OT Anybody familiar with propeller powered skiing?

John Doe

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Jul 22, 2010, 8:31:32 PM7/22/10

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Of course I can do the research, but does anyone offhand have
experience or information about propeller powered skiing?

Thanks.

--
If possible, please do not advise about safety concerns, safety
concerns are not a problem when you are theorizing.

Bob F

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Jul 22, 2010, 10:15:16 PM7/22/10

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John Doe wrote:
> Of course I can do the research, but does anyone offhand have
> experience or information about propeller powered skiing?
>

I saw a guy years ago zooming up hill with a backpack engine/prop rig.

twobuddha

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Jul 22, 2010, 11:14:44 PM7/22/10

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On Jul 22, 5:31 pm, John Doe <j...@usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
> Of course I can do the research, but does anyone offhand have
> experience or information about propeller powered skiing?
>
> Thanks.

Yes. When skiing in powder, I wear my propeller beanie. If the wind
is right, it generates enough lift to help me float a lot better.

John Doe

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Jul 23, 2010, 1:05:14 AM7/23/10

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> John Doe wrote:

During some research yesterday, I came across a backpack mounted
propeller for inline skating, a bunch mounted on bicycles, and
some larger displacement backpack propellers for paragliding
(outrageous, the way they take off). I suppose the backpack
propeller would be the same general idea for skiing.

John Doe

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Jul 23, 2010, 1:12:09 AM7/23/10

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twobuddha <scottabe hotmail.com> wrote:

> John Doe <j...@usenetlove.invalid> wrote:

>> Of course I can do the research, but does anyone offhand have
>> experience or information about propeller powered skiing?

> Yes. When skiing in powder, I wear my propeller beanie. If the

> wind is right, it generates enough lift to help me float a lot
> better.

Why wouldn't propeller power work for skiing?

Friction is extremely low? Pushing is a pain? You cannot use any
sort of ground contact propulsion?

Is there more friction on skis than on inline skates?

Just curious.

John Doe

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Jul 23, 2010, 1:14:32 AM7/23/10

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And speaking of paragliding... The "speed riding" or whatever you
want to call it, paragliding while downhill skiing, that is some
awesome stuff.

Jan Gerrit Klok

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Jul 25, 2010, 6:45:07 AM7/25/10

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If you have ground contact, through a downsided snowmobile track of
sorts, you could use any present wind to boost your speed through a
propellor.
You need to have either headwind or tailwind for this, NOT the kind you
generate yourself, it has to be the air moving over the surface.
With tailwind, the snowmobile track need to be linked such that it
drives the propellor. If the losses are not too great, this can propel
you beyond the speed of the wind, downwind. Take my word for it, or
research "DDWFTTW".

With headwind, the propellor need to be a turbine, geared quite
differently from the above example, and drive the surface tracks. With a
really low friction system, one might approach wind speed, while going
straight into it. Again, believe me or research it ("Aeolus Race").
And of course, while you're on your skis, sailing the tail- or
headwinds, nothing keeps you from adding some extra speed in more
traditional XC ways.

And then there's the option to build a wind ski that sits in the classic
tracks, and used wind from the wind to go a multiple of the wind speed.
Not so nice with other people on the tracks :-)
If you're sure footed, I can imagine a vertically pivoting, spring
centered tail finn, than would automatically turn wind from the side
into forward propulsion. Nice to have on your back or bahind the legs.
With tail- or headwind it only gets in the way a bit.

--
Jan Gerrit Klok

Scottum

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Jul 25, 2010, 11:03:56 AM7/25/10

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The only thing that could generate enough lift for your fat ass is a
Sikorsky S-64 Skycrane. Besides, everyone knows you can't ski powder
anyway.

John Doe

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Jul 30, 2010, 3:40:18 AM7/30/10

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Powered paragliding paramotors...

snowboarding
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-f1gpPAMXs

skiing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCaFUVSFVlA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y0_dX2hDNA

--
Removed the Alpine group.

John Doe

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Jul 30, 2010, 5:00:28 AM7/30/10

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Jan Gerrit Klok <Jan.Gerrit.Klok.691cc18 skibanter.com> wrote:

> John Doe;149202 Wrote:

>> And speaking of paragliding... The "speed riding" or whatever
>> you want to call it, paragliding while downhill skiing, that is
>> some awesome stuff.
>
> If you have ground contact, through a downsided snowmobile track
> of sorts, you could use any present wind to boost your speed
> through a propellor. You need to have either headwind or
> tailwind for this, NOT the kind you generate yourself, it has to
> be the air moving over the surface. With tailwind, the
> snowmobile track need to be linked such that it drives the
> propellor. If the losses are not too great, this can propel you
> beyond the speed of the wind, downwind. Take my word for it, or
> research "DDWFTTW".
>
> With headwind, the propellor need to be a turbine, geared quite
> differently from the above example, and drive the surface
> tracks. With a really low friction system, one might approach
> wind speed, while going straight into it. Again, believe me

No, thanks, I believe science with respect to such matters. I have
a keen sense for telling when someone is trying to baffle me with
bullshit, and can tell that the preachers of this concept are full
of it.

