A question for the NG on the NY Seahorse dive
GHorn82707
For those of you that do not like Dr. Black please look at his side also.
Those that don't like me, do the same. The whole thing started because of a
discussion on downwellings, Black said he didn't think Dr. Bennett of DAN
should be believed either. That was when I called him on it I know Dr. Bennett
personally. He than asked if I was the same G Horn that saw 200 seahorses on a
dive, I said I was. The thread went downhill from there, I suggested a bet and
stated that I would show him the seahorses, this was in July or August. At
this time they are mating and I believe that is why there are so many. Dr.
Black stated that he had never seen more than 1 or 2 at a time in his 24 year
career in diving. I have absolutlely no idea where he has been diving nor is
that important. I kept trying to get him to come to NY as did others to no
avail. Finally a few from the NG asked if I would take others, I said yes. We
could only get a date in Sept to accomodate everyone. We did the dive and
counted 60 + seahorses far more than just a couple, we than stopped counting
seahorses and enjoyed the rest of the dive well over a hour. I had mentioned
that there might not be as many since the water is changing and they might
start leaving. Some of the people on the dive said I should say we saw 200,
that was not my style. This can be confirmed by anyone that was there. I am
still going to donate $200 to DAN I will ask Dr. Bennett to confirm this on the
NG. Now for the question. Again please do not let personality get in the way
of your answers. Who do you think won the bet, me or Dr. Black. Should the
200 have been counted or not. Thank you all. Remember, next August we will
have the 2nd Annual Dr Blacks NY Seahorse Dive, all are welcome.
George R Horn
Owner Scuba Divine
Horn's Cycle Service
Brooklyn, NY
(718) 647 1089
www.scubadivine.com
chilly
GHorn82707 <ghorn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000911154019...@ng-df1.aol.com...
Jerome O'Neil
> I would like all of you to think about this for a moment before you answer.
> For those of you that do not like Dr. Black please look at his side also.
> Those that don't like me, do the same. The whole thing started because of a
> discussion on downwellings, Black said he didn't think Dr. Bennett of DAN
> should be believed either.
If anyone wants to have an annual Black "Ride the Downwell Dive," I can
arrange that.
> of your answers. Who do you think won the bet, me or Dr. Black. Should the
> 200 have been counted or not. Thank you all. Remember, next August we will
> have the 2nd Annual Dr Blacks NY Seahorse Dive, all are welcome.
George, in the spirit of things, of course he owes. The "200" number didn't
come about until after the dives had been aranged, and he needed to weasle.
Hell, we got a lawyer that adjudged in your favor.
Nils Mollerstrom
the same misstake. They swim like hell. As a result they very often come
up after the dive claiming that they didn't see a thing. They never will
until someone rips off their fins :)
My conclusion is that this is one of Dr Blacks (minor) problems.
IMHO you won the bet. 100 200 300 who cares? The seahorses were
there. Still making a donation to DAN also makes you a grat guy.
Dr Black looses all the way.
rgds /nils
In article <20000911154019...@ng-df1.aol.com>,
ghorn...@aol.com says...
Jerome O'Neil
> At times I have been doing dives with newbies. They just about all make
> the same misstake. They swim like hell. As a result they very often come
> up after the dive claiming that they didn't see a thing. They never will
> until someone rips off their fins :)
I am of the opinion that this is to compensate for poor boyancy skills.
It's easier to stay off the bottom if you're swimming.
Firewalker
Sounds like you all had a hell of a time! Good people and good diving
are a nice mix. I have to add my hat to the pile of the "Damn I Missed It".
As far as the letter of the bet/law goes, I guess Dr. Mojo wins. If we
had a challenge over pushups, and you claimed ability to do 200, and you
could only finish 60, you'd lose. If we had the same contest six months
later, maybe you would win. Different time, different situation. I have
(as I'm sure we all have) had many dives in the same locations on different
days that have produced different numbers of animals. It means nothing. I
am sure, as most people here are, that you saw the number (+/- 200)
seahorses on that day. Unfortunately you're dealing with the likes of Mr.
Mojo, and his childish schoolyard bullshit. I can clearly see him stamping
his feet, and screaming "I'm right! I showed them!" But to what end? The
$200 to DAN is a nice touch. Let Blackie enjoy his shallow victory. Since
he seems to be a shallow man, it's all he can get.
Firewalker
"GHorn82707" <ghorn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000911154019...@ng-df1.aol.com...
Jason O'Rourke
>could only get a date in Sept to accomodate everyone. We did the dive and
>counted 60 + seahorses far more than just a couple, we than stopped counting
>seahorses and enjoyed the rest of the dive well over a hour. I had mentioned
Certainly the right move. Everyone spent considerable effort to show up
for the dive; it would be a shame to waste it on Black. After you've seen
60 of em, why continue?
Since you're willing to make the DAN donation, I'd say do it in your
shop's name, not black's club. He doesn't deserve that much credit.
I'm not going to touch the 'legal' aspects of the bet. He changed the
terms after the fact. We all know what the bet was about: that there are
scores of sea horses in NY in the summer. That was proven beyond a doubt.
--
Jason O'Rourke j...@best.com www.jor.com
Last dive @ HMCS Yukon. 37 mins @ 100ft depth max
mjbl...@my-deja.com
Enough said, the Four Lakes Scuba Club will await your check
for $200, so that we can contribute it to DAN (THROUGH OUR
FUNDRAISER Dive For DAN). Your direct contribution short-changes
us of our club's platinum sponsorship, something we are proud
of. Keep your word, George, and stop twisting. MJB
In article <20000911154019...@ng-df1.aol.com>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
DennisW
presence was not part of the final bet, and the agreement were for 200, then
it would appear that, to a lawyer, you'd have lost.
Since he wasn't there, and there were 60+ seahorses, I'd say that the bet
was off. :-) But as you're a man of honor, I would go ahead & make the
donation to DAN.
Next, do a 'double or nothing' and invite him next year during the 'peak'.
He probably won't come, evidently preferring seeing old cars to seahorses,
but still.....
Dennis
"GHorn82707" <ghorn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000911154019...@ng-df1.aol.com...
Trace Malinowski
But, here's my take on the bet. I'd have to agree that Firewalker is right that
if the bet were similar to betting number of push-ups, on that day, George
would have lost by his team's admission of their count. However, the problem is
that it doesn't sound like the search was done as scientifically and
methodically as possible and so sea horses could have been counted twice and
others not counted at all. (It took me a few minutes to spot one my buddy had
found in St. Lucia looking right at it.)
Next, was a precise area agreed upon? Like there had to be 200 seahorses in a
50 yard by 50 yard range or something like that? I'm a swimmer in the water. I
like to go off and look for stuff and not spend all day looking at pretty blue
fish in a small area. Therefore, had I been there buddied with another swimmer,
and if we had been able to see every seahorse in our coverage zone, how many
might we have counted if we swam 1 mile?
When George mentioned being able to see hundreds, I assumed when he made that
statement, that a charter boat sized group of divers covering a large range
would be able to count hundreds. Yet, this small group counted more than 60
seahorses. Dr. Black said he's never seen more than 1 or 2 at a time in his 24
year diving career. Nor have I seen more than 1 or 2 in 17 or 18 years of SCUBA
diving. 60 freakin seahorses??? WOW!!! I think George proved that there are
LOTS of them in New York City -- alive even!
Now, had both parties agreed to a precise distance, number of divers in the
area, method of counting, documentation, etc., there wouldn't be so much gray
area.
If George had exaggerated at all when he made the initial statement defending
that there are lots of seahorses in NYC, that is to be expected. George is
American, we exaggerate to make a point. If George were English, he probably
would have said that he could find a bloody good few of the buggers, in which
case 60+ is definitely beyond a bloody good few.
Since the thing started with one guy basically doubting that there were more
than a few if any seahorses, and another guy defending there are lots of them,
I think that the way George intends to pay is just. DAN gets its money. George
pays $200 for failing to make a full and accurate count. (Popeye can count? :-)
And, Dr. Black gets the satisfaction of not having to pay $200 to DAN.
I think the point was to prove more seahorses than imagineable in NYC and 60+
seahorses on this dive surely says something.
A rematch might be a good idea next year whenever George thinks the water
conditions are ripe for a count. In fact, that might be worth some city funding
to such a count.
