Breaks
lfigueroa
rack), given exactly the same stroke, and hitting the ball at the front
of the pack in exactly the same spot, does the CB react differently?
Lou Figueroa
PatH
I don't understand the question. What is the variable? The # of
balls in the rack or the fact that the exact same stroke is almost
impossible to duplicate for us mere mortals?
PatH...18 in of snow will muddle my brain a bit
lfigueroa
Lou Figueroa
must
drink
more
coffee
PatH
break from the same spot and hit the same ball for both 9-ball and 8-
ball and my cue ball seems to behave differently. Maybe it's just my
imagination
PatH
Ron Shepard
lfigueroa <lfig...@att.net> wrote:
If the balls are really frozen together, then they do tend to act all
together, at least to some extent, as a single mass. But if there are
gaps, even very tiny ones, then they don't; the balls act individually.
So in addition to whether there are 9 balls or 15 balls (or 6, 7, 10),
it depends also on if and where the gaps are in the rack.
If you can get at least the front three balls in the rack frozen, then
the cue ball will bounce back from the head ball on the break shot.
This is like a light object hitting a heavy object, it rebounds back, in
contrast to a solid object hitting another solid object with the same
mass (the first one stops as it transfers all of its momentum to the
second one). I think if more balls are frozen then the cue ball will
bounce back even more, but it is a diminishing effect, so there would be
less difference between, say 6 frozen balls and 10 frozen balls than
there would be between hitting just 1 ball (with gaps between the next
two) and hitting 3 frozen balls.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
John Black
says...
> oh, sorry, 9ball rack vs 8ball rack.
>
> Lou Figueroa
> must
> drink
> more
> coffee
>
>
> PatH wrote:
> > On Dec 10, 6:59 am, lfigueroa <lfigue...@att.net> wrote:
> >> So just curious: because of the amount of mass (# of balls in the
> >> rack), given exactly the same stroke, and hitting the ball at the front
> >> of the pack in exactly the same spot, does the CB react differently?
Does your cue ball really behave the same from break to break even within
the same game?
John Black
bk4...@hotmail.com
wrote:
> In article <hfqrbd$ku...@news.eternal-september.org>,
OK, so assuming an imaginary "perfect" world where every ball in the
rack is perfectly frozen to it's neighbor, the 15-ball rack would
cause the CB to rebound back more than the 9-ball rack? An
insignificant amount you say, but how much more, can you quantify?
And would "rebound back" in this context mean more initial speed?
C'mon Ron, get out your slide rule!
Bob Keller
(Anybody interested in a nice vintage Pickett 800-ES with hard case?)
Jal
>
> Lou Figueroa
For both 8-ball and 9-ball racks hit squarely down the middle, the
cueball rebounds as if it had collided with a mass about 50% larger
than its own (i.e., ~ 1-1/2 ball masses). This is according to the
video provided by Dr. Dave here (see HSV B-45):
http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_speed_videos/index.html
Bob Jewett came up with roughly similar figures for at least one of
the racks (9 or 15 balls).
This will likely vary a bit with a square hit on the apex ball, but
with a different angle of approach, as when shooting from the side
rail.
The main reason why the cluster's mass appears so small to the cueball
is the sideways motions of the balls after the break. They carry away
energy which is disassociated with the cueball's pre-impact direction
(momentum). If the cluster was a single solid mass, they would store
this as potential energy (briefly) and then return it as kinetic
energy via decompression forces. In other words, they don't push back
as much, particularly, back at the cueball. Ron may have a more
accurate way of describing it.
Okay, I don't know why the effective masses of the two different racks
are so similar, though. It's a very complicated interaction and people
still submit papers on the much simpler Newton's Cradle every now and
then. That device is equivalent to the two in-line clusters shown in
the video.
Jim
Carter Adams
wrote:
I'd swap you a copy of my book - let me know if you're interested...
www.CartersBilliardsLibrary.com
~Carter
lfigueroa
8ball, there's a difference, just not much of one, right?
Lou Figueroa
lfigueroa
When I play the ghost at 9ball, I try and break so that the CB doesn't
hit a rail, unless kicked by an OB. When successful, I give myself a
little greenie point :-) At a minimum, I try and achieve q consistent
break where the CB stays mid-table or at least does not travel down table.
Here are three things that have helped:
Consistent CB placement
Consistent grip placement
Consistent contact point between cue shaft and bridge hand.
Lou Figueroa
lfigueroa
Lou Figueroa
John Black
says...
> Here are three things that have helped:
>
> Consistent CB placement
> Consistent grip placement
> Consistent contact point between cue shaft and bridge hand.
Thanks. Bridge hand on the rail or on the table? If rail, side rail or
back rail?
I currently like bridge hand on the back rail for 8-ball but I see a lot of
people do 8-ball with bridge hand on the table and 9-ball with bridge hand
on the side rail.
John Black
PatH
find a spot I like. I think this can vary depending on the equipment
and the racker. For 8-ball I tend to start with my bridge hand on
the table but could move to bridge on the side rail. For 9-ball I
start on the side rail and may move to on the table if I'm not making
balls.
PatH..got to stay flexible
On Dec 11, 11:24 am, John Black <jbl...@texas.net> wrote:
> In article <hftgc2$np...@news.eternal-september.org>, lfigue...@att.net
Jal
Lou, I said the 'main reason' for the low effective mass of the rack
is the sideways motions of the balls. My apology, but I felt a little
queasy when writing that, and I don't think it's right. I believe the
larger factor is that the balls lined up in straight rows, as along
the perimeter of the triangle behind the apex ball, act something like
Newton's cradles. The video by Dr. Dave indicates an approximately
equivalent effective mass of about 1.1 balls for both two ball and
four ball "clusters" in a straight line. This probably explains why 9-
ball and 8-ball racks are about the same as far as the cueball is
concerned. Other than that speculation. I probably shouldn't say any
more.
Jim
lfigueroa
I can't break consistently from the rail.
Lou Figueroa