Landing Injury - Sunday - Skydive Orange
MPRigging
protect his privacy, made a low turn to final approach at Skydive Orange,
Virginia, landing very hard. He suffered serious injuries to his back,
resulting in profound and probably permanent paralysis from the chest down. He
also broke at least his femur and jaw.
He had approximately 100 jumps made at several area drop zones. He had
completed an experienced jumper participation agreement at Orange in June and
jumped there several times since, but only a few times on weekends. The jumpers
there had not noticed anything remarkable about his equipment, but several said
they remembered him jumping a larger canopy. All were surprised to learn that
he was using a Sabre 170 when he had the accident. His registration information
said he weighs 222 pounds without gear for an estimated wing loading over 1.4.
On previous occasions, he had been counseled for erratic canopy handling and
landing off the wind in groups, but he had not been observed making aggressive
low turns prior to his accident. He had also been cautioned about careless
aircraft procedures, and typically pulled at the lowest allowable altitude.
When he visited, he often arrived late during the busiest times and left early,
leaving little time for anyone to advise him.
On this jump, he was jumping solo from a Twin Otter and exited early in the
pass. He was wearing cutoffs, a t-shirt and sandals a skateboard-style helmet
and smoke goggles. A high-performance canopy coach observed the last part of
his descent. The coach said he approached the field from the crosswind side,
lined up downwind and began a sharp 180-degree turn into the wind very low that
was still in progress when he hit the ground. Another experienced jumper who
said he was watching out of the corner of his eye, estimated the turn at closer
to 90 degrees but agreed he was still completing the turn when he hit the
ground. The trajectory of his first point of impact to where he stopped
indicates he had brought the canopy into the wind before he struck the ground.
He had no obstacles in front of him on the downwind leg, and the winds were
very light and variable. He could have landed straight ahead safely. However,
once he started the left turn, he was committed to completing it or hitting a
large pile of dirt and rocks to his left with probably serious consequences.
Once this jumper started the left turn, he was committed to a bad accident,
either way. The field to his right was also clear and would have allowed him to
stop the turn at any time and land safely.
He was immediately assisted by several medical personnel on the scene before a
helicopter arrived from Charlottesville. He was conscious and talking. But
because he was having increasing trouble breathing, the crew anesthetized and
intubated him before transporting him.
Also, his emergency contact was a friend who didn't have contact information
for the jumper's family. It was several hours before social services at the
hospital could notify a family member.
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>at Skydive Orange,
>Virginia, landing very hard.
> He suffered serious injuries
>On previous occasions, he had been counseled for erratic canopy handling and
>landing off the wind in group
> but he had not been observed making >aggressive low turns prior to his
accident. >He had also been cautioned about >careless aircraft procedures, and
>typically pulled at the lowest allowable >altitude. When he visited,
Ain't that the way it always is? Bounce
and the dz gunnie hens start.....he was a dangerous jumper dance.
>100 jumps
> Sabre 170
>222 pounds
theres the problem...to much canopy & wing loading for his experience
level---yawl quit bad mouthing the boy, you or one of your friends prolly sold
him the damn thing!
He's a para now...quit being so obvious about trying to cover your ass by
laying blame on his youth and iggnorance.
Clearly a failure of leadership at your dz.
175 pushups ;)P
~All living holds suffering
Misery stops when greed stops~
Jerry K.
wrote:
>>On Sunday afternoon, a 24-year-old->jumper, made a low turn to final approach
>>at Skydive Orange,
>>Virginia, landing very hard.
>> He suffered serious injuries
>
>>On previous occasions, he had been counseled for erratic canopy handling and
>>landing off the wind in group
>
>> but he had not been observed making >aggressive low turns prior to his
>accident. >He had also been cautioned about >careless aircraft procedures, and
>>typically pulled at the lowest allowable >altitude. When he visited,
>
>Ain't that the way it always is? Bounce
>and the dz gunnie hens start.....he was a dangerous jumper dance.
>
Seems to me that the dangerous jumper dance (one that you were well
familiar with) started prior to this accident.
>>100 jumps
>> Sabre 170
>>222 pounds
>
>theres the problem...to much canopy & wing loading for his experience
>level---yawl quit bad mouthing the boy, you or one of your friends prolly sold
>him the damn thing!
Not stated where the canopy came from but it's clear by the experience
and the loading that he was in over his head. The S&TA seems to have
dropped the ball.
>He's a para now...quit being so obvious about trying to cover your ass by
>laying blame on his youth and iggnorance.
>Clearly a failure of leadership at your dz.
>175 pushups ;)P
>
I think there's blame to go around: S&TA (hence, the dz) for not
throwing him off before his disregard for various safety concerns
became described as numerous - that's the stuff of dangerous idiots
but the jumper is certainly due a lot of blame for screwing himself
into the ground. Even at 100 jumps he should have known better to try
whatever it is he tried - by the description it seems he was trying to
hookturn with his toggle.
In any case, I wish him all luck and hope towards a complete recovery
and while there is no doubt he learned a serious lesson which cannot
be ignored, I hope the S&TA learned one too.
...bsrp
...jlk
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>>and the dz gunnie hens start.....he was >>a dangerous jumper dance.
>Seems to me that the dangerous jumper >dance (one that you were well
>familiar with) started prior to this >accident.
didn't fit their social perameters I guess.
>100 jumps
>>> Sabre 170
>>>222 pounds
>>
>>theres the problem...to much canopy & >>wing loading for his experience
>>level---yawl quit bad mouthing the boy, >>you or one of your friends cudda
took him under your wing. Sound like the old story of the "Ugly duckling" to
me...Ya know their a little bit different so nobody cares about them?...its a
bird flock thing
>Not stated where the canopy came from >but it's clear by the experience
>and the loading that he was in over his >head. The S&TA seems to have
>dropped the ball.
>
It was a rigger who posted and dumped on the kid so maybe he was involved in
the canopy selection and trying a faint
anyway---->S&TA's are elected by popular vote (which means their prolly not a
horses ass), then serve at the Regional Directors pleasure..that may mean their
go along to git along types but it don't mean they always have to be around the
dz
"It takes a whole village to raise an idiot!"
>Clearly a failure of leadership at this dz
.
>I think there's blame to go around: >S&TA (hence, the dz) for not
>throwing him off before his disregard for >various safety concerns
>became described as numerous - that's >the stuff of dangerous idiots
>but the jumper is certainly due a lot of >blame for screwing himself into the
>ground
>jlk
Reminds me of a saying from around the turn of last Century; "Men try to fix
things, women look for someone to blame for the breakage!" ;->
S&TA? Throwing off is the SZO's job, he holds the lease...Skydiving is an
extreame sport thats fairly safe as long as one stays within the parameters,
The jumper always shares the burden of responsibility no one pushs them outta
the airplane. On the otherhand, skydiving did not evolve to where it is without
pushing the envelope....the kid was clearly pushing his personal envelope I see
it as poor supervision and lack of leadership, newbies shouldn't be assumed to
know...All the old stinky life guards around dz's that supervised student gear
and helped th S&TA keep order have apparently been run off cuz they were more a
safety valve than a profit item...
Their gear was ratty and they were crochity too. Main stream suberbia kin't
deal with that ;->
Jerry K.
wrote:
>>>Ain't that the way it always is? Bounce
>>>and the dz gunnie hens start.....he was >>a dangerous jumper dance.
>
>>Seems to me that the dangerous jumper >dance (one that you were well
>>familiar with) started prior to this >accident.
>
>didn't fit their social perameters I guess.
Yeah, if you want to call it a social concern but it was probably more
along the lines of - stop this <dangerous shit> because you're gonna
fuck yourself up and here's the social angle - you're gonna fuck you
and someone else up and no matter who gets carted off, it's gonna ruin
everyone's day, nevermind your own.
>
>>100 jumps
>>>> Sabre 170
>>>>222 pounds
>>>
>>>theres the problem...to much canopy & >>wing loading for his experience
>>>level---yawl quit bad mouthing the boy, >>you or one of your friends cudda
>took him under your wing. Sound like the old story of the "Ugly duckling" to
>me...Ya know their a little bit different so nobody cares about them?...its a
>bird flock thing
>
>>Not stated where the canopy came from >but it's clear by the experience
>>and the loading that he was in over his >head. The S&TA seems to have
>>dropped the ball.
>>
>
>It was a rigger who posted and dumped on the kid so maybe he was involved in
>the canopy selection and trying a faint
If that were the case then the prudent thing would have been to keep
it quiet than to report it - as if a "feint" on an electronic
newsgroup ever amounted to anything in the real world.
>anyway---->S&TA's are elected by popular vote (which means their prolly not a
>horses ass), then serve at the Regional Directors pleasure..that may mean their
>go along to git along types but it don't mean they always have to be around the
>dz
Which says nothing to mitigate any guilt for allowing dangerous
transgressions to become described as numerous or for the jumper to
think that he could get away with dangerous transgressions with
impunity - especially after being cautioned to get his shit together.
>
>
>"It takes a whole village to raise an idiot!"
>
>>Clearly a failure of leadership at this dz
>
>.
>
>>I think there's blame to go around: >S&TA (hence, the dz) for not
>>throwing him off before his disregard for >various safety concerns
>>became described as numerous - that's >the stuff of dangerous idiots
>>but the jumper is certainly due a lot of >blame for screwing himself into the
>>ground
>>jlk
>
>
>Reminds me of a saying from around the turn of last Century; "Men try to fix
>things, women look for someone to blame for the breakage!" ;->
Which is interesting in that you were the first to start pointing
fingers and positioning blame.
>
>S&TA? Throwing off is the SZO's job, he holds the lease...
While this is true, safety transgressions usually get passed up the
chain through the S&TA up to the one who has the power to throw
someone off.
>Skydiving is an
>extreame sport thats fairly safe as long as one stays within the parameters,
>The jumper always shares the burden of responsibility no one pushs them outta
>the airplane. On the otherhand, skydiving did not evolve to where it is without
>pushing the envelope....the kid was clearly pushing his personal envelope I see
>it as poor supervision and lack of leadership,
Poor supervision, not really - it was noted that he had been caught
screwing up before and cautioned over it. Lack of leadership - to an
extent, he didn't get grounded or thrown off prior to his safety
transgressions becoming described as numerous.
>newbies shouldn't be assumed to
>know...
A person with 100 jumps usually has been around long enough to
understand that it's smart to not push the envelope. But assuming to
know>? It can be assumed he didn't know (or didn't care) by the
nature of the fact that he had been cautioned previously for a variety
of safety disregards.
>All the old stinky life guards around dz's that supervised student gear
>and helped th S&TA keep order have apparently been run off cuz they were more a
>safety valve than a profit item...
Nope, these lifeguards and the S&TA don't get off that easy - if you
admit that that is a function which they perform, yet neither are any
of them required to be at the dz all the time, and to suppose that
they got ran off when it is just as likely that they were doing other
things - nevermind that the jumper had been cautioned and it was
unstated as to whether it was the S&TA or these lifeguards, then they
conceivably failed in performing that function.
