Poor NCSU
stat monkey
to Sendek.
Valvano said NCSU had problems recruiting since it was least
attractive ACC team in NC. With today's stricter NCAA academic
standards, looks like its hard for NCSU to keep up.
cake_and_...@yahoo.com
they need to buy more dope for their playas
Ar Q
"stat monkey" <tada...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b1048f36-565f-47a0...@v15g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
I don't quite understand how state of North Carolina can support
so many teams. New York is much larger than North Carolina, yet
they can only support one team, Syracuse.
prag
> "stat monkey" <tadams...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
College Basketball became big in NC when there were no pro sports
teams between DC and Atlanta. I think that explains it.
Edward M. Kennedy
> | Look like getting run out of NCSU is the best thing that ever
> happened
> | to Sendek.
> |
> | Valvano said NCSU had problems recruiting since it was least
> | attractive ACC team in NC. With today's stricter NCAA academic
> | standards, looks like its hard for NCSU to keep up.
>
> I don't quite understand how state of North Carolina can support
> so many teams. New York is much larger than North Carolina, yet
> they can only support one team, Syracuse.
Actually NY and NC are about the same size. NY has more
people though and tends to gravitate towards pro sports,
and other than the TWO big east teams, has mostly mid-major
wannabes like Sienna, Buffalo, Iona, Hofstra, etc. The
New York system of post grad public schools (SUNY-City)
tend to be smallish and not big time athletics orientated.
Lacrosse may be another story.
--Tedward
Ar Q
"Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@eio.com> wrote in message
news:gqat1l$i61$1...@gargoyle.oit.duke.edu...
| "Ar Q" <Arthu...@hottmail.com> wrote
|
| > | Look like getting run out of NCSU is the best thing that
ever
| > happened
| > | to Sendek.
| > |
| > | Valvano said NCSU had problems recruiting since it was least
| > | attractive ACC team in NC. With today's stricter NCAA
academic
| > | standards, looks like its hard for NCSU to keep up.
| >
| > I don't quite understand how state of North Carolina can
support
| > so many teams. New York is much larger than North Carolina,
yet
| > they can only support one team, Syracuse.
|
| Actually NY and NC are about the same size.
Well, University of Alaska must be No. 1 in your theory.
Edward M. Kennedy
> | Look like getting run out of NCSU is the best thing that ever
> happened
> | to Sendek.
> |
> | Valvano said NCSU had problems recruiting since it was least
> | attractive ACC team in NC. With today's stricter NCAA academic
> | standards, looks like its hard for NCSU to keep up.
>
> I don't quite understand how state of North Carolina can support
> so many teams. New York is much larger than North Carolina, yet
> they can only support one team, Syracuse.
<
<College Basketball became big in NC when there were no pro sports
<teams between DC and Atlanta. I think that explains it.
The entire Northeast is fairly lame when it comes to college sports.
Much of the interest comes from alumni who went to school outside
the area. It's only partly due to all the pro sports -- the colleges
and universities themselves don't put as much emphasis on sports,
and some of that emphasis goes to regional winter sports.
In fact I think a lot of the tradition for watching college sports at
all goes back to the days of a handful of national TV networks that
force fed sports broadcasting. I remember Thanksgiving in Vermont as
a child -- my granparents got two stations, and it was either Hee-Haw
or Alabama-Texas. You make the call.
I couldn've made the baseball team for Swarthmore. Who the hell
wants to play baseball for Swarthmore? It's not like they were
offering a scholarship, which might explain why the coach felt the
need to cold-call any applicants who could play worth a damn. I
do regret not trying out for Duke -- they were truly awful back then.
--Tedward
Edward M. Kennedy
> | > | Look like getting run out of NCSU is the best thing that
> ever
> | > happened
> | > | to Sendek.
> | > |
> | > | Valvano said NCSU had problems recruiting since it was least
> | > | attractive ACC team in NC. With today's stricter NCAA
> academic
> | > | standards, looks like its hard for NCSU to keep up.
> | >
> | > I don't quite understand how state of North Carolina can
> support
> | > so many teams. New York is much larger than North Carolina,
> yet
> | > they can only support one team, Syracuse.
> |
> | Actually NY and NC are about the same size.
>
> Well, University of Alaska must be No. 1 in your theory.
Yukon RUTSes Alaska.
