Obscure Stat
sin...@vixvax.mgi.com
After watching the Twins last night I was presented with an interesting
question. Dan Gladden made the first two outs of the first inning prompting
the question...
Has any one player ever made all three outs in one inning?
Does anyone know the answer or know where I might find the answer?
Thank you for the information in advance.
Roger Lustig
Thousands of times. Lots of innings have three grounders, meaning that
all three putouts are made by the first baseman. Lots of other innings
have three strikeouts, which means the catcher gets three putouts
(usually).
In eight instances, one player has made all three outs ON ONE PLAY. Ron
Hansen was the last to do it, in April of 1968; this year, a Phillie
blew a chance at it by throwing to first for the third out...
Many outfielders and infielders have made three outs in an inning.
On one occasion, a first baseman did it without there being a groundout
or a popup. The pitcher let three men on base, and picked them all off.
Only once has a first baseman gone without ANY chances. It happened a
few years ago, with (of course) Sid Fernandez pitching.
Roger
Gary Fletcher
> In article <1991Aug22....@vixvax.mgi.com> sin...@vixvax.mgi.com write
>
> > Has any one player ever made all three outs in one inning?
>
> Thousands of times. Lots of innings have three grounders, meaning that
> all three putouts are made by the first baseman. Lots of other innings
> have three strikeouts, which means the catcher gets three putouts
> (usually).
Funny, but when I read the question in the original post, I thought the
poster was talking about making the outs as a hitter. Maybe he was, maybe
he wasn't. I don't doubt that many players have made out twice in an inning,
(I know it!), but all three outs? They'd have to send 19 guys to the plate
for this to happen. If it has happened in major league ball, I'd love to
hear the details.
---
Gary Fletcher (gfle...@questor.wimsey.bc.ca)
The QUESTOR Project: Free Public Access to Usenet & Internet in
Vancouver, BC, Canada, at +1 604 681 0670.
David H. Thornley
>question. Dan Gladden made the first two outs of the first inning prompting
>the question...
>
> Has any one player ever made all three outs in one inning?
>
an inning, I think the second and third. (As a Twins fan, I assure you
it was a good inning.)
To ask an even more obscure question:
What players have made multiple outs in an inning the most times?
DHT
Natraj Kini
>ro...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>
>> In article <1991Aug22....@vixvax.mgi.com> sin...@vixvax.mgi.com write
>>
>> > Has any one player ever made all three outs in one inning?
>>
>> Thousands of times. Lots of innings have three grounders, meaning that
>> all three putouts are made by the first baseman. Lots of other innings
>> have three strikeouts, which means the catcher gets three putouts
>> (usually).
>Funny, but when I read the question in the original post, I thought the
>poster was talking about making the outs as a hitter. Maybe he was, maybe
>he wasn't.
That's definitely what he meant. I think the game in question was
played a couple of days ago against Seattle when the Twins scored 6
runs in the first inning.
>I don't doubt that many players have made out twice in an inning,
>(I know it!), but all three outs? They'd have to send 19 guys to the plate
>for this to happen. If it has happened in major league ball, I'd love to
>hear the details.
Have 19 hitters ever batted in an inning? I'd like to hear about it
too if it's happened. Even if they had, the odds against the same
person making all 3 outs would be huge.
But depending on the definition of 'outs made', I can see a couple of
ways this could happen. If a hitter hits into a triple play, does he
get charged with 3 outs? Or how about reaching base on a double play
(with 2 runners on and no out this could happen) and then getting
caught stealing? Or reaching base on an error, being picked off,
and then coming to bat and making another out later in the inning.
What is the definition of an out in formulas like RBI/out?
--
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= U. Natraj Kini = UNKempt,UNKind = nk...@lookout.uswest.com =
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Ken Kubey
>
>> In article <1991Aug22....@vixvax.mgi.com> sin...@vixvax.mgi.com write
>>
>> > Has any one player ever made all three outs in one inning?
>>
>> Thousands of times. Lots of innings have three grounders, meaning that
>> all three putouts are made by the first baseman. Lots of other innings
>> have three strikeouts, which means the catcher gets three putouts
>> (usually).
