Boycott Accu-Stats: DVDs are not the future, they are here and now!
Russ Chewning a.k.a. Pogue
get the single source for professionally taped to listen to our
views.. Please let me know if you agree that we need to be able to
start buying pool matches on DVD, since over 50% of homes have DVD
players in them, DVD is taking over from VHS, and this cannot be
argued.
Also let us all make it clear to Pat Fleming that we love his
service, but if he is adding so much to the videos he is producing,
that it is becoming too expensive to travel to the tournaments, then
we would be quite happy with less bells and whistles. Tellustrators
(sp?) are not necessary, IMHO, and if they add significantly to the
price of a match, drop them altogether. The prices are fine where they
are, as long as they don't exceed $30 for the high profile matches,
I'm happy..
But GIVE ME DVD!! I watch my tapes constantly, and am now at the
point where the quality of my tapes is starting to degrade very
noticably..
Please, poolplayers unite!! Tell Pat that you'll postpone all your
purchases of new matches until DVD is available. He has told me
personally it is "scheduled" for early 2003, but he told me the same
thing in mid-2002. I think it is quite possible that we won't get it
until we really start pushing for it. Now, don't get me wrong, I am
sure that Pat is a perfectly honest and upstanding citizen, but he is
constrained by business requirements.
He may not do it until he knows unequivocably (sp??) that there is a
MAJOR demand for it..
I make this statement right now, and boldly. I will buy no more new
matches until Accu-Stats offers them on DVD. I have contacts from
whome I can buy used tapes for a fraction of the cost of the new. I
want to watch pool now. And would gladly buy them now if they were on
DVD, but the simple truth is that people have been asking for DVD
matches for over two years. DVD authoring is very much affordable for
even the smallest business now, and until I see a posting from Pat
Fleming on here, I will continue to encourage other poolplayers who
want DVDs to delay buying new matches until they are available.
All the buggers who will no doubt respond to this post with prompts
to start up a competing business, and take some of Pat's profits
instead of complaining", can by all means, stuff it.. I am simply
trying to organize other players to voice their opinions on what they
want, and to act on it.
I am sick and tired of my VCR eating an Accu Stats tape when it goes
bad. I am tired of lines showing up in all of my matches purchased
before 1998. I am tired of the video on my tapes getting slightly
darker, and fuzzier after two or three years of constant use.
None of these happens with DVD, if you take care of them..
Just MY Humble Opinion,
Let us all know what you think,
Russ "Pogue" Chewning
P.S. This same post will be going to a lot of the newsgroup and
message boards..
ABetterTomorrow2
matches adn charges an outrageous $29 bucks a tape.. i'll never buy one.
f.l.
ps. i was thinking about this last night.. time for DVD from them.
Smorgass Bored
Boycott Accu-Stats: DVDs are not the future, they are here and now!
Russ Chewning a.k.a. Pogue growled:
quality of my tapes is starting to degrade very noticably..
cost of the new.
goes bad. I am tired of lines showing up in all of my matches purchased
before 1998. I am tired of the video on my tapes getting slightly
darker, and fuzzier after two or three years of constant use.
"Pogue" Chewning
(*<~ Sure glad I won all that money from you at one-pocket, to
reimburse me for buying all your tapes (let's see, paid $170 and won
$220, minus a small 'walkin stick'). I'll let em all go for $250. Yeah,
that's the ticket, $250.
when are you selling your Accu-Stats DVDs
NEXT,
Doug
~>*(((>< Big fish eat Little fish ><)))*<~
Russ Chewning a.k.a. Pogue
When I get back from Qatar in 2 1/2 months, you still got 9-6 if you want it..
Gonna cost you $100 a game tho. I'm gonna get my money back..
Pogue
Smorga...@webtv.net (Smorgass Bored) wrote in message news:<17813-3DF...@storefull-2314.public.lawson.webtv.net>...
Smorgass Bored
Russ Chewning chewed up:
Doug,
When I get back from Qatar in 2 1/2 months, you
still got 9-6 if you want it..
Gonna cost you $100 a game tho. I'm gonna get my
money back..
(*<~ I'll take it. Are you sure you can hit the white ball for a 100
?
I'm skepical,
Russ Chewning a.k.a. Pogue
games.. If you have any plans to do that, then we might as well just
play a 5 or 6 ahead match, because I don't want you quitting on me
because I won't give you 9-5 or some crap like that.. If there is need
for a spot adjustment next time, it will on be to 10-6, NOT 9-5..
