Utah Avalanche News? Leader Identified.
Bob.P...@mci.com
Following is taken from yesterday's Salt Lake City Tribune.
``If you go up there, the possibility of death exists, and you had better
be prepared for things to go wrong,'' says Justin Kittell, a 25-year-old
Sandy resident who writes for Snowboarding magazine. ``You can minimize that
threat, but you can't ever eradicate it.'' Kittell and four friends from New
England rested on their snowboards Saturday after making a run off Mount
Baldy near Snowbird. An avalanche cut loose as they watched Jeff Clement, the
final member of their fivesome, carve turns in the powder. ``It happened
instantly,'' recalls Kittel, who led the group of boarders from Vermont and
New Hampshire up the mountain. ``I turned around to watch Jeff and saw the
snow flying around him. I thought it was just the rooster tail from the
snowboard. It wasn't until the wall of snow hit me that I realized it was an
avalanche. ``I didn't hear it. It was like being hit by a huge wave. I
didn't register any pain. But it wasn't a blur . . . I was pretty aware of
what was going on and what I needed to do to survive. I felt it when I went
over a cliff. I tried to keep my board even or above my body because I know
it can drag you down. I was backstroking as hard as I could, swimming like
hell, trying to keep it up and stay prone.''
So, there we have it. Leader of the group. Writes for Snowboarder Magazine.
Lives in Sandy (right at the bottom of Little Cottonwood Canyon). Certainly
seems to be local, experienced, and most likely the one making the decisions.
I'll be the first to say it... the idiot has been fingered. The remainder of
the party were all from out of town, although they *were* dumb enough or naive
enough to follow this guy around.
Moron, thy name is Justin.
Bob
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Don Kellett
Bob.P...@mci.com wrote:
> snip
>
> So, there we have it. Leader of the group. Writes for Snowboarder Magazine.
> Lives in Sandy (right at the bottom of Little Cottonwood Canyon). Certainly
> seems to be local, experienced, and most likely the one making the decisions.
>
> I'll be the first to say it... the idiot has been fingered. The remainder of
> the party were all from out of town, although they *were* dumb enough or naive
> enough to follow this guy around.
>
> Moron, thy name is Justin.
>
> Bob
>
Why do I flash back to a childhood scene with my mom saying "So if all your
friends jump off the Brooklyn Bridge, are you gonna do it too?" Seems to have a
tie-in to Scott Abraham's earlier reference to parental upbringing and
responsibility.
Don Kellett
Pine CO
Vail - where the lemmings will go anywhere
SkiBumOne
1. area closed
2. no avalanche control
3. high to extreme avalanche danger
4. no beacons
5. no shovels
6. no helmets
7. no snow pit
8. no brains
9. no hope
Unfortunately, snowboarders seem to have a knack for proving Darwin correct.
This was merely an example, albeit a tragic one, of natural selection and
survival of the fittest. Just cause we've aged doesnt mean we've evolved.
I have great sympathy for this kid's death, but no one can deny it was
needless.
Scott Abraham
Tri-Ungulate wrote:
>
> > Seems to have a tie-in to Scott Abraham's earlier reference
> > to parental upbringing and responsibility.
>
> Yeah goddammit. All parents should teach their kids to take no risks
> whatsoever in life. None at all. Nope. Never. Never ever. Unh-uh. No way.
> Fuggedaboudit. Just be happy that we're keeping you safe in the basement
> little one. Don't sit too close to the TV there or you might ruin your
> eyes.
>
> Otherwise they're shitty parents.
C'mon, Launce. That's not fair.
My position is that some parents inadequately prepare their children to assess the
risks of life.
Many of those parents ARE shitty, treat their children as disposable and
valueless, and then we wonder why those children go out and treat themselves and
others as valueless.
To take it further, abused children find ways to numb pain, and risk is one very
easy way to do that.
Hell, I ain't against taking risks.
I'm just not a romantic fool about it, and I don't glorify it, and I don't respect
people simply because they take risks.
