I'm not gonna claim it a conspiracy but did anyone see last nights Game??
God, How many times will Stockton be allowed to push D. Fischer or Nick
Van Exel into a Karl Malone Pick?  I'm not talking about running them into
the pick either.  Last Night on about 5 occassions when Stockton drove to
the hoop, he would use his arm to push off the defender.  (If they meet
Mikey and Da Bulls in the finals, I can assure you the Refs and whoever is
announcing the game will see it. )  Worst than that were those phantom
calls that the Jazz recieved.  A few times Karl Malone got the Call when
he was all alone.  I believe that theres a conspiracy going on but let's
wait and see.

--
Later

In article <Diesel-1905980913570...@as5200-13.sl033.cns.vt.edu>,
  Die...@GSULaw.edu (Diesel) wrote:

About as long as Shaq will use his butt to shove Foster out of the way.

What comes around goes around.

Jeff

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/   Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

On 19 May 1998, Diesel wrote:

        Yes I saw it and am still vomitting in disgust.

        As many times as it takes them to gain the lead and secure it in
the 4th quarter.

        You only counted 5?  Open your eyes man!!!!!

        The most blatant was that last one on Shaq after Malone took the
jump shot.  He was not touched at all.  I must admire the Lakers for
maintaining their composure in the face of such blatant favoratism to the
Jazz.

        Why wait and see?  You are probably right.  The Lakers are gonna
have plenty of time to win championships down the road with their young
team.  The league has gotta give Utah another chance before arthritis
and senility start setting in.

In article <Pine.OSF.3.96.980519113936.32207A-100...@osf1.gmu.edu>,

You gotta think Bigger than just Utah.  Nobody wants Utah to win except
their families and fans (that's about the same).  The conspiracy  is Da
Bulls.  Now D. Stern has centered this playoff run as to keep Da Bulls
together.  He realizes that if Da Bulls loose they will definitely split
ways.  If they win it all, the owner will do everything possible to keep
them together.  ( I interpret that as he will make Phil Jacks. the GM of
Da Bulls) .  This insures that MJ stays in the league.  Ultimately, the
league continues to make money off the millions of Sheep that believe that
Jordan is better than Wilt.   So the game that D. Stern starts to play is
who can Da Buils beat??  Well, they beat Utah last year and Ostertag is
not that much better than last year.  Shaq and the Lakers totally
dismantled a very good defensive team (Seattle).  Da Bulls hasn't played
very well against dominate Centers.  So Utah gets the free ride.  What
does this Mean?  Well in the 2nd round the Spurs had to be eliminated they
were too big and played defense too well; Chuck Norris Malone and his
Super Kick to the Rescue.   Chuck Norris Malone's kick were tolerated that
whole series and they made a difference in the mental portion of the
game.   I guareentee that Chuck Norris Malone will get a Memo about kicks
before the Chicago Series .  ShaqFu is too Dominate.  PushEm Down Stockton
to the rescue.  This is no longer basketball, it has become some type of
soap opera.  Tune in tonight to see if they allow Da Bulls to foul as they
please?

--
Later

If the league has decided to hand the Bulls the championship by means of
the officiating, why would it care who the team faced in the finals?
Similarly, if the Lakers can be eliminated by bad refereeing in the Utah
series, why not simply save that part of the plan until the finals?
Surely the league and NBC would prefer a Bulls/Lakers series than a
repeat of last year's matchup.  As Diesel himself (the ng contributor,
not the center) points out, "nobody wants Utah to win except their
families and fans."  This theory has some holes in it.

I did say nobody wants Utah but I was mistaken.  Utah 1st and foremost is
a team that the Bulls can run with.  Utah will not run many fast breaks
and tire the Bulls out.  The Lakers on the other hand would.  The key to
the conspiracy still resides in the fact that the Bulls must win.  It
doesn't matter anymore what fans want.  I would hope that all fans would
want fairly called games and the best team wins.  (If not then somebody
should just hand the title to the Bulls now.   Also take away both of
Houston's Championships from a few years ago and most of the Celtics
championships while Wilt was with the 76ers.)  That's not what we're
getting when the refs whistle can determine the winner and loser of these
games.  That's not what we're getting when D. Stern tell refs to protect
the superstars.  We no longer have Basketball, we have Sports
Entertainment.

