[Duke-UNC] Random thoughts on the game
Geoffrey Green
Well, I have not much to say, except I'm not sure how Carolina has managed
to lose a game this year, and I wouldn't be shocked if they ran the table
the rest of the season. Check that, I would be shocked if they didn't win
the rest of their games.
This Carolina team is remarkably quick. They played that zone to
perfection; except for a few open shots in the first half, after some
quick passes by the Blue Devils, Carolina challenged everything. And when
any Blue Devils tried to drive, his man stayed right with him, and the
help defense not only helped stopped the drive, but managed to cut off the
passing lanes.
Jamieson is unbelievable; that stat at the end of the game, showing that
he held the ball for only 53 seconds, is some evidence of just how quick
he is. And the Tar Heels never had trouble getting the ball inside, and
once they did the Duke players seemed so concerned with the extra pass
that Carolina ate them up one-on-one.
Along with their team quickness, the Tar Heels have great team "ups" (if
that's a phrase). Incredible.
Well, it's now settled which team is the class of the ACC. The saving
graces of this game/experience for Duke fans is that 1) it's a learning
experience, getting destroyed like that, and Duke now knows where it has
to improve; 2) it's only one game!; and 3) hopefully, the bit of
showboating Carolina did at the end of the game will come back to haunt
them.
Anyway, if anyone on the UNC basketball team reads this, congratulations
on a great win. See you Feb. 28!
(How _did_ they lose to Maryland, anyway? Were they not focused, or something?)
- geoff
---
Geoffrey Green
NYU Law '98
http://pages/nyu.edu/~gfg0877/
Donnie Barnes
>Well, I have not much to say, except I'm not sure how Carolina has managed
>to lose a game this year, and I wouldn't be shocked if they ran the table
>the rest of the season. Check that, I would be shocked if they didn't win
>the rest of their games.
Nah, they'll drop one more this season (or perhaps one in the ACC
tourney). No prediction on the NCAA tourney from me.
>Jamieson is unbelievable; that stat at the end of the game, showing that
>he held the ball for only 53 seconds, is some evidence of just how quick
>he is. And the Tar Heels never had trouble getting the ball inside, and
>once they did the Duke players seemed so concerned with the extra pass
>that Carolina ate them up one-on-one.
Wow...53 seconds of touch and 35 points. Amazing. How about that coast
to coast without the ball touching the floor, though? That was pretty
amazing, too.
>Along with their team quickness, the Tar Heels have great team "ups" (if
>that's a phrase). Incredible.
They do get up well.
>Well, it's now settled which team is the class of the ACC. The saving
No, I still think we'll only see that when the final ACC game is played
in the regular season (I'm with Dean...the best team is the team with
the best record in *way* more cases than the team that wins the ACC
tourney).
>graces of this game/experience for Duke fans is that 1) it's a learning
>experience, getting destroyed like that, and Duke now knows where it has
>to improve; 2) it's only one game!; and 3) hopefully, the bit of
>showboating Carolina did at the end of the game will come back to haunt
>them.
They will learn from it. As for the "only one game" part, it's an
interesting comment. Coach K has been quoted saying that it took
him eight years or so in the league before he learned something
that Dean knew "all along" and that is that while these games are
big, they are just one game. Then after tonight's game he said
that he thought his team played too much of this game *before*
this game ever started. Interesting.
I'm not sure they did much "showboating at the end"...they did hold
the ball most of the shot clock and just got some nice plays off the
dribble to seal it up. Now, had Newby made that steal on Wojo and
dunked it at the buzzer, well.... :-)
>(How _did_ they lose to Maryland, anyway? Were they not focused, or something?)
No, they just didn't play well and Maryland played a really good game
and kicked their collective butts. Maryland also had one thing Duke
doesn't have, and that's plenty of muscle to wear Jamison out.
--Donnie
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Irvinraw13
>They will learn from it. As for the "only one game" part, it's an
>interesting comment. Coach K has been quoted saying that it >took
>him eight years or so in the league before he learned something
>that Dean knew "all along" and that is that while these games are
>big, they are just one game. Then after tonight's game he said
>that he thought his team played too much of this game *before*
>this game ever started. Interesting.
K is a great coach. I liked his strategy in the second half-- pound the ball
inside. But the Dukies shot themselves in the foot because of the quick shots.
If they tried a little harder to find good shots instead of just shooting,
they may have completed the comeback.
Jamison and Carter had great games, but I would have to give the game balls out
to Williams and Cota. Jamison and Carter had so many easy shots because of the
duo.
Geoffrey Green
>I'm not sure they did much "showboating at the end"...they did hold
>the ball most of the shot clock and just got some nice plays off the
>dribble to seal it up. Now, had Newby made that steal on Wojo and
>dunked it at the buzzer, well.... :-)
Well, up by 20, I didn't think the old "alley-oop off the backboard" trick
was really necessary during a 3-on-1 break.
IMHO, of course.
Michael McCoy
Geoffrey Green wrote:
> (How _did_ they lose to Maryland, anyway? Were they not focused, or something?)
Precisely. In the middle of the second half in that game they came down the court
at least 5 times with the chance to push the lead up to 8 points and failed to get
the job done every time.--
Michael McCoy
mmck...@imsnet.net
---------------------------------------
All views expressed are my own and do not represent the views of any organization
that I'm aware of.
---------------------------------------
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---------------------------------------
Ted Krueger
In article <gfg0877-0602...@e60-115.datanet.nyu.edu>,
Geoffrey Green <gfg...@is4.nyu.edu> wrote:
>Check that, I would be shocked if they didn't win
>the rest of their games.
Even at Duke???
>Jamieson is unbelievable; that stat at the end of the game, showing that
>he held the ball for only 53 seconds, is some evidence of just how quick
>he is.
He is great, but that stat shows no such thing. What it shows is that
the vast majority of UNC offensive plays are designed to get Jamison
his shots. What that implies is that he does not have a surpassing
ability to create his own shots. (He may have this ability, but the
UNC gameplan did not show it.)
>Anyway, if anyone on the UNC basketball team reads this, congratulations
>on a great win. See you Feb. 28!
>(How _did_ they lose to Maryland, anyway? Were they not focused, or something?)
This reminds us of the "On any given night..." quality of sports.
UNC played a poor game against Maryland. Duke played a poor game
against UNC. It happens.
Ted
--
So you don't believe in media bias, eh? "In the aftermath of today's 500 point
loss in the Dow Jones, Bill Gates lost 1.76 billion dollars...If that makes you
feel any better." - Peter Jennings, World News Tonight, 10/27/97
kru...@neta.com
Donnie Barnes
>>I'm not sure they did much "showboating at the end"...they did hold
>>the ball most of the shot clock and just got some nice plays off the
>>dribble to seal it up. Now, had Newby made that steal on Wojo and
>>dunked it at the buzzer, well.... :-)
>
>Well, up by 20, I didn't think the old "alley-oop off the backboard" trick
>was really necessary during a 3-on-1 break.
Had the game been a 20 point blowout for the last ten minutes or so I
would agree...but at the pace the game had been going for the last two
minutes I don't really blame them. They had to know they were pulling
away, but for all they knew it still wasn't out of hand...
Thai Ton
In article <6bfb23$fdg$1...@trojan.neta.com>, kru...@trojan.neta.com says...
>
>In article <gfg0877-0602...@e60-115.datanet.nyu.edu>,
>Geoffrey Green <gfg...@is4.nyu.edu> wrote:
>
>>Check that, I would be shocked if they didn't win
>>the rest of their games.
>
>Even at Duke???
>
>>Jamieson is unbelievable; that stat at the end of the game, showing that
>>he held the ball for only 53 seconds, is some evidence of just how quick
>>he is.
>
>He is great, but that stat shows no such thing. What it shows is that
>the vast majority of UNC offensive plays are designed to get Jamison
>his shots. What that implies is that he does not have a surpassing
>ability to create his own shots. (He may have this ability, but the
>UNC gameplan did not show it.)
>
WRONG. You are mistaking his quickness with his ability to create his
own shots. What you are saying is that if joe shmoe PG throws the ball
in, then the guy who stands there, dribbles, fakes, do a little dance,
he's got the ability to create his own shot. But for Jamison, joe shmoe
PG throws the ball in and instead of doing the above, he turns to the
basket, shoots, and scores. (max of 8.9 seconds to whatever it takes to
catch, turn, and shoot in one motion).
And if you were watching the same game, you would've seen that Jamison
drove the lane in this game several times and scored. That is creating
your own shot...IMO.
--
* Do not send advertising material to this address. I don't have any money. *
Thai Ton
In article <gfg0877-0602...@e60-115.datanet.nyu.edu>,
gfg...@is4.nyu.edu says...
>>the ball most of the shot clock and just got some nice plays off the
>>dribble to seal it up. Now, had Newby made that steal on Wojo and
>>dunked it at the buzzer, well.... :-)
>
>Well, up by 20, I didn't think the old "alley-oop off the backboard" trick
>was really necessary during a 3-on-1 break.
>
>
>
Ask yourself if the roles were reversed, would the Dukies *not* attempt
the same thing?.. It's only showboating if the opposing team wouldn't
do the same thing in the same circumstances, and IMO, Duke would've and
should do the same thing. It's a game.
Ted Krueger
In article <6bfsd9$e...@sf18.dseg.ti.com>, Thai Ton <t-t...@ti.com> wrote:
>In article <6bfb23$fdg$1...@trojan.neta.com>, kru...@trojan.neta.com says...
>>He is great, but that stat shows no such thing. What it shows is that
>>the vast majority of UNC offensive plays are designed to get Jamison
>>his shots. What that implies is that he does not have a surpassing
>>ability to create his own shots. (He may have this ability, but the
>>UNC gameplan did not show it.)
>WRONG. You are mistaking his quickness with his ability to create his
>own shots. What you are saying is that if joe shmoe PG throws the ball
>in, then the guy who stands there, dribbles, fakes, do a little dance,
>he's got the ability to create his own shot. But for Jamison, joe shmoe
>PG throws the ball in and instead of doing the above, he turns to the
>basket, shoots, and scores. (max of 8.9 seconds to whatever it takes to
>catch, turn, and shoot in one motion).
Settle down. I'm not a Dook fan. ;)
Let's do the math: 53 seconds/20 shots = 1 shot every 2.65 seconds.
Not much time for creating your own shot.
>And if you were watching the same game, you would've seen that Jamison
>drove the lane in this game several times and scored. That is creating
>your own shot...IMO.
I was watching the same game (though I missed parts of the first half
watching the Arizona game). How many times out of that 20 did he
create his own shot? I would guess 5. I further guess that he only
scored on 2 or 3 of those.
Don't get me wrong, if you will re-read what I wrote above, you will
notice that I specifically said I was not claiming that Jamison does
not have the ability, just that the UNC game plan did not take
advantage of it.