--Tedward
Kevrob
> "Ar Q" <ArthurQ...@hottmail.com> wrote
It helps to think in terms of media markets. In and around New York
City, there is interest in teams from NJ (Seton Hall, Rutgers) and
CT. Penn State even gets some football love. So, for hoops, Greater
New York cares about St John's, Rutgers, SH, even UConn. There's also
love for Hofstra, on Long Island.
I'm old enough to remember the furor when, in 1970, before buyouts
became common, Digger Phelps broke his contract with Fordham, bolting
to Notre Dame.
Those older than I am can wax about the great Long Island University
teams, or those from the City College of New York.
Football is another story. Syracuse still competes at the "D1" level,
but the days of The Fordham Rams or Army packing the Polo Grounds or
Yankee Stadium are as dead as those structures.
Note that there is no "University of New York" nor "New York State
University." The tradition of post-secondary education in the
Northeast predates that of most of the land grant institutions, and so
we have more, but smaller, campuses.
Those who live near Albany or Buffalo may take their SUNY
standardbearers to heart, but that's a pretty new development.
Kevin
Ar Q
"Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@eio.com> wrote in message
news:gqat1l$i61$1...@gargoyle.oit.duke.edu...
I am really talking about full sports institutions, i.e. schools
playing both Division I basketball and football. The downfall of
Syracuse is because they let UConn and Rutgers join Big East
football. Now New York must support three univsersities instead of
one. The best example is that Ray Rice went to Rutgers. He
originally chose Syracuse. Remember how Syracuse donimated in both
football and basketball before 2000? It won't come back. Rutgers
will be like NCST, never good but good enough to take resources
from Syracuse/UNC/Duke.
Pauli G
> "Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@eio.com> wrote in messagenews:gqat1l$i61$1...@gargoyle.oit.duke.edu...
the problem with Cuse is they have stood pat as that Dome has become
tremendously outdated...and they ran a relatively good football coach
out of town becuase they thought they were better than him...and hired
a nitwit who pancaked the program.
mimus
They gigged Valvano good by changing the rules so that the basketball team
had to do _better_ than would be expected of the general student
population in terms of graduations, GPA, etc., based on high-school
performance and background.
I wonder if they still require that, or whether it was a Valvano special?
(I get this from his most excellent and funny-- if, no doubt, special
pleading-- _First They Gave Me a Lifetime Contract, and Then They Declared
Me Dead_.)
--
The Usenet voice of the Kentucky Wildcats!
(Please ignore.)
_Raw Recruits_ and _Undue Process_ for all,
Welcome to college basketball!
"Ask not for whom the horn honks:
"It honks for thee."
Edward M. Kennedy
> > | Look like getting run out of NCSU is the best thing that ever
> > happened
> > | to Sendek.
> > |
> > | Valvano said NCSU had problems recruiting since it was least
> > | attractive ACC team in NC. With today's stricter NCAA academic
> > | standards, looks like its hard for NCSU to keep up.
>
> > I don't quite understand how state of North Carolina can support
> > so many teams. New York is much larger than North Carolina, yet
> > they can only support one team, Syracuse.
>
> Actually NY and NC are about the same size. NY has more
> people though and tends to gravitate towards pro sports,
> and other than the TWO big east teams, has mostly mid-major
> wannabes like Sienna, Buffalo, Iona, Hofstra, etc. The
> New York system of post grad public schools (SUNY-City)
> tend to be smallish and not big time athletics orientated.
> Lacrosse may be another story.
<
<
<It helps to think in terms of media markets. In and around New York
<City, there is interest in teams from NJ (Seton Hall, Rutgers) and
<CT.
In NY, college hoops is covered by the news broadcast.
In NC, the intro to the news is about college basketball.
Many games are mentioned on the front page of newspapers.
Growing up as a kid up North, college sports were barely
even on my radar.
Things may have changed some what with all the sports
channels -- any sports oriented bar will cover local
games, but generally not in place of pro sports.
--Tedward
Edward M. Kennedy
According to your own theory, how did UConn rise in both sports
then?
--Tedward
Edward M. Kennedy
Do players care about the stadium all that much? It'd be on
the bottom of my list so long as they had one.
--Tedward
Edward M. Kennedy
>> Look like getting run out of NCSU is the best thing that ever happened
>> to Sendek.
>>
>> Valvano said NCSU had problems recruiting since it was least
>> attractive ACC team in NC. With today's stricter NCAA academic
>> standards, looks like its hard for NCSU to keep up.
>
> They gigged Valvano good by changing the rules so that the basketball team
> had to do _better_ than would be expected of the general student
> population in terms of graduations, GPA, etc., based on high-school
> performance and background.
