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French Protectionism
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Mike Clark
Feb 20, 2013, 7:15:56 AM2/20/13
to
I see the issue of French Protectionism for the ESF raises its ugly head
once again
http://www.planetski.eu/news/4683
"A court in France has ruled that British Tour companies are not allowed
to use ski hosts to show clients round the slopes. It believes skier
safety is compromsied. It is a test case and all ski hosting in France
is now banned."
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | caving, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user" http://www.antibody.me.uk/
once again
http://www.planetski.eu/news/4683
"A court in France has ruled that British Tour companies are not allowed
to use ski hosts to show clients round the slopes. It believes skier
safety is compromsied. It is a test case and all ski hosting in France
is now banned."
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | caving, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user" http://www.antibody.me.uk/
Ace
Feb 20, 2013, 8:11:57 AM2/20/13
to
On Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:15:56 GMT, Mike Clark <mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk>
wrote:
>I see the issue of French Protectionism for the ESF raises its ugly head
>once again
>
>http://www.planetski.eu/news/4683
>
>"A court in France has ruled that British Tour companies are not allowed
>to use ski hosts to show clients round the slopes. It believes skier
>safety is compromsied. It is a test case and all ski hosting in France
>is now banned."
Hadn't seen that new result yet. We (Ski Club) were part of the
earlier proceedings, as one of our leaders was also stopped and asked
in for questioning at the same time as the incident that sparked this.
In our case no further action was taken, presumably on the basis that
no financial remuneration takes place for our volunteer leaders. Even
so, we've changed our expenses system to ensure that (the very low)
allowances are only paid after the event and on presentation of
receipts.
As it happens, I have some sympathies with the French on this. I have
seen, and skied with, unqualified ski hosts, and while mostly they do
a reasonable job, some of them are frankly a menace. I recall one,
from some years ago, whose idea of leading was - "we're going down
here, see you at the bottom". I don't agree that they need to be
qulified ski instructors, particularly with the France-only rulng
about having to do the 'test technique' to teach, but maybe something
on a level with the BASI level one course (which is itself a lower
standard than the Ski Club leaders training, for example) could be
established...
--
Ace
Ski Club of Great Britain http://www.skiclub.co.uk/
All opinions expressed are those of the poster and in no way reflect those of the Ski Club or its members
wrote:
>I see the issue of French Protectionism for the ESF raises its ugly head
>once again
>
>http://www.planetski.eu/news/4683
>
>"A court in France has ruled that British Tour companies are not allowed
>to use ski hosts to show clients round the slopes. It believes skier
>safety is compromsied. It is a test case and all ski hosting in France
>is now banned."
earlier proceedings, as one of our leaders was also stopped and asked
in for questioning at the same time as the incident that sparked this.
In our case no further action was taken, presumably on the basis that
no financial remuneration takes place for our volunteer leaders. Even
so, we've changed our expenses system to ensure that (the very low)
allowances are only paid after the event and on presentation of
receipts.
As it happens, I have some sympathies with the French on this. I have
seen, and skied with, unqualified ski hosts, and while mostly they do
a reasonable job, some of them are frankly a menace. I recall one,
from some years ago, whose idea of leading was - "we're going down
here, see you at the bottom". I don't agree that they need to be
qulified ski instructors, particularly with the France-only rulng
about having to do the 'test technique' to teach, but maybe something
on a level with the BASI level one course (which is itself a lower
standard than the Ski Club leaders training, for example) could be
established...
--
Ace
Ski Club of Great Britain http://www.skiclub.co.uk/
All opinions expressed are those of the poster and in no way reflect those of the Ski Club or its members
Mike Clark
Feb 20, 2013, 9:05:19 AM2/20/13
to
In message <ioh9i8hn5tkt747j3...@4ax.com>
present the Ski Club might be OK but I wonder how long before the
authorities do look to see if they can come up with a trumped up charge.
>
> As it happens, I have some sympathies with the French on this. I have
> seen, and skied with, unqualified ski hosts, and while mostly they do
> a reasonable job, some of them are frankly a menace. I recall one,
> from some years ago, whose idea of leading was - "we're going down
> here, see you at the bottom".
Funnily enough I've had a similar experience in an ESF ski class where
the instructor decided that only those who could keep up with him were
going to get any instruction.
