Greedy B$A Boy Scouts of America takes tax exemptions from America including: Girls, Gays, and Godless, but denies them membership
scout
including: Girls, Gays, and Godless, but denies them membership
After watching that 60 Minutes report Sunday, it reminds me how much
of a weasel organization the B$A really is. Gutless cowards when
explaining themselves to the American people without Neil Diamond
singing their tune. What MORE are they hiding?
How is it that the Girl Scouts of America can function without being
jerks like the B$A?
Why is it that in the USA, Scouting is split into Girls and Boys?
Why is the B$A so high and moral to exclude Girls, Gays, and the
Godless, yet greedy to take a tax exemption from us all, including
those three groups? Do you get a merit bad for hypocrisy?!
If this were 100 years ago, B$A would probably set up a Black Scouts.
But there are laws against that discrimination.
If the B$A wishes to discriminate against Americans, let them do it on
their own moral dime, not mine or yours.
Pay your taxes, B$A, and discriminate all you want. Even a church is
tax exempt but everyone is allowed to enter to worship. You make
hundreds of millions every year, get lots of property, lots of
donations, lots of life estates.
Check out their public statement on file on the Internet.
I guess God can teach Girls, Gays, and the Godless something the B$A
can't! LOL!
How many millions do you take in every year, in the news.
How many lies do you tell about membership numbers, in the news. It's
all about the money for these B$A executives's isn't it. How they get
their bonus?
What can you expect from an organization that breaks its arms patting
itself on its back all the time. You would think they invented
morality.
Time to yank that Congressional Charter.
Learning for Life is a joke. An excuse to make members feel second
class because they can't cut it as a Boy $cout.
The only reason the B$A discriminates is because it is afraid of
losing its big corporate sponsors and fat wallet contributors.
It is all about the money with the B$A.
B$A is a big business selling its monopoly on uniforms, equipment,
retreats. Big business. Kids are just the baggage they handle.
That's why they shield child molesters from publicity. Bad for
profits.
Too bad they don't practice what they $ell!
B$A: Woman-hating, Homophobic, Polytheistic gods-worshipping. This is
what they teach young boys. This prepares them to be little fascists,
ready to discriminate when they become adults.
You see how they turn their back on a family when their son is
discriminates: "Oh, we are with National, we don't own the local
councils."
Gutless cowards: The Girl Scouts at least owns its entire
organization.
Boy $couts is just a franchise like McDonald's.
becky thacker
we lived on an Air Force base in Florida, and there was a very large (yes,
tax-supported) Boy Scout camp on the base, practically in my back yard.
Many many acres of woods, right on the waterfront, with a full-time
live-in caretaker. Though a girl, I spent a lot of my time there when the
summer camps weren't in session. Two weeks each year I was warned not to
go over there, because "that's when the colored troops have their campouts
there". (I suppose a white girl was considered at greater risk of
assault? Pah.)
Sooo, the folks of color who had to pay the same taxes as anyone else, had
to arrange for their kids to join special troops that could go to camp
during that limited period of time. Sounds quite a bit like the gay folks
who now pay the same taxes as anyone else, supporting the scout troops
that often get free use of schools and other public facilities.
Sure, I agree, the BSA, like the KKK, has a perfect right to associate
with whomever they choose. But not a penny of tax money (which gay and
straight alike must pay) should go to support them. I think there was
some business about tea in a harbor about this sort of thing.
-bt in Indy-
Jeff Vondruska
to females up to age 21. (If you would have checked the Press Release file,
you would have seen that the 1999 Tournament of Roses Queen was a Venture
Scout) And with all of your defense of the Girl Scouts, you show me where
males are allowed in the Girl Scouts. To quote the GSUSA website, "We are
the world's largest organization for girls - just for girls." (I'm not
putting down the Girl Scouts, I'm just making a point)
How does the BSA teach boys polytheism? Do you even know the meaning of the
word? How do we "shield child molesters from publicity"? I read that "public
statement file", and all I see is a few paragraphs that say that the United
States Supreme Court upholds the BSA's right to set its own membership
policy. Is that such a bad thing?
And you also say that the BSA has a "monopoly on uniforms, equipment,
retreats." I could use the same argument about any number of other
organizations. If you can come up with examples of all of your claims (which
I seriously doubt), then someone might actually listen to you. But until
that happens, kindly keep your slander of the Boy Scouts of America to
yourself.
--
Jeff Vondruska
ASM, Troop 101
Elyria, Ohio
Scout
http://nccs.urban.org/ at NC...@ui.urban.org Just request a user name
and password because you as a citizen, want to review the BSA public
finance documents.
On 02 Apr 2001 23:11:11 GMT, kyblk...@aol.com (settummanque or
blackeagle) wrote:
>Normally, I don't even reply to anyone who are weaseled enough NOT to provide a
>name. However, I'm in a good mood today...got an award from my military boss'
>boss today *yeh* and my eval report looks decent *yeh*....so:
>
>"Scout" wrote:
>
>>After watching that 60 Minutes report >Sunday, it reminds me how much
>>of a weasel organization the B$A really >is.
>
>Didn't your momma ever tell you what happens when you point your finger at
>someone?? Three are pointing right BACK at you!!
Then who are you pointing at?
>>Gutless cowards when explaining >themselves to the American people >without
>Neil Diamond singing their tune.
