The Truth: George Irvine lies
rax
http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2962
it's in the public area... no signup required.
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Alan Street
€check this post about Bill Gavin and Lamar English calling out GI
€
€
€http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2962
€
€
€it's in the public area... no signup required.
€
"My advice is simple, "Shut up and go dive²".
(Bill Gavin)
Wise words.
JammerHog
Well, well, well...Kimber tells me I have to see who pops up in what used to
be my own backyard and I look and see if it is not the daddy of the Weenie
stop himself. You and your crew can all SMD. I made 10 posts or less all
on topic and about diving and you fuckers want to ban me? Goes to show you
what a waste of bandwidth your board is. Detail here what exactly I did to
violate your TOS, please...
1.
2.
3.
4.
You blithering piece of shit motherfucker...You cannot hang here--this is an
unmoderated forum....You are trying you damndest to find your niche in the
internet cyber world while being the proverbial pivot man in the circle
jerk between the locksteppers and the strokes(small "s") You ban Mozi for
just disagreeing, you ban my wife and myself for guilt by association--you
all need your asses kicked. and trust me brother--it is all coming down the
line...what goes around comes around.
Go back to your board and keep getting your asses kicked on real forums like
Quest and here. You cannot wash the sweat off of my jock let alone GI3's
and while we both may be assholes, we are fair asshole unlike you you piece
of shit motherfuckers. Piss on your board--piss on your moderators and piss
on your mothers you retoroactive abortion wannabes.
You tell them over there...
"I am coming and I am bringing Hell with me"
Your lord and master,
AirHog
Steve
Thx for the lesson.
I kinda thought King George might have a few things he'd want to hide.
Steve
"rax" <joepublic_nospam_.com> wrote in message
news:3f84c984$1...@corp.newsgroups.com...
Dan Bracuk
:You blithering piece of shit motherfucker...
Freind of yours?
Dan Bracuk
As Big Ben said to the Leaning Tower of Pisa, I've got the time if you've got the inclination.
The Best of Rec.Scuba
http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/
Rudy Benner
"Dan Bracuk" <bra...@pathcom.com> wrote in message
news:2pkbovoftqgmio5ea...@4ax.com...
Airhog
> all had ringside seats. I love it..
Err..not so fast....
From GI3:(switch on Jack Farmer mode)
"
Geez, I just read that novel Bill Gavin wrote trying to explain his CF's.
Obviously his buddy Bill Main went crying that Jarrod and I were not nice to
him. I know Bill Gavin a long time and did some 150 cave dives with him, and
while he always resented me and we did not really get along too well other
than underwater, I certainly never in my life expected to see this guy stray
so far from reality. His post is not only obviously a convolution of
ridiculous circular logic, but full of complete denial and lies. He has
clearly been so far removed from the actual diving that his memory of what
he did is completely gone.
I don't need to "set the record straight", and certainly do not need to
write a novel explaining my actions since I have nothing to explain and a
perfect record, but some of this stuff just has to be answered.
Bill chose to attack my instructions to my team as to how to handle
different situations. I have a set protocol, and Bill's arguments against it
fail to recognize how we really operate. In a nutshell, we dive our stages
to half plus and we dive multiple scooters and we place safeties. We do not
drag a bunch of partially full stages with us. We do not so we can discard
them in an emergency. Bill has this very confused, and Bill dove to thirds
on his backgas while using only one scooter. Bill did not like carrying
extra scooters and bottles. Jarrod and I have no problem with this, as
evidenced by our 5 scooter dives with "trains" of bottles that have been
executed in good time with no CFs to report, and certainly no dead buddies
to explain.
Bill says he and Lamar ( English, not Hires) and Sherwood did the dive
prior to Wood's death. I was on that dive with Lamar, Gavin and Sherwood - I
did the survey. Jarrod and I did the setup dive for the next dive which is
the one that killed Wood. Wood came to me and said "this is the last of
these dives that I am going to do". Wood had been drinking and using, he
told me, his roommate told me, and I told Gavin that we should not let Wood
dive. Gavin said," Sherwood has done almost as many of these dives as you
have, he deserves to go". I bailed out of the dive. Gavin is lying badly
about this - it was a four man dive originally. I told them to call me and
tell me "where they killed Sherwood". Lamar called me that night and said
"In the restriction". These guys are covering their asses.
After that dive, Gavin and Lamar did ONE more dive with me in Turner and
then two more dives in Wakulla ( Lamar sat out the first one and Sheck Exley
stepped in). On the Turner dive, we went 4400 feet, not 8000 feet. Again,
Gavin lying on number of dives and the distance. Jarrod, Casey and I have
since extended the Turner cave. The dive that Lamar and Gavin did with me in
Wakulla went 6500 feet. The longest deep dive Gavin did was the one where
Sherwood died. I know because I went back with Brent Scarabin and surveyed
the line Bill added. Basically, on a convoluted, ridiculous and massively
unsafe dive plan too ridiculous to recount, those three went about 9 grand
on one scooter each that had a full speed burn time of about 85 minutes (
more if turned back - the batteries are a lot better now). They did not have
enough scooter, enough gas, enough safeties, and they strung themselves out
like Bill always did, and they paid the ultimate price. Brent and I went in
with two big scooters each, plenty of gas, safeties, surveyed the entire
line and got out with full hundreds, and nobody even got cold, much less
killed. Gavin's efforts to badmouth my dive planning and methods are a laugh
considering his track record. But , resentment does funny things to people.
Sherwood surveyed about 800 feet of line , and it was all wrong. Those guys
put in a lot more, and my bet is that Sherwood was back there surveying all
by himself, just like these two used to do to me, and he got freaked and
spent the rest of the time trying to catch them and turn the dive. Diving
with those two was solo diving, and I held no illusions that either one of
them would help me for one second if things went wrong. That is a far cry
from my relationship with Jarrod in the water, or any DIR diver for that
matter.
Gavin feels he is being criticized for these people's deaths. He
complains about me saying Bill Main left his buddy McFadden, and then goes
on to explain that he ( Bill Gavin) was solo diving while Bill Main and Bill
McFadden were deep air diving, and goes on to criticize DIR and talk about
"hogarthian". Hello, Mom? If you have not read this, go see it to believe
it.
Gavin got warned on Sherwood. Gavin actually wised up after McFadden ( no
more air dives). By the way, I heard about the accident while taking my
cavern class - Bill and Bill are big on the time thing, and the truth is
they both should be embarrassed criticizing myself and Jarrod who took it
beyond their wildest dream in a fraction of the time. Bill thinks I am
blaming him for Parker's death. What I did was to discontinue the practices
that contributed to these situations. I do not let people dive teknas while
Bill dives a Gavin and the tekna fails. I do not let practicing alcoholics
and drug addicts do exploration dives, especially when they come to me and
tell me they have a problem. I do not do kamikaze stretch dives, although I
did with Gavin and learned the easy way not to do it thereafter.
Gavin criticizes me for not taking action on Parker. My account of the
story is called "My 77th Cave Dive". The two guys with me, Bill Main and
Lamar English, had 15 years of cave dives. Bill Main and I both thought a
scooter had run away to the ceiling and we went to the ceiling to retrieve
it ( the arm "flailing" that Lamar talks about). When the water cleared, we
saw the scooters sitting where we left them. Gavin accurately points out
that "grins" dives should not be done, and I do not allow them, and Gavin
should have pointed out that letting somebody with 77 cave dives take on
that kind of responsibility was stupid. I don't do that either today.
As Jim Cobb points out, these guys are trying to loose the guilt. I don't
care about their guilt or their feelings or anything else. If you listen to
guys like this ( who are long out of it and who are in denial), you don't
get a chance to learn valuable lessons. I learned them, I practice from
them, and I have the track record to prove it.
Gavin could not deal with the "politics" of access, as he said, he asked
me to deal with it, he then asked me to take the whole thing over and he
would go back to being the Engineer, and I did just that. I got access to
everything, and I put procedures in place at that time which still exist
today.
Anyway, I learned a lot from Bill Gavin that was good, and learned a lot
by example of what not to do. I never learned anything from Main but total
bullshit. Lamar was a clever guy and I took what I could from him as well.
Then, Jarrod and I moved on. I have never resented anyone, and can't imagine
the feeling, but it must be powerful to get these guys off the bench after
ten years. I think is speaks a lot about the psychology of this sport."
Petty jealousy and casting stones Karl, well, sucks.
AirHog
Airhog
"Karl Denninger" <ka...@FS.Denninger.Net> wrote in message
news:bm4ort$vq9$0...@pita.alt.net...
> I fucking love it.
>
> Irvine exposed. The emporer has no clothes. In fact, he's nothing but a
> fraud from start to finish.