Sir Malinowski, Knight of Black Wetsuit, Prince of Free Divers,
Champion of the Lady of the Lake, Lord and Keeper of The Malinowski
Principle.
http://hometown.aol.com/tracemalin/
OldSalt
since I have Supernews, it's amazing that I could even see it:
>I would like all of you to think about this for a moment before you answer.
>For those of you that do not like Dr. Black please look at his side also.
See my post in a separate thread please George.
Lee Bell
> Who do you think won the bet, me or Dr. Black. Should the
> 200 have been counted or not. Thank you all. Remember, next August we
will
> have the 2nd Annual Dr Blacks NY Seahorse Dive, all are welcome.
It seems to me I have enjoyed your posts most of the time and that I have
not cared for Dr. Black's about the same proportion of the time. This does
not, however, form enough basis for deciding what I think of either of you.
Online is not real life. I suspect I'd like you both pretty well, person to
person.
It seems that you've really asked two questions. The first question is who
won the bet. Since I didn't follow the development of the bet past the
first post or two, I don't know who won. I do, however, know that bets tend
to be specific. If the bet was that you could show Dr. Black 200 seahorses
and he didn't show up for the dive, then the bet remains undecided. If he
shows up, you still have a chance to win. If the bet was that you would
show a group who would report back to Dr. Black the same 200 seahorses and
you didn't show them 200 or more, then you lost the bet. If the bet was
that you could show a lot of seahorses in the same place at the same time,
then you won the bet. The details determine the winner or loser of a bet.
If you are unsure of the details, crank up Deja News and refresh your memory
or, if necessary, Dr. Black's memory.
The second question is, in my opinion, whether you made your point regarding
the seahorses. In my opinion, you did.
The lesson in all this for you is "be careful how you word your bets and
make real sure that the details are for the bet you intended." At any rate,
if you decide you lost the bet, as I suspect you may, I do suggest you be
just as honorable in paying off as you were in your seahorse count. If the
deal was a contribution through Dr. Black's club DAN fund, send him a check
made out to the club. Assuming that this was the agreement, bypassing his
club fund is petty and inconsistent with the image you, as a dive shop
owner, would like to and should want to project to others. Either way,
however, a contribution to DAN is a win for all of us.
Lee
DennisW
a) George is one of the few divers who can see more than one or two and
b) the area that they dove was a localized area.
This matches Dr Black's assertion that
"there may be a few divers who can see more in a localized area"......
Face it, even with a count of 60, Black was still proven wrong - there are
sea horses in the NY area (evidently brought up by the Gulf steam, from what
another poster said).
Dennis
"Trace Malinowski" <trace...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000911171206...@ng-cd1.aol.com...
Jerome O'Neil
> Either way, however, a contribution to DAN is a win for all of us.
And if Blek had half a hair on his ass, it'd be a win for cancer research, too.
But he don't.
SneakPeeks
1) You didn't let me in on this get together. <Date/Time/Etc.>
2) You stayed in one little area when searching.
Should I have been there I would have taken you to the other side of the
bridge where the water was a lot calmer then where you guys were. If you
guys haven't noticed, they were working on the bridge for a few months now'
day and night, during the day you have all the noise and traffic in the
water,
at night they are still working generators running for all the lighting. Sea
horses live in calm waters' using currents to get from one area to another.
And they hate Sun Light', or any other type of lighting.
Note that it was also low tide about the time you guys stated you were
there. Someone stated finding them at I think they said 30 feet. That would
only be because they had to move down because of the low tide. At this time
of the year September' they start to lose a layer or two of skin and the
older bigger ones can not take cold water to much. This is the reason most
were seen in shallow water where it was warmer. Did anyone happen to look
over to the other side of the bridge to see all the fisherman fishing???
Golden 2 WORDS for all to remember in the future' "Fish Line" The sea
horses love this stuff!! The more the better you have a chance of seeing
many, many Sea Horses in one place like we have here in New York!!!~ Any
way' Black lost' simple' he was not there for the bet!!!
George weather you found 1 or 60 or 200' Black didn't show up for the
bet/game/dive/flight/etc.
You WINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
SneaksPeeks' . ..." I seen a thousand Sea Horses' <Laughing and running for
cover!!!. ...;-}"
Bob Crownfield
>
> George,
>
> Sounds like you all had a hell of a time! Good people and good diving
> are a nice mix. I have to add my hat to the pile of the "Damn I Missed It".
>
> As far as the letter of the bet/law goes, I guess Dr. Mojo wins. If we
> had a challenge over pushups, and you claimed ability to do 200, and you
> could only finish 60, you'd lose. If we had the same contest six months
> later, maybe you would win. Different time, different situation. I have
> (as I'm sure we all have) had many dives in the same locations on different
> days that have produced different numbers of animals. It means nothing. I
> am sure, as most people here are, that you saw the number (+/- 200)
> seahorses on that day. Unfortunately you're dealing with the likes of Mr.
> Mojo, and his childish schoolyard bullshit. I can clearly see him stamping
> his feet, and screaming "I'm right! I showed them!" But to what end? The
> $200 to DAN is a nice touch. Let Blackie enjoy his shallow victory. Since
> he seems to be a shallow man, it's all he can get.
> ( \\ // )
> \ \\ // /
> \_\\||||//_/
> "" \/ _ _ \
> || \/|(x)(x)|
> || \/ | |
> \\ __________________\/ \ /
> \\ / // |____|
> \/ || / \
> | \| \ 0 0 /
> \ ) V / \\__/ - Bad George sees Seahorses.!
> \ / ( / I know better. I am perfect.
> \ /_________| |_/ I will weasle out?? Only 60 !
> / /\ / | || /\___ I am PondDiver!!
> / / / / \ || @@@@@@@@@@@ O \
> | | | | ____| || @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@___\/ -Blaaaack, you ass!
> | | | | /_|____|| @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ you should have gone.
> |_| |_| |_| @ @@@@@@@@@@@@ they had a lot of fun.
> \_\ \_\ \_\ @@@@@@@@@@@ you better pay up!
> || ||
> ~~ ~~
They saw more in N Y in one dive
than you have seen in your lifetime of diving !!
--
Bob Crownfield, Crown...@Home.com
Photography, Flying, Delphi Rad Addict
Now diving the Pacific in the LA Area.
"Protect freedoms before they become extinct."
Bob Crownfield
> ( \\ // )
> \ \\ // /
> \_\\||||//_/
> "" \/ _ _ \
> || \/|(x)(x)|
> || \/ | |
> \\ __________________\/ \ /
> \\ / // |____|
> \/ || / \
> | \| \ 0 0 /
> \ ) V / \\__/ - Bad George sees Seahorses.!
> \ / ( / I know better. I am perfect.
> \ /_________| |_/ I will weasle out?? Only 60 !
> / /\ / | || /\___ I am PondDiver!!
> / / / / \ || @@@@@@@@@@@ O \
> | | | | ____| || @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@___\/ -Blaaaack, you ass!
> | | | | /_|____|| @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ you should have gone.
> |_| |_| |_| @ @@@@@@@@@@@@ they had a lot of fun.
> \_\ \_\ \_\ @@@@@@@@@@@ you better pay up!
> || ||
> ~~ ~~
They saw more in N Y in one dive
than you have seen in your lifetime of diving !!
> Enough said, the Four Lakes Scuba Club will await your check
--
Bob Crownfield
> ( \\ // )
> \ \\ // /
> \_\\||||//_/
> "" \/ _ _ \
> || \/|(x)(x)|
> || \/ | |
> \\ __________________\/ \ /
> \\ / // |____|
> \/ || / \
> | \| \ 0 0 /
> \ ) V / \\__/ - Bad George sees Seahorses.!
> \ / ( / I know better. I am perfect.
> \ /_________| |_/ I will weasle out?? Only 60 !
> / /\ / | || /\___ I am PondDiver!!
> / / / / \ || @@@@@@@@@@@ O \
> | | | | ____| || @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@___\/ -Blaaaack, you ass!
> | | | | /_|____|| @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ you should have gone.
> |_| |_| |_| @ @@@@@@@@@@@@ they had a lot of fun.
> \_\ \_\ \_\ @@@@@@@@@@@ you better pay up!