>
>Have news for you, buddy...the BSA doesn't have to "explain themselves" to
>anyone but their membership...and I think that those four Scouters from Florida
>kinda summed up what the BSA's points are.
Except that they have to continually "explain" themselves in lawsuits.
Last time before the Supreme Court, it was a 5/4 opinion. Next time,
who knows?
>>How is it that the Girl Scouts of America >can function without being jerks
>like the >B$A?
>
>Interesting question. Nobody from the Girl Scouts of the USA was interviewed
>for the story. The Executive Director (equal to our Chief Scout Executive)
>probably "didn't have time to be interviewed either" (if I had ANY critizism
>from the story, it was the BSA's national PR firm issuing a STUPID statement as
>"he's too busy promoting character development...." Come on, tell us the truth:
>he was advised NOT to come on camera. They should have just said that and
>gotten over it...)
That's because the Girl Scouts Of America is not a Hate organization.
>To answer your question: the Girl Scouts of the USA doesn't have:
>
>*acres and acres of camping land
>*four national outdoor adventure bases
>*a quadiannual Scout Jamboree
>*and a 2000-person professional management team working from the field to the
>national offices.
>
>In short, the Girl Scouts of the USA are SMALLER, with LESS RESOURCES, and with
>A LOT LESS TO LOSE should things "turn south" for them.
>
>The BSA, on the other hand, is LARGER, with MORE RESOURCES (nationally,
>regionally, locally) and WITH A WHOLE LOT TO LOSE should they make the wrong
>step too early, too late, or not at all.
So "Might Makes Right," is what you are saying. The "Big assets"
matter more than the welfare of the boys who want to be scouts.
Thanks for explaining how the B$A sold out.
>>Why is it that in the USA, Scouting is >split into Girls and Boys?
>
>It isn't. The BSA has girls -- young females -- in it's Venturing program.
>Females account for (the BSA's figures) 27 percent of ALL adult volunteers and
>39 percent of ALL professional employees (1998 figures, the last ones I have
>access to).
>
>Oh, you want to blame someone?? Okay. Blame Jullette Low for bringing Girl
>Guides to the USA and blame a group of individuals, led by William D. Boyce,
>for bringing the BSA to the States.
>
>When both organizations were incorporated, unlike other countries, there were
>separate Boy and Girl Scouting organizations. Over the years, there has been a
>great deal of cooperation between the two national organizations and at one
>time (the early 70s) there were discussions within both organizations to merge.
> The Girl Scouts called it off, because they didn't want to lose the way that
>they charter units (they don't) and they don't want to lose what few camping
>facilities they did have to the BSA.
Quit mumbling. We know there IS a separate Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts
in the USA. We know both have programs for opposite sexes. The BSA
just has the second-class Learning for Life. Period. The question
is: why does training girls and boys together in scouting work in the
rest of the world except in the USA? Because the BSA keeps saying it
promotes the unique development of the boy. BS, like that does not
happen in the rest of the world. They are liars.
>>Why is the B$A so high and moral to >exclude Girls, Gays, and the
>>Godless, yet greedy to take a tax >exemption from us all, including
>>those three groups? Do you get a merit >bad for hypocrisy?!
>
>Let's get a couple things straight, "Scout". First, the BSA doesn't take a tax
>exemption from us...WE, the tax payers, are ALLOWED to take exemptions for
>things we do for Scouting (both Boy and Girl Scouting) and for things purchased
>by Scouts (like tickets and popcorn and cookies). So, if you don't want any of
>your tax money going to Scouting, don't spend it on Scouting.
BSA does not take a tax exemption? How much sales tax do they pay on
things they buy? How much do they pay in income tax? That is not a
tax exemption? Check the internet for their public statement before
you look even more foolish than you do now.
Accepting a tax exemption, then denying participation to some of those
who subsidize you IS taxation without representation. And these kids
are waiting.
>Second, the BSA like every other organization, has to file paperwork with the
>IRS. You have a problem with the BSA's paperwork? Then take it up with the
>IRS...I'm sure that they will be happy to talk with you (after, of course,
>making sure that you've paid your taxes to THEM for the last few
>years...*smiling*)
Check those public records to see how much in TAXES, TAXES, TAXES they
pay versus their income. Public records verify that.
>>If this were 100 years ago, B$A would >probably set up a Black Scouts.
>>But there are laws against that >discrimination.
>
>It didn't stop BSA local Councils, "Scout". In the early days of the BSA, there
>*were* "shadow Councils" organized to serve not just Black Scouts, but also
>Catholics, Jews, and for a short period of time, LDS Scouts. Back in those
>days, there were laws ALLOWING discrimination. You're showing your age....you
>don't remember as I do not being able to camp at some camps in Southern states
>and in other camps, having to camp at the "black campsite" (which of course,
>had poor or no water, leaky toilets if one at all and generally the furthest
>away from all of the facilities...except for the rifle and archery ranges!).
>
>The BSA, as a corporate body, HAS come a long way since those days (and STILL
>has some way to go, in *my opinion*).
It sounds like you are black. So that when you wanted to be a Scout,
the BSA said you had a problem, you were black. Now, the BSA pets you
on the head and says it is OK to be black. And you are FINE with it?
Now, the BSA says that the Girls, Gays, and the Godless have a
problem. The BSA morality allows them to discriminate against
minorities, but they kiss the backside of the Big Dollar contributors.