Rob Mac K
In article <6bfs5d$e...@sf18.dseg.ti.com>, t-t...@ti.com says...
Well, if you act like you're going to run out the clock, and then the
other team backs off, whereupon you decide to drive and dish for a dunk,
that's showboating. If on the next play, the other team is holding the
ball out to run out the clock, and you get up on him to hound him into
a turnover, that's showboating. The decline in class over at UNC in the
last ten years is something else.
- Rob Mac K
--
*** Rob Mac K **** ]}uke Blue Devils - NCAA Champs 1991, 1992 ***
*** Duke '93 ******* http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/1861 ***
*** bludevil(@)worldnet.att.net *** PGP Key Available Via WWW ***
"Oh my God, they killed Kenny! You BASTARDS!!!"
Joel Zeeman
> Well, if you act like you're going to run out the clock, and then the
> other team backs off, whereupon you decide to drive and dish for a dunk,
> that's showboating. If on the next play, the other team is holding the
> ball out to run out the clock, and you get up on him to hound him into
> a turnover, that's showboating. The decline in class over at UNC in the
> last ten years is something else.
A common Dookie whine. I'm sure that up until 10 years ago, you made a habit of
extolling the class "over at UNC".
If I'm Max Owens fresh off the bench and I have a chance to steal the ball from
the magnificent Wojo, I'm gonna try and I don't give a crap what the score is.
If I have a chance to dunk the ball on national TV with the crowd already going
crazy, I'm gonna try and I don't give a crap what the score is. So would you.
Rob Mac K
In article <34DBD218...@nospam.com>, zm...@nospam.com says...
> > Well, if you act like you're going to run out the clock, and then the
> > other team backs off, whereupon you decide to drive and dish for a dunk,
> > that's showboating. If on the next play, the other team is holding the
> > ball out to run out the clock, and you get up on him to hound him into
> > a turnover, that's showboating. The decline in class over at UNC in the
> > last ten years is something else.
>
> A common Dookie whine. I'm sure that up until 10 years ago, you made a habit of
> extolling the class "over at UNC".
>
> If I'm Max Owens fresh off the bench and I have a chance to steal the ball from
> the magnificent Wojo, I'm gonna try and I don't give a crap what the score is.
And if you're Ademola Okulaja, who's played practically the entire game,
do you? Since that's who I was actually talking about...
But if you're happy with just being a basketball factory, so be it.
Rob Mac K
In article <19980207032...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
irvin...@aol.com says...
> >Well, if you act like you're going to run out the clock, and then >the
> >other team backs off, whereupon you decide to drive and dish >for a dunk,
> >that's showboating. If on the next play, the other team is holding >the
> >ball out to run out the clock, and you get up on him to hound him >into
> >a turnover, that's showboating. The decline in class over at UNC >in the
> >last ten years is something else.
>
Interesting definition of everything you've got there. I guess over at
UNC, showboating and trash talking *is* everything. I weep for the
future.
Shawn Spence
>>Well, up by 20, I didn't think the old "alley-oop off the backboard" trick
>>was really necessary during a 3-on-1 break.
>
>would agree...but at the pace the game had been going for the last two
>minutes I don't really blame them. They had to know they were pulling
>away, but for all they knew it still wasn't out of hand...
It was over, over, over. Otherwise, they never try that stuff. I was
watching thisin the local Damon's. And the people in there were going
nuts, even though they missed it. If Carter had finished, that place (and
the Damon's) would have gone completely bananas. That would have been one
of the best plays in this decade. Cota threw it hardoff the glassfromat
least 6 feet away, to Carter who was also several feet away.
They're kids having fun, let them. They won the biggest game oftheir
season convincingly, and were just having a little on-court celebration.
Big deal.
>
>
>--Donnie
>
>--
> Donnie Barnes http://www.redhat.com/~djb d...@redhat.com "Bah."
> Challenge Diversity. Ignore People. Live Life. Use Linux. 879.
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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>** I don't want a flannel shirt for Christmas.
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Irvinraw13
>Well, if you act like you're going to run out the clock, and then >the
>other team backs off, whereupon you decide to drive and dish >for a dunk,
>that's showboating. If on the next play, the other team is holding >the
>ball out to run out the clock, and you get up on him to hound him >into
>a turnover, that's showboating. The decline in class over at UNC >in the
>last ten years is something else.
Damn Rob! Just because your team lossed, do you have to cry about everything?
You make fun of Rasheed (Washeed), then you go and become a crybaby yourself.
I wonder how you would act on the court if you were good enough to play for
Duke. Like a perfect gentleman-- yeah right!
Irvinraw13
>Damn Rob! Just because your team lossed, do you have to cry >about
everything?
>You make fun of Rasheed (Washeed), then you go and become >a crybaby yourself.
>I wonder how you would act on the court if you were good >enough to play for
>Duke. Like a perfect gentleman-- yeah right!
Meant just because your team loss
Chip V.
blud...@REMOVE.THIS.worldnet.att.net (Rob Mac K) wrote:
<snipyadayada>
>I weep for the future.
Since it's a "random" thread, I have a random question: Was this a
line from "Ferris Bueller's Day Off?" You've used this line now a few
times, and it's been buggin' me as to whether it was from "Ferris" or
from "Breakfast Club" -- or both (?)...
Important, hoops-related info needed here... ;)
- Chip `~
NOTE: Remove "x" for correct e-mail and reply-to addresses.
- Keep up with all Atlanta-area activities sponsored by the Atlanta
Chapters of the UNC Educational Foundation and Carolina Club.
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Irvinraw13
>Interesting definition of everything you've got there. I guess >over at
>future.
>- Rob Mac K
Are you talking about 2/28?
Irvinraw13
>> Damn Rob! Just because your team loss, do you have to cry >>about
everything?
<snip>
> I weep for the
>future.
>- Rob Mac K
I guess you do cry a lot.
Wretch
Rob Mac K wrote:
>
> Well, if you act like you're going to run out the clock, and then the
> other team backs off, whereupon you decide to drive and dish for a dunk,
> that's showboating. If on the next play, the other team is holding the
> ball out to run out the clock, and you get up on him to hound him into
> a turnover, that's showboating. The decline in class over at UNC in the
> last ten years is something else.
>
No, that's good, feisty basketball against a team that deserved a
serious smacking, a squad that dared to beat Arizona when the
Cats weren't playing well. I don't find that very sporting at
all, to take advantage of a slumping Arizona team. If the lads from
Duke were truly righteous characters ("classy," that is), they would've
suggested to the referees that the game be interrupted when the
outcome was clear and offered a rematch to the superior Cats at a
later date. Consisting of not one chap of kindly moral fibre,
Duke offered no such goodwill gesture.
Because of that loss, some clucks are likely to accuse Arizona of being
lucky last year.
AC
Parkerx
How very witty you are. A little English public school mixed with the
Southwestern U.S.That subtle chip on your shoulder just won't let go,
hey.Get over it. You won on a hot streak last year, and if your team
peaks at the right time again, you might do it this year.But if you
really wan't to find some good insults for us (KU), get hold of some MU
fans. "Clucks" is like Neil Seadacka to Marilyn Manson, compared to
some of the stuff they throw at us.
Parkerx
Kevin Denelsbeck
Ted, you have an interesting idea of what it means to create your own
shot. The strong impression I get from reading your posts is that
it's the ability to shake free from your man and get a makeable shot,
something that is usually associated with guards beating defenders off
the dribble.
Why can't post players be credited with "creating their own shots" if,
through use of drop-steps, baseline fadeaways, or (in Jamison's case)
sheer quickness and hops, they can negate/evade the defensive effort?
It's not something everyone can do, and the shots tend to be higher
percentage if the shot is actually gotten off. What kind of shot are
you looking for Jamison to create?
With all that, I don't think the "35 points in 53 seconds" is anything
to get too excited about. I think if more post-players' "elapsed
times" were measured we'd see similar numbers. Perhaps not as
efficient as Jamison's, but same order of magnitude.
Kevin
--
Kev @ UNC & Hope College _|_ "Every social war is a battle between the very
denelsbeATcsDOTuncDOTedu | few on both sides who care and who fire their
www.cs.unc.edu/~denelsbe | shots across a crowd of spectators.'
GO HEELS! /"\ -- Murray Kempton, on flame wars? (1955)
Chip V.
dene...@cs.unc.edu (Kevin Denelsbeck) wrote:
>Ted, you have an interesting idea of what it means to create your own
>shot. The strong impression I get from reading your posts is that
>it's the ability to shake free from your man and get a makeable shot,
>something that is usually associated with guards beating defenders off
>the dribble.
Amen -- I've been stewing on this one for a long time...
>Why can't post players be credited with "creating their own shots" if,
>through use of drop-steps, baseline fadeaways, or (in Jamison's case)
>sheer quickness and hops, they can negate/evade the defensive effort?
>It's not something everyone can do, and the shots tend to be higher
>percentage if the shot is actually gotten off. What kind of shot are
>you looking for Jamison to create?
This is always mentioned as a reason why Jamison (or Carter) are
supposedly not good NBA prospects. If taking a defender off the
dribble is all there is, why do tall guys even get drafted? Why do
the wonderful quick guards ever pass the ball? Admittedly, I don't
watch the NBA anymore because it does not even closely resemble
basketball, but is the grand old game that far gone at the proverbial
next level? On NBA highlights shown on "Sportscenter," I still see a
lot of passes by guards into the low blocks where players create their
shots -- and it looks quite a lot like what Antawn and Vince do (only,
most of the time the NBA guys don't look as quick as Jamison)...
>With all that, I don't think the "35 points in 53 seconds" is anything
>to get too excited about. I think if more post-players' "elapsed
>times" were measured we'd see similar numbers. Perhaps not as
>efficient as Jamison's, but same order of magnitude.
I honestly laughed when I saw this "Vitale Graphic" as well. Plus, a
big "assist" goes to Cota for getting him the ball in some pretty good
position on a lot of those shots, but Jamison made some great drop
step moves as weill (the tough catch/fake and wrap-around dunk over
the front of the rim late in the game comes to mind)...
Just $.02... :)
Awrobinson
From: blud...@REMOVE.THIS.worldnet.att.net (Rob Mac K)
>Well, if you act like you're going to run out the clock, and then the
>other team backs off, whereupon you decide to drive and dish for a dunk,
>that's showboating. If on the next play, the other team is holding the
>ball out to run out the clock, and you get up on him to hound him into
>a turnover, that's showboating. The decline in class over at UNC in the
>last ten years is something else.
If that had been the case, perhaps. But what happened is Cota dribbled to run
down the clock UNTIL HE WAS CHALLENGED and then he drove to the basket. This
happened on two possessions in a row. Plus Dook had not quit, they were still
trying to score. The Heels tried this earlier against Virginia and nearly paid
for it. Explain to me the lack of class in trying to win the game.
