Willee vs. Shawn - the cuemaking challenge
Shawn Armstrong
I forgot to read the fine print, Willee (stupid me for catching this so
late). You've already taken what I want off of the table. I asked that you
stop calling yourself a cuemaker if I won the challenge. You have removed
"cuemaker" at your own discretion, so there's nothing in this for me, now.
You called me a "wannabe cuemaker", somehow suggesting I couldn't build a
cue, or that the cues I build are somehow inferior, without ever seeing my
work. I've never brought your workmanship into question. I have never said
your cues were anything - I've never played with one, so how would I know.
Anyways, here's the new stakes. Loser leaves town (bye bye to the NG for at
least 2 years). And, if I win, JimboCT gets the cue you made for the
challenge. If you win, I'm off the newsgroup, and you can have the cue I
made as your "trophy". If it's a tie, the tie goes to me, because in your
words, I'm the wannabe cuemaker. You've been making cues for 4 years, so
your work should be superior to that of a "wannabe".
What'll it be, Willee?
Shawn<-------------just a guy that thinks Willee only accepted because he
had nothing to lose.
WilleeCue
Dont he sound just like me, Bimbo?
Anyhow, the cue we make must have vennered half spliced points in the forarm
and the butt and at least 16 pieces of ivory inlay. Four of the ivory inlays
must have sharp points, not rounded ones. All work must be done by you, at
your shop, on your equipment. Same for me.
OK ...... if you can retract then I get to retract just so I have something
to lose.
William Lee <.... cuemaker .. until proven otherwise.
WilleeCue
"Shawn Armstrong" <shawn.a...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:zr%1c.4259$n37.2...@read2.cgocable.net...
Shawn Armstrong
Canada has a ban on ivory, so that won't happen. Also, I mentioned that I
don't do inlays. I do spliced points and ringwork. Inlays add no
structural value to the cue, in my opinion.
Tell you what, Willee, it's open game. Build the cue you want to build.
I'll build the cue I want. All I want to see is spliced points, not inlaid
points. Spliced points are the true test of how good you are in terms of
controlling runout on the cue. If you inlay your points, they'll always be
even, no matter how much your lathe runs out of dead centre. If you aren't
dead centred on your forearm to handle connection with spliced points, they
turn out uneven. So, inlay to your heart's content. There will have to be
at least 4 spliced points in the forearm. Otherwise, inlay 1K diamonds and
24K gold for all I care. The cue isn't going to be judged on how "pretty"
it is. It's going to be judged in terms of execution, and workmanship.
That being said, I'm not submitting a sneaky pete. I think I'll do an 8 or
10 point forearm, some windows in the butt section to match the long points
in the forearm, and either a hardwood or a leather wrap. Would this cue
prove that I'm not a "wannabe"?
I'm not backing down. Willee. It's just that the total of all of my
cuemaking equipment totals about $1200 US. The rest is ingenuity,
integrity, and a little perfectionism. Go to work with your $10,000 of
total equipment.
So, I've removed your restriction on the inlays. If you want to inlay the
cue, then I want to see a piloted stainless steel joint, just to even things
up a little.
So, here's the rules. Build a cue with at least 4 spliced points. Inlaying
is just proof that you own the machines to do it. There's no functionality
to an inlay. Spliced points to prove you work to tight tolerances. I don't
care about how many veneers you put it - knock yourself out. Wrap is of
your choice. Weight is 19.5 ounces, +/- 0.25 ounces, no weight bolts in the
end of the cue. If you want to do inlays, you have to install a piloted,
5/16-14 or 5/16-18 stainless steel joint (not the thin walled ring that goes
over phenolic - a real stainless steel joint). If no inlays, do any joint
you want. The provisal is, whatever joint you choose to do (flat faced
phenolic or stainless), I have to do as well. If you choose Radial, I'll
install a Radial as well. I do all of the major joints - 3/8-10 (and don't
pull the bullshit of saying you want to install a 3/8-11 instead of a
3/8-10 - they're the same type of joint) wood to wood, 5/16-14 and 5/16-18,
Radial or Uni-loc.
Rules are simple - build the cue of your choosing. I build the cue of my
choosing. If you put inlays in the cue, I want to see a stainless steel
joint, and I'll put one on as well. If no inlays (again, inlays offer no
proof of how well your cue is built, they're just ornamentation), then you
choose the joint pin and type (flat faced or piloted).