"I don't do bulletin boards. If you know where to put the post, go ahead and
place it. Besides, the Weenie Stop banned me already.
When I see a list full of resentful has beens and quitters who screwed up
and left the game in disgrace years ago all assembled in one spot, I sure do
not expect to find anything of value there. These guys are all where they
think they are supported and safe with their delusions.
Additionally, Gavin is making me look bad for having dove with him when he
jumps up and basically shoots himself in the head repeatedly defending
stupidity and still not getting it. I mean really, you don't try to weasel
out of a dead buddy situation by saying it is not your fault because you
were solo diving deep on air anyway, and that the idiot Bill Main did not
really leave his buddy, he thought his buddy was with him.
Gavin basically has made the distinction between "hogarthian" and DIR, and
so have JJ and I.
One more really funny thing that I did not mention. Bill Main is all pissy
because I told WKPP divers to ignore him. I got that same advice from Bill
Gavin 13 years ago! Besides that, Bill told me to be real careful diving
with Main because "he will leave you".
I could go on and on about these guys, but again, it makes me look like a
moron for diving with Bill for so long. JJ and I evolved all of this stuff
rapidly into a winning combination, and our success with exploration
relative to the others proves it."
Airhog
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
AirHog
--
"Behold the pale horse and the man who sat on him was death and hell
followed with him."
Airhog
"Rudy Benner" <ben...@BOGUS.personainternet.com> wrote in message
news:vobm1fl...@corp.supernews.com...
> If everyone ignores him, maybe he will go away again.
I am just karma-- those that deserve me get me--it is up to them to decide
if it is good bad.
or said as the Bard did "there is nothing either good
or bad, but thinking makes it so."
AirHog
--
"I'm coming and hell's coming with me."
Rudy Benner
"Airhog" <mi...@youwishyouknew.net> wrote in message
news:vobula2...@news.supernews.com...
Popeye
>From: "rax" joepublic_nospam_.com
>Date: 10/8/2003 7:34 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <3f84c984$1...@corp.newsgroups.com>
>check this post about Bill Gavin and Lamar English calling out GI
>http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2962
>it's in the public area... no signup required.
Wellwellwell...
Look, if it isn't the master moderator of ban happy Deco Stop, home of the
DIR-reach-a-round. You got real gall to show up here whining for pity after all
those you've silenced out of fear and loathing on your own, you fucking
scumbag. You and your little butt surfing, pillow biting asshole buddies at
Deco Stop are little internet Nazis that kick anyone you can't out-reason or
out-bully, a buncha DIR/Rule #6 wannabees that just got burned by the head of
state. The karma involved here could be cut with a knife. You've been measured
by your false god, and found sadly wanting. Then, you come sniffling into
Rec.scuba, a forum of truth that you can neither survive in or moderate, that
you continually criticize, with your MONUMENTALLY HUMILIATING tale of woe, to
validate yourself. But guess what, GI3 thinks that THE DECO STOP is a bunch of
open mouthed drooling nickel rocket strokes with room temperature IQs, no
different than Rec.scuba. The only thing I miss about posting there is
continually making your owner/moderators look like the banjo plucking front
porch dwellers that they are.
Whhhhoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You sure were smart to post anonymously, you cowardly, sphinter licking
lemming. My compliments to whichever random sailor or Marine fathered you for
the cost of a whiskey sour.
And what's your Nazi Dive Slut gonna do now that she can't bully people on
TDS? So much for her elite little message board, now involved in an inter-forum
shit slinging contest that verifies your bland plebian worth. Maybe if she
grabs her ankles and goes about the business of the King (yet again), he'll
-let- her post on -her own- board. God, this is great, like the Animal House
crowd wheeling the Deathmobile through the town parade at flank speed. There is
a God, there is justice, and you've been called to account by that which you
worship for the slithering vermin that you are. And boy-howdy, did it sting.
And other than this gloriously bemeaning debasement, your only other course
of action was the one you know best... to -BAN- the Aquafuhrer, AS IF he would
soil himself by posting in your little circle jerk to begin with. Tell your
little lap dog Soggy I said hi (if you get your finger out of his ass).
Yore Pal Popeye. :-)
Someone make sure this gets PM'd to Raxfuckwitian, Soggy and Oring at The
Stroke Stop.
Oh, and hey, don't forget to write your wife's name and the location of your
car keys on your gear, to speed the recovery, you spineless bastard.
Popeye, CID
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings.
They did it by killing all those who opposed them.
Airhog
news:3f84c984$1...@corp.newsgroups.com...
In case you haven't guessed, you are not wanted here...this is where we
measure each other by statistics other than dick size, which in yer balless
case, you would still finish toward the bottom of the pecking order. Go
light a candle of concern for your little pissant board and tell your mom I
said hi...not sure if I will get down on the old broad this week or not.
So go moderate those lockstepping clones you hold in high regard in your
little fantsy world you have created where you rule by abuse of power and
control and tell my buddies over there to kss my ass and tell your wanna be
Scribe he can line up first and here is raising a glass to him joining his
dear stroke friend Matt Lawrence in davy jones locker--- you boys have a lot
to learn....
Spade.
Airhog
Michael Ross
<mi...@youwishyouknew.net> wrote:
>Go back to your board and keep getting your asses kicked on real forums like
>Quest and here. You cannot wash the sweat off of my jock let alone GI3's
>and while we both may be assholes, we are fair asshole unlike you you piece
>of shit motherfuckers. Piss on your board--piss on your moderators and piss
>on your mothers you retoroactive abortion wannabes.
Jeeze hog tell us what you *really* think about these guys...
I thought you had walked the plank from rec.scuba anyway?
Now granted I'm scarcely keeping up with stuff here, and granted I
haven't so much as wet my toes in 9 months (it's called 'parenthood'),
but are we missing someone? Has Angel disappeared off the planet?
Mike (and Iain, now 6 1/2 months, and getting teeth)
http://www.corestore.org
For sale: Al Qaeda rifle. Never fired. Dropped once.
Kimber
"Michael Ross" <aba...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> >of shit motherfuckers. Piss on your board--piss on your moderators and
piss
> >on your mothers you retoroactive abortion wannabes.
>
> Jeeze hog tell us what you *really* think about these guys...
Heh -- as if he has ever been one to mince his words. You may not like it,
but you always know where you stand with him!
Kimber
Airhog
Dammit Duck--I tried....real hard...then I get told you have to see who
showed up here and I got back sucked in the cycle....
Hope all is well with you and yours,
AirHog
Brian Nadwidny
> Has Angel disappeared off the planet?
She was never on the planet.
Brian
Edmonton, Alberta
www.mossmanscubaventures.com
Alan Street
>
>
>Oh, how about his recent claimed dictate on Quest that any WKPP diver who
>posts to TDS will be removed from the active roster?
>
I've heard of this claim in a couple of places, but as willing as many seem to
be to cross-post stuff from Quest, I haven't actually seen this in writing.
Does anybody have a copy of the actual post, or is this just a rumor that's
turning into an urban legend?
Alan
Jack Farmer
but popeye please don't beat around the bush so much. What do you REALLY
think of him and the weenie stop??
Safe Diving.
L8R
Jack Farmer
Steve
Tell them to drink the "Kool-Aid".
S
"Karl Denninger" <ka...@FS.Denninger.Net> wrote in message
news:bm6j93$5n7$1...@pita.alt.net...
>
> In article <vobuav9...@news.supernews.com>,
> Airhog <mi...@youwishyouknew.net> wrote:
> >
> >"Karl Denninger" <ka...@FS.Denninger.Net> wrote in message
> >news:bm4ort$vq9$0...@pita.alt.net...
> >> I fucking love it.
> >>
> >> Irvine exposed. The emporer has no clothes. In fact, he's nothing but
a
> >> fraud from start to finish.
> >
> >
> >"I don't do bulletin boards. If you know where to put the post, go ahead
and
> >place it. Besides, the Weenie Stop banned me already.
>
> No they didn't. That's a (proveable) lie. The founders of TDS have
> already posted that this is complete horseshit.
>
> However, GIs first statement is true - he won't come out and play where he
> isn't the only one with long knives. Heh, that's cool. Its obvious that
he
> simply can't deal with an honest, open debate in a public forum; instead,
> he hides on Quest, where he can play God.
>
> >Gavin basically has made the distinction between "hogarthian" and DIR,
and
> >so have JJ and I.
> >
> >One more really funny thing that I did not mention. Bill Main is all
pissy
> >because I told WKPP divers to ignore him. I got that same advice from
Bill
> >Gavin 13 years ago! Besides that, Bill told me to be real careful diving
> >with Main because "he will leave you".