Why don't they give merit badges for kissing butt?
>>If the B$A wishes to discriminate against >Americans, let them do it on
>>their own moral dime, not mine or yours.
>
>But the BSA isn't "discriminating" against Americans, but rather they are
>"defining who can serve as a volunteer in our organization" and who cannot.
>Period. If the BSA had a rule which stated "only white citizens of good moral
>character" can serve as volunteers, then I would have to find another
>organization to be a part of.
>Look, what the BSA is doing is no different than what churches do...you set up
>your parameters, and those who meet the standard get to become part of that
>church.
That is a ridiculous statement. If churches only admitted people
already converted to their faith, they would soon die out. Churches
are open to everyone to be converted to their faith. Otherwise they
are preaching to the choir, just like the BSA is. What example are
the BSA for the excluded Girls, Gays, and Godless, except as snobs,
taking tax breaks, patting themselves on the back for inventing
morality? The Excluded are like the poor people peeking in country
club gates.
I could even understand if the BSA wanted to deny professional status
to adults who did not meet criteria. After all, a Baptist church
should not be expected to employ a Muslim priest.
But to deny children participation in a program is stupid. They
qualify for a children's program because they are children. Children
will not set policy. Children will not dictate the operation of a
program. Children do not run a church, the church elders do. To deny
a child an experience because the BSA disagrees with their sex, with
their sexuality, with their religion (atheism) is fascist.
>And oh yeah, let's not forget that CHURCHES and SYNAGOGUES do indeed receive
>what some folks pleasently call "taxpayer assistance" to carry out their
>faith's work to their community. They cannot use it on religion...but they can
>use it toward programs which brings people INTO the church (child care, feeding
>programs, afterschool latchkey programs...)
Either we are a nation under God or all men are created equal. It is
unfair to subsidize your religion if we have a separation of church
and state. What about mine? Excluding them all treats them all
equally.
>>Pay your taxes, B$A, and discriminate all >you want. Even a church is tax
>exempt >but everyone is allowed to enter to >worship.
>
>Hey...we don't charge ANYTHING for people to visit:
>
>*unit meetings
>*district/council meetings and activities
>*regional events
>*the National Scout Jamboree
>
>and just about anything else in between those things....just like churches. WE
>WANT YOU TO SEE WHAT WE ARE DOING!!
>
>But like churches, we do restrict our program and working meetings to those
>individuals whom are *members*. We charge a membership fee. We charge
>participants for attendance at camps and activities. We charge participants
>for attendance at Philmont, Sea Base, and even the Jamboree every four years.
>
>Just like religious-based organizations do.
Yeah, reminds me of golf member associations denying Jews and Blacks
memberships, too. Their only crime was being themselves. Then AND
today.
Any organization that says "only our kind can participate" is a hate
organization.
>And just like some religions (take your pick, I'm not partial....I'm a general
>Protestant), yeah, the BSA does own a lot of property, and we "make" a few
>million (not HUNDREDS, just a few....under 100).
>
>When someone gives to their church or to their community upon their death, or
>before then, do you complain that they are "giving their stuff away??"
>
>>I guess God can teach Girls, Gays, and >the Godless something the B$A can't!
>>LOL!
>
>I guess so. I guess that their Savior (oh, I forgot...Godless people don't have
>saviors...*smiling*) can teach them simple things like what I was taught:
>"turning the other cheek", "doing things regardless of praise or reward, for
>the real reward would be in (heaven)", "love thy neighbor as they would
>themselves..." Those things are rooted into what Scouting does teach it's
>youth members.
>
>And no, one doesn't have to be a Scout to learn those lessons, "Scout". One
>doesn't have to pay our membership fees, they don't have to go camping with us.
> You know, (and this is going to show your and my age again), in the earlier
>days of American Scouting, most kids picked up the Handbook or borrowed it from
>their libraries, and learned how to be a Scout WITHOUT the benefit of a Troop,
>adults, and even the badges and insignia. What a time that was....THAT is why
>Scouting became so big-time...because its NOT about the uniforms, the adults,
>or the structure....its about the PROGRAM and the things found IN THE BOOK that
>a young man (or woman) can learn, do and teach others.
>
>>How many lies do you tell about >membership numbers, in the news.
>
>Oh, and Microsoft doesn't lie about how many millions of Windows(tm) it sells.
>
>Coke doesn't mislead about how many gallons of it's softdrinks it sells.
>
>The XFL doesn't mislead about how many people are attending their games (and
>watch it!! I happen to LOVE the XFL!)
>
>Corporations (and the BSA IS a corporate body, "Scout") don't have to tell us
>EVERYTHING. That's why they have annual reports, and "stockholders" whom they
>are responsible to (the BSA's "stockholders" are their national chartered
>partners).
Yes, they do have to tell us everything or lose their little
Congressional Charter. Unlike those other companies you mention, who
is the competitor engaging in espionage with the BSA? It is a
monopoly existing for the public good.
When they commit FRAUD by defrauding the United Way by getting funds
based on membership numbers, like in the latest BSA scandal, we see
the true motto of the BSA officers. "Always be prepared...to cheat."
>>It's all about the money for these B$A >executives's isn't it. How they get
>>their bonus?