>Their gear was ratty and they were crochity too. Main stream suberbia kin't
>deal with that ;->
>
Except for the ones with new gear and less prone to bitchiness -
there's more than a few of those and as far as any one specific
caste's feelings about a person based on their gear and their
propensity to bitch, what - you take a poll? You saying any one
specific caste has the power to render impotent any of or this entire
caste of lifeguards?
It seems pretty clear to me by the description given:
1) Guy under a canopy he had little business flying making several
bad decisions and suffering the consequences.
2) Everyone, from other jumpers to the S&TA to the dzo dropped the
ball on the canopy. No one should be flying a square with that kind
of wingloading at 100 jumps.
3) Guy had done stupid things numerously in the past and had been
told to cut it out.
4) Guy ignored this advice.
5) Armchair quarterbacking - the S&TA and or the dzo (or even the
other jumpers) didn't do enough on the guy's lack of safety concerns -
they only cautioned when it is clear *now* that they should have
grounded.
...bsrp
...jlk
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>>the canopy selection and trying a faint
>
>If that were the case then the prudent thing would have been to keep
>it quiet than to report it
its called gitting in a sucker punch, it really works well if the other guys
already down.
Defaming of injured partys by guilty partys is also a modern tactic in American
buisness and law...its become the american way matter of fact, its called
justification of failure.
>It takes a whole village to raise an idiot!"
>Clearly a failure of leadership at this dz
>I think there's blame to go around: >S&TA (hence, the dz) for not
>>>throwing him off before his disregard for >various safety concerns
>>>became described as numerous
>the stuff of dangerous idiots
>described as numerous
thats common in most dz culture's...building concendous or dz politics is what
it really is. Usually used against someone thats not there to defend their
self.
>a failure of leadership at this dz
>I think there's blame to go around: >S&TA reported by numerous
The sport ain't changed... emotions run high and that called tattling on
someone you don't like...a wise S&TA will go see for theirself, perhaps he was
a fair man or didn't have enough evidence to start the proceedure of
barring/shunning or whatever
>Reminds me of a saying from around the turn of last Century; "Men try to fix
>>things, women look for someone to blame for the breakage!" ;->
>
>Which is interesting in that you
>were the first to start pointing
>fingers and positioning blame.
on the guy that posted on the incident
It was clear he was involved in some way
and trying to make the injured kid look bad. Being a old outlaw...I just
decided to
get to the truth-----hey Orange DZ Doode
WHY YOU RUNNING SOMEONE HURT THAT BAD DOWN SO QUICK? Feel guilty cuz the system
wasn't doing its job
or did you sell him the canopy? Just look at me as a "My Cousin Vinney" style
wreck lawyer o~;)P
Jerry K.
wrote:
>>It was a rigger who posted and dumped >on the kid so maybe he was involved in
>>>the canopy selection and trying a faint
>>>away
>>
>>If that were the case then the prudent thing would have been to keep
>>it quiet than to report it
>
>its called gitting in a sucker punch, it really works well if the other guys
>already down.
But it does raise the question of why bring it up and as you
suggested, what is being hidden when someone is being open?
>Defaming of injured partys by guilty partys is also a modern tactic in American
>buisness and law...its become the american way matter of fact, its called
>justification of failure.
>
>>It takes a whole village to raise an idiot!"
>>Clearly a failure of leadership at this dz
>
>>I think there's blame to go around: >S&TA (hence, the dz) for not
>>>>throwing him off before his disregard for >various safety concerns
>>>>became described as numerous
>>the stuff of dangerous idiots
>>described as numerous
>
>thats common in most dz culture's...building concendous or dz politics is what
>it really is. Usually used against someone thats not there to defend their
>self.
Ah, but in this circumstance, that's where you're wrong. There's dz
politics (that guy's a yuppie - let's not jump with him) and dz policy
- like in this case - (that guy's fucking up - let's tell him) and as
far as not being there to defend himself is concerned, it strikes me
that whether he was fucking up or not, if he was told he was fucking
up then he certainly had the opportunity to defend himself.
>
>>a failure of leadership at this dz
>
>>I think there's blame to go around: >S&TA reported by numerous
>
>The sport ain't changed... emotions run high and that called tattling on
>someone you don't like...
Whether we like someone or not, if they're fucking up then someone's
gonna hear about it which apparently was the case here. The guy had
fucked up in the past and was told about it. Now, even if those
fuckups were nothing more than a foul plot concocted by people who
didn't like him (maybe he was a yuppie or something), said foul plot
certainly wouldn't have any connection with this guy togglehooking
himself into a wheelchair and maybe you're suggesting it was only
coincidence that a checkered past seems to fall in line with what
occured on Sunday?
"Okay guys - this is how we get that damn yuppie. (God, I hate those
fucks!) First we make up a bunch of shit about him in the hopes that
he'll toggle himself out of the sport thus covering up our plot.
Yeaaaaah - the perfect crime!"
>a wise S&TA will go see for theirself, perhaps he was
>a fair man or didn't have enough evidence to start the proceedure of
>barring/shunning or whatever
Procedure? Like we were told - the guy had been cautioned in the past
for previous safety transgressions so it seems to me the procedure had
already commenced and evidence? Such evidence, shy of direct
observation by the S&TA (what the hell - he doesn't have to be there
all the time, does he?) who may well just not like the guy because he
was a yuppie would only consist of word from other people who tattled
on him (because he was a yuppie.)
Oh yeah, there *is* the evidence of this incident - he did manage to
hook himself into an ambulance but I think that evidence came just
little too late for the S&TA to do anything effective. Shunning?
Seems to me there was no shunning going on since the account does
mention that he had been talked to about previous screwups.
>
>>Reminds me of a saying from around the turn of last Century; "Men try to fix
>>>things, women look for someone to blame for the breakage!" ;->
>>
>>Which is interesting in that you
>>were the first to start pointing
>>fingers and positioning blame.
>
>on the guy that posted on the incident
>It was clear he was involved in some way
>and trying to make the injured kid look bad. Being a old outlaw...I just
>decided to
>get to the truth-----
I think the injured kid, nevermind his history at the dz or elsewhere,
made himself look bad by flying himself into a corner and then
togglehooking his overloaded square into the ground.
>hey Orange DZ Doode
>WHY YOU RUNNING SOMEONE HURT THAT BAD DOWN SO QUICK? Feel guilty cuz the system
>wasn't doing its job
>or did you sell him the canopy?
Maybe they posted it in the interest of helping others to avoid such
mistakes?
>Just look at me as a "My Cousin Vinney" style
Hell, if you can be a goombah yankee lawyer a'la Joe Pesci then just
consider me a young southern barrister, a'la Clarence Darrow.
...bsrp
...jlk
Anonymous troublemaker
>>at Skydive Orange,
>>Virginia, landing very hard.
>> He suffered serious injuries
>
>>On previous occasions, he had been counseled for erratic canopy handling and
>>landing off the wind in group
>
>> but he had not been observed making >aggressive low turns prior to his
>accident. >He had also been
>cautioned about >careless aircraft >procedures, and
>>typically pulled at the lowest allowable >altitude. When he visited,
>100 jumps
>> Sabre 170
>>222 pounds
>theres the problem...to much canopy & wing loading for his experience
>level---yawl quit bad mouthing the boy, you or one of your friends prolly
>sold him the damn thing!
He's down for the count GO AHEAD AND KICK HIM, he ain't hurt enuff ;(
See this is typical DZ as family;
D S Y F U N C T I O N A L
If somebody dies....its oh "boo hoo blues brother!" even if ya didn't know the
deceased...truth be known ya prolly wuddn't even jump with the goofy sumbitch
if ya did cuz yer a pack of PHONY ASSHOLES ever last one of you
USPA sumbitchs! sick sick sick I call for a local and federal investigation,
your tactics stink and tell me your trying to hide something PRICKS. I spit on
you ;-Pffft
~don coyote~
Sheep Agent
Rattling the uspa gods expectations
Anonymous troublemaker
>landing off the wind in group
>
>but he had not been observed making >aggressive low turns prior to his
>accident. He had also been cautioned >about careless aircraft procedures,
>and typically pulled at the lowest
>allowable altitude. When he visited,
When he visited? Wasn't a dz local huh...
This prolly tells us he didn't go thru student training at Orange and therefore
wasn't a cash cow...So you feel you can DUMP ON HIM WHILE HE'S DOWN right?
fukking assholes
Didn't yawl crash a twin and kill 9 or 10 people years ago? fukking assholes
ya artta git outta the buisness...Must we call the feds? ;(P
Anonymous troublemaker
was >involved in the canopy selection and >trying a faint away
>If that were the case then the prudent >thing would have been to keep
>it quiet than to report it
If it had been a question asked durning a formal investigation...FINE
These sorry M'fers are reporting an accident and injury of a novice skydiver.
on their DZ. Nobody asked, its highly
suspicious they came out right off the
bat telling how sorry a skydiver he was.
Looks like they have something to hide
by KICKING A KID THATS DOWN!! !! !!
You artta go up there an apply for a job
apparently their ain't enuff sorry M'fers
up there working yer. And yer one sorry little joker even by modern standards.
;-*
Jerry K.
troublemaker) wrote:
>>On previous occasions, he had been >counseled for erratic canopy handling and
>>landing off the wind in group
>>
>>but he had not been observed making >aggressive low turns prior to his
>
>>accident. He had also been cautioned >about careless aircraft procedures,
>>and typically pulled at the lowest
>>allowable altitude. When he visited,
>
>When he visited? Wasn't a dz local huh...
>This prolly tells us he didn't go thru student training at Orange and therefore
>wasn't a cash cow...So you feel you can DUMP ON HIM WHILE HE'S DOWN right?
> fukking assholes
Seems to me that he had trouble flying his canopy consistantly and had
been counseled on that. Seems he flew himself into a corner. At very
least, not to lessen the seriousness of the injury, whatever happened
to your one size fits all King's X of just saying the shit happens ohm
ohm thing if you didin't want to blame the pilot?
Let's take this further - I will now say (without any real information
or hard facts because I don't really know) that he was a S/L student
and you are to explain how it is everyone else's fault but his own and
when we're done with that, you can say that he was an AFF student and
explain how it is entirely his fault and he deserved what he got.
C'mon - Let's explore this weak habit of yours for arriving at snap
decisions and hard judgements based purely on meaningless, beside the
point crap.
Speaking of which:
>Didn't yawl crash a twin and kill 9 or 10 people years ago? fukking assholes
>ya artta git outta the buisness...Must we call the feds?
And on that note, weren't you the one who could rarely ever land his
canopy without crunching into the ground or sliding to a stop and
wasn't your last landing remarkable in that you didn't walk away from
it (for months afterwards)?
You ought to get out of the habit of assessing landings (and the deep
reasons and meanings behind them) and to hell with the feds, reality
is a more relentless force.
...bsrp
...jlk
Jerry K.
troublemaker) wrote:
>>On Sunday afternoon, a 24-year-old->jumper, made a low turn to final approach
>>>at Skydive Orange,
>>>Virginia, landing very hard.