I've done the physical risk bit, nowadays I tend to take risks of the soul. Much
different, and different payoffs.
> >> ``If you go up there, the possibility of death exists, and you had better
> >> be prepared for things to go wrong,'' says Justin Kittell, a 25-year-old
> >> Sandy resident who writes for Snowboarding magazine. ``You can minimize that
> >> threat, but you can't ever eradicate it.''
>
> Like Bob sez, here's the real fuckwit. He certainly wasn't prepared for
> things to go wrong by the looks of it. As for "minimizing" the threat,
> he did quite the opposite by leading his out-of-town buds to a slide-prone
> area at a slide-prone time, being oblivious and clueless to the fact that
> they were clustered in a tight group in the slide path and forgetting to
> tell them about such extraneous things like self-rescue gear or avalanche
> fundamentals. Doubtful if he had enough of a clue to consult UAFC or dig a
> pit or anything like that. Duh. Double Duh. Doh!
Thank you.
Get off my ass, OK?
Buddha is the fucking Prophet, and he is ALWAYS right, because Vail guides him.
>
>
> >>``It happened instantly,'' recalls Kittel, who led the group of boarders
> from >> Vermont and New Hampshire up the mountain.
>
> Instantly, yeah. More like fucking clueless to the possibility that it
> could *ever* happen in the situation they were in, and surprised it could
> happen so fast. Sure, the Northeasterners made a dumb decision in trusting
> his judgement, but may not have known better. He was, after all, a local
> and a rad d00d _Snowboarder_ correspondent to boot. But he's especially
> culpable in this matter, easily falling into the category of fucking
> goddamn stoopid *willfully ignorant* idiot whose parents were probably too
> fucking goddamn stoopid themselves to have taught him better.
I could not agree more.
Still, if these kids were good enough to ski that slope (and I fully understood
why it is permanently closed after I saw its exposure), I'll bet they knew enough
about the mountains to realize they didn't have the gear or the preparation to be
out there.
>
> >> ``I'll go again [in the backcountry, said Kittell].
> >> I knew this could happen when I went up; I was aware of the risk.''
>
> If this shit-fer-brains eventually gets his ass terminally whupped with
> extreme prejudice in a slide under similar circumstances, I'll be *happy*
> to take Scott's position.
You just did.
Buddha rubs his belly in glee as another dumbfuck backcountry pinna sees the
light!
Vail Rewls!
Two Buddha
Vail: Next on Oprah: Why Buttdawg Skis Alta
Jennifer Logan
> OK, let's see if I've got this right:
> 1. area closed
the ski resorts (Alta/Snowbird) were not yet open, but it's public land and
therefore accessible to anyone who wants to hike -- and they do. The parking lot
at Alta was full that day.
> 2. no avalanche control
right.
> 3. high to extreme avalanche danger
moderate to high.
> 4. no beacons
yup.
> 5. no shovels
actually the local snowboarding magazine contributor had a shovel (or so it said
in the Tribune); apparently it's a bitchin' accessory for the extremers. Good
for building that snow bench at lunchtime, too.
> 6. no helmets; 7. no snow pit
doubtful (now what's this shovel for, anyway? oh yeah, snow caves!!)
> 8. no brains; 9. no hope
not in this case.
> Unfortunately, snowboarders seem to have a knack for proving Darwin correct.
No comment, besides the oft-used one about how sweeping generalizations don't
always apply. A few years ago, a skier died in a pre-season avalanche at
Snowbird. He was skiing alone in similar conditions and the avalanche carried
him over a couple of cliffs.
Ignorance doesn't correlate strictly with the number of planks strapped to one's
feet.
In addition:
Two friends who volunteer for Salt Lake County Search and Rescue happened to be
hiking at Alta that day and showed up immediately at the rescue ... their
comment was that anyone possessing even the most rudimentary routefinding skills
would have avoided their line like the plague. 35-40 degrees, rock city. The
victim died of trauma, not suffocation.
SkiBumOne
Jennifer Logan wrote in message <364CE46F...@hci.utah.edu>...