>
>I can tell you how *I* received my one and only bonus as a Paraprofessional:
>PERFORMANCE OVER TIME. That's how professionals in the BSA are graded and how
>they receive bonuses. They have to perform. If you don't perform, you are
>ineffective and asked to leave the profession. Even if you do perform, but not
>up to the BSA's regional or national standard, you are reassigned and given
>another chance in a smaller market, and then if you don't perform there, you
>are asked to leave...or you leave on your accord.
And if they can't perform, they inflate their number 66% like the
Circle 10 Council to steal that bonus. Every read the DFW papers?
>>Time to yank that Congressional Charter.
>
>Okay. If you feel that way.
Since they have the only one in existence, maybe it would send a
message.
>>Learning for Life is a joke. An excuse to >make members feel second class
>>because they can't cut it as a Boy $cout.
>
>As a registered Learning for Life volunteer, you have called *me* a "second
>class person". I resent you or anyone else even TRYING to call me "second
>class".
>I am also registered with a local Council of the BSA.
Resent it all you want. What are you crying about? At least you have
the opportunity to join the BSA. I am glad you don't weep for the
children denied membership in the prestigious Boy Scout program. Face
it. BSA created that LFL joke to fend off lawsuits. Period. And the
fact the many were leaving the BSA in protest did not hurt either.
Remember the segregationist compromise in the 1950's?
separate but equal. That is what the LFL is "separate but equal."
And it is neither.
That was the last compromise before discrimination was prohibited by
law. Watch LFL merge into BSA when the Supreme Court finally rules
against the BSA.
>Learning for Life isn't about "second class Scouts". It's about vocational and
>resource education -- stuff that the BSA couldn't do with their educational and
>community partners because of rules WE -- you and me -- made as CITIZENS.
>
>Rather than abandon entire groups of young people, the BSA found a way to get
>around what WE CITIZENS told them was important and to STILL PROVIDE A
>PROGRAM...a DIFFERENT PROGRAM than the "traditional program"; a refreshing
>program (as a Learning for Life participant, I don't have to worry about
>running home to get on a uniform, have to pester kids about "when are they
>going to earn Eagle" or Silver or the Arrow of Light, nor do I have to deal
>with the "politics of Scouting" except for the visit by our Learning for Life
>Unit Serving Executive once a quarter.
>
>The best thing I like about Learning for Life, "Scout", is that I don't have to
>"tiptoe" around "we're a part of the BSA"...BECAUSE WE'RE NOT!!
Fine, then abolish the BSA and give the LFL all the assets. Sounds
great.
>We're part of the Learning for Life Corporation.
And who owns that corporation? Who runs it?
Could it be...............................the BSA? How disingenuous
you are, with a dummy corporation. Check the public records.
>
>Just like with General Motors, the BSA sometimes DOES use our numbers in
>addition to their "traditional numbers". As Learning for Life continue to
>evolve, you will see that become less and less...does GM use Saturn's numbers
>when they talk about how many cars are being sold?? YOU BET!!! Saturn's their
>most POPULAR SEGMENT, next to GMC.
>
>But watch a Saturn commerical. Look really hard, "Scout". You won't a find a
>SINGLE, SOLITARY, GM logo, sticker, or even the letters "GM" ANYWHERE in the
>spot. But Saturn is a division of General Motors.
>
>Same with Learning for Life and the BSA.
So GM and Saturn are tax-exempt organizations, subsidized by the
Girls, the Gays, and the Godless? If not, your argument is pointless.
Just legal maneuvering to avoid responsibility.
>>The only reason the B$A discriminates is >because it is afraid of losing its
>big >corporate sponsors and fat wallet >contributors.
>
>No, "Scout". I think that former National Explorer President Chuck Wolfe
>stated it better...and I do agree with him.
>
>Chuck stated (paraphrasing) that the BSA is afraid of losing their national
>chartered partners over this.
>
>But I DISAGREE with Chuck that this would become "the end of the BSA". The BSA
>would simply pick up NEW chartered partners to take the place of those it would
>lose.
I read how easily Hitler turned the Boy Scouts of Germany into the
Hitler Youth. Same military uniform.
Well, maybe the Aryan brother hood, the Ku Klux Klan, and other hate
organizations would subsidize the BSA. Hey, if all scouts wore a
sheet, more room for BADGES. That's the ticket! LOL
>Okay. We lose the LDS Church. Big whoop. If we stress PROGRAMMING, like we
>should be doing, there will be OTHER churches (Church of God, African Methodist
>Epispthol (sp)) to take the LDS's place. Many Churches of God use the Royal
>Ranger program, and hey...the BSA's there....
>
>Okay. We lose Levi Strauss. Big whoop. They weren't making anything for the
>BSA anyway.
>
>The BSA has always been flexible when it came to chartered partners...always
>has and I feel it will always will be.
>
>So Chuck, let 'em walk.
>
>>It is all about the money with the B$A.
>
>Nope, "Scout", it's all about the PROGRAM with the BSA. And program is what
>costs money. Let's see you try to put on a program without it. A penny.
Too bad it is all about the PROGRAM and not the children of the USA.
>>B$A is a big business selling its >monopoly on uniforms, equipment,
>>retreats. Big business. Kids are just the >baggage they hand
>
>No. You're wrong. The BSA is corporation with resources to provide uniforms.