>>> He suffered serious injuries
>>
>
>>>On previous occasions, he had been counseled for erratic canopy handling and
>>>landing off the wind in group
>>
>>> but he had not been observed making >aggressive low turns prior to his
>>accident. >He had also been
>>cautioned about >careless aircraft >procedures, and
>>>typically pulled at the lowest allowable >altitude. When he visited,
>
>>100 jumps
>>> Sabre 170
>>>222 pounds
>
>>theres the problem...to much canopy & wing loading for his experience
>>level---yawl quit bad mouthing the boy, you or one of your friends prolly
>>sold him the damn thing!
>
>He's down for the count GO AHEAD AND KICK HIM, he ain't hurt enuff ;(
Gee - I wonder if you'd be shrieking so if it came out he was an AFF
grad.
>
>See this is typical DZ as family;
> D S Y F U N C T I O N A L
>
>If somebody dies....its oh "boo hoo blues brother!" even if ya didn't know the
>deceased...truth be known ya prolly wuddn't even jump with the goofy sumbitch
Gee - I wonder if you'd be shrieking so if it came out he was a BMW
driving yuppie (or of some other politically incorrect caste).
>if ya did cuz yer a pack of PHONY ASSHOLES ever last one of you
So, if they didn't jump with him it was because he was thought to be
goofy or some such and if they did jump with him, it was all phoney.
What if he wasn't goofy and no one jumped with him? What if he lacked
goofiness and people jumped with him all the time?
>USPA sumbitchs! sick sick sick I call for a local and federal investigation,
Oh, that's right - bring in ignorant bureaucrats to assess reality.
Like that would make someone who's dead, dead any less or phony
skydivers any less phony.
>your tactics stink and tell me your trying to hide something PRICKS. I spit on
>you
Waaaaa!!! Bitch bitch bitch. All you can do is moan and cry. I know
it's counter to how you operate but you might want to get the facts,
you know find out about what you're shrieking about, before waving
your arms around like some soccer mom at her first PTA meeting.
...bsrp
...jlk
Jerry K.
troublemaker) wrote:
>>It was a rigger or gear sales who posted >and dumped on the kid so maybe he
>was >involved in the canopy selection and >trying a faint away
>
>>If that were the case then the prudent >thing would have been to keep
>>it quiet than to report it
>
>If it had been a question asked durning a formal investigation...FINE
>These sorry M'fers are reporting an accident and injury of a novice skydiver.
>on their DZ.
So, it's the fact that they're not trying to bury it or pretend it
never happened that is so suspicious, I guess.
>Nobody asked, its highly
>suspicious they came out right off the
>bat telling how sorry a skydiver he was.
They never said he sucked - they said he had been cautioned on safety
related issues in the past suggesting there was a pattern which was
consistant with what ultimately resulted in him being carted out of
there.
>Looks like they have something to hide
>by KICKING A KID THATS DOWN!! !! !!
So, you don't find any counter relevations towards how he was so safe,
heads, up, and full of ability by others that might know him not
being presented here equally suspicious?
>You artta go up there an apply for a job
>apparently their ain't enuff sorry M'fers
>up there working yer.
No, my sin is arguing a different spin against a spin which springs
from an imagination solely utilized to conviently make one feel better
about having once screwed himself out of the sport.
>And yer one sorry little joker even by modern standards.
Hell, my spin which springs from an imagination solely utilized to
yank your chain is no more irrelevant than yours.
...bsrp
...jlk
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>>it really is. Usually used against >>someone thats not there to defend their
>The sport ain't changed... emotions run >high/death and injury are always
>somebody elses fault
>Whether we like someone or not, if >they're fucking up then someone's
>gonna hear about it which apparently >was the case here. The guy had
>fucked up in the past and was told about >it. I think the injured kid,
nevermind his >dz history made himself look bad by >flying himself into a
corner and then >toggle hooking his overloaded square into >the ground
Oh yeah I've seen it before, light or no winds kids are taught to follow the
last direction the wind sock showed before it started just hanging... then
some yuppie sumbitch comes in first, hooks and changes the traffic pattern,
studda looking at the windsock the rest of the assholes follow in on the
hookers dirrection...The kid gets blamed for not following the traffic pattern
so he goes out and practices hooks and gits in further trouble.
(((LACK OF LEADERSHIP)))
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>>>> Sabre 170
>>>>222 pound
>He's down for the count GO AHEAD AND KICK HIM, he ain't hurt enuff ;(
>
>Gee - I wonder if you'd be shrieking so if it came out he was an AFF
>grad.
Nah but the Sorry M'fer at Orange running him down is prolly a AFF/JM ;)P
SkydiverRick
Jerry K.
wrote:
>>>dz politics is what
>>>it really is. Usually used against >>someone thats not there to defend their
>>>self. a failure of leadership at this dz
>>The sport ain't changed... emotions run >high/death and injury are always
>>somebody elses fault
>
>>Whether we like someone or not, if >they're fucking up then someone's
>>gonna hear about it which apparently >was the case here. The guy had
>>fucked up in the past and was told about >it. I think the injured kid,
>nevermind his >dz history made himself look bad by >flying himself into a
>corner and then >toggle hooking his overloaded square into >the ground
>
>Oh yeah I've seen it before, light or no winds kids are taught to follow the
>last direction the wind sock showed before it started just hanging...
No, in that case people are instructed to note the little streamers
which blow in lighter winds but more importantly than that, to land in
the direction that everyone else is landing to avoid collisions. This
guy just flew himself into a corner and was left with the choice of
flying into some hard debris or turning low.
>then
>some yuppie sumbitch comes in first, hooks and changes the traffic pattern,
Actually, that first guy down is setting the traffic pattern -
standard on no wind days.
>studda looking at the windsock the rest of the assholes follow in on the
>hookers dirrection...
Say the windsock is limp but a breeze picks up counter or opposite to
the last direction the sock is pointing but not enough to move the
sock. Smart people check the windsock before they go up and get a
clue about the winds (as best they can) on what direction it's
pointing as they set up to set up to land - in fact they tell you
about this good idea when you're a student (AFF and S/L alike). If
the hooker (or anyone first down) sets the direction, that direction
it will be but the first guy down will catch some shit if he sets up
not into any wind or breeze, no matter the direction of the windsock.
>The kid gets blamed for not following the traffic pattern
>so he goes out and practices hooks and gits in further trouble.
>(((LACK OF LEADERSHIP)))
>
Ah, cause and effect - it's so clear! All the time when people screw
up the traffic pattern and get told about it, their only recourse is
to go out and practice their hookturns which of course, results in
further troubles. (Gawd)
No, this guy apparently flew himself into a corner, further sharpened
by his jumping an overloaded square. I don't know the facts of why he
was allowed to jump that canopy but it seems to me the S&TA and the
other jumpers (including the old, experienced, grizzled veterans)
should have convinced him not to but damned if the guy is not without
blame himself for continuing a pattern of recklessness. It caught up
with him, and to an extent all of them, is all.
How would this be spun differently if this guy was jumping an
elliptical while wearing a fullface and booties after graduating AFF?
Would you be so charitable for the injured? I think not which says
much more about you than it does any perceived politically incorrect
"trappings of affluence."
...bsrp
...jlk
Jerry K.
wrote:
>>100 jumps
>>>>> Sabre 170
>>>>>222 pound
>(((((UNSAFE JUMPER))))
>>He's down for the count GO AHEAD AND KICK HIM, he ain't hurt enuff ;(
>>
>>Gee - I wonder if you'd be shrieking so if it came out he was an AFF
>>grad.
>
>Nah but the Sorry M'fer at Orange running him down is prolly a AFF/JM ;)P
>
Quite possibly an AFF/JM who learned to jump via S/L.
...bsrp
...jlk
Jerry K.
Careful Rick - don't make eye contact with him - he's prone to ball
his shit up and hurl it through the bars.
And for God's sake, stay upwind of him.
...bsrp
...jlk
MO SKYPIGS
>bad decisions and suffering the consequences.
I agree!
>2) Everyone, from other jumpers to the S&TA to the dzo dropped the
>ball on the canopy. No one should be flying a square with that kind
>of wingloading at 100 jumps.
Lets' See, HHUUMMMM Adult, C license qualified jumper with his own equipment,
and everyone else dropped the ball? Did they sell him the gear? or did Santa
bring it to him?
>3) Guy had done stupid things numerously in the past and had been
>told to cut it out.
Did he understand English?
>4) Guy ignored this advice.
You answered my question!
>5) Armchair quarterbacking - the S&TA and or the dzo (or even the
>other jumpers) didn't do enough on the guy's lack of safety concerns -
>they only cautioned when it is clear *now* that they should have
>grounded.
You can lead any horses ass to the water, "They" are required to make the
decision to drink. And as usual in these situations Darwin makes a call, and
all the others participants in the sport get sent the bill.
Tom Dolphin, D-6919
skydiving rec
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
what does the above verse say to you
boy? Is their anybody left at the dz's around Houston with a IQ over 2? ;)P
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>>>>>> Sabre 170
>>>>>>222 pound
>>(((((UNSAFE JUMPER))))
>>>He's down for the count GO AHEAD AND KICK HIM, he ain't hurt enuff ;(
>>>
>>>Gee - I wonder if you'd be shrieking so if it came out he was an AFF
>>>grad.
>>
>>Nah but the Sorry M'fer at Orange running him down is prolly a AFF/JM ;)P
>>
>
>Quite possibly an AFF/JM who learned to jump via S/L.
>
>...bsrp
>...jlk
>
>
>
JM's
lately! o~;->
RUSSELL HAYSLETT
light glossing over as you usually get, and you ask over and over for more
information.So now you bash the hell out of DZ. By stating the mistakes he
made and his inability to hang out and take advice and criticism and posting
this fact will allow others the opportunity to learn from this before they
and their families are put in the same position as he and his family are
now.
"MPRigging" <mpri...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030722072839...@mb-m26.aol.com...
Anonymous troublemaker
>WTF; They gave you all of the information right up front. Instead of a
>light glossing over as you usually get, and you ask over and over for more
>information.So now you bash the hell out of DZ
Yuh I kin't stand a buncha trashy Mfers!
>By stating the mistakes he
>made and his inability to hang out and >take advice and criticism and posting
>this fact will allow others
to know of your lack of tact and grace...yawl are yankee's I take it?
>"MPRigging"<------Is that the trashy mfer that sold the kid that canopy he
augered in? Ya artta be investigated for running a sloppy dz...didn't yawl kill
some skydivers in a plane crash cuz yew didn't put enuff fuel in years ago? Ya
need to have your ticket to transport people to altitude pulled.
Being so quick to dump on this kid without being asked kinda tells me your
hiding something up at Orange...say didn't yawl kill a load of skydivers once?
;-Pfffft
Jerry K.
>>1) Guy under a canopy he had little business flying making several
>>bad decisions and suffering the consequences.
>
>I agree!
>
>>2) Everyone, from other jumpers to the S&TA to the dzo dropped the
>>ball on the canopy. No one should be flying a square with that kind
>>of wingloading at 100 jumps.
>
>Lets' See, HHUUMMMM Adult, C license qualified jumper with his own equipment,
>and everyone else dropped the ball? Did they sell him the gear? or did Santa
>bring it to him?