> || ||
> ~~ ~~
They saw more in N Y in one dive
than you have seen in your lifetime of diving !!
> But he don't.
Clifford Beshers
> If George had exaggerated at all when he made the initial statement defending
> that there are lots of seahorses in NYC, that is to be expected. George is
> American, we exaggerate to make a point.
Worse, Brooklyn.
________________
Clifford Beshers
bes...@cs.columbia.edu
Clifford Beshers
> Further, it does prove that:
> a) George is one of the few divers who can see more than one or two and
> b) the area that they dove was a localized area.
We'd have gone further, but the Coast Guard pier was one way, the
fisherman were the other, boat traffic and construction dredges were
offshore, and coming back much later would have meant getting carried
on the tide.
________________
Clifford Beshers
bes...@cs.columbia.edu
SneakPeeks
George I forgot, there was a number three
3) You should have brought a 5 gallon bucket, an aerator to bubble the
water,
another smaller 1 gallon bucket to replace some of the water in the 5 gallon
bucket a little bit at a time to keep the water fresh, then all you had to
do was to bring up ( 1 ) pregnant Sea Horse about to burst!!!
Yes' you would have all seen at least, at least a thousand little new born
baby sea horses.
This time of year you see a lot of them with the bellies about to pop.
Did anyone see a pregnant one? It would have had a big belly on it!!!
And Goerge would have all around won the bet for all time if he'd of brought
just one up pregnant. ...;-}
This would have been my way to win this bet, afterwards I would have just
took a 10 minute drive to the Brooklyn Aquarium and donated them!!! For all
to see. ...;-}
Anyone want to bet I haven't seen a thousand Sea Horses in New York???
<Still running for cover. ...;-} SneakPeeks'
Clifford Beshers
George,
Who is this, and is this true? I'll go next Sunday if we can find
where. No reason it has to be done on one dive.
Cliff
________________
Clifford Beshers
bes...@cs.columbia.edu
SneakPeeks
The Bet was for Black to come to New York to see 100 sea horses, PERIOD!!!
Georges argument throughout this thread was always to try and Get Black here
to NY Period.
That was the bet!!! Correct me if I am wrong?
SneakPeeks' all in all this was a fun thread to read. ...;-} Seya' NEXT
YEAR!!!
chilly
on, he told George that it had to be all adults and couldn't include babies.
Which, of course, was at or near the point that Blehck started to realize he
was wrong or he wouldn't have felt the need to start qualifying.
SneakPeeks <Sneak...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:#W#Qi3DHAHA.250@cpmsnbbsa09...
Firewalker
What was the purpose of this post? It looks like a repeat of a repeat.
Firewalker
"Bob Crownfield" <Crown...@Home.com> wrote in message
news:39BD55...@Home.com...
mjbl...@my-deja.com
specific, 200 or more seahorses counted, yes or no. We have
an occasional piranha show up in Wisconsin rivers, but I would
never claim "hundreds." Although I am surprised to hear about tropical
species as far north as NY, George's claim about seeing hundreds
of seahorses was and still is absurd. My next question: Is this
species of Hippocampus the same as the Caribbean, and if this
is a Gulfstream phenomenon, how far north are they found. MJB
In article <39bd...@usenet.ugsolutions.com>,
chilly
worry that Blehck will just insist you guys prove that none of the seahorses
you see next weekend are any of the same that you saw this past weekend? :^)
Clifford Beshers <bes...@fenton.beshers.net> wrote in message
news:m3lmwy4...@bertin.beshers.net...
DennisW
The only reason I brought up the area size was due to Black's assertion
that "a few divers in localized areas may see more", refusing to consider
that George Horn is a diver (now proven "one of the few") and that he ives
in "a localized area" :-)
I can find the original quote if you want.
Dennis
"Clifford Beshers" <bes...@fenton.beshers.net> wrote in message
news:m3og1u4...@bertin.beshers.net...
Dan Bracuk
" Who do you think won the bet, me or Dr. Black. Should the 200 have
been counted or not. "
Dr Black won the bet. The way you describe things, partway through
the dive you decided that other things were more important, and
stopped trying to win.
Dan Bracuk
Toronto, Canada
It's bad luck to be superstitious.
Best of Rec.Scuba http://www.crosswinds.net/~recdotscuba/index.htm
Clifford Beshers
> Hi Cliff,
> The only reason I brought up the area size was due to Black's assertion
> that "a few divers in localized areas may see more", refusing to consider
> that George Horn is a diver (now proven "one of the few") and that he ives
> in "a localized area" :-)
>
> I can find the original quote if you want.
No, don't bother. I know what you meant. Just trollin'.
________________
Clifford Beshers
bes...@cs.columbia.edu
Scott
> George,
>
> Who is this, and is this true? I'll go next Sunday if we can find
> where. No reason it has to be done on one dive.
Ahh, the noose tightens...
Wont matter, Black is a punk of the first order. He lost before anyone got
wet.
He lost when he called George a liar.
Scott
Clifford Beshers
> Online is not real life. I suspect I'd like you both pretty well, person to
> person.
If online is not part of life,
what happened to cause all this strife?
Informing, advising,
joking and fighting.
Are the bits just a tune on some fife?
________________
Clifford Beshers
bes...@cs.columbia.edu
Clifford Beshers
> If the
> deal was a contribution through Dr. Black's club DAN fund, send him a check
> made out to the club.
George said, donate to a charity of your choice. Black wants the
money to go through his club so he can gloat, pure and simple.
________________
Clifford Beshers
bes...@cs.columbia.edu
Scuba-Chin
Regardless of WHO won, George proved Black wrong...plain and simple. There
are seahorses in NY, and there are plenty of them. I personally feel that,
numbers and semantics aside, George won. I commend him for conceding and
fulfilling his promise of $200 to DAN. Now, wouldn't it be nice if Black
did the same and made his $200 donation to breast cancer research. Then,
EVERYONE would be a winner!!! Novel idea, but I seriously doubt that Black
is honorable enough to do it.
Jenn
Lisa Price
Less than 200 seahorses = Black wins
I think that warrants a tie.
How about EACH making the promised donations in good faith?
That way cancer and DAN can benefit.
lisa
GHorn82707 <ghorn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000911154019...@ng-df1.aol.com...
> I would like all of you to think about this for a moment before you
answer.
> For those of you that do not like Dr. Black please look at his side also.
> Those that don't like me, do the same. The whole thing started because of
a
> discussion on downwellings, Black said he didn't think Dr. Bennett of DAN
> should be believed either. That was when I called him on it I know Dr.
Bennett
> personally. He than asked if I was the same G Horn that saw 200 seahorses
on a
> dive, I said I was. The thread went downhill from there, I suggested a
bet and
> stated that I would show him the seahorses, this was in July or August.
At
> this time they are mating and I believe that is why there are so many.
Dr.
> Black stated that he had never seen more than 1 or 2 at a time in his 24
year
> career in diving. I have absolutlely no idea where he has been diving nor
is
> that important. I kept trying to get him to come to NY as did others to
no
> avail. Finally a few from the NG asked if I would take others, I said
yes. We
> could only get a date in Sept to accomodate everyone. We did the dive and
> counted 60 + seahorses far more than just a couple, we than stopped
counting
> seahorses and enjoyed the rest of the dive well over a hour. I had
mentioned
> that there might not be as many since the water is changing and they might
> start leaving. Some of the people on the dive said I should say we saw
200,
> that was not my style. This can be confirmed by anyone that was there. I
am
> still going to donate $200 to DAN I will ask Dr. Bennett to confirm this
on the
> NG. Now for the question. Again please do not let personality get in the
way
> of your answers. Who do you think won the bet, me or Dr. Black. Should
the
Bob Crownfield
> ( \\ // )
> \ \\ // /
> \_\\||||//_/
> "" \/ _ _ \
> || \/|(x)(x)|
> || \/ | |
> \\ __________________\/ \ /
> \\ / // |____|
> \/ || / \
> | \| \ 0 0 /
> \ ) V / \\__/ - Bad George sees Seahorses.!
> \ / ( / I know better. I am perfect.
> \ /_________| |_/ I will weasle out?? Only 60 !
> / /\ / | || /\___ I am PondDiver!!
> / / / / \ || @@@@@@@@@@@ O \
> | | | | ____| || @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@___\/ -Blaaaack, you ass!