>I can purchase my uniforms from eBay, the local Sal Army store, a second-hand
>store, or from Johnny Miller who is no longer in Scouting. In all of those
>cases, not a cent of that money goes to the BSA.
Really, who is going to rise in the BSA, kids with uniforms and all
the equipment, or those who are poor and get shipped off to Learning
For Life?
>I can buy my equipment from any number of outfitters...REI, Gaylons, Outdoor
>Living, Coleman...even WalMart. Some of it will be crap. Some of it will be
>greater quality than what I could purchase from the BSA.
>But those firms won't allow me to ship it back if I find the quality stank.
>Too bad, so sad, call my dad. The BSA will take it back and replace it with
>equal or better stuff or give me money back.
>
>I don't have to attend Scout camps, or events in my Council....one of the
>greatest things about being a part of Scouting in America is that I can "drop
>in" on anyone else' camping or outdoor activity...as long as I call in advance
>and let them know I'm coming. Anywhere. In the world. As long as I "pay my
>own way", another one of those Scouting "things that are taught to us". I
>would rather attend Scouting activities because, hey...that's where people like
>myself ARE AT....
Too bad the LFL are second-class citizens and can't enjoy all the
money BSA had to support them with. The LFL is like the Girl Scouts,
underfunded, and illegitimate offspring of the BSA besides.
>>That's why they shield child molesters >from publicity. Bad for profits.
>
>No..*laughing*. If YOU were convicted of child molestation, would YOU want to
>have your face shown on TV and your name be posted in the local paper FOR DAYS
>and maybe FOR WEEKS? I pray that I NEVER have to endure what some people did
>have to do before the BSA got smart!
Face it, BSA hides child molesters professionals like the Catholic
church hides priests who molest boys, it keeps shifting their
assignments or ignoring the offense. Bad monitoring. I hope it
improves. Watch the 20/20 reports about how National BSA "handles"
complaints by turning its back on "members." All of a sudden you are
a "problem" and have to talk to the local council. At BSA, they are
too busy "building boys character" to deal with child molestation
cases. More BS from the BS of A.
>The BSA does practice what they sell...we sell a program which allows youth to
>become strong citizens of quality character. Period. And despite low numbers,
>kids and their parents and their communities LOVE what we are doing.
>
>>B$A: Woman-hating, Homophobic, >Polytheistic gods-worshipping. This is
>>what they teach young boys. This >prepares them to be little fascists,
>>ready to discriminate when they become >adults.
>
>You know, "Scout", for someone who said that they watched the "60 Minutes"
>piece, you must have been in the toilet when Leslie Stahl interviewed those
>seven young WEBELOS Cub Scouts.
>
>They loved being Cub Scouts. They didn't harbor any hatred toward anyone. I
>didn't see any facisist. They weren't talking "white power" nor "males rule".
>They were talking about having a party when they disband.
No, I must have been in the toilet when "60 Minutes" interviewed the
professionals that run the BSA? No? You mean they did not want to be
interviewed? All of them were busy "building boys character?" As
they hid under their desks. Cowards! More BS from the BSA.
>And I feel that when they become adults, they will not be discriminators, but
>rather understanding young men whom will apply their experiences as a Cub Scout
>to whatever they do as an adult.
No, they will learn to expect a reward, a little patch, or a trophy or
some recognition for their "good deed." Meanwhile, the ones denied
membership to the Great and Mighty BSA, will learn to be humble and
help their fellow man, without the self-serving example of the BSA and
how it treats people with a double standard. As membership dwindles,
the BSA will $ee the error of it$ way$.
>That's enough. You want to post more on this, take it over to
>rec.scouting.issues where this...ALL of this...belongs. The ONLY reason why I
>posted here, "Scout" is simply because America Online (tm) doesn't allow
>redirection. And because I thought that your stupid posting required a
>response.
>
>And yeah...I said "stupid"...at least you could have given yourself a little
>more credit by looking into the history and background of the organization
>you're trying to beat up.
>I have. That's why while I have exceptions with the story, I felt that it was
>a good one.
>It stated the problem, the policies, and the conflicts well enough for most to
>understand.
>
>Well....
>
>(and I do sign my name when I post...)
>
>Settummanque!
>
>
>
>
>settummanque, the blackeagle ((MAJ) Mike Walton)
>Co-Owner/Marketing Leader kyblk...@aol.com
>Rose Walton Personal Computing Coaching, Burnsville, MN
><URL::http://users.aol.com/rwcoaching/>
>Be Prepared for Scouting's new Y2K pubs...get My Binder!!
When the BSA hears you violated their precious gag order, you might
just be kicked out of the BSA, Major Mike Walton. NEXT!
And what makes you think I don't know the history of the BSA? And I
was a member. And I know where on the Internet to find the public
documents that reveal the BSA statements.
Contact the National Center for Charitable Statistics
http://nccs.urban.org/ at NC...@ui.urban.org Just request a user name
and password because you as a citizen, want to review the BSA public
finance documents.
All you can ramble about is your self-serving experiences. Gee,
wonder what you will tell...and what you will hide.
You prove yourself a typical self-righteous bigot, you have to start
calling everyone stupid that disagrees with your opinion. Maybe that
is why the BSA officials gagged everyone to not be interviewed, they
knew that they would start talking about pregnant females, faggots,
and the communist atheists. Probably claim that molested scouts
wanted it, that they were all gay anyway and got what they deserved.
