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Gay Scout's request for Eagle rank rejected as it should be.
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Leroy N. Soetoro
Jan 16, 2013, 9:11:07 PM1/16/13
to
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/us/california-gay-eagle-
scout/index.html?iref=obinsite
(CNN) -- A gay California Boy Scout's application for Eagle rank was
rejected by a Scout council, an official with the organization said
Tuesday.
In response, the Scout's parents pledged to press their son's national
campaign for gay Scouts to be eligible for Eagle status.
John Fenoglio, Scout executive for the Mount Diablo-Silverado Boy Scout
Council, said the Eagle rank application from Ryan Andresen of Moraga,
California, wasn't approved because of "membership standards,"
specifically "duty to God, avowed homosexuality, and the fact that he is
now over 18 years of age."
Contrary to some media accounts, Andresen's application wasn't approved by
the local council in Contra Costa County, nor was it submitted to the Boy
Scouts' national office, Fenoglio told CNN.
The teen's father, Eric Andresen, said his son, a high school senior,
wasn't available for comment Tuesday because he's studying for exams and
preparing college applications.
"It's pretty upsetting, and it's wrong," the father said of the council's
decision. "The whole thing has been wrong since day one.
"It's politics now, and it's just ridiculous," he continued.
The Boy Scouts of America policy does "not grant membership to individuals
who are open or avowed homosexuals or who engage in behavior that would
become a distraction to the mission of the BSA," the group's website says.
Karen Andresen, the Scout's mother, "is trying to go back to being a mom,"
the father said. "It's pretty overwhelming for all of us."
In his Eagle Scout application process, Ryan Andresen was recently
interviewed by a Scout review board that included Bonnie Hazarabedian, the
volunteer district advancement chairwoman.
That board approved Ryan Andresen's application, which then forwarded it
to the Mount Diablo-Silverado Boy Scout Council for review, Hazarabedian
said.
When Hazarabedian passed along the application to Fenoglio, he indicated
to her that Andresen's Eagle Scout application would be approved and sent
to the national council for final approval, Hazarabedian said in a
statement.
But that didn't happen, she said.
"Our community is standing behind Ryan Andresen," Hazarabedian said. "When
I dropped off Ryan's unanimously approved Eagle Board of Review
application and report on December 31, Mr. Fenoglio looked me in the eyes,
patted the stack of papers, and said, 'We'll sign it and send it on, but
can't promise what will happen from there.'
"I'm totally perplexed by this statement from Scout Executive Fenoglio, a
man I greatly respect and admire," Hazarabedian said about the local
council's rejection.
Opinion: Scouts, time to end discrimination
Fenoglio couldn't be immediately reached for a comment about
Hazarabedian's statement.
Boys Scout national spokesman Deron Smith said that Ryan Andresen's
application didn't meet the group's standards.
"The Eagle application was forwarded, by a volunteer, to the local council
but it was not approved because this young man proactively stated that he
does not agree to Scouting's principle of 'Duty to God' and does not meet
Scouting's membership requirements," Smith said. "Therefore, he is not
eligible to receive the rank of Eagle."
Ryan Andresen, 18, was denied Eagle rank last year after coming out as
gay, said the gay rights advocacy group GLAAD, which has been campaigning
on behalf of Andresen.
A Boy Scout for many years, Ryan Andresen also completed an anti-bullying
project, GLAAD said.
His mother has been collecting signatures on a Change.org petition calling
upon the Boy Scout to grant her son Eagle rank. Her son has been in
Scouting since 6 and has long dreamed of becoming an Eagle Scout, the
mother said in the online petition.
Ryan Andresen built a "tolerance wall" made out of 288 unique tiles at his
school and was assisted by elementary students, his mother said. The wall
shows that bully victims aren't alone.
"Ryan has worked for nearly 12 years to become an Eagle Scout, and nothing
would make him more proud than earning that well-deserved distinction,"
the mother said in the online petition, which has collected more than
450,000 signatures. "I hope that if enough people come together, we can
convince my son's troop leaders to help him feel proud of who he is and
all he's accomplished."
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/03/us/ice-child-abuse-
arrests/index.html%3Fc=us&page=2?iref=obinsite
245 arrested in U.S.-led child sex abuse operation
Washington (CNN) -- An international operation led by U.S. Immigration and
Customs Enforcement aimed at child pornography and sexual abuse has
resulted in the arrest of 245 suspects, officials announced Thursday. All
but 23 of the suspects were apprehended in the United States.