> >
> >I could go on and on about these guys, but again, it makes me look like a
> >moron for diving with Bill for so long. JJ and I evolved all of this
stuff
> >rapidly into a winning combination, and our success with exploration
> >relative to the others proves it."
>
> Oh yeah, right.
>
> GI3 is just another Internet blowhard. Yeah, he ran a bunch of people
off.
>
> Oh, how about his recent claimed dictate on Quest that any WKPP diver who
> posts to TDS will be removed from the active roster?
>
> By what right does King George tell people what they can and can't do on
> their own time, and when and where they can speak?
>
> --
> --
> Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights
Activist
> http://www.denninger.net Tired of spam at your company? LOOK HERE!
> http://childrens-justice.org Working for family and children's rights
> http://diversunion.org LOG IN AND GET YOUR TANK STICKERS TODAY!
Rudy Benner
"Jack Farmer" <Crusa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:vodl7te...@corp.supernews.com...
> He's got YOUR number though. haha
>
PLONK
Airhog
seem to
> be to cross-post stuff from Quest, I haven't actually seen this in
writing.
> Does anybody have a copy of the actual post, or is this just a rumor
that's
> turning into an urban legend?
Yes and when I get back home I will post it.,
Kimber
"Alan Street" <alan@nonono_irsi.com> wrote in message
news:vodko2...@news.supernews.com...
> >Oh, how about his recent claimed dictate on Quest that any WKPP diver who
> >posts to TDS will be removed from the active roster?
> >
>
>
> I've heard of this claim in a couple of places, but as willing as many
seem to
> be to cross-post stuff from Quest, I haven't actually seen this in
writing.
> Does anybody have a copy of the actual post, or is this just a rumor
that's
> turning into an urban legend?
The following is the post in it's entirety stating that WKPP divers cannot
post to TDS without being removed from the roster...
It is long due to quoting -- but I wanted to post it exactly as it came
through.
Kimber
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Irvine" <gir...@bellsouth.net>
To: "Wkpp@Yahoogroups. Com" <wk...@yahoogroups.com>; "Quest@Gue. Com"
<qu...@gue.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 1:49 PM
Subject: FW: R: Depth relation to deco?
> Any of you that I catch participating in this bulletin board will be
removed
> from the WKPP roster. Your ridiculous attempts to teach pigs to sing makes
> us all look like idiots, and we do not need any publicity of any kind
> anyplace. That goes for Jarrod's employees as well. If JJ needs people to
go
> on that deco stop list to fight off lies about his company or training
> agency, then he needs to use people who do not belong to the WKPP.
>
> You guys just can not be this stupid and put the WKPP name on it. There is
> zero upside to this, it only attracts negative or unwanted attention, it
> stirs up the agitators, reminds people of what we have that they do not,
and
> in no way helps anyone. Get over yourselves and save what you think you
know
> for somebody that needs to know it. Do not worry about idiots - you don't
> see them at our dives, so they don't need any of your "help", and neither
> does the WKPP.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Irvine [mailto:gir...@bellsouth.net]
> Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 1:43 PM
> To: Spectre; Quest@Gue. Com
> Subject: RE: R: Depth relation to deco?
>
>
> Jeff, our "members" somehow feel forced to participate on your site to
> dispel bullshit, which I think is a waste of time. Sites that serve as a
> safe haven for idiots are the only ones where our "members" find this to
be
> "necessary". When Jarrod Jablonski has to come onto your site to dispel
the
> vicious crap being said about him, his company and his training agency
> there, then there is a problem. You are obviously the problem, since you
can
> not see this and you preside over this thing.
>
> I disagree with Jarrod's attempts at dealing with idiots who do not
deserve
> any response, and I disagree with him having his people participate in
your
> site in order to keep his name and his company's name from being dragged
> through the mud by misinformed, resentful little idiots. My in person
> "persona" is the same as the net, only the difference is that in person,
> most people are smart enough not to try what they try on the net, and
> therefore they get treated accordingly, and think I am a nice guy. The
last
> moron who tried in person what you people repeatedly try on the net ended
up
> having to call the police. You people really amaze me - you talk about my
> disrespect for the idiots in diving after reading what they have to say
> about me??????? You sound like a good Hilary Clinton style liberal
Democrat.
>
> I have no interest in participating in sites with low common denominators,
> which is what you clearly have on that site. Notice that none of the
> bullshit from your site gets attempted where there are expected to be real
> sharks in the water.
>
> I have heard the repeated horror stories about your site from the people
> Jarrod asked to correct the slander and bullshit, and like I said I have
no
> intention of myself getting involved in a Tar Baby of babbling idiots who
> want to take a free , long distance swing at me and JJ. Besides, as you
just
> saw, one little daisy cutter from me gets the job done without me having
to
> listen to all the jackasses baying about it.
>
> You owe Jablonski a serious apology, and trust me that I will take it out
on
> your pals in the most nasty, disrespectful, vindictive manner at the worst
> possible moment if it is not publicly forthcoming, and I never forget a
> scumbag. I suggest you get busy cleaning up your little mess, and save
your
> patronizing bullshit for the weenies and low lifes you are serving on that
> asinine bulletin board or whatever it is.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Spectre [mailto:spe...@thedecostop.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 1:11 PM
> To: gir...@bellsouth.net
> Subject: Re: R: Depth relation to deco?
>
>
> Mr Irvine,
> Let me start with just addressing the line from the e-mail you received.
> Perhaps there was more in that e-mail that you quoted that gave you the
> impression that you got from it, but at face value, the quote says nothing
> of the sort, in my humble opinion that is. All I see in that snippet is
> that someone learned of the WKPP via TDS, and in doing what I wish more
> people on the internet would do, researched more into what the WKPP does.
I
> infer nothing from that snippet that implies there is fighting and lying
> about the WKPP on TDS. In fact, I believe it to be the opposite. The
last
> two threads I can recall in which the WKPP was discussed, had nothing but
> dispelling false rumors about the team. One thread was in regards to the
> lecture you did in Seattle [I believe that's where you were], and was
> attended by quite a few of our members, as well as one of the site owners.
> Another thread I can recall that discussed the WKPP had a lot of input by
> WKPP members describing what the WKPP does, and what it takes to become
part
> of the team.
>
> I would be inclined to state that there may actually be active members
on
> The Deco Stop that you may actually respect, but I get the strange
> impression that there isn't anyone in the diving community that you
actually
> do respect. I would go on to start naming names, in hopes that you may
> choose to discuss the site with them, and get a better impression of what
> the site actually is, but I would rather leave them out of it, for fear
that
> you would turn on those who have working relationships with you... because
> of their association with TDS.
>
> In regards to the whole Bill Main thing, which I believe is where your
> opinion of TDS stems from, you are formulating your opinion on the heresay
> that is passed to you by the lemmings, that make up for their lack of
> knowledge, expertise, and common sense by scouring the internet in search
of
> the word of the stroke to pass back to you as an offering, to gain favor
> which they can't do with their skill or knowledge. The fact of the matter
> is that you are condeming our site for one post in one thread by one
> individual out of over 38000 posts in over 2500 threads by over 1600
> members. That would be akin to people forumlating opinions about quest,
and
> DIR in general based on one of SeaJay Bayne's posts on quest. Which would
> be a truely unfortunate occurance. I completely agree that people with
> brains can see who the players, and who the lemmings and idiots, truely
are.
> It's a shame that you can only see the idiots and the lemmings that
frequent
> the Internet, and can't see beyond the noise and see that there are good
> things being done for the community on both our sites.
>
> I really have no intention of trying to change your opinion of the site.
> However I, like you, tend to call a spade a spade, and when someone starts
> spouting off opinions formed on heresay and conjecture and not actual
> experience, I want to at least make an effort, no matter how futile, to
set
> the record straight. I only hope that your internet personality is just
> that, an online personality, and you really aren't like this in real life.
> It would be a shame that someone with your experience and knowledge be
> cursed with such a jaded view on the world, and sees only assaults and
> attacks in everything you read. That would be most unfortunate and I
truely
> feel bad for you if that is the case.
>
> You are welcome to hold whatever option you would like about The Deco
> Stop, I can't change that. You are welcome to hold whatever opinion you
> want about me personally, because I'm comfortable enough with myself and
> have earned the respect of the divers who's achievements I aspire to.
>
> So what is my point with all of this? *shrug* I have no real idea.
> Perhaps something to do on a rainy day before getting my gear set for my
> dives tomorrow? Perhaps it can result in a relationship where you can
seek
> validation from me for the twisted rumors you hear from the lemmings in
> regards to The Deco Stop, but somehow I seriously doubt that would happen.