Quite a great moral example for our children to learn from. Do what I
say and not what I do. The story of the BSA.
You started sounding halfway intelligent until the ending. When your
true colors were revealed, just like the BS of BSA. That is why the
BSA is scared to talk out loud. They show the hate and arrogance they
feel towards others "different" than them.
Such intolerance by a major organization. When will it end?
Contact the National Center for Charitable Statistics
http://nccs.urban.org/ at NC...@ui.urban.org Just request a user name
and password because you as a citizen, want to review the BSA public
finance documents.
Scout
wrote:
You see the point that those BSA officials can't because all they see
is dollar signs.
Scout
<jeffy...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>Okay... the Boy Scouts doesn't deny membership to females. Venturing is open
>to females up to age 21. (If you would have checked the Press Release file,
>you would have seen that the 1999 Tournament of Roses Queen was a Venture
>Scout) And with all of your defense of the Girl Scouts, you show me where
>males are allowed in the Girl Scouts. To quote the GSUSA website, "We are
>the world's largest organization for girls - just for girls." (I'm not
>putting down the Girl Scouts, I'm just making a point)
Duh, didn't you fail to mention that Boy Scouts locks out females up
to the rank of Eagle Scout. Then magically, women become magically
eligible to participate. Need to recruit those den mothers then, huh?
>How does the BSA teach boys polytheism? Do you even know the meaning of the
>word?
Yes I "know the meaning of the word." Sheesh, attack the speaker and
not the debate, why don't you. What a cheap sleazy trick.
Simple. See if you can follow along. If the BSA were a Christian
organization, then you could say they were a one God organization. By
specifically denying membership to atheists, BSA implies that it does
not matter which of a thousand gods you believe in, as long as you
believe in one of them. Since most religions deny worship of other
religion's gods, that means that a Boy Scout who worships Zeus or
Wicca is equally entitled to membership as one who worships Jesus
Christ. Requiring that so many boys worship from a menu of gods,
implies that the BSA is pantheistic and practices polytheism. All BSA
may use the worship of "god" to build "character" but is that "god"
Jesus Christ, The Messiah, Mohammed, Buddha, Zeus, Satan?
If you believe that there is only one true God, then the rest are not
just "forms" of God, they are false gods. But ignore that point, and
you are still encouraging the worship of many different gods.
So an organization devoted to requiring that so many boys worship from
a menu of gods in order to gain membership, implies that the BSA is
pantheistic and practices polytheism.
If you can't see the difference, try worshipping Sunday in a different
religion Church and tell me you worship the same God. If you are a
Buddhist, go to a Christian Church and praise Buddha and see the
reaction if all gods are the same.
How do we "shield child molesters from publicity"? I read that
"public
>statement file", and all I see is a few paragraphs that say that the United
>States Supreme Court upholds the BSA's right to set its own membership
>policy. Is that such a bad thing?
For years, the National BSA's answer to child abuse charges was to
defer to the local council. They washed their hands, as if they had
no control over scouting at all. Even though all members are approved
by the BSA. Did you watch the 60 Minutes or 20/20 about the boy who
was sodomized by a Scouter and the national office just hung up on
them?
Real class. Notice the difference in the Girl Scouts who own their
councils directly. But then they don't tolerate abuse, nor
discrimination against scouts.
>And you also say that the BSA has a "monopoly on uniforms, equipment,
>retreats." I could use the same argument about any number of other
>organizations. If you can come up with examples of all of your claims (which
>I seriously doubt), then someone might actually listen to you. But until
>that happens, kindly keep your slander of the Boy Scouts of America to
>yourself.
Easy, where are you going to buy a Boy Scout uniform? Only by a Scout
shop or authorized distributor. And who controls that? BSA. Try
knocking off some BSA supplies and you will be sued. Big money maker
and they hold the monopoly. Nothing wrong with holding a patent and
copyright. Wrong to strong arm people to be "100% in uniform."
Like they could not do the program without a uniform. It is not an
army. Is there a uniform for the YMCA? See how they "shake down"
scouts?
I notice you had a brain fart about any examples. I gave you the BSA
example. I guess you are ignorant.
Until you can come up with any examples, you are just some some BSA
brown noser, undeserving of any attention.
Slander? Slander you say?
I hope your child is never sodimized to have the BSA turn its back on
them. The BSA is guilty of child abuse and neglect.
Read the tons of court cases, then pull your head out and say
something intelligent for a change.
You are a cold, heartless individual. It is ALL about the kids. The
BSA should be willing to die to protect its kids. Instead, it hires
lawyers, dodges interviews, shirks its public responsibility and spins
the news.
Next thing, the BSA might say that all the scouts that were molested
were gay and deserved it. And of course kick them out. LOL!
No, they would never go that far, would they?
Pug Crydee
> in the USA. We know both have programs for opposite sexes. The BSA
> just has the second-class Learning for Life. Period. The question
> is: why does training girls and boys together in scouting work in the
> rest of the world except in the USA? Because the BSA keeps saying it
> promotes the unique development of the boy. BS, like that does not
> happen in the rest of the world. They are liars.
In regards to both having programs for the other sex, I know that young
ladys can be members of a venture post. But, maybe I'm under-informed,
what program does the Girl scouts offer boys? My understanding is that
the ONLY males allowed in the Girl Scouting Program are the fathers of the
girls.