The agency said that during the course of Operation Sunflower, law
enforcement officers identified 123 victims of child exploitation and
removed 44 of those children from their alleged abusers with whom they
were living. The other cases involved victims who were exploited by people
outside their homes or children who were harmed years ago and are now
adults.
Several of the children were shockingly young. Five were under age 3. Nine
were between the ages of 4 and 6. Of the 123 victims, 110 lived in the
United States in 19 different states. ICE officials did not identify the
six other countries where victims were identified or where some of the
arrests were made, citing the need to work discreetly with international
law enforcement partners.
According to ICE, some of those arrested during Operation Sunflower were
registered sex offenders.
--
Barack Obama, reelected by the dumbest and most fearful people in the
history of the United States of America.
Eric Holder, racist black murdering United States Attorney General, still
has his job.
Nancy Pelosi, Democrat criminal, accessory before and after the fact to
improper vetting of Barry Soetoro aka Barack Hussein Obama, a confirmed
felon using SSAN 042-68-4425, belonging to a dead man.
Obama ignored the brutal killing of an American diplomat in Benghazi, then
relieved American military officers who attempted to prevent said murder
in order to cover up his own ineptness.
Obama continues his goal of disarming America after known mentally
disturbed liberal Adam Peter Lanza killed 20 school children and 6 adults
in Sandy Hook Connecticut on December 14, 2012. Every single liberal
inspired and authored gun control law in existence failed to prevent this
tragedy.
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
scout/index.html?iref=obinsite
(CNN) -- A gay California Boy Scout's application for Eagle rank was
rejected by a Scout council, an official with the organization said
Tuesday.
In response, the Scout's parents pledged to press their son's national
campaign for gay Scouts to be eligible for Eagle status.
John Fenoglio, Scout executive for the Mount Diablo-Silverado Boy Scout
Council, said the Eagle rank application from Ryan Andresen of Moraga,
California, wasn't approved because of "membership standards,"
specifically "duty to God, avowed homosexuality, and the fact that he is
now over 18 years of age."
Contrary to some media accounts, Andresen's application wasn't approved by
the local council in Contra Costa County, nor was it submitted to the Boy
Scouts' national office, Fenoglio told CNN.
The teen's father, Eric Andresen, said his son, a high school senior,
wasn't available for comment Tuesday because he's studying for exams and
preparing college applications.
"It's pretty upsetting, and it's wrong," the father said of the council's
decision. "The whole thing has been wrong since day one.
"It's politics now, and it's just ridiculous," he continued.
The Boy Scouts of America policy does "not grant membership to individuals
who are open or avowed homosexuals or who engage in behavior that would
become a distraction to the mission of the BSA," the group's website says.
Karen Andresen, the Scout's mother, "is trying to go back to being a mom,"
the father said. "It's pretty overwhelming for all of us."
In his Eagle Scout application process, Ryan Andresen was recently
interviewed by a Scout review board that included Bonnie Hazarabedian, the
volunteer district advancement chairwoman.
That board approved Ryan Andresen's application, which then forwarded it
to the Mount Diablo-Silverado Boy Scout Council for review, Hazarabedian
said.
When Hazarabedian passed along the application to Fenoglio, he indicated
to her that Andresen's Eagle Scout application would be approved and sent
to the national council for final approval, Hazarabedian said in a
statement.
But that didn't happen, she said.
"Our community is standing behind Ryan Andresen," Hazarabedian said. "When
I dropped off Ryan's unanimously approved Eagle Board of Review
application and report on December 31, Mr. Fenoglio looked me in the eyes,
patted the stack of papers, and said, 'We'll sign it and send it on, but
can't promise what will happen from there.'
"I'm totally perplexed by this statement from Scout Executive Fenoglio, a
man I greatly respect and admire," Hazarabedian said about the local
council's rejection.
Opinion: Scouts, time to end discrimination
Fenoglio couldn't be immediately reached for a comment about
Hazarabedian's statement.
Boys Scout national spokesman Deron Smith said that Ryan Andresen's
application didn't meet the group's standards.
"The Eagle application was forwarded, by a volunteer, to the local council
but it was not approved because this young man proactively stated that he
does not agree to Scouting's principle of 'Duty to God' and does not meet
Scouting's membership requirements," Smith said. "Therefore, he is not
eligible to receive the rank of Eagle."