The **if** is correct, there's no real proof of a conspiracy yet.    The
other thing is that Utah looks better on paper and is a perfect team for
the unsuspecting sheep.  The unsuspecting sheep will believe Utah gives a
challenge because they hold homecourt advantage over the Bulls but D.
Stern will make sure that Homecourt means nothing.   If you listened to D.
Stern during the Half of the Indiana game, he made it no secret whom he
wants to win it all and has said he'd do anything to keep the Bulls
together and Michael in the league..
As far as what NBC wants, all they want is MJ in the finals.  They went to
great lengths to get the Bulls on NBC on Sundays @ 5:30p.m during the
playoffs.  It was bad to see the Lakers start playing at 12:00 p.m. to
appease those bulls sheep.  It was worst to see the jazz San Antonio play
on TNT at 4:00 so that the Bulls wouldn't have to play @7:00 p.m.  Also,
NBC keep MJs main Man (and Babysitter, Chef, Butler, Carwasher,
Groundskeeper, etc) Ahmad Rashaad employed.  From day to day I try and
determine who's the worst suckup.  Ahmaad, Isaiah, Billy Walton, or Big
Red Kerr.  I think it's Ahmaad by far.  That's a shame for any journalist
to be so biased.

--
Later

On 20 May 1998 04:12:48 GMT, Die...@GSULaw.edu (Diesel) wrote:

Does this mean we can take away the Lakers' championships of the 80's,
or did they play a perfectly fair game of basketball, with no ref
biases?

In article <6jt7p6$nc...@newsd-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net>, wi...@webtv.net
says...

 more people will be watching.

 it's less risky now than it is later.

- nate

In article <35627d86.2459...@news.idt.net>, bbron...@idt.net (Nate Walker)
wrote:

The Lakers of the 80's had the Celtics.  It was not a foregone conclusion
who would be the champions.  D. Stern has said things to the effect that
the Bulls MUST win this year.   It's really hard to beat a team when all
the rules favor them.  Last night,  Jordan claimed that Larry Bird is a
coach.  He was testifying to the fact that the REFs give him calls.  He
even qualified this  it by saying he felt the same way when Larry was a
player.  i.e. that the REFs gave Larry calls.  It's bad when the REFs give
Jordan bad calls but it's worst when Jordan start to expect them.
Everytime Jordan doesn't get a call or gets called for a foul he crys to
the REFs.   He's the only player in the History of the Game that can put
his finger in a REFs face and not get punished for it.   I never saw Bird
crying to the REFs.

--
Later

On Tue, 19 May 1998 wi...@webtv.net wrote:

        What is your explanation for the blatant favoritism then?  If
you have eyes, I assume you have noted it?  The NBA will ride the Laker
jock for a long time once jordon and the Jazz are done.  The NBA can
benefit by playing up the Malone/Stockton "fairytale" in the finals one
more time thus giving a small market that just so happens to have two
'Famers some wide recognition, whereas LA will always have a following no
matter what (especially with the dual cockroach factor of Shaq and Kobe).

        Of course there would never be a disgruntled ex-employee with a
secret to sell to the media...  cause everyone loves this game!

[snip]

        Too late.

--
"Ed is the standard text editor."      (excerpt from Patrick J. Lopresti)
When IBM, in its ever-present omnipotence, needed to base their
"edlin" on a UNIX standard, did they mimic vi?  No.  Emacs?  Surely
you jest.  They chose the most karmic editor of all.  The standard.

JAKE,
I have to think it would be easier for the league to promote a series
between the Bulls and Lakers than between the Bulls and Jazz.  Once the
Lakers are out you've lost the casual-fan part of the second largest TV
market in the country, to say nothing of potential viewers around the
country and the world who know the Lakers from Magic and Shaq from his
movies.  The league *could* choose to promote the fairy-tale angle with
Malone and Stockton, but that's just extra work when there's a team that
has already marketed itself well.  For that matter, why choose the Jazz
for one's fairy tale?  Other teams have players seemingly more willing
and able to play charismatic front-man (viz. C. Barkley) than either
Malone or Stockton.  Might as well promote those teams.
Incidentally, I haven't seen either of the Lakers/Jazz games, so I'll
have to take your word for the crappy officiating.  How can I account
for it, short of a conspiracy?  Well, I do notice Steve Javie was on the
crew for Game 2.  That may be all one needs to know, because this guy
seems to feel the need to make his presence felt in any game he works.
Maybe it's a sign he's a good ref that he seems so uniformly disliked
throughout the league, but I've seen more than one instance where his
tendency to dominate not only the play but even the other officials has
led to a circus on the court.  Does this mean he's crooked?  It could,
but I think a simpler explanation is he's an asshole.  I can easily
picture the Lakers bitching about a couple [non] calls, Javie being more
of a jerk about it than was necessary, and just like that LA is out of
their game.  Interestingly, I see the only technicals in the game
(except for illegal D) were against Utah.