Andrew Robinson
Andrew Robinson
---
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine alone and do not represent the
views of America Online
Rob Mac K
In article <6bgpa2$i...@camel20.mindspring.com>, xcc...@mindspring.com
says...
>
> line from "Ferris Bueller's Day Off?" You've used this line now a few
> times, and it's been buggin' me as to whether it was from "Ferris" or
> from "Breakfast Club" -- or both (?)...
Geez, I'm not sure. I don't *think* it's from Ferris Bueller (tho' it
does kinda sound like something Mr. Rooney would say, doesn't it?), and
I don't remember it being in the Breakfast Club, either. I guess it's
another one of those little bits of pop wisdom I picked up so long ago
that I can't remember exactly where I did pick it up (kinda like "Jane,
you ignorant slut!" :)
Has the Jazzy J 4.1 Movie Trivia Module been installed yet?
Jonathan S. Serody
>
> UNC played a poor game against Maryland. Duke played a poor game
> against UNC. It happens.
>
I think you are underestimating the matchups here. Duke has no one
inside who can stop Jamison and is loathe to go to a pack it in zone to
take him out of the game. The Duke defense which is to put a lot of
pressure on the perimeter and prevent the entry pass into the post
doesn't work against Cota and Williams. And without Brand this is the
same basic team that shot 17-34 from three and still got beat last
year.
On the other side, MD has exactly what has caused problems for UNC all
year a big physical inside presence. UNC has had real problems stopping
good centers this year see Brad Miller, Ekezie. I would expect another
good game by MD at UNC because of this matchup situation. Finally,
granted Duke could have used better shot selection but until they figure
out how to stop Jamison who is averaging 34 ppg in the last two matchups
it may all be for naught.
Rob Mac K
In article <19980207164...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
awrob...@aol.com says...
> From: blud...@REMOVE.THIS.worldnet.att.net (Rob Mac K)
>
> >Well, if you act like you're going to run out the clock, and then the
> >other team backs off, whereupon you decide to drive and dish for a dunk,
> >that's showboating. If on the next play, the other team is holding the
> >ball out to run out the clock, and you get up on him to hound him into
> >a turnover, that's showboating. The decline in class over at UNC in the
> >last ten years is something else.
>
> If that had been the case, perhaps. But what happened is Cota dribbled to run
> down the clock UNTIL HE WAS CHALLENGED and then he drove to the basket. This
Wrong.
> happened on two possessions in a row. Plus Dook had not quit, they were still
> trying to score. The Heels tried this earlier against Virginia and nearly paid
Wrong again.
> for it. Explain to me the lack of class in trying to win the game.
Try watching the same game as the rest of us. No use trying to discuss
it with you since you obviously didn't watch the game.
Brian Barbarash
Rob Mac K (blud...@REMOVE.THIS.worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: In article <6bgpa2$i...@camel20.mindspring.com>, xcc...@mindspring.com
: > blud...@REMOVE.THIS.worldnet.att.net (Rob Mac K) wrote:
: >
: > <snipyadayada>
: >
: > >I weep for the future.
[stuff snipped]
It IS from Ferris Bueller's Day Off. The snooty (snotty) guy at the
restaurant said it when he went off to search for another phone.
Just wanted to clear that up.
-Brian
Rob Mac K
In article <34e0ee51...@news.mindspring.com>, msd...@hotmail.com
says...
> irvin...@aol.com (Irvinraw13) wrote:
>
> :Damn Rob! Just because your team lossed, do you have to cry about everything?
> :You make fun of Rasheed (Washeed), then you go and become a crybaby yourself.
> :Duke. Like a perfect gentleman-- yeah right!
>
> Duke/GT game in which Bobby Hurley ran into a Malcolm Mackey pick that
> nearly knocked Hurley out. Rob, naturally, vilified Mackey as a thug who
> was trying to injure Hurley. That's to be expected. What I didn't expect
> was for Rob to tell me that if I had done that to him on the playground
> he'd have taken my head off with an elbow. Some gentleman, eh?
For a writer of fiction, you're not very talented.
Matthew J. Norris
In article <34e0ee51...@news.mindspring.com>,
msd...@hotmail.com (Mike D) wrote:
>Hee Hee! One of the first exchanges I had with Zippy occurred after a
>Duke/GT game in which Bobby Hurley ran into a Malcolm Mackey pick that
>nearly knocked Hurley out. Rob, naturally, vilified Mackey as a thug who
>was trying to injure Hurley. That's to be expected. What I didn't expect
>was for Rob to tell me that if I had done that to him on the playground
>he'd have taken my head off with an elbow. Some gentleman, eh?
>
Oh, come on, Mike! Can't you stop posting this kind of drivel and use
your time here to make a more lasting contribution?
--
Matt
Billy Bob
Rob Mac K wrote:
>
> But if you're happy with just being a basketball factory, so be it.
>
> - Rob Mac K
Oh pleeeeez, spare me. Duke folks really do make me chuckle w/ their attempts at
painting Carolina as some classless bball factory while Duke fans and program are
held up as a model for everyone else. I've seen both schools and programs up
close and can tell you better.
I live in the Triangle and have attended both schools, having graduate degrees
from both (I attended undergrad in another state at a non-ACC school, so my
initial allegiences are with neither program nor w/ the ACC.) For those
techno-geeks who think I'm bullshitting you, take a look at where I'm logging in
from (yup, thats acpub.duke.edu).
I've attended games regularly in Carmicheal and the Dean Dome and also in
Cameron. I had access to season tickets at Cameron from 85-95. I've seen the
Duke/Carolina game more than once in both Cameron, Carmichael and the Dean Dome.
I am married into a Duke family, and my father-in-law taught at Duke for many
years. I met my wife at Duke. I love both schools and feel really lucky to be
living in the middle of the greatest rivalry in sports, period. OK, hopefully
thats enough qualification for what I'm about to say.
My impressions:
1) Both schools are great academic institutions. The best undergrad students at
Carolina are as bright as the best students at Duke. (Carolina actually graduates
more rhodes and marshall scholars than Duke - go look it up). The diference
between the two is that almost all the the students at Duke are very bright
(however, they do the good-ol boy preferential admission thing as well as
anybody, while at Carolina, since its a State school with a mandate to serve the
State, the bottom of Carolina isnt as good as the bottom of Duke. At the graduate
level its a toss-up.
2) Both Schools have great bball programs, clearly the two best in the country,
and the ACC is the best conference on a year in-year out basis.
3) Carolina basketball is hated and feared by all opposing ACC fans, much more
than Duke is, because Carolina has been so good for so long, much more so than
Duke on a much more consistent basis (as a most recent example, has the UNC
program ever had a year in the last 30 like the last couple years Duke has had?).
Its the same way all thru the league. Ask your basic ACC fan who they really root
AGAINST, and they'll tell you its UNC, not Duke.
4) Duke fans especially, get almost apoplectic about Carolina, because, deep down
inside, they still harbor an inferiority complex from getting whipped by Carolina
for so many years. Just as it was a bitter pill for Carolina fans to watch Duke
go back to back, Duke found it intolerable to see Carolina regroup and win the
national championship in 93 and then again dominate the series w/ Duke since
then. After 92, Duke thought they had surpassed Carolina, only to see the Heels
come back stronger than ever.
5) Carolina fans, at least throught the late 80s, were complacent and felt
entitled to their success; once Duke came up to their level in the late 80s, they
felt offended and then really threatened. Dukes rising academic reputation just
compounded the problem, because Carolina has traditionally prided itself on being
a great academic institution (a "public ivy.") Carolina fans see Duke as the one
impediment to their program and the general reputation of their school, and they
find it especially galling because Duke is so close geographically, and because
Duke is so well-respected academically.
6) As a general rule (remember, there are exceptions to every rule), Carolinas
bball program under Smith acted with class unmatched by any other program,
including Duke's. One incident really sticks out in my mind as highlighting the
differences between the two programs: in 1991, when Duke won their first
championship, both Duke and Carolina were in the Final Four. After Duke won to
advance to the final and Kansas beat UNC to do the same, the local news ran
interviews w/ Micki K (Coach K's wife) and Deans wife. First came Mrs. Smith, who
expressed her dissappointment w/ the loss but wished fellow ACC member Duke good
luck and expressed best wishes for their success in the final; then a cut to Mrs.
K, who expressed her joy at going to the final four...and her equal pleasure in
knowing Carolina had lost. I lost alot of respect for Duke's program that night.
7) Duke's student fans are the most obnoxious and classless of any program i've
ever witnessed. They are an embarrassment to a great program and a great
university. They get away with it in the media because they are often clever when
doing it, but they are, at bottom, incredibly tactless and completely lacking in
class. Its absurd that the regulars on this group have allowed the Duke partisans
here to somehow lay claim to the moral high ground.
8) Carolina's fans learned from Duke's example. They sat for years politely
clapping and refraining from waving during foul shots as Dean Smith requested,
while watching Duke students at Cameron scream obscenities and throw things at
their players all seemingly with the approval of Coach K. In spite of Dean's
dissaproval, they have gradually adopted the bad manners of Duke fans. Now
that Dean is gone, the flodgates are opened. Its a shame really.
Well thats my 3 cents. Let the flame wars begin!
Awrobinson
>it with you since you obviously didn't watch the game.
I watched the Caroina - Dook game Thursday night. Which game were you watching?
Rob Mac K
In article <19980208224...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
awrob...@aol.com says...
> From: blud...@REMOVE.THIS.worldnet.att.net (Rob Mac K)
> >
> >Try watching the same game as the rest of us. No use trying to discuss
> >it with you since you obviously didn't watch the game.
>
> I watched the Caroina - Dook game Thursday night. Which game were you watching?
UNC-Duke. I don't know who those teams you were watching were. Then
again, I've never seen those teams playing in the UNC-Georgia TEch game
before today, either.
Rob Mac K
In article <34e52e9c...@news.mindspring.com>, msd...@hotmail.com
says...
> Matthew J. Norris <mjno...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> :In article <34e0ee51...@news.mindspring.com>,
Liar liar liar. Can you produce *any* proof of this ludicrous assertion?
I thought not.
> was still king of college basketball and because of that, Rob was the most
> obnoxious twit you've ever seen. Don't lecture me about drivel. Drivel is
> Rob's middle name, has been for years. He may write that goofy
> predictions thing now, but he still spends most of his time trashing
> everything UNC. I know people that have never even read this idiotic group
If it's so idiotic, why are you reading it? Or, should I ask, how come
you only read it right after UNC beats Duke?
> who know Rob by his reputation. That's NOT a compliment, either.
Sure, after being exposed to your lies, how could they know any better?
If the fact that people who listen to you trash me have a poor opinion of
me actually supposed to *prove* anything, other than that you really need
to chill out on this whole thing?
> Recently, Rob contributions have consisted of:
[deleted]
> calling someone a liar
Would that be you? Good call on my part, then.