Simple rules, Willee. I dare you to accept. I double-dog dare you.
Shawn
"WilleeCue" <n5...@nospam.stx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:%O%1c.48162$OH4....@fe2.texas.rr.com...
Michael Webb
SCHOOL YARD BULL SHIT
Michael Webb
Webb Custom Cues
http://www.webbcues.com
WilleeCue
> Willee,
>
> Canada has a ban on ivory, so that won't happen.
Too bad.
>Also, I mentioned that I
> don't do inlays.
Too bad
> I do spliced points and ringwork. Inlays add no
> structural value to the cue, in my opinion.
Your opinion don't count.
You are not a cuemaker ... remember ... I am.
Only the opinion of the judge counts.
> Tell you what, Willee, it's open game. Build the cue you want to build.
> I'll build the cue I want. All I want to see is spliced points, not
inlaid
> points. Spliced points are the true test of how good you are in terms of
> controlling runout on the cue.
Sounds like you want to measure lathe accuracy.
I have done several half spliced and veneered point cues.
I learned how to do it from Chris Hightower's book.
Not real difficult once you know how its done and your equipment is up to
the task.
I would not call it difficult .. just another one of the many opportunities
to mess up the cue.
>If you inlay your points, they'll always be
> even, no matter how much your lathe runs out of dead centre. If you
aren't
> dead centred on your forearm to handle connection with spliced points,
they
> turn out uneven.
So that is the real secret??
Only the even points (what you are referring to are really called half
splice points .. its in the book) is a measurement of cuemaking skill. Boy
Howdy ... have I been directing my energy in the wrong direction.
Glad you put me straight on what it takes to achieve that.
>So, inlay to your heart's content. There will have to be
> at least 4 spliced points in the forearm. Otherwise, inlay 1K diamonds
and
> 24K gold for all I care. The cue isn't going to be judged on how "pretty"
> it is. It's going to be judged in terms of execution, and workmanship.
> That being said, I'm not submitting a sneaky pete. I think I'll do an 8
or
> 10 point forearm, some windows in the butt section to match the long
points
> in the forearm, and either a hardwood or a leather wrap. Would this cue
> prove that I'm not a "wannabe"?
>
> I'm not backing down. Willee.
Who said you were backing down, Shawn.
I thought I was the crawfish.
Cant you see that I called you a "wantabee" not as a serious fact but as an
insult designed to get under your skin?
What do I care what skills or ambitions you have?
Why do you feel the need to prove anything to me?
> It's just that the total of all of my
> cuemaking equipment totals about $1200 US. The rest is ingenuity,
> integrity, and a little perfectionism. Go to work with your $10,000 of
> total equipment.
Gee .. I paid mor than that for my cheap Chineese metal lathe.
My bad .... I have more expensive equipment ... I sure feel real bad about
that.
Perhaps you should have considered that possabiltiy BEFORE you put your
mouth in gear.
Not that it should be a real factor to such a talented guy like you.
>snip>
> Simple rules, Willee. I dare you to accept. I double-dog dare you.
>
> Shawn
Being only a single dog type of guy ... let me suggest this .....
Lets let someone that is neutral spec the cue then judge it.
Someone that knows a little about cuemaking and what is involved.
Deno Andrews has such experience and is willing to spec out a cue for us and
then judge it.
Deno and I have had arguments in the past and no one would consider us as
friends but I believe him to be an honest and fair man.
What do you say, Shawn, lets drop this posturing and let Deno tell us what
cue to make and then he will judge who did a better job of it.
William Lee
WilleeCue
WilleeCue
Only a few here take it seriously.
William Lee
"Michael Webb" <webb...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:FP02c.28623$UU.1186@lakeread01...
Donald Tees
Donald
ratchet
Jimbo is doing , Send your cues on an RSB tour and let us Judge for ourselves ??
send a questionnaire that will be mailed directly back to you with individual
results of the judging .. Mail the cue to the first one on the list ,then he/she
is responsible for mailing it to the next , with the last one being responsible
for mailing it back to the maker ....
Ratchet
WilleeCue
Done that and lost a cue already.
No thanks.
William Lee
"ratchet" <rat...@littlegreenapple.com> wrote in message
news:4048AB22...@littlegreenapple.com...