>Funny, but when I read the question in the original post, I thought the
>poster was talking about making the outs as a hitter. Maybe he was, maybe
>he wasn't. I don't doubt that many players have made out twice in an inning,
>(I know it!), but all three outs? They'd have to send 19 guys to the plate
>for this to happen. If it has happened in major league ball, I'd love to
>hear the details.
I think Roger must have been sleepy when he replied to the original post.
Of *course* the guy was asking about a *batter* making all three outs.
I don't think it's ever happened.
How often do 19 (or more) men come to bat in one half inning?
I do recall that Pee Wee Reese reached base 3 times in one inning.
That's probably a bit more likely than going 0 for 3 in one inning.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name: Ken Kubey or QB | Reading, editing or printing of this text
Address: ke...@mips.com | without the express written consent of
Disclaimer: the usual | Major League Baseball is prohibited.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ami A. Silberman
>ro...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>> In article <1991Aug22....@vixvax.mgi.com> sin...@vixvax.mgi.com write
>>
>> > Has any one player ever made all three outs in one inning?
>>
>poster was talking about making the outs as a hitter. Maybe he was, maybe
>he wasn't. I don't doubt that many players have made out twice in an inning,
>(I know it!), but all three outs? They'd have to send 19 guys to the plate
>for this to happen. If it has happened in major league ball, I'd love to
>hear the details.
Didn't it happen in that really strange Texas league game
(The one that was about 56-3) that someone posted about a while back?
--
ami silberman - janitor of lunacy
sil...@cs.uiuc.edu
Valentine
>
>Have 19 hitters ever batted in an inning? I'd like to hear about it
>too if it's happened. Even if they had, the odds against the same
>person making all 3 outs would be huge.
From the Sporting News record book:
Most hits, inning: 3 Done by three people in the NL, one in the AL.
The three in the NL were in the same inning of the same game, of
course.
Two other players in the AL game reached base safely three times in
the inning, and there were two other NL innings where (a total of
four) players reached base thrice.
Most hits in an inning since 1900: 16 Cincinnati vs. Houston,
August 3, 1989, first inning.
Most batters reaching first base safely: 20 Boston vs. Detroit,
June 18 1953.
No stats on players making out, though.
Cheers,
-Valentine
Greg Spira
>In article <1991Aug22....@vixvax.mgi.com> sin...@vixvax.mgi.com writes:
>
>>After watching the Twins last night I was presented with an interesting
>>question. Dan Gladden made the first two outs of the first inning prompting
>>the question...
>
>> Has any one player ever made all three outs in one inning?
>
>>Does anyone know the answer or know where I might find the answer?
>
>>Thank you for the information in advance.
>
>Thousands of times. Lots of innings have three grounders, meaning that
>all three putouts are made by the first baseman. Lots of other innings
Um, excuse me - I could be wrong - but I think he meant offensively (The
Twins scored 6 runs in the first inning that day, so I assume he meant
that Gladden made the first out of the inning when he led off and the
second out when he came up 9 batters latter).
I have no idea whether this has ever happened - assuming of course, that
dps and triple plays don't count.
Greg Andrew Spira
Leads Network News
>
>After watching the Twins last night I was presented with an interesting
>question. Dan Gladden made the first two outs of the first inning prompting
>the question...
>
> Has any one player ever made all three outs in one inning?
>
>Does anyone know the answer or know where I might find the answer?
No, I don't know the answer, but it reminds me of an anecdote. A manager
goes out to the mound to give the pitcher the hook, and the pitcher pleads
with the manager to leave him in : "Come on, I can get this guy out!". And
the manager says, "I know you can; you got him out to start the inning."
=============================================================================
Bob Marshall ^ \\
Lockheed Missiles & Space Co. |L| \\ Marshall's Theorem :
Sunnyvale, CA |M| \\ "2 + 2 approximately equals 5 for
(408)756-5737 |S| \\ large values of 2"
mars...@force.decnet.lockheed.com |C| \\
/ \ \\
=============================================================================
Tom White
>In article <1991Aug23....@cherokee.uswest.com> nkini@lookout (Natraj Kini) writes:
>>
>>Have 19 hitters ever batted in an inning? I'd like to hear about it
>>too if it's happened. Even if they had, the odds against the same
>>person making all 3 outs would be huge.
>
>From the Sporting News record book:
>
>Most hits, inning: 3 Done by three people in the NL, one in the AL.