Ryan Andresen, 18, was denied Eagle rank last year after coming out as
gay, said the gay rights advocacy group GLAAD, which has been campaigning
on behalf of Andresen.
A Boy Scout for many years, Ryan Andresen also completed an anti-bullying
project, GLAAD said.
His mother has been collecting signatures on a Change.org petition calling
upon the Boy Scout to grant her son Eagle rank. Her son has been in
Scouting since 6 and has long dreamed of becoming an Eagle Scout, the
mother said in the online petition.
Ryan Andresen built a "tolerance wall" made out of 288 unique tiles at his
school and was assisted by elementary students, his mother said. The wall
shows that bully victims aren't alone.
"Ryan has worked for nearly 12 years to become an Eagle Scout, and nothing
would make him more proud than earning that well-deserved distinction,"
the mother said in the online petition, which has collected more than
450,000 signatures. "I hope that if enough people come together, we can
convince my son's troop leaders to help him feel proud of who he is and
all he's accomplished."
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/03/us/ice-child-abuse-
arrests/index.html%3Fc=us&page=2?iref=obinsite
245 arrested in U.S.-led child sex abuse operation
Washington (CNN) -- An international operation led by U.S. Immigration and
Customs Enforcement aimed at child pornography and sexual abuse has
resulted in the arrest of 245 suspects, officials announced Thursday. All
but 23 of the suspects were apprehended in the United States.
The agency said that during the course of Operation Sunflower, law
enforcement officers identified 123 victims of child exploitation and
removed 44 of those children from their alleged abusers with whom they
were living. The other cases involved victims who were exploited by people
outside their homes or children who were harmed years ago and are now
adults.
Several of the children were shockingly young. Five were under age 3. Nine
were between the ages of 4 and 6. Of the 123 victims, 110 lived in the
United States in 19 different states. ICE officials did not identify the
six other countries where victims were identified or where some of the
arrests were made, citing the need to work discreetly with international
law enforcement partners.
According to ICE, some of those arrested during Operation Sunflower were
registered sex offenders.
--
Barack Obama, reelected by the dumbest and most fearful people in the
history of the United States of America.
Eric Holder, racist black murdering United States Attorney General, still
has his job.
Nancy Pelosi, Democrat criminal, accessory before and after the fact to
improper vetting of Barry Soetoro aka Barack Hussein Obama, a confirmed
felon using SSAN 042-68-4425, belonging to a dead man.
Obama ignored the brutal killing of an American diplomat in Benghazi, then
relieved American military officers who attempted to prevent said murder
in order to cover up his own ineptness.
Obama continues his goal of disarming America after known mentally
disturbed liberal Adam Peter Lanza killed 20 school children and 6 adults
in Sandy Hook Connecticut on December 14, 2012. Every single liberal
inspired and authored gun control law in existence failed to prevent this
tragedy.
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
Message has been deleted
MarkA
Jan 17, 2013, 10:00:29 AM1/17/13
to
On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 02:11:07 +0000, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/us/california-gay-eagle-
> scout/index.html?iref=obinsite
>
> (CNN) -- A gay California Boy Scout's application for Eagle rank was
> rejected by a Scout council, an official with the organization said
> Tuesday.
>
> In response, the Scout's parents pledged to press their son's national
> campaign for gay Scouts to be eligible for Eagle status.
>
The SCOTUS has already ruled that the BSA is a private organization, and
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/us/california-gay-eagle-
> scout/index.html?iref=obinsite
>
> (CNN) -- A gay California Boy Scout's application for Eagle rank was
> rejected by a Scout council, an official with the organization said
> Tuesday.
>
> In response, the Scout's parents pledged to press their son's national
> campaign for gay Scouts to be eligible for Eagle status.
>
is free to impose whatever membership standards they like. This scout
should quit the organization entirely, and join one of many alternatives,
such as the Baden-Powell Service Association.
--
MarkA
Keeper of Things Put There Only Just The Night Before
About eight o'clock
Dakota
Jan 17, 2013, 12:28:22 PM1/17/13
to
On 1/17/2013 9:00 AM, MarkA wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 02:11:07 +0000, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>
>> http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/us/california-gay-eagle-
>> scout/index.html?iref=obinsite
>>
>> (CNN) -- A gay California Boy Scout's application for Eagle rank was
>> rejected by a Scout council, an official with the organization said
>> Tuesday.