> | | | | /_|____|| @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ you should have gone.
> |_| |_| |_| @ @@@@@@@@@@@@ they had a lot of fun.
> \_\ \_\ \_\ @@@@@@@@@@@ you better pay up!
> || ||
> ~~ ~~
They saw more in N Y in one dive
than you have seen in your lifetime of diving !!
>
> Scott
Bob Crownfield
>
> See Lee Bell's post for a well-considered answer. The bet was
> specific, 200 or more seahorses counted, yes or no. We have
> an occasional piranha show up in Wisconsin rivers, but I would
> never claim "hundreds." Although I am surprised to hear about tropical
> species as far north as NY, George's claim about seeing hundreds
> of seahorses was and still is absurd.
> ( \\ // )
> \ \\ // /
> \_\\||||//_/
> "" \/ _ _ \
> || \/|(x)(x)|
> || \/ | |
> \\ __________________\/ \ /
> \\ / // |____|
> \/ || / \
> | \| \ 0 0 /
> \ ) V / \\__/ - Bad George sees Seahorses.!
> \ / ( / I know better. I am perfect.
> \ /_________| |_/ I will weasle out?? Only 60 !
> / /\ / | || /\___ I am PondDiver!!
> / / / / \ || @@@@@@@@@@@ O \
> | | | | ____| || @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@___\/ -Blaaaack, you ass!
> | | | | /_|____|| @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ you should have gone.
> |_| |_| |_| @ @@@@@@@@@@@@ they had a lot of fun.
> \_\ \_\ \_\ @@@@@@@@@@@ you better pay up!
> || ||
> ~~ ~~
They saw more in N Y in one dive
than you have seen in your lifetime of diving !!
--
Bob Crownfield
He would have to be a gentleman.
>
> Jenn
Scuba-Chin
Hey Lisa...Great minds think alike! Now, do you honestly think Black will
cough up the 200 smackers? Doubt it.
Jenn
Lisa Price <lpr...@netwalk.com> wrote in message
news:8Rdv5.4964$Ic.2...@typhoon.columbus.rr.com...
Genisys Davicom Inc.
> A question to all <
George Horn said there were sea horses in N.Y. City waters.
Dr. Black said George Horn was bullshitting.
Dr. Black and George Horn set a bet , the bet continued to be modified to
number and what sea horses would qualify. The qualifications on the bet were
no more than a hedge.
Bottom line:
Horn - There are sea horses in N.Y.
Black - Bullshit.
Horn - Bet ?
Black - Your on.
Black lost.
David
Edmonton, Alberta
Lisa Price
When looking at the tone of black's various posts over the past couple days,
it's something he wouldn't even consider!
Hey, George? If you send money to DAN, can I contribute to your
contribution?
lisa
Scuba-Chin <cj-co...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:8pjr42$4m8k$1...@newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com...
GHorn82707
but this might include babies. I never swam anywhere near the other side did
not think we had to get more than the 60 count we had, I was mistaken. You
would like Larry.
GHorn82707
won the bet, me or Dr. Black. Should the 200 have
>been counted or not. "
>
>Dr Black won the bet. The way you describe things, partway through
>the dive you decided that other things were more important, and
>stopped trying to win.
GHorn82707
George R Horn
GHorn82707
I would.
SneakPeeks
In...@SeaHorseTales.com
This is a wonderful website for anything pertaining
to Sea Horse Stories.
Please go to their web site at:
You will get a real kick out of the stuff there if you like Sea Horses.
And I for one think they should come here and read this or maybe
someone here like Salty etc., write them and better inform them of
this thread. ...;)
Also stop by Georges web site at:
We would like to add your story of your trip to New York to see these Sea
Horses.
We also need pictures of the group for the website' hope you guys took many
pictures
on this trip??? Get your pictures up on Georges website e-mail them with a
Bio or story
on your trip here to NY. to:
SneakPeeks'
EricP
I like the way you conduct yourself on this bet by taking the high
road. I'm impressed with your effort in showing that there are
Seahorses up in NY. Regardless of how many actually exist, I would like
to donate $100 to the Breast Cancer Research (not sure if I got that
name right), rather than Psoriasis Foundation (which I used to donate
some meager money but stopped due to questionable conducts by its
online support members). NOTE: I don't want to take side, but just want
to help with the charity. Can you supply the following information?
1. Payable to whom (official name and address, at least verifiable)
2. Latest financial statement indicating breakdown of expenses and
percentage income directly diverted to actual research. (for due
diligence - just need to know where the money goes)
If you need to fax the info let me know. I'll give an 800 number to
call.
Also I hope they keep the name of donors confidential, if requested.
In article <20000911154019...@ng-df1.aol.com>,
> of your answers. Who do you think won the bet, me or Dr. Black.
Should the
> 200 have been counted or not. Thank you all. Remember, next August
we will
> have the 2nd Annual Dr Blacks NY Seahorse Dive, all are welcome.
>
> George R Horn
> Owner Scuba Divine
> Horn's Cycle Service
> Brooklyn, NY
> (718) 647 1089
> www.scubadivine.com
>
--
eric
Report cyber stalkers/harassment immediately to the FBI.
Internet Fraud Complaint Center https://www.ifccfbi.gov/
Privacy Rights http://www.privacyrights.org
$1000 reward for material information leading to
the successful prosecution of anyone illegally
collecting and misusing private information.
http://www.deja.com/my/pb.xp?member_name=ericpsor
Dobie
Just look at the record. All the postings are still there. Here is
what I found and posted at another thread. It's worth the bandwidth to
post it again at this thread
===========================================
George,
Here is what I found in old postings regarding this seahorse challenge
Subject: Where to see hundreds of sea horses Date: 08/14/2000 Author:
mjblackmd
Any world travelers out there wanna claim to have seen hundreds of sea
horses on a single dive? One or two maybe, but one or two hundred? I
know this sounds unbelievable, but someone here (who does not
exaggerate) claims there is such a place...ready for this? New York
City's Jamaica Bay. Those New Yorkers just keep blowing us all away, or
so they think. Sorry George, but I might believe it if I hear it from
someone else too. MJB
Subject: Re: Where to see hundreds of sea horses Date: 08/14/2000
Author: GHorn82707
Black, this is between you and me period, I don't care who else chimes
in. You are a coward plain and simple, get your candy ass to NY and I
will show you hundreds of seahorses period. Bring your money, then you
can donate it to charity
Subject: The Seahorse Challenge Date: 08/15/2000 Author: GHorn82707 Hey
Dr. Black, I am not angry. I have challenged you to come to NY and see
for yourself. I told you to wager whatever you wanted, the looser would
give the wager to the others charity, I picked Breast Cancer
Research. ...... Maybe Dr. Black would like to pay $20.00 per head. How
is that for a wager.
Subject: 200 or more seahorses on a single dive? Date: 08/16/2000
Author: mjblackmd
George Horn claims that such a place exists, in New York City's Jamaica
Bay. As a photographer who has seen maybe ten seahorses in twenty-four
years of diving around the globe, I point out the ridiculousness of
George's claim, yet he persists.
Subject: $200 Challenge to George Horn Date: 09/08/2000 Author:
mjblackmd
OK George, $200 to your charity if you see 200 or more seahorses on
your upcoming dive. If not, you agree to $200 to my charity of choice.
Since I will not be seeing the seahorses in person, I will have to rely
on private emails to confirm the accuracy of the count. I trust the
seahorses will be so numerous as not to be counted twice, and also
trust you will count adults only (i.e. not a hundred tiny babies).
Deal? MJB
Subject: Re: $200 Challenge to George Horn Date: 09/08/2000
I made the challenge, not you. I told you to wager what you thought you
could afford to loose. Glad to see you finally got some balls. You must
have realized that if you didn't accept the challenge you would never
live it down on this NG. It is apparent that you have no idea what I am
like, I made the challenge and I will live up to it, I would never
cheat you out of your money it's not worth it. I have no idea how many
will be there but I am sure that there will be enough.
