> What is the advantage/disadvantage to open the 8-ball, 9-ball from > the left or right side and not from the middle?
> What sort of spin is best for it?
> Benny
You will scratch much more often breaking from the center.
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I was taught to use outside english to catch the short rail near the corner pocket, then stop it on the long rail about 1 foot away from my pocket. I guess most of you would consider that the wimpy break off of the 4th ball.
Snookerly Yours, Mark Kulaga ######################################## Vice President The United States Snooker Association http://www.snookerusa.com/ussaframes.html Naperville, IL ########################################
Very little. The top players hit the cue ball nearly in the middle, with just enough draw/follow to make the cue ball stop dead without hitting any rails. Spin detracts from energy into the rack.
>Don't use ANY spin. If the cueball runs around the table, if it sits and spins, or makes any other motion, you have put energy into it that doesn't get transferred to the rack. The only motion that the cueball should make is to "hop" back to the center of the table and stop. This is to give you the best chance of getting a shot if you make a ball.
In article <334E7402.1...@neosoft.com>, jimb...@popmail.neosoft.com wrote: >Bernhard Mohr wrote: >> What sort of spin is best for it?
>Don't use ANY spin. If the cueball runs around the table, if it sits >and spins, or makes any other motion, you have put energy into it that >doesn't get transferred to the rack. The only motion that the cueball >should make is to "hop" back to the center of the table and stop. This >is to give you the best chance of getting a shot if you make a ball.
I agree with both parts of this answer (this is for 8-ball and 9-ball breaks, not one-pocket breaks, right? :-). If you want to look at some physics equations that try to quantify the tradeoff between cue ball spin and energy, look at Problem 3.10 and Fig. 3.3 in "Amateur Physics for the Amateur Pool Player". One thing that you will find there (that seems puzzling, to me at least) is that this tradeoff becomes worse for heavier sticks than for light sticks; it's not a big effect for stick weights in the usual range, but it is there. Also, Fig. 3.3 shows the velocity relation; what is perhaps more important as far as the break shot is concerned is the translational kinetic energy, which of course goes as the square of the velocity. In other words, a 10% loss of velocity due to an off-center hit corresponds to a 19% loss of energy (.9*.9=.81).
Ron Shepard wrote: > In article <334E7402.1...@neosoft.com>, jimb...@popmail.neosoft.com wrote: > >Bernhard Mohr wrote: > >> What sort of spin is best for it? > >Don't use ANY spin. If the cueball runs around the table, if it sits > >and spins, or makes any other motion, you have put energy into it that > >doesn't get transferred to the rack. The only motion that the cueball > >should make is to "hop" back to the center of the table and stop. This > >is to give you the best chance of getting a shot if you make a ball. > I agree with both parts of this answer (this is for 8-ball and 9-ball > breaks, not one-pocket breaks, right? :-). > $.02 -Ron Shepard
The physics bit went over my head (sad but true), but for years, I worked so hard at putting power into my snap that I wasn't controlling the cueball at all. When I broke from the left-side rail, I scratched in the left corner; when I broke from slightly left of center, I scratched into the right-side pocket. Breaking from anywhere on the right ensured a scratch for me. I finally slowed down and concentrated on hitting the cueball dead-center, and started getting the ball to stop in the center of the table after hitting the rack. THEN I started to put more power into the break. Now I have a reasonably consistent nine-ball snap which takes less effort and produces better results. Whew!
In article <334CFC34.7...@iac.net>, Sherm Adamson <sherm...@iac.net> writes: >> I have a beginners question:
>> What is the advantage/disadvantage to open the 8-ball, 9-ball from >> the left or right side and not from the middle?
>> What sort of spin is best for it?
>> Benny
>You will scratch much more often breaking from the center.
Scratch more often? Never heard that one. If you take care of your cueball breaking from anywhere you wont scratch, unless you get that unfortunate kiss or something.
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> > In article <334E7402.1...@neosoft.com>, jimb...@popmail.neosoft.com wrote:
> > >Bernhard Mohr wrote: > > >> What sort of spin is best for it?
> > >Don't use ANY spin. If the cueball runs around the table, if it sits > > >and spins, or makes any other motion, you have put energy into it that > > >doesn't get transferred to the rack. The only motion that the cueball > > >should make is to "hop" back to the center of the table and stop. This > > >is to give you the best chance of getting a shot if you make a ball.
> > I agree with both parts of this answer (this is for 8-ball and 9-ball > > breaks, not one-pocket breaks, right? :-). > > $.02 -Ron Shepard
Just to put my two penneth in, I disagree with the first answer. Admittedly the cue ball has energy that has not been transfered but that does not necessarily mean that the cue ball did not transfer more energy than would have been possible if the cue ball been controlled sufficiently to get it to perform complete energy transfer.
By the way, you see this in discus as well---the active reverse is a waste because you are not in contact with the ground when you let go of the discus (basically you jump up at the end of the through), but that said getting into that position you put more energy into the discus than you do if you through fixed feet (ie with feet planted on the ground in the final stages of the through....of course it is a trade off....you foul more with an active reverse than you do with fixed feet and it isn't as consistent).
Admittedly this is probably being a bit pedantic but I'm not convinced which is best.