>>
>> In response, the Scout's parents pledged to press their son's national
>> campaign for gay Scouts to be eligible for Eagle status.
>>
>
> The SCOTUS has already ruled that the BSA is a private organization, and
> is free to impose whatever membership standards they like. This scout
> should quit the organization entirely, and join one of many alternatives,
> such as the Baden-Powell Service Association.
>
The Boy Scouts of America has become a hate group. It should be
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 02:11:07 +0000, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>
>> http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/us/california-gay-eagle-
>> scout/index.html?iref=obinsite
>>
>> (CNN) -- A gay California Boy Scout's application for Eagle rank was
>> rejected by a Scout council, an official with the organization said
>> Tuesday.
>>
>> In response, the Scout's parents pledged to press their son's national
>> campaign for gay Scouts to be eligible for Eagle status.
>>
>
> The SCOTUS has already ruled that the BSA is a private organization, and
> is free to impose whatever membership standards they like. This scout
> should quit the organization entirely, and join one of many alternatives,
> such as the Baden-Powell Service Association.
>
allowed to wither and die through lack of support.
ken
Jan 17, 2013, 12:33:18 PM1/17/13
to
On Jan 17, 9:28 am, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
> The Boy Scouts of America has become a hate group. It should be
> allowed to wither and die through lack of support.
Like!
> The Boy Scouts of America has become a hate group. It should be
> allowed to wither and die through lack of support.
Dakota
Jan 17, 2013, 2:40:03 PM1/17/13
to
used to support BSA.
Fred^2013.01
Jan 17, 2013, 4:18:38 PM1/17/13
to
MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 02:11:07 +0000, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>> http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/us/california-gay-eagle-scout/index.html?iref=obinsite
>> (CNN) -- A gay California Boy Scout's application for Eagle rank was
>> rejected by a Scout council, an official with the organization said Tuesday.
>> In response, the Scout's parents pledged to press their son's national
>> campaign for gay Scouts to be eligible for Eagle status.
>The SCOTUS has already ruled that the BSA is a private organization, and
>is free to impose whatever membership standards they like. This scout
>should quit the organization entirely, and join one of many alternatives,
>such as the Baden-Powell Service Association.
He already has, there ius a National Scounting organization that has
>On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 02:11:07 +0000, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>> http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/us/california-gay-eagle-scout/index.html?iref=obinsite
>> (CNN) -- A gay California Boy Scout's application for Eagle rank was
>> rejected by a Scout council, an official with the organization said Tuesday.
>> In response, the Scout's parents pledged to press their son's national
>> campaign for gay Scouts to be eligible for Eagle status.
>The SCOTUS has already ruled that the BSA is a private organization, and
>is free to impose whatever membership standards they like. This scout
>should quit the organization entirely, and join one of many alternatives,
>such as the Baden-Powell Service Association.
been taking in BSofA kids and resuming Scouting for them, even going
so far as to vviolate the BSofA's trademarks and manufacturing their
own Merit Badges and producing their own handbooks.
The national Scouting organization has granted this Scout his Eagle,
and the NSofA religious shits can't say anything about it -- though
they're expected to file civil lawsuit for trademark violation.
---
A good guy with a gun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwRrmH39n00
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 17, 2013, 4:44:09 PM1/17/13
to
On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:40:03 -0600, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com>
wrote:
There is a vast difference between hating queers and refusing to
accept them as members in organizations when they disagree with the
principles and would insist on change.
wrote:
accept them as members in organizations when they disagree with the
principles and would insist on change.
MarkA
Jan 17, 2013, 5:00:23 PM1/17/13
to
from their list of recipients, many years ago. Now, I have another reason
not to donate to them!
Dakota
Jan 17, 2013, 5:10:28 PM1/17/13
to
On 1/17/2013 4:00 PM, MarkA wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:40:03 -0600, Dakota wrote:
>
>> On 1/17/2013 11:33 AM, ken wrote:
>>> On Jan 17, 9:28 am, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Boy Scouts of America has become a hate group. It should be allowed
>>>> to wither and die through lack of support.
>>>
>>> Like!
>>>
>> When I donate to The United Way I specify that the money is not to be used
>> to support BSA.
