Any fresh news about Salmon Hill?
gr
www.rochesternordic.org
and would like to include any new info as to the status of Salmon Hills.
gr
rec.skiing.nordic
Hmmm.
Salmon Hills website appears to be down.
I tried calling them at their listed phone number (315) 599-7008 and
received canned message that the number had been
disconnected. Are they out-of-business?
Willie
Salmon Hills is a very nice ski area. I have been following the
discussion of the current status of the ski area.
Hans the owner also owns High Point Ski Area in Northern NJ. Up until
now, on the High Point Website, he linked information about Salmon
Hills. Looking at the site today, there is no mention what-so-ever of
Salmon Hills. This is probably not a good sign for the future of
Salmon Hills at least under his management.
Sledhound
Well,
Roy Smith here.
I left Salmon Hills in February and as of approx. April, "The Bank"
was searching out KIM (the one on paperwork) to sign the forclosre
papers.
Thats all I got for ya. NO WAY will you see the SAME owners back this
year and probably VERY doubtfull you will see anybody open it this
year considering the bad rap its had since Liz owned the place. Like
Hugh (from Osceola) mentioned to me last month, best thing that could
happen to SH's is open it as a snowmobile Heaven.
Happy Trails
Roy Smith
femike99
Thanks Roy - I will miss seeing you this year.
Obviously, Hugh doesn't want SH to re-open for ski. It's his primary
competition in the area (if you don't count Winona Forest). It would
be a shame to let SH go to the snowmobilers. Nothing against them,
it's just a nice ski area.
I'm not sure about "bad rap" - that was before my time. But, it's
certain that Kim and Hans were not very interested in SH since Kim was
from Jersey and neither liked the drive up to SH during the winter.
The place was in some disrepair over the two seasons that we
frequently visited and stayed with little money going back into the
place for maintenance on the grounds, buildings, and Piston Bully.
It's likely that when they purchased the "resort" when it was in
foreclosure the first time that they had a poor business plan. Within
100 miles (2 hours, even in the winter in Upstate NY), there is
population of nearly 2 million. Much more could have been done from a
marketing standpoint because the venue has much potential.
Oh, well...let's hope for snow anyways.
Michael V
Webster, NY
runcyc...@yahoo.com
From a private communication with Hans, the place has suffered from a
bad case of vandalism 2 years ago from which the place could never
recover.
catsn...@verizon.net
probably ever) at Salmon Hills on April 12, 2009. It was pretty
obvious then that the current owner has milked the place for all its
worth and has no intention of reopening. He can blame it on vandalism
all he wants, fact remains that he put nothing into SH.
I wrote a blog post about how much that last visit upset me. I've
posted it below. Maybe some will find my experience resonates with
theirs:
Salmon Hills opened in '96 - Liz Turner and her husband Hans borrowed
heavily to open it and it was an absolute dream come true for XC
skiiers. Every single thing about that place was attended to. It was
clearly a dream come true for someone who likes or loves winter. They
really thought of every single detail that would make a winter resort
perfect and then made it a reality.
There was a yurt village with 5 yurts and a community/kitchen yurt.
The yurts had private baths, couches, bunk beds, electricity. The
community yurt had a full kitchen and large tables so people could
cook their meals. It had games for the kids and couches for hanging
out. The yurt village also had a large yurt where you could pay $35
for a bed space - sort of like a hostel.
The yurt village had an outdoor hottub. When you arrived you signed up
for a 30 minute block at the hot tub so you had privacy. No bathing
suit required!
Then there were motel rooms that were nicer, more private, if you
wanted a motel experience with TV and housekeeping. The motel area
also had its own hot tub.
The ski trails were not huge, only about 35K but they had dreams of
expanding. The grooming was the best I've ever experienced. They had
excellent grooming equipment and Hans started grooming at 4am every
day. No kidding. By 9am that entire place was meticulously groomed and
when it snowed he went out again.
They had LIT night skiing - something I've never seen anywhere else.
They had a 2K run with bright lights all around it so you could do
night skis before or after your hottubbing. :) It's absolutely
beautiful to ski at night - so eerie and quiet. Incredible.
The resort also had a tubing hill. Huge tubes and you could get pulled
to the top by their "tube lift". So when you were exhausted and
couldn't ski anymore, you could throw on the snowpants and go out and
tube to your heart's content.
