I think I asked this question before, but the issue came back, so I thought I’d check again for ideas…
I have his problem with elbow pain which only seems to be related to poling. I never get it from, say, push-ups or roller board exercises. And while the latest re-occurrences have been related to roller skiing (skate), the first time I felt it was on snow going uphill a few years back. I think I’m being careful not to slam the poles into the pavement, and yet these days the pain re-occurs almost every weekend (for roller skiing, I’m a weekend warrior), and terrain doesn’t seem to matter – around here, it’s pretty flat. I feel this on the inside of the joint in both elbows.
As much as I enjoy the sport, I wouldn’t go for anything radical like surgery at this point. I’d appreciate ideas on good warm-ups (I don’t do anything special for elbows, just try to start gently) or maybe some topical stuff that hopefully doesn’t just relieve the symptoms but addresses the problem itself.
> I think I asked this question before, but the issue came back, so I > thought I’d check again for ideas…
> I have his problem with elbow pain which only seems to be related to > poling. I never get it from, say, push-ups or roller board exercises. > And while the latest re-occurrences have been related to roller skiing > (skate), the first time I felt it was on snow going uphill a few years > back. I think I’m being careful not to slam the poles into the > pavement, and yet these days the pain re-occurs almost every weekend > (for roller skiing, I’m a weekend warrior), and terrain doesn’t seem > to matter – around here, it’s pretty flat. I feel this on the inside > of the joint in both elbows.
> As much as I enjoy the sport, I wouldn’t go for anything radical like > surgery at this point. I’d appreciate ideas on good warm-ups (I don’t > do anything special for elbows, just try to start gently) or maybe > some topical stuff that hopefully doesn’t just relieve the symptoms > but addresses the problem itself.
> Thanks!
Hi Larry, I've same issue - only doublepoling on rollerskis - not on snow. It's o.k. if I rollerski only 1x or 2x a week. I was going to try this year special pole tip with suspension; made by Exel; haven't been able to get hold of it yet. Cheers, Mic
On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:51:10 -0700 (PDT), Larry <vmarfit...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>I think I asked this question before, but the issue came back, so I >thought I’d check again for ideas… [snip]
>As much as I enjoy the sport, I wouldn’t go for anything radical like >surgery at this point. I’d appreciate ideas on good warm-ups (I don’t >do anything special for elbows, just try to start gently) or maybe >some topical stuff that hopefully doesn’t just relieve the symptoms >but addresses the problem itself.
You should also consider changing the location of your elbows when you pole to see if that helps - trying them closer to your body, or stuck out more to the side. The latter is important to me in avoding elbow pain.
I'm tempted to say it's likely a technique issue, but then I know that we're each constructed a little differently and even good technique can sometimes lead to injury or exacerbate an already-existing one, especially on rollerskis. In my case, poor skate technique, in particular banging poles on pavement the first time for well over 2 hrs, injured my rotator cuffs forever.
Nonetheless, it's worth asking three technique questions: 1) at about what angle are your elbow joints when planting the poles? 2) at what angle are your elbows pointing relative to straight down? 3) How much of a role are your arms playing in double poling relative to your torso?
The best (if not correct), answers should be 1) bent at ~90 degrees, ranging from slightly less to more depending on the terrain/speed and individual characteristics
2) elbows pointing out 45 degrees or more, with relaxed shoulders (JFT is correct that straight down will limit pressure on the elbows; the downside is loss of upper body power that opening the elbows facilitates)
3) in current DP technique arms play a very limited role, mainly at the end of the stroke; ~80-85% of poling power should come at the beginning from abs and shoulders/lats, laterthen moving down through quads to the ankles and feet (knees over ankles)
Whether or not technique is at issue, I would (and do) head to a good sports PT right off and, if necessary, an orthopod (preferably a skier). A cortisone shot can help jump-start rehab. I'd also strongly suggest that until it's diagnosed and/or therapy is well underway, to stop poling entirely. It's a good chance to practice no-pole skating.
> I think I asked this question before, but the issue came back, so I > thought I’d check again for ideas…
> I have his problem with elbow pain which only seems to be related to > poling. I never get it from, say, push-ups or roller board exercises. > And while the latest re-occurrences have been related to roller skiing > (skate), the first time I felt it was on snow going uphill a few years > back. I think I’m being careful not to slam the poles into the > pavement, and yet these days the pain re-occurs almost every weekend > (for roller skiing, I’m a weekend warrior), and terrain doesn’t seem > to matter – around here, it’s pretty flat. I feel this on the inside > of the joint in both elbows.
> As much as I enjoy the sport, I wouldn’t go for anything radical like > surgery at this point. I’d appreciate ideas on good warm-ups (I don’t > do anything special for elbows, just try to start gently) or maybe > some topical stuff that hopefully doesn’t just relieve the symptoms > but addresses the problem itself.
Sorry to hear of your discomfort. On my last skiing trip, early this year, I felt on my pole early on, and that elbow was pretty much out of contention for the next couple of days. It sukks, so I feel for you. For me, pushups would not have been an option, the pain was general rather than specific, no big riddle there.
The specific conditions for your pain immediately make me think about pole length and geometry. Many things can be done wrong with poles in terms of geometry, and it seems most things ARE done wrong. Which person has wrists to perfectly align with a straight pole anyway? COmpare to walking sticks, those ancient things are actually made to be ergonomically correct. Much different hand/wrist position. I am just recovering from painful ankles myself, turns out I got them from flat feet. Insoles and motion control shoes are just getting me back on track, feeling like less of an old man. So, I'm inclined to guess that the way your wrists are now forced, could load your elbows out of whack. Under stain (and what strains more than an elbow poling?), I can see how this would end up hurting. There are not many options out there to try. Maybe some ergo style grips. There are those carbon add-on pole shafts that totally alter and extend the poles, seemingly popular. Did you ever try borrowing/renting poles in the next length up/down? Once something is wrong in sports fitting, it can be a bit of a riddle to find out. I wouldn't go under the knife just yet, until you've tried to find a more comfortable condition for that elbow.