>
> I stopped donating to the United Way when they dropped Planned Parenthood
> from their list of recipients, many years ago. Now, I have another reason
> not to donate to them!
>
I didn't realize they had dropped PP. No more United Way for me.
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:40:03 -0600, Dakota wrote:
>
>> On 1/17/2013 11:33 AM, ken wrote:
>>> On Jan 17, 9:28 am, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Boy Scouts of America has become a hate group. It should be allowed
>>>> to wither and die through lack of support.
>>>
>>> Like!
>>>
>> When I donate to The United Way I specify that the money is not to be used
>> to support BSA.
>
> I stopped donating to the United Way when they dropped Planned Parenthood
> from their list of recipients, many years ago. Now, I have another reason
> not to donate to them!
>
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 18, 2013, 7:16:03 AM1/18/13
to
On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:18:38 GMT, rep...@scientology.org
and have to copy.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
(Fred^2013.01) wrote:
>The national Scouting organization has granted this Scout his Eagle,
>and the NSofA religious shits can't say anything about it -- though
>they're expected to file civil lawsuit for trademark violation.
It's really a pity that they are not intelligent enough to be original
>The national Scouting organization has granted this Scout his Eagle,
>and the NSofA religious shits can't say anything about it -- though
>they're expected to file civil lawsuit for trademark violation.
and have to copy.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
MarkA
Jan 18, 2013, 9:23:13 AM1/18/13
to
Concern that they are an abomination in the eyes of God? Fear that they
are going to rape little boys? Arbitrary meanness? They all sound pretty
hateful to me.
MarkA
Jan 18, 2013, 9:24:12 AM1/18/13
to
anti-atheism policies of the BSA.
Fred^2013.01
Jan 18, 2013, 12:38:58 PM1/18/13
to
Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:40:03 -0600, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com>
>On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:40:03 -0600, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com>
>>On 1/17/2013 11:33 AM, ken wrote:
>>> On Jan 17, 9:28 am, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>>> The Boy Scouts of America has become a hate group. It should be
>>>> allowed to wither and die through lack of support.
>>> Like!
>>When I donate to The United Way I specify that the money is not to be
>>used to support BSA.
>There is a vast difference between hating queers and refusing to
>accept them as members in organizations when they disagree with the
>principles and would insist on change.
What "principles" are those, J? The BSofA principles are hatred,
>>> On Jan 17, 9:28 am, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>>> The Boy Scouts of America has become a hate group. It should be
>>>> allowed to wither and die through lack of support.
>>> Like!
>>When I donate to The United Way I specify that the money is not to be
>>used to support BSA.
>There is a vast difference between hating queers and refusing to
>accept them as members in organizations when they disagree with the
>principles and would insist on change.
bigotry, fear, is that what you're defending? The "principles" that
the BSofA cult live by is hate.
Fred^2013.01
Jan 18, 2013, 12:40:10 PM1/18/13
to
Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
idea what the National Scounting organization is because you're an
insane hate filled Christian.
Fred^2013.01
Jan 18, 2013, 12:41:19 PM1/18/13
to
MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 12:16:03 +0000, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:18:38 GMT, rep...@scientology.org (Fred^2013.01)
>On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 12:16:03 +0000, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:18:38 GMT, rep...@scientology.org (Fred^2013.01)
>>>The national Scouting organization has granted this Scout his Eagle, and
>>>the NSofA religious shits can't say anything about it -- though they're
>>>expected to file civil lawsuit for trademark violation.
>> It's really a pity that they are not intelligent enough to be original and
>> have to copy. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
>That's why the scouting alternatives don't imitate the anti-gay,
>anti-atheism policies of the BSA.
The National Scouting organization draws its membership from BSofA
>>>the NSofA religious shits can't say anything about it -- though they're
>>>expected to file civil lawsuit for trademark violation.
>> It's really a pity that they are not intelligent enough to be original and
>> have to copy. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
>That's why the scouting alternatives don't imitate the anti-gay,
>anti-atheism policies of the BSA.
members as well as from boys that have never been in the hate cult.
Dakota
Jan 18, 2013, 12:56:08 PM1/18/13
to
mutated into a fundamentalist Christian organization.
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 18, 2013, 4:25:10 PM1/18/13
to
On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 09:23:13 -0500, MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid>
contrive them sounds pretty hateful to me.