Exactly - the pilot is responsible. That said, and I'm not saying it
didn't happen - just that he was jumping a square loaded at 1.6 with
around a hundred jumps, most S&TA's as well as fellow jumpers with a
clue would be aghast at someone doing that, nevermind the ugly
landings which I expect occurred more often than not - they should
have strongly urged him to be more conservative. Perhaps they did but
just the same, he was up under that canopy, flew himself into a
corner, and suffered a consequnce that *might* have been different
under a more conservative canopy. Beyond, given that the account
states that previous safety infractions were described as numerous, he
should have been grounded or thrown off when his screwups became
numerous.
>
>>3) Guy had done stupid things numerously in the past and had been
>>told to cut it out.
>
>Did he understand English?
Unknown. Not sure if what he was told was in English either.
>
>>4) Guy ignored this advice.
>
>You answered my question!
And got what usually comes of ignoring good advice.
>
>>5) Armchair quarterbacking - the S&TA and or the dzo (or even the
>>other jumpers) didn't do enough on the guy's lack of safety concerns -
>>they only cautioned when it is clear *now* that they should have
>>grounded.
>
>You can lead any horses ass to the water, "They" are required to make the
>decision to drink. And as usual in these situations Darwin makes a call, and
>all the others participants in the sport get sent the bill.
>
I hear ya Tom and I agree but had I been the S&TA, I expect I never
would have allowed safety disregards to ever be described as numerous
and adult C license or not, people with 100 jumps should not be
regularely jumping squares loaded at 1.6. I'm not saying the pilot
wasn't at fault, far from it - but 1) If he had been thrown off for
safety violations then it *might* not have happened and 2) had he been
grounded from flying a square loaded at 1.6, he *might* not have flown
himself into the corner which he did.
It's a fine line between maintaining safety and becoming gestapo. The
numerous safety screwups is an easy call as is 100 jump wonders
loading squares at 1.6.
No question.
...bsrp
...jlk
JimBo
>From: "RUSSELL HAYSLETT"
>
>WTF; They gave you all of the information right up front. Instead of a
>light glossing over as you usually get, and you ask over and over for more
>information.So now you bash the hell out of DZ.
Russell.....its Snuffy.....consider the source.
Jim D-10154
funjumper and hoe.
Man small... why fall ? Skies call... thats all.
Anonymous troublemaker
>
>Jim D-10154
>funjumper and hoe.
thats right, unlike your skydive orange friend...I'm a high born man from the
south...doncha ever forgit it boy! ;)P
Jerry K.
wrote:
>>"SkydiverRick"
>
>>S&TA's are appointed.
>>
>>
>>> anyway---->S&TA's are elected by popular vote (which means their
>>> prolly not a horses ass), then serve at the Regional Directors pleasure..
>>
>>
>>serve at the Regional Directors pleasure..
>
>what does the above verse say to you
>boy? Is their anybody left at the dz's around Houston with a IQ over 2? ;)P
>
>
I didn't write that - Rick did. Pay attention.
That said, Rick's right (though he's damned for having the misfortune
of having me agree with him).
They are appointed, not voted in via a popularity contest - though,
how well they work and play with others is sometimes part of the
equation. As far as the Regionals Directors are concerned - they get
the reports. If the S&TA's do the job and don't screw up too bad,
well that's at the Regional Director's pleasure.
You act like people actually vote for the DZ's S&TA. Hell, maybe they
do but I've never seen it, let alone voted in an S&TA election.
Now, tell us how S&TA's being voted in by popular vote had any impact
in bringing about or perhaps could have averted the accident at Orange
where a guy was injured in a landing.
...bsrp
...jlk
Anonymous troublemaker
>WTF; They gave you all of the >information right up front. Instead of a
>light glossing over as you usually get, >and you ask over and over
it ain't asking skumbag...I'm just pointing out how trashy it is!
>Also, his emergency contact was a friend >who didn't have contact
>information
>for the jumper's family. It was several >hours before social services at
>the hospital could notify a family >member.
Glad he had family somewhere cuz its growing ever apparent Skydive Orange
ain't family! ;-Pfffft
JimBo
>>Russell.....its Snuffy.....consider the source.
>>
>>Jim D-10154
>thats right, unlike your skydive orange friend...I'm a high born man from the
>south...and completely full of shit.
>doncha ever forgit it boy!
Jim D-10154
funjumper and hoe.
Jerry K.
wrote:
>>>100 jumps
>>>>>>> Sabre 170
>>>>>>>222 pound
>>>(((((UNSAFE JUMPER))))
>>>>He's down for the count GO AHEAD AND KICK HIM, he ain't hurt enuff ;(
>>>>
>>>>Gee - I wonder if you'd be shrieking so if it came out he was an AFF
>>>>grad.
>>>
>>>Nah but the Sorry M'fer at Orange running him down is prolly a AFF/JM ;)P
>>>
>>
>>Quite possibly an AFF/JM who learned to jump via S/L.
>>
>>...bsrp
>>...jlk
>>
>>
>>
>Aff grad was my first choice but I ain't received any hade mail from the AFF
>JM's
>lately!
Of course. The sorry M'fer at Orange, without a doubt, jumps in
booties, a fullface, audible, Racer or Reflex, small Xbraced
elliptical, and let's see...what else? Some other politically
incorrect trait which only a person who would run down another
skydiver by stating facts would possess...hmmm...I'll bet he has more
jumps and more time in the sport with you. That would be about right,
I think.
Sorry M'fer.
...bsrp
...jlk
RUSSELL HAYSLETT
southerner. Proud? Anonymous, that doesn't sound proud to me, I must have
made a mistake. Kind of like the terrorist who have such a noble cause and
are so proud to die for what!? Yet they cover heir heads and faces with
rags. Looks more like shame than pride to me. But that is just my opinion,
and I could be wrong.
"Anonymous troublemaker" <afan...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030722212228...@mb-m26.aol.com...
Tom B
"MO SKYPIGS" <mosk...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030722202903...@mb-m10.aol.com...
You know Tom, I want to lean your direction. He is an adult. But this was
not a isolated issue. Consider:
Low time skydiver.
History of erratic canopy flying
Landing off wind
Low pulls
Wing loading beyond his experience
Careless aircraft procedures
Didn't seek training, or make himself available for it
Snuffy was not armchair quarterbacking. He was using this tragedy to make a
point about what should be done tomorrow, just as incident reports does all
too often. I agree that you can't make a horse drink or a force skydiver to
make good choices in the air. But as a DZO or S&TA you can damn sure ground
him, and not expose other jumpers to risk from his actions, and not expose
the DZ to the problems that major accidents bring along. At least to the
point of requiring mandatory training on his observed problems. I suspect a
lot of people now wish they had..Grounding a jumper is sometimes the
greatest favor you can give him. And reminding others that it needs to
happen, is part of that.
Tom B
>
>
> skydiving rec
>
Anonymous troublemaker
>I take it you have something against >yankees. So you must be a proud
>southerner.
not really...Their are many white trash in the south also, I generally take
people as individuals but yew threw your hand in with MPRigging the originator
of the graceless post.
> Kind of like the terrorist who have such >a noble cause and
>are so proud to die for what!? Yet they >cover heir heads and faces with
>rags. Looks more like shame than pride >to me. But that is just my opinion,
sorry, white trash and kids under 60 arn't allowed to have an opinion in my
presence ya fukking idiot ;)P
Anonymous troublemaker
>Quite possibly an AFF/JM who learned >to jump via S/L.
>...jlk
>Aff grad was my first choice but I ain't received any hade mail from the AFF
>>JM's lately!
>Of course. The sorry M'fer at Orange, without a doubt, jumps in
>booties, a fullface, audible, Racer or Reflex, small Xbraced
>elliptical, and let's see...what else?
>politically incorrect
politically correct is now considered amungst the white trash....lets see
booties, fullface, Racer or Reflex yup
that's their general discription o~;>
Anonymous troublemaker
>serve at the Regional Directors pleasure..
>>
>>what does the above verse say to you
>>boy? Is their anybody left at the dz's around Houston with a IQ over 2?
>I didn't write that - Rick did. Pay attention.
His id quote was in there, I wuz insulting him personelly and the southern GU
in general.
>accident at Orange
>where a guy was injured in a landing.
Yuh from the information in the post it looks like if your a novice and bleed
on
skydive oranges grass, their gonna dump on you for cratering! 0~;->
Anonymous troublemaker
>
>You know Tom, I want to lean your direction. He is an adult. But this was
>not a isolated issue. Consider:
>
>Low time skydiver.
>History of erratic canopy flying
>Landing off wind
>Low pulls
>Wing loading beyond his experience
>Careless aircraft procedures
>Didn't seek training, or make himself available for it
>
>Snuffy was not armchair quarterbacking. He was using this tragedy to make a
>point about what should be done tomorrow, just as incident reports does all
>too often. I agree that you can't make a horse drink or a force skydiver to
>make good choices in the air. But as a DZO or S&TA you can damn sure ground
>him, and not expose other jumpers to risk from his actions, and not expose
>the DZ to the problems that major accidents bring along. At least to the
>point of requiring mandatory training on his observed problems. I suspect a
>lot of people now wish they had..Grounding a jumper is sometimes the
>greatest favor you can give him. And reminding others that it needs to
>happen, is part of that.
>
>Tom B
>
>>
>>
>> skydiving rec
oooooooooRah...D-6919 has a point tom...leadership in the sport and at the big
dz level is to hard, easier to let them bonce then blame them while they lole
around in ICCU. o~;)
Jerry K.
troublemaker) wrote:
>>Russell.....its Snuffy.....consider the source.
>>
>>Jim D-10154
>>funjumper and hoe.
>
>thats right, unlike your skydive orange friend...I'm a high born man from the
>south...doncha ever forgit it boy! ;)P
But not from Texas which is a class unto itself.
...bsrp
...jlk
Jerry K.
troublemaker) wrote:
So, what would you say if he graduated S/L, jumped without booties in
a frap while wearing an old Vector or Hog?
...bsrp
...jlk
Anonymous troublemaker
>>>
>>>Jim D-10154
>thats right, unlike your skydive orange friend...I'm a high born man from the
>>south...doncha ever forgit it boy! ;)P
>But not from Texas which is a class unto itself.
>
Big Springs suceeded from Texas? ;)P
Jerry K.
troublemaker) wrote:
>>"RUSSELL HAYSLETT"
>>I take it you have something against >yankees. So you must be a proud
>>southerner.
>
>not really...Their are many white trash in the south also, I generally take
>people as individuals but yew threw your hand in with MPRigging the originator
>of the graceless post.
Grace. You, the adjudicator of grace. The mind boggles. So, since
you take people as individuals, how about all those AFF grads or even
those white trash and under 60 types?
>
>> Kind of like the terrorist who have such >a noble cause and
>>are so proud to die for what!? Yet they >cover heir heads and faces with
>>rags. Looks more like shame than pride >to me. But that is just my opinion,
>
>sorry, white trash and kids under 60 arn't allowed to have an opinion in my
>presence ya fukking idiot ;)P
But I thought you took people, all people, even white trash and people
under 60 as individuals.