Good luck! Do get back to tells us what ended up being the bugger?
Thanks guys. I'll try to take it easy for a while, though it's a bummer to have to slow down right when I was hoping to be speeding up for the season. Pole length is a curious question. Will have to find a way to test that.
Larry <vmarfit...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Thanks guys. I'll try to take it easy for a while, though it's a > bummer to have to slow down right when I was hoping to be speeding up > for the season. Pole length is a curious question. Will have to find a > way to test that.
> Thanks guys. I'll try to take it easy for a while, though it's a > bummer to have to slow down right when I was hoping to be speeding up > for the season. Pole length is a curious question. Will have to find a > way to test that.
Length is but 1 dimension only. There is grip tilt over 2 other dimensions. If you are a handy man, you might be able to bend a steel rod in some shaped to try and find a sweet spot. When I held the Force 10 poles, the immediately felt better for me. Grip pointing inwards. It's a one-part molded carbon shape, so they just made it the way that makes sense for them. Nothing about the human body is 90º or 180º any direction, or moves circular. Sporting goods however DO follow such geometry. Cheaper to make!
On Sep 29, 4:57 pm, Larry <vmarfit...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Thanks guys. I'll try to take it easy for a while, though it's a > bummer to have to slow down right when I was hoping to be speeding up > for the season. Pole length is a curious question. Will have to find a > way to test that.
If you had an important race coming up I would recommend cortizone shots. For long-term changes - keeping your elbows outside, planting the poles, rather than hammering, relying on the ab muscles rather than the triceps (see Gene's response)
On Sep 27, 9:51 pm, Larry <vmarfit...@yahoo.com> wrote: [ ]
> I have his problem with elbow pain which only seems to be related to > poling.[ ] I feel this on the inside > of the joint in both elbows.
Lots of good tips here.
Here's a couple more:
*consider using flexy, absorbent poles (I got pain once when rollerskiing regularly with carbon poles -- switched to alum and pain went away) (and do all those tips about techinque, planting -- and use SHARP SHARP tips to make planting easy!)
*consider using differently shaped grips (this looked to be mentioned already, from my glance over the replies, but consider going even kind of extreme -- install canoe paddle grips even or find a pair of those old canoe-grips that Swix (?) made in the 80's)
I have had occasional elbow pain for a few years, but it seems to be under control now. I never took expert advice, but the things that I have done, which I think helped me, were: Remove the immediate cause. For me, that was trying to be tough about not using more grip wax for my first few times on snow one winter. The resulting slips caused me to catch my weight on my poles, giving me sore elbows. Avoid aggravating it: be aware of how long I can go before it gets sore, and stop short of that. Strength training: dips and press-ups, and double-poling - always stopping short of making it sore. Rest and ice if it does get sore (I wish I had done that at the very start of it). I did not deliberately make any changes to technique, and attribute suffering less mainly to the more deliberate strength training that I have done since the problem started. Changing technique or your gear would probably also make sense. I used to get a very sore back after every mass-start race, until a coach suggested a change to my double- pole technique; that was so long ago that I don't remember what the change was, but I am also careful to do plenty of strengthening exercises for my back now. Hugh
I"d recommend the Excel shock-absorbing rollerski tips (available through "NordicSkater." They helped me a lot, even though at first the difference they makes seems subtle (it's a very strong spring).
They're designed for some special Excel pole system, but you can use plastic tubing to make them fit on a standard pole..
Does this spring change the feeling of the pole plant itself, spreading out the feeling of the plant from a single initial moment, to something bouncy or double actioned?
Jon <jonl...@gmail.com> wrote: > I"d recommend the Excel shock-absorbing rollerski tips (available > through "NordicSkater." They helped me a lot, even though at first > the difference they makes seems subtle (it's a very strong spring).
> They're designed for some special Excel pole system, but you can use > plastic tubing to make them fit on a standard pole..
>Does this spring change the feeling of the pole plant itself, >spreading out the feeling of the plant from a single initial moment, >to something bouncy or double actioned?
Definitely takes away the initial, sharp, shock--that's the main benefit. It's not bouncy, feels more like you're poling into a rubberized surface. As I said, it's a subtle difference in feeling, but definitely there.
(Another analogy is going from tightly strung synthetic tennis strings to natural gut. Just a little bit more cushiony for your joints.)
NB: As a caveat, I realize I've just used them for classical skiing. But the improvement is there in double poling, so I'd imagine you'd get the same benefits in skating.
I've been rollerskiing for over 25 years. Yeah, I don't rollerski all that much any more. Two times so far this fall... But I used to rollerski all summer long about four times per week with one rollerski each week of 50 kilometers. I always used aluminum poles. The old Swix Alulites worked great. They flexed enough and I never had elbow problems.
jtege...@msn.com wrote: > I've been rollerskiing for over 25 years. Yeah, I don't rollerski all > that much any more. Two times so far this fall... But I used to > rollerski all summer long about four times per week with one rollerski > each week of 50 kilometers. I always used aluminum poles. The old Swix > Alulites worked great. They flexed enough and I never had elbow > problems.
For me, the trade off with Alulites was blisters on my hands from the stopping their extra weight on the return.
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