> I don't agree that they need to be qulified ski instructors,
> particularly with the France-only rulng about having to do the 'test
> technique' to teach, but maybe something on a level with the BASI
> level one course (which is itself a lower standard than the Ski Club
> leaders training, for example) could be established...
>
The problem with the French selection system for ESF has always been
that they put too much emphasis on the speed and technique of the
instructors skiing and not enough emphasis on their ability to teach or
empathise with their students. In my early years of skiing I had some
aweful experiences with ESF instructors and it wasn't until I started
taking lessons with some of the international ski schools that things
improved.
Mike
Ace <b.ro...@ifrance.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:15:56 GMT, Mike Clark <mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >I see the issue of French Protectionism for the ESF raises its ugly head
> >once again
> >
> >http://www.planetski.eu/news/4683
> >
> >"A court in France has ruled that British Tour companies are not allowed
> >to use ski hosts to show clients round the slopes. It believes skier
> >safety is compromsied. It is a test case and all ski hosting in France
> >is now banned."
>
> Hadn't seen that new result yet. We (Ski Club) were part of the
> earlier proceedings, as one of our leaders was also stopped and asked
> in for questioning at the same time as the incident that sparked this.
>
> In our case no further action was taken, presumably on the basis that
> no financial remuneration takes place for our volunteer leaders. Even
> so, we've changed our expenses system to ensure that (the very low)
> allowances are only paid after the event and on presentation of
> receipts.
It looks like they were after a single case to use as a test case. At
> On Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:15:56 GMT, Mike Clark <mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >I see the issue of French Protectionism for the ESF raises its ugly head
> >once again
> >
> >http://www.planetski.eu/news/4683
> >
> >"A court in France has ruled that British Tour companies are not allowed
> >to use ski hosts to show clients round the slopes. It believes skier
> >safety is compromsied. It is a test case and all ski hosting in France
> >is now banned."
>
> Hadn't seen that new result yet. We (Ski Club) were part of the
> earlier proceedings, as one of our leaders was also stopped and asked
> in for questioning at the same time as the incident that sparked this.
>
> In our case no further action was taken, presumably on the basis that
> no financial remuneration takes place for our volunteer leaders. Even
> so, we've changed our expenses system to ensure that (the very low)
> allowances are only paid after the event and on presentation of
> receipts.
present the Ski Club might be OK but I wonder how long before the
authorities do look to see if they can come up with a trumped up charge.
>
> As it happens, I have some sympathies with the French on this. I have
> seen, and skied with, unqualified ski hosts, and while mostly they do
> a reasonable job, some of them are frankly a menace. I recall one,
> from some years ago, whose idea of leading was - "we're going down
> here, see you at the bottom".
the instructor decided that only those who could keep up with him were
going to get any instruction.
> I don't agree that they need to be qulified ski instructors,
> particularly with the France-only rulng about having to do the 'test
> technique' to teach, but maybe something on a level with the BASI
> level one course (which is itself a lower standard than the Ski Club
> leaders training, for example) could be established...
>
that they put too much emphasis on the speed and technique of the
instructors skiing and not enough emphasis on their ability to teach or
empathise with their students. In my early years of skiing I had some
aweful experiences with ESF instructors and it wasn't until I started
taking lessons with some of the international ski schools that things
improved.
Mike
Ace
Feb 20, 2013, 10:00:28 AM2/20/13
to
On Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:05:19 GMT, Mike Clark <mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk>
wrote:
>In message <ioh9i8hn5tkt747j3...@4ax.com>
> Ace <b.ro...@ifrance.com> wrote:
>> In our case no further action was taken, presumably on the basis that
>> no financial remuneration takes place for our volunteer leaders. Even
>> so, we've changed our expenses system to ensure that (the very low)
>> allowances are only paid after the event and on presentation of
>> receipts.
>
>It looks like they were after a single case to use as a test case. At
>present the Ski Club might be OK but I wonder how long before the
>authorities do look to see if they can come up with a trumped up charge.
The club will be monitoring the situation carefully.
>> As it happens, I have some sympathies with the French on this. I have
>> seen, and skied with, unqualified ski hosts, and while mostly they do
>> a reasonable job, some of them are frankly a menace. I recall one,
>> from some years ago, whose idea of leading was - "we're going down
>> here, see you at the bottom".
>
>Funnily enough I've had a similar experience in an ESF ski class where
>the instructor decided that only those who could keep up with him were
>going to get any instruction.