They also had yurts out on the trails - you had to ski to them and
then you stayed overnight out on the ski trail - I never tried it but
I'm sure it was peaceful and beautiful.
It lacked nothing - truly a paradise for people who enjoy winter. I
LOVED going there with all my heart. I had a seasons pass two years in
a row when I lived closer (100 miles o/w!). One year I was the first
skiier of the year - called in "sick" to work and went in when I heard
they had gotten 10".
Liz became my friend. She was a kindhearted woman who understood
hospitality. I usually skiied alone so spent lunchtimes talking with
her. I never knew her to ski, although I know she once was a skiier.
She lived, ate and slept Salmon Hills. She'd say to me that she'd
stayed on the property for two or three weeks at a time without being
able to leave. The resort was always on the edge financially so rather
than hire people she and Hans did nearly all the work themselves,
which meant they were completely tied to it.
At some point things started to fray around the edges. One of the hot
tubs broke and wasn't fixed. Then the second hot tub broke and also
wasn't fixed. The last time I saw her Liz seemed frantic. She had a
group of women there for a weekend but she said she desperately needed
them to spend money in the ski shop.
In October of 2003 they finally lost it. The bank foreclosed, saying
that they were owed over a million dollars on the property.
Salmon Hills stayed closed for several months and was leased then
purchased by a couple from Albany. I don't know what happened next but
I assume that couple must have ransacked the place. Salmon Hills was
foreclosed on a second time and up for bank auction within seven
months. Pretty amazing when you consider that it would take several
months for the bank to move on a bankruptcy. The new owners must have
literally never made one loan payment to the bank.
At the second foreclosure, Salmon Hills by a guy from NJ at the
auction for $290,000. The bank lost over 1 million dollars.
Apparently, although Liz and Hans had left it relatively intact,
Salmon Hills was in bad shape just one year later. Nearly every trail
sign had been shot out by gunfire. The rental and sales shop were
empty. The lodge had been looted and vandalized. Leaks in the roof had
damaged some of the buildings.
Today the place is falling down. The new owner doesn't seem to love
Salmon Hills or appreciate what it was or the vision behind it in any
way. His lack of caretaking is so heartbreaking for me that I'm
actually not even certain I ever want to go back there again.
He hasn't even fixed those shot-out trail signs. Five years after this
guy bought it, those broken old signs remain out on the trails today,
holding a sort of vigil over the slow death of this once beautiful
place.
I was there one day when Liz's daughter brought in some of her ski
clothes and medals to the ski lodge. (Liz died of cancer after leaving
SH.) I don't know what her daughter thought - I guess that maybe the
new owners would put up a memorial of sorts in the lodge to Liz. After
all, that place was her hard work come to life. It would be fitting
to have a way to honor her there. Of course, the new owner hasn't
bothered. He's clearly not interested in anything but bilking the
place of every last dime until every building falls in on itself.
There is no where to escape the sadness of that place. It permeates
every building, every trail. The broken signs that litter the trails
are just the beginning.
The yurt village is literally falling down. The two-story yurt had its
top story blown off in a storm last fall. So there it sits, rain water
pours through it. Destroyed furniture on the first floor. A shell
reminder of what once was. In the center of the village sits the old
hot tub enclosure. All the lights there are broken. The hot tub is
still there, sagging in the center under the weight of snow, the
stairs leading into it long since rotten and broken.
One of the yurts is closed off with a chain. The others have doors and
stairs so weathered you wonder how they'll make another season. The
railings are broken and hang down or lie on the ground. The heater in
the community yurt is broken so the water freezes every night. It's so
cold in there you can't really cook a meal and eat it comfortably. A
broken stove sits there still, half taken apart, the refrigerators are
both gone. Three ancient and only half-working toasters sit on top of
the broken stove.
Being in the yurt village is like being in a dying town. It's hard to
imagine that people even stay there anymore. It used to be completely
full every weekend in winter. I can't picture that anymore. They've
taken all of the couches out of the yurts and put them into the
community yurt and thrown the old bunk beds from the two-story yurt
into the smaller ones. So if you stay there it's all beds and no where
to sit at all.
The grooming is no longer top quality. The day we were there the
owners son went out on a snowmobile and ruined the trails. The days of
4am grooming are long gone.
