Hal Houle
43Fan
searching for the wrong thing, but I have yet to find anything that Mr.
Houle actually wrote about his system(s).
I play 8-ball in a local bar league. I'd say my average is a 5 ball run
being able to run out maybe 1 in 7 or 8. Most of the time I actually miss
the shot rather than not get position, so anything/everything that can help
my shot making, I want to read, study, etc.
I have no idea whether I'll be able to understand it from just reading or
not, but I'd sure like to try!
Thanks!
Shawn
Joerg Klein
One of the guys posting here was nice enough to explain it to me in detail
by email and also sent some explanation diagrams. I have tried to document
the system as I understand it (it's the basic ball-ball system) and put it
with a couple of drawings in an Acrobat file. I am planning to make it
available for download on my website, but for now you can just email me and
I send it to you. I was surprised (been playing pool for over 10 years and
never new about it) but the system works damn' well for me, I haven't been
drilling shots with that much confidence before knowing about it!
Joerg
--
Hompage: http://www.glink.net.hk/~joerg
Pool Billiards, Audio and a little more
43Fan <sl...@hereintown.net> wrote in message
news:p2jJ5.692$ZX2....@iad-read.news.verio.net...
LMoss18701
>One of the guys posting here was nice enough to explain it to me in detail
>by email and also sent some explanation diagrams. I have tried to document
>the system as I understand it
>(it's the basic ball-ball system) and put it
>with a couple of drawings in an Acrobat file. I am planning to make it
>available for download on my website, but for now you ca
>just email me and
>I send it to you.
JOERGE,
you might want to check your copyright laws, as all of hals systems are
copyrighted. sounds like you have already infringed.
linda moss
Laura Friedman
"LMoss18701" <lmoss...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001024221908...@ng-bg1.aol.com...
I challenge you or anyone else to present a Hal Houle system that wasn't
first proposed by someone else.
Furthermore, I'm not sure you can copyright a "system" for aiming or
anything else.
Laura
Joerg Klein
news:AXtJ5.22199$rD3.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
I have already replied to Linda by email:
First let me say that:
1. The document is not labeled 'Joerg's aiming system', it says 'Hal's
aiming system'
2. I have simply used my understanding of the system to add some explaining
diagrams. I did this for myself and in the end thought it might be of help
to others that have asked about it. I have also emailed the file back to
John to check if he agrees on the content and to the distribution of that
file to interested players and his reply was that Hal WANTED this
information to be shared (for the basic ball-ball system)
3. Numerous posts on RSB have indicated that the system was already
explained publicly by Hal himself and others have attempted to explain it or
said they would after they're familiar with it
4. We're not talking about $$$ here, I have no intention to sell the
information or a related product (come to think of it, Hal should ask
someone to produce training balls for that system!)
However, I am no expert on copyright law and I do not want to violate
anything, not even Hal's or your personal feelings about it. I have already
received lots of requests, but I haven't sent out any yet. My suggestion is
that I email the file to Hal first and obtain his permission, that should
avoid any misunderstandings. As I mentioned, I have never had direct contact
with him so maybe that is the best way. If he says no to it I will keep the
file for myself. I will post this information to RSB when I am home and
email the same to people that have asked me for the file.
Regards,
Joerg
So as it is now, I will hold off distribution of the file until I get
confirmation from Hal that it's OK. Anyone has his email address? It's a bit
sad to wait though, there was a great number of replies form players that
are willing to check it out! And thanks Laura, I feel in a similar way. Next
thing would be someone had the copyright on the ghostball method and 99% of
pool players end up in jail ;-)
QuantumDot
Joerg Klein wrote:
>
>
> So as it is now, I will hold off distribution of the file until I get
> confirmation from Hal that it's OK. Anyone has his email address? It's a bit
> sad to wait though, there was a great number of replies form players that
> are willing to check it out! And thanks Laura, I feel in a similar way. Next
> thing would be someone had the copyright on the ghostball method and 99% of
> pool players end up in jail ;-)
>
> Joerg
It has been stated that the ball-ball system is to be shared with
others. Correct me if I'm wrong, SSCS?
Steve
Joerg Klein
under another 'Hal-Thread' in RSB. Based on that I don't see why I shouldn't
distribute some diagrams that help visualize what he's saying. Anyway, I
have just sent my document to Hal for approval to distribute it. I believe
that's the most appropriate way, maybe he can offer some comments to make it
even better before I pass it on.
It would be great if somebody from RSB who sees him or calls him
occasionally could ask him to check his email...(I don't want to call him
because I am in Hong Kong with about 12 hours time difference).