Chip V.
hypo...@wam.umd.edu (Brian Barbarash) wrote:
>[stuff snipped]
THAT'S IT!!! Thanks, now I'll get some sleep tonight... :)
>Just wanted to clear that up.
As the Bud Light commercial sayeth: "You da MAN!!!" ;)
Geoffrey Green
>8) Carolina's fans learned from Duke's example. They sat for years politely
>clapping and refraining from waving during foul shots as Dean Smith requested,
>while watching Duke students at Cameron scream obscenities and throw things at
>their players all seemingly with the approval of Coach K. In spite of Dean's
>dissaproval, they have gradually adopted the bad manners of Duke fans. Now
>that Dean is gone, the flodgates are opened. Its a shame really.
After a game at Cameron has started, name *one* time at which any fan
threw anything onto the floor. When I went there, and to the best of my
knowledge before and after, no one *ever* threw *anything* on to the floor
during the game.
During pregame introductions, of course...
(Hell, in the 1990's, there have been more things thrown *into* the crowd
and Cameron than onto the court. I refer, of course, to Randolph
Childress' chucking the ball into the stands after a Wake victory.)
Having been a student, also, rarely if ever did students scream
obscenities at other players. "Sucks" is used semi-frequently, but that's
not really an obscenity. The referees get more obscenities thrown at them
than the players; persoanlly, I've never cursed at a player, but I have
yelled obscenities ("that was the f**king worst call I've ever seen") at
those f**king incompetent refs.
- geoff
---
Geoffrey Green
NYU Law '98
http://pages/nyu.edu/~gfg0877/
George W. Harris
In Sun, 08 Feb 1998 12:45:42 -0500 of yore, Billy Bob <no...@asm.org> wrote
thusly:
=Oh pleeeeez, spare me. Duke folks really do make me chuckle w/ their attempts
at
=painting Carolina as some classless bball factory while Duke fans and program
are
=held up as a model for everyone else. I've seen both schools and programs up
=close and can tell you better.
=
=I live in the Triangle and have attended both schools, having graduate
degrees
=from both (I attended undergrad in another state at a non-ACC school, so my
=initial allegiences are with neither program nor w/ the ACC.) For those
=techno-geeks who think I'm bullshitting you, take a look at where I'm logging
in
=from (yup, thats acpub.duke.edu).
Ooh, credentials, like we care.
=
=I've attended games regularly in Carmicheal and the Dean Dome and also in
=Cameron. I had access to season tickets at Cameron from 85-95. I've seen the
=Duke/Carolina game more than once in both Cameron, Carmichael and the Dean
Dome.
More credentials. Yawn.
=I am married into a Duke family, and my father-in-law taught at Duke for many
=years. I met my wife at Duke. I love both schools and feel really lucky to be
=living in the middle of the greatest rivalry in sports, period. OK, hopefully
=thats enough qualification for what I'm about to say.
Oh, you're still here?
You've gotten this far, and you *still* haven't said
anything. Face it, bucko, you're *never* gonna be a
newspaperman.
--
Real men don't need macho posturing to bolster their egos.
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'.
Donnie Barnes
> You've gotten this far, and you *still* haven't said
>anything. Face it, bucko, you're *never* gonna be a
>newspaperman.
You ignorant sonofabitch! He WILL be a newspaperman. Well, a
newspaperdeliveryman, anyway.
nic...@mailexcite.com
Have you ever heard of the exppression, The High Hand?
It's an expression I heard in the old westerns I watched as a kid.
It refered to one gunslinger having a mental advantage over another.
In todays' jargon you would say one gunslinger had gotten into the other
gunslinger's head. Intimination.
I'm a Duke fan, but it obvious Carolina for some time has had The High
Hand over Duke. I hope Duke breaks that hold later in the month!
BTW, in the old westerns the gunslinger usually killed the one with The
High Hand at the end of the movie.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
WILLIAM GAY
Rob Mac K <blud...@REMOVE.THIS.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>xcc...@mindspring.com says...
>> blud...@REMOVE.THIS.worldnet.att.net (Rob Mac K) wrote:
>>
>> >I weep for the future.
>> Since it's a "random" thread, I have a random question: Was this a
>> line from "Ferris Bueller's Day Off?" You've used this line now a few
>Geez, I'm not sure. I don't *think* it's from Ferris Bueller (tho' it
>does kinda sound like something Mr. Rooney would say, doesn't it?)
It was the Maiter Di (sp?) from Ferris Bueller, who offered it
as a parting shot before scurrying off to answer the phone
after Ferris threatened to yell "rat".
-Will
WILLIAM GAY
Geoffrey Green <gfg...@is4.nyu.edu> wrote:
>When I went there, and to the best of my knowledge before and after,
>no one *ever* threw *anything* on to the floor during the game.
Totally correct in my tenure as well. Tennis balls were thrown
back and forth between the two sidecourt student section and
occasionally hit the floor (to be scarfed up by the ball "persons" -
"Kill the kid! Kill the kid!") before warmups, occasionally at
the tuba I guess. Nobody ever tried to peg a player if they
threw it during warmups, though I guess it could have happened.
By '92 that was mostly ended by the nazi crowd control folks.
>Having been a student, also, rarely if ever did students scream
>obscenities at other players.
Well, to the best of my memory here are the worst things done
by Duke student fans in Cameron:
1) Chanted "sluts" at the UNC cheerleaders. Obviously not the
whole gymnasium, but apparently a group of students large
enough to be heard. A shame.
2) "King Rice, he sucks, he really really sucks". Not horrible,
and he got his revenge by playing very well.
3) "State school, private school...". I hate this cheer.
4) "Chucky can't count" - after he entered lane on first shot
of a 2-shout foul.
5) "You suck dick" at Paparo.
6) "The ref beats his wife" general ref hazing
7) "asshole"
8) ?
Basically, aside from a few unfortunate incidents like the
JR Reid SAT thing and the UNC cheerleaders and probably
one or two other things, the Crazies haven't done anything
worth getting excited about, certainly nothing horrible like
"PLO! PLO!" directed at Kerr, or "You Dad hates you!" from
the 6th Man at Stanford. I can't remember any racial slurs
or gay jokes etc. Fact is, the comments I have heard shouted
by otherwise respectable middle-aged white men at Duke
players over the years in a variety of arenas have led me to
believe that Duke runs a pretty good joint, and I am proud
of having been a part of it.
-Will
Kevin Denelsbeck
In article <887013274....@dejanews.com>, <nic...@mailexcite.com> wrote:
>I'm a Duke fan, but it obvious Carolina for some time has had The High
>Hand over Duke. I hope Duke breaks that hold later in the month!
>
>BTW, in the old westerns the gunslinger usually killed the one with The
>High Hand at the end of the movie.
Yeah, but in the movies the gunslinger represented the forces of
Good, so some sort of cosmic balance was being redressed at the end.
That is not the case here.
(:->'s for the humor-impaired.)
George W. Harris
In 9 Feb 1998 09:01:00 -0500 of yore, w...@acpub.duke.edu (WILLIAM GAY) wrote
thusly:
=Rob Mac K <blud...@REMOVE.THIS.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
=
=It was the Maiter Di (sp?) from Ferris Bueller, who offered it
=as a parting shot before scurrying off to answer the phone
=after Ferris threatened to yell "rat".
THe guy who runs the restaurant is a "maitre d'"
The Catholic highschool is "Mater Dei". I think you meant
the former.
=-Will
--
"If you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce, they
taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does." -Grouch Marx
George W. Harris For actual emain address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
Shawn Spence
>During pregame introductions, of course...
Still classless. Throwing donut and pizza boxes at Dennis Scott is
probably the most classless act I have ever seen by fans at a
basketball game.
--
...and I thank you for your attention,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
"Two roads diverged in a wood and I
Shawn Spence -I took the one less traveled by,
Marietta College and that has made all the difference."
Box 970, Marietta, OH 45750
spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu -Robert Frost
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
Rob Mac K
In article <slrn46dv28d...@mcnet.marietta.edu>,
spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu says...
> >During pregame introductions, of course...
>
> Still classless. Throwing donut and pizza boxes at Dennis Scott is
> probably the most classless act I have ever seen by fans at a
> basketball game.
You obviously ain't seen much, then. Of course, that's news to no one
around here by now...
Geoffrey Green
In article <slrn46dv28d...@mcnet.marietta.edu>,
spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu (Shawn Spence) wrote:
>>During pregame introductions, of course...
>
>Still classless. Throwing donut and pizza boxes at Dennis Scott is
>probably the most classless act I have ever seen by fans at a
>basketball game.
Yea. Boy, compared to chanting "PLO", making fun of someone's weight is
real tasteless. Or chanting "faggot" and "homosexual" and making other
such taunts at a basketball player during a game; that's nothing compared
to throwing *pizza boxes*. Or throwing stuff on the floor *during* a
game.
James C. Armstrong
In article <slrn46dv28d...@mcnet.marietta.edu>,
Shawn Spence <spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu> wrote:
>Still classless. Throwing donut and pizza boxes at Dennis Scott is
>probably the most classless act I have ever seen by fans at a
>basketball game.
Really? As bad as when the Arizona State fans serenaded Steve Kerr
with "PLO?"
--
James C. Armstrong, Jr. | Access the college tournament scores
ja...@sagarmatha.com | database:
j...@netcom.com | http://www.sportsstats.com/
E-mail sent to this address is never read. Use james(at)sagarmatha(dot)com
WILLIAM GAY
Shawn Spence <spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu> wrote:
>Still classless. Throwing donut and pizza boxes at Dennis Scott is
>probably the most classless act I have ever seen by fans at a
>basketball game.
Now Shawn, I beg to differ. I was at that game, and Dennis Scott
spent a great deal of time during warmups chatting with the students
on the press row side. The rest of the Jackets left to go back
into the locker room, and Dennis was shooting 30 footers, making
just about every one. The crowd was giving him the business,
but cheering him more and more as he moved out (swishing 2 or 3
from 45 feet!). He seemed to really dig the whole scene. When he
trotted out during formal introductions the court was barraged by
twinkies (not pizza boxes). Scott was grabbing his knees he was
laughing so hard, as were his teammates. Or maybe that was tears
of shame from us meanies hurting his feelings?
Its a rough and tumble world, Shawn. But I think these kids
can handle that kind of thing. Is it really worst than some
blue haired old Dome crone inflicting the visiting team with
that horrified frown of death? You know, the look they get
when one of those, those animals from Clemson dunks with
authority? Look into her eyes, and you see as much ugliness
as in the Duke student section.
-Will
Bob.C...@chron.com
In article <jcaEo5...@netcom.com>,
j...@netcom.com (James C. Armstrong) wrote:
> Really? As bad as when the Arizona State fans serenaded Steve Kerr
> with "PLO?"
I think we can agree this was the worst, followed by the McInnis-Ford
stuff, and the "Ewing Kant Read This" series. I wouldn't want to hear
worse, anyway. But it's time to move on.