That last one is a killer. The idea that you can head directly
into the wind, and the stronger the headwind, the faster you can
go... Very funny, not quite LOL funny, so do not quit your day
job.
--

> or research it ("Aeolus Race").
> And of course, while you're on your skis, sailing the tail- or
> headwinds, nothing keeps you from adding some extra speed in more
> traditional XC ways.
>
> And then there's the option to build a wind ski that sits in the classic
> tracks, and used wind from the wind to go a multiple of the wind speed.
> Not so nice with other people on the tracks :-)
> If you're sure footed, I can imagine a vertically pivoting, spring
> centered tail finn, than would automatically turn wind from the side
> into forward propulsion. Nice to have on your back or bahind the legs.
> With tail- or headwind it only gets in the way a bit.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jan Gerrit Klok
>

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> From: Jan Gerrit Klok <Jan.Gerrit.Klok.691cc18 skibanter.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.skiing.nordic
> Subject: Re: OT Anybody familiar with propeller powered skiing?
> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:45:07 +0000
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Terje Mathisen

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Jul 30, 2010, 6:37:52 AM7/30/10

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John Doe wrote:
> That last one is a killer. The idea that you can head directly
> into the wind, and the stronger the headwind, the faster you can
> go... Very funny, not quite LOL funny, so do not quit your day
> job.

Please take a look at /. a few months ago: Such a contraption has indeed
been built, it took me quite a while to accept that it could work.

I just googled around a bit, here's one link to a thread:

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/projects-proposals/windmill-wind-turbine-powered-boats-how-many-out-there-they-viable-14182.html

Terje

--
- <Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no>
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

John Doe

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Jul 30, 2010, 7:19:48 AM7/30/10

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Terje Mathisen <"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> wrote:

> John Doe wrote:

>> That last one is a killer. The idea that you can head directly
>> into the wind, and the stronger the headwind, the faster you
>> can go... Very funny, not quite LOL funny, so do not quit your
>> day job.
>
> Please take a look at /. a few months ago: Such a contraption
> has indeed been built, it took me quite a while to accept that
> it could work.

You were convinced by a YouTube video.

The Internet assertion has been around since at least 2006. When
can we expect commercial sailing products? Any United States
patents?

I believe it is part of some joke warfare.
--

Terje Mathisen

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Jul 30, 2010, 11:22:48 AM7/30/10

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John Doe wrote:
> Terje Mathisen<"terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"> wrote:
>
>> John Doe wrote:
>
>>> That last one is a killer. The idea that you can head directly
>>> into the wind, and the stronger the headwind, the faster you
>>> can go... Very funny, not quite LOL funny, so do not quit your
>>> day job.
>>
>> Please take a look at /. a few months ago: Such a contraption
>> has indeed been built, it took me quite a while to accept that
>> it could work.
>
> You were convinced by a YouTube video.

No video involved, the original link was a lot more persuasive, and
entailed moving on land (think salt flat) instead of water, i.e. far
smaller losses.

>
> The Internet assertion has been around since at least 2006. When
> can we expect commercial sailing products? Any United States
> patents?
>
> I believe it is part of some joke warfare.

Might be.

I have however been amazed previously when something which I believed to
be "obviously impossible" turned out to be doable after all, so I'll
leave this one in the open category.

runcyc...@yahoo.com

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Aug 6, 2010, 11:23:14 AM8/6/10

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what, a real post which does not advertise shoes?

~20 years ago I saw an episode on Russian public TV about propeller-
powered XC skiing. They used gasoline engines (of course), I would say
5-10 hp. I would call this a pretty wasteful way of self-propelling on
snow (even worse than schmomobiling).

lal_truckee

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Aug 6, 2010, 2:06:38 PM8/6/10

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On 7/22/10 5:31 PM, John Doe wrote:
> Of course I can do the research, but does anyone offhand have
> experience or information about propeller powered skiing?

Been tried, but impractical.

If you are after tour range, better are traction kites for heavy touring
and moderate uphill. See articles in Backcountry back issues on a Baffin
Bay Ice tour hitting first descents (and of course first ascents
preceding) of the couloirs that line the Bay.

Message has been deleted

lal_truckee

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Aug 6, 2010, 3:33:43 PM8/6/10

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On 8/6/10 11:56 AM, Ted Waldron wrote:
> In article<i3hivh$n8c$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,

> I remember Reinhold Messner did a traverse of Antarctica or part of a
> crossing with a traction kite. The problem is wind picks up at
> certain times of day, and different locations. It is better to rely on
> one's cardio vascular for proportion.
>
> Personally, one should buy some skins, some skin glue, start ascending..
>
> Do some spinning, climbing, and bike up some serious grades in the off
> season, than try to use a weak boat engine with a larger propeller on
> one's back, it is a better investment, and better for one's health.

At my age a major part of any conditioning effort is finding a youngish
horse and conditioning him to not complain about always leading when
breaking trail. <grin>

>
> It also makes the descent more worthwhile, because one climbs all the
> day for a great 1000 metre or more ski run..

The Real Bev

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Aug 6, 2010, 6:38:00 PM8/6/10

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That's an awful lot of trouble; I find the simplest solution to the
problem is to look around and find a nice lift.

>> It also makes the descent more worthwhile, because one climbs all the
>> day for a great 1000 metre or more ski run..

I'm sorry, that sounds like WORK! I'm willing to believe the theory
that you value something more when you work for it, but I think that
getting up at 5:00 am and driving 90 miles to the mountain is PLENTY
enough work to make me appreciative.

--
Cheers, Bev
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Nothing in the universe can withstand the relentless application
of brute force and ignorance." -- Frd, via Dennis (evil)

runcyc...@yahoo.com

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Aug 15, 2010, 12:41:48 PM8/15/10

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> That's an awful lot of trouble; I find the simplest solution to the
> problem is to look around and find a nice lift.
>

oh, rec.skiing.alpine, rec.skiing.nordic. That explains it.