Joerg
--
Hompage: http://www.glink.net.hk/~joerg
Pool Billiards, Audio and a little more
QuantumDot <quant...@gloryroad.net> wrote in message
news:39F6E1D5...@gloryroad.net...
Fred Agnir
Joerg Klein wrote in message <8t6pc3$io$1...@unix2.glink.net.hk>...
>A verbal description by Hal himself has just been re-posted by Fred Agnir
>under another 'Hal-Thread' in RSB. Based on that I don't see why I
shouldn't
>distribute some diagrams that help visualize what he's saying.
Well, what I did was post his post verbatim. Hal has expressed many times
that he gives this information free. Also, what I posted isn't new
information and cannot be attributed specifically to Hal's systems. That is,
his ball-to-ball aiming system isn't "his." Now, if you're going to write
up some new document with visuals, would you be in danger of misrepresenting
Hal?
Fred <~~~ probably broke some copyright law or something.
gide...@my-deja.com
"Fred Agnir" <oha...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Fred <~~~ probably broke some copyright law or something.
For anyone who is really interested, here are a couple of websites
providing an overview of copyright law, with internet perspectives:
http://www.wvjolt.wvu.edu/wvjolt/current/issue1/articles/salang/salango.
htm#I
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copyright.html
http://www.eff.org/pub/CAF/law/ip-primer
Regards,
Gideon<---Took copyright law in law school, but forgot most of it by now
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
QuantumDot
Joerg Klein wrote:
> For sure you didn't break any law by reposting something that was already
> made public. I agree with you that my diagrams might be misrepresenting the
> system, but I am pretty sure they're OK, after all I don't find it that hard
> to understand. The description Hal posted is more detailed than what I
> worked with. Anyway, just to be on the safe side I have emailed my diagrams
> to Hal and hope to get his consent for distribution soon. I think it will
> turn out a non-issue in the end.
>
> Joerg
It's already a non-issue. There are systems essentially the same in
perfect pool and in the billiard atlas.
S
bp
You can copyright a aiming system ? Thats a new one on me.
JoeyA
unable to reach him.
Regards,
Joey
"Joerg Klein" <jo...@glink.net.hk> wrote in message
news:8t6pc3$io$1...@unix2.glink.net.hk...
> A verbal description by Hal himself has just been re-posted by Fred Agnir
> under another 'Hal-Thread' in RSB. Based on that I don't see why I
shouldn't
> distribute some diagrams that help visualize what he's saying. Anyway, I
> have just sent my document to Hal for approval to distribute it. I believe
> that's the most appropriate way, maybe he can offer some comments to make
it
> even better before I pass it on.
>
> It would be great if somebody from RSB who sees him or calls him
> occasionally could ask him to check his email...(I don't want to call him
> because I am in Hong Kong with about 12 hours time difference).
>
> Joerg
> --
> Hompage: http://www.glink.net.hk/~joerg
> Pool Billiards, Audio and a little more
>
Ron Hudson
>>JOERGE,
>>you might want to check your copyright laws, as all of hals systems are
>>copyrighted. sounds like you have already infringed.
>>
>>linda moss
>You can copyright a aiming system ? Thats a new one on me.
Ideas and concepts, by themselves, are not subject to any intellectual property
law. An article about a system would be copyrighted by its author, but only the
original article would be protected. And there are several patents on billiard
aiming-trainer devices.
It's probably just an oversight, but the Patent and Trademark Office and the
Copyright office databases don't list anything for Hal Houle back to 1978.
Hazel Houle has some copyrights.
Ron
Smorgass Bored
The phone number I have for Hal is apparently not his cell phone so I
was unable to reach him. Regards,
Joey
(*<~ Cell phone ? CELL PHONE ? I didn't even know that he was in
jail. I hope he has a angle to get out.
baking him a cake with 45° in it,
Doug
~>*(((>< Big fish eat Little fish ><)))*<~
John Collins
"Smorgass Bored" <Smorga...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:22821-39...@storefull-124.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
LOL! Doug is Back
Poolplayer
I know he doesn't have an answering machine because he said so a while back. You
might have a while to wait for a reply because I don't think you can check webtv
email without a webtv. I may be wrong.
JoeyA wrote:
> The phone number I have for Hal is apparently not his cell phone so I was
> unable to reach him.
> Regards,
> Joey
>
> "Joerg Klein" <jo...@glink.net.hk> wrote in message
> news:8t6pc3$io$1...@unix2.glink.net.hk...
> > A verbal description by Hal himself has just been re-posted by Fred Agnir
> > under another 'Hal-Thread' in RSB. Based on that I don't see why I
> shouldn't
> > distribute some diagrams that help visualize what he's saying. Anyway, I
> > have just sent my document to Hal for approval to distribute it. I believe
> > that's the most appropriate way, maybe he can offer some comments to make
> it
> > even better before I pass it on.