Considering some of Valvano's recruits, winding up in jail should
have been acceptable. (Yeah, I know, that was before...)
Ar Q
Before UConn joined Big East basketball in 1980, UConn was
nothing. Even in the 80's, the good teams in BE are Syracuse,
Georgetown, Villanova and St. Johns. Before UConn joined Big East
football in 2000, UConn had not even Division I football program.
Edward M. Kennedy
I guess my point is this -- if Rutsgers and UConn are ruining
recruiting for Syracuse, how did UConn get so good with 'Cuse
and Rutsgers ruining recruiting for them?
--Tedward
Ar Q
Basketball is quite different from football. Basketball you only
need one or two superstars to carry a team. Since UConn has the
top picks in the past ten years (more so in the past five years),
it is no surprise that UConn is always a contender for BE title
and Syracuse fell to the middle of the pack. That is also why Jim
Boeheim said we (Syracuse) have nobody and we beat them on ESPN
interview after the 6OT game.
Football is another story. It is more a team sport. That is why
all three teams, Syracuse, UConn and Rutgers are mediocre now. In
the past, when NY put a good Syracuse team, they can compete with
most SEC teams.
Ar Q
prag
> "mimus" <tinmimu...@hotmail.com> wrote
Valvano was not responsible for who got admitted to NCSU, because
Admissions does not report the the Atheletic Director (AD) at NCSU.
Admissions reported to Chancellor Poulan who was basically fired.
Valvano got a full buyout. And that would probably would have never
happened but for the accusations about the tutoring program that did
report to the AD.
Pauli G
> "Pauli G" <rior...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think it enters the equation from what I've read. Facilities in
general.
Edward M. Kennedy
Well, the original point was about NCSU and *basketball*,
and then Rutgers was compared to NCSU. Don't get all
FOAD on me.
Apparently you think NCSU and the ACC are not comparable
to Rutgers and the Big East basketball-wise, but the
analogy holds in football (but not so much for NCSU now).
Okay check. Apples and organges.
--Tedward
Edward M. Kennedy
> >> Look like getting run out of NCSU is the best thing that ever happened
> >> to Sendek.
>
> >> Valvano said NCSU had problems recruiting since it was least
> >> attractive ACC team in NC. With today's stricter NCAA academic
> >> standards, looks like its hard for NCSU to keep up.
>
> > They gigged Valvano good by changing the rules so that the basketball team
> > had to do _better_ than would be expected of the general student
> > population in terms of graduations, GPA, etc., based on high-school
> > performance and background.
>
> Considering some of Valvano's recruits, winding up in jail should
> have been acceptable. (Yeah, I know, that was before...)
<
<Valvano was not responsible for who got admitted to NCSU, because
<Admissions does not report the the Atheletic Director (AD) at NCSU.
Oh please. Coaches do the recruiting and have tremendous influence
over the admission process. If it weren't for Valvano, most of his
players are at another university.
> Admissions reported to Chancellor Poulan who was basically fired.
>
>Valvano got a full buyout.
Because he was otherwise a fucking legend.
> And that would probably would have never
> happened but for the accusations about the tutoring program that did
> report to the AD.
The pizza delivery guy and the stolen car had absolutely nothing
to do with it. The long litany of dubious recruits was irrelevant.
The tutoring program had nothing to do with the dubious recruits.
I'm a huge fan of Valvano. That he bent the rules and/or recruited
risky prospects is not in question.
--Tedward
Donnie Barnes
> the problem with Cuse is they have stood pat as that Dome has become
> tremendously outdated...and they ran a relatively good football coach
> out of town becuase they thought they were better than him...and hired
> a nitwit who pancaked the program.
All relatively minor and easy to fix problems in the world of college
football, though.
--Donnie
Donnie Barnes
> Do players care about the stadium all that much? It'd be on
> the bottom of my list so long as they had one.
Not the part of the stadium the fans see, no. They care about the part
that has the pool tables, flat screen TVs, big leather couches, and
most importantly, the food.
--Donnie
Edward M. Kennedy
>> Do players care about the stadium all that much? It'd be on
>> the bottom of my list so long as they had one.
>
> Not the part of the stadium the fans see, no. They care about the part
> that has the pool tables, flat screen TVs, big leather couches, and
> most importantly, the food.
The food?! What about the babes? Wait...we are so screwed.
--Tedward
prag
> "prag" <tadams...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> > >> Look like getting run out of NCSU is the best thing that ever happened
> > >> to Sendek.