Pogue
(Learned his lesson last time..)
Smorga...@webtv.net (Smorgass Bored) wrote in message news:<26860-3DF...@storefull-2311.public.lawson.webtv.net>...
Unknown
for pool players to see championship level play with intelligent
commentary. Two issues have been voiced here, neither of which makes
sense.
A) Boycott them because they havent produced DVDs. As if denying
Accustats revenue would somehow force them to produce DVDs. No, that
would put them out of business leaving us with ESPN with production
values aimed at the lowest common demominator in pool. The reason why
Pat Fleming has not done DVDs is because they are REALLY EXPENSIVE to
produce. Going back to old Beta and DVCam masters and re-authoring
matches is very time consuming and expensive. Exactly how many tapes
do you think he can sell?
B) Which brings us to the second point, that the tapes are too
expensive. Yes they are expensive, but the costs to make them are
enormous, as anyone who has been to major tournament where they are
taping can attest to. At the US OPEN in 2001 they had at least 4 staff
members plus enough equipment to stack up a large size Ryder truck.
There were dozens of cables as big as your wrist snaked all around,
plus huge lighting arrays and TV sized cameras.All this expense and
they then these tapes dont exactly sell like huge numbers. I would
honestly be surprised if they push more than a hundred units on
average for each tape produced. As for monopoly, take a reality check
here, Accustats is the sole major player because NO ONE ELSE WANTS TO
DO IT. Pat has only survived this long because he has a passion
towards the game and has lived lean years where many companies would
have just say screw it this it too much hassle for not enough money.
Support the things that you love and they will support you.
On 08 Dec 2002 03:48:34 GMT, abettert...@aol.com
Mark Maxey
You can go and buy several pioneer a04 drives at $300 a piece. Buy media at
$1 a piece. Its a couple thousands dollars in an investment, but with this
equipment you can make as many copies as you have drives. It only takes
about 15 minutes or so to burn a full 4.7GB of data onto the DVD
recordables. If you have 4 drives thats 4 dvds in 15 minutes.
Please explain to me why this is such a ridiculous expense? Especially
considering they probably already are doing the editing/mastering on a
computer anyways and this is the new standard in video. VHS is a dead
format.
<David Uwate> wrote in message
news:vo89vug3141vc244r...@4ax.com...
Russ Chewning a.k.a. Pogue
Get off your high horse dude.. Pat spends WAY more now than he
used to.. So much techno-wizardy.. And we still can't tell the fucking
difference between an 8 ball and a 7 ball... People have told him
before.. WE DON"T NEED FOUR CAMERAS!!
An angled overhead, one camera, is just fine, and a LOT cheaper I
might add.. I don't want to hear whining about how expensive it is...
Would you buy an old six pack storage device (dating myself here) that
stands 3 feet tall, and two feet wide if it had a really good pool
match on it??? Probably not, because you won't have a way to watch
it..
Same with VHS.. It is going the way of the dinosaur... And one
doesn't NEED to remastering the old copies... Just burn them directly
to DVD.. There are many inexpensive ways to do it... And as far as the
cameras, if you have the right type of camera today, you can attach it
directly to a $2000 computer, and edit it directly on your PC, and
burn it directly to DVD.
DVD is MORE expensive??? Are you friggin smokin crack?? If you
need me to, I can give you the links to about 100 sites that will
explain why it is in fact CHEAPER to produce DVDs than VHS..
But i DOUBT you would take the time.. You are too busy running off
at the mouth, without doing your research..
The end point is.. Most of us want DVDs.. Give us what we want.. Or
go out of business..
Pogue
David Uwate <> wrote in message news:<vo89vug3141vc244r...@4ax.com>...
WilleeCue
"Mark Maxey" <sp...@aol.com> wrote
> VHS is a dead format.
Isn't that what they said about cassette audio tapes?
Yet they still sell enough of them to keep making them.
Yes ... DVD's would be a desired improvement and I am sure someday you will be
able to get them from Accu-Stats.
William Lee
Mark Maxey
vhs.
DVD is better for the end user and better for accu-stats profit wise.
"WilleeCue" <wil...@stx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:GHcJ9.146445$8D.41...@twister.austin.rr.com...
WilleeCue
"Russ Chewning a.k.a. Pogue" <rchew...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:510319e7.02120...@posting.google.com...