> But whatever... I'm not about to loose sleep over opinions based on the
> reports of the idiots that feel the need to 'contribute' to the community
by
> stirring up controversy where there is none. The fact of the matter is we
> are both, I believe, striving for the same goal, which is to do what we
can
> to help educate the diving community to be safer divers and to learn from
> those that have been there and done that.
>
> -Jeff Schreiber
> "Don't hold strong opinions about things you don't understand"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Irvine" <gir...@bellsouth.net>
> To: "Spectre" <spe...@thedecostop.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 8:15 AM
> Subject: RE: R: Depth relation to deco?
>
>
> > Jeff, all your little clowns over on deco stop are doing is making asses
> of
> > themselves and drawing attention to me and WKPP. When anyone with a
brain
> > looks more closely, they see who the idiots are, and who the players
> really
> > are. I cut a line from an email I received last night and pasted it
below
> so
> > you can see what people outside of the circle of stupidity really think.
> You
> > and your pals can keep on fighting us and lying about us and trying
> > everything you can to discredit us, and all you are doing is sitting on
> the
> > sidelines while we play the game, and that is how it will always be, and
> > that is the root of the problem. The ignorance and stupidity that
pervades
> > your list is beyond the pale. You , obviously, harbor the same kind of
> > resentment that the strokes like Bill Main do. I really hope that piece
of
> > shit posts something negative about JJ again, so I can finish him off
for
> > good. What I know about him would leave him with 0 people who would
listen
> > to his crap.
> >
> > Here is what real people think:
> >
> > I was surfing the net and found a reference many times to WKPP through
out
> > the "Deco Stop" message board and after closely reading over many items
on
> > your WKPP web site I found myself compelled to let you know that there
are
> > some of us out here that appreciate your contribution to the diving
> > community....
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Spectre [mailto:spe...@thedecostop.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:51 AM
> > To: gir...@bellsouth.net
> > Subject: Re: R: Depth relation to deco?
> >
> >
> > From: "George Irvine" <gir...@bellsouth.net>
> > > I will repeat for you Marines - this is a DIR list. For bullshit and
> crap,
> > > join "The Deco Stop", where you can get advice straight from the
trailer
> > of
> > > famous strokes,
> >
> >
> > Mr. Irvine,
> > While I appreciate the name recognition, I'm not sure why you feel the
> > need to badmouth The Deco Stop. To my knowledge, you have never set up
an
> > account on the site, and thus really don't know what the site is about.
> > Your opinion of the site could only be the result of second hand
> knowledge.
> > I would have figured you, of all people, would form opinions on your own
> > experiences, and not the one sided crossposting of the many lemmings
that
> > try to kiss up for their own self gratification.
> >
> > If you have a legitimate complaint about the site, I am all ears to
hear
> > it. If, however, you are formulating your opinion based on what a few
> > lemmings have filtered over to you, I kindly ask that you refrain from
> > commenting on something you have no first hand experience in.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > -Jeff Schreiber
> > "Don't hold strong opinions about things you don't understand"
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: quest-un...@gue.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: quest...@gue.com
>
>
>
Airhog
seem to
> be to cross-post stuff from Quest, I haven't actually seen this in
writing.
> Does anybody have a copy of the actual post, or is this just a rumor
that's
> turning into an urban legend?
He should start with the in house naZi dive slut.
And finish with that world famous ass kisser Paul B.
Then he should stop so suddenly that Ken P knows what he had for
breakfast...as far as the deco stop, Soggy, Rax, Wreckwriter, spectre, et al
could not find their collective dicks locked in a closet togehter with a
flashlight.
If the Ayatollah of Apeks had any sense he would have someone go browse the
members list and see the infilitration of WKPP members nad rule sixer
pontificating advice over there whil claiming to be DIR and on the "roster".
Why not we all get over here in an unmoderated forum and throw ALL of the
bullshit on the table with out someone worring about a goddam yeast
infection and screaming their pussies hurt. The emails I received over the
last 24 hours are down right laughable with so much backtracking by two of
their "mods" pointing fingers and denying, you would have thought they all
got caught red handed on the grasssy knoll.
These people like GI said --sitting on a piling talking about all the fish
they used to catch...bottom line is how many people have bit the dust since
GI took over?
Where is Sheck Exley and when was the last cave dive gavin did? and when
was last time Main did a goddamn thing noteworthy besides scootering SOLO in
to Devils at Ginnie 3000 ft and back? To dispute what the fuck JJ and Gi3
have done is ludicrious--everything evolves and the aret of cave diving has
evolved faster than these old goats penii have shriveled up in thier sac.
GI is holding the end of the line while these old bastards are holding
nothing buy useless old whitered dicks in their hands and bitching about why
the do not work anymore. The rule sixers and lockstep wannabes over there
are thinking the have uncovered some great dive mystery by providing a
platform they can dictate, modorate and poke out their chests and say "hey
look at us" much like the good old boys down in south georgia before the
hand their beer cans to their friends and hit the NOS button on their jacked
up station wagons.
I stated for them and I'll say it again--they cannot hold my jock let alone
that asshole GI3's. You can bitch and whine all you want--bottom line there
are a very few people right now today that mean anything at all to
furthering the advancing of cave diving and ll of those motherfuckers need
to realiZe it sure the fuck because of anything they did.or are doing.
So their you bunch of collective jackasses--put up or shut up--step out in
the middle of the street and draw or sit over there shuffling your knuckles
and sending PM's about what you want to to do to me or are going to me when
we meet. You do not have the sac to come here let alone discuss this matter
in person.
Fuck your mothers.
Again.
Alan Street
>
>
>"Alan Street" <alan@nonono_irsi.com> wrote in message
>news:vodko2...@news.supernews.com...
>
>> >Oh, how about his recent claimed dictate on Quest that any WKPP diver who
>> >posts to TDS will be removed from the active roster?
>> >
>>
>>
>> I've heard of this claim in a couple of places, but as willing as many
>seem to
>> be to cross-post stuff from Quest, I haven't actually seen this in
>writing.
>> Does anybody have a copy of the actual post, or is this just a rumor
>that's
>> turning into an urban legend?
>
>The following is the post in it's entirety stating that WKPP divers cannot
>post to TDS without being removed from the roster...
>
>It is long due to quoting -- but I wanted to post it exactly as it came
>through.
>
>Kimber
>
>
Thanks Kimber - interesting read.
Lee Bell
that in person,
> > most people are smart enough not to try what they try on the net, and
> > therefore they get treated accordingly, and think I am a nice guy. The
> > last moron who tried in person what you people repeatedly try on the net
ended
> > up having to call the police.
So much for the rumors that George is really a nice guy. By the way, the
guy he's talking about is me. I didn't have to call the police, but I was
prepared to. George realized what the results would have been, got back in
his car and left the premisis. Did I mention there was a witness?
Lee
Scott
<el-snipo>
> Fuck your mothers.
>
> Again.
>
> AirHog
Several things about this entire situation and exchange are troubling;
1) Bill Main and Bill Gavin are due a lot of credit and respect. Period.
Niether GI nor JJ would be where they are without these guys.
Gavin's name is good enought to use marketing scooters, only to be slammed
by the guy who makes money using his name, and that is
bullshit. I think he is being fucked in the heart by a kid he took under his
wing, and that is shameful. Changes my outlook on a lot of things.
2) Several of the points the "Bills" brought up were not even close to
answered, only avoided, and obviously avoided at that.
3) No one said GI and JJ havent done a lot in Wakulla, they certainly have.
But, the diving world doesnt start and stop in Wakulla.
Diving in Wakulla starts and stops at Wakulla. Without the foundation
supplied by the Bills, GUE/WKPP/Halcyon/DIR wouldnt
exist. And after seeing the treatment these guys were handed, I have to ask
what are the real motives?
4) I have had my own issues and situations with people involved directly and
indirectly with this bunch, and none of them were
what I would call trivial. Some amounted to outright subterfuge, and some
amounted to nothing more than internet weenie-wagging,
and a good bit of it changed the way I dive and think about diving. A good
bit of it has also made me stand back and realize that
things are not as some would have us believe, and a good bit of it
identified the typical self defined "leaders" as nothing more than
parasites looking to make a buck on the backs and names of the real actors.
5) Lets not forget that neither of the Bills have ever been involved in the
internet trash wars, until now, and this begs the obvious
question;
Why?
Why do they now feel compelled to speak out?
Kane sure has been quiet...
Scott
"A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely
overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the
common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be
subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready
to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal
invader." --Samuel Adams
Scott
news:TAEhb.20695$mQ2....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> So much for the rumors that George is really a nice guy. By the way, the
> guy he's talking about is me. I didn't have to call the police, but I was
> prepared to. George realized what the results would have been, got back
in
> his car and left the premisis. Did I mention there was a witness?