>
> > >> Valvano said NCSU had problems recruiting since it was least
> > >> attractive ACC team in NC. With today's stricter NCAA academic
> > >> standards, looks like its hard for NCSU to keep up.
>
> > > They gigged Valvano good by changing the rules so that the basketball team
> > > had to do _better_ than would be expected of the general student
> > > population in terms of graduations, GPA, etc., based on high-school
> > > performance and background.
>
> > Considering some of Valvano's recruits, winding up in jail should
> > have been acceptable. (Yeah, I know, that was before...)
>
> <
> <Valvano was not responsible for who got admitted to NCSU, because
> <Admissions does not report the the Atheletic Director (AD) at NCSU.
>
> Oh please. Coaches do the recruiting and have tremendous influence
> over the admission process. If it weren't for Valvano, most of his
> players are at another university.
>
> > Admissions reported to Chancellor Poulan who was basically fired.
>
> >Valvano got a full buyout.
>
> Because he was otherwise a fucking legend.
Because they basically had nothing on him, except the brohaha over the
tutors, and that was not much.
>
> > And that would probably would have never
> > happened but for the accusations about the tutoring program that did
> > report to the AD.
>
> The pizza delivery guy and the stolen car had absolutely nothing
> to do with it. The long litany of dubious recruits was irrelevant.
> The tutoring program had nothing to do with the dubious recruits.
>
> I'm a huge fan of Valvano. That he bent the rules and/or recruited
> risky prospects is not in question.
Again, Ted, again: Valvano could not admit a student, who got
admitted was clearly not his responsibility.
>
> --Tedward
Edward M. Kennedy
> > >> Look like getting run out of NCSU is the best thing that ever happened
> > >> to Sendek.
>
> > >> Valvano said NCSU had problems recruiting since it was least
> > >> attractive ACC team in NC. With today's stricter NCAA academic
> > >> standards, looks like its hard for NCSU to keep up.
>
> > > They gigged Valvano good by changing the rules so that the basketball team
> > > had to do _better_ than would be expected of the general student
> > > population in terms of graduations, GPA, etc., based on high-school
> > > performance and background.
>
> > Considering some of Valvano's recruits, winding up in jail should
> > have been acceptable. (Yeah, I know, that was before...)
>
> <
> <Valvano was not responsible for who got admitted to NCSU, because
> <Admissions does not report the the Atheletic Director (AD) at NCSU.
>
> Oh please. Coaches do the recruiting and have tremendous influence
> over the admission process. If it weren't for Valvano, most of his
> players are at another university.
>
> > Admissions reported to Chancellor Poulan who was basically fired.
>
> >Valvano got a full buyout.
>
> Because he was otherwise a fucking legend.
<
<Because they basically had nothing on him, except the brohaha over the
<tutors, and that was not much.
More like the last straw. That fact that not one of his players
graduated in ten years was another straw. Multiple players being
the butt of jokes for off-court shenanigans was another pile. Hell,
even Spud Webb's "amphibious" comment was pretty damning of the
"student" part of his student athletes.
> > And that would probably would have never
> > happened but for the accusations about the tutoring program that did
> > report to the AD.
>
> The pizza delivery guy and the stolen car had absolutely nothing
> to do with it. The long litany of dubious recruits was irrelevant.
> The tutoring program had nothing to do with the dubious recruits.
>
> I'm a huge fan of Valvano. That he bent the rules and/or recruited
> risky prospects is not in question.
<
<Again, Ted, again: Valvano could not admit a student, who got
<admitted was clearly not his responsibility.
You keep telling yourself that coaches wanting a player has nothing
to do with it. Had Valvano not recruited them, they don't apply to
NCSU, and if even if they had, many woundn't get in.
It's like arguing sending somone to rob a bank absolves you of the
crime.
--Tedward
prag
> "prag" <tadams...@yahoo.com> wrote
He's absolved on the recruiting issue, IMO. Who ever heard of a coach
who would not recruit a player that his university was willing to
admit because *the coach, not Admissions,* thought he was not a good
enough academically?
Do you actually think that happens?
Edward M. Kennedy
You have things exaclty backwards. The recruiting happens before
the admissions department even knows the kid exists, much less
applies. And yes, coaches do avoid wasting time recruiting kids
that won't even be able to meet the reduced standards for star
athletes, and also kids that are obviously basket cases and will
be nothing but trouble.