> But i DOUBT you would take the time.. You are too busy running off
> at the mouth, without doing your research..
> The end point is.. Most of us want DVDs.. Give us what we want.. Or
> go out of business..
> Pogue
Pouge, I would hate to see you really mad about something. <G>
I fully understand your point and it is a valid one.
DVD would be a higher quality format than VHS ... no question about that.
The newest technology is high definition TV and believe me you CAN see the
numbers on the balls with HDTV.
(the English have had it for years)
High definition Accu-Stat DVD's ... Now that would be really cool!
William Lee
Ron Shepard
rchew...@yahoo.com (Russ Chewning a.k.a. Pogue) wrote:
> DVD is MORE expensive??? Are you friggin smokin crack?? If you
> need me to, I can give you the links to about 100 sites that will
> explain why it is in fact CHEAPER to produce DVDs than VHS..
The previous post described burning individual DVDs the way I would
burn a DVD of my summer vacation on my Mac. Are there other ways to
make DVDs like there are CDs? Music CDs are not burned
individually, they are stamped in mass production. Can DVDs be
stamped in a similar way? What is the cost to make, say, 100 or
1000 identical DVDs?
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Mark Maxey
expensive although I don't really see a need for it due to the relative few
number of units that accu-stats ships.
Even if the matches took up a whole DVD which I would HIGHLY doubt with 6
DVD burners running solid for 24 hours at 1 disc every 15 minutes thats 576
discs per day which isn't shabby for the costs. Really, Accustats could
burn the DVDs as needed for that matter.
For the techies out there, this would be a VERY easy way for them to roll
out an inexpensive storage/DVD burning solution.
Have one machine with a lot of storage (ie 600GB or so) or a DVD jukebox
(expensive) with ISO images of all the matches in it. Have a visual basic
application query a database that would search and find the proper cd image
to burn. The user would simply throw in a disc and then using the Nero
Burning Rom (the best windows cdr software) API burn the DVD or if need be
multiple copies all through a custom interface.
This sounds like a lot, but it would be considerably less than 10K i'd
imagine to throw it all together software included.
Working within an all digital medium would allow accu-stats to deliver a
better product to their users and streamline their product creation. So I
really see no reason to waste time with VHS unless people specifically
request it.
"Ron Shepard" <ron-s...@NOSPAM.attbi.com> wrote in message
news:ron-shepard-7A43...@netnews.attbi.com...
Eddie
do not issue matches on DVD.
A Sony VX-2000 right off the shelf at $2600 will shoot (in DV) video
superior to what Accu-stats is selling today. The gear required for them to
put out matches in DVD might have been $500,000. five of six years ago but
it's less than $3000. for the whole nut right now.
I want a pool tournament on VHS about as bad as I want "Dark Side of the
Moon" on 8-track tape.
The younger guys here probably haven't even seen an 8-track tape!
I don't think you will even be able to rent a VHS tape in 5 years. Probably
less than 5 years.
Accu-stats, if you issue matches on DVD I will order 15 or so during the
next 18 months. If you continue to distribute on VHS then I won't buy squat.
Plug that into your business model.
Get real Accu-stats. For less than ten grand I can buy two Sony VX-2000's,
lights, a laptop, new software at retail, and six DVD writers. Go digital
fast or go under.
Eddie in Detroit
Carter Adams
I just saw an ad from a place here in Atlanta that will do 1,000 for
$2,995. I don't remember the details though, I could look it up if
anyone is interested in finding out more.
~Carter <-- thinking about video taping a match at the local hall and
producing a DVD just to see exactly what is involved - Pat may be in
trouble! ;o)
Ron Shepard <ron-s...@NOSPAM.attbi.com> wrote in message news:<ron-shepard-7A43...@netnews.attbi.com>...
Eddie
http://www.vcdhelp.com/
Another really good source of info is the newsgroup rec.video.desktop
Eddie in Detroit
Smorgass Bored
Fact. Accu-stats has lost out on quite a bit of Eddie revenue because
they do not issue matches on DVD.
the next 18 months. If you continue to distribute on VHS then I won't
buy squat.
(*<~ I will NOT buy DVD. However, I am prepared to dig up some of
the Smorga$$ fortune and offer $1 tape for everyone switching from
Accu-Stats VHS to DVD.
hey, somebody had to belly up to the table like a man......
nos...@nospam.prodigy.net
>This thread is moronic. Accustats represents the ONLY decent source
>for pool players to see championship level play with intelligent
>commentary. Two issues have been voiced here, neither of which makes
>sense.