Bob Johnson
--
Bob Johnson, Denver, Co.
bo...@cris.com
"Shawn Armstrong" <shawn.a...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:zr%1c.4259$n37.2...@read2.cgocable.net...
Smorgass Bored
blah,blah,blah
Willie said:
blah,blah,blah
(*<~ Man oh man, talk about not having a dog in this fight. I think
they should fight a duel.
or at least go Kill Themselves.... imo
Doug
~>*(((>< Big fish eat Little fish ><)))*<~
Chas
> How about if you guys take this off board for awhile.
It's right on topic.
Pool is a game for obsessive-compulsives. It's 'Life' on a nine-foot table.
You worry about the room, the table; about the lights for the table, the
balls on the table, the rack for the balls on the table, the sticks to hit
the balls with; the cases to carry the sticks to hit the balls on the table
under the lights,......
I love it.
The fights over 'rounded points' and sharp ones; the functionality of inlay,
scrimshaw, rare materials and sophisticated assembly techniques. CNC v.
'handwork' v. 'freehand' v. 'jigged',......
You'd have to go a long way to find aficionados that appreciate fine work,
special materials, state-of-art combined with respect for tradition-
let'em fight; it's good for cuemaking in general, and fun to watch.
Chas
Pat Hall
PatH
Pat Hall
PatH
Bob Johnson
come back here before the first ear gets bitten off.
--
Bob Johnson, Denver, Co.
bo...@cris.com
"Chas" <chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:AtydndAe5LM...@comcast.com...
Shawn Armstrong
cuemaking wannabe. I am not a wannabe - I have actually made cues. With
Willee's vast amount of equipment, he must make cues better than the
Szamboti's, Balabushka's and Tascarella's of the world. He's got more
expensive equipment than most cuemakers, except Schon, Joss, Falcon, and the
rest of the production houses. He's read the books and watched the videos.
I haven't, yet somehow I still acquired the knowledge to make a cue. In
fact, I came up with some things all on my own, without the use of anything
except grey matter.
Willee can go pound salt for all I care. I offered what I thought was a
fair challenge in terms of spelling out what cue we were going to make (any
cue). The only equalizing factor I asked for was if he decided to do inlays
(because inlays impress some people - I've got no clue what they add to a
cue in terms of making it structurally sound), is that he install a
stainless steel joint.
It's fantastic that you've read the books, Willee. I'm actually shocked -
you don't read well on the newsgroup. I'm guessing if I had sent you a
book, you may have picked up on a couple of concepts.
I know that my cues hit well - otherwise 2 former Canadian snooker and
9-ball champs wouldn't have asked me to design their new jump/break cues for
them. I also know they look nice, and are made with clean and precise
execution (that wasn't in the book).
Bye, Willee (turtle). I'll leave you alone now.
Anyone wanting to do a tour with one of my cues through the newsgroup
contact me anytime. Anything with the name "Willee" in it doesn't get read
anymore. Besides, this newsgroup is his life. He'll never leave. He's
like cancer. You don't beat it - it kills you in the end.
Shawn
WilleeCue
William Lee < ... cuemaker
WilleeCue
"Shawn Armstrong" <shawn.a...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:mj42c.4298$n37.2...@read2.cgocable.net...
recoveryjones
Hi William and Shawn, I have been reading these posts and though I
find them somewhat amusing, I'll take no sides on your personal issues
with one another. Heaven knows I've got enough battles with my x-wife,
teenagers, employers and gov't etc. and pool is a great relaxing
release for me from the stresses of this world.
Having said all of this, I'm fascinated with custom cues and would
like to look at a few cues that each of you has constructed.Do you
guys have websites showcasing your work.I'd really like to see some
cues that you guys have made.Could you post some links to your
workmanship? I checked out Michael Webbs in his link above and he has
some nice stuff, so I'd like to see yours as well. Thanks RJ
WilleeCue
RJ Mike Webb is an excellent cuemaker that does outstanding work and has a
fine reputation.
I do not have a real web page but do have some photos of cues that I have
made in the past.
http://home.stx.rr.com/n5wrx
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue
Wont be able to make anything until this coming summer.
This is a part time thing with me and I need to go off on a contract job to
help support my cuemaking.
I am just a little fish in a big cuemaking ocean.
