Alternative to Predator?
Ken Bour
cuemaker in Erie, PA named Bob Dzuricky (DZ Cues). Somewhere along the
line, I suggested that he try to make a "low squirt" shaft using the
principles that were published in RSB in 12/97 by Thomas Wayne ("Rosabelle,
I Believe" was the thread name). He did build such a shaft and received
positive feedback from local players. I finally ordered one and it came
this Friday!
The particulars:
Length: 29"
Shaft Dia.: 12.75mm
Joint: 3/8 x 10 Radial (made to fit my Downey butt)
Collar: 5/16 Black Linen
Ferrule: Aegis
Tip: Triangle
I'll let Bob talk about what he did to the innards, but the gist of it is
that he hollowed out 6" (or so) in the upper end and glued in a graphite
insert.
First, on the overall appearance and quality: (a) beautifully crafted
piece, (b) fit almost perfect with the butt in terms of concentricity, (c)
3/8 x 10 radial joint groove is just right (not too loose, not too tight),
(d) very smooth finish and a pleasure to slide through my gloved fingers,
(e) straight as a ruler, and (f) pro taper is excellent. I might have
liked just a little thicker joint collar, but it looks fine when assembled.
On to the performance characteristics: this is a WINNER! I tried all the
squirt tests that I customarily perform and this shaft kept pace with the
Predator on every single one -- no exceptions. The hit is very satisfying,
the weight is comfortable, balance right on ... in short it's all there! I
compared the same shots to house Dufferins, my Downey shafts, Shons, and my
Dishaws. All of these latter shafts squirted considerably more than the DZ
and P. Rank order:
1) Predator 3/4" Ferrule
2) Predator 1" Ferrule
2) DZ Shaft
-- GAP --
4) Dishaw shaft
5) Schon Shaft
-- GAP --
6) Downey Shaft
7) Dufferin 1-Piece Cue
Finally, I played with the cue/shaft combination as I would normally. I was
making shots with extreme sidespin using my customary level of adjustment.
It felt as though I was playing with the P shaft (except that it is
considerably smoother). I went back and forth between this Downey/DZ
combination and my other P-shafted cues with ease.
I'm very impressed with this shaft. In my judgment, it is interchangeable
with the Predator in terms of squirt.
--
Ken Bour
Sterling, VA
http://www.erols.com/kbour
Arnot Q. Wadsworth, III
conclusions of my own:
1. You might learn to play pool if you got your head out of the squirt.
2. You will never learn to jump with a legal jump/break cue. Maybe it is
because your head is in the squirt.
3. You are quick to evaluate every cue you get your hands on and report
your findings to the group. Of course that is easy nobody can argue with
YOUR opinion.
It is so obvious that you want to design a cue/shaft/combination so I
challenge you to do just that - make one - I will even let you use my
equipment and furnish you the blanks. Put up or shut up.
--
Arnot Q Custom Cues
3717 Jeanne Ave, Lake Worth, FL 33461
Check Out My In Stock Cues
http://www.arnotq.com ar...@arnotq.com
561 439-0441
Michael Page
Wadsworth, III" <ar...@arnotq.com> wrote:
> Ken I have been reading your postings for years and I have come to a few
> conclusions of my own:
>
> 1. You might learn to play pool if you got your head out of the squirt.
>
> 2. You will never learn to jump with a legal jump/break cue. Maybe it is
> because your head is in the squirt.
>
> 3. You are quick to evaluate every cue you get your hands on and report
> your findings to the group. Of course that is easy nobody can argue with
> YOUR opinion.
>
> It is so obvious that you want to design a cue/shaft/combination so I
> challenge you to do just that - make one - I will even let you use my
> equipment and furnish you the blanks. Put up or shut up.
>
What this post is *really* about is bad feelings surrounding Ken's
criticism of the workmanship on Arnot's cue. If I recall correctly, Ken's
criticisms started out as private email to Thomas Wayne, and TW posted
Ken's email to the group. Then Ken summarized his conclusions about this
one cue himself recently.
Regardless, It's an odd time to tell Ken to "put up or shut up" when Ken
has just reported working with a cuemaker based on discussions in this
group to make a new shaft design that relates directly to by far the most
talked about performance characteristic of a shaft in this forum...and Ken
tested that new shaft and compared it to several others.....
It's hard to think of a clearer example of putting up..
Ken Bour
haven't corresponded with him since I returned a cue, several months ago,
which was the worst example of craftsmanship that I have ever witnessed.
I'm tempted to dredge up the records and re-post all the things that were
wrong with that cue and the transaction. If this continues to get ugly,
maybe I'll do just that...
Incidentally, Arnot, I do play with a legal jump/break cue -- at least
according to BCA regulations. It's called the Happy Hopper and it's made by
Brad Boltz. It is a fantastic product and actually allows me to jump over
balls -- something I could not do with the J/B cue you sent me. In addition
to my lone opinion, there are many others in RSB who have purchased Happy
Hoppers, on my recommendation. To my knowledge, not one has been
disappointed with its performance characteristics.