>SkiBumOne wrote:
>
>> OK, let's see if I've got this right:
>> 1. area closed
>
>the ski resorts (Alta/Snowbird) were not yet open, but it's public land and
>therefore accessible to anyone who wants to hike -- and they do. The
parking lot
>at Alta was full that day.
Maybe I am wrong (wont be the first time) but my understanding is that this
is permanently closed, off-limits no matter what the season terrain.
>> 2. no avalanche control
>
>right.
>
>> 3. high to extreme avalanche danger
>
>moderate to high.
Ummm, it is possible I err, but I recall reading the report from USFS
avalanche center Salt Lake for that day and the next, and it reported high
risk of human triggered and sympathetic release slides.
>> 4. no beacons
>
>yup.
>
>> 5. no shovels
>
>actually the local snowboarding magazine contributor had a shovel (or so it
said
>in the Tribune); apparently it's a bitchin' accessory for the extremers.
Good
>for building that snow bench at lunchtime, too.
>
>> 6. no helmets; 7. no snow pit
>
>doubtful (now what's this shovel for, anyway? oh yeah, snow caves!!)
>
>> 8. no brains; 9. no hope
>
>not in this case.
>
>> Unfortunately, snowboarders seem to have a knack for proving Darwin
correct.
>
>No comment, besides the oft-used one about how sweeping generalizations
don't
>always apply. A few years ago, a skier died in a pre-season avalanche at
>Snowbird. He was skiing alone in similar conditions and the avalanche
carried
>him over a couple of cliffs.
>Ignorance doesn't correlate strictly with the number of planks strapped to
one's
>feet.
How very true. Yet, looking over the reports on www.csac.org for the last
few years, I am saddened to note the disproportionately high number of
fatalities for snowboarders. Seems beacons, probes and shovels arent really
their way of life in the backcountry. Could be an age thing, dunno know.
Of course, those poor folks wiped out in Canada last year didnt ever see
that monster coming. Snowmobilers, snowboarders, skiiers, the white death
can get 'em all.
>In addition:
>Two friends who volunteer for Salt Lake County Search and Rescue happened
to be
>hiking at Alta that day and showed up immediately at the rescue ... their
>comment was that anyone possessing even the most rudimentary routefinding
skills
>would have avoided their line like the plague. 35-40 degrees, rock city.
The
>victim died of trauma, not suffocation.
I am betting it was head trauma. Being buried by two feet of snow while
being drug across the rocks at warp speed cant be too fun.
>
>
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Since these brain surgeons were on boards they
didnt have the luxury of probe poles. I should add a number ten:
10. No probes.
"Gee, I wonder where that dude is?" "Let's dig" "Where?" "With what?" "Wow
man, what a bummer" "Someone better find someone with more brains than us"
"Yeah, go get the dog, man"
Scott Abraham
Tri-Ungulate wrote:
>
> But I'll add my opinion (which doesn't really contradict yours) that
> risk-taking root behaviour is waaay more multifaceted, with environmental
> (not just parental) *and* genetic underpinnings (serotonin receptors and
> all).
I didn't want to write a book, or a journal paper. Might be interesting,
though....
"The Environmental Effects of Telemarking on Serotonin Receptors as Modified
by Excessive Ramen Consumption."
> My point in my last rant was that Kittell, leader of the party and local
> kewl _Snowboarder_ correspondent hero dork *should* have had that
> realization, but that the newbies from the east may be given some benefit
> of the doubt. Their main mistake was trusting an idjit. Too bad it was
> Clement's last.
Had a long chat about such risk taking tonight with none other than Mr. God
Sir Tim Petrick, discussing the Chugach (which is the closest the Buddha will
ever come, mind you).
Came to the same conclusion, basically.
Because if the Buddha ever is dumb enough to get out there, I'll be trusting
someone like Tim or Andrew or klaus, because I sure as hell don't know enough.
Part of being an idjit is that you trust other idjits.