> >
> > It would be great if somebody from RSB who sees him or calls him
> > occasionally could ask him to check his email...(I don't want to call him
> > because I am in Hong Kong with about 12 hours time difference).
> >
> > Joerg
> > --
> > Hompage: http://www.glink.net.hk/~joerg
> > Pool Billiards, Audio and a little more
> >
Joerg Klein
news:bcCJ5.23021$rD3.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >under another 'Hal-Thread' in RSB. Based on that I don't see why I
> shouldn't
> >distribute some diagrams that help visualize what he's saying.
>
> that he gives this information free. Also, what I posted isn't new
> information and cannot be attributed specifically to Hal's systems. That
is,
> his ball-to-ball aiming system isn't "his." Now, if you're going to write
> up some new document with visuals, would you be in danger of
misrepresenting
> Hal?
>
>
Fred,
Bert M.
>Date: 10/25/2000 8:33 PM
>
> (*<~ Cell phone ? CELL PHONE ? I didn't even know that he was in
>jail. I hope he has a angle to get out.
>
>
> baking him a cake with 45=B0 in it,
>
OK this qualifies as a Post of the Week
Bert M <-- C=:-)
Bob Jewett
> You can copyright a aiming system ? Thats a new one on me.
You can copyright a specific explanation of an aiming system. I believe
that even if you post that description here, you retain a copyright to
those words arranged like that. If someone wants to propagate a clear,
illustrated description of ball-to-ball aiming, just make a copy of Major
Broadfoot's "Billiards." It is legal to make copies because the book
was published in 1896 and the copyright has run out.
Patents are a different issue, but I doubt that any patent office would
issue one for an aiming system that was over 100 years old. You could
patent a device that would help you to use such a system, though.
--
Bob Jewett
LMoss18701
>You
>might have a while to wait for a reply because I don't think you can check
>webtv
>email without a webtv.
hal will be checking in at some point, as he will be coming to fl to say with
my husband and i for an extended period as he did last year. as stated in
another post anyone wishing to contact hal may leave word with me by e-mail
linda moss
LMoss18701
>You can copyright a specific explanation of an aiming system. I believe
>that even if you post that description here, you retain a copyright to
>those words arranged like that.
thank you Bob for your explanation.
LINDA MOSS
LMoss18701
>Copyright office databases don't list anything for Hal Houle back to 1978.
>Hazel Houle has some copyrights.
hal houle is 76 years old.
linda moss
jason shanaman
known as the fraction system or aiming by covering portions on the ball.
It works great for almost every shot and has improved my shotmaking
greatly. But again it isn't new and I have seen it explained in books
before. I just wish I would have tried it earlier. I can't see how Hal
can copyright something like this considering it is availale elsewhere
with no reference to him.
Jason
Rupert Ward
> It's probably just an oversight, but the Patent and Trademark Office and the
> Hazel Houle has some copyrights.
Are you saying that you have to register to own copyright in the US?
Here in the UK copyright is automatic. So long as you can prove that
you are the originator, you own the copyright. There'd be no point
trying to search to see if someone owns any copyrights.
Of course, this only applies to things which are copyrightable...
Rupe.
--
Ru...@arseweb.com
http://arseweb.com (the original Arsenal website)
http://arseweb.com/rupe/pool/ (UK 8-ball rules)
Deno J. Andrews
----------
In article <u4bevsk2q4bq4tvut...@4ax.com>, Ron Hudson
<R...@LocalPool.com> wrote:
> It's probably just an oversight, but the Patent and Trademark Office and the
> Copyright office databases don't list anything for Hal Houle back to 1978.
> Hazel Houle has some copyrights.
Well something does not have to be officially copyrighted to be protected
by copyright laws. It certainly helps though.
Deno
gide...@my-deja.com
Rupert Ward <Ruper...@umds.ac.uk> wrote:
> Ron Hudson wrote:
> > It's probably just an oversight, but the Patent and Trademark
Office and the
> > Copyright office databases don't list anything for Hal Houle back
to 1978.
> > Hazel Houle has some copyrights.
>
> Here in the UK copyright is automatic. So long as you can prove that
> you are the originator, you own the copyright. There'd be no point
> trying to search to see if someone owns any copyrights.
As I understand it, at one point, U.S. law did require registration,
but now adopts the Berne Convention, which does not require
registration. Further up this thread I list some cites with a basic
explaination of copyright law.