Secondly, reporting on our successes and failures with products is one of
the most useful aspects of RSB, although it is certainly not flawless.
What makes this work is that people are frank and honest about their
experiences -- the good, the bad, and the ugly. They are all OPINIONS,
including yours. Are you suggesting that everyone should keep to themselves
when they purchase a product including cues, tips, chalk, tables, shafts,
etc.? Is that what you have been doing in this forum, keeping to yourself?
Seems to me I've read some pretty offensive opinions coming from your
keyboard lately (not counting this one)! How on earth could you muster up
the gall to imply that I should keep quiet?
Thirdly, I am not a cuemaker nor have I ever represented myself in that way.
I am a mere player and, yes, I do evaluate products from a player's
perspective, as do many others in this forum. I do find it regrettable
that few cuemakers have attempted to make a low squirt shaft, following
Predator's lead. Finally, Bob Dzuricky in PA agreed to make one with
excellent results -- YES, IN MY OPINION. I don't have any business
relationship with Bob or DZ Cues. I paid full price for the shaft including
shipping. If it did not squirt less than others that I own, that's what I
would have reported and he would have been in full agreement. He made no
claims about this product before sending it to me. It was an experiment and
a successful one at that. In the marketplace, it's usually productive to
have choices and competition. I believe that shafts will get better and
better if more cuemakers continue R&D in attempts to make the lowest squirt
product that they can. Of course, they first must understand what "squirt"
is. From all that I could tell in our conversations, you haven't learned
that yet. It's no wonder that you would advocate ignoring squirt. The cue
you sent me had the worst squirting shaft that I have ever tried --
including one-piece Dufferins! Notice that I did not include your product
in my list but, since you decided to jump on my case, I'll modify it to
include yours. Happy now?
Finally, people argue with my opinions all the time in this forum and you,
sir, are welcome to do likewise; however, I don't read your post as offering
a constructive counterpoint, but a senseless flame intended only to provoke
a fight...and, if that was your intention, well, ... it worked!
--
Ken Bour
Sterling, VA
http://www.erols.com/kbour
Arnot Q. Wadsworth, III <ar...@arnotq.com> wrote in message
news:ggYS3.674$f5.4...@server1.news.adelphia.net...
> Ken I have been reading your postings for years and I have come to a few
> conclusions of my own:
>
> 1. You might learn to play pool if you got your head out of the squirt.
>
> 2. You will never learn to jump with a legal jump/break cue. Maybe it is
> because your head is in the squirt.
>
> 3. You are quick to evaluate every cue you get your hands on and report
> your findings to the group. Of course that is easy nobody can argue with
> YOUR opinion.
>
> It is so obvious that you want to design a cue/shaft/combination so I
> challenge you to do just that - make one - I will even let you use my
> equipment and furnish you the blanks. Put up or shut up.
>
Ed Mercier
kidding, right?
Ed Mercier
President
http://playpool.com
Ken Bour
email messages made it to the newsgroup in a different thread ("Visiting a
Cuemaker"). It wasn't too flattering of Arnot. Oooops. Must have hit the
wrong key by mistake. When I saw it, I then realized why Arnot jumped in on
this thread to fire a salvo back in my direction. Frankly, I deserved it.
I really did not want to pick a fight with Arnot and, while I read the other
thread, I knew better than to get involved. Arnot and I had a transaction
awhile back concerning a cue that didn't go too well and it's over --
settled amicably. I really have no interest in harming him or his business
although, when I saw his post here, I couldn't resist. That was before I
realized my own error in the other thread.
Pandora, if you're still out there, get back in that goddamned box!
--
Ken Bour
Sterling, VA
http://www.erols.com/kbour
Ed Mercier <emer...@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:381cf74d$0$29...@news.execpc.com...
joe naka
wrote:
Who gives a F*ck about this name calling baby stuff.
I wanna hear more about the P-Imposter shaft that was created.
And whats so bad about "squirt" anyway? Isn't there some kind
of advantage to playing with squirt?
And what did the custum shaft cost you?
Arnot Q. Wadsworth, III
STILL NOT BE ABLE TO POCKET A BALL. But you will have to find something
else to evaluate.
Don-cha-know jump/break cues are NOT intended for playing. They are
made to Break and Jump. NO ENGLISH. Who would be so stupid as to do a
squirt test on a break cue with a very, very thick shaft.
Arnot Q. Wadsworth, III
you are a back stabber.
Mike Page
[...]
> Don-cha-know jump/break cues are NOT intended for playing. They are
> made to Break and Jump. NO ENGLISH. Who would be so stupid as to do a
> squirt test on a break cue with a very, very thick shaft.
> --
Arnot, do you recommend people chalk the tip on their break cue? If so, why?
Oh, right, and you asked a question... Uh.. Me. I'm that stupid.
--
mike page
fargo
Ron205
>ar...@arnotq.com wrote:
>
> [...]