>
>
> Vail - Next on Jerry Springer: My Crossdressing Alcoholic Sheep Left Me
> for an Abusive Relationship with Two Buddah
I did not abuse that ewe! She wanted to be spanked, and loved having the wool
pulled over her eyes!
Two Buddha
Vail: Where the one eyed idjit is king (or the Pride).
SkiBumOne
Tri-Ungulate wrote in message ...
>It's bad enough somebody dies in a
>slide (and condolences are warranted, IMO), but even more sad when it's
>the *inadvertantly ignorant* one rather than the *willfully clueless* >one.
Willfully clueless behaviour that proximately results in the death of
another is a crime in most states. Its called involuntary manslaughter or
reckless homicide. If you drive a car blindfolded and kill someone its
murder. If you shoot a gun in the air and the bullet comes down and kills
someone its murder. What is it when you knowingly lead a group, which might
be ignorant of the risk, into a high-risk, latent danger zone without the
most basic preparation or survival tools and the group encounters said high
risk and suffers a death as a result of your "willfully clueless
behaviour"????
>But I can already see the article in _Snowboarding_:
>
>"Ridin' the 'Lanche, Rewls - and So Do I"
>
> -- by Justin Kittell, R@d d00d
>
I actually hope Mr. Kittell keeps his job at snowboarding. That way he will
have wages to be garnished by the family of the dead d00d.
>> Vail Rewls!
Cottonwood Canyons-Common Sense Rewls
.
SkiBumOne
Scott Abraham wrote in message <364D182E...@earthlink.net>...
>
>
>Tri-Ungulate wrote:
>
>>
>> But I'll add my opinion (which doesn't really contradict yours) that
>> risk-taking root behaviour is waaay more multifaceted, with environmental
>> (not just parental) *and* genetic underpinnings (serotonin receptors and
>> all).
>
>I didn't want to write a book, or a journal paper. Might be interesting,
>though....
>"The Environmental Effects of Telemarking on Serotonin Receptors as
Modified
>by Excessive Ramen Consumption."
or "Telemarking as a Genetic Marker for Predisposition for Fetish Attraction
to Adhesive-Backed Fabric Segments (Duct Tape)"??
>> My point in my last rant was that Kittell, leader of the party and local
>> kewl _Snowboarder_ correspondent hero dork *should* have had that
>> realization, but that the newbies from the east may be given some benefit
>> of the doubt. Their main mistake was trusting an idjit. Too bad it was
>> Clement's last.
>
>Had a long chat about such risk taking tonight with none other than Mr. God
>Sir Tim Petrick, discussing the Chugach (which is the closest the Buddha
will
>ever come, mind you).
>Came to the same conclusion, basically.
>Because if the Buddha ever is dumb enough to get out there, I'll be
trusting
>someone like Tim or Andrew or klaus, because I sure as hell don't know
enough.
>
>Part of being an idjit is that you trust other idjits.
Unless someone is pulling the wool over your eyes!!!
>
>
>>
>>
>> Vail - Next on Jerry Springer: My Crossdressing Alcoholic Sheep Left Me
>> for an Abusive Relationship with Two Buddah
>
>I did not abuse that ewe! She wanted to be spanked, and loved having the
wool
>pulled over her eyes!
ROTFLMAO. Possibly the funniest Buddah-ism yet.
>
>Two Buddha
>
>Vail: Where the one eyed idjit is king (or the Pride).
>
I dont refer to mine as an idjit. He might get mad and not work when I want
him to.
SkiBumOne
klaus wrote in message <72k923$29k$1...@xmission.xmission.com>...
>SkiBumOne <skib...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Maybe I am wrong (wont be the first time) but my understanding is that
this
>> is permanently closed, off-limits no matter what the season terrain.
>
Well, I thought the land was USFS, and that they had marked it permanently
closed. Sorry Klaus, its not as free a country as we want it to be. I
believe it is a federal crime to be in permanently closed USFS terrain.
>
>> Ummm, it is possible I err, but I recall reading the report from USFS
>> avalanche center Salt Lake for that day and the next, and it reported
high
>> risk of human triggered and sympathetic release slides.