>The three in the NL were in the same inning of the same game, of
>course.
>
>Two other players in the AL game reached base safely three times in
>the inning, and there were two other NL innings where (a total of
>four) players reached base thrice.
>
>Most hits in an inning since 1900: 16 Cincinnati vs. Houston,
>August 3, 1989, first inning.
>
People were tuning in an hour late and still seeing the first inning!
>Most batters reaching first base safely: 20 Boston vs. Detroit,
>June 18 1953.
>
Ah yes, that epic 17-run slaughter. Also holds the records for
most plate appearances (23) and most batters to face the pitcher
(probably pitcherS, but why quibble) three times in one inning (5).
The NL record for most plate appearances in one inning in this century
is 21, Brooklyn v. Cincinnati, May 21, 1952, first inning.
The Baseball Hall of Shame, vol. 1, provides a few details on these
two games, though pitifully sketchy ones.
The Tigers had lost to the Red Sox 17-1 the day before. They
were trailing 5-3 going into the bottom of the 7th. Forty-eight minutes
later, they were a bit further behind. Boston used 11 singles, 2 doubles,
one homer (doesn't say who), and six walks for the 17 runs -- all earned,
off of three pitchers. The final line score was Detroit 3-7-5,
Boston 23-27-0.
The Dodgers got hits from everyone in the lineup in the first inning
except Gil Hodges, who walked twice. Everyone scored and everyone had
at least one RBI. Ten hits, 7 walks, 2 HBP. This anecdote is included:
Reds starter Ewell Blackwell was relieved by Bud Byerly. Blackwell
showered, dressed, and caught a cab back to the hotel, then stopped in
the hotel bar to watch the game. He was stunned it was STILL the first
inning. Before the inning was over, Byerly walked into the bar too.
Final Reds 1-5-0, Dodgers 19-19-1.
>No stats on players making out, though.
Yeah, I'm disappointed about this. Have to write TSN and tell them
to cobble up a new category.
--
Thomas White, Chipmaker [ The success of the American dream, like the success
Austin, Texas [ of MasterCard and the Republican Party, presupposes
[ the eager and uncritical consumption of junk in all
twh...@mozart.amd.com [ its commercial declensions. -- Lewis H. Lapham .
David M Tate
>too if it's happened. Even if they had, the odds against the same
>person making all 3 outs would be huge.
The following players have had 3 plate appearances in one inning (modern era
only):
NL:
1. Marty Callahan, Cubs, 8/25/22, 4th inning
2. Billy Cox,
Pee Wee Reese,
Duke Snider, Dodgers, 5/21/52, 1st inning (21 batters!)
5. Gil Hodges, Dodgers, 8/8/54, 8th inning
6. Dusty Baker, Braves, 9/20/72, 2nd inning
7. Mariano Duncan
Luis Quinones, Reds, 8/3/89, 1st inning
AL:
1. Ted Williams, Red Sox, 7/4/48, 7th inning
2. Sammy White,
Gene Stephens,
Tom Umphlett,
Johnny Lipon,
George Kell, Red Sox, 6/18/53, 7th inning (23 batters!!)
So, the only candidates for having made three outs in an inning are Callahan,
Snider, Hodges, Baker, Quinones, Williams, and Kell. I do know that nobody
has ever struck out 3 times in one inning, but that's as far as it goes.
(If you're interested, Reese, White, Stephens, and Umphlett all reached
base all three times, and hold the record for times reaching base in one
inning. Stephens is the only one (modern era) with 3 hits in one inning.)
--
David M. Tate | Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning.
dt...@unix.cis.pitt.edu |
Owns more Steeleye Span | --Isaiah.
albums than Chad Jackson |
Charles Stewart
|>
|> I do recall that Pee Wee Reese reached base 3 times in one inning.
|> That's probably a bit more likely than going 0 for 3 in one inning.
|>
Well, actually, the opposite is probably true. Call the probability of reaching base during a plate appearance p. Then, the probability of reaching base three consecutive times is p^3 (p-cubed). The probability of reaching base zero times in three plate appearances is (1-p)^3. Ken Kubey's speculation is that p^3 > (1-p)^3. This is only true if p > .5. So, it would be more likely that Pee Wee Reese would have gone 3 for 3 than 0 for 3 only if his on-base percentage (or his batting average, depending o
n how we're defining things) were greater than .500.