The written BSA policy states that homo LEADERS don't qualify for
membership. Like many other organizations, people must qualify for
membership. The Fleet Reserve, VFW, American Legion have specific
quals although not the same as BSA. So the sole difference is whose ox
is gored. With BSA it is yours.
BSA believes in a Duty to God. God found homos an abomination. Oh, I
know, you can explain that - to yourself anyhow. BSA is not in the
business, or capable of, helping those people to see the light the way
BSA does. Acceptance of people whose opinions are so far apart would
disrupt the focus of the organization.
BSA never says being queer is wrong - just not acceptable for
membership as leaders by people who have a duty to God. Certainly
everybody sins, but not so overtly. And you probably don't agree it is
a sin.
wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:44:09 +0000, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:40:03 -0600, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 1/17/2013 11:33 AM, ken wrote:
>>>> On Jan 17, 9:28 am, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Boy Scouts of America has become a hate group. It should be
>>>>> allowed to wither and die through lack of support.
>>>>
>>>> Like!
>>>>
>>>When I donate to The United Way I specify that the money is not to be
>>>used to support BSA.
>>
>> There is a vast difference between hating queers and refusing to accept
>> them as members in organizations when they disagree with the principles
>> and would insist on change.
>
>Really? So, what would justify excluding "queers" from scouting?
>Concern that they are an abomination in the eyes of God? Fear that they
>are going to rape little boys? Arbitrary meanness? They all sound pretty
>hateful to me.
Those are reasons you contrived, not BSA. The fact that you need to
>On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:44:09 +0000, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:40:03 -0600, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 1/17/2013 11:33 AM, ken wrote:
>>>> On Jan 17, 9:28 am, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Boy Scouts of America has become a hate group. It should be
>>>>> allowed to wither and die through lack of support.
>>>>
>>>> Like!
>>>>
>>>When I donate to The United Way I specify that the money is not to be
>>>used to support BSA.
>>
>> There is a vast difference between hating queers and refusing to accept
>> them as members in organizations when they disagree with the principles
>> and would insist on change.
>
>Really? So, what would justify excluding "queers" from scouting?
>Concern that they are an abomination in the eyes of God? Fear that they
>are going to rape little boys? Arbitrary meanness? They all sound pretty
>hateful to me.
contrive them sounds pretty hateful to me.
The written BSA policy states that homo LEADERS don't qualify for
membership. Like many other organizations, people must qualify for
membership. The Fleet Reserve, VFW, American Legion have specific
quals although not the same as BSA. So the sole difference is whose ox
is gored. With BSA it is yours.
BSA believes in a Duty to God. God found homos an abomination. Oh, I
know, you can explain that - to yourself anyhow. BSA is not in the
business, or capable of, helping those people to see the light the way
BSA does. Acceptance of people whose opinions are so far apart would
disrupt the focus of the organization.
BSA never says being queer is wrong - just not acceptable for
membership as leaders by people who have a duty to God. Certainly
everybody sins, but not so overtly. And you probably don't agree it is
a sin.
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 18, 2013, 4:32:05 PM1/18/13
to
On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 11:56:08 -0600, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com>
excluded? They exclude themselves by refusing to comply with the
membership requirements. Whether you agree with the principles is
moot.
BSA requires a Duty to God. That God is not defined and the duties are
not taught by BSA. A number of religions support the Scouting
movement, not solely Christian.
You need to spend some time acquainting yourself with facts before you
post your lack of them.
Hugh
wrote:
>On 1/18/2013 8:23 AM, MarkA wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:44:09 +0000, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:40:03 -0600, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/17/2013 11:33 AM, ken wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 17, 9:28 am, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Boy Scouts of America has become a hate group. It should be
>>>>>> allowed to wither and die through lack of support.
>>>>>
>>>>> Like!
>>>>>
>>>> When I donate to The United Way I specify that the money is not to be
>>>> used to support BSA.
>>>
>>> There is a vast difference between hating queers and refusing to accept
>>> them as members in organizations when they disagree with the principles
>>> and would insist on change.
>>
>> Really? So, what would justify excluding "queers" from scouting?
>> Concern that they are an abomination in the eyes of God? Fear that they
>> are going to rape little boys? Arbitrary meanness? They all sound pretty
>> hateful to me.
>>
>The BSA also excludes atheists. The problem is that the BSA has
>mutated into a fundamentalist Christian organization.
