Left-handed third basemen
Brad Filippone
understand why (extra step needed to turn and throw to first), but I'm
wondering what southpaw has played the most games at this position, and
what their fielding stats for that position are.
Brad
jdunlop
Off the top of my head, ignoring pre-1900 era players, Mike Squires
probably has the most games there. He was an excellent fielding first
baseman, but not a great bat. He started a few games if I remember
correctly, since he was better than most of the third basemen the White
Sox could put out there in the '70s. I know Squires also caught at
least once, if not more (don't have access to B-R.com right now.)
I believe the last lefty third baseman was Don Mattingly, who started a
game when the Yanks had some injury problems (and had a spare first
baseman.) Mattingly should also be the last lefty second baseman
(during the conclusion of the Pine Tar game.)
Roger Moore
If you include all of baseball history, the answer is Hick Carpenter, who
played from 1059 of his 1118 career games at 3B despite the handicap of
being left handed. It doesn't seem to have hurt him too badly, either;
his .853 FP was actually a hair better than the league norm of .849 (!)
and his RF of 3.25 was only a bit lower than the league average of 3.30.
Carpenter is the only "real" left handed 3B in MLB history. There have
been 50 other lefties to play at least one game at 3B, but their career
total is only 597 games, so Carpenter played almost twice as many games as
a TL 3B as the rest of the lefties in MLB history combined.
Of the 51 left handed throwers to play 3B in MLB history, just 9 debuted
after the AL was founded: Hal Chase (1 G at 3B), Milo Netzel (6 G), Duffy
Lewis (1), George Sisler (2), Charlie Grimm (1), Mike Squires (14), Terry
Francona (1), Don Mattingly (3), and Mario Valdez (1). That's just 29
games, and many of those weren't starts, so it's not enough to form a
valid opinion about their abilities. You can guess, though, that their
managers didn't see any of these guys as everyday solutions at third.
--
Roger Moore | Master of Meaningless Trivia | (r...@alumni.caltech.edu)
There's no point in questioning authority if you don't listen to the answers.
Gerry Myerson
"jdunlop" <jdu...@aol.com> wrote:
Mattingly's not quite the last. This was posted to this newsgroup
a couple of years ago:
*********************************
From: dead...@aol.com (DEADBALL)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: 19 Oct 2004 10:52:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Database Query
I've since learned that there have been six southpaws who played either
second, short or third since Mattingly.
1999,CIN,3B,1,1.0,0,0,0,Hal Morris
1997,LAN,2B,1,1.0,0,0,0,Todd Hollandsworth
1997,CHA,3B,1,1.0,0,0,0,Mario Valdez
1995,SEA,SS,1,2.0,0,1,0,Warren Newson
1987,KCA,2B,1,1.0,0,0,0,Thad Bosley
1987,CAL,SS,1,0.0,0,0,0,Mark Ryal
*********************************
As for the original query, when you throw out pre-1900,
it seems the answer is Hal Chase, 23 games to 14 for Squires,
according to this message on some mailing list:
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:28:21 EDT
From: "Edward D. Coen" <EdC...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Left Handed Third Basemen
Here, based on the MacMillan Electronic Baseball Encyclopedia, is a
list of every left-handed third baseman in major league history.
Hick Carpenter, 1,095 G, SYR-N 1879, CIN-N 1880, WOR-N 1881, CIN-AA
1882-89, STL-N 1892
Lefty Marr, 129 G, COL-AA 1889, CIN-N 1890
Roger Connor, 111 G, TRO-N 1880-82, NY-N 1884, 89, 93
Bill McClellen, 58 G, CHI-N 1878, BRO-AA 1885
Willie Keeler, 44 G, NY-N 1892-93, BRO-N 1893, BAL-N 1898, BRO-N 1901,
NY-A 1903-05
Spud Johnson, 44 G, COL-A 1889
Jack Leary, 37 G, PIT-A 1882, ALT-U 1884, CHI-U 1884
Hal Chace, 23 G, NY-A 1908
John Cassidy, 18 G, TRO-N 1882, BRO-A 1884
Ed Pinkham, 16 G, CHI-NA 1871
Mike Squires, 14 G, CHI-A 1983-84
George Decker, 10 G, CHI-N 1884-85
Lip Pike, 9 G, BAL-NA 1872
Marty Swandell, 8 G, BROECK-NA 1872
Milo Netzel, 6 G, CLE-A 1909
Buck Freeman, 6 G, BOS-A 1905-06
Jimmy Ryan, 6 G, CHI-N 1886
Bill Harbridge, 6 G, HAR-N 1877, PHI-N 1883
Jake Virtue, 5 G, CLE-N 1893
John Newell, 5 G, PIT-N 1891
Gene Moriarty, 5 G, IND-AA 1884, DET-N 1885
Jack Clements, 4 G, PHI-N 1887
Billy Redmond, 4 G, STLRS-NA 1875, MIL-N 1878
Bob Addy, 4 G, HAR-NA 1874
Don Mattingly, 3 G, NY-A 1986