Gotta agree with this. In fact, after viewing an Accustats video
recently, I just joined up for their video-of-the-month club. $30 a
video?! Hell, I can drop that in table time on a slow afternoon. $4.95
for shipping and handling? A few cubes of chalk. Watching Francisco
Bustamante play pin-point position? Priceless.
Sure I'd rather have them on DVD. It would mean I could store them all
in a much smaller space. But as far as anything else goes, what do I
care? It's not as if I plan on leaving Duehl v. Strickland to my
grandchildren. I just want to watch good matches that either (a) will
never air on ESPN, or (b) don't suddenly cut from a view of the table
to an utterly useless "pocket cam" shot (Apparently ESPN does this so
that I can see what it's like to be a very tiny man standing inside
the pocket and about to be crushed by a large orange ball, a situation
which is interesting to ponder while on mind-altering substances but
which is unlikely to occur during an actual game.).
Yes, it would be nice to see some graphics on the tapes, but when you
consider the number of man hours it would take to put graphics to each
and every match--well, I think $29 would seem like a bargain compared
to what the price could be. And are you really missing anything by
having a little X drawn on the screen rather than hearing one of the
announcers say. "He'll try to play safe by putting the cue ball right
behind the 7"?
Rob
Vader93490
>these
>matches adn charges an outrageous $29 bucks a tape.. i'll never buy one.
>
Pat may have a monopoly, but for those of us that don't get ESPN or Prime
Network or wherever pool is run on now in our homes, it's our only avenue for
watching well-played pool.
John Barton
"WilleeCue" <wil...@stx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:GHcJ9.146445$8D.41...@twister.austin.rr.com...
>
You can get new music on cassettes?
About all I ever see in cassettes is the Pat Boone sings Sammy Davis
Junior's rendition of Patsy Cline's Hits at the truck stops. :-)
John
Vader93490
>will be
>> able to get them from Accu-Stats.
>>
>> William Lee
DVD would be a very positive step forward for Accu-stats, plus it might be a
good way to bring back some of the older out of print matches provided the
master copies still exist... or keep the really good ones preserved for much
longer than tape allows.
As it is, I'm not sure what the ratio is for DVD players in households as
opposed to VCRs. I'm sure it will go up with the onslaught of the cheap $60
DVD player models that have flooded the retail markets.
Rankin Johnson IV
not before.
/s/ Rankin Johnson IV
Carter Adams
I just received my new Accu-Stats catalog yesterday (go to:
http://www.accu-stats.com/LateEdition.html#cat
to see it online).
Anyway, at the bottom of page 50 is:
"NEW!!! DVD comes to Accu-Stats! Accu-Stats is about to introduce your
favorite matches on DVD.
Give us a call and let us know what you would like to see.
800.828.0397."
Looks like Pat was listening!!!!
~Carter
rchew...@yahoo.com (Russ Chewning a.k.a. Pogue) wrote in message news:<510319e7.0212...@posting.google.com>...
Unknown
a.k.a. Pogue) wrote:
> But i DOUBT you would take the time.. You are too busy running off
>at the mouth, without doing your research..
You are the one who needs to go back and do some research, not me. I
am well informed on this having three media 100 studios doing dvd
authoring work about 50 yards from my desk. The real cost here is NOT
the duplication as so many have pointed out, duplication costs are
quite cheap. The cost that is preventing Pat from going forward is the
labor to author these dvds from the Beta and DVCam masters Pat is
using. This is not as simple as taking an old tape and burning it to a
DVD. Thats not how things work. You have to author the work, create
menus, there has to be a master created for the duplication houses to
work from. Professional duplication houses are not a collection of
$300 Pioneer A04 drives that will accept your Mpeg or DiVx movies and
say alright 2k for 1000 packages.
Sure, anyone can go get a vcr with svideo outs and a $1500 pc with a
capture card and fat harddrives and do a HACK job at converting VHS to
DVD. The results I am sure will be be watchable but will not be
anything Accustats would ever want to put their name on.
Frank G
> Looks like Pat was listening!!!!
>
He may still lurk.