William Lee
WilleeCue
"recoveryjones" <recove...@recoveryjonescartoons.com> wrote in message
news:edcc549c.04030...@posting.google.com...
Jimbo Ct
>least 2 years).
2 years it a bit extreme, I don't like to see anyone go away for that long,
specially not my toy. How bout 3 months or just some tag line with no JCB
bullshit, pay up like a man.
Shawn: >I win, JimboCT gets the cue you made for the
>challenge.
Whay am I being punished???
Jim <---What did I do wrong now?
Shawn Armstrong
one might make up for it.
It could also be used to practise "stick fighting".
Shawn
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20040305171536...@mb-m20.aol.com...
Steve Ellis
"I can do anything better than you!"
"No you can't!"
"Yes I CAN!"
"No you CAN'T!"
"YES I CAN!"
Thems fightin' words back where I come from partner!
>
>Donald
Adam Jacoby
One thing (and I'm not trying to be a bastard here), but on the picture of
your lacewood cue, where it says "the thin red line that seperates winners
from loosers" change that to losers :)
Anyway, your shop looks pretty nice... Wish I had a hobby like that one...
Adam
"WilleeCue" <n5...@nospam.stx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:tI62c.48257$OH4....@fe2.texas.rr.com...
WilleeCue
William Lee
WilleeCue
"Steve Ellis" <rsp...@RemoveThiss-c-ellis.com> wrote in message
news:1mvh40pfrjbr8rhn4...@4ax.com...
WilleeCue
few videos.
Why ... in two weeks you too can be a cuemaker.
Don't laugh .. I'm serious. <G>
I haven't changed that spelling of the word losers cause it is just too
funny.
I get a lot of comments about it.
William Lee
WilleeCue
"Adam Jacoby" <jac...@REMOVEcharterTHIS.net> wrote in message
news:104i01s...@corp.supernews.com...
Shawn Armstrong
cue of mine I'm working on and sending out. If there are any other people
that want to do an unbiased eval of my cues, let me know and you're on the
list.
If demand is high enough, I'll send two cues out. I'm not too worried about
losing the cues. I trust the people from the newsgroup. If anyone wants to
buy the cues, let me know.
Shawn Armstrong
"Shawn Armstrong" <shawn.a...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:S672c.4313$n37.2...@read2.cgocable.net...
Shawn Armstrong
It's not a hobby, it's a CARREER.
Shawn
"Adam Jacoby" <jac...@REMOVEcharterTHIS.net> wrote in message
news:104i01s...@corp.supernews.com...
WilleeCue
Yep .. you are an identical copy of Bimbo.
In fact I am starting to think you are really him posting under an assumed
name.
William Lee < .. Cuemaker
WilleeCue
"Shawn Armstrong" <shawn.a...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:_k72c.4316$n37.2...@read2.cgocable.net...
Shawn Armstrong
Isn't " Anything you can do, I can do better" the starting line to that one?
Shawn
"Steve Ellis" <rsp...@RemoveThiss-c-ellis.com> wrote in message
news:1mvh40pfrjbr8rhn4...@4ax.com...
>
WilleeCue
Its your job here to point out the errors.
William Lee
WilleeCue
"Shawn Armstrong" <shawn.a...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:mt72c.2742$R37...@read1.cgocable.net...
Adam Jacoby
up all of your nice machines in a U-Haul or moving van of your choice, bring
it ALL over to my house, drop it off, then leave... :-)
Adam <~~~~~~~ I'll buy the beer :)
"Shawn Armstrong" <shawn.a...@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:zr%1c.4259$n37.2...@read2.cgocable.net...
> Willee,
>
> I forgot to read the fine print, Willee (stupid me for catching this so
> late). You've already taken what I want off of the table. I asked that
you
> stop calling yourself a cuemaker if I won the challenge. You have removed
> "cuemaker" at your own discretion, so there's nothing in this for me, now.
>
> You called me a "wannabe cuemaker", somehow suggesting I couldn't build a
> cue, or that the cues I build are somehow inferior, without ever seeing my
> work. I've never brought your workmanship into question. I have never
said
> your cues were anything - I've never played with one, so how would I know.
>
> Anyways, here's the new stakes. Loser leaves town (bye bye to the NG for
at
WilleeCue
If you ever get down this way (Corpus Christi, Texas) you can stay here
until all my beer is gone.