A few coaches do specialize in rehabiliting criminals, druggies,
and flunkouts, but some do it with more integrity and success
than others. Valvano pushed it in this department. Calhoun is
now walking on thin ice.
<Do you actually think that happens?
Did you read the UConn article where the recruiters spent most
of their time getting Miles' high school records in order so that
they could demonstrate he was eligible to the NCAA?
--Tedward
mimus
> That fact that not one of his players graduated in ten years was another
> straw.
Of all the players he signed in Raleigh, 86% of them fell into one of
three categories: Still in school, graduated from NCSU or another
university, or playing pro ball (from a pie-chart he used in recruiting).
"If N. C. State had a graduation rate of 24 percent [!] over four years,
and 58 percent forever, where did the fault lie?"
"A report would come out ranking the fifty states in order of their
high-school SAT scores. Lo and behold, my three recruiting strongholds--
North Carolina, South Carolina and Washington D. C.-- 'boasted' average
scores of 836, 838 and 846. The were ranked 1-2-3-- the _lowest_ 1-2-3
in the nation."
"Consider N. C. State's record for overall graduation rate of black male
students. Are you ready for this? In the past thirteen years, there had
been a continual decline in the graduation rate of black students in a
four-year period. Starting in 1977, the rate was 18.2 percent over a
four-year period; by 1988, the rate was 7.5 percent. In 1989, it went
even lower. And in 1990, figures showed that of the 214 black male
students that entered in 1986, only eight had graduated, or _3.7 percent_."
But then at the end came this:
"Dr. Larry K. Monteith, dean of the College of Engineering, was appointed
interim chancellor at N. C. State . . . and . . . felt there should be no
correlation between the graduation rate of the student body and that of
the athletes. He said he would accept nothing less than 100-percent
graduation rate, or at least 75 percent moving toward 100 percent."
It was all plainly a "Get Valvano" movement, in part waged by a local
paper (UTennessee's bane for years and coaches as well), in part by a
faculty offended by his pointing out what a shitty school NCSU was-- not
that he put it that bluntly-- going by performance judged on students'
entering HS GPAs and SAT scores compared with academic outcomes, and
compared with other schools.
And he quotes big John Thompson's ice-cold analysis:
"The biggest con in education is kids saying they were exploited. I'm not
responsible for them getting an education. And as long as I let them
think I am, they won't get it. It sounds cruel, but it doesn't work with
sympathy. If they understand that they are responsible, they'll get it.
I'm the coach; I'm not their mother and father. If the kid doesn't get an
education, it's his fault. He gets the credit, too. I mean, I never met
a coach who told a player to not go to class . . . .
"The biggest problem I see in college athletes is that the kid is never
made responsible for his own actions. And he knows that. And he plays it
like a piano . . . . He knows that regardless of what happens with him,
there is always somebody else he can blame and the public will accept it."
< _Valvano They Gave Me a Lifetime Contract, and Then They Declared Me
Dead_
--
Edward M. Kennedy
I don't disagree with that. In the end he was guilty of very little,
but there *was* a lot of history before then.
> in part waged by a local
> paper (UTennessee's bane for years and coaches as well), in part by a
That had a lot to do with it, and it turned out the recruiting violations
weren't there. But with all the questions and history, NCSU kind of
got backed into a corner. Yes, Valvano was railroaded, but he laid
a few of those rails himself.
The same thing happened to my frat. We were accused of a gang bang
that never happened, and the police and "victim" exonerated the two
bozos involved. But it didn't matter, with the lowest GPA and highest
damage bill and recent probation PLUS showing up on the front page of
the Chronicle and page 52 of the NYT, we were history even though no
one did a damn thing.
Sometimes life isn't fair, but you shouldn't put yourself in position
to get reamed either.
> faculty offended by his pointing out what a shitty school NCSU was-- not
> that he put it that bluntly-- going by performance judged on students'
> entering HS GPAs and SAT scores compared with academic outcomes, and
> compared with other schools.
I don't know a whole lot about the faculty and him.
> And he quotes big John Thompson's ice-cold analysis:
>
> "The biggest con in education is kids saying they were exploited.
Huh? I didn't go there.
> I'm not
> responsible for them getting an education. And as long as I let them
> think I am, they won't get it. It sounds cruel, but it doesn't work with
> sympathy. If they understand that they are responsible, they'll get it.
> I'm the coach; I'm not their mother and father. If the kid doesn't get an
> education, it's his fault. He gets the credit, too. I mean, I never met
> a coach who told a player to not go to class . . . .