I still cant figure out why he has such a hard-on for you. If you are really
as insignificant as he proposes, then why all the
bullshit and threats?
Not to mention the fact that he might have gotten himself legally and
rightfully shot...
Scott
mike gray, CID
> He's got YOUR number though. haha
He doesn't have my number though, nor do I have his. So how about you
run over there and ask him how much he wants to ban WKRP/GUE/Halcyon
from rec.scuba
Bet we could raise the money in a trice.
Michael Ross
wrote:
snip...
>Oh, how about his recent claimed dictate on Quest that any WKPP diver who
>posts to TDS will be removed from the active roster?
>
>By what right does King George tell people what they can and can't do on
>their own time, and when and where they can speak?
I know about as much about the background and personalities here as a
pig knows about courts martial, but I'll stick my oar in.
Ordinarily I'd agree such a dictate would make 'King George' a jerk.
Worse than a jerk. Hell, it would be an insult to jerks.
However my (limited) understanding is that WKPP is way out on the
ragged edge, doing stuff that is so utterly removed from 'normal'
recreational diving, that they have a quite different - and
ultra-disciplined - organisation.
Joining WKPP, as far as I can figure, is not like joining your local
dive club, it's much more like joining the Marines. You obey the
lawful orders of your superior officers. If you don't like it, quit.
Desert. Go AWOL. Resign.
my 2c
Mike
Scott
> Joining WKPP, as far as I can figure, is not like joining your local
> dive club, it's much more like joining the Marines. You obey the
> lawful orders of your superior officers. If you don't like it, quit.
> Desert. Go AWOL. Resign.
No, joining the Marines has a bit of history, honor and respect for those
who went before you to it.
Also, in the Marines, you are given the same opportunity as the other 60
recruits to fail or to make it.
It has nothing to do with who you are, where you came from, who's daughter
you banged, what dope
or drink you did. It has to do with what you are, and how deep your mud
runs.
There is little pay, no notoriety (unless you are really outstanding among
really outstanding Americans),
and you get a flag on your box before they shovel the dirt on. Also, you
wont hear young Marines dissing
or insulting old Marines.
Ragged edge, absolutely.
And, almost anything that works in that environment and TAO works fine on a
reef, and quite well in many
circumstances.
What doesn't fly is the irreverence, the disrespect and the jock attitude;
What that does is torpedo the whole fucking mess.
Scott
Airhog
> Niether GI nor JJ would be where they are without these guys.
> Gavin's name is good enought to use marketing scooters, only to be slammed
> by the guy who makes money using his name, and that is
> bullshit. I think he is being fucked in the heart by a kid he took under
his
> wing, and that is shameful. Changes my outlook on a lot of things.
I can agree with that...except GI did not slam until Gavin spoke up and I
think I remember --(read: second hand) that Gavin still gets a cut out of
everyone sold not to mention a nice "sum" at the start of the deal. Ofc
ourse I may be wrong..it is late in the year and I am due to be.... :-)
> 2) Several of the points the "Bills" brought up were not even close to
> answered, only avoided, and obviously avoided at that.
Yep. but hey--I am tired of the deco stop and basically my hatred is aimed
at that little pissant of board sitting over there poking their chests out
when all they are doing is stirring hte pot. I have no use for GI either so
basically my point was fuck them all.
> 3) No one said GI and JJ havent done a lot in Wakulla, they certainly
have.
> But, the diving world doesnt start and stop in Wakulla.
I concur--except for the advancement of cave diving in the US.
> Diving in Wakulla starts and stops at Wakulla. Without the foundation
> supplied by the Bills, GUE/WKPP/Halcyon/DIR wouldnt
> exist. And after seeing the treatment these guys were handed, I have to
ask
> what are the real motives?
Well, from first hand knowledge-Gavin quit caving and all Main does a once a
week 3k enter/exit solo at Ginnie.
> 4) I have had my own issues and situations with people involved directly
and
> indirectly with this bunch, and none of them were
> what I would call trivial. Some amounted to outright subterfuge, and some
> amounted to nothing more than internet weenie-wagging,
> and a good bit of it changed the way I dive and think about diving. A good
> bit of it has also made me stand back and realize that
> things are not as some would have us believe, and a good bit of it
> identified the typical self defined "leaders" as nothing more than
> parasites looking to make a buck on the backs and names of the real
actors.
I am aware of some of your issues and agree with you situation as you have
described it. See below for further comments.
> 5) Lets not forget that neither of the Bills have ever been involved in
the
> internet trash wars, until now, and this begs the obvious
> question;
>
> Why?
Cause they are too old to type? j/k I for the life of me cannot fathom
why--you, I and everyone who has been in tune knows what has been spewing
forth from the trust fund baby's mouth for quite a while. I think that if
it was all bullshit than these old birds would have spoke up sooner. We all
know the assholes speak loudest...don't we? :-)
>
> Why do they now feel compelled to speak out?
My guess is because someone started spoon feeding them and they, like many
of us have their egos and want one more "stroke".
> Kane sure has been quiet...
Fucking 'Aye---dead silent. I like Mike but right about now I would figure
he is staying where it is safe --scubaboard adn the deco stop...oops...I
hope GI doesn't find out...may fire his ass.
Hog
David Scarlett
news:bm4ort$vq9$0...@pita.alt.net :
> Basically all of his claims have been exposed as bullshit, and now
> it is rumored that he has banned any WKPP people from posting to
> TDS (and probably elsewhere) or he will ban them from the project.
Yeah? So JJ's now banned from the WKPP? ;-)
--
David Scarlett
dscarlett@_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ optusnet.com.au
Scott
"David Scarlett" <lo...@my.signature> wrote in message
news:Xns94116E6DB...@210.49.20.254...
> ka...@FS.Denninger.Net (Karl Denninger) wrote in
> news:bm4ort$vq9$0...@pita.alt.net :
>
> > Basically all of his claims have been exposed as bullshit, and now
> > it is rumored that he has banned any WKPP people from posting to
> > TDS (and probably elsewhere) or he will ban them from the project.
>
> Yeah? So JJ's now banned from the WKPP? ;-)
Well, 'cept for one...
or two...
Lee Bell
> > So much for the rumors that George is really a nice guy. By the way,
the
> > guy he's talking about is me. I didn't have to call the police, but I
was
> > prepared to. George realized what the results would have been, got back
> in
> > his car and left the premisis. Did I mention there was a witness?
>
> I still cant figure out why he has such a hard-on for you. If you are
really
> as insignificant as he proposes, then why all the
> bullshit and threats?
>
> Not to mention the fact that he might have gotten himself legally and
> rightfully shot...
He did not go far enough to be legally shot, but for a while, it was not
certain that he would not. It ended about as well as it could, with him
getting in his car and leaving.
Lee
Lee Bell
> I can agree with that...except GI did not slam until Gavin spoke up . . .
Which, by his own statement is what he always does. He's a nice guy until
somebody speaks up, like defending themselves from lies, for example, or
criticizing him for saying he's glad another diver is dead. I don't know
the facts of the incidents described by George or responded to by Bill. On
the other hand, since George was not present for them, I doubt he knows much
about them either.
> I concur--except for the advancement of cave diving in the US.
Make that recent, real recent. There were plenty of cave diving pioneers
before WKPP.
Lee
Steve
"Scott" <sco...@localaccess.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:voeg0mq...@corp.supernews.com...
G I is not good for business and some of the high end GUE I have ran across
try to put a little distance in there.
It's the bat carrying cultist followers that hold him close.
S
ferret
<joepublic_nospam_.com>:
I'm disappointed. Like totally.
I parsed the subject line as "George Irvine lives".
Aw shucks...
--
ferret "He leads me beside quiet waters ICQ 163264
He restores my soul" - Ps 23:2
"Follow, lead or get off the shotline"
Make spammers pay... use CruelMail
Scott
> I can agree with that...except GI did not slam until Gavin spoke up and I
> think I remember --(read: second hand) that Gavin still gets a cut out of
> everyone sold not to mention a nice "sum" at the start of the deal. Ofc
> ourse I may be wrong..it is late in the year and I am due to be.... :-)
Gavin clearly stated that he gets not a penny. None of my business, just
doesnt seem right.
> I concur--except for the advancement of cave diving in the US.
If I was going to cave dive, which I am not, there are plenty of competent
divers and instructors out there who dive
almost daily with little or no fanfare. There is nothing on earth that would
make me want to do an 18 hour SCUBA dive.
There is a lot of other things going on in the background and under the
surface, and I think it is too bad, because this is not
going to help people get away from the mainstream SCUBA hose job, it is
going to turn more people off.
Scott
Scott
> He did not go far enough to be legally shot, but for a while, it was not
> certain that he would not. It ended about as well as it could, with him
> getting in his car and leaving.