>
>High is not extreme and is not an avalanche warning. Also, the rating
>of the danger is very localized. Just because it is high doesn't mean
>it is high everywhere.
Somewhat true...But those USFS reports have been pretty accurate for LCC and
BCC. Call me chicken, but you wont find me out on 40degree slopes in
backcountry when the risk is "high" for human triggered and symp release. On
the day this happened, and the next, spontaneous and sympathetic releases
were the order of the day. The danger was more likely extreme. Evidenced
by the fact the exfiltration of the corpse had to be delayed due to
avalanche hazards.
>
>> How very true. Yet, looking over the reports on www.csac.org for the last
>> few years, I am saddened to note the disproportionately high number of
>> fatalities for snowboarders. Seems beacons, probes and shovels arent
really
>> their way of life in the backcountry. Could be an age thing, dunno know.
>
>Back in the early eighties, people were saying the same thing about
>all the new punk three pinners. Seems they grew up. And now, I end up
My point exactly. Thanks Klaus.
>trusting a lot of them with my life everytime I don't double check
>their pit.
At least someone dug a pit.
>
>> I am betting it was head trauma. Being buried by two feet of snow while
>> being drug across the rocks at warp speed cant be too fun.
>
>No reason to wear a helmet though. More dangerous in your car. That's
>why I have no respect for people that die in car accidents. They were
>asking for it and not using the proper gear.
>
>> Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Since these brain surgeons were on boards they
>> didnt have the luxury of probe poles. I should add a number ten:
>> 10. No probes.
>
>This would apply to most in the backcountry. Most people don't have
>probes (really surprises me) and probe poles are pretty much
>useless. Get a real one. The boarders I tour with have them. Has
>nothing to do with skis vs. boards.
>
>-klaus
>
>Vail-complies with all government safety regulations.
>
>
>
>
SkiBumOne
klaus wrote in message <72kc9a$98o$1...@xmission.xmission.com>...>Always. Do you have information to suggest they didn't?
>
Hard to dig a pit without shovels. Hard, not impossible, I guess.
Scott Abraham
Anthea wrote:
> Tri-Ungulate wrote:
>
> > My Crossdressing Alcoholic Sheep Left Me
> > for an Abusive Relationship with Two Buddah
>
> oh, how tragic.
>
> My condolences to the relatives.
The light finally went on.
Launce, you used to date Stumpy, eh?
Hey, man, I never touched her. Never
Though I abuse her at every opportunity.
TB
Vail: Smart men, foolish choices
Anthea
> My Crossdressing Alcoholic Sheep Left Me
> for an Abusive Relationship with Two Buddah
oh, how tragic.
My condolences to the relatives.
ant
Patrick Chase
|> I could not agree more.
|> Still, if these kids were good enough to ski that slope (and I fully
|> understood why it is permanently closed after I saw its exposure), I'll
|> bet they knew enough about the mountains to realize they didn't have
|> the gear or the preparation to be out there.
Maybe, but maybe not.
One thing about snowboarding is that it has a _very_ fast initial learning
curve. IMO, this can lead to a different balance of knowledge vs. ability
than you'd see with alpine or telemark skiing. With snowboarding, people
can take up the sport, do it for a year or less, and be capable of handling
VERY difficult terrain. An alpine or telemark skier would have to be
immersed in the sport for much, much longer to tackle equivalent terrain.
Those extra years of immersion are probably the biggest way that you
acquire the kinds of knowledge and snow-sense that will keep you alive in
the backcountry, or at least tell you when you're at risk. I think that
lack of such knowledge is what killed in this case, based on the
circumstances and the leader's comments: The victims were athletically
competent (meaning that they could handle the terrain), but they showed
an incredible lack of knowledge by going where they did when they did,
by positioning themselves such that a single slide could catch more than
one of them, and by not having proper rescue gear or knowledge to deal
with the aftermath (of course, given the lack of a mask over the victim's
face, fast rescue probably wouldn't have mattered anyway). The leader's
statements regarding the "inevitability" of avalanche risk further tells
me that he doesn't have the snow-sense or experience to distinguish a
high risk situation from a low risk one: As far as he's concerned, it's
all fate, and when your number's up it's up.