==========================
I think Lalin's post pretty much sum it up
Subject: Re: $200 Challenge to George Horn Date: 09/08/2000
Author: Lalin
Black, this thread began with you claiming that George was a liar
stating that he saw sea horses in NYC. If they go down and see a whole
bunch of them, you have to admit you opened your mouth without knowing
the facts. What difference does it make if they see 20, 50, or 500 sea
horses ? You couldn't believe that there was even ONE. For you 1 or 2
seahorses on a Caribbean dive is a rarity, so wouldn't you give credit
to "only" 10 seahorses on dirty/cold/shity NYC ? I would. I have many
dives in these waters and never saw one of those little critters.
Unfortunately I will miss this opportunity.
==========================
The above record clearly showed that you made the wager at $20 a head.
If Dr. Black had agreed to the challenge (on your term, not his), he
owed Breast Cancer Research at least $1200. You certainly do not have
to donate $200 to DAN since you did not accept his condition and
therefore did not 'loose', but if you decide to donate the money, it's
just one more proof of the kind of man you are.
With regards,
======================================
Techically, nobody won because neither had explicitly accepted each
other's condition. Common sense dictates that George is closer to
winning because 60+ is definitely closer to 100 and certainly a far cry
from 'one or two'.
By agreeing to donate $200, George had implicitly 'agreed' to Black's
condition and admitted that he lost this bet. It is fair to interpret
that Black had also imlicitly agreed to the $20 per head wager.
Therefore, Black should donate $1200 to Breast Cancer Research (instead
of $20 or $40)).
Unless Black agrees to cough up $1200 to a good cause, George is a
winner at least in character.
JOEPRODIVER
I`m going to put the seahorse site on my info link. Hey I thought you had a
life. hahahahaah!!!
I would have liked to have seen them myself.
Louie
GHorn82707
appreciated. I will inform Peter where the extra money came from.>Jenn,
>When looking at the tone of black's various posts over the past couple days,
>it's something he wouldn't even consider!
>
>Hey, George? If you send money to DAN, can I contribute to your
>contribution?
>
>lisa
CPR86
>For All who got lost or came in late on this thread.
>
>The Bet was for Black to come to New York to see 100 sea horses, PERIOD!!!
George, grab your gear and dive there this sunday and count.. Didn't see any
time limit put on this bet...=)
CS.......
Thought of the day -
Shin: a device for finding furniture in the dark.
--
Http://members.aol.com/cpr86/scuba.html
List of Internet scuba shops....
Icarus (Dennis)
except by a select few divers living in localized area, neither of which
applied to George Horn or the NY area?
Dennis
<mjbl...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8pjmec$h3m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> See Lee Bell's post for a well-considered answer. The bet was
> specific, 200 or more seahorses counted, yes or no. We have
> an occasional piranha show up in Wisconsin rivers, but I would
> never claim "hundreds." Although I am surprised to hear about tropical
> species as far north as NY, George's claim about seeing hundreds
> of seahorses was and still is absurd. My next question: Is this
> species of Hippocampus the same as the Caribbean, and if this
> is a Gulfstream phenomenon, how far north are they found. MJB
>
<snip>
Icarus (Dennis)
Limerick Knights. I will point pout that the much-maligned Dr Black said 200
or more on a SINGLE dive. A dive this past Sunday, and another dive this
next Suday, are clearly TWO separate dives. The counter is reset, and any
sea horses that were counted on the first dive, are eligible to be counted
again.
He can insist, but it would not matter. :-)
Dennis
chilly <sla...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Tcdv5.1227$Y7.1...@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com...
> Oh, Cliff, we can always count on you to be clever. However, don't you
> worry that Blehck will just insist you guys prove that none of the
seahorses
> you see next weekend are any of the same that you saw this past weekend?
:^)
>
> Clifford Beshers <bes...@fenton.beshers.net> wrote in message
> news:m3lmwy4...@bertin.beshers.net...
> > "SneakPeeks" <Sneak...@email.msn.com> writes:
> >
> > > George' you knuckle head you made two mistakes!!!
> > >
> > > 1) You didn't let me in on this get together. <Date/Time/Etc.>
> > >
> > > 2) You stayed in one little area when searching.
> > >
> > > Should I have been there I would have taken you to the other side of
the
> > > bridge where the water was a lot calmer then where you guys were. If
you
> > > guys haven't noticed, they were working on the bridge for a few months
> now'
> > > day and night, during the day you have all the noise and traffic in
the
> > > water,
> > > at night they are still working generators running for all the
lighting.
> Sea
> > > horses live in calm waters' using currents to get from one area to
> another.
> > > And they hate Sun Light', or any other type of lighting.
> > > Note that it was also low tide about the time you guys stated you were
> > > there. Someone stated finding them at I think they said 30 feet. That
> would
> > > only be because they had to move down because of the low tide. At this
> time
> > > of the year September' they start to lose a layer or two of skin and
the
> > > older bigger ones can not take cold water to much. This is the reason
> most
> > > were seen in shallow water where it was warmer. Did anyone happen to
> look
> > > over to the other side of the bridge to see all the fisherman
fishing???
> > > Golden 2 WORDS for all to remember in the future' "Fish Line" The sea
> > > horses love this stuff!! The more the better you have a chance of
seeing
> > > many, many Sea Horses in one place like we have here in New York!!!~
Any
> > > way' Black lost' simple' he was not there for the bet!!!
> > >
> > > George weather you found 1 or 60 or 200' Black didn't show up for the
> > > bet/game/dive/flight/etc.
> > > You WINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
> > >
> > > SneaksPeeks' . ..." I seen a thousand Sea Horses' <Laughing and
running
> for
> > > cover!!!. ...;-}"
> > >
> >
> > George,
> >
> > Who is this, and is this true? I'll go next Sunday if we can find
> > where. No reason it has to be done on one dive.
> >
> > Cliff
> >
> >
> > ________________
> > Clifford Beshers
> > bes...@cs.columbia.edu
>
>
Icarus (Dennis)
routing? Or from his head. Whichever.
Dennis
Jerome O'Neil <jer...@activeindexing.com> wrote in message
news:gqcv5.399$EW2.2...@news.uswest.net...
> "Lee Bell" <lee...@ix.netcom.com> elucidates:
> > Either way, however, a contribution to DAN is a win for all of us.
>
> And if Blek had half a hair on his ass, it'd be a win for cancer research,
too.
>
> But he don't.
>
bonnage
If you take it to the letter of the *law* then Dr. Black is correct you did
not count the amount of seahorses that was stated in the bet. However
I do not think the issue was purely a mathematical tally of the amount
of seahorses present in the area at the time. The inference was there would
be lots more than the one or two normally seen on a dive, and to this end
you succeeded. You have without a doubt proved your point to the ng but
this probably does not constitute winning the bet that was made.
It would however be a nice gesture from the doctor if he conceded that the
point was made and reciprocated your donation to charity. In my opinion
he is not a welsher as he paid his bet with MK., but I expect to get flamed
for taking his part.
I'm glad you had a great dive I am certainly envious, as I have never seen
one.
Regards
Richard.
GHorn82707 <ghorn...@aol.com> wrote in article
<20000911154019...@ng-df1.aol.com>...
> I would like all of you to think about this for a moment before you
answer.
> For those of you that do not like Dr. Black please look at his side also.
> Those that don't like me, do the same. The whole thing started because
of a
> discussion on downwellings, Black said he didn't think Dr. Bennett of DAN
> should be believed either. That was when I called him on it I know Dr.
Bennett
> personally. He than asked if I was the same G Horn that saw 200
seahorses on a
> dive, I said I was. The thread went downhill from there, I suggested a
bet and
> stated that I would show him the seahorses, this was in July or August.
linda
You won it
Gary
GHorn82707
George R Horn
GHorn82707
Black and myself. You have done so and I want to thank you. I made the
mistake, we should have kept counting, they were there we just found more
interesting stuff to look at. My problem with Black is he can't admit he was
wrong, he has a closed mind.
GHorn82707
Scott
Black lost the bet, by calling George a liar, and by running his suck about
a site he has never dove.
As far as the bet goes, George is making his donation, because he is a stand
up gentleman. Black is welching out, because that's the kind of jerk he is.
It really doesn't matter if Black doesn't get it (nothing new), what matters
is that a bunch of people got together and had a good time, there are more
than all the seahorses Black has ever seen in Jamaica harbor.
George is a winner no matter how many seahorses. The fact that there were
*any* is simply another brilliant illumination of Blacks condescending
ignorance.