And when I look at the box score from Game 1, I see the Lakers were
called for seven fewer fouls and shot 16 more free throws than Utah.
Again, I didn't see the game, so I don't know how these calls were set
in the flow of the action, but this sure wasn't what I expected to find
based on the level of dismay in this thread.  I'm not convinced by these
conspiracy theories, though I think the league wouldn't mind at all if
the Bulls won again.  jpyoung, in another posting, laid out most of the
arguments against the plausibility of such a conspiracy.  I can't add
much to what he/she said, but I do feel it's odd that fans who are so
convinced this league is rigged have anything more to do with it.  I
should take my time and money elsewhere.

I'm not at all a Laker fan but I do like good basketball, even the Bulls
but there are some problems with Stern.

D. Stern made it a conspiracy against the Sport when he told REFs to
"protect the superstars".  How can you have a fair game if Malone and
jordan are allowed to foul without penalty while if a Rookie does the same
thing, it's a foul and somethimes a Flagrant.  Remember when MJ hit Mark
Jackson in the back of the Head with the Basketball earlier this Year??
Can you remember the penalty he receved?  Now imagine if Mark Jackson had
done the same thing to Jordan or if Rodman had done it to anyone?  I can
guareentee you that whoever did it would have missed several games.
The Bottom line is there can be no fairness in sports until there is only
one set of rules that apply to everyone.  Larry Bird is right:  If Pippen
played for the Pacer and he guarded Jordan the way he Guards Jackson, he
would foul out before the half.   That's because there are two sets of
rules in place.  Note Jordan does nothing to deny that fact.  In Fact, he
encourages and looks foreward to them.

It started when D. Stern promoted making money over playing the game.  You
wonder why High School recruiting goes on and Shoe Contracts start as
early as the 8th grade.  You wonder why players leave college and High
School early and Garnett won't play for less than $120 Mill.  It's because
the league has placed making Money above the Game.  

When you watch a boxing match and the REF does everything to make sure one
person looks good, how often does that fail.  The REFs in basketball have
a lot of power.  Two quick fouls in the 1st 30 seconds of a game can place
Shaq on the bench until the 2nd quarter.  The game can be over by then.
The pt. is that the REFs have power.  Karl Malone has shown us that it
doesn't matter if he's fouled or not, he can still "Manufacture" points on
the charity stripe.

Now put yourself in D. Stern shoes.  You are the figure head of the NBA.
Your job is to make the league Money.  How do you do that??  Well, Jordan
is the most Recognized name in Basketball, he fill the arenas, people buy
his stuff.   Those two years he became Mr. Baseball, we didn't do too well
financially.  A sunday evening car drive preempted our most cherished game
one of that year.  Not to mention the sweep.   Do you let this man Retire
and leave the NBA forever??    No!!  This is a simple case of Supply and
Demand.  The Sheep has demanded Jordan so D. Stern must Supply.  How does
D. Stern Supply Jordan?  Well to make sure he doesn't retire, you gotta
keep his team together.  That means they must win it all so the Owner can
make the Coach the new GM/Coach and everybody's happy.

Next time you think about it, put yourself in D. Stern's place.  The on
Sat. ask yourself, why is it that Pippen is allowed to Bump, Mawl, and
rape Mark jackson like that.  Why is it that Stockton pushes the smaller
players into the Karl Malone Pick??  Why is it that everytime Shaq gets
the Ball underneath, he gets beaten senseless by an illegal double team
(listen to the Smacks on this one).  Why is it that Karl Malone and
MJordan "manufacture" points so easily when they are not even being
fouled?

It's all about $$$$$

--
Later

  Once the

Hmmm..There're very *few* people who know Shaq from his movies.

His movies are big, big flops in the box-office.
I just state the fact.

If there is a conspiracy, Utah is perfect.  In order to make more money in
the future it will be necessary to make the Smaller Markets bigger.  The
Lakers have already established a fan base back when Magic played.  Utah
has been a really good secret for years.   Making teams like Utah,
Minnesota,  Orlando, and San Antonio better has gotta be a priority.  (via
Draft or Playoffs)  Teams like the Clippers, Kings,  and the Nets can stay
in their situation becuase there is the Lakers, and Knicks.  The second
reason why Utah is perfect is because they have Home court advantage over
the Bulls.  On paper Utah looks really good.  There's Malone and Stockton
and home court advantage.  This is something that will make the sheep say,
"Da Bulls might lose this series" .  Any knowledgable fan knows that the
Bulls are more likely to beat the jazz than to beat the Lakers in a fairly
called finals.  For the most part, I believe that the Finals will be
called fairly.  That's simply because All Eyes will be tuned into the
Finals.

--
Later

I don't recall the exact text of Stern's statement.  Did he say "Protect
the superstars from getting fouled out," or "Protect the superstars
from getting injured"

I don't think we can use Rodman as a good example.  Rodman I believe
leads
the league in the double foul.  It seems almost every other time Rodman
is fouled by another player, the refs whistle a fould on Rodman.

