I realise that third basemen who throw lefthanded are very rare, and I understand why (extra step needed to turn and throw to first), but I'm wondering what southpaw has played the most games at this position, and what their fielding stats for that position are.
Brad Filippone wrote: > I realise that third basemen who throw lefthanded are very rare, and I > understand why (extra step needed to turn and throw to first), but I'm > wondering what southpaw has played the most games at this position, and > what their fielding stats for that position are.
Off the top of my head, ignoring pre-1900 era players, Mike Squires probably has the most games there. He was an excellent fielding first baseman, but not a great bat. He started a few games if I remember correctly, since he was better than most of the third basemen the White Sox could put out there in the '70s. I know Squires also caught at least once, if not more (don't have access to B-R.com right now.)
I believe the last lefty third baseman was Don Mattingly, who started a game when the Yanks had some injury problems (and had a spare first baseman.) Mattingly should also be the last lefty second baseman (during the conclusion of the Pine Tar game.)
al...@chebucto.ns.ca (Brad Filippone) writes: >I realise that third basemen who throw lefthanded are very rare, and I >understand why (extra step needed to turn and throw to first), but I'm >wondering what southpaw has played the most games at this position, and >what their fielding stats for that position are.
If you include all of baseball history, the answer is Hick Carpenter, who played from 1059 of his 1118 career games at 3B despite the handicap of being left handed. It doesn't seem to have hurt him too badly, either; his .853 FP was actually a hair better than the league norm of .849 (!) and his RF of 3.25 was only a bit lower than the league average of 3.30. Carpenter is the only "real" left handed 3B in MLB history. There have been 50 other lefties to play at least one game at 3B, but their career total is only 597 games, so Carpenter played almost twice as many games as a TL 3B as the rest of the lefties in MLB history combined.
Of the 51 left handed throwers to play 3B in MLB history, just 9 debuted after the AL was founded: Hal Chase (1 G at 3B), Milo Netzel (6 G), Duffy Lewis (1), George Sisler (2), Charlie Grimm (1), Mike Squires (14), Terry Francona (1), Don Mattingly (3), and Mario Valdez (1). That's just 29 games, and many of those weren't starts, so it's not enough to form a valid opinion about their abilities. You can guess, though, that their managers didn't see any of these guys as everyday solutions at third.
-- Roger Moore | Master of Meaningless Trivia | (r...@alumni.caltech.edu) There's no point in questioning authority if you don't listen to the answers.
"jdunlop" <jdun...@aol.com> wrote: > Brad Filippone wrote: > > I realise that third basemen who throw lefthanded are very rare, and I > > understand why (extra step needed to turn and throw to first), but I'm > > wondering what southpaw has played the most games at this position, and > > what their fielding stats for that position are.
> Off the top of my head, ignoring pre-1900 era players, Mike Squires > probably has the most games there. He was an excellent fielding first > baseman, but not a great bat. He started a few games if I remember > correctly, since he was better than most of the third basemen the White > Sox could put out there in the '70s. I know Squires also caught at > least once, if not more (don't have access to B-R.com right now.)
> I believe the last lefty third baseman was Don Mattingly, who started a > game when the Yanks had some injury problems (and had a spare first > baseman.) Mattingly should also be the last lefty second baseman > (during the conclusion of the Pine Tar game.)
Mattingly's not quite the last. This was posted to this newsgroup a couple of years ago: ********************************* From: deadb...@aol.com (DEADBALL) Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball Date: 19 Oct 2004 10:52:47 GMT Subject: Re: Database Query
I've since learned that there have been six southpaws who played either second, short or third since Mattingly.
1999,CIN,3B,1,1.0,0,0,0,Hal Morris 1997,LAN,2B,1,1.0,0,0,0,Todd Hollandsworth 1997,CHA,3B,1,1.0,0,0,0,Mario Valdez 1995,SEA,SS,1,2.0,0,1,0,Warren Newson 1987,KCA,2B,1,1.0,0,0,0,Thad Bosley 1987,CAL,SS,1,0.0,0,0,0,Mark Ryal ********************************* As for the original query, when you throw out pre-1900, it seems the answer is Hal Chase, 23 games to 14 for Squires, according to this message on some mailing list:
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:28:21 EDT From: "Edward D. Coen" <EdC...@AOL.COM> Subject: Left Handed Third Basemen
Here, based on the MacMillan Electronic Baseball Encyclopedia, is a list of every left-handed third baseman in major league history.
Gerry Myerson <ge...@maths.mq.edi.ai.i2u4email> writes: >In article <e81n0t$a6...@naig.caltech.edu>, > r...@alumnae.caltech.edu (Roger Moore) wrote: >> Of the 51 left handed throwers to play 3B in MLB history, just 9 debuted >> after the AL was founded: Hal Chase (1 G at 3B) >That's what it says at baseballreference, and also in Neft & Cohen, >but the source in my other post says 23 games at 3rd.
Count me as suspicious of your other source. BB-ref and Neft and Cohen both derive their stats from the original 1969 Big Mac, which is by far the most reliable source for this kind of info. In contrast, your other source consistently misspelled Chase's name, which doesn't do much for my confidence.
FWIW, BB-ref lists 5 players as having put in time at 3B for the Highlanders that season: Wid Conroy (119 games), George Moriarty (28), Mike Donovan (5), and Queenie O'Rourke (3), and Chase (1). That adds up to 156 games at third, which seems reasonable given that the Highlanders played 155 games that season. Chase is listed as having played 106 total games, including 98 at 1B, 3 at 2B, 3 in OF, 1 at 3B, and 1 at P, for exactly 106 defensive games.
Now consider what it would imply had Chase played 23 games at 3B that season. It would mean that he had at least 22 games that season where he was moved from one position to another during the game. Not only is that unlikely given that no other player on the Highlanders was treated the same way, it's actually impossible given the numbers. If Chase was moved from one position to another during the course of the game, there must be a corresponding partial game at his other position. The Highlanders had only 6 games that involved defensive substitutions at 1B, 2 at 2B, and 1 in the OF, so there simply aren't enough partial games at the rest of Chase's positions to account for that many games at third.
-- Roger Moore | Master of Meaningless Trivia | (r...@alumni.caltech.edu) There's no point in questioning authority if you don't listen to the answers.
> If you include all of baseball history, the answer is Hick Carpenter, > who played from 1059 of his 1118 career games at 3B despite the > handicap of being left handed. It doesn't seem to have hurt him too > badly, either; his .853 FP was actually a hair better than the league > norm of .849 (!) and his RF of 3.25 was only a bit lower than the > league average of 3.30. Carpenter is the only "real" left handed 3B in
Fielding percentage should be affect by his being left handed though, should it? Unless he hurried to make a lot of desperate throws to make up for his delay in turning and throwing.
I guess the range factor would include it when he turns would-be assists into infield singles. So those stats make sense I think.
>> If you include all of baseball history, the answer is Hick Carpenter, >> who played from 1059 of his 1118 career games at 3B despite the >> handicap of being left handed. It doesn't seem to have hurt him too >> badly, either; his .853 FP was actually a hair better than the league >> norm of .849 (!) and his RF of 3.25 was only a bit lower than the >> league average of 3.30. Carpenter is the only "real" left handed 3B in
> Fielding percentage should be affect by his being left handed though, > should it? Unless he hurried to make a lot of desperate throws to make up > for his delay in turning and throwing.
> I guess the range factor would include it when he turns would-be assists > into infield singles. So those stats make sense I think.
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