...bsrp
...jlk
Anonymous troublemaker
>>>booties, a fullface, audible, Racer or Reflex, small Xbraced
>>>elliptical, and let's see...what else?
>>>politically incorrect
>>
>>politically correct is now considered amungst the white trash....lets see
>>booties, fullface, Racer or Reflex yup
>>that's their general discription o~;>
>
>So, what would you say if he graduated S/L, jumped without booties in
>a frap while wearing an old Vector or Hog?
>
>...bsrp
>...jlk
>
>
young mainstream idiot! o~;)P
Jerry K.
troublemaker) wrote:
>(see last few sentences of post for info)
>
>>serve at the Regional Directors pleasure..
>>>
>>>what does the above verse say to you
>>>boy? Is their anybody left at the dz's around Houston with a IQ over 2?
>
>>I didn't write that - Rick did. Pay attention.
>
>His id quote was in there, I wuz insulting him personelly and the southern GU
>in general.
>
>>accident at Orange
>>where a guy was injured in a landing.
>
>Yuh from the information in the post it looks like if your a novice and bleed
>on
>skydive oranges grass, their gonna dump on you for cratering! 0~;->
I don't know why I didn't think of it before this but when you
cratered in Beaumont and they told you to never come back, I guess
they didn't dump on you while you were in the hospital but were very
up front and supportive by not posting the relevant facts and by
covering the details up so people wouldn't be able to learn from your
mistakes so quickly in such a fashion?
Zing! I smell brain burn.
...bsrp
...jlk
RUSSELL HAYSLETT
information
> for the jumper's family. It was several hours before social services at
> hospital could notify a family member.
Anonymous troublemaker
>>>where a guy was injured in a landing.
>>
>>Yuh from the information in the post it looks like if your a novice and
>bleed
>>on
>>skydive oranges grass, their gonna dump on you for cratering! 0~;->
>
>I don't know why I didn't think of it before this but when you
>cratered in Beaumont and they told you to never come back, I guess
>they didn't dump on you while you were in the hospital but were very
>up front and supportive by not posting the relevant facts and by
>covering the details up so people wouldn't be able to learn from your
>mistakes so quickly in such a fashion?
>
>Zing! I smell brain burn.
>
>...bsrp
>...jlk
>
>
Jerry K.
troublemaker) wrote:
>>Of course. The sorry M'fer at Orange, >without a doubt, jumps in
>>>>booties, a fullface, audible, Racer or Reflex, small Xbraced
>>>>elliptical, and let's see...what else?
>>>>politically incorrect
>>>
>>>politically correct is now considered amungst the white trash....lets see
>>>booties, fullface, Racer or Reflex yup
>>>that's their general discription o~;>
>>
>>So, what would you say if he graduated S/L, jumped without booties in
>>a frap while wearing an old Vector or Hog?
>>
>>...bsrp
>>...jlk
>>
>>
>Nope...the last type you just described wouldn't hook into the ground like a
>young mainstream idiot!
So, if we take the same person and he hooks himself into the ground,
how would the training program he was trained in, what was or what was
not on his feet, and what was or was not on his back change the fact
that he hooked into the ground like a mainstream idiot or any other
idiot from some other caste?
This is kind of like throwing rocks for dogs to chase. You throw and
they go get it, you throw again and they get it again, you fake like
you're throwing and they try to go get it.
...bsrp
...jlk
JimBo
>From: afan...@aol.com
>>So, what would you say if he graduated S/L, jumped without booties in
>>a frap while wearing an old Vector or Hog?
>Nope...the last type you just described wouldn't hook into the ground like a
>young mainstream idiot! o~;)P
>
shows how much you know.
ive been watching them do it for over 20 years.
the parachutes just werent as fast...but they still hooked 'em in..
Jim D-10154
funjumper and hoe.
Jerry K.
troublemaker) wrote:
>>Russell.....its Snuffy.....consider the source.
>>>>
>>>>Jim D-10154
>
>>thats right, unlike your skydive orange friend...I'm a high born man from the
>>>south...doncha ever forgit it boy! ;)P
>
>>But not from Texas which is a class unto itself.
>>
>
>Big Springs suceeded from Texas? ;)P
Maybe the one in Arkansas but the most that place had to do with Texas
was it was once part of the same lands included in some transaction
with the French years ago. Wait - the Louisiana one. I don't think
there was a Texas one though some of what is now called Texas was
included in the deal.
...bsrp
...jlk
Jerry K.
>>Subject: Re: - Sunday - Skydive Orange/Sorry COVER YOUR ASS M'fers
>>From: afan...@aol.com
>
>>>So, what would you say if he graduated S/L, jumped without booties in
>>>a frap while wearing an old Vector or Hog?
>
>>Nope...the last type you just described wouldn't hook into the ground like a
>>young mainstream idiot! o~;)P
>>
>
>shows how much you know.
>ive been watching them do it for over 20 years.
>the parachutes just werent as fast...but they still hooked 'em in..
>
Careful jb - that's against the Party Line - nevermind your relevant
and superior experience. Why, don't you know that it is only certain,
inferior castes which make mistakes. Never any other and certainly
not him, oh no!
Goddammit! Now he's gonna sling some more of his balled up
excrement...again!!!
It's not the volume (which is considerable) but the stench.
...bsrp
...jlk
Jerry K.
troublemaker) wrote:
Still, they told you nonetheless.
Just like other places told you before you found a place that would
let you and then they ended up having had to tell you too.
Now, was it you or the dz's poor leadership which was responsible for
your accident?
...bsrp
...jlk
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>Goddammit! Now he's gonna sling some more of his balled up
>excrement...again!!
and I sling it with more style and grace
than you DZ lizzards...btw twink, thanks for keeping Skydive Orange in my sight
ring all night....They needed an education
on what family used to be/should be ;)P
~All living holds suffering
Misery stops when greed stops~
MO SKYPIGS
>shows how much you know.
>ive been watching them do it for over 20 years.
>the parachutes just werent as fast...but they still hooked 'em in..
I agree, they hooked them in back then, but couldn't go fast enough to die,
"But" there was one thing that was different that occured, when they f#*ked up
and got hurt the powers that be (DZO, SkyGods, The Area Safety Officer, The
Club Safety Officer, Junior Gods etc.) would put them in line with the program.
They had two options: get it right or get it gone!
Now we pat them on the back, and tell them it's OK, feel sorry for them because
they were stupid, and do every thing we can to get them healed, and back on the
Super Otter because we need the paying customers the keep this high priced
M*$her F*$ker flying!
There are some things in life, that are different, even though they appear the
same:
In life when you F#$k up, "you" get to retake the test!
In Skydiving when you F#$k up "we" call the coroner!
Tom Dolphin, D-6919
skydiving rec
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>From: Jerry K. sky...@pdq.net
>From: Jerry K. sky...@pdq.net
Way to go twink....keep it up there all night, stand up for the sheep! Won'y
git you a staff video job at Skydive Orange
but its the right thing to do <eg>
Jerry K.
wrote:
>>Careful jb - that's against the Party Line
>
>>Goddammit! Now he's gonna sling some more of his balled up
>>excrement...again!!
>
>and I sling it with more style and grace
>than you DZ lizzards...
Oh yeah - headers like "Skydive Orange Sucks" and calling them white
trash. Style and Grace all over. Mary Wprth on crack.
>btw twink,
What the fuck's a "twink?" Must be one of those navy things.
>thanks for keeping Skydive Orange in my sight
>ring all night....They needed an education
>on what family used to be/should be ;)P
Oh yeah - sure, happy to help, you sure showed them, bet they won't be
doing that again for some time, they sure learned their lesson. Put
it in your resume, too.
Whatcha gonna do if Orange is an independent S/L place?
Ah, yes - pretend it ain't so. Brilliant.
...bsrp
...jlk
Jerry K.
wrote:
>>From: Jerry K. sky...@pdq.net
>
>>From: Jerry K. sky...@pdq.net
>
>>From: Jerry K. sky...@pdq.net
>
>Way to go twink....keep it up there all night, stand up for the sheep! Won'y
>git you a staff video job at Skydive Orange
>but its the right thing to do <eg>
>
Don't need a staff job (much less want one).
What the fuck, I still get to skydive.
...bsrp
...jlk
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>your accident?
>
>...bsrp
>...jlk
Nope....never said it was, never complained---->it was my decision.
That 1999 Jump seems to bother
you worse than it does me...
I doubt that 24 year old laying up
in ICU is blaming Skydive Orange
either, he had a hundred jumps
he knows he fukked up...its a shame
RPRigging & Orange had to step on their dicks like a buncha clueless idiots ;)P
SkydiverRick
unlike your skydive orange friend...I'm a high born man
> from the south...doncha ever forgit it boy! ;)P
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>>git you a staff video job at Skydive Orange
>>but its the right thing to do <eg>
>>
>
>Don't need a staff job (much less want one).
>
>What the fuck, I still get to skydive.
>
>...bsrp
>...jlk
>
>
>
Jerry K.
wrote:
>>Way to go twink....keep it up there all night, stand up for the sheep! Won'y
>>>git you a staff video job at Skydive Orange
>>>but its the right thing to do <eg>
>>>
>>
>>Don't need a staff job (much less want one).
>>
>>What the fuck, I still get to skydive.
>>
>>...bsrp
>>...jlk
>>
>>
>>
> it shows
Really grates, don't it? More of that junior high syndrome: rejected
by the home room cutie so you make yourself feel better by discovering
that you actually hate her.
Yep, that's skydiving for you, in a nutshell.
...bsrp
...jlk
Jerry K.
wrote:
>>Now, was it you or the dz's poor leadership which was responsible for
>>your accident?
>>
>>...bsrp
>>...jlk
>
>Nope....never said it was, never complained---->it was my decision.
I somehow remember you recently complaining about how the dz made you
jump a larger canopy so that's a lie. Still your decision, though.
>That 1999 Jump seems to bother
>you worse than it does me...
It doesn't bother me and it shouldn't bother you when I bring it up -
unless bringing it up to shed light on your decision making, planning,
thinking, and landing abilities bothers you, that is.
>I doubt that 24 year old laying up
>in ICU is blaming Skydive Orange
>either,
No, you've been covering that slot all by yourself just fine.
>he had a hundred jumps
>he knows he fukked up...
Wait a sec - he had less than 200 jumps so by your assessment he was
nothing more than a novice who didn't know shit. Poor leadership and
all that rhetorical bullshit. Not even a good attempt in weasling out
of what you said.
>its a shame
>RPRigging & Orange had to step on their dicks like a buncha clueless idiots ;)P
No, they were straight up and forthright. It was you freaking out and
making snap decisions based purely upon what would make you feel
better about having screwed yourself out of the sport - therein lies
the clueless idiocy.
...bsrp
...jlk
Bill Hultgren
had more than 140 jumps, and is cosidered by his instructors to be a
capable canopy pilot who now understands clearly that stupidity is a
self-correcting problem. He suffered a compression fracture at C6 and
a broken left femur (37 cm. rod attached). We are providing support
and prayers.