What are your favorite taunts? You know, the ones that made you think,
"Gee, I wish I'd thought of that." Or, when you think of them today, you
smile, chuckle, or even laugh out loud.
I'm talking more clever than crude, if you get my drift.
My favorites (I'm dating myself, plus I need a little help.)
1. In the late '70s, Kansas fans throwing hot dogs at Curtis Redding of
K-State when he was introduced. Harmless fun, I say.
These are the ones on which I need some help:
2. Another late '70s: At which ACC school was it that the students
jingled car keys when Clyde Austin of NC State was introduced?
3. Any Missouri fans out there? I remember reading a few years back about
a stunt the Antlers pulled on, I think, a short OU player. They hoisted
one of their smaller members out of the crowd in pregame warmups and
yelled, "(player's name), we've got your brother!."
Bob
Gerry Oxford
On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:23:16 -0600, Bob.C...@chron.com wrote:
>I>
>These are the ones on which I need some help:
>
>2. Another late '70s: At which ACC school was it that the students
>jingled car keys when Clyde Austin of NC State was introduced?
Duke, of course. As I recall, the circumstances related to a car
(Corvette, I believe) that Clyde was driving at the time and claimed
belonged to his girlfriend. The sound in Cameron was eerie ... the
arena goes stone quiet as Austin comes to the line, then the jingling
of thousands of sets of carkeys in perfectly choreographed synchrony.
As only the Crazies can do it. I was there and ROTFL.
Gerry S. Oxford
Department of Physiology
UNC-Chapel Hill
____________________________________________
"The opinions expressed above were left over
after all the good ones had been taken"
____________________________________________
NoSpam Note: Remove "your_hat" before responding
by e-mail.
Rob Mac K
In article <887123994...@dejanews.com>, Bob.C...@chron.com
says...
> In article <jcaEo5...@netcom.com>,
> j...@netcom.com (James C. Armstrong) wrote:
>
> > Really? As bad as when the Arizona State fans serenaded Steve Kerr
> > with "PLO?"
>
> I think we can agree this was the worst, followed by the McInnis-Ford
> stuff, and the "Ewing Kant Read This" series. I wouldn't want to hear
> worse, anyway. But it's time to move on.
>
> What are your favorite taunts? You know, the ones that made you think,
> "Gee, I wish I'd thought of that." Or, when you think of them today, you
> smile, chuckle, or even laugh out loud.
>
> I'm talking more clever than crude, if you get my drift.
I was at the ACC Tournament a few years ago, and the Duke and UVA student
sections were basically right next to each other. At one point before
the games, they were going back and forth, giving each other the
business. Finally, the UVa kids came back with "We've got Jefferson,
you've got Nixon! We've got Jefferson, you've got Nixon!"
All the Duke people were cracking up. They had us there... hehehehe.
Robinson Everett
Shawn Spence wrote:
> >During pregame introductions, of course...
>
> Still classless. Throwing donut and pizza boxes at Dennis Scott is
> probably the most classless act I have ever seen by fans at a
> basketball game.
>
i know i'm only giving the Duke-haters out there more ammo, but as
someone who's been going to Cameron for most of his 22 years, i can
think of quite a few other, worse offenses. in no particular order:
1) when UNC's Steve Hale was sitting out a game because of (i believe)
a punctured lung, he was serenaded with "in-HALE, ex-HALE."
2) The pizza boxes incident: actually had nothing to do with Dennis
Scott, but was directed at NC State's Lorenzo Charles (or possibly
another one of their big men from the early to mid-80s). he had been
accused of robbing a pizza delivery man, and thus the barrage of boxes.
3) Again NC State. again a post player. this time Washburn (or could
it have been Shackleford?) was accused of breaking into a fellow
student's room in Raleigh and stealing a stereo. he was peppered with
cardboard stereos made by the students. i think some people sent down
some LPs too. remember those?
4) Maryland's Herman Veal, accused of rape or sexual assault was
showered with panties and condoms as he was introduced.
5) One that maybe only i noticed: as three Maryland players were
lining up, short to tall, for a picture some half hour before a game,
the fans chanted "Dumb, dumber, dumbest."
and of course, plenty of fans behind the opponents' bench have been
called fat, and jeff mcinnis was called an asshole, but come on, it
happens everywhere. tell me it was some sort of glitch in my television
on thursday when i heard dean dome fans saying, "Wo-jo sucks. wo-jo
sucks." i'm not saying that i like the cameron fans, and i certainly
didn't enjoy having to sit among them when i was a student here,
(because anybody who knows anything understands that the real fans are
upstairs. the people down below are all johnny-come-latelies, but
they're funny johnny-come-latelies. and they're our
johnny-come-latelies.), but when you start talking about whether
they're classy or classless, you have to accept the fact that when you
put 3,000 college-age kids together, they're going to do some stupid
things. when you start making statements like, "well, at least we never
shouted POW at Steve Kerr," perhaps it's because it never came up. and
when carolina fans say, "at least we're never heard on tv screaming
obscenities," perhaps that's because they're too far away from the
microphones. unless you really think that one group of 3,000 20-year
olds can actually be "classier" or "better" than another. if you
believe that then i can't help you.
Mark Mcbride
Bob.C...@chron.com wrote:
> What are your favorite taunts? You know, the ones that made you think,
> "Gee, I wish I'd thought of that." Or, when you think of them today, you
> smile, chuckle, or even laugh out loud.
Not a taunt, but I saw a great sign at a few of the NC State games that
I've seen this year which was hoisted whenever Inge was fouled. It
read:
Oh my god, they've fouled Kenny!! You Bastards!!
I thought it was hilarious.
Mark
Shawn Spence
In article <jcaEo5...@netcom.com>, James C. Armstrong wrote:
>In article <slrn46dv28d...@mcnet.marietta.edu>,
>Shawn Spence <spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu> wrote:
>>probably the most classless act I have ever seen by fans at a
>>basketball game.
>
>with "PLO?"
My reaction is that they're both totally classless. It's six one way
and half a dozen the other as to which is worse. I didn't see the incident
you're talking about, which is probably why I didn't include it in my
thought process. The Robert Morris football team wearing their jocks on
the outside of their clothing was pretty classless too, but in a different
way, considering they were being honored for their NEC championship and
all walked out on the court looking like general morons.
Shawn Spence
>Hee Hee! One of the first exchanges I had with Zippy occurred after a
>Duke/GT game in which Bobby Hurley ran into a Malcolm Mackey pick that
>nearly knocked Hurley out. Rob, naturally, vilified Mackey as a thug who
>was trying to injure Hurley. That's to be expected. What I didn't expect
>was for Rob to tell me that if I had done that to him on the playground
>he'd have taken my head off with an elbow. Some gentleman, eh?
Nice guy. Small wonder that he has actually turned people away from being
fans of Duke basketball. Duke students, no less.
Matthew J. Norris
In article <jcaEo5...@netcom.com>,
j...@netcom.com (James C. Armstrong) wrote:
>In article <slrn46dv28d...@mcnet.marietta.edu>,
>Shawn Spence <spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu> wrote:
>>Still classless. Throwing donut and pizza boxes at Dennis Scott is
>>probably the most classless act I have ever seen by fans at a
>>basketball game.
>
>Really? As bad as when the Arizona State fans serenaded Steve Kerr
>with "PLO?"
>--
James, be fair - - he did say it was the most "classless act [he had]
ever seen." I think this explains much. After all, in Spence's little
world, where Purdue basketball began its program with Glenn Robinson,
and Robert O'Kelley's a point guard, the natural laws to which you
and I have grown accustomed do not apply.
For what it's worth, BTW, it was twinkies, not pizza boxes (that was
another harrowing "incident"), and Dennis Scott thought it was absolutely
hysterical. He loved the Cameron crowd, and later told the Chronicle
that the twinkies episode was one of the greatest things he'd ever seen
opposing fans do. It's nice to know that Dennis isn't an humorless
spazz like some other people we know, isn't it?
--
Matt
George W. Harris
In Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:39:15 GMT of yore, gsox@your_hat.med.unc.edu (Gerry
Oxford) wrote thusly:
=On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:23:16 -0600, Bob.C...@chron.com wrote:
=
=>I>
=>These are the ones on which I need some help:
=>
=>2. Another late '70s: At which ACC school was it that the students
=>jingled car keys when Clyde Austin of NC State was introduced?
=
=Duke, of course. As I recall, the circumstances related to a car
=(Corvette, I believe) that Clyde was driving at the time and claimed
=belonged to his girlfriend.
It was a Caddillac, actually (hope I doubled the right
consonants there).
A couple of others that spring to mind, in the Duke-
Carolina rivalry:
In the season finale Duke center Mike Gminski,
coming down with a rebound, inadvertantly caught UNC
guard Dave Colescott in the face with an elbow, fracturing
his orbit (ouch). At the ACC tourney, UNC fans starting a
lame "Gminksi, Elbow!" cheer or something, to which the
Duke section responded with "Hit him again! Hit him again!
Harder, harder!"
UNC guard Steve Hale's collapsed lung inspired in
an ensuing match-up the classic "In-Hale! Ex-Hale!" cheer.
In the 1985 ACC Tourney in Atlanta, in either a first-
or second-round game, UNC center Brad Daugherty's
shoelaces came untied, and play was stopped so that he
could remedy the problem. As the stoppage of play dragged
on and on, the cheer arose "Someone show him how!
Someone show him how!"
=Gerry S. Oxford
--
Doesn't the fact that there are *exactly* fifty states seem a little suspicious?
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
Rob Mac K
In article <slrn46e15a9...@mcnet.marietta.edu>,
spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu says...
> In article <jcaEo5...@netcom.com>, James C. Armstrong wrote:
> >In article <slrn46dv28d...@mcnet.marietta.edu>,
> >Shawn Spence <spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu> wrote:
> >>Still classless. Throwing donut and pizza boxes at Dennis Scott is
> >>probably the most classless act I have ever seen by fans at a
> >>basketball game.
> >
> >Really? As bad as when the Arizona State fans serenaded Steve Kerr
> >with "PLO?"
>
> and half a dozen the other as to which is worse. I didn't see the incident
Wow. You get the Complete and Total Lack of Perspective Award.
Jonathan S. Serody
>
>
> Its a rough and tumble world, Shawn. But I think these kids
> can handle that kind of thing.
Does the throwing of condoms at Herman Veal of MD also count as a
humorous engagement with the crowd or does that meet your definition of
classless.
JDunlop
>Subject: Your Favorite Taunts (was: Thoughts on Duke/UNC Rivalry)
>From: Bob.C...@chron.com
>Date: Tue, Feb 10, 1998 10:23 EST
>Message-id: <887123994...@dejanews.com>
>
>
>What are your favorite taunts? You know, the ones that made you think,
>"Gee, I wish I'd thought of that." Or, when you think of them today, you
>smile, chuckle, or even laugh out loud.