Where in the written ploicy of BSA does it state that atheists are
>On 1/18/2013 8:23 AM, MarkA wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:44:09 +0000, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:40:03 -0600, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/17/2013 11:33 AM, ken wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 17, 9:28 am, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Boy Scouts of America has become a hate group. It should be
>>>>>> allowed to wither and die through lack of support.
>>>>>
>>>>> Like!
>>>>>
>>>> When I donate to The United Way I specify that the money is not to be
>>>> used to support BSA.
>>>
>>> There is a vast difference between hating queers and refusing to accept
>>> them as members in organizations when they disagree with the principles
>>> and would insist on change.
>>
>> Really? So, what would justify excluding "queers" from scouting?
>> Concern that they are an abomination in the eyes of God? Fear that they
>> are going to rape little boys? Arbitrary meanness? They all sound pretty
>> hateful to me.
>>
>The BSA also excludes atheists. The problem is that the BSA has
>mutated into a fundamentalist Christian organization.
excluded? They exclude themselves by refusing to comply with the
membership requirements. Whether you agree with the principles is
moot.
BSA requires a Duty to God. That God is not defined and the duties are
not taught by BSA. A number of religions support the Scouting
movement, not solely Christian.
You need to spend some time acquainting yourself with facts before you
post your lack of them.
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 18, 2013, 4:36:05 PM1/18/13
to
On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 17:38:58 GMT, rep...@scientology.org
I'm not defending anything - I'm telling you about BSA. I do that
because you are obviously ignorant of the written policy and choose to
lie about it bcause of your personal situation.
Maybe you need to appear before the Supreme Court and state your
views. Oh, I forgot. They already decided.
Hugh
because you are obviously ignorant of the written policy and choose to
lie about it bcause of your personal situation.
Maybe you need to appear before the Supreme Court and state your
views. Oh, I forgot. They already decided.
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 18, 2013, 4:45:22 PM1/18/13
to
On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 09:24:12 -0500, MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid>
wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 12:16:03 +0000, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:18:38 GMT, rep...@scientology.org (Fred^2013.01)
>> wrote:
>>
>>>The national Scouting organization has granted this Scout his Eagle, and
>>>the NSofA religious shits can't say anything about it -- though they're
>>>expected to file civil lawsuit for trademark violation.
>>
>> It's really a pity that they are not intelligent enough to be original and
>> have to copy.
>>
>> Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
>
>That's why the scouting alternatives don't imitate the anti-gay,
>anti-atheism policies of the BSA.
By what Fred said some organization "has granted this Scout his
Eagle". How much imitation do you need? If BSA granted the Eagle who
violated the trademark?
If I choose not to stick my hands in the fire, does that mean I am
anti-fire? The fact that one is for something does not mean he is
against something. It means he has preferences.
If you prefer a man does that mean you hate women?
wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 12:16:03 +0000, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:18:38 GMT, rep...@scientology.org (Fred^2013.01)
>> wrote:
>>
>>>The national Scouting organization has granted this Scout his Eagle, and
>>>the NSofA religious shits can't say anything about it -- though they're
>>>expected to file civil lawsuit for trademark violation.
>>
>> It's really a pity that they are not intelligent enough to be original and
>> have to copy.
>>
>> Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
>
>That's why the scouting alternatives don't imitate the anti-gay,
>anti-atheism policies of the BSA.
Eagle". How much imitation do you need? If BSA granted the Eagle who
violated the trademark?
If I choose not to stick my hands in the fire, does that mean I am
anti-fire? The fact that one is for something does not mean he is
against something. It means he has preferences.
If you prefer a man does that mean you hate women?
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 18, 2013, 4:54:54 PM1/18/13
to
On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 17:40:10 GMT, rep...@scientology.org
What you said is hate, not anything I said. You gave up too quick,
boy.
(Fred^2013.01) wrote:
>Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
>>On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:18:38 GMT, rep...@scientology.org
>>(Fred^2013.01) wrote:
>>>The national Scouting organization has granted this Scout his Eagle,
>>>and the NSofA religious shits can't say anything about it -- though
>>>they're expected to file civil lawsuit for trademark violation.
>>It's really a pity that they are not intelligent enough to be original
>>and have to copy. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
>
>That's because you're an idiot Christian hate monger. You have no
>idea what the National Scounting organization is because you're an
>insane hate filled Christian.