Russ Hall, 3 G, STL-N 1898
George Van Haltren, 3 G, BAL-N 1892
Monk Cline, 3 G, BAL-AA 1882, LOU-AA 1885, KC-AA 1888
George Sisler, 2 G, STL-A 1916
Cy Seymour, 2 G, NY-N 1899, CIN-N 1902
John Corcoran, 2 G, PIT-N 1895
Cannonball Titcomb, 2 G, NY-N 1888, PHI-AA 1890
Charlie Eden, 2 G, PIT-AA 1885
Dan Brouthers, 2 G, BUF-N 1883-84
Terry Francona, 1 G, MON-N 1985
Joe Kuhel, 1 G, WAS-A 1936
Charlie Grimm, 1 G, STL-N 1918
Jessie Burkett, 1 G, STL-A 1902
Joe Wright, 1 G, PIT-N 1896
Jake Boyd, 1 G, WAS-N 1895
Matt Kilroy, 1 G, BOS-P 1890
Henry Gruber, 1 G, CLE-P 1890
Fred Carl, 1 G, LOU-AA 1889
Elmer Foster, 1 G, NY-N 1888
Cyclone Miller, 1 G, PHI-A 1886
Sam Thompson, 1 G, DET-N 1885
Tom Mansell, 1 G, CIN-AA, COL-AA 1884
Denny Driscoll, 1 G, PIT-AA 1883
Sam Trott, 1 G, DET-N 1882
Jimmy Macullar, 1 G, SYR-N 1879
Jimmy Hallinan, 1 G, KEO-NA 1875
Here are the post-1900 guys on this list:
Willie Keeler, 44 G, NY-N 1892-93, BRO-N 1893, BAL-N 1898, BRO-N 1901,
NY-A 1903-05
Hal Chace, 23 G, NY-A 1908
Mike Squires, 14 G, CHI-A 1983-84
Milo Netzel, 6 G, CLE-A 1909
Buck Freeman, 6 G, BOS-A 1905-06
Don Mattingly, 3 G, NY-A 1986
George Sisler, 2 G, STL-A 1916
Cy Seymour, 2 G, NY-N 1899, CIN-N 1902
Terry Francona, 1 G, MON-N 1985
Joe Kuhel, 1 G, WAS-A 1936
Charlie Grimm, 1 G, STL-N 1918
Jessie Burkett, 1 G, STL-A 1902
According to baseballreference, Keeler played 17 of his 44 games
at third after 1900.
--
Gerry Myerson (ge...@maths.mq.edi.ai) (i -> u for email)
Gerry Myerson
r...@alumnae.caltech.edu (Roger Moore) wrote:
> Of the 51 left handed throwers to play 3B in MLB history, just 9 debuted
> after the AL was founded: Hal Chase (1 G at 3B)
That's what it says at baseballreference, and also in Neft & Cohen,
but the source in my other post says 23 games at 3rd.
Roger Moore
>In article <e81n0t$a68$1...@naig.caltech.edu>,
> r...@alumnae.caltech.edu (Roger Moore) wrote:
>> Of the 51 left handed throwers to play 3B in MLB history, just 9 debuted
>> after the AL was founded: Hal Chase (1 G at 3B)
>That's what it says at baseballreference, and also in Neft & Cohen,
>but the source in my other post says 23 games at 3rd.
Count me as suspicious of your other source. BB-ref and Neft and Cohen
both derive their stats from the original 1969 Big Mac, which is by far
the most reliable source for this kind of info. In contrast, your other
source consistently misspelled Chase's name, which doesn't do much for my
confidence.
FWIW, BB-ref lists 5 players as having put in time at 3B for the
Highlanders that season: Wid Conroy (119 games), George Moriarty (28),
Mike Donovan (5), and Queenie O'Rourke (3), and Chase (1). That adds up
to 156 games at third, which seems reasonable given that the Highlanders
played 155 games that season. Chase is listed as having played 106 total
games, including 98 at 1B, 3 at 2B, 3 in OF, 1 at 3B, and 1 at P, for
exactly 106 defensive games.
Now consider what it would imply had Chase played 23 games at 3B that
season. It would mean that he had at least 22 games that season where he
was moved from one position to another during the game. Not only is that
unlikely given that no other player on the Highlanders was treated the
same way, it's actually impossible given the numbers. If Chase was moved
from one position to another during the course of the game, there must be
a corresponding partial game at his other position. The Highlanders had
only 6 games that involved defensive substitutions at 1B, 2 at 2B, and 1
in the OF, so there simply aren't enough partial games at the rest of
Chase's positions to account for that many games at third.
chak daddy dollar$
news:e81n0t$a68$1...@naig.caltech.edu:
> If you include all of baseball history, the answer is Hick Carpenter,
> who played from 1059 of his 1118 career games at 3B despite the
> handicap of being left handed. It doesn't seem to have hurt him too
> badly, either; his .853 FP was actually a hair better than the league
> norm of .849 (!) and his RF of 3.25 was only a bit lower than the
> league average of 3.30. Carpenter is the only "real" left handed 3B in
Fielding percentage should be affect by his being left handed though,
should it? Unless he hurried to make a lot of desperate throws to make up
for his delay in turning and throwing.
I guess the range factor would include it when he turns would-be assists
into infield singles. So those stats make sense I think.
Silly Sylvia
fuck off