Gideon
halh...@webtv.net
Hal Houle
halh...@webtv.net
domain. You must get permission to quote, diseminate, or publish in full
context. For purposes of critique you may quote small parts, but not the
material in it's entirety.
Hal Houle
halh...@webtv.net
Hal Houle
halh...@webtv.net
Hal Houle
Ron Hudson
>Copyright is automatic the moment you create the system.
>
>Hal Houle
Except, Hal, that a system, in and of itself, is not subject to copyright.
Never has been. The document that you write to describe the system is, but
that's all.
Please refer to the US Copyright Office website:
http://www.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ1.html#wci
and click on and read the section: "What is not protected by copyright."
Ron
LMoss18701
>hal will be checking in at some point
HAL HOULE has returned to california due to poor health. you may e-mail him at
home.
linda moss
Smorgass Bored
HAL HOULE has returned to california due to poor health. you may e-mail
him at home.
linda moss
(*<~ Yadda,yadda,yadda.... Sure. He just didn't want to come to Tampa
and get his Bop on the nose.
Like Domino's, We Deliver.
hope he's better, SOON.... imo
LMoss18701
> Yadda,yadda,yadda.... Sure. He just didn't want to come to Tampa
>and get his Bop on the nose.
> Like Domino's, We Deliver.
i can still come doug!! when do you want me!!! ha!ha!
linda moss
bp
>Copyright is automatic the moment you create the system.
>
What did you actually create ?
>Hal Houle
Bob Jewett
> Copyright is automatic the moment you create the system.
I think you have to publish something before you can get a copyright.
Also, the copyright doesn't cover the idea, it just covers the
particular wording of your particular explanation. Without the specific
wording to point to, there is nothing to copyright.
It is possible to protect ideas that are proprietary (private) with
non-disclosure agreements, but these need to be signed by the parties.
Recently, the patent office has started to issue patents on algorithms
(a series of mathematical steps) for particular purposes. The RSA
"public key" cryptosystem, which is based on math that was known before
1850, but that math is used in a novel way for a particular purpose, so
it got a patent. Previously, patents had to be based on realizable
devices, I think, like a mouse trap with automatic reset.
--
Bob Jewett
gide...@my-deja.com
Bob Jewett <jew...@netcom.com> wrote:
> halh...@webtv.net wrote:
>
> > Copyright is automatic the moment you create the system.
>
> I think you have to publish something before you can get a copyright.
Yes and no, depending on what you mean by "publish". If you mean
publish as in a book or magazine, then no. What you are required to do
is have the work "fixed" in some medium. Recorded on a tape, reduced
to writing, drawn on paper, saved on disk. The website Ron Hudson
cites gives a pretty clear explanation on this.
jwy...@remove-extracolumbus.rr.com
elucidated the following:
I was having a conversation recently with a gentleman who suggested
that we take a business idea that we've been developing and apply for
a "Methods Patent". This was a unique concept in my mind and we are
starting to do some research as to:
a) Can you indeed patent a method?
b) How do you enforce it?
c) How do you prove someone else didn't stumble across the
same method?
d) How can you prove damages?
e) What is the real value of spending $10+K to patent a method.
LLDs, opinions?
--Jim
Smorgass Bored
(*<~ No thanks. I wanted somebody I could LEARN something from.
didn't I already BEAT Linda & Becky ? <g>
Ron Hudson
>I was having a conversation recently with a gentleman who suggested
>that we take a business idea that we've been developing and apply for
>a "Methods Patent". This was a unique concept in my mind and we are
>starting to do some research as to:
> a) Can you indeed patent a method?
> b) How do you enforce it?
> c) How do you prove someone else didn't stumble across the
> same method?
> d) How can you prove damages?
> e) What is the real value of spending $10+K to patent a method.
>
>LLDs, opinions?
>
>--Jim
>
Jim,
I think you are referring to the "Automated Financial or Management Data
Processing Methods" patent designation. It appears that it's pretty specific
to cover machines and their corresponding methods used in performing data
processing operations, and it also appears to be pretty specific about in which
industries the patent applies.
This is covered in white paper publication," which is here:
http://www.uspto.gov/web/menu/busmethp/index.html
Their full website is here:
http://www.uspto.gov/web/menu/pats.html
Ron
Bvinco
magnifying glass. :o)
Becky
Doug <snipped>
LMoss18701
> i can still come doug!! when do you want me!!! ha!ha!
>linda moss
>
> (*<~ No thanks. I wanted somebody I could LEARN something from.
> didn't I already BEAT Linda & Becky ? <g>
YOUR BRAGGING ABOUT BEATING A "BLIND" WOMAN THAT DAY!!! eye surgery???
LINDA MOSS