>> Don-cha-know jump/break cues are NOT intended for playing. They are
>> made to Break and Jump. NO ENGLISH. Who would be so stupid as to do a
>> squirt test on a break cue with a very, very thick shaft.
>> --
>
>Arnot, do you recommend people chalk the tip on their break cue? If so,
>why?
>
>Oh, right, and you asked a question... Uh.. Me. I'm that stupid.
I brought this up a couple of days ago. There IS a good reason for squirt
testing a break cue, and you don't necessarily want it to come out very good.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Tony Johnson
TJ
--
Tony Johnson
Ken Bour
lowest "deflection" (you meant squirt) shaft on the market! That's the main
reason I was attracted to your products in the first place. You even told
me that I could use the J/B as a playing cue and that it would perform
great. Now you are doing an about face!
The reason I tested your J/B for squirt is because of your exaggerated
claim, not because I necessarily expected a break cue to exhibit low squirt
properties. I would have kept the cue, even with the high squirt, had the
quality and craftsmanship been acceptable. The squirt was not the major
reason I returned the cue and if you go back and read my letter, you'll know
that to be the case.
Incidentally, I can pocket a ball now and then...despite my fixation on
squirt. Ttruth is, I am even more fixated on swerve, but there's nothing
that can be done with equipment to reduce that problem (yet)!
Notwisthanding your disapproval, I will continue evaluating products,
reporting on same, experimenting with techniques, reporting those results,
and generally contributing my thoughts in this forum where I have an
interest. I enjoy it and I receive supportive feedback -- enough of the
time to make it worthwhile. If it annoys you, ignore me and my posts or
continue to comment and/or flame as you see fit -- it's a public forum --
sure livens things up and flushes the lurkers out!
Ken Bour
Arnot Q. Wadsworth, III <ar...@arnotq.com> wrote in message
news:381D91CE...@arnotq.com...
> Ken I don't care if all the squirt in the world disappears - YOU WILL
> STILL NOT BE ABLE TO POCKET A BALL. But you will have to find something
> else to evaluate.
>
> Don-cha-know jump/break cues are NOT intended for playing. They are
> made to Break and Jump. NO ENGLISH. Who would be so stupid as to do a
> squirt test on a break cue with a very, very thick shaft.
Ken Bour
thread topic regarding his experimental shaft, he shall remain in the
background. I guess he doesn't want to be the object of personal assaults
for having designed and built a new product. I can hardly blame him
although I was hoping that we could learn something from his methods that
would shed light on what makes a shaft product lower squirt relative to
others.
If anyone is interested in additional information regarding this
experimental shaft from DZ Cues, please write to me privately and I will be
pleased to pass on Bob's phone number and email address.
Incidentally, a friend and pool player came by the house last night. He
shoots with a Predator also. He played with the DZ shaft for awhile and
remarked to me that he believes it squirts LESS than his Predator. Another
opinion, but additional corroboration on my own tests.
Someone asked about the price: $125 + $10 Shipping.
Ken Bour
kb...@erols.com
Ken Bour <kb...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:7vgkbn$5ed$1...@autumn.news.rcn.net...
Bob Johnson
conversations that took place in here between Arnot and T.W., I don't think
I would put anything in e-mail to either of them about the other. It
wouldn't be right for T.W. to post the private e-mail, but it wouldn't
surprise me either. I would hope Arnot wouldn't do this, but there are
definitely some hard feelings there. If I were Ken, and this is in fact how
it got started, I would be pissed as hell, but then, what can you do?
--
Bob Johnson, Denver, Co.
Home of the back to back World Champion Broncos!
bo...@cris.com
Michael Page <pa...@plains.nodak.edu> wrote in message
news:page-ya02408000R...@news.nodak.edu...
> In article <ggYS3.674$f5.4...@server1.news.adelphia.net>, "Arnot Q.
> Wadsworth, III" <ar...@arnotq.com> wrote:
>
> > Ken I have been reading your postings for years and I have come to a few
> > conclusions of my own:
> >
> > 1. You might learn to play pool if you got your head out of the squirt.
> >
> > 2. You will never learn to jump with a legal jump/break cue. Maybe it
is
> > because your head is in the squirt.
> >
> > 3. You are quick to evaluate every cue you get your hands on and report
> > your findings to the group. Of course that is easy nobody can argue
with
> > YOUR opinion.
> >
> > It is so obvious that you want to design a cue/shaft/combination so I
> > challenge you to do just that - make one - I will even let you use my
> > equipment and furnish you the blanks. Put up or shut up.
> >
>
Arnot Q. Wadsworth, III
Bryan Mordt
Bryan Mordt
Bryan's Pro Shop
Phoenix, Az.
(602) 371-3992
Jossq
I currently play with a Joss/ Predator combination which I am very happy with,
However if you would be so kind to send me the address and number of this guy
who built this new shaft, much appreciation. Also, have you heard any good info
on the 360 degree shaft I ve seen advertised in P&B Mag?