The yurts out on the trail are gone. All that remains are the
platforms, which are falling down. One has collapsed in on itself. The
platform still has an old sign with a snowman on it that says "Let it
Snow". I imagine Liz and Hans putting it up not so many years ago,
back when things were hopeful there.
The lights on the trail haven't worked in years. Some are broken,
others dangle off the trees from their cords. The motel hot tub has
been removed, the trellis around it gone, leaving less weathered wood
where it once was, just a subtle reminder to the people of what used
to be.
The tubing hill is closed, the "lift" apparently sold off along with
the tubes. There are still signs pointing to it, and it appears on
the trail map still. Another reminder of a dream that apparently no
one remembers or cares about anymore.
I don't know if it would be as sad if Liz hadn't lost her husband and
her life in addition to the business, but it might be. This place
wasn't built as a money maker, it was built as a showplace for winter.
Watching it die a slow but accelerating death as nature takes back the
buildings and the land is painful. Knowing the human story behind it
just adds to the sense of loss I feel when I'm there.
ge...@none.net
in the winter of 2000-01 while I was working as Asst Nordic Director at
Lapland Lake and then as an instructor at Garnet Hill. I traveled over
there for a couple of days, stayed in the yurt and rode around at 4am
with Hans. Hans had previously worked the same position I had at LL and
I got the impression that he had taken time off from Salmon Hills to
take it, perhaps to get some money to support SH. In any case, there
was some tension between he and Liz, and she emphasized that she was the
owner.
Gene
Sledhound
LOL. FUNNY.
Yeah, vandalism did occur but a FAR CRY from its ultimate demise......
NO BUSINESS PLAN and horrible upkeep/mantenance and a lack of someone
(preferably owner/mgt.) living there. Bottom line.
Sledhound
wrote:
WEll, I have to agree with virtually all you've said with exception of
the grooming in past 3 seasons. I did the grooming (for the most part)
past 3 seasons. It was done to the best of my ability and was the best
its been in YEARS since Hans G. and FTR, I was OFTEN out on trails all
night and early A.M. hours. I guess you hit the place when I wasn't
there. Too bad. And yes, too many excuses from Hans why the trails
weren't groomed,etc. Hey, if the guy says we don't have enough snow or
'go home' early because he can't 'afford' to groom that day, then
that's what I did. not MY place he destroyed (although sad it is to
say).
The grooming was only a SMALL part of the entire operation's success
for failure, but the MOST IMPORTANT.
What it comes down to ultimately (besides the underlying fact Hans K.
is NO businessman) is the place needed $500K worth of upgrades/
maintenance (including the Pisten Bully) BEFORE the place even opened.
And that is a very conservative est.
Just for instance: Pisten Bully upgrade,Yurts, road upgrade, signage,
general maintenance,etc.
ALL THESE things should have been fixed well before the place was to
open.
The new owner NEVER fixed a THING and to THIS DAY never put a cent
into the place. Success for failure right from the get-go. Businessman
or no business man. But, if one doesn't live there (or have reliable/
knowledgeable staff doing so) or have a business sense in thier body
the place will fail!
Too bad for sure.
I personally think the place can still be a gold mine AND a nice place
to ski, regardless of the past history. However, it will be a HUGE
endeavor!
Seth C. Burgess
beautiful place. I think I might cry. And then pray.
Some photos of mine at Salmon Hills during late 2008:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2119419&id=24400354&l=18b72e72c1
C
wrote:
WOW.... I was just looking for the Salmon Hills web site...since it is
supposedly snowing 3 ft in NY. It kept coming up "unavailable," and I
wondered what that meant. I skied there in March of 2008.... there
were tons of LES so maybe I did not notice that things were
deteriorated, and I had never skied there before. It did seem a little
disorganized- some one did not always answer the phone and the cafe
ran completely out of food (!) one day, but I wasn't staying there, so
I thought maybe that was just a late season mess up. There was so much
snow when I was up, that most of the non-skiers around were removing
snow from roofs to keep them from caving in, which was happening a lot
in the area. The road in was plowed and salted and the trails were
mostly groomed. I thought it was a nice place. I am actually in NJ and
the strange thing is that Hans always spoke glowingly about it- the
snow if not all the amenities. At High Point, the snow cover varies a
lot from year to year, and there can be ice, but he would always say
"You should go to our other place, Salmon Hills..."