This isn't intended to be a slam on snowboarding: The fast initial learning
curve is the reason why I urge most of my first-time friends to take up
boarding instead of skiing. It is intended to point out that just because
the athletic learning curve of the sport is faster, and that you're
technically capable of riding a given slope, doesn't mean that you've
spent enough time around the sport to be proficient in other regards. Just
because your leader happens to be a great snowboarder (and a correspondent
for "Snowboarder") doesn't mean that he's paid his dues, either.
Regards,
Patrick
Throckey
>
>However, in this particular case, the group may not have sought it anywhere.
>In the wake of the four teens who died outside Canmore last fall the
>Canadians are making a large-scale effort to introduce some basic awareness
>of avalanches through the public school system. On a province-wide if not
>nation-wide scale.
>
>Whose role is it to teach young people these basics, and how should it be
>done?
>
We at the morally conservative Throckmorton Institute believe
that *Abstinence* is the only Avalanche Protection that should
be taught to our young people.
You see, teaching about avalanche conditions, digging hasty
pits, and practice searches sends a message to our young people
that it's *okay* to be in the backcountry. This runs contrary
to Biblical teaching, and can only further erode the sagging
morals of our ungodly society.
Backcountry skiing before marriage is a sin. The Lord gave us
avalanches to remind us of this fact.
-B
Vail-And no coveting thy neighbor's ass either!
Avalanche Center (CSAC)
It was stated previously in the thread:
> Ummm, it is possible I err, but I recall reading the report from USFS
> avalanche center Salt Lake for that day and the next, and it reported high
> risk of human triggered and sympathetic release slides.
The Utah Avalanche Forecast Center had not yet begun issueing bulletins. Or
if they had issued one it had not been released to the internet. The first
bulletin was issued the day after the incident, as far as we can tell.
The victim was from NH and may not have been familiar with the local
bulletin, or how to obtain it locally. One of the things we attempt to do is
make all bulletins available from one place. This way if people travel they
don't need to hunt down the bulletin, they know where to find it. The UAFC is
one of 2-3 centers which neither support nor participate in this effort.
However, in this particular case, the group may not have sought it anywhere.
In the wake of the four teens who died outside Canmore last fall the
Canadians are making a large-scale effort to introduce some basic awareness
of avalanches through the public school system. On a province-wide if not
nation-wide scale.
Whose role is it to teach young people these basics, and how should it be
done?
--
***********************************************************
Cyberspace Snow and Avalanche Center (CSAC)
131 NW 4th St Suite 397, Corvallis OR 97330
#343 - 3495 Cambie St, Vancouver BC V5Z 4R3
(541)754-8353 (541)461-4279 Fax
http://www.csac.org sn...@csac.org
Jim Frankenfield; Director
***********************************************************
SkiBumOne
Avalanche Center (CSAC) wrote in message
<72o8dp$han$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
>Whose role is it to teach young people these basics, and how should it be
>done?
You cant teach those unwilling to learn. Backcountry skiing and avalanches
go together, unfortunately. Perhaps its best to concentrate on getting that
simple message out to the young 'uns. Then, as always, the impetus is upon
them to seek the skills necessary to survive. If they want to learn, they
can, if not,,,,well,,,,there goes my Darwin alarm again....
SkiBumOne
Tri-Ungulate wrote in message ...
><skib...@aol.com> wrote:
>> or "Telemarking as a Genetic Marker for Predisposition for Fetish
Attraction
>> to Adhesive-Backed Fabric Segments (Duct Tape)"??
>
>
>There's a peak in Kyrgyzstan I want to climb, just for the name. It's
>called "25 years of American Duct Tape".
>
>FA details in _Climbing_ (165)72.
>I'd show you my copy, but the pages are stuck together.