>
>I'm talking more clever than crude, if you get my drift.
>
>My favorites (I'm dating myself, plus I need a little help.)
>
>1. In the late '70s, Kansas fans throwing hot dogs at Curtis Redding of
>K-State when he was introduced. Harmless fun, I say.
Throwing hot dogs at a player is funny, but throwing donuts at a player who had
battled (and at that time won) weight problems because of Twinkees (and other
junk food) isn't?
>These are the ones on which I need some help:
>
>2. Another late '70s: At which ACC school was it that the students
>jingled car keys when Clyde Austin of NC State was introduced?
Where do you think? Duke. (Clyde was driving around in an MG or Caddy, both
of which his girlfriend bought on her bank teller's salary, or so the story
goes.) Notre Dame did this on national TV a couple of years later against
UCLA, and the press noted how creative the ND fans were.
>3. Any Missouri fans out there? I remember reading a few years back about
>a stunt the Antlers pulled on, I think, a short OU player. They hoisted
>one of their smaller members out of the crowd in pregame warmups and
>yelled, "(player's name), we've got your brother!."
>
My favorite chants (from Duke) have been:
To Steve Hale and his collapsed lung: In-Hale! Ex-Hale! (He was in street
clothes for the game, and broke out laughing for that one.)
To Navy, when up over them by about 20 late in the Eastern Regional
Championship game in 1986: Abandon Ship
To Rick "Albino Thunder" Yonaker (sp?), who shot UNC's only shots in the first
half of the game (and got nothing but air) at Cameron in '79: Air-Ball (the
start of that infamous cheer.)
James Dunlop
Duke '82
JDunlop
>Subject: Re: Your Favorite Taunts (was: Thoughts on Duke/UNC Rivalry)
>From: blud...@REMOVE.THIS.worldnet.att.net (Rob Mac K)
>Date: Tue, Feb 10, 1998 13:15 EST
>Message-id: <6bq5i4$m...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>
>I was at the ACC Tournament a few years ago, and the Duke and UVA student
>sections were basically right next to each other. At one point before
>the games, they were going back and forth, giving each other the
>business. Finally, the UVa kids came back with "We've got Jefferson,
>you've got Nixon! We've got Jefferson, you've got Nixon!"
1986 tourney. Back in the "good old days" of eight teams in the conference,
they put four student sections in each end zone. So Duke, Maryland, Virginia
and Carolina were in the same end zone. Virginia started against Duke (and
Maryland, I guess) with "Lefty went to Duke", so the Duke students went back
"Terry played for Lefty". Then the Virginia students went "Nixon went too" and
the Duke students went into the Nixon pose (raised hands making the "V"ictory
sign, with the appropriate floppy cheeks). This was also the start of the "JR
can't Read" chant, as UNC started chanting the name of the recent recruit.
Michele
How bout the one from the NCSU student section- "you can't smoke our
Herb"...
not nearly as funny, but pretty creative nonetheless.
~m
Mark Mcbride wrote:
>
> Bob.C...@chron.com wrote:
>
> > What are your favorite taunts? You know, the ones that made you think,
> > "Gee, I wish I'd thought of that." Or, when you think of them today, you
> > smile, chuckle, or even laugh out loud.
>
Joel Zeeman
> ROFLMAO!! As much as I dig UNC basketball, the retirees that fill the
> stands really get to me. A few years ago a couple of friends of mine
> got tickets that were near but not next to one another. Next to one
> of them was a seat piled with coats and on the other side was one of
> the aforementioned bluehairs, reading a book throughout the game.
> When my friend asked if her husband could sit there next to her, she
> got "the look" usually reserved for Iker Iturbe and was informed of
> how much money they gave to the Rams Club so that they would have an
> extra seat for their coats! While that may not be typical, there are
> WAY too many of those folks there. Give me Carmichael back any day...
Bingo. I snuck down into the money seats in the Dean Dome a couple of years
ago during a game vs. Old Dominion, and the old lady sitting next to me
literally fell asleep. Carmichael was the greatest. Standing up in the
bleachers for the whole game, being squeezed shoulder to shoulder, only a few
feet from K or V or Terry Holland or Lefty or the hated Jeff Lamp or Frank
Johnson....now THAT was an atmosphere. I used to bitch and moan if I got
tickets way up at the top, behind the pep band....those seats were closer
than 70% of the seats in the Dean Dome. Just about everything about that
place, from the parking gestapo outside to the artificial amplification of
the band to the corporate fat cats sitting in the good seats to Ram Road,
turns me off.
James C. Armstrong
In article <34e081fe...@news.oit.unc.edu>,
Gerry Oxford <gsox@your_hat.med.unc.edu> wrote:
>Duke, of course. As I recall, the circumstances related to a car
>arena goes stone quiet as Austin comes to the line, then the jingling
>of thousands of sets of carkeys in perfectly choreographed synchrony.
>As only the Crazies can do it. I was there and ROTFL.
There were two cars involved, which is incredible since his father
earned $5000/year.
I'll tell you, it was not choreographed. It was entirely spontaneous.
When Clyde stepped to the line for his first, I pulled out
my keys, and told every one around to do the same. Al of Psi Up
across the way saw, and immediately told the people near him to do
the same. Clang. The second shot was when everyone did it...
James C. Armstrong
In article <19980210231...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
JDunlop <jdu...@aol.com> wrote:
>To Rick "Albino Thunder" Yonaker (sp?), who shot UNC's only shots in the first
>half of the game (and got nothing but air) at Cameron in '79: Air-Ball (the
>start of that infamous cheer.)
A second shot was attempted. Dave Colescott put up a desperation heave
at the end of the first half. It went in the record books, UNC was
0-2 from the floor, and 0-0 from the foul line.
Do you recall why "air ball" started with that A-C musical sound, instead
of "Air ball" (Clap clap), mimicing the "Defense" chant?
Tony Patterson
On 10 Feb 1998 08:37:14 -0500, w...@acpub.duke.edu (WILLIAM GAY) wrote:
>
>Its a rough and tumble world, Shawn. But I think these kids
>can handle that kind of thing. Is it really worst than some
>blue haired old Dome crone inflicting the visiting team with
>that horrified frown of death? You know, the look they get
>when one of those, those animals from Clemson dunks with
>authority? Look into her eyes, and you see as much ugliness
>as in the Duke student section.
>
>-Will
ROFLMAO!! As much as I dig UNC basketball, the retirees that fill the
stands really get to me. A few years ago a couple of friends of mine
got tickets that were near but not next to one another. Next to one
of them was a seat piled with coats and on the other side was one of
the aforementioned bluehairs, reading a book throughout the game.
When my friend asked if her husband could sit there next to her, she
got "the look" usually reserved for Iker Iturbe and was informed of
how much money they gave to the Rams Club so that they would have an
extra seat for their coats! While that may not be typical, there are
WAY too many of those folks there. Give me Carmichael back any day...
Cheers,
TP
UNC '82
--------
The above opinions are only barely mine and probably
do not reflect the opinions of, Nortel yadda, yadda, yadda
"Just as the strength of the Internet is chaos, so the strength of our
liberty depends upon the chaos and cacaphony of the unfettered speech the
First Amendment protects." - CDA decision
Geoffrey Green
>Bingo. I snuck down into the money seats in the Dean Dome a couple of years
>ago during a game vs. Old Dominion, and the old lady sitting next to me
>literally fell asleep. Carmichael was the greatest. Standing up in the
>bleachers for the whole game, being squeezed shoulder to shoulder, only a few
>feet from K or V or Terry Holland or Lefty or the hated Jeff Lamp or Frank
>Johnson....now THAT was an atmosphere. I used to bitch and moan if I got
>tickets way up at the top, behind the pep band....those seats were closer
>than 70% of the seats in the Dean Dome. Just about everything about that
>place, from the parking gestapo outside to the artificial amplification of
>the band to the corporate fat cats sitting in the good seats to Ram Road,
>turns me off.
The "money" people at Duke aren't always, err, active. I went to the
Georgia Tech game the weekend before last, and sat in one of the folding
chairs behind the basket at the Duke end of the court three rows back and
three seats in on the slut* side of the court, right in front of the
graduate student section. I didn't stand the entire game because I feared
I would block the view of the people behind me. But those times I did
stand, and cheered on my team, the middle-aged woman in the row in front
of me gave me the half-turn over and over again. I stand up, she turns; I
stand up, she turns. I'm not sure what her problem was; it's a basketball
game, for goodness sakes. What does she want, peace and quiet?
WILLIAM GAY
Jonathan S. Serody <FLOB, 605, UNC> wrote:
>Does the throwing of condoms at Herman Veal of MD also count as a
>humorous engagement with the crowd or does that meet your definition
>of classless.
Admittedly, that is pretty bad. I would have you respect the
fact that I was only addressing the statement that the
pizzaboxes (twinkies, actually) thrown at Scott was the most
classless thing the poster (you? Spence?) had ever seen.
I was a Terp fan at the time, hated Duke, and thought it kind
of sucked and was kind of funny. I'm sure Veal did not think
so.
Duke fans certainly have had their moments of classlessness.
I wouldn't say that they have been horrendous, certainly. They
*have* been more noticeable due to the unity possible given the
way the students are arranged in Cameron. Maybe that is a
blessing, though, since it allows regular expression and vents
enough steam to forestall the *really* nasty stuff.
I will admit to times, both in Cameron and after, that I cringed
at our behavior. It is lamentable, but I wouldn't go around
making blanket statements about Duke's place in the fan
pantheon. To me, that smacks of an agenda and won't get you
anywhere but in yet another annoying, drawn-out argument that
does noone any good.
-Will
Patrick J McDonough
Bob.C...@chron.com wrote:
: What are your favorite taunts? You know, the ones that made you think,
: "Gee, I wish I'd thought of that." Or, when you think of them today, you
: smile, chuckle, or even laugh out loud.
Okay. This is a sign that got me and one of my close friends on
sportscenter, frozen next to Chris Berman's head after the WU-Duke game
in LJVM in 1996...
"Coach K's Daughter Wears Black and Gold- 'Nuff said!"
--
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\ Patrick J. McDonough Email: mcd...@NOSPAMwfu.edu\\
\\ WFU Admissions Counselor Phone: (336)758-4929 \\
\\Wake Forest University '97 \\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Rob Mac K
In article <MPG.f4abe1ea...@news.concentric.net>,
mark...@concentric.net says...
> In article <6bqkc2$9...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, Rob Mac K says...
> > In article <slrn46e15a9...@mcnet.marietta.edu>,
> > spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu says...
> > > In article <jcaEo5...@netcom.com>, James C. Armstrong wrote:
> > > >In article <slrn46dv28d...@mcnet.marietta.edu>,
> > > >Shawn Spence <spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu> wrote:
> > > >>Still classless. Throwing donut and pizza boxes at Dennis Scott is
> > > >>probably the most classless act I have ever seen by fans at a
> > > >>basketball game.
