Ski car?
gr
drive something. Any comments of which might be better in snow or
reliability; Subaru, Toyota, Honda CRV?
gr
runcyc...@yahoo.com
I am generally happy with my '02 Outback Sport. 140K miles with no
issues except for a bad O2 sensor and scheduled (expensive)
maintenance. Mileage is a bit low (~25 on a highway). I may go back to
a front wheel drive one when this one dies though. Every time I have a
flat non-repairable tire I have to get a whole new set, or shave a new
one to the correct diameter - pain in the rear.Haven't had issues with
the transmission yet, but replacing transmission on an manual AWD is
2x the amount for a manual front WD.
On a plus side - does the Subaru team still offer gifts for buying
their cars? I got a nice pair of Rudy Projects for mine back in '02 :)
ge...@none.net
see organizational discounts (PSIA, Costco). I drive a 1999 Outback
stick - the only way I'd buy it - and it does quite well on snow,
assuming good tires. Tho there are some things I like better about the
late 1990 models, there were common repair problems of the expensive
kind that weren't corrected until after about 2002 or 03 (head gasket,
crankseal leak, water pump, etc.). There should be some good deals out
there. The 2010 Outback has been widened and height increased in a way
that looks less stable and in appearance is virtually indistinguishable
from the Forester and Tribeca. Stay away from the turbo.
Gene
runcyc...@yahoo.com
> Concerning Subaru, there is no Subaru team anymore, tho here and there I
> see organizational discounts (PSIA, Costco). I drive a 1999 Outback
> stick - the only way I'd buy it - and it does quite well on snow,
> assuming good tires. Tho there are some things I like better about the
> late 1990 models, there were common repair problems of the expensive
> kind that weren't corrected until after about 2002 or 03 (head gasket,
> crankseal leak, water pump, etc.). There should be some good deals out
> there. The 2010 Outback has been widened and height increased in a way
> that looks less stable and in appearance is virtually indistinguishable
> from the Forester and Tribeca. Stay away from the turbo.
>
> Gene
>
> On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:57:07 -0800 (PST)
>
> > On Dec 15, 7:54 pm, gr <greif1-nospamh...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> > > I'm looking to replace my front wheel drive Odyssey with an all
> > > wheel drive something. Any comments of which might be better in
> > > snow or reliability; Subaru, Toyota, Honda CRV?
> > > gr
>
> > I am generally happy with my '02 Outback Sport. 140K miles with no
> > issues except for a bad O2 sensor and scheduled (expensive)
> > maintenance. Mileage is a bit low (~25 on a highway). I may go back to
> > a front wheel drive one when this one dies though. Every time I have a
> > flat non-repairable tire I have to get a whole new set, or shave a new
> > one to the correct diameter - pain in the rear.Haven't had issues with
> > the transmission yet, but replacing transmission on an manual AWD is
> > 2x the amount for a manual front WD.
> > On a plus side - does the Subaru team still offer gifts for buying
> > their cars? I got a nice pair of Rudy Projects for mine back in '02 :)
mine is manual, too. Good point on tires. My wife's Miata with snow
tires does better in the snow that the outback with all-season tires.
But I still get a free pass at checkpoints in the Sierras (no chains
required), they never really look at the tires.
femike99
We have an Odyssey that we've driven to ski for the past several year,
but it's been dicey some times. We recently traded in our FWD Element
in for a Pilot. We drove up through Tug Hill and about 30" of snow
this past weekend, it was great! Why go small and equally as
expensive (both in initial and long term costs) with a Scooby Doo?
highpeaksnordic
I've never been clear why people feel they need all wheel drive.
After 20+ years of Adirondack winter driving (never being stuck),
front wheel drive with 4 really good snow tires has proven to be a
killer combination. It rarely is an issue of getting going (or going
fast) - it is all about braking, stopping and cornering. All wheel
drive vehicles usually score poorly in these departments, largely due
to their size, wheelbase and additional weight. That said, I hear
nothing but good things about the Toyota RAV 4 - built on the Camry
platform with similar performance and reliability. I happen to
dislike vans and SUV's, a true 4 doors and trunk kinda guy!
As a former Saab / Subaru mechanic, Gene's comments are spot on.
Based on other family members recent experience w/ Outback wagons,
their repair costs are still quite high.
Tires? Blizzaks are nice tires but they ride like marshmallows on dry
pavement and their "Multi-Cell" compound doesn't last that long.
Nokian Hakk's are great tires, but too hard and loud for my tastes.
The old Michelin Arctic Alpin's were killer tires, I'm now running
their X-ice studless snows and they appear to be a winner (# 1 rating
in the recent Consumer Reports test). If you can stand the noise,
steel studded tires from just about anyone work great.
HTH,
- Bob
Jim
1984 FWD Saab 900 with 4 snow tires in the winter and a 1998 AWD
Subaru Outback with all-season tires. Both cars had standard
transmission (in 46 years of driving I've never actually owned an
automatic). For me the Outback has performed MUCH better than the
Saab climbing hills on snowy roads, so you can count me as one who's
totally sold on AWD. I'm not sure about the relative performance with
cornering and stopping, but I never had trouble with either.
gr
benefit? My Odyssey was my first with traction control and antilock
brakes, which were a giant leap forward for winter driving... so I
wonder if manual vs auto is still a concern.
Gary
Terje Mathisen
If money is no object, you could probably look very hard to find
anything better than a Volvo XC (90/70/60).
You could at the very least expect it to run for 15+ years. :-)
Terje
--
- <Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no>
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
Terje Mathisen
> Tires? Blizzaks are nice tires but they ride like marshmallows on dry
> pavement and their "Multi-Cell" compound doesn't last that long.
> Nokian Hakk's are great tires, but too hard and loud for my tastes.