--
Pug Crydee
BSA Troop 338, Klondike IN
Once a Bear, always a Bear.
C-4-00
Big Chris
you start the group, and it is all that you think it would be, it'll put the
BSA out of business. Let us know when you have that going, and we'll see
how it goes. I wish you luck.
It's amazing how those who cry for tolerance for "THEIR" point of veiw are
often not willing to allow anyone else to have a different point of view.
--
_________
Big Chris
Nothing worthwhile was ever accomplished without the will to start,
the enthusiasm to continue and, regardless of temporary obstacles,
the persistence to complete.
--Waite Phillips
Rob Blau
<jeffy...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
> How does the BSA teach boys polytheism? Do you even know the meaning of the
> word?
Good point. There were so many other things to comment on that I let
that one pass. BSA does not teach polytheism. Far from it.
> How do we "shield child molesters from publicity"?
I wondered about that too.
> I read that "public
> statement file", and all I see is a few paragraphs that say that the United
> States Supreme Court upholds the BSA's right to set its own membership
> policy. Is that such a bad thing?
Depends on the nature of the organization. I had viewed the BSA as a
place of public accomodation and frankly think that it should recast
itself as one. Now, however, it is clear that the BSA is a restricive
club not open to all. We are more like a country club than a public
school. A mistake but that is the way it is.
Rob Blau
Rob Blau
<Sc...@aol.com> wrote:
> >How does the BSA teach boys polytheism? Do you even know the meaning of the
> >word?
>
> Yes I "know the meaning of the word." Sheesh, attack the speaker and
> not the debate, why don't you. What a cheap sleazy trick.
>
> Simple. See if you can follow along. If the BSA were a Christian
> organization, then you could say they were a one God organization. By
> specifically denying membership to atheists, BSA implies that it does
> not matter which of a thousand gods you believe in, as long as you
> believe in one of them. Since most religions deny worship of other
> religion's gods, that means that a Boy Scout who worships Zeus or
> Wicca is equally entitled to membership as one who worships Jesus
> Christ. Requiring that so many boys worship from a menu of gods,
> implies that the BSA is pantheistic and practices polytheism. All BSA
> may use the worship of "god" to build "character" but is that "god"
> Jesus Christ, The Messiah, Mohammed, Buddha, Zeus, Satan?
Jews believe that there is one God.
Shema yisrael adonay elohenu adonay ehad.
"Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one" (Deut. 6:4).
Christianity is, if course, despite the confusion engendered by the
trinity, a monothesitic religion. Jesus said:
"I and My Father are One." [not two Gods.] (John 10:30; Mosiah 8:91;
Alma 8:104; III Nephi 5:27and 5:38 and others.)
This truth of one God is accentuated in the New Testament by both Jesus
and His apostles. "Seeing it is one God which shall justify" (Rom.
3:30). "There is none other God but one" (I Cor. 8:4). "But to us there
is but one God, the Father" (I Cor. 8:6). "But God is one" (Gal. 3:20).
"One God and Father of all" (Eph. 4:6). "For there is one God" (I Tim.
2:5). "You believes that there is one God; you do well: the devils also
believe, and tremble" (James 2:19).
Islam also teaches monotheism which is the doctrine that there is only
one God in all existence. A Muslim (or Moslem - which means one who
surrenders to God) is an adherent of Islam, a religion with precise
theological doctrines about God, judgment, heaven, hell, angels,
prophets, salvation, etc. The Arabic word for god is "allah" which has
become a kind of name of God in Islam. Islam teaches that Allah is the
one and only deity in all existence (Qur'an 5:73; 112:1-4). He is
supreme, all knowing (40:20), ever-present, different from all of
creation (3:191), and in complete control of all things. According to
Islam, Allah created the universe in six days (2:29; 25:61-62) and all
that is in it continues to exist by his permission and will.
Second only to the Islamic belief in the unity/oneness of God is the
supremacy of Muhammad as Allah's prophet. But, Islam acknowledges that
several prophets preceded Muhammad. The major ones are Noah, Abraham,
Moses, David, and Jesus. These prophets gave revelations from God
which were written as scriptures; mainly, the Old and New Testaments.
These predecessors to Muhammad are considered great prophets who spoke
for God to specific people and whose message was meant for that time.
Jesus, then, was simply one of many prophets according to Islam.
Therefore, they deny the Christian doctrine of the deity of Jesus, the
need for His atoning sacrifice (4:157-158), the Trinity (5:73), and
much more. According to Islam, no sacrifice is needed to be forgiven,
only faith in Allah, sincere repentance, and obedience to Islamic law
(3:135; 7:8-9; 21:47; 49:14; 66:8-9). In fact, in Islam, the greatest
of sins, called shirk, is to attribute "partners" to God. In other
words, to say that God is a Trinity of persons is an unforgivable sin
to a Muslim.
I'll leave what you call God up to you.
>
> If you believe that there is only one true God, then the rest are not
> just "forms" of God, they are false gods. But ignore that point, and
> you are still encouraging the worship of many different gods.
I believe that athere is One God. Christians also believe that there
is one God. Moslems believe that there is One God. Each of these
religions believe that they are worshiping the same God but in a
different way.