You better pack for a long stay..
William Lee
"Adam Jacoby" <jac...@REMOVEcharterTHIS.net> wrote in message
news:104i2ju...@corp.supernews.com...
Donald Tees
Shoot.
;<)
I must say that I tend to agree with you about art. If you want to be
an artist though, I think you have to explore everything. I'm sure we've
both been hearing the arguements between the "artists" and the "fine
artists" and the "only a craftsman", for years. I'll bet Chas has heard
it up to his ears and beyond. I personally think a great artist also has
to be a fine craftsman ... Picasso's line work could make the average
engraver blush.
On the other hand, I am not sure that the opposite need apply. There is
nothing wrong with simple top quality craftsmanship when someone is
buying a utilitarial tool, like a cue or a case. That craftmanship can
be attained, in many cases, by tooling and training. I'd rather have
good craft than poor art. I also tend to like my tools simple and
unadorned. I prefer my art straight up.
Donald
Donald
Shawn Armstrong
Remember, I'm Canadian, so American beer isn't much of an offer to me.
Now, if you could get a box of Molson Canadian, and a carton of DuMaurier
cigs together, I'm on the road.
Shawn
"Adam Jacoby" <jac...@REMOVEcharterTHIS.net> wrote in message
news:104i2ju...@corp.supernews.com...
Chas
> I must say that I tend to agree with you about art. If you want to be
> an artist though, I think you have to explore everything. I'm sure we've
> both been hearing the arguements between the "artists" and the "fine
> artists" and the "only a craftsman", for years. I'll bet Chas has heard
> it up to his ears and beyond. I personally think a great artist also has
> to be a fine craftsman ... Picasso's line work could make the average
> engraver blush.
Yeah; when you say 'art', I want you to be working your ass off.
I went all through art school as an 'artisan'; 'applied arts' (as opposed to
'fine arts'), 'fine craft'- it pissed me off to have them define my art by
the media, and still accept Duchamps Dadaist concept.
Now, I call it 'multi-media' art; the ouevre is called 'Macho Schlock' and I
present everything I make as a concept piece <G>
how de worm do turn.
> On the other hand, I am not sure that the opposite need apply. There is
> nothing wrong with simple top quality craftsmanship when someone is
> buying a utilitarial tool, like a cue or a case. That craftmanship can
> be attained, in many cases, by tooling and training. I'd rather have
> good craft than poor art. I also tend to like my tools simple and
> unadorned. I prefer my art straight up.
I like rococo everything- it doesn't get too Gaude` for me ;-)
Even my tools are ornamented, because I spend so much time with them, that I
like them to be pretty.
Chas
Shawn Armstrong
Forgot to mention something - my equipment doesn't come with any videos or
books, so you'll actually have to know or learn how to use the lathe
yourself.
Shawn
"Adam Jacoby" <jac...@REMOVEcharterTHIS.net> wrote in message
news:104i2ju...@corp.supernews.com...
Steve Ellis
>Steve,
>
>Isn't " Anything you can do, I can do better" the starting line to that one?
Could be, this 58 year old brain doesn't remember things the way it once did, and it never
did remember things too well. ;-)
Adam Jacoby
> Adam,
>
> Forgot to mention something - my equipment doesn't come with any videos or
> books, so you'll actually have to know or learn how to use the lathe
> yourself.
>
> Shawn
>
Well, that kinda sucks, I've never been real good with tools, although I can
completely take apart a computer and put it back together, so I might be
able to figure something out... Who knows...
I used to work for an industrial tool distributor here in St. Louis, and I
got several chances to see a high end CNC machine at work.... The stuff it
could do was pretty amazing... Of course, the ones I'm talking about take up
alot of space and run upwards of 500 grand...
Adam <~~~~~~~ all I need is 499,800 more dollars and I've got one...
Adam Jacoby
shitty with geography, so I'm not sure if that is even close
"WilleeCue" <n5...@nospam.stx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:CZ72c.48286$OH4....@fe2.texas.rr.com...
Donald Tees
computers. But it is more a gracefull older lady than a flashy young
pretty. Maybe I'm just getting old. ;<)
Donald
Sorackem
"Adam Jacoby" <jac...@REMOVEcharterTHIS.net> wrote in message
> change that to losers :)
Finally,
someone lets loose on the loss of losing.
-BS