>asses.
>
WTG Gordon!
-Pete