I call that a win, hands down.
Scott
Scott
> >> Basically all of his claims have been exposed as bullshit, and now
> >> it is rumored that he has banned any WKPP people from posting to
> >> TDS (and probably elsewhere) or he will ban them from the project.
> >
> > Yeah? So JJ's now banned from the WKPP? ;-)
>
> Hope springs eternal...
>
> Note that JJ has not posted since the edict was issued.... despite
> promises to post more about Halcyon there and on SB..... So GI's holding
> JJ's - and Halcyon's - dick as well?
>
> So much for the claim that JJ, Halcyon and GUE have nothing "official"
> to do with GI...
Naw, they'll let the smoke clear, and be back at it as if nothing happened.
Scott
Scott McFadden
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Irvine"
> > You guys just can not be this stupid and put the WKPP name on it.
This "privilege" is temporarily reserved for the current Project Director.
--
SJM
GWB
Anybody beat his record yet?????????
mike gray, CID
> However my (limited) understanding is that WKPP is way out on the
> ragged edge, doing stuff that is so utterly removed from 'normal'
> recreational diving, that they have a quite different - and
> ultra-disciplined - organisation.
WKRP does some interesting stuff, and the logistics of the dives they do
are impressive.
As cave diving goes, it is hardly on the "ragged edge": they are
fortunate to have acquired exclusive rights to what may be the longest
run of wide, clear water in the world. They have penetrated it part way.
All the way might be ragged edge.
They deserve credit for what they've done. They get scorn for what they
pretend they've done.
mike gray, CID
>>>In other words, besides being a dick he's a pussy as well.<<
>
> Anybody beat his record yet?????????
What record? Who certified it? And is it a record that anyone can beat
without the express permission of the "record holder"?
Get a grip.
GWB
>>What record? Who certified it? And is it a record that anyone can beat
without the express permission of the "record holder"?
Get a grip.<<
I didn't think so.
Airhog
> without the express permission of the "record holder"?
>
> Get a grip.
You know Mike--the one he did with a battalion size support team and
$150,000 worth of equipment, scootering through a hole the size of the
Holland tunnel.
As far as anyone beating it--that would take two battalions of support and
$250,000 worth of equipment....
AirHog
Airhog
> are impressive.
There ya go...ya got your battalion size support team and $150,000 worth of
equipment, being directed by an asshole..sorta like Al Queda but maybe Al
Queda has slightly more money and a smarter director as he now stays out of
the limelight. The old better to have people think you are an ass then open
up your mouth and remove all doubt.....
Airhog
> divers and instructors out there who dive
> almost daily with little or no fanfare. There is nothing on earth that
would
> make me want to do an 18 hour SCUBA dive.
My half cave card ays NSS-CDS -- My instructor with help from a rec.scuban
did a great job. Considering a cave 1 class with the GUE cave director now
goes around $1500.00 they can shove their cave class right up their proud
asses. When I decide to get the other half--(Ie, when I have another
$400.00 plus expenses) I'll go back to where I got this one. Funny how the
card I have now is is the same agencey that JJ was training director for at
one point....
> There is a lot of other things going on in the background and under the
> surface, and I think it is too bad, because this is not
> going to help people get away from the mainstream SCUBA hose job, it is
> going to turn more people off.
Well it has me from one agencey anyway. I flipped, flopped and flied back
and forth over this entire thing since I started and while I agree
"fundementally" it may be the best way to dive they can SMD. I said once
here and I will say it again--I plopped down $29.00 for their nice list to
hear GI3 pontificate for a year now and the "usual" suspects over there run
their collective noses so far up his ass, not only can they tell you what he
had for breakfast, they probably served it to him in bed.
There is only GUE presence on their on fucking list when an instructor has a
class opening, they are pimping for articles for their elementary school
edition of Quest the rag--every single month they are always--a "couple" of
articles shy( Having worked in the printing industry for a number of years,
I can only guess this is put together by someones 12 year old kid-$1500.00
for a cave class and this is what they deliver for a rag...) and when JJ
come on to make an excus...er....explanation why somethiong is being
fixe...er....changed.
They should rename that list the trust fund baby worshiping, kiss my ass and
old my dick while I piss list. I'll save my $29.00 next year for a case of
beer or an entrance fee to dive Ginnie.....with the other "mutants".
Open note to Jarrod Jablonski-- get a grip and get a presence of your
instructors on your own list.
AirHog
mike gray, CID
Neither did I.
But not everyone agrees with us.
Dan Bracuk
:There is a lot of other things going on in the background and under the
:surface, and I think it is too bad, because this is not
:going to help people get away from the mainstream SCUBA hose job, it is
:going to turn more people off.
What mainstream scuba hose job?
Dan Bracuk
As Big Ben said to the Leaning Tower of Pisa, I've got the time if you've got the inclination.
The Best of Rec.Scuba
http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/
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Airhog
The one you do not know about becasue you are Canadian and only few of your
chosen ones were dispensed this information.
AirHog
--
"I'm coming and hell's coming with me."
Popeye
>From: "Lee Bell" lee...@ix.remove.netcom.com
>Date: 10/10/2003 9:50 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <p_Lhb.12713$Eo2....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>
5 bucks on Team 3.
Popeye, CID
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings.
They did it by killing all those who opposed them.
Popeye
>Date: 10/11/2003 12:06 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <20031011150636...@mb-m22.aol.com>
>
>>>In other words, besides being a dick he's a pussy as well.<<
>
>Anybody beat his record yet?????????
>
At what, being a World Class Asshole?
Popeye
>Date: 10/11/2003 1:04 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <%mZhb.172614$0v4.13...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Feel free to cite whatever record the Aquafuhrer set by his lonesome.
Airhog
I am trying as hard as I can.
AirHog
--
"there's the wolf pack and the sled dogs, and you have a God given right to
have your nose up under a tail for as long as you want."
GWB
>>At what, being a World Class Asshole?<<
No, the other one.
Lee Bell
> There has not been one post from a WKPP member since the alleged edict was
> issued. There WERE, up until that point, several active members on TDS.
>
> They may all just be doing other things, or....
I'm kind of enjoying the debate about who is lying and who is not. George
as accused several people I know, including me, of lying about pretty much
everything. It does not distress me any to see him get a bit of his own
medicine from his own crowd, or at least those that used to be part of his
crowd.
On the other hand, I find it a bit odd that a possible commant prohibiting
postings on the various recreational forums is the subject of such hot
debate. I think that avoiding DIR and WKPP issues in such places is
probably the best thing WKPP could do. I think it is something that they
should have done long ago. Jarrod may need to market his products here and
elsewhere, but George's alledged statement that WKPP does not need us seems
pretty accurate to me. I may not think much of the way he dictates things
to his group, but I can not fault what this particular dictate seems to be
trying to do.
Lee
Lee Bell
> > He did not go far enough to be legally shot, but for a while, it was not
> > certain that he would not. It ended about as well as it could, with him
> > getting in his car and leaving.
>
> I call that a win, hands down.
I wasn't competing.
Lee Bell
> > At what, being a World Class Asshole?
>
> I am trying as hard as I can.
Give it up. You're a rank amateur by comparison.
Scott
> I wasn't competing.
Of course not, but you were in control, and thats even worse.
=;-)
Scott
Airhog
> pretty accurate to me. I may not think much of the way he dictates things
> to his group, but I can not fault what this particular dictate seems to be
> trying to do.
I guess if you are going to drink the koolaid you can't bitch about the
flavor you get.
Michael Ross
wrote:
OK... based on the opinions so far, I should probably add 'Start
fragging' to my 'Desert. Go AWOL. Resign. etc' list... :-)
Mike
http://www.corestore.org
For sale: Al Qaeda rifle. Never fired. Dropped once.
Brian Nadwidny
> > > My in person "persona" is the same as the net, only the difference is
> that in person,
> > > most people are smart enough not to try what they try on the net, and
> > > therefore they get treated accordingly, and think I am a nice guy. The
> > > last moron who tried in person what you people repeatedly try on the net
> ended
> > > up having to call the police.
>
> So much for the rumors that George is really a nice guy. By the way, the
> guy he's talking about is me. I didn't have to call the police, but I was
> prepared to. George realized what the results would have been, got back in
> his car and left the premisis. Did I mention there was a witness?
I figgered that was you he was talking about. Would've loved to have
been a fly on the wall for that.
Brian
Edmonton, Alberta
www.mossmanscubaventures.com
Popeye
>On the other hand, I find it a bit odd that a possible commant prohibiting
>postings on the various recreational forums is the subject of such hot
>debate. I think that avoiding DIR and WKPP issues in such places is
>probably the best thing WKPP could do. I think it is something that they
>should have done long ago. Jarrod may need to market his products here and
>elsewhere, but George's alledged statement that WKPP does not need us seems
>pretty accurate to me. I may not think much of the way he dictates things
>to his group, but I can not fault what this particular dictate seems to be
>trying to do.