Bill Hultgren S&TA MA-19
Bill Hultgren
Bill Hultgren
Airman1270
people died because a parachute didn't work and they didn't use the
other one. With over 20 years in the sport I jump an old rig with a
290 square foot Star-Trac and a Strong lo-po reserve. Sure, sometimes
I get tired of being made to feel like a circus freak, but I love my
classic rig and, more to the point, it's treated me well. I can spiral
into the ground and survive with little more damage than a broken leg.
Besides, The main reason I got into this sport was to take a parachute
ride. You gotta admit, a nice canopy ride is a real desirable way to
finish a skydive...
I don't travel much, but last year I visited the Ranch in New
York, where I'd jumped a bit in the mid 80's & early 90's. A small
group of people treated me & my Wonderhog with outright contempt,
including an attractive little snob who was in diapers when I made my
first jump. (Read about it in the letters page of last December's
PARACHUTIST.) Still, it was a great time overall and I'd jump there
again anytime.
Best wishes to the young ORANGE jumper.
Jon
Bill Hultgren
> On Sunday afternoon, a 24-year-old-jumper, who won't be named in this report to
> protect his privacy, made a low turn to final approach at Skydive Orange,
> Virginia, landing very hard. He suffered serious injuries to his back,
> resulting in profound and probably permanent paralysis from the chest down. He
> also broke at least his femur and jaw.
no broken jaw, compression fracture at C6, broken left femur...no
prognosis yet regarding paralysis... we are still hopeful, even if you
are not
> He had approximately 100 jumps made at several area drop zones. He had
> completed an experienced jumper participation agreement at Orange in June and
> jumped there several times since, but only a few times on weekends. The jumpers
> there had not noticed anything remarkable about his equipment, but several said
> they remembered him jumping a larger canopy. All were surprised to learn that
> he was using a Sabre 170 when he had the accident. His registration information
> said he weighs 222 pounds without gear for an estimated wing loading over 1.4.
This is beginning to sound like CNN... This section is full of too
many innaccuracies.
> On previous occasions, he had been counseled for erratic canopy handling and
> landing off the wind in groups, but he had not been observed making aggressive
> low turns prior to his accident. He had also been cautioned about careless
> aircraft procedures, and typically pulled at the lowest allowable altitude.
> When he visited, he often arrived late during the busiest times and left early,
> leaving little time for anyone to advise him.
Mike, call me if you want some factual information...he DID NOT
typically pull at low altitudes...I know where you received some of
your info, and I will protect the anonymity of the missinformed.
>
> On this jump, he was jumping solo from a Twin Otter and exited early in the
> pass. He was wearing cutoffs, a t-shirt and sandals a skateboard-style helmet
> and smoke goggles. A high-performance canopy coach observed the last part of
> his descent. The coach said he approached the field from the crosswind side,
> lined up downwind and began a sharp 180-degree turn into the wind very low that
> was still in progress when he hit the ground. Another experienced jumper who
> said he was watching out of the corner of his eye, estimated the turn at closer
> to 90 degrees but agreed he was still completing the turn when he hit the
> ground. The trajectory of his first point of impact to where he stopped
> indicates he had brought the canopy into the wind before he struck the ground.
he DID NOT exit early...his friend did
> He had no obstacles in front of him on the downwind leg, and the winds were
> very light and variable. He could have landed straight ahead safely. However,
> once he started the left turn, he was committed to completing it or hitting a
> large pile of dirt and rocks to his left with probably serious consequences.
> Once this jumper started the left turn, he was committed to a bad accident,
> either way. The field to his right was also clear and would have allowed him to
> stop the turn at any time and land safely.
he learned, as did some of your mentors, that stupidity is a
self-correcting problem.
> He was immediately assisted by several medical personnel on the scene before a
> helicopter arrived from Charlottesville. He was conscious and talking. But
> because he was having increasing trouble breathing, the crew anesthetized and
> intubated him before transporting him.
they did a great job
> Also, his emergency contact was a friend who didn't have contact information
> for the jumper's family. It was several hours before social services at the
> hospital could notify a family member.
This paragraph is total bullshit... I was the one who contacted his
family...it was not several hours and it was not social services....
Bill Hultgren
S&TA MA-19
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
~EXECELLENT REPORT LAD~
to the point, no axes to grind
bravo zulu ;-*
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>>Nope....never said it was, never complained---->it was my decision.
>I somehow remember you recently >complaining about how the dz made you
>jump a larger canopy so that's a lie. Still >your decision, though.
and thats a sheep fabrication, I said I received a lot of unsolicited advice
from skydivers via electronic mail....Of course most USPA types think of
themselves as experts...The DZ had no say in equipment selection, I just showed
up with it. The DZO tried to talk me into a Tandem but;
#1 he only came up to my chin...I saw myself sticking out of the grass a foot
before his feet touched the ground ;)
#2 I planned to build back up to my original 100 or 120 jump a year
schedule....no way to reach that goal paying tandem prices ;(
#3. Skydiving was a freedom issue for me.
I worked damn hard to git my D in 4 years
and aquire 2 rigs so I could go anywhere
and jump at my pleasure Bottom line
Tandem is not skydiving to me...never will
be, sorry about that! ;)P
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
Won'y
>>git you a staff video job at Skydive >>Orange
>>but its the right thing to do <eg>
>
>Don't need a staff job
>What the fuck, I still get to skydive.
yeah but your personality is for shit kid
Call BR549 thepolk county mule trading barn and ask for Miss Emmile, she runs a
finishing school for unwed mothers ;)P
Darren G
> "MO SKYPIGS" <mosk...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20030722202903...@mb-m10.aol.com...
> > >1) Guy under a canopy he had little business flying making several
> > >bad decisions and suffering the consequences.
> >
> > I agree!
> >
> > >2) Everyone, from other jumpers to the S&TA to the dzo dropped the
> > >ball on the canopy. No one should be flying a square with that kind
> > >of wingloading at 100 jumps.
> >
> > Lets' See, HHUUMMMM Adult, C license qualified jumper with his own
> equipment,
> > and everyone else dropped the ball? Did they sell him the gear? or did
> Santa
> > bring it to him?
> >
> > >3) Guy had done stupid things numerously in the past and had been
> > >told to cut it out.
> >
> > Did he understand English?
> >
> > >4) Guy ignored this advice.
> >
> > You answered my question!
> >
> > >5) Armchair quarterbacking - the S&TA and or the dzo (or even the
> > >other jumpers) didn't do enough on the guy's lack of safety concerns -
> > >they only cautioned when it is clear *now* that they should have
> > >grounded.
> >
> > You can lead any horses ass to the water, "They" are required to make the
> > decision to drink. And as usual in these situations Darwin makes a call,
> and
> > all the others participants in the sport get sent the bill.
> >
> > Tom Dolphin, D-6919
>
> You know Tom, I want to lean your direction. He is an adult. But this was
> not a isolated issue. Consider:
>
> Low time skydiver.
> History of erratic canopy flying
> Landing off wind
> Low pulls
> Wing loading beyond his experience
> Careless aircraft procedures
> Didn't seek training, or make himself available for it
>
> Snuffy was not armchair quarterbacking. He was using this tragedy to make a
> point about what should be done tomorrow, just as incident reports does all
> too often. I agree that you can't make a horse drink or a force skydiver to
> make good choices in the air. But as a DZO or S&TA you can damn sure ground
> him, and not expose other jumpers to risk from his actions, and not expose
> the DZ to the problems that major accidents bring along. At least to the
> point of requiring mandatory training on his observed problems. I suspect a
> lot of people now wish they had..Grounding a jumper is sometimes the
> greatest favor you can give him. And reminding others that it needs to
> happen, is part of that.
>
> Tom B
>
> >
> >
> > skydiving rec
Im really sorry this guy got hurt and I hope he makes a good recovery.
There's been a number of common sense points made about the incident
and I dont disagree with any of them. One thing I would add though -
and this might be a little controversial - is that I dont think the
old sabres are really suitable for low jump newbies. I think theyre a
little twitchy and definitely not very forgiving - compared to some
other canopies - if you get into a difficult situation. Dont get me
wrong, when I was just out of newbiedom I put 200 jumps on my sabre
170 before I downsized. It was almost new when I got it and I loved
the thing.
Blues
Darren G
ps it was a friend suddenly hooking into the corner in front of me
that distracted me for the nanosecond that it took for me to flare
late and cause my present knee injury. I dont encourage anyone to hook
but, if you are gonna do it, make sure you dont affect anyone else.
> >
Bill Hultgren
> >On Sunday afternoon, a 24-year-old->jumper, made a low turn to final approach
> >>at Skydive Orange,
> >>Virginia, landing very hard.
> >> He suffered serious injuries
> >
>
> >>landing off the wind in group
>
> >accident. >He had also been
> >cautioned about >careless aircraft >procedures, and
> >>typically pulled at the lowest allowable >altitude. When he visited,
>
> >> Sabre 170
> >>222 pounds
>
> >theres the problem...to much canopy & wing loading for his experience
> >level---yawl quit bad mouthing the boy, you or one of your friends prolly
> >sold him the damn thing!
>
> He's down for the count GO AHEAD AND KICK HIM, he ain't hurt enuff ;(
>
> See this is typical DZ as family;
> D S Y F U N C T I O N A L
>
> If somebody dies....its oh "boo hoo blues brother!" even if ya didn't know the
> deceased...truth be known ya prolly wuddn't even jump with the goofy sumbitch
> if ya did cuz yer a pack of PHONY ASSHOLES ever last one of you
> USPA sumbitchs! sick sick sick I call for a local and federal investigation,
> your tactics stink and tell me your trying to hide something PRICKS. I spit on
> you ;-Pffft
> ~don coyote~
> Sheep Agent
> Rattling the uspa gods expectations
thanks Snuff...I need a laugh...James will too when he finds out he is
star on rec.wuffo...oops, I mean skydiving
BillH
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
before forming a skydiving opinion ;)P
>(Bill Hultgren)
>S&TA
~the story developes~
>Guy who don't like him<
>On Sunday afternoon, a 24-year-old->jumper made a low turn to final approach
> landing very hard. He suffered serious >injuries to his back,
>resulting in profound and probably >permanent paralysis from the chest down
S&TA
>no broken jaw, compression fracture at >C6, broken left femur...no
>prognosis yet regarding paralysis... we >are still hopeful, even if you are
not
>skydive orange asshole<
>He had approximately 100 jumps
>S&TA<
>he had 140 jumps
>skydive orange asshole<
>On previous occasions, he had been >counseled for erratic canopy handling >and
landing off the wind in groups,
> low turns prior to his accident. He had >also been cautioned about careless
>S&TA<
>Mike, call me if you want some factual >information...he DID NOT
>typically pull at low altitudes...I know >where you received some of
>your info and I will protect the anonymity >of the missinformed.
>
BIG MISTAKE
take the bastard down kid
>S&TA<
>he DID NOT exit early...his friend did
>skydive orange asshole<
>Also, his emergency contact was a friend who didn't have contact information
>> for the jumper's family. It was several hours before social services at the
>> hospital could notify a family member.