--
Frank G
Frank-at-Quick-Clean.com
Clean your pool table cloth with our unique product.
www.quick-clean.com
Russ Chewning a.k.a. Pogue
holds the same quality as their current matches?? If that is what we
say we want? I want a DVD now, so my matches won't disintegrate, not
so it looks prettier than the matches do now. The quality of a new VHS
match is very good, I would not mind having the same quality on DVD
until Pat gets the money to buy the cameras that the person in another
post alluded to. And furthermore, the DVR-A04's come with DVD
authoring software pre-packaged, and Pat would not need to do anything
more than simply copy the existing VHS match, which has already been
edited, to DVD, one track. Get those out there first.. THEN worry
about putting chapters in. What menus do I need?? Do you not think any
pool player watching a match will be MORE than satisfied, as long as
he can hit the "forward chapter" button, and skip to the next game?
We don't NEED a menu... Sure, it MIGHT be nice, (I say "might"
because Pat has gravitated towards increasing his own costs in the
last year, by adding cameras, three commentators, etc... If it adds
cost, no need for menus, at least in my mind.) but not necessary.
The way I see it, I like the look of the matches just fine. But I
HATE it when I pause, fast-forward, or rewind my tape, and KNOW I am
destroying the quality little by little. Don't give me all that
horseshit about a HACK job.. Putting out VHS only when a lot of your
customers want DVD is an AMATUER job..
'nuff said...
Exasperated Pogue
David Uwate <> wrote in message news:<qgahvuocso07dinic...@4ax.com>...
Russ Chewning a.k.a. Pogue
To all the little biYATCHes who complained about me complainin'
don't rush TOO quickly to put in your orders for DVDs, ya little
hypocrites!!! You all can thank me later!! (As if) To all that
supported me, thank you a lot.. You did it for yourselves, stood up
for your rights as consumers, and I am very proud of you..
Pogue
P.S. Thanks for the info Carter.. I took a look at the "Late Edition"
yesterday, but just didn't see that on page 50..
cla3...@netscape.net (Carter Adams) wrote in message news:<e5db7878.02121...@posting.google.com>...
Unknown
would consider amateur takes considerable time. For example, if Pat is
using DVCam tapes he would need to dump them to his drives and still
produce a master for the duplication house. The DVCam tapes are not a
1:1 transfer to DVD. The DVD format comes in either 4.35 GB (DVD5) or
8.4 GB (DVD9) format and the DVCam Tapes will be significantly more
data than that. Pat would need to downsample (re-encode) these tapes
which takes many many hours. After he downsamples he needs to review
his work to make sure he didnt screw it up or compress too hard
certain areas. The authoring work is not all about adding bells and
whistles, alot of it is basic stuff like making sure the sound is in
sync with video and selecting the right encoding level. He could not
get around the fact that he needs to author a DVD, burn test copies
and then dump backups and the master to alternative format like DLT
for storage and delivery to the duplication house.
He is not going to produce a DVD that does not have chapter points or
else you would have one large movie file that could only be navigated
by fast forward and reverse and not by jumping to chapter points. You
say that you dont care, but I can tell you that Pat is not going to
produce spend the time to produce a DVD and skip the process to make
chapters and a basic menu at the very least. Most DVD consumers want
more than the VHS offers and from the marketing point of view, the
time spent adding a special feature or two to the DVD like perhaps
current score/ running accustats % etc will also allow him leverage to
get people who own VHS to move to DVD. Not everyone who has tapes on
VHS will buy those exact same matches on DVD. The DVD medium allows
for higher quality video and sound, longer lasting medium, but all of
these features will not get someone who has Efren vs Earl 15-14 to
buy the same match on DVD. What WILL get them to give serious thought
to the matter is if there are features on the DVD that the VHS did not
have (running totals, more video on the interview, better graphics,
ability to jump from game to game, etc) .
Russ, you want what EVERYONE who loves pool wants, you want DVDs of
championship level play. I am so looking forward to this myself that I
have been thinking about doing my own with just the VHS as a source
material. The reality of this is that not only is it not easy for Pat
to convert to DVD, this move contains a high level of risk to capital
as Pat will have heavy costs to do this conversion and the payday for
him at the end will likely be minimal unless he can move a fair amount
of units of each DVD. I think if we do see DVD soon, it will be only
for select matches and you will likely see a price point in the 20s or
even 30s for each unit at the minimum.
On 12 Dec 2002 15:46:30 -0800, rchew...@yahoo.com (Russ Chewning