> > > >
> > > >Really? As bad as when the Arizona State fans serenaded Steve Kerr
> > > >with "PLO?"
> > >
> > > My reaction is that they're both totally classless. It's six one way
> > > and half a dozen the other as to which is worse. I didn't see the incident
> >
> > Wow. You get the Complete and Total Lack of Perspective Award.
>
> the PLO? Only thing I can think of.
I hope you're right. Although it's certainly been discussed in this
forum enough times that he *ought* to be aware of it.
Geoffrey Green
In article <3544d364....@news.mindspring.com>,
gha...@mundsprung.com wrote:
> A couple of others that spring to mind, in the Duke-
>Carolina rivalry:
[snip]
And, of course, after being amonished by Terry Sanford, the angelic Duke
fans at the Duke-UNC game, with such family-friendly chants as "We beg to
differ."
Rick Arnoldy
Someone wrote:
> >
> >1. In the late '70s, Kansas fans throwing hot dogs at Curtis Redding of
> >K-State when he was introduced. Harmless fun, I say.
>
Didn't the K-State fans follow that up by throwing bananas at "Ted's
Trained Apes"? Definitely politically incorrect. I remember listening to
that game on the radio.
A blue and red painted chicken flying across the court is a common site at
a KU-KSU game.
Kris Carabetta
Bob.C...@chron.com wrote:
>In article <jcaEo5...@netcom.com>,
> j...@netcom.com (James C. Armstrong) wrote:
>
>> Really? As bad as when the Arizona State fans serenaded Steve Kerr
>> with "PLO?"
>
>I think we can agree this was the worst, followed by the McInnis-Ford
>stuff, and the "Ewing Kant Read This" series. I wouldn't want to hear
>worse, anyway. But it's time to move on.
>
>What are your favorite taunts? You know, the ones that made you think,
>"Gee, I wish I'd thought of that." Or, when you think of them today, you
>smile, chuckle, or even laugh out loud.
>
>I'm talking more clever than crude, if you get my drift.
>
>My favorites (I'm dating myself, plus I need a little help.)
>
>1. In the late '70s, Kansas fans throwing hot dogs at Curtis Redding of
>K-State when he was introduced. Harmless fun, I say.
>
>These are the ones on which I need some help:
>
>2. Another late '70s: At which ACC school was it that the students
>jingled car keys when Clyde Austin of NC State was introduced?
>
>3. Any Missouri fans out there? I remember reading a few years back about
>a stunt the Antlers pulled on, I think, a short OU player. They hoisted
>one of their smaller members out of the crowd in pregame warmups and
>yelled, "(player's name), we've got your brother!."
>
>Bob
>
>-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Wasn't it Duke who threw pizza boxes at an N.C. State guy who supposed
to have ripped off the delivery guy??
Plus, I'm amazed at the TV audio that can block out all of Cameron
chanting "Asshole". Its never really clear enough to offend all the
stuffy UNC fans who would be watching!
Kris
Duke Psychology, '96
JDunlop
>Subject: Re: Your Favorite Taunts (was: Thoughts on Duke/UNC Rivalry)
>Date: Tue, Feb 10, 1998 19:05 EST
>Message-id: <jcaEo6...@netcom.com>
>
>In article <19980210231...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
>JDunlop <jdu...@aol.com> wrote:
>>To Rick "Albino Thunder" Yonaker (sp?), who shot UNC's only shots in the
>first
>>half of the game (and got nothing but air) at Cameron in '79: Air-Ball (the
>>start of that infamous cheer.)
>
>A second shot was attempted. Dave Colescott put up a desperation heave
>at the end of the first half. It went in the record books, UNC was
>0-2 from the floor, and 0-0 from the foul line.
I thought Chicky took two shots (I remember the last second heave, didn't think
it counted.)
>Do you recall why "air ball" started with that A-C musical sound, instead
>of "Air ball" (Clap clap), mimicing the "Defense" chant?
It sounds more sarcastic with the "AIR-Balllll", but I don't recall why it
started that way.
Craig Moe
Robinson Everett (eve...@faculty.law.duke.edu) wrote:
: tell me it was some sort of glitch in my television on thursday when i
: heard dean dome fans saying, "Wo-jo sucks. wo-jo sucks."
'Fraid not. And that's considered creative by Carolina Fever. (UNC's fan
organization [1] that gets seats right behind the basket in exchange
for... well, we're still not quite sure what they do to get those seats.)
Anything worth listening to comes from the student section behind the
bench or the band.
[1] Word used rather liberally.
--
Craig Moe <Crai...@unc.edu>
"United We Stand. Divided We Watch a Lot of TV." --Danny Siegle
James C. Armstrong
In article <19980211164...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
JDunlop <jdu...@aol.com> wrote:
>>A second shot was attempted. Dave Colescott put up a desperation heave
>>at the end of the first half. It went in the record books, UNC was
>>0-2 from the floor, and 0-0 from the foul line.
>
>I thought Chicky took two shots (I remember the last second heave, didn't think
>it counted.)
He had two turnovers in the first half. That's what you remember.
>>Do you recall why "air ball" started with that A-C musical sound, instead
>>of "Air ball" (Clap clap), mimicing the "Defense" chant?
>It sounds more sarcastic with the "AIR-Balllll", but I don't recall why it
>started that way.
We were chanting "BORRRRRRing" at the time Chicky tried the shot.
Cebarat
>Shawn Spence <spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu> wrote:
>
>>Still classless. Throwing donut and pizza boxes at Dennis Scott is
>>probably the most classless act I have ever seen by fans at a
>>basketball game.
I think I'd still have to give the nod (or finger) to the Arizona
State "fans" who taunted Steve Kerr about his dad's assassination
in 1988.
The Duke fans can be rough, but a lot of the time, the victim
brought his troubles on himself. What did Kerr do to deserve
that sort of treatment? Having lost a father while in college myself,
I could not understand the mentality that would allow that to be
used as "suitable" heckling.
Chris Barat
ceb...@aol.com
Homepage http://members.aol.com/cebarat/home.htm
George W. Harris
In 11 Feb 1998 16:07:40 GMT of yore, cgm...@email.unc.edu (Craig Moe) wrote
thusly:
=Robinson Everett (eve...@faculty.law.duke.edu) wrote:
=
=: tell me it was some sort of glitch in my television on thursday when i
=: heard dean dome fans saying, "Wo-jo sucks. wo-jo sucks."
=
='Fraid not. And that's considered creative by Carolina Fever. (UNC's fan
=organization [1] that gets seats right behind the basket in exchange
=for... well, we're still not quite sure what they do to get those seats.)
Perhaps for agreeing to participate in a medical study
on the effects of lobotomies...
--
They say there's air in your lungs that's been there for years.
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'.
George W. Harris
In Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:56:53 -0500 of yore, gfg...@is4.nyu.edu (Geoffrey
Green) wrote thusly:
=And, of course, after being amonished by Terry Sanford, the angelic Duke
=fans at the Duke-UNC game, with such family-friendly chants as "We beg to
=differ."
Along with the "Please Miss!" sign helpfully held up
when opponents were shooting freethrows...
=Geoffrey Green
=http://pages/nyu.edu/~gfg0877/
--
"If you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce, they
taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does." -Grouch Marx
George W. Harris For actual emain address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
Donnie Barnes
>=: tell me it was some sort of glitch in my television on thursday when i
>=: heard dean dome fans saying, "Wo-jo sucks. wo-jo sucks."
>=
>='Fraid not. And that's considered creative by Carolina Fever. (UNC's fan
>=organization [1] that gets seats right behind the basket in exchange
>=for... well, we're still not quite sure what they do to get those seats.)
>
> Perhaps for agreeing to participate in a medical study
>on the effects of lobotomies...
They already did that study about 11 miles northeast...of course,
it was all done in secret in something called a "tent city" and rumors
are that it happens annually now.
--Donnie
--
Donnie Barnes http://www.redhat.com/~djb d...@redhat.com "Bah."
Challenge Diversity. Ignore People. Live Life. Use Linux. 879.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
_Things You'd NEVER Expect A Southerner To Say_ by Vic Henley:
** I don't want a flannel shirt for Christmas.
Shawn Spence
>Now Shawn, I beg to differ. I was at that game, and Dennis Scott
>spent a great deal of time during warmups chatting with the students
>on the press row side. The rest of the Jackets left to go back
>into the locker room, and Dennis was shooting 30 footers, making
>just about every one. The crowd was giving him the business,
>but cheering him more and more as he moved out (swishing 2 or 3
>from 45 feet!). He seemed to really dig the whole scene. When he
>trotted out during formal introductions the court was barraged by
>twinkies (not pizza boxes). Scott was grabbing his knees he was
>laughing so hard, as were his teammates. Or maybe that was tears
>of shame from us meanies hurting his feelings?
It's a tribute to him that he can laugh it off. Maybe it gives him a
feeling of moral superiority. I don't know. But the fact that he
isn't offended by it doesn't give it more or less class.
>Its a rough and tumble world, Shawn. But I think these kids
>can handle that kind of thing.
That isn't the issue. A classy group of fans wouldn't make them endure
it.
Is it really worst than some
>blue haired old Dome crone inflicting the visiting team with
>that horrified frown of death?
Yes. Because you disrupt the game (even if it is before, you alter
the setting in which the game is being played because the players now
have to sit around and wait while people clean up the mess you've
made, possibly altering their mindset they worked to get into in teh
locker room), risk injury to someone on the court,
You know, the look they get
>when one of those, those animals from Clemson dunks with
>authority? Look into her eyes, and you see as much ugliness
>as in the Duke student section.
I don't care. If they don't throw things or hurl classless comments,
so what? They aren't hurting the game. Throwing things onto the court
disrupts the game, and loudly shouting obscene or offensive remarks can
alter the game or at least fans' enjoyment of it.
Why do you have to show up the other team or officials at all? Why
can't you just be fans and cheer for your team? Why can't you just
enjoy watching your team play the game you love to watch?
--
...and I thank you for your attention,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
"Two roads diverged in a wood and I
Shawn Spence -I took the one less traveled by,
Marietta College and that has made all the difference."
Box 970, Marietta, OH 45750
spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu -Robert Frost
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
ROCHEMAN
>Why do you have to show up the other team or officials at all? Why
>can't you just be fans and cheer for your team? Why can't you just
>enjoy watching your team play the game you love to watch?
Lighten up Frances!
JDunlop
>Subject: Re: Thoughts on Duke/UNC Rivalry
>From: w...@acpub.duke.edu (WILLIAM GAY)
>Date: Wed, Feb 11, 1998 09:04 EST
>Message-id: <6bsb5k$9...@news.duke.edu>
>
>Jonathan S. Serody <FLOB, 605, UNC> wrote:
>
>>Does the throwing of condoms at Herman Veal of MD also count as a
>>humorous engagement with the crowd or does that meet your definition
>>of classless.