These calculations assume, of course, that one's chance of getting on base at one at-bat are independent of getting on base in the prior at-bat. (It's also based on a more subtle assumption, that the probability of even getting to bat n number of times is independently determined.) My guess is that in situations where a team is batting around (and around, and around), everyone's probability of getting on base is related somewhat to the prior at-bat. (For instance, a pitcher getting shelled that badly is
either deteriorating with each pitch, or, if he's been replaced, the relievers are probably, on average, worse than the picther they're relieving.) Still, the point is that unless you believe that someone's probability of getting on base is greater than 50% *each* time he comes to the plate, then it's more likely the batter will go 0-3 than 3-3.
Charles Stewart
.....
|> But depending on the definition of 'outs made', I can see a couple of
|> ways this could happen. If a hitter hits into a triple play, does he
|> get charged with 3 outs? Or how about reaching base on a double play
|> (with 2 runners on and no out this could happen) and then getting
|> caught stealing? Or reaching base on an error, being picked off,
|> and then coming to bat and making another out later in the inning.
|>
|> What is the definition of an out in formulas like RBI/out?
|>
In a triple play, each individual runner is credited with being put out. That is, assume a hitter lines a shot to the first baseman who steps on the bag to double-off the runner who was at first; the first baseman then throws to second, where the runner who had been at second is "tripled-off." The batter and the twoo runners are given separate putouts.
The second example is a bit more intriguing, and raises another possibility that I raise for someone who knows the scoring rules better than I. It's my understanding that when a batter is struck out, but reaches first on the catcher's failure to catch the pitch, a K is recorded, the batter gets an at-bat, but gets no hit (Q: is it counted as a stolen base?). Now, imagine this guy at first is then picked off at first. Then the team bats around. Now the same guy comes up again and flies out. How many o
uts are credited to this hapless batter? (Even more bizarre, what happens if this batter's previous plate experience is repeated--he swings at a third strike, the catcher misses it again, he makes it to first, and again is picked off at first. Has he been put out *four* times in an inning? It wouldn't surprise me if it is so, since pitchers are allowed to have more than three strikeouts in an inning.)
Valentine
>In article <73...@spim.mips.COM>, ke...@mips.com (Ken Kubey) writes:
>|>
>|> I do recall that Pee Wee Reese reached base 3 times in one inning.
>|> That's probably a bit more likely than going 0 for 3 in one inning.
>
>base at one at-bat are independent of getting on base in the prior
>at-bat. (It's also based on a more subtle assumption, that the
>probability of even getting to bat n number of times is independently
>determined.)
This "more subtle assumption" is also very significant. If the batter
in question makes an out his first two times, that means that *none*
of the other 18 batters can get out, if the batter is to bat a third
time. It is surely more likely that the batter gets on base three
times than it is that 18 specific batters *all* get on base.
Cheers,
-Valentine
Valentine
>
>|> What is the definition of an out in formulas like RBI/out?
>
>In a triple play, each individual runner is credited with being put
>out. That is, assume a hitter lines a shot to the first baseman who
>steps on the bag to double-off the runner who was at first; the first
>baseman then throws to second, where the runner who had been at second
>is "tripled-off." The batter and the twoo runners are given separate
>putouts.
I've never seen it done this way. For RC/27 and similar stats, outs
are usually defined to be AB-H+SF+CS+GIDP or something like that. In
other words, grounding into a double play counts twice. Poor
baserunning (other than a caught stealing) isn't counted at all. But
that might be one way to make three outs in an inning. A forceout, a
caught stealing, and then another batting out. This is certainly
more likely than anybody making three batting outs in an inning.
Cheers,
-Valentine
Jarrod G. Miller
appeared three times in an inning, and I've discovered that....
NO ONE HAS EVER MADE 3 OUTS IN ONE INNING. (Offensively, not counting
DP's and TP's)
NL:
1. Marty Callahan, Cubs, 8/25/22, 4th inning
2. Billy Cox,
Pee Wee Reese,
Duke Snider, Dodgers, 5/21/52, 1st inning (21 batters!)