Yes, it happens. The Swiss school here (in Engelberg, where I work
part-time as an instructor, BASI L2, for the smaller independent
skischool) has a few who really don't seem to give a toss.
>The problem with the French selection system for ESF has always been
>that they put too much emphasis on the speed and technique of the
>instructors skiing and not enough emphasis on their ability to teach or
>empathise with their students. In my early years of skiing I had some
>aweful experiences with ESF instructors and it wasn't until I started
>taking lessons with some of the international ski schools that things
>improved.
Quite. TBF I think the national/franchise schools have been improving
as well, but certainly in many places only as a result of competition
from newbies like us.
wrote:
>In message <ioh9i8hn5tkt747j3...@4ax.com>
> Ace <b.ro...@ifrance.com> wrote:
>> In our case no further action was taken, presumably on the basis that
>> no financial remuneration takes place for our volunteer leaders. Even
>> so, we've changed our expenses system to ensure that (the very low)
>> allowances are only paid after the event and on presentation of
>> receipts.
>
>It looks like they were after a single case to use as a test case. At
>present the Ski Club might be OK but I wonder how long before the
>authorities do look to see if they can come up with a trumped up charge.
>> As it happens, I have some sympathies with the French on this. I have
>> seen, and skied with, unqualified ski hosts, and while mostly they do
>> a reasonable job, some of them are frankly a menace. I recall one,
>> from some years ago, whose idea of leading was - "we're going down
>> here, see you at the bottom".
>
>Funnily enough I've had a similar experience in an ESF ski class where
>the instructor decided that only those who could keep up with him were
>going to get any instruction.
part-time as an instructor, BASI L2, for the smaller independent
skischool) has a few who really don't seem to give a toss.
>The problem with the French selection system for ESF has always been
>that they put too much emphasis on the speed and technique of the
>instructors skiing and not enough emphasis on their ability to teach or
>empathise with their students. In my early years of skiing I had some
>aweful experiences with ESF instructors and it wasn't until I started
>taking lessons with some of the international ski schools that things
>improved.
as well, but certainly in many places only as a result of competition
from newbies like us.
The Older Gentleman
Feb 20, 2013, 1:06:25 PM2/20/13
to
Mike Clark <mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> I see the issue of French Protectionism for the ESF raises its ugly head
> once again
>
> http://www.planetski.eu/news/4683
>
> "A court in France has ruled that British Tour companies are not allowed
> to use ski hosts to show clients round the slopes. It believes skier
> safety is compromsied. It is a test case and all ski hosting in France
> is now banned."
Yeah, saw that in the Times, and had an email today from my tour
> I see the issue of French Protectionism for the ESF raises its ugly head
> once again
>
> http://www.planetski.eu/news/4683
>
> "A court in France has ruled that British Tour companies are not allowed
> to use ski hosts to show clients round the slopes. It believes skier
> safety is compromsied. It is a test case and all ski hosting in France
> is now banned."
operator saying they can't show us around the resort next week.
--
Honda CB400 Four x3 Triumph Street Triple Ducati 800SS
BMW K100RS Yamaha 660 Tenere Suzuki GN250, TS250ER x3
So many bikes, so little garage space....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
Michael Chare
Feb 22, 2013, 7:30:39 AM2/22/13
to
On 20/02/2013 18:06, The Older Gentleman wrote:
> Mike Clark <mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> I see the issue of French Protectionism for the ESF raises its ugly head
>> once again
>>
>> http://www.planetski.eu/news/4683
>>
>> "A court in France has ruled that British Tour companies are not allowed
>> to use ski hosts to show clients round the slopes. It believes skier
>> safety is compromsied. It is a test case and all ski hosting in France
>> is now banned."
>
> Yeah, saw that in the Times, and had an email today from my tour
> operator saying they can't show us around the resort next week.
>
>
>
The subject has just been covered by 'You and Your's on Radio4 12:00 today.
> Mike Clark <mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> I see the issue of French Protectionism for the ESF raises its ugly head
>> once again
>>
>> http://www.planetski.eu/news/4683
>>
>> "A court in France has ruled that British Tour companies are not allowed
>> to use ski hosts to show clients round the slopes. It believes skier
>> safety is compromsied. It is a test case and all ski hosting in France
>> is now banned."
>
> Yeah, saw that in the Times, and had an email today from my tour
> operator saying they can't show us around the resort next week.
>
>
>
--
Michael Chare
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