>
>S&TA<
>This paragraph is total bullshit... I was the one who contacted his
>family...it was not several hours and it was not social services....
>
>
>Bill Hultgren
>S&TA MA-19
>
>
Attention wreck Novices Wizzards know;...their are two sides to evey story the
truth often lies somewhere in the middle...
NEED I SAY MORE? ;-o
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>>
>> See this is typical DZ as family;
>> D S Y F U N C T I O N A L
> If somebody dies....its oh "boo hoo blues brother!" even if ya didn't know
>the
>> deceased...truth be known ya prolly wuddn't even jump with the goofy
>sumbitch
>> if ya did cuz yer a pack of PHONY ASSHOLES ever last one of you
>> USPA sumbitchs! sick sick sick I call for a local and federal
>investigation,
>> your tactics stink and tell me your trying to hide something PRICKS. I spit
>on
>> you ;-Pffft
>> ~don coyote~
>> Sheep Agent
>> Rattling the uspa gods expectations
>
>
>
>thanks Snuff...I need a laugh...James will too when he finds out he is
>star on rec.wuffo...oops, I mean skydiving
>
>BillH
>
>
Yes I do what I can to bring reason to wreck by breaking the tension durning
tragic periods unfortunately my ironic view throws the mainstream off...
they just don't understand old guy
ways and chose to take it personal
~OH WOE IS ME~ ;->
Anonymous troublemaker
your going down ya trashy M'fer
TEXAS SHEEP REGULATORS UP!!
BRING ROPE
Yeeeeeeeeha ;-Pfffft
Jerry K.
wrote:
>>>Way to go twink....keep it up there all >>night, stand up for the sheep!
>Won'y
>>>git you a staff video job at Skydive >>Orange
>>>but its the right thing to do <eg>
>>
>
>>Don't need a staff job
>>What the fuck, I still get to skydive.
>
>yeah but your personality is for shit kid
Personality? What? You're in beauty contest mode now? Electronic
newsgroup, dude.
>Call BR549 thepolk county mule trading barn and ask for Miss Emmile, she runs a
>finishing school for unwed mothers ;)P
>
Hahahahahhahahaha....I don't get it. Wait. Isn't Miss Emmile just
Big Earl in drag?
...bsrp
...jlk
Anonymous troublemaker
>your going down ya trashy M'fer
> BRING ROPE
> Yeeeeeeeeha
If theirs more than one Mike at that particular Yankee DZ.....Be advised.
take a vacation...leave the country
till the Texas irregulars have left the area
TEXAS REGULATORS
BRING SPARE ROPE
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeha
Col. w. coyote
troop commander
Polk county calvary
Anonymous troublemaker
>>finishing school for unwed mothers ;)P
>>
>
>Hahahahahhahahaha....I don't get it. Wait. Isn't Miss Emmile just
>Big Earl in drag?
>
>...bsrp
>...jlk
>
>
I got style humor/ he has Mr. T's attitude
Big Earl is big and black, go's 280/320 pounds and don't care fer smarty pants
white boys from thethe city---->Be advised Ya had yer chance ;)P
Jerry K.
wrote:
>>>
>>>Nope....never said it was, never complained---->it was my decision.
>plus I'm from a different/stronger era
>
>>I somehow remember you recently >complaining about how the dz made you
>>jump a larger canopy so that's a lie. Still >your decision, though.
>
>and thats a sheep fabrication, I said I received a lot of unsolicited advice
>from skydivers via electronic mail....
What's fair for the goose, I guess. Never let it be said that you
were never abundant in similar unsolicited advice but also, never let
it be said that following such advice was required - thank god
following your advice isn't required.
>Of course most USPA types think of
>themselves as experts...The DZ had no say in equipment selection, I just showed
>up with it. The DZO tried to talk me into a Tandem but;
God, do I have to pull what you said up and rub it in your face?
Remember the Cloud and your desire to jump the Falcon but for some
reason didn't?
>
>#1 he only came up to my chin...I saw myself sticking out of the grass a foot
>before his feet touched the ground ;)
>
>#2 I planned to build back up to my original 100 or 120 jump a year
>schedule....no way to reach that goal paying tandem prices ;(
>
>#3. Skydiving was a freedom issue for me.
>I worked damn hard to git my D in 4 years
>and aquire 2 rigs so I could go anywhere
>and jump at my pleasure Bottom line
>Tandem is not skydiving to me...never will
>be, sorry about that! ;)P
>
Nice attempt at diversion but it's not working here. I never said
anything about you doing a tandem or the advisability of such an idea
- though if it was just to get your knees back into the breeze one
more time, a suggestion you've made as to the reasons behind that jump
before, and not a plan to work back up to 100 some odd jumps a year
(which is a new one), then maybe a tandem would have been the way to
go - at least in retrospect. Steering in any case would not have
become the issue which it became.
So, you never complained about that jump. Fine. Why complain about
that embarrassment went you can complain about everyone else making
jumps?
...bsrp
...jlk
Jerry K.
troublemaker) wrote:
>>ask for Miss Emmile, she runs a
>>>finishing school for unwed mothers ;)P
>>>
>>
>>Hahahahahhahahaha....I don't get it. Wait. Isn't Miss Emmile just
>>Big Earl in drag?
>>
>>...bsrp
>>...jlk
>>
>>
>HEY KID FUK WITH ME ALL YOU WANT
>I got style humor/ he has Mr. T's attitude
>Big Earl is big and black, go's 280/320 pounds and don't care fer smarty pants
>white boys from thethe city---->Be advised Ya had yer chance ;)P
>
So, he reads this newsgroup or are you gonna go a'tattling? Besides,
I'm not the one who regularly drags the Big E into his arguments - you
should let him read what you write before you go running and shrieking
that some anonymous person on an electronic newsgroup wondered if
there was any connection between a Miss Emmile and a Big Earl? You
still haven't denied Miss Emmile and Big Earl are the same person -
how's he gonna like that?
Whups - maybe you shouldn't clue him in about that.
Nope, don't look good for you.
...bsrp
...jlk
Jerry K.
troublemaker) wrote:
>
>If theirs more than one Mike at that particular Yankee DZ.....
Virginia's yankee soil? Heh heh. Bobby Lee (God Bless him) seems to
have been from there. He served in Texas, once upon a time but
Virginia, no yankee dz's there.
>Be advised.
>take a vacation...leave the country
>till the Texas irregulars have left the area
>TEXAS REGULATORS
Didn't know they hired non-Texans to be their mouthpiece. My, how
standards have fallen.
...bsrp
...jlk
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>So, he reads this newsgroup or are you >gonna go a'tattling?
Big Earl's a family retainer olden Valet type/Old Family, he looks after me.
Wears a white coat...doles out my meds, reads any correspondence with the
outside world...trys to keep me outta lockup
and generally protect me..Of course a low born city mutt like you wouldn't know
of such things. ;)P
Jerry K.
wrote:
>>HEY KID FUK WITH ME ALL YOU >WANT I got style humor/ he has Mr. T's >attitude
>
>>So, he reads this newsgroup or are you >gonna go a'tattling?
>
>Big Earl's a family retainer olden Valet type/Old Family, he looks after me.
>Wears a white coat...doles out my meds, reads any correspondence with the
>outside world...trys to keep me outta lockup
>and generally protect me..Of course a low born city mutt like you wouldn't know
>of such things. ;)P
>
I kinda figured he was your nursemaid but no worries, just keep him
from reading the threads you drag him into and he'll be less likely to
pee in your oatmeal.
What's that you like to say? Shit too funny?
...bsrp
...jlk
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>Valet type/Wears a white coat with gloves...doles out my meds, >reads any
correspondence with the outside world...trys to keep me outta >lockup and
generally protect me
>I kinda figured he was your nursemaid but no worries, just keep him
>from reading the threads you drag him into and he'll be less likely to
>pee in your oatmeal.
>
>What's that you like to say? Shit too funny?
>
>...bsrp
>...jlk
>
>
yes it is cuz Earl and I have discussed that in the past, he only grin's and
sez
Trussssssssssst me Mr. Jimmy
Terusssssssssssssssssst me ;->
Joe Walther
"O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann " <to...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030723124605...@mb-m26.aol.com...
> >HEY KID FUK WITH ME ALL YOU >WANT I got style humor/ he has Mr. T's
>attitude
>
> >So, he reads this newsgroup or are you >gonna go a'tattling?
>
> Big Earl's a family retainer olden Valet type/Old Family, he looks after
me.
> Wears a white coat...doles out my meds, reads any correspondence with the
> outside world...trys to keep me outta lockup
> and generally protect me..
Walther responds...
Say what you want. It sounds like the loony bin to me! :-)
Walther
Jerry K.
All that's missing is the jumbo-sized butterfly net.
...bsrp
...jlk
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
> Wears a white coat...doles out my >meds, reads any correspondence with >the
outside world..
>Walther responds...
>>
>>Say what you want. It sounds like the loony bin to me! :-)
>
Was the white coat the giveaway? ;)P
Joe Walther
> >Big Earl's a family retainer
> >he looks after me.
> > Wears a white coat...doles out my >meds, reads any correspondence with
>the
> outside world..
>
> >Walther responds...
> >>
> >>Say what you want. It sounds like the loony bin to me! :-)
> >
>
> Was the white coat the giveaway? ;)P
Walther responds...
Well, yes. That plus your paranoia, delusions of grandeur, your inferred
omniscience, incessant forgetfulness and the fact that you converse with
yourself on the NG. (via the fact that you use at least two screen names
that you use to post and respond to) :-)
Other than these idiosyncrasies, you appear to be perfectly normal! ;)
Joe Walther
O Cuinn Mac an Ghabbann
>Say what you want. It sounds like the >loony bin to me! :-)
>Was the white coat the giveaway? ;)P
>
>Well, yes. That plus your paranoia, >delusions of grandeur, your inferred
>omniscience, incessant forgetfulness
See here my good fellow, I'll admit to being slightly eccentric but CRS has not
prevailed yet....TAKE HOLD OF YOURSELF! :-<
Anonymous troublemaker
>>
>>Say what you want. It sounds like the loony bin to me! :-)
>>
>
>All that's missing is the jumbo-sized butterfly net.
>
>...bsrp
>...jlk
uh thats prolly Jumbo Jumbo now that I don't exercise or pack anymore kid.
balooned to 254 barefooted and in boxer shorts 2XX boxer shorts at that ;-*
Flynylon
> take a vacation...leave the country
> till the Texas irregulars have left the area
> TEXAS REGULATORS
> BRING SPARE ROPE
> Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeha
> Col. w. coyote
> troop commander
> Polk county calvary
> ~don coyote~
> Sheep Agent
> Rattling the uspa gods expectations
I am a Mike at Skydive Orange, and dear sir, I would like to be the
first to offer you a hearty welcome, should actually decide to visit
our fair DZ. I can assure you it is no Yankee DZ. Please review your
history of the Civil War, the location of the Mason-Dixon line in
relation to Orange, VA, and the location of several battlefields where
good southern men lost their lives within a 30-mile radius of this
particular DZ.