Now I am afraid, very afraid.
I glanced at a show on skiing the way-backcountry extreme in Kurdistan ( Is
that the americanized spelling of Kyrgyzstan??) on the OLN channel, looked
extreme enough....and nary a roll of tape, go figure.
.
Jacob Høgh Olesen
> Kurdistan ( Is that the americanized spelling of Kyrgyzstan??)
There is a mere 2000 miles between Kurdistan in the Eastern Turkey (the
country, not the bird) and the ex-Soviet republic of Kyrghyzstan bordering to
Afghanistan and China. By the way, if you ask Turkey, Kurdistan does not exist.
Regards, Jacob H. Olesern
Clayman
about avalanche dangers. Slides are slightly less common in New Hampshire
and Vermont (although a couple of patrolmen were buried at Pat's Peak in
1972). Most likely they put their trust in what they thought was an
experienced guide.
Easy access to backcountry areas always presents a problem. Lack of
preparedness is far more dangerous than the natural conditions. An
excellent example is deaths on mountains. The deadliest mountain in the US
is Mt. Washington, NH. More people have died there than on Denali or
Rainier, not because it is more dangerous, but because the access is easy.
Many people go up thinking it must be safe if it's that easy to get to.
People everywhere need to learn to prepare and consider the risks before
they get involved with ANY outdoor activities. I think in backcountry
situations, that means learning about the risks and the equipment, and
researching the professionals/guides you choose to make sure they are
reputable and experienced. (Also, making sure you know what to do if the
guide is the one who gets taken out.
Clayman
SkiBumOne wrote in message ...
SkiBumOne
Jacob Høgh Olesen wrote in message <36500085...@hoegh-olesen.dk>...
>SkiBumOne wrote:
>
>> Kurdistan ( Is that the americanized spelling of Kyrgyzstan??)
>
>There is a mere 2000 miles between Kurdistan in the Eastern Turkey (the
>country, not the bird) and the ex-Soviet republic of Kyrghyzstan bordering
to
>Afghanistan and China.
Oh, then it must by Kyrghzstan that I saw. Is it pronounced Kurdistan?
Sounded that way on the tele
>
Butt Dawg
>When they (responders) arrived shortly after the slide
>occurred, leader Kittell (da one w/da kewl shovel) had already left the
>scene "to go get help". It was up to them and the remaining
>northeasterners to begin the search.
Great! A leader has been identified! Now we have someone to blame and the
persecution and finger pointing can get on in earnest.
BD
The Chuting Gallery - A Guide to Steep Skiing in the Wasatch Mountains
http://www.bdel.com/ChutingGallery/home.html
Hugh Grierson
>When they (responders) arrived shortly after the slide
>occurred, leader Kittell (da one w/da kewl shovel) had already left the
>scene "to go get help". It was up to them and the remaining
>northeasterners to begin the search.
Oops.
It's worth reminding the casual reader at this point that the survival
rate of a buried avalanche victim isn't too bad for the first 10 or 15
minutes or so, but drops off extremely quickly after that. Don't go to
get help, when it arrives your buddy will be dead. Search and dig.
Vail - dig it
Scott Abraham
Butt Dawg wrote:
>
> Great! A leader has been identified! Now we have someone to blame and the
> persecution and finger pointing can get on in earnest.
It's your fault, BD.
Shame on you.
If you hadn't have told everyone how wonderful Xxxx is, those boarders would
not have gone there, and that poor kid would be alive today.
Bad Buttdawg.
Bad.
Two Buddha
Vail: Good Buddha. Good
Anthea
> Oh, then it must by Kyrghzstan that I saw. Is it pronounced Kurdistan?
> Sounded that way on the tele
It's near Tajikistan and Uzbekistan...
"...and in the dreams men dream along the way,
They find the golden road to Samarkand..."
which is also in that part of the world.
--
Ant! -=DUH#18=- (Y2)
Skitrips:
Canada: http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/1298/
Utah: http://www.fortunecity.com/olympia/cobb/188/