> The old Michelin Arctic Alpin's were killer tires, I'm now running
> their X-ice studless snows and they appear to be a winner (# 1 rating
> in the recent Consumer Reports test). If you can stand the noise,
> steel studded tires from just about anyone work great.
Studded tires are not the same, but the winners are from the same group
as above, i.e. Nokia, Michelin, Blizzak.
I just replaced (after 3 seasons) the studded winter tires on our front
drive Opel (i.e. Euro GM), having the "latest & greatest" does make a
very nice difference when driving up in the mountains. :-)
Terje Mathisen
> I notice several have mentioned manual instead of auto. Is this a
> benefit? My Odyssey was my first with traction control and antilock
> brakes, which were a giant leap forward for winter driving... so I
> wonder if manual vs auto is still a concern.
Much less of a concern than it used to be, the electronics do help quite
a bit.
Terje
(Our last two cars have been automatics, before that we always had
manual trannies. It really helps when my wife is driving, it used to
drive me nuts when she insisted on leaving it in 4th gear on the highway
even when the engine was obviously crying out for some relaxing time in
5th. :-)
catsn...@verizon.net
others have mentioned, repair costs are substantial. It's an expensive
car to own - keep in mind you are buying a "luxury" car in many ways
with an Outback. But for me, it's worth the extra $100 or so a month
to know that I can drive to Stowe and not worry about getting
stranded, or go wherever, whenever in winter. One accident with a
Honda and you've paid back that $1200/year of ownership costs, IMHO.
Especially if it's an accident where you are injured and can no longer
SKI! :)
ge...@none.net
Fusion, Charger). The Mazda was easily the peppiest, but for
responsiveness when needed, such as hill acceleration and engine
braking - and beating the bratty kid trying to slide by on the right
off the light :-) - I'll go with a stick anytime. Perhaps the CVT cars
(e.g., Prius) matches it or more. I'd definitely not buy a Subie
4-cylinder AT.
Gene
Gunde
I love my Honda Element with Blizzak tires. Even with all-season
radials it is a nice snow truck. It is steady and plows through ruts
and powder with confidence.
Bonus: I can sleep in it, even with a big ski bag. And it cleans up
easy. Non-bonus: 25-27mpg.
Bob
> I haven't driven automatics for many years except for rentals (Mazda 6,
> Fusion, Charger). The Mazda was easily the peppiest, but for
> responsiveness when needed, such as hill acceleration and engine
> braking - and beating the bratty kid trying to slide by on the right
> off the light :-) - I'll go with a stick anytime. Perhaps the CVT cars
> (e.g., Prius) matches it or more. I'd definitely not buy a Subie
> 4-cylinder AT.
My '03 AT 4cyl Outback does just fine. I wouldn't want to tow a boat
with it, but it climbs from sea level to 7000+ feet as fast as the speed
limit allows. I also get a little over 26mpg. Of course, I get more
conservative in my driving as get older, so maybe the youngsters would
find the Subie unsatisfying ;-)
Bob
ge...@none.net
AT... ;-)
Gene
highpeaksnordic
We got way off topic here, so here's my car-specific comments (most
with 4 snow tires):
VW Passat - not so great in snow or slick roads
Chrysler Mini-vans - surprisingly agile and sure footed
Ford Focus - like a little tractor
Pontiac Vibe - a little better than the Focus
Toyota Camry - best of the bunch
Toyota Corolla - surprisingly good with no snow tires
BMW 320 - helpless
Chevy Impala - pretty decent w/ all season tires
Ford Crown Vic (yes, Police Interceptor model!) - pretty decent w/ all
season tires
jri...@rochester.rr.com
gr-
all of the cars you listed will be fine in the snow if you equip them
with winter approved tires. Awd/4wd will be better than 2wd - if
equipped with winter tires. Front wheel drive with 4 winter tires is
better than awd/4wd without winter tires.
The bigger difference will be frequency of repair, reliabilty & repair
costs. The Toyota and Honda products are the ones that break the least
and cost the least to operate. There may be a particular car from
another manufacturer that can compare to Honda & Toyota- but not a
complete line of cars.
I would choose the Honda or Toyota that fits your individual wants and
needs the best and buy it. Then purchase 4 winter tires and 4 winter
wheels and go ski!!
Joe
ah...@no-spam-panix.com
highpeaksnordic> On Dec 15, 10:54�pm, gr <greif1-nospamh...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>> I'm looking to replace my front wheel drive Odyssey with an all wheel
>> drive something. Any comments of which might be better in snow or
>> reliability; Subaru, Toyota, Honda CRV?
highpeaksnordic> We got way off topic here, so here's my car-specific comments (most
highpeaksnordic> with 4 snow tires):
highpeaksnordic> VW Passat - not so great in snow or slick roads
highpeaksnordic> Chrysler Mini-vans - surprisingly agile and sure footed
highpeaksnordic> Ford Focus - like a little tractor
highpeaksnordic> Pontiac Vibe - a little better than the Focus
highpeaksnordic> Toyota Camry - best of the bunch
highpeaksnordic> Toyota Corolla - surprisingly good with no snow tires
highpeaksnordic> BMW 320 - helpless
I have never gotten stuck in my BMW 330xi. Last year I drove three miles
in 18 inches of fresh powder on a very hilly road. I had a big bow wave of
snow coming over the hood, but the car did not waver.
Our driveway has a 90 degree turn followed by a 20% grade for about 30 feet,
again, for 7.5 winters the BMW has made it up every time.
highpeaksnordic> Chevy Impala - pretty decent w/ all season tires
highpeaksnordic> Ford Crown Vic (yes, Police Interceptor model!) - pretty decent w/ all
highpeaksnordic> season tires
--
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in rec.skiing.nordic...)