In extending this invitation, I do feel the need to ask you politely
to act as the gentleman you claim to be and to please refrain from
using another's misfortune to benefit you in what I believe is an
ill-intentioned battle with a certain USPA Regional Director and
Orange S&TA. I am far too proud to call him my friend and family
member to stand by and watch you blatantly attack him, or the dropzone
I call home.
I extend this invitation for many reasons, first of which is to
correct whatever misjudgment you have cast upon the most friendly DZ
in the world. Secondly, I would also like to show you exactly how much
of an inclusive family we really are. I would also like to correct the
misguided idea you have about Orange having a DZO. Skydive Orange is a
club. You mentioned in another thread that Skydive Orange had an A/C
crash in which skydivers died. That is wrong, sir. Please cut and
paste this link to realize it was a non-fatal crash:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001208X07042&key=1
That crash was one of two, I believe, in the last 20+ years at Orange.
I wholeheartedly believe in the safety record of Skydive Orange, or
believe me, I would not jump there. You may have found the incident
report posted here yesterday to be far more detailed than most reports
of an injury. I can tell you that it was simply to broadcast the best
information available at the time. Some of that information may be
imperfect, but who among us is not? That information was compiled to
raise awareness among those with low jump numbers as well as those who
jump with them in order to try to help counter the rising trend of
these types of accidents. I can see of no reason for fingers to be
pointed in this instance. This accident, while tragic, thankfully is
rare at Orange, hence the thoroughness of the initial report while
remaining timely.
I would also like to point out that many members of Skydive Orange who
are highly-trained in the medical field rushed to the scene of the
accident. Several others joined just to provide comfort to a fallen
skydiver. One of our family members further went on with this young
man to the hospital to ensure his care and continually relayed
information back to Orange. Keep in mind, this young man was a
visiting jumper. No judgment was passed by those who aided him, nor
did anyone care where he normally jumped or what he was jumping. They
did what they could to take care of a brother.
On to a happier subject of your impending visit, I would also like you
to see that not only are we a tight-knit, yet inclusive group, we are
also very fond of our guns and brown liquor. I doubt you'd find a more
well-armed DZ anywhere in the world outside of a military
installation. If for some strange reason brown liquor isn't to your
liking, we have fridges full of beer. If you prefer a nice hard
lemonade, we generally have that too. I prefer my hard Dickens Cider.
Semper Fidelis!
Smile and have a great day!
mike
Cliff Heller
> It's a fine line between maintaining safety and becoming gestapo. The
> numerous safety screwups is an easy call as is 100 jump wonders
> loading squares at 1.6.
Ironically, skydive Orange typically errs on the side of gestapo.
Still, someone determined to hurt themselves will find a way.
--
"Letters may be used to construct words, phrases and sentences that may be
deemed offensive."
-Warning label on children's alphabet blocks
Anonymous troublemaker
>
>TEXAS REGULATORS
>> BRING SPARE ROPE
>> Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeha
>> troop commander
>> Polk county calvary
>I am a Mike at Skydive Orange, and dear sir, I would like to be the
>first to offer you a hearty welcome, should actually decide to visit
>our fair DZ.
Nope, fraid yawl wud talk bad about me if I broke another leg sonny. Yer PR man
ain't looking too good on the James Ridder incident.
>I can assure you it is no Yankee DZ. >Please review your
>history of the Civil War,
>the location of the Mason-Dixon line in
>relation to Orange, VA,
The blue bellys confinscated Lee's beloved home in A. Va...Vargenny is occupied
by the children of Carpet Baggers to this very day...Ya kin't fool the Rebs
boy.
>In extending this invitation, I do feel the >need to ask you politely to act
as the >gentleman you claim to be
oh sorry didn't I mention I was a brevet Col.
promoted from sarjant of horse? Sooooooo
I'm gonna boff your calvary mount and shit in your messkit blue belly! ooooorah
>refrain from using another's misfortune to >benefit you in what I believe is
an
>ill-intentioned battle with a certain USPA >Regional Director and Orange S&TA
????Ya lost me there lad, I'm not familar with local politics ;-o)
>You mentioned in another thread that >Skydive Orange had an A/C
>crash in which skydivers died. That is >wrong, sir. Please cut and
>paste this link to realize it was a non->fatal crash:
oh yeah I remember now yawl's plane crashed into someones back porch...
It was another Yankee dz that killed 9 skydivers shorting the gas on a twin to
improve load capacity and turn around time. You have my apology on that item
Sir..My pickets will continue to harry your
lines untill further news is received on James Ridder BETTER NOT HEAR ANY MORE
NEGATIVE TALK ABOUT THE KID
FROM HENSE FORTH...while he lays wounded... or the old Polk county Col. is
gonna boff all your horses boy ;-*
w. coyote
commanding
Texas Irregulars
Jerry K.
>Jerry K. <sky...@pdq.net> writes:
>
>> It's a fine line between maintaining safety and becoming gestapo. The
>> numerous safety screwups is an easy call as is 100 jump wonders
>> loading squares at 1.6.
>
>Ironically, skydive Orange typically errs on the side of gestapo.
>
>Still, someone determined to hurt themselves will find a way.
Not surprised. As soon as the dingleberry starting shrilling poor
leadership and all that rot, it was pretty clear that it was more the
jumper than the dz. Thanks for the info.
...bsrp
...jlk
Anonymous troublemaker
>>> numerous safety screwups is an easy call as is 100 jump wonders
>>> loading squares at 1.6.
>>
>>Ironically, skydive Orange typically errs on the side of gestapo.
>>
>>Still, someone determined to hurt themselves will find a way.
>
>Not surprised. As soon as the dingleberry starting shrilling poor
>leadership and all that rot, it was pretty clear that it was more the
>jumper than the dz. Thanks for the info.
>
>...bsrp
>...jlk
>
>
THE BANK!! !!...Its a never ending learning cycle for the young...Leadership is
just peer pressure & example, Unfortunately the elders have brought into the
small epp concept and are trying to learn to riser hook theirselves..Therefore
Mature leaderships gone south,
everybodys wrapped up in their own ego
and I'm retired....No ones watching out for the kids anymore o~;)P
Jerry K.
troublemaker) wrote:
>> It's a fine line between maintaining >safety and becoming gestapo. The
>>>> numerous safety screwups is an easy call as is 100 jump wonders
>>>> loading squares at 1.6.
>>>
>>>Ironically, skydive Orange typically errs on the side of gestapo.
>>>
>>>Still, someone determined to hurt themselves will find a way.
>>
>>Not surprised. As soon as the dingleberry starting shrilling poor
>>leadership and all that rot, it was pretty clear that it was more the
>>jumper than the dz. Thanks for the info.
>>
>>...bsrp
>>...jlk
>>
>>
>If you skydive hard enough yer gonna make mistakes twink THATS A FACT/PUT IT IN
>THE BANK!! !!...
If you skydive stupid enough yer gonna make mistakes. Skydiving hard
in my book means skydiving smart - not taking undue stupid ass
chances, thinking things through. Repetition, having a plan, sticking
to the plan, yet being heads up to make allowances for when it doesn't
all go entirely according to plan. Just because you skydive "hard" is
no excuse for fucking yourself up.
>Its a never ending learning cycle for the young...Leadership is
>just peer pressure & example, Unfortunately the elders have brought into the
>small epp concept and are trying to learn to riser hook theirselves..
Which is interesting in that the injured guy in this thread was
jumping an overloaded square - without a doubt one of the chief causes
of injuries under a good canopy *back in the old days* and he
apparently cranked a toggle instead of carving with a front riser -
wonder where he got that idea? Huh? Might want to start slamming the
kid now, yourself - quite possible you taught him the absolute wrong
way to hook. Nope, don't look good. Uh uh.
It certainly does not give me any pleasure that the guy got hurt but I
am laughing my ass off right now in that it happened at a club dz -
just waiting for you to transfer the blame (cause that's your gig, you
like to blame things - makes you feel better about yourself) onto the
guy who got injured.
>Therefore
>Mature leaderships gone south,
>everybodys wrapped up in their own ego
>and I'm retired....No ones watching out for the kids anymore o~;)P
Fuck, you weren't watching them before you screwed up and had to
retire. You were going up and jumping with people with less jumps
than you because they didn't know any better and it's interesting to
note that it was your betters who had to step in and break your
attempts at bigways down into smaller groups. It was clear by that
action that you couldn't organize worth a shit either - you were just
packing in any and all because they didn't know any better and you
wanted to pretend you were doing bigways. People still remember.
Vanity and ego. No small wonder you injured yourself out of the
sport.
...bsrp
...jlk
SkydiverRick
> kid. balooned to 254 barefooted and in boxer shorts 2XX boxer shorts
> at that ;-* ~don coyote~
> Sheep Agent
> Rattling the uspa gods expectations
packing a hundred parachutes a year will really shed the pounds.
Anonymous troublemaker
>Walther responds...
>yada yada yada >>>>snip<<<
(basically snuffies a skitzoid talk)
>and you respond to your own posts!
Nah it just looks like it Joe cuz I got two accounts So I'm in there flanking
the sheepgods throwing left and right hooks
in a flurry and their defending left and right.
I pull a quote outta a quote from another account their trying to respond to
THEN RABBIT PUNCH THEM IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD TO STIR THAT SHEEP SHIT and oh
yeah, I jabber alot also...so its all an illusion Joe! Yuh I think it is
anyway. O~;-* w. coyote
Anonymous troublemaker
>> kid. balooned to 254 barefooted and in >>boxer shorts 2XX boxer shorts
>> at that ;-*
>packing a hundred parachutes a year will >really shed the pounds.
>"SkydiverRick"
Nah that wasn't it---->running down the young smartass's and making them do the
chicken dance is what really shed the pounds off my big ole butt ;)P
JimBo
>From: afan...@aol.com (Anonymous troublemaker)
>Nah that wasn't it---->running down the young smartass's and making them do
>the
>chicken dance is what really shed the pounds off my big ole butt
now everytime you take a dump you drop 30 pounds....then you arent full of shit
for at least 8 hours.
Jim D-10154
funjumper and hoe.
Man small... why fall ? Skies call... thats all.
Anonymous troublemaker
>the chicken dance is what really shed the >pounds off my big ole butt
>
>now everytime you take a dump you drop 30 pounds....then you arent full of
>shit
>for at least 8 hours.
>
>Jim D-10154
>funjumper and hoe.
48 the MiraLax kicks in the day after tomorrow when taking then works around
the clock 24 hours for one day...so what we got is 60 pounds of shit waiting
till day after tomorrow then fighting like hell for a place in the que for 24
hours! ;)P
Anonymous troublemaker
IN THE BANK!! !!...
>If you skydive stupid enough yer gonna >make mistakes. Skydiving hard
>in my book means skydiving smart -
Zowee???? are you pre positioning to run
for a Regional or National slot already?
Thats politically correct talk if I ever heard it. Ya know not reality but
sounds good to the right people...ya might sell it to MT or Jan kid But yew
ain't gonna fool the-------------------- ohm ohm ohm shit happens beer drinking
crowd! o~;)P