>
>Lee
I think it's blatant narcissism. George doesn't like to see anybody's name
associated with "WKPP" but -his-.
That, and, you can't see the cockroaches until you turn the kitchen light on.
I know for a fact the vaunted safety record of the WKPP is a little more dinged
up than they let on.
Popeye
>Date: 10/11/2003 7:17 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <20031011221718...@mb-m17.aol.com>
>
>Popeye, CID asks:
>>>At what, being a World Class Asshole?<<
>
>No, the other one.
Wasn't he recently beaten by -THE FRENCH-?
How humiliating.
Lee Bell
> > I wasn't competing.
>
> Of course not, but you were in control, and thats even worse.
>
> =;-)
I don't think I've ever heard anybody mention a meeting with George and
being in control in the same sentence. I was in control of myself, as I
always strive to be. Best I could do.
This was not a pleasant encounter for either George or me. Nobody won,
everybody lost. He seems to be getting a bit of milage from it and
introduced a bit of a lie into his story in the process. I just cleared
things up, something that happens to be on topic this time. I've gotten a
bit of milage from it as well, milage that I think shows me in a better
light than somebody who would actually brag about being so agressive in
public that anybody "had to call the police" on him. Unusual ethics to say
the least.
Lee
Lee Bell
> I figgered that was you he was talking about. Would've loved to have
> been a fly on the wall for that.
Wasn't much. I saw him coming and held out my hand to him. He got in my
face, screaming, cursing and telling me how he was going to sue my ass off.
I told him to get out of my face. He kept going, I told him to get out of
my face. After several more rounds, I told him to get out of my face or I
was calling the police to have him arrested, his choice. He kept on, I
dialed 911 and was about to push the call button when he closed his mouth in
mid sentence, got in his car and drove away.
Lee Bell
> I think it's blatant narcissism. George doesn't like to see anybody's
name
> associated with "WKPP" but -his-.
OK, I can go along with that. I also don't have a problem with it. He's
the head of the group. As long as he has control, he can handle things any
way he likes. As long as he stays out of my playground, I'm happy to have
him do whatever he wants in his own. I think you know what the odds of my
actually paying to join Quest are. I think I know the odds of my being
invited to a WKPP dive. If he could actually do what he keeps saying he
will, we would win effortlessly. There would be few, if any new recruits
and, as his former associates, people like Lamar English, Bill Gavin and
Thomas Tukker (sp), separate themselves from George and people like Parker
Turner die on dives with him, his following will dwindle until George has no
kingdom outside of his own mind.
> That, and, you can't see the cockroaches until you turn the kitchen light
on.
> I know for a fact the vaunted safety record of the WKPP is a little more
dinged
> up than they let on.
That's no secret.
Lee
H. Huntzinger
>
> WKRP does some interesting stuff, and the logistics of the dives they do
> are impressive.
Impressive in their scale, or in their innovation? Unfortunately, to
run longer dives by simply doing more of the same is at best
evolutionary. Its hardly revolutionary.
> They deserve credit for what they've done. They get scorn for what they
> pretend they've done.
The worst offenders are always the most vocally outspoken ones.
And it doesn't matter if we're talking about sports, military, politics,
acedemia, religion, or scuba diving.
-hh
mike gray
>>He did not go far enough to be legally shot, but for a while, it was not
>>certain that he would not. It ended about as well as it could, with him
>>getting in his car and leaving.
>>
>>Lee
>
>
> 5 bucks on Team 3.
I'll go 20 bucks on Team 3.
And $200 for a front row seat.
mike gray
The largest mule train in cave diving history?
Grumman-581
> The largest mule train in cave diving history?
Hmmm... Do you know something about their sexual potency that the rest of us
don't know (or want to know)? <grin>
Scott
> Wasn't much. I saw him coming and held out my hand to him. He got in my
> face, screaming, cursing and telling me how he was going to sue my ass
off.
> I told him to get out of my face. He kept going, I told him to get out of
> my face. After several more rounds, I told him to get out of my face or I
> was calling the police to have him arrested, his choice. He kept on, I
> dialed 911 and was about to push the call button when he closed his mouth
in
> mid sentence, got in his car and drove away.
And I bet you never got sued, did you?
Are you ready for the next example of what a complete bunch of spineless
shitbags these people are?
The chickenshit, ball-less punks served papers on Patrick at DEMA for patent
infringement. The lying-est, thieving-est, copying-est
punks on the block, screaming like a bitch 'cause someone is building better
products, so they want to bury him in legal bills.
Nothing but a bunch of rich-kid bullies who cant handle honest competition,
and especially not on a stage of their own construction.
Served him at DEMA, just to be sure everyone sees what you get when you fuck
with them. Nothing is sacred to these shitbags, least of
all professionalism, professional courtesy or fair play. They want to
dominate everything and everyone, but they fucked with the wrong guy,
Patrick wont take this crap from the likes of them laying down. Good job
guys!
It aint worth the paper it is written on, nothing but a cheap shot from the
cheap seat, we'll run it back up their collective ass with a cherry on
the top of it. The gloves are off. Anyone know how to get ahold of Paul
Allens Lawyers? I have some information they might find interesting.
Scott
--
www.selchie.com
www.oxycheq.com
www.silent-submersion.com
www.customrebreathers.com
www.yachtcompressors.com
Lee Bell
news:voj0hjk...@corp.supernews.com...
> "Lee Bell" <lee...@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:nFbib.23363$Eo2....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> > Wasn't much. I saw him coming and held out my hand to him. He got in
my
> > face, screaming, cursing and telling me how he was going to sue my ass
> > off. I told him to get out of my face. He kept going, I told him to get
out of
> > my face. After several more rounds, I told him to get out of my face or
I
> > was calling the police to have him arrested, his choice. He kept on, I
> > dialed 911 and was about to push the call button when he closed his
mouth
> > in mid sentence, got in his car and drove away.
> And I bet you never got sued, did you?
No, but that's not a surprise. His claim was that I had lied about him,
something I've been pretty careful not to do. It wasn't necessary. The
truth was bad enough.
Lee
Scott
news:bmcf7p$ekh$0...@pita.alt.net...
> Oh that's cute.
Par for the course, and no suprise at all. Typical, really. I cant even
begin to count the number of people and times there have been
issued threats of legal action by this crowd.
> Patent infringement eh?
I'll know later in the week how much I can talk about, I dont want to help
their "case" in any way.
> Oh hoh hoh.....
Class act, eh? At DEMA no less.
> (Scott, make sure you buttfuck them and good on this one. I wanna watch -
> even if it is from the cheap seats. :-))
For an insignificant little nothing company, full of nobodies who never done
anything, we sure got 'em scared, dont we?
Scott
Airhog
> shitbags these people are?
>
> The chickenshit, ball-less punks served papers on Patrick at DEMA for
patent
> infringement. The lying-est, thieving-est, copying-est
> punks on the block, screaming like a bitch 'cause someone is building
better
> products, so they want to bury him in legal bills.
> Nothing but a bunch of rich-kid bullies who cant handle honest
competition,
> and especially not on a stage of their own construction.
You are fucking kidding us, right?
> Served him at DEMA, just to be sure everyone sees what you get when you
fuck
> with them. Nothing is sacred to these shitbags, least of
> all professionalism, professional courtesy or fair play. They want to
> dominate everything and everyone, but they fucked with the wrong guy,
> Patrick wont take this crap from the likes of them laying down. Good job
> guys!
What a bunch of no load cocksuckers. Fuck them. Did he keep his booth open
or did he have to shut down? I am anxious for this to hit the SS
wire...there seemed to be a handful of supporters over there for you guys.
Fucking trust fund babies need their collective asses notched down a bit.
Think I'll compose a Quest mail and get banned from there tonight. Might as
well leave no stone unturned.
You guys should institute a (insert name here for fear of beign sued) buy
back program--give a $10.00 rebate for turning in a 27 pound wing and $15.00
rebate for a doubles wing and then burn the collective pile. Is it Halcyon
or Microsoft? A lot of similiarities-ethically, morally, etc...Gates stole
his...oh wait...er...never mind...a lot of similarities....
They can SMD.
AirHog
--
"Behold the pale horse and the man who sat on him was death and hell
followed with him."
Dan Bracuk
patent
: infringement.
<snip>
: Served him at DEMA,
The punks, are they Halcyon? Those guys are in Florida, right?
Patrick, that's the guy you work with right? Does he live about 4000 miles
from Florida like you do?