>
>Admittedly, that is pretty bad. I would have you respect the
>fact that I was only addressing the statement that the
>pizzaboxes (twinkies, actually) thrown at Scott was the most
>classless thing the poster (you? Spence?) had ever seen.
>
>I was a Terp fan at the time, hated Duke, and thought it kind
>of sucked and was kind of funny. I'm sure Veal did not think
>so.
I should point out that the same week that Denlinger printed "majoring in
smartass" in the Washington Post (regarding the Veal incident), the crowd had
to be maced during a game at, I believe, Old Dominion. (The security forces
convienently accidentally got some of the opposing players, as well.)
Denlinger didn't think anything of that, it seemed, but chanting some
(definitely over the line) things at Veal about his problems with the opposite
sex was one of the worst things ever.
Bob Wade commented after his first trip to Cameron that it was the best he (and
the Maryland team) had been treated during an away game. No mentions of Len
Bias (unlike his earlier trip to, not coincidentally, ODU) or coke or anything,
only polite applause and the usual cheering/booing during a game. The George
Michael Sports Machine sent a crew down to document how "tough" Wade's first
year was, and went home with a different story.
Related to Steve Kerr's trip to ASU, when Scott Williams came to Cameron the
season after his father and mother died in a murder/suicide, not a word was
said about it. (Let me rephrase, no organized crowd cheering by a group, there
are always some sick individuals that stick out anywhere.)
I'm not saying that the Cameron crowd are angels, they certainly are not. But
I believe they are more civilized than a number of other crowds (creative
rather than crude), in the ACC and out. I think the Maryland and State crowds,
to mention two, are much cruder.
If your criteria is not saying anything about an opposing team or player,
though, and you can exempt just about every crowd anywhere.
James Dunlop
Duke '82
Shawn Spence
>>Hee Hee! One of the first exchanges I had with Zippy occurred after a
>>Duke/GT game in which Bobby Hurley ran into a Malcolm Mackey pick that
>>nearly knocked Hurley out. Rob, naturally, vilified Mackey as a thug who
>>was trying to injure Hurley. That's to be expected. What I didn't expect
>>was for Rob to tell me that if I had done that to him on the playground
>>he'd have taken my head off with an elbow. Some gentleman, eh?
>
>Oh, come on, Mike! Can't you stop posting this kind of drivel and use
>your time here to make a more lasting contribution?
Too honest for ya?
I, for one, thought it was a very interesting illustration of just what
kind of person Rob MacKenna is.
Shawn Spence
>real tasteless. Or chanting "faggot" and "homosexual" and making other
>such taunts at a basketball player during a game;
Why is it more accept to make fun of a weight problem than some other
undesirable? Shouldn't be.
Why do the Duke students feel the need to be a collection of unbelievable
assholes anyway?
that's nothing compared
>to throwing *pizza boxes*. Or throwing stuff on the floor *during* a
>game.
It is classless to throw things onto a court during a game. It can cause
injury and definitely causes disruption. Not to mention it is totally
unnecessary.
In a normal public setting is it acceptable to throw things at people?
No.
Be damn funny if someday somebody filed suit against Duke U for
insufficient security in light of such horseshit.
Shawn Spence
>> > My reaction is that they're both totally classless. It's six one way
>> > and half a dozen the other as to which is worse. I didn't see the incident
>>
>> Wow. You get the Complete and Total Lack of Perspective Award.
>
>Rob, maybe he doesn't know that Kerrs Dad had just been assassinated by
>the PLO? Only thing I can think of.
Actually, no I did not know that. That is pretty bad. But my major
point is that regardless of the buffoonery, there is no right that
gives fans a license to behave this way at all.
Before long, college basketball fan behavior may be mentioned in the
same sentence as English soccer. Looks headed that way.
John Alexander Thacker
Shawn Spence <spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu> wrote:
:>to throwing *pizza boxes*. Or throwing stuff on the floor *during* a
:>game.
: It is classless to throw things onto a court during a game. It can cause
: injury and definitely causes disruption. Not to mention it is totally
: unnecessary.
His point, you unbelievable idiot, was that the Duke crowd
has _never_ thrown things onto a court _during_ a game.
John
Rob Mac K
In article <slrn46e9c0p...@mcnet.marietta.edu>,
spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu says...
> >>Hee Hee! One of the first exchanges I had with Zippy occurred after a
> >>Duke/GT game in which Bobby Hurley ran into a Malcolm Mackey pick that
> >>nearly knocked Hurley out. Rob, naturally, vilified Mackey as a thug who
> >>was trying to injure Hurley. That's to be expected. What I didn't expect
> >>was for Rob to tell me that if I had done that to him on the playground
> >>he'd have taken my head off with an elbow. Some gentleman, eh?
> >
> >Oh, come on, Mike! Can't you stop posting this kind of drivel and use
> >your time here to make a more lasting contribution?
>
> Too honest for ya?
>
> I, for one, thought it was a very interesting illustration of just what
> kind of person Rob MacKenna is.
Especially since it was a complete fabrication.
Scott Kell
James C. Armstrong wrote:
>
> In article <19980211164...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
> JDunlop <jdu...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>A second shot was attempted. Dave Colescott put up a desperation heave
> >>at the end of the first half. It went in the record books, UNC was
> >>0-2 from the floor, and 0-0 from the foul line.
> >
> >I thought Chicky took two shots (I remember the last second heave, didn't think
> >it counted.)
>
> He had two turnovers in the first half. That's what you remember.
>
> >>Do you recall why "air ball" started with that A-C musical sound, instead
> >>of "Air ball" (Clap clap), mimicing the "Defense" chant?
> >It sounds more sarcastic with the "AIR-Balllll", but I don't recall why it
> >started that way.
>
> We were chanting "BORRRRRRing" at the time Chicky tried the shot.
I read an article in "Discover" a few years back about a professor that
was doing a study on the tendencies of large groups of humans to chant
in the same frequencies. They used "Air-Ball" and "Darr-yl" as examples
to cite what they thought were some inherent natural notes in humans (I
forget the actual musical notes these use). Any musicians out there?
--
---------------------------------
Scott Kell
Chicago, IL
yosdk @ worldnet dot att dot net
Harry
> I read an article in "Discover" a few years back about a professor that
> was doing a study on the tendencies of large groups of humans to chant
> in the same frequencies. They used "Air-Ball" and "Darr-yl" as examples
> to cite what they thought were some inherent natural notes in humans (I
> forget the actual musical notes these use). Any musicians out there?
> --
> ---------------------------------
> Scott Kell
> Chicago, IL
> yosdk @ worldnet dot att dot net
The above natural tones were used in the movie "Close Encounters of the
Third Kind."
Scott Kell
You're right. Repeat the second and third notes of the Close
Encounters string over and over and you've got it! Man, Sam Cassell
must really perk his ears up when he shoots an airball.
;)
Shawn Spence
In article <6bn8j6$i...@news.duke.edu>, WILLIAM GAY wrote:
>Geoffrey Green <gfg...@is4.nyu.edu> wrote:
>
>>When I went there, and to the best of my knowledge before and after,
>>no one *ever* threw *anything* on to the floor during the game.
Doesn't matter if there was a game going on or not. If it was before
or after, then the risk for injury is still present, and it is still
classless. Actually, the risk for injury before the game might
actually be greater, because there are more people on the floor.
--
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Shawn Spence Marietta College Box 970
spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu Marietta, OH 45750
...great common sense and good taste-- meaning thereby...without
originality or moral courage.
Bernard Shaw
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
John Alexander Thacker
Shawn Spence <spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu> wrote:
: In article <6bn8j6$i...@news.duke.edu>, WILLIAM GAY wrote:
:>Geoffrey Green <gfg...@is4.nyu.edu> wrote:
:>
:>>When I went there, and to the best of my knowledge before and after,
:>>no one *ever* threw *anything* on to the floor during the game.
: Doesn't matter if there was a game going on or not. If it was before
: or after, then the risk for injury is still present, and it is still
: classless. Actually, the risk for injury before the game might
: actually be greater, because there are more people on the floor.
Yes, those damn pizza boxes and album covers during introduction
(which are banned now, thank you very much) could give an
awful paper cut.
John
Shawn Spence
da$lhi$1...@news.duke.edu>
Organization: Marietta College
Followup-To:
>has _never_ thrown things onto a court _during_ a game.
Doesn't matter if there is a game going on or not. Still disruptive,
still stupid, still potentially dangerous, and still unnecessary.
--
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Shawn Spence Marietta College Box 970
spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu Marietta, OH 45750
My prayer to God is a very short one: "O Lord, make my enemies
ridiculous". God has granted it.
Voltaire
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Rob Mac K
In article <slrn46epf96...@mcnet.marietta.edu>,
spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu says...
> da$lhi$1...@news.duke.edu>
> Organization: Marietta College
> Followup-To:
>
> In article <6c7tda$lhi$1...@news.duke.edu>, John Alexander Thacker wrote:
> >Shawn Spence <spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu> wrote:
> >:>to throwing *pizza boxes*. Or throwing stuff on the floor *during* a
> >:>game.
> >
> >: It is classless to throw things onto a court during a game. It can cause
> >: injury and definitely causes disruption. Not to mention it is totally
> >: unnecessary.
> >
> >His point, you unbelievable idiot, was that the Duke crowd
> >has _never_ thrown things onto a court _during_ a game.
>
> Doesn't matter if there is a game going on or not. Still disruptive,
> still stupid, still potentially dangerous, and still unnecessary.
And you still have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.
Shawn Spence
>> Doesn't matter if there is a game going on or not. Still disruptive,
>> still stupid, still potentially dangerous, and still unnecessary.
>
>And you still have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.
I'm talking about stupid, classless, and utterly uncivilized behavior by fans that
apparently feel that buying a ticket gives them the license to hurl projectiles at
players and be general assholes.
--
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Shawn Spence Marietta College Box 970
spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu Marietta, OH 45750
(Shawn on Rob)
He has but one principle, that of self-interest. He has only one
desire, the desire to insult. He belongs to the school of lying,
hypocrisy, and cowardice.
E.E. Cinq-Mars
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Harry
> I'm talking about stupid, classless, and utterly uncivilized behavior by
fans that
> apparently feel that buying a ticket gives them the license to hurl
projectiles at
> players and be general assholes.
I feel that if fans throw stuff onto the court, players should be able to
go into the stands, identify those fans, and retaliate.
John Alexander Thacker
Shawn Spence <spe...@mcnet.marietta.edu> wrote:
: I'm talking about stupid, classless, and utterly uncivilized behavior by fans that
: apparently feel that buying a ticket gives them the license to hurl projectiles at
: players and be general assholes.
What about stupid, classeless, and utterly uncivilized behavior by posters
who apparently feel that having an Internet account gives them the license
to hurl stupid remarks at other readers and be general assholes?
John