>
> So an organization devoted to requiring that so many boys worship from
> a menu of gods in order to gain membership, implies that the BSA is
> pantheistic and practices polytheism.
Ninety nine percent of the boys in the BSA are are monotheistic. The
fact that the BSA tolerates polytheism does not make it polytheistic.
Actually, the BSA is very uncomfortable with the Wiccans and refuses to
allow them to Charter units.
> If you can't see the difference, try worshipping Sunday in a different
> religion Church and tell me you worship the same God. If you are a
> Buddhist, go to a Christian Church and praise Buddha and see the
> reaction if all gods are the same.
That is not how most people define the term polytheism. But if that is
what you mean by polytheism, then I say thank God that the BSA is
polytheistic.
There is only one God. I believe that as do most, but not all, the
religious people in the world. We do have different beliefs as to how
to worship Him or to what He expects of us. But most of us believe
that there is one God. That the BSA allows us the freedom to worship
in different ways or, for that matter, to believe in more than one God,
as the Wiccans do, does not mean that it teaches polytheism.
Rob Blau
Michelle A. Mader
>
> In regards to both having programs for the other sex, I know that young
> ladys can be members of a venture post. But, maybe I'm under-informed,
> what program does the Girl scouts offer boys? My understanding is that
> the ONLY males allowed in the Girl Scouting Program are the fathers of the
> girls.
>
Yes and no. GSUSA does not offer program for boys. Any adult male can
be a GSUSA member in both paid and unpaid positions, not just the fathers
of girls.
However, you also need to look at the way the two organizations are run.
GSUSA only provides one program for girls, Girl Scouts. It is organized
by age appropriate levels so that you have daisy, brownie, junior, cadette,
and senior girl scouts but they are all girl scouts.
BSA, on the other hand, provides several programs. Cub Scouts are
not Boy Scouts, Venture Scouts are not Boy Scouts, Learning for Life
are not Boy Scouts, though all are under the BSA umbrella.
Michelle Mader
Girl Scouts of Lake Erie Council
Dr John Stockton
Apr 2001 16:18:39 in rec.scouting.misc, scout <sc...@aol.com> wrote:
>Greedy B$A Boy Scouts of America takes tax exemptions from America
>including: Girls, Gays, and Godless, but denies them membership
This material is off-topic for rec.scouting.misc. Please have the
courtesy (as has already been shown by one poster, intentionally or
otherwise) to remove that group from any follow-ups within this whole
thread.
Newsgroup rec.scouting was removed, by democratic vote, some years ago.
Only ill-run servers will carry it, and posts to it will not propagate
well. Those who receive it as such should consider changing to a
better-run service.
The best place for such material would be in the national hierarchy of
the USA, news:us.*, where normal practice includes mentoring such as
(ISTM) USScouts would dearly love to be able to do. Use of a non-
national hierarchy means that the dirty (actual or alleged) linen of the
BSA is being washed before the world public; it is not a pretty sight.
Anonymous and pseudonymous postings are as much to be deprecated as are
vanity signatures; neither cowardice nor boastfulness are seemly.
NGs reduced. FU set.
--
John Stockton, Surrey, UK. j...@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v1.12 MIME.
Web <URL: http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
Correct 4-line sig. separator is as above, a line precisely "-- " (SoRFC1036)
Do not Mail News to me. Before a reply, quote with ">" or "> " (SoRFC1036)
IHat...@home.com
I'll bet that if someone from your church knew you talked like this you
couldn't teach Sunday School anymore either. LOL. Churches have
standards to you know.
As for teaching hate, scouting does not. Sure, you might find an adult
here and there that isn't walking the straight and narrow but you will
find that everywhere.
B$A: Woman-hating, Homophobic, Polytheistic gods-worshipping.
This is
what they teach young boys. This prepares them to be little
fascists,
ready to discriminate when they become adults.
And, woman hating? Where on earth do you get that? I'm guessing that at
least half of the Cub Scout Den Leaders are women, and at least 20% of BSA
leaders are women. I personally feel that the reason more men are leaders
in BSA than women is that it is because the boys are older and need male
guidance. It's what the parents want for their boys! Women can teach
just fine but there is such a thing as role modeling. We have one
Assistance Scout Master that is female. I have never ever heard anyone
suggest that she shouldn't because she's not a man. I just don't know
where you folks are getting this stuff about woman hating. I think you're
looking to make problems where they are not because you just don't have
enough to do huh?
K
Pug Crydee
<Michelle...@grc.nasa.gov> wrote:
Thank you for informing me.
whs
CWBarton
scout wrote in message ...
>If this were 100 years ago, B$A would probably set up a Black Scouts.
>But there are laws against that discrimination.
Actually, the BSA (as well as any other "private" organization, such as the
Kiwanis or Jaycees) now has the SCOTUS-approved right to bar blacks (or
women, or Jews, or left-handers) from their group. All they have to do is
BEGIN chanting "blacks (or women, etc.) are not consistent with our beliefs
and not good role models."
No justification or history is necessary.
Say "thank you" to the Supreme Court of the United States.
Dave
you can do anything that is lawful, and then "you" complain because the law
isn't the way "you" want it to be...
Get over it... Stop whimpering and change the law if it offends you so. It
does no good to whine about it. That will not change a thing.
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh.
CWBarton <buckerr...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:zUaC6.3537$dW5.1...@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...