Scott
"Icarus (Dennis)" <nojun...@ever.invalid> wrote in message
news:TBkv5.4741$%p2.2...@newsread03.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
mjbl...@my-deja.com
one or two hundred is. How many more times before you get it? MJB
In article <MBkv5.4738$%p2.2...@newsread03.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
kat_...@my-deja.com
Despite all the proof that Black has provided to confirm that his
ego/arrogance will not let him.....you still held out hope that he would
do the right thing. You have a very big heart. I am just sorry I am
too far away to have joined you (Texas).
Kathy
In article <20000912091148...@ng-df1.aol.com>,
kat_...@my-deja.com
Despite all the proof that Black has provided to confirm that his
ego/arrogance will not let him.....you still held out hope that he would
do the right thing. You have a very big heart. I am just sorry I am
too far away to have joined you (Texas).
Kathy
In article <20000912091148...@ng-df1.aol.com>,
ghorn...@aol.com (GHorn82707) wrote:
GHorn82707
argument. You are the one that is absurd, we stopped counting or is that
something your feeble little mind can't comprehend. Maybe I ought to go back
in the water as someone suggested and do a recount. What the hell would you
say to that. Have an argument with it, give us a very good logical one. One
with sentient points and reasons that it should not be done. Hey remember this
statement you made in your Aug 9th post: "Fish story or real, I even read a
Peter Bennett editorial in Alert Diver referring to these supposed downcurrents
in Cozumel, and have a hard time believing even him". Did you write that or
not, this is where the whole thing started, remember? You are not a very well
liked person and it is your own fault. You can't admit when you are wrong.
You are extremely petty. My apologies to your dive club, I can respect their
ideals, it's a shame they have a member of you caliber. You have been hung by
your own posts and now you are the one squirming under the light of the words
you posted. The offer still stands come to NY, they are still in the water,
you can still see for yourself, or is that too logical.
>> Am I wrong, or dd you not think seeing morte than one or two was
>'absurd'
>> except by a select few divers living in localized area, neither of
>which
>> applied to George Horn or the NY area?
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>> <mjbl...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>news:8pjmec$h3m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>> > See Lee Bell's post for a well-considered answer. The bet was
>> > specific, 200 or more seahorses counted, yes or no. We have
>> > an occasional piranha show up in Wisconsin rivers, but I would
>> > never claim "hundreds." Although I am surprised to hear about
>tropical
>> > species as far north as NY, George's claim about seeing hundreds
>> > of seahorses was and still is absurd. My next question: Is this
>> > species of Hippocampus the same as the Caribbean, and if this
>> > is a Gulfstream phenomenon, how far north are they found. MJB
George R Horn
Ross Bagley
Bob Crownfield <Crown...@Home.com> wrote:
>Firewalker wrote:
>>
>> George,
>>
>> Sounds like you all had a hell of a time! Good people and good diving
>> are a nice mix. I have to add my hat to the pile of the "Damn I Missed It".
>>
>> As far as the letter of the bet/law goes, I guess Dr. Mojo wins.
[...snip Firewalker's explanation...]
[...snip Bob's donkey and sheep...]
Er, Bob, please go back and read Firewalker's post again. He gave
black the technical "win" of the bet, but still verbally bitch slapped
black up and down the newsgroup.
For the record, I disagree with Firewalker. If black had gone along,
I'm certain that a) the dive would have been a lot less fun, and b)
sufficient seahorses would have been counted to satisfy any bet.
Since black didn't even bother to show up and the diver's who did
decided to stop counting at some point in the dive, black forfeited
his bet before everyone else got in the water.
Regards,
Ross
-- Ross Bagley & Associates http://rossbagley.com/rba
"We don't just write software, we help you write software better!"
OldSalt
since I have Supernews, it's amazing that I could even see it:
<snipping some>
> My next question: Is this
>species of Hippocampus the same as the Caribbean, and if this
>is a Gulfstream phenomenon, how far north are they found. MJB
Dr Black... please see my thread called " NY seahorses - THE BET"
I think that we would have seen more of them had we not set out this
late in the season and had there not been an usual cold spell for the
week before we went diving. You can comfirm this cold spell by
looking at the weather reports. I am not making this up in order to
support George. The kind of seahorse that we saw was very similar to
the ones I have seen in Bonaire but I don't know the official name.
They were large and brown... perhaps 6 inches long. There were no
babies to be seen.
Iain Smith
was ever a specified and agreed term of the wager.
Moral victory for Horn, winning the spirit of the bet, if not it's precise
detail, and showing himself to be a good sport regardless.
Iain
GHorn82707
the NG. Black is too small not only in stature but in character. He knows the
seahorses exist, he just can't act like a man, or woman for that matter. All
of us can accept the fact that we make mistakes and admit our faults. I am
afraid that he does not know what the right thing is. If yoou ever come to NY
give me a call it will be my pleasure to show the them.
>George,
>
>Despite all the proof that Black has provided to confirm that his
>ego/arrogance will not let him.....you still held out hope that he would
>do the right thing. You have a very big heart. I am just sorry I am
>too far away to have joined you (Texas).
>
>Kathy
Bob Crownfield
>
> You are wrong. Seeing one or two seahorses is not absurd, seeing
> one or two hundred is. How many more times before you get it? MJB
We all got it long ago you worthless asshole.
you are the weasle alone in the pond without a clue.
>
> In article <MBkv5.4738$%p2.2...@newsread03.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> "Icarus (Dennis)" <nojun...@ever.invalid> wrote:
> > Am I wrong, or dd you not think seeing morte than one or two was
> 'absurd'
> > except by a select few divers living in localized area, neither of
> which
> > applied to George Horn or the NY area?
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > <mjbl...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8pjmec$h3m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > > See Lee Bell's post for a well-considered answer. The bet was
> > > specific, 200 or more seahorses counted, yes or no. We have
> > > an occasional piranha show up in Wisconsin rivers, but I would
> > > never claim "hundreds." Although I am surprised to hear about
> tropical
> > > species as far north as NY, George's claim about seeing hundreds
> > > of seahorses was and still is absurd. My next question: Is this
> > > species of Hippocampus the same as the Caribbean, and if this
> > > is a Gulfstream phenomenon, how far north are they found. MJB
> > >
> > <snip>
> >
> >
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
--
Bob Crownfield, Crown...@Home.com
Photography, Flying, Delphi Rad Addict
Now diving the Pacific in the LA Area.
"Protect freedoms before they become extinct."
CPR86
>Black lost the bet, by calling George a liar, and by running his suck about
>a site he has never dove.
How would you know what black said???? <bg>
CPR86
>If you take it to the letter of the *law* then Dr. Black is correct you
>did
>not count the amount of seahorses that was stated in the bet.
If you take the letter of the law , Black was supposed to be there.
Rod Childs
I believe you won the bet, you won the altercation, and yoyu
won the best of class award. I only regret that I was unable to join
the dive. I think it would be a nice touch if you told us (the
observers) how we also could contribute to the Dr Death fund at DAN, I
think it would be fun if the dumb fuck had to explain to his (does he
own it, or is he their equipment boy) dive club how they got made
platnum for life.
Rod Childs
going to die anyway as the water gets colder, get a net, dip a couple
hundred up, and mail them (third class of course) to Dr. Death
Popeye
>routing? Or from his head. Whichever.
>
>Dennis
>
Or the taughtness of his sphincter, perhaps?
Nydivecon
If you take it to the "letter of the law" wagering is illegal outside of a
state approved gaming or paramutiel system so you cant form a binding contract
for an illegal act.
However, I believed all along that the Seahorses were real, and I think George
won fair and square.
Firewalker
continue to chant, "A bet's a bet".
You can lead some people to Seahorses, but you can't make them think. I
almost feel sorry for him. Almost.
Firewalker
"H NED Huntzinger" <{rm_to_reply}hum...@webspan.net> wrote in message
news:39BF64...@webspan.net...
> mjbl...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > See Lee Bell's post for a well-considered answer. The bet was
> > specific, 200 or more seahorses counted, yes or no.
>
>
> Perhaps you should re-read that and take your own advice: there were
> many *proposals*, but exactly what was agreed upon by whom and in what
> sequence was not ever completely clear. For example, Dobie's research
> highlights George's first proposed bet of $20/head.