It started the year after Conspiracy theorist's team won their last
title.  

It's called setting up an excuse for your team losing.  If they lose,
well then they were robbed.  If they win, the team is just that much
greater for overcoming the "fix"

Do you know how much trouble college basketball players get in when they
conspire to fix meaningless college basketball games (e.g. Northwestern
players earlier this year).  The federal government gets involved, and
there are severe penalties.  Gamblers, mafia, etc. can make a lot of
money
from knowing the outcome of the game, even the point difference.

Don't you think that if anyone seriously thought the results of the NBA
were fixed, that the federal government would get involved?  Or is the
federal government involved in a conspiracy to make NBA/C more money?
Are Janet Reno/ Bill Clinton closet Bulls fans?  Will this plot turn
up on the X-Files the week after they revisit the mutant hillbillies or
alien spores again?

Bob

        I just wanted to note that in general, it is pointless to try to
argue conspiracies with conspiracy theorists. Naturally, the very nature of
conspiracies are that they can grow to encoumpass anything. Anyone might be
part of the conspiracy and any documentation or contrary proof that people
offer to counter it may have been altered to protect the conspiracy. (I doubt
that this particular one has had enough time to grow to involve brainwashing
and murders for hire, but you never know. Taken in this light the deaths of
Reggie Lewis and Len Bias of Boston really are starting to look rather fishy.
Perhaps the NBA realized that Boston was a fading market and adjusted them
accordingly...)

        Conspiracy theories are only palatable as theater, hence the movie of
the same name; comedy and tragedy rolled into one. That's why I am so
interested in some full descriptions of this new conspiracy that I have
discovered. Write on Lakers fans. Give me some good laughs. By the was, you
guys definitely need to add CBS to all of your conspiracy lists. Just read
their incredibly biased column entitled "Lakers crying a river over rough
play". The _only_ way that they could _possibly_ print this _total_ pack of
_lies_ would be if ... THEY'RE IN ON IT. The text shows that Rick Fox may
also be an undercover agent. Be sure to watch his play carefully and remember
those two open shots that he bricked at the end of game 2.

        The one part of the Jazz and Lakers series that I can't understand is
why there is no support within the Lakers community inside rsbp for them to
come back to _win_ the series. I am no Lakers fan, but I think that their
odds aren't really that bad, regardless of the history. They have loads of
talent and could mature right before our eyes and beat the veteran Jazz.
However, all their fans in this newsgroup seem to have sold them down the
river after they went 0-2 in Utah. With fans like the ones in rsbp, who needs
hecklers. You might also want to read the column "Lakers hoping for more fan
support" also at Sportsline's site.

        -- J. P.

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/   Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

Diesel,
Yah, I guess there's an argument to be made for the desirability of Utah
as a foil for the Bulls, or for promoting small-market teams in general.
You have to wonder why it has taken the league so long to stumble on
this idea though.  The opinion I heard on the street was that if the
Lakers beat Utah they would have to be playing well enough to represent
a legitimate threat to the Bulls, so I don't think it would have been
hard to gin up interest in a Lakers/Bulls final.  Your argument seems to
be that the league wanted a phony threat, however, because it couldn't
chance fixing games in the finals.  To that I have no answer except
let's wait and see.  Maybe the Lakers still will come back against Utah,
perhaps with some home-court help from the refs.  And let's see whether
the officiating does turn out to be better in the finals.  I think there
are enough bad refs around to make that hope tenuous.

Also, for the poster who mentioned Shaq's movie flops: You're right, but
even a bomb will have earned him more name/face recognition than Malone
or Stockton enjoy, especially among kids and overseas.  Every little bit
helps, says the NBA marketer.

This station may be silent for a few days.  Long weekend, don't you
know.  Drive safely, all -- you too, Malone.

On Fri, 22 May 1998 jpyo...@io.com wrote:

        Says who?  Most have just been commenting on the terrible
officiating of Game 2.  This does not translate into lack of support.

        Being an avid Laker fan since I began following basketball,
I can tell you I have tremendous faith in the purple and gold.  I
wouldn't be all that surprised if they won or lost at this point though.
I just hope they make it a series.

Where the hell is your proof of this?  Were the two regular season
games that Utah won against the Bulls called fairly?  

No, his argument is the Lakers are losing, so he has to cry conspiracy
to make himself feel better.

Clearly the IRS is also intimately involved, targeting officials as
selected by Stern so as to manipulate which ones are still
available for games.

---
Toni Morgan             |
toni.mor...@min.ov.com  | "I'm not a basketball fan.  I only play.  It's only
Veritas Software        |  a job." - Shaquille O'Neal