> > > In article <334E7402.1...@neosoft.com>, jimb...@popmail.neosoft.com wrote:
> > > >Bernhard Mohr wrote: > > > >> What sort of spin is best for it?
> > > >Don't use ANY spin. If the cueball runs around the table, if it sits > > > >and spins, or makes any other motion, you have put energy into it that > > > >doesn't get transferred to the rack. The only motion that the cueball > > > >should make is to "hop" back to the center of the table and stop. This > > > >is to give you the best chance of getting a shot if you make a ball.
> > > I agree with both parts of this answer (this is for 8-ball and 9-ball > > > breaks, not one-pocket breaks, right? :-). > > > $.02 -Ron Shepard
> Just to put my two penneth in, I disagree with the first answer. > Admittedly the cue ball has energy that has not been transfered > but that does not necessarily mean that the cue ball did not transfer > more energy than would have been possible if the cue ball been > controlled > sufficiently to get it to perform complete energy transfer.
> By the way, you see this in discus as well---the active reverse is a > waste because > you are not in contact with the ground when you let go of the discus > (basically you jump up at the end of the through), but that said > getting into that position you put more energy into the discus than you > do if > you through fixed feet (ie with feet planted on the ground in the final > stages > of the through....of course it is a trade off....you foul more with an > active > reverse than you do with fixed feet and it isn't as consistent).
> Admittedly this is probably being a bit pedantic but I'm not convinced > which is > best.
> Just felt I should say that,
> ANdy McLeod
And you are correct in saying that. It seems this group often dives headlong into details and precision, perhaps without considering the big picture of the problem. After all, what is really better - transfering all of the energy of a 15 MPH cueball, or transfering 90% of the energy of a 19 MPH cueball? Answer - for spreading the pack, it's #2 by a tremendous margin. But the REAL answer of course, still depends on ball control as well as who gets to shoot next :). The correct middle ground, as Bridget notes, must be sought on an individual basis.
> > > > In article <334E7402.1...@neosoft.com>, jimb...@popmail.neosoft.com wrote:
> > > > >Bernhard Mohr wrote: > > > > >> What sort of spin is best for it?
Everyone else has donated spam to this, so I might as well also. I use three break shots in 8 ball, one in 9 ball.
The three in 8 ball ( I'm probably gonna catch hell for this,,,,)
1. Just left or right of the head spot, on the string, centerball, hard as hell, into the apex ball squarely. 2. Three inches from the left or right long rail, on the string, lots of draw, hard as hell into the "second" ball as full as I can hit it. ( I make more 8 balls w/this one.) 3. One diamond left or right away from the head spot, on the string, shooting outside of the apex ball by maybe 1/2 to 1/4 hit, with draw and english. ( the object of this being to smack the rack first, the rebound the cue ball of the rail and back into the rack.)
My nine ball break,,,
Cue ball one diamond from the spot (left or right), on the string, as hard as I can possibly hit, squarely into the one ball.
In 9 ball sometimes, just to see the look on my opponents face, I'll play a very soft break almost like a one pocket or 14.1 break. No significance here,,,,
In article <335A2ECD.5...@compuserve.com>, 102466....@compuserve.com wrote:
[...]
> In 9 ball sometimes, just to see the look on my opponents face, I'll > play a very soft break almost like a one pocket or 14.1 break. No > significance here,,,,
OK, I guess, but you do have to get 4 balls to the cushion (or pocket a ball). Otherwise, you foul, the opponent gets ball in hand on a table with lots of clusters, and you are in trouble.
Bernhard Mohr wrote: > I have a beginners question:
> What is the advantage/disadvantage to open the 8-ball, 9-ball from > the left or right side and not from the middle?
> What sort of spin is best for it?
> Benny
Well, maybe i were the last... The principal diference between the open near and far the rail is that near of it, with a powerfull attack, you can displace the balls more to the rail. However near the middle of the table, with the same attack, you displace the balls back, towards the short rail. Anyway, this is an stile, some players use one way others, does the opposite. When you talk about 8 and 9 ball, the thing turn different cos in the 9-ball game, the principal objetive of the opening is to run the nine one, so, if you attack the mass of balls from the side, you have more probabilities of move the center ball (9) away, and as much as the 9 ball moves, better to run in a pocket...
Excuse my lamentable and pitiful english, i hope it is good enought to comunicate my ideas...
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>I have a beginners question: <BR> <BR>What is the advantage/disadvantage to open the 8-ball, 9-ball from <BR>the left or right side and not from the middle? <BR> <BR>What sort of spin is best for it? <BR> <BR>Benny </BLOCKQUOTE> Well, maybe i were the last... <BR> The principal diference between the open near and far the rail is that near of it, with a powerfull attack, you can displace the balls more to the rail. However near the middle of the table, with the same attack, you displace the balls back, towards the short rail. Anyway, this is an stile, some players use one way others, does the opposite. <BR> When you talk about 8 and 9 ball, the thing turn different cos in the 9-ball game, the principal objetive of the opening is to run the nine one, so, if you attack the mass of balls from the side, you have more probabilities of move the center ball (9) away, and as much as the 9 ball moves, better to run in a pocket... <BR> <BR> Excuse my lamentable and pitiful english, i hope it is good enought to comunicate my ideas... <BR> <BR> O O ·============== SPEEDER<U>¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨ </U>()