>
>
> Now here's two productive ways to interpret these proposals
> collectively:
>
> a) Decide on an honorable course of action by admitting that George
> proved his point that there's more than just a few seahorses by matching
> his $200 donation to DAN with your own $200 donation to Breast Cancer
> Research.
>
> b) Admit that you implicitly accepted George's $20/head offer prior to
> you offering of a _second_ bet for "$200 for 200, no babies". George
> is already paying off the second bet...we're waiting for you to announce
> that you're sending $1200 to Breast Cancer Research to honorably pay
> off the first.
>
>
> Insofar as _how_ the payments were to be made, there were no clear
> requirements. Therefore, to now demand that George send his check in
> through your dive club is neither necessary nor appropriate.
>
>
>
> > We have an occasional piranha show up in Wisconsin rivers, but I would
> > never claim "hundreds."
>
> If we look back at who said what, when "hundreds" of seahorses were
> referred to, it did admittedly include babies. I've already opinioned
> that this original statement was an obvious example literary hyperbola,
> which is a well known and accepted part of our langage.
>
> I've also already said to you, Black, that your "$200 for 200, no
> babies" intepretation and requirement was unsporting. Personally, I
> would have refused such a bet. It was upon this "stacking of the deck"
> that became the instant in time that you forfeited the moral victory to
> George, regardless of the outcome of any dive.
>
>
> FWIW, I don't blame George at all for making a decent effort, but then
> choose to go have fun instead. Afterall, they knew going in that they
> were working against a stacked deck, they understood that the original
> premise was proven and most of all, they understood that we dive for
> fun.
>
>
>
> > Although I am surprised to hear about tropical species as far north as
NY...
>
> Want to make a bet about the presence of tropicals up in RI or MA? <g>
>
>
> > George's claim about seeing hundreds of seahorses was and still is
absurd.
>
> Not within the original context and not when you understand the science.
>
>
> > My next question: Is this
> > species of Hippocampus the same as the Caribbean, and if this
> > is a Gulfstream phenomenon, how far north are they found.
>
> Glad your finally asking about the science. The answer to this should
> be quite obvious by now.
>
>
> [from a later posting]:
>
> > ...Seeing one or two seahorses is not absurd, seeing
> > one or two hundred is. How many more times before you get it? MJB
>
> If all your life you've only ever seen 1 or 2 seahorses per dive and a
> score for a lifetime, how many do you have to see on a single dive until
> you go "WOW"?
>
> I'd bet you'd say "WOW" if you saw 99.
> I'd bet you'd say "WOW" if you saw 89.
> Heck, I would say "WOW" if I saw only a dozen. YMMV.
> At least admit that you've learned something and move on.
>
> Quite frankly, all you've done is reenforce your already poor
> reputation.
>
>
>
> -hh
GHorn82707
George R Horn
Chuck Tribolet
individuals is legal (the friendly game of poker) but it's illegal to have
the house take a cut, or sell drinks or food. Arizona used to be
one of these, dunno if it still is.
But this was interstate, so it was FEDERAL. Jammer, call the FBI.
--
Chuck Tribolet
tri...@garlic.com
http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/triblet
Silicon Valley: Best day job in the world.
"Nydivecon" <nydi...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20000913155006...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
> >If you take the letter of the law , Black was supposed to be there.
>
GHorn82707
thing about Dr. Black, he has been the motivation behind a lot of peoples
donations to both causes. Some have even donated to both. I really feel sorry
for him, most of the posts have knocked him. If he acts the way in real life
as he does on this NG he must be a very lonely person.
bonnage
Someone said you were a gentleman, and I not knowing youmust agree. It is
not often on this ng that anyone is civil to another person who holds a
slightly different view point. I have also been there with the big C my ex.
beat it in 1978 and is still in good health.
Regards.
Richard
GHorn82707 <ghorn...@aol.com> wrote in article
<20000912091148...@ng-df1.aol.com>...
Adrian
The family of Syngnathidae, (Seahorses and Pipefish), are not strictly
tropical creatures. There are several species of Sea Horses whose range is
the upper eastern Atlantic and the Med. Hippocampus hippocampus is commonly
found as far north as the English Channel and has been regularly found in
the North Sea. That is about a full 10 degrees of latitude further north
than NYC.
H. erectus ranges from Argentina up to Massachusetts so it is not simply a
Gulf Stream phenomena.
IMNSHO..... You first questioned the existence of these creatures that far
north. You were _way_ wrong and spoke out of ignorance without researching.
You then questioned their numbers. If you wish to act like a lawyer you can,
(and obviously are), holding George to a specific number. But to find sixty
of the 'ponies' in less than one dive again shows you that there are
significantly more specimens than you would believe. Since you were the
initial challenger, from a position of ignorance I might add, and both your
initial claims, (species that far north and numbers in that region), have
been disproven I think you should try to show a little class. George has
shown oodles of it..... Your turn!!!
--
Adrian
www.neptunesjewels.com
The Portal to all things 'fishy'
<mjbl...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8pjmec$h3m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> See Lee Bell's post for a well-considered answer. The bet was
> specific, 200 or more seahorses counted, yes or no. We have
> an occasional piranha show up in Wisconsin rivers, but I would
> never claim "hundreds." Although I am surprised to hear about tropical
> species as far north as NY, George's claim about seeing hundreds
> of seahorses was and still is absurd. My next question: Is this
> species of Hippocampus the same as the Caribbean, and if this
> is a Gulfstream phenomenon, how far north are they found. MJB
>
> In article <39bd...@usenet.ugsolutions.com>,
> "DennisW" <nojun...@ever.invalid> wrote:
> > Further, it does prove that:
> > a) George is one of the few divers who can see more than one or two
> and
> > b) the area that they dove was a localized area.
> >
> > This matches Dr Black's assertion that
> > "there may be a few divers who can see more in a localized area"......
> >
> > Face it, even with a count of 60, Black was still proven wrong -
> there are
> > sea horses in the NY area (evidently brought up by the Gulf steam,
> from what
> > another poster said).
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > "Trace Malinowski" <trace...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20000911171206...@ng-cd1.aol.com...
> > > I think that through a contribution to DAN we all win.
> > >
> > > But, here's my take on the bet. I'd have to agree that Firewalker
> is right
> > that
> > > if the bet were similar to betting number of push-ups, on that day,
> George
> > > would have lost by his team's admission of their count. However, the
> > problem is
> > > that it doesn't sound like the search was done as scientifically and
> > > methodically as possible and so sea horses could have been counted
> twice
> > and
> > > others not counted at all. (It took me a few minutes to spot one my
> buddy
> > had
> > > found in St. Lucia looking right at it.)
> > >
> > > Next, was a precise area agreed upon? Like there had to be 200
> seahorses
> > in a
> > > 50 yard by 50 yard range or something like that? I'm a swimmer in
> the
> > water. I
> > > like to go off and look for stuff and not spend all day looking at
> pretty
> > blue
> > > fish in a small area. Therefore, had I been there buddied with
> another
> > swimmer,
> > > and if we had been able to see every seahorse in our coverage zone,
> how
> > many
> > > might we have counted if we swam 1 mile?
> > >
> > > When George mentioned being able to see hundreds, I assumed when he
> made
> > that
> > > statement, that a charter boat sized group of divers covering a
> large
> > range
> > > would be able to count hundreds. Yet, this small group counted more
> than
> > 60
> > > seahorses. Dr. Black said he's never seen more than 1 or 2 at a
> time in
> > his 24
> > > year diving career. Nor have I seen more than 1 or 2 in 17 or 18
> years of
> > SCUBA
> > > diving. 60 freakin seahorses??? WOW!!! I think George proved that
> there
> > are
> > > LOTS of them in New York City -- alive even!
> > >
> > > Now, had both parties agreed to a precise distance, number of
> divers in
> > the
> > > area, method of counting, documentation, etc., there wouldn't be so
> much
> > gray
> > > area.
> > >
> > > If George had exaggerated at all when he made the initial statement
> > defending
> > > that there are lots of seahorses in NYC, that is to be expected.
> George is
> > > American, we exaggerate to make a point. If George were English, he
> > probably
> > > would have said that he could find a bloody good few of the
> buggers, in
> > which
> > > case 60+ is definitely beyond a bloody good few.