So serving the summons at DEMA was certainly efficient wasn't it.
Dan Bracuk
As Big Ben said to the Leaning Tower of Pisa, I've got the time if you've
got the inclination.
The Best of Rec.Scuba
http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/
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Jack Farmer
Rudy Benner wrote:
> "Jack Farmer" <Crusa...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:vodl7te...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>He's got YOUR number though. haha
>>
>
>
> PLONK
>
>
Jack Farmer
mike gray, CID wrote:
> Jack Farmer wrote:
>
>> He's got YOUR number though. haha
>
>
> He doesn't have my number though, nor do I have his. So how about you
> run over there and ask him how much he wants to ban WKRP/GUE/Halcyon
> from rec.scuba
>
> Bet we could raise the money in a trice.
>
Jack Farmer
Nothing else.
Lee Bell
> Far as i can tell rec.scuba is not worth even banning. haha
Seems it's worth your continued presence, though, doesn't it?
Popeye
>Date: 10/12/2003 7:19 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <Mpdib.173348$0v4.13...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Stupendous.
Jerome's Sock Puppet
"Lee Bell" <lee...@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote in message news:1Cbib.23358
> I've gotten a bit of milage from it as well, milage that I think shows me
in a better
> light than somebody who would actually brag about being so agressive in
> public that anybody "had to call the police" on him. Unusual ethics to
say
> the least.
The problem with George is that one day, he's gonna get his ass kicked, and
probably pretty bad. Anyone that runs off at the lip like that has an
inevitable date with someone who doesn't care to hear about it.
Then it's his lawyer, cause thats what he really does.
I'm glad it wasn't you, babe.
--
Submergo ergo sum
MHK
>
> Hope springs eternal...
>
> Note that JJ has not posted since the edict was issued.... despite
> promises to post more about Halcyon there and on SB..... So GI's holding
> JJ's - and Halcyon's - dick as well?
>
> So much for the claim that JJ, Halcyon and GUE have nothing "official"
> to do with GI...
I recognize that sticking to facts isn't your strong suit, but my very
strong suspicion is that most who would care to comment were at DEMA and
doubtful that anyone was watching the comings and goings on rec.scuba, or
any lists for that matter.. Everyone at DEMA is spending a ton on money for
the booth, the travel, salaries, transportation of gear and the like, why
anyone thinks with all of that money invested in the annual trade show that
they would drop what they are doing to worry about what a few morons are
saying on rec.scuba just defies logic..
Later
MHK
"Karl Denninger" <ka...@FS.Denninger.Net> wrote in .
> The WKPP folks do not. They do it for THEIR pleasure, not for money or
> benefit.
I find it interesting coming from someone who is bitching and moaning about
the status of training as you are, to suggest that the members of the WKPP
derive no benefit from the team.. I've learned more about deco theory and
more about team protocols at the WKPP then I did from collectively every
PADI & IANTD class I ever took.. Just because you don't see the benefit
doesn't mean that one doesn't exist, it could be that you are just too blind
to see it, or too dumb to recognize it..
Later
MHK
"Scott" <sco...@localaccess.nospam.com> wrote in
> Naw, they'll let the smoke clear, and be back at it as if nothing
happened.
Actually Scott nothing of any real importance did happen. You throwing a
temper tantrum on rec.scuba against Halcyon/JJ/Carmichael et. al. hardly
constitutes a rare event..
Later
MHK
> issued. There WERE, up until that point, several active members on TDS.
Yet another factual lie.. Both Tony Rue and myself have responded to the
comments made in the Lamar English thread..
Later
MHK
light on.
> >I know for a fact the vaunted safety record of the WKPP is a little more
dinged
> >up than they let on.
>
> one... but have no confirmation or details. The word on the street was
> that secrecy was demanded or - you guessed it - you're off the team.
Karl,
You are batting zero in this thread.. First off Britannic wasn't a WKPP
dive, although several divers that did the dive were members of the WKPP,
but other's were not members of the WKPP.
Secondly, there was no secrecy associated with anything. Per got bent
following a 400' dive. He posted his account of the incident, it was widely
discussed and the belief is that he was slightly dehydrated. There was no
effort at all at secrecy. BTW, if you are going to make a case that it was a
WKPP dive, then you may want to know that Per lives in Sweden and isn't a
member of the WKPP, so you can't have it both ways.. It's becoming a pattern
of yours to throw out reckless and baseless charges casting aspersions on
anyone relating to DIR et. al.. At some point I just have to call you on
the carpet because you are just making shit up as you go in this thread and
I have no intention of letting that go unchallenged..
Later
Alan Street
mhk...@prodigy.net says...
Are you *active* in the WKPP?
MHK
"Alan Street" <alan@nonono_irsi.com> wrote in message > >
>
> Are you *active* in the WKPP?
>
Alan,
Why play games??? I'm as active as just about anyone lately given the black
water and no visibility..
Alan Street
mhk...@prodigy.net says...
I'm not playing games. I knew that you'd dove with them in the past and are
most likely welcome to dive with them in the future, but given your present
activities and travel schedule, I didn't know if you were still considered an
active member (who would therefore be subject to G3's admonishment to stay off
of TDS).
MHK
If you weren't playing games then please accept my apology, you never know
on this list ;-)
I think George's position isn't so much about an all out ban, as much as it
is "trying to teach pigs to sing", to use his words.
As I understand it, and I've spoken to George about it, is that why any
longer waste time arguing with people that have no clue what is done at
Wakulla??
Take for example the newly minted IANTD or TDI "tech" diver. He'll likely
be able to go on and on about how you should only spend 45 minutes at a PP02
of 1.6. He'll tell you all day long about the NOAA tables, Tom or Bret's
recommendations and on and on.. Then someone from the WKPP will post a
report about how George and JJ routinely exceed those very "limits" by
10,000%, but yet clowns still argue.. At what point does it become an
exercise in futility trying to teach "pigs to sing"?? Most divers will
never experience anything coming close to a dive at Wakulla, some will learn
from what is done there, other's will be offended by George's personality on
the net and want to argue with it.. It seems to me that unless someone can
do what they have done, they've got no credible basis to argue.. Therefore,
what is the point of WKPP divers trying to help some, while those that just
want to argue demagogue the issue???
Later
"
Scott
"MHK" <mhk...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:jsAib.16290$603....@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
Nor does your sucking their dicks.
Scott
> I recognize that sticking to facts isn't your strong suit, but my very
> strong suspicion is that most who would care to comment were at DEMA and
> doubtful that anyone was watching the comings and goings on rec.scuba, or
> any lists for that matter.. Everyone at DEMA is spending a ton on money
for
> the booth, the travel, salaries, transportation of gear and the like, why
> anyone thinks with all of that money invested in the annual trade show
that
> they would drop what they are doing to worry about what a few morons are
> saying on rec.scuba just defies logic..
And your buddy Big Bob served 14 different business with his bullshit
lawsuit.
And, his booth and the Halcyon booths were tombs.
So, why do you worry about what us morons are saying?
Scott
Scott
> I find it interesting coming from someone who is bitching and moaning
about
> the status of training as you are, to suggest that the members of the WKPP
> derive no benefit from the team.. I've learned more about deco theory and
> more about team protocols at the WKPP then I did from collectively every
> PADI & IANTD class I ever took.. Just because you don't see the benefit
> doesn't mean that one doesn't exist, it could be that you are just too
blind
> to see it, or too dumb to recognize it..
Or he doesn't give a fuck about you people, and can learn on his own.
Scott
> Why play games??? I'm as active as just about anyone lately given the
black
> water and no visibility..
The only one playing games here is you, Mikey.
Answer the fucking question;
Are you or are you not a member of the WKPP?
Simple question, yes or no answer.
MHK
"Scott" <sco...@localaccess.nospam.com> wrote in >
> Or he doesn't give a fuck about you people, and can learn on his own.
>
>
Geez Scott, you're getting about as predictable as Chilly.. Nice to know
you two will read everything I write and comment on it no matter how off
base you are..
It was Karl that actually indicating his interest by suggesting that absent
a benefit he couldn't understand why people do it.. I just clued him into
why I do it, I suspect most who support the WKPP will tell you the same
thing, we learn more there then any other IANTD, TDI or PADI class
available...
Later
MHK
"Scott" <sco...@localaccess.nospam.com> wrote in
> So, why do you worry about what us morons are saying?
>
You see Scott, I don't have a dog in your fight, I still think you are a
good guy.. You just have a major hardon for Carmichael, you're now in
competition with him and you keep trying to drag me into it.. I could care
less what you think of Carmichael/JJ/Halcyon/GUE et. al. It doesn't make
one bit of difference to me..
Later