5. Gil Hodges, Dodgers, 8/8/54, 8th inning
6. Dusty Baker, Braves, 9/20/72, 2nd inning
7. Mariano Duncan
Luis Quinones, Reds, 8/3/89, 1st inning
AL:
1. Ted Williams, Red Sox, 7/4/48, 7th inning
2. Sammy White,
Gene Stephens,
Tom Umphlett,
Johnny Lipon,
George Kell, Red Sox, 6/18/53, 7th inning (23 batters!!)
Let's start at the top. Dave Tate eliminated a couple of people, but
I'll give information on their situations.
Marty Callahan, Cubs, 8/25/22, 4th inning
--Had 2 singles and struck out
--I don't know in what order
--Part of Cubs-Phillies 26-23 game
Billy Cox, Dodgers, 5/21/52, 1st inning
--Ground out, single, hit batsman
Pee Wee Reese, Dodgers, 5/21/52, 1st inning
--Walk, single, walk
Duke Snider, Dodgers, 5/21/52, 1st inning
--Home run, walk, strikeout
Gil Hodges, Dodgers, 8/8/54, 8th inning
--Triple, Double, fly out
Dusty Baker, Braves, 9/20/72, 2nd inning
--2 doubles and a homer (sometime during game)
--don't know order (like, if all during 2nd inning)
--Braves scored 13 runs in the game, all in 2nd inning
--Baker went 3 for 5 that day, ruling out making 3 outs in an inning
Mariano Duncan, Reds, 8/3/89, 1st inning
--Walk, double, fly out
Luis Quinones, Reds, 8/3/89, 1st inning
--single, single, fly out
NOTE: The Reds game was the most difficult one to find info on. I had to
check 3 papers (NY Times, LA Times, Pitt Press) just to find anything
about the 1st inning.
Weird for a 2 year old game.
Ted Williams, Red Sox, 7/4/48, 7th inning
--Walk, walk, ground out
Sammy White, Red Sox, 6/18/53, 7th inning
--Single, walk, single
Gene Stephens,Red Sox, 6/18/53, 7th inning
--Single, double, single
Tom Umphlett, Red Sox, 6/18/53, 7th inning
--Single, walk, single
Johnny Lipon, Red Sox, 6/18/53, 7th inning
--Strike out, single, walk
George Kell, Red Sox, 6/18/53, 7th inning
--double, fly out, fly out
The unofficial n.r.s.b researcher,
Jarrod
===============================================================
Jarrod Miller <jm...@andrew.cmu.edu>
502 Semple Street, Pittsburgh, PA 15213 (412) 681-4580
"All we have to do now/Is take these lies and make them true somehow/
All we have to see/Is that I don't belong to you/And you don't belong to me"
----George Michael, Freedom '90
David M Tate
three times in one inning, only Kell made as many as *two* outs. I guess
that gives us some empirical validation of the theory that, given 19 or
more batters in the inning, each PA is highly likely to be a non-out.
(As if this weren't obvious... Given (say) 21 batters, of whom no more than
three make outs, the odds of all three outs being made by the same batter
are
1 in (20 choose 2)
since we *know* who made the last out, and there are (20 choose 2) ways for
the first 2 outs to be scattered among the first 20 PAs, of which exactly one
gives both of them to the same guy who made the last out.
Ignoring possible outs on the bases, and calling all batters equally likely
to reach base (which is not a bad assumption, given how wildly atypical the
inning is known to be), we get the following odds:
19 batters --> 1 in (18 choose 2), or probability of 1/153
20 batters --> 1 in (19 choose 2), or probability of 1/171
21 batters --> 1 in (20 choose 2), or probability of 1/190
22 batters --> 1 in (21 choose 2), or probability of 1/231
23 batters --> 1 in (22 choose 2), or probability of 1/253
So, we'd expect to see at least 150 people bat 3 times in an inning before we
actually got one to make all three outs. We ain't hardly nearly there...)
Sherri Nichols
<summary of research on 3 appearance in one inning batters>
Nice work, Jarrod.
Sherri Nichols
snic...@adobe.com
Warren Usui
|appeared three times in an inning, and I've discovered that....
|
|NO ONE HAS EVER MADE 3 OUTS IN ONE INNING. (Offensively, not counting
|DP's and TP's)
|
| --double, fly out, fly out
|
Great bit of research, but there is a possibility that this guy could have
gotten out while running the bases.
--
Warren Usui
aard...@locus.com
uunet!lcc!aardvark