> > >
> > > Since the thing started with one guy basically doubting that there
> were
> > more
> > > than a few if any seahorses, and another guy defending there are
> lots of
> > them,
> > > I think that the way George intends to pay is just. DAN gets its
> money.
> > George
> > > pays $200 for failing to make a full and accurate count. (Popeye can
> > count? :-)
> > > And, Dr. Black gets the satisfaction of not having to pay $200 to
> DAN.
> > >
> > > I think the point was to prove more seahorses than imagineable in
> NYC and
> > 60+
> > > seahorses on this dive surely says something.
> > >
> > > A rematch might be a good idea next year whenever George thinks the
> water
> > > conditions are ripe for a count. In fact, that might be worth some
> city
> > funding
> > > to such a count.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sir Malinowski, Knight of Black Wetsuit, Prince of Free Divers,
> > > Champion of the Lady of the Lake, Lord and Keeper of The Malinowski
> > > Principle.
> > > http://hometown.aol.com/tracemalin/
H NED Huntzinger
>
> See Lee Bell's post for a well-considered answer. The bet was
> specific, 200 or more seahorses counted, yes or no.
Perhaps you should re-read that and take your own advice: there were
many *proposals*, but exactly what was agreed upon by whom and in what
sequence was not ever completely clear. For example, Dobie's research
highlights George's first proposed bet of $20/head.
Now here's two productive ways to interpret these proposals
collectively:
a) Decide on an honorable course of action by admitting that George
proved his point that there's more than just a few seahorses by matching
his $200 donation to DAN with your own $200 donation to Breast Cancer
Research.
b) Admit that you implicitly accepted George's $20/head offer prior to
you offering of a _second_ bet for "$200 for 200, no babies". George
is already paying off the second bet...we're waiting for you to announce
that you're sending $1200 to Breast Cancer Research to honorably pay
off the first.
Insofar as _how_ the payments were to be made, there were no clear
requirements. Therefore, to now demand that George send his check in
through your dive club is neither necessary nor appropriate.
> We have an occasional piranha show up in Wisconsin rivers, but I would
> never claim "hundreds."
If we look back at who said what, when "hundreds" of seahorses were
referred to, it did admittedly include babies. I've already opinioned
that this original statement was an obvious example literary hyperbola,
which is a well known and accepted part of our langage.
I've also already said to you, Black, that your "$200 for 200, no
babies" intepretation and requirement was unsporting. Personally, I
would have refused such a bet. It was upon this "stacking of the deck"
that became the instant in time that you forfeited the moral victory to
George, regardless of the outcome of any dive.
FWIW, I don't blame George at all for making a decent effort, but then
choose to go have fun instead. Afterall, they knew going in that they
were working against a stacked deck, they understood that the original
premise was proven and most of all, they understood that we dive for
fun.
> Although I am surprised to hear about tropical species as far north as NY...
Want to make a bet about the presence of tropicals up in RI or MA? <g>
> George's claim about seeing hundreds of seahorses was and still is absurd.
Not within the original context and not when you understand the science.
> My next question: Is this
> species of Hippocampus the same as the Caribbean, and if this
> is a Gulfstream phenomenon, how far north are they found.
Glad your finally asking about the science. The answer to this should
GHorn82707
for the compliment, there are many times when I also act the fool.
George R Horn
Icarus (Dennis)
The question was NOT whether seeing more than one or two was 'absurd' or
not. And yes, you did say that 'seeing hundreds is absurd'
So what about seeing several? a couple dozen? Heck, you said that just show
a photo of three in the same field would make you happy.
Of course, you did say that they are rarely seen critters, and that 'your
claim is quite unbelievable to those of us who are lucky to see one or two
as often as we dive'. :-)
So I guess the NY seahorse divers had an extraordinary run of luck then, in
order to see 60?
Dennis
<mjbl...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8pld37$fdc$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Icarus (Dennis)
You're welcome - glad you enjoyed it :-)
Dennis
GHorn82707 <ghorn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000912090307...@ng-df1.aol.com...
> Dennis, thanks for the laugh.>Ladies and Gentlemen of this supposed Jury,
GHorn82707
George R Horn
NIPONSCUBA
The bet was for you to show Black they were there, he didn't show. You win ,
not just the bet, but obviously the respect of others.
You continue to demonstrate that you are the classiest human being I know.
Sorry I missed the dive and lunch at Lenny's. yummmmmm
See you at the pool.
Liz
GHorn82707
what was posted.
>mjbl...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>
>> See Lee Bell's post for a well-considered answer. The bet was
>> specific, 200 or more seahorses counted, yes or no.
He can't even understand the post Lee made.
>
>Perhaps you should re-read that and take your own advice: there were
>many *proposals*, but exactly what was agreed upon by whom and in what
>sequence was not ever completely clear. For example, Dobie's research
>highlights George's first proposed bet of $20/head.
>
>
>Now here's two productive ways to interpret these proposals
>collectively:
>
>a) Decide on an honorable course of action by admitting that George
>proved his point that there's more than just a few seahorses by matching
>his $200 donation to DAN with your own $200 donation to Breast Cancer
>Research.
Honor is something Black totally lacks
>b) Admit that you implicitly accepted George's $20/head offer prior to
>you offering of a _second_ bet for "$200 for 200, no babies". George
>is already paying off the second bet...we're waiting for you to announce
>that you're sending $1200 to Breast Cancer Research to honorably pay
>off the first.
He has not the slightest idea of what your are trying to point out to him. I
am having the hardest time figuring out how he became an Eye doctor.
>Insofar as _how_ the payments were to be made, there were no clear
>requirements. Therefore, to now demand that George send his check in
>through your dive club is neither necessary nor appropriate.
That was not a part of the bet just a charity.
>
>> We have an occasional piranha show up in Wisconsin rivers, but I would
>> never claim "hundreds."
>
>If we look back at who said what, when "hundreds" of seahorses were
>referred to, it did admittedly include babies. I've already opinioned
>that this original statement was an obvious example literary hyperbola,
>which is a well known and accepted part of our langage.
HH, it was not literary hyperbola. I have seen two hundred seahorses and this
moron can say anything he wants. He is a lowlife of the first order, no honor,
has not even acknowledged that the money was paid.
>
>I've also already said to you, Black, that your "$200 for 200, no
>babies" intepretation and requirement was unsporting. Personally, I
>would have refused such a bet. It was upon this "stacking of the deck"
>that became the instant in time that you forfeited the moral victory to
>George, regardless of the outcome of any dive.
>
>
>FWIW, I don't blame George at all for making a decent effort, but then
>choose to go have fun instead. Afterall, they knew going in that they
>were working against a stacked deck, they understood that the original
>premise was proven and most of all, they understood that we dive for
>fun.
Again HH, I can not say it many more times, we gave him the victory because we
stopped to enjoy ourselves because the dive was so beautiful.
>> Although I am surprised to hear about tropical species as far north as
>NY...
>
>Want to make a bet about the presence of tropicals up in RI or MA? <g>
>
>
>> George's claim about seeing hundreds of seahorses was and still is absurd.
This moron will never learn, he mentions Paul and others, I would love to have
him ask any of the experts if they think it is possible? He would never give a
truthful answer.
>
>Not within the original context and not when you understand the science.
>
>
>> My next question: Is this
>> species of Hippocampus the same as the Caribbean, and if this
>> is a Gulfstream phenomenon, how far north are they found.
>
>Glad your finally asking about the science. The answer to this should
>be quite obvious by now.
>
>
>[from a later posting]:
>
>> ...Seeing one or two seahorses is not absurd, seeing
>> one or two hundred is. How many more times before you get it? MJB
>
>If all your life you've only ever seen 1 or 2 seahorses per dive and a
>score for a lifetime, how many do you have to see on a single dive until
>you go "WOW"?
>
>I'd bet you'd say "WOW" if you saw 99.
>I'd bet you'd say "WOW" if you saw 89.
>Heck, I would say "WOW" if I saw only a dozen. YMMV.
>At least admit that you've learned something and move on.
He can't do that, it would mean that he doesn't know it all.
>Quite frankly, all you've done is reenforce your already poor
>reputation.
Yeah, he wants to win an unpopularity contest, what a loser.