>
> "The biggest problem I see in college athletes is that the kid is never
> made responsible for his own actions. And he knows that. And he plays it
> like a piano . . . . He knows that regardless of what happens with him,
> there is always somebody else he can blame and the public will accept it."
Whether you agree with that or not, Valvano recruited questionable
student athletes which helped lead to athletes not graduating. If
they weren't stealing pizzas and cars (off the top of my head),
maybe Valvano gets a fair trial and stays. The university didn't
feel like it had the time or inclination to do that.
--Tedward
prag
> "mimus" <tinmimu...@hotmail.com> wrote
The wiki says:
"Six separate entities investigated Valvano and the NC State
basketball program including the NC State Faculty Senate, the North
Carolina Attorney General, the University of North Carolina Board of
Governors, the NC State Board of Trustees, and the NCAA. None of them
found any recruiting or financial improprieties. However, it was found
that, in his 10 year career, none of the basketball players recruited
by Valvano had ever received a degree from NC State."
Valvano thought that Hugh Fuller ensured that he would have to leave
NCSU:
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/08/01/sports/an-n-c-state-official-backs-book-s-charges.html
Fuller apparently did not have enough to convince the NCAA of
violations, but he lent credibility to book, I guess.
prag
> "prag" <tadams...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> - Show quoted text -
UCONN 2008 Graduation Success Rate (GSR) is 33% vs 10% for
Maryland. Maryland's on an uptrend, they got a goose egg in 2007.
By contrast, UNC and Duke have GSRs in the mid to high 80s.
GSR is the 6 year grad. rate for the most recent 3 year period:
Edward M. Kennedy
I'm well aware that allegations, and not actual facts, had much to
do with Valvano's dismissal. However, these allegations followed
a lot of history, including players selling sneakers. Valvano was
not squeaky clean, and therefore mere allegations were enough.
If it were up to me, V would have coached NCSU till the day he died.
It wasn't up to me, and Jimmy didn't get his wish.
--Tedward
tre...@googlemail.com
that would help you in your way.
With Warm Regards
Trevor Hook
On Mar 24, 3:54 pm, "Ar Q" <ArthurQ...@hottmail.com> wrote:
> "Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@eio.com> wrote in messagenews:gqbl4p$utc$1...@gargoyle.oit.duke.edu...
> | "Ar Q" <ArthurQ...@hottmail.com> wrote
> | > playing both Division I basketball andfootball. The downfall
> of
> | > Syracuse is because they let UConn and Rutgers join Big East
> | >football. Now New York must support three univsersities
> instead of
> | > one. The best example is that Ray Rice went to Rutgers. He
> | > originally chose Syracuse. Remember how Syracuse donimated in
> both
> | >footballand basketball before 2000? It won't come back.
> Rutgers
> | > will be like NCST, never good but good enough to take
> resources
> | > from Syracuse/UNC/Duke.
> |
> | According to your own theory, how did UConn rise in both sports
> | then?
> |
>
> Before UConn joined Big East basketball in 1980, UConn was
> nothing. Even in the 80's, the good teams in BE are Syracuse,
> Georgetown, Villanova and St. Johns. Before UConn joined Big Eastfootballin 2000, UConn had not even Division Ifootballprogram.
Tom Adams
> "prag" <tadams...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> - Show quoted text -
IIRC, the NCAA did confirm the sneaker thing. But it was either minor
or the program was not held to blame, I don't recall which, but no
sanctions.
Valvano said the Fuller allegations took him down. But these
allegations lead to any NCAA sanctions.
Edward M. Kennedy
<IIRC, the NCAA did confirm the sneaker thing. But it was either minor
<or the program was not held to blame, I don't recall which, but no
<sanctions.
<
<Valvano said the Fuller allegations took him down. But these
<allegations [didn't] lead to any NCAA sanctions.
I don't disagree in a certain sense, but it's more like the straws
on a camel's back. Had he been squeaky clean, he probably could
have whethered the allegations until the program was cleared, at
which point he's almost squeaky clean again.
Hell, without the past history, what are the odds that Fuller
prints false allegation or even goes digging in the first place?
Valvano dug a hole, and some asshole pushed him in.
--Tedward
Tom Adams
> "Tom Adams" <tadams...@yahoo.com> wrote
I think Fuller's allegations were mostly true, but the practices that
upset Fuller did not violate the NCAA guidelines. In other words,
Fuller was a crank. He was probably not factual in saying that grades
were negotiated in advance. Even if something like that happened I
don't see how he would have direct knowledge of it.