I see you don't let facts get in the way of your opinions.
>Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
>>On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:18:38 GMT, rep...@scientology.org
>>(Fred^2013.01) wrote:
>>>The national Scouting organization has granted this Scout his Eagle,
>>>and the NSofA religious shits can't say anything about it -- though
>>>they're expected to file civil lawsuit for trademark violation.
>>It's really a pity that they are not intelligent enough to be original
>>and have to copy. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
>
>That's because you're an idiot Christian hate monger. You have no
>idea what the National Scounting organization is because you're an
>insane hate filled Christian.
What you said is hate, not anything I said. You gave up too quick,
boy.
Wayne
Jan 18, 2013, 9:42:29 PM1/18/13
to
"Dakota" wrote in message news:kdc2bi$39l$1...@dont-email.me...
On 1/18/2013 8:23 AM, MarkA wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:44:09 +0000, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:40:03 -0600, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/17/2013 11:33 AM, ken wrote:
>>>> On Jan 17, 9:28 am, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Boy Scouts of America has become a hate group. It should be
>>>>> allowed to wither and die through lack of support.
>>>>
>>>> Like!
>>>>
>>> When I donate to The United Way I specify that the money is not to be
>>> used to support BSA.
>>
>> There is a vast difference between hating queers and refusing to accept
>> them as members in organizations when they disagree with the principles
>> and would insist on change.
>
> Really? So, what would justify excluding "queers" from scouting?
> Concern that they are an abomination in the eyes of God? Fear that they
> are going to rape little boys? Arbitrary meanness? They all sound pretty
> hateful to me.
>
# mutated into a fundamentalist Christian organization.
Nope. BSA simply does not have an agenda to push any of the current
fashionable social upheavals.
They focus on other things where the social injustice of the day is
irrelevant.
MarkA
Jan 20, 2013, 11:25:22 AM1/20/13
to
class citizens. They just shouldn't be allowed to vote or date white
women."
The BSA has become of tool of evangelical Christians/Mormons, who promote
discrimination against people based on their sexual orientation and
religion. They have every right to do so, but they are sawing off the
limb they're sitting on. Scouting was once universally revered in the
USA. Now, it is being increasingly recognized as a hate cult.
--
MarkA
If you can read this, you can stop reading now.
Message has been deleted
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 20, 2013, 1:04:13 PM1/20/13
to
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:25:22 -0500, MarkA <som...@somewhere.invalid>
wrote:
>The BSA has become of tool of evangelical Christians/Mormons, who promote
>discrimination against people based on their sexual orientation and
>religion. They have every right to do so, but they are sawing off the
>limb they're sitting on. Scouting was once universally revered in the
>USA. Now, it is being increasingly recognized as a hate cult.
Yes, the people who recognize it as a hate cult are easy to spot in
various hateful activities. They march, occupy, threaten and cry hate
to disguise their own hate. The exception is the Westboro Church which
IS a hate group. The burr under your saddle is that you care what the
BSA thinks and the BSA doesn't care what you think EXCEPT they think
that you are entitled to your opinion and to set your own membership
requirements. But the freedom guaranteed by the Constitution isn't
good enough for you. You hate too much for that, you want to destroy.
Discrimination, WOW. Are you a member of any military organization? Do
you play pro football, basketball, baseball, golf...? Do you go to the
women's rest room? Just a tiny sampling of discrimination. The term
means nothing. I don't get affirmative action - that's discrimination
and I don't care.
You discriminate against people who don't believe as you do. You are
constantly doing it in this thread. You point one finger at BSA and
overlook the three pointing at you when you do.
Hugh
wrote:
>The BSA has become of tool of evangelical Christians/Mormons, who promote
>discrimination against people based on their sexual orientation and
>religion. They have every right to do so, but they are sawing off the
>limb they're sitting on. Scouting was once universally revered in the
>USA. Now, it is being increasingly recognized as a hate cult.
various hateful activities. They march, occupy, threaten and cry hate
to disguise their own hate. The exception is the Westboro Church which
IS a hate group. The burr under your saddle is that you care what the
BSA thinks and the BSA doesn't care what you think EXCEPT they think
that you are entitled to your opinion and to set your own membership
requirements. But the freedom guaranteed by the Constitution isn't
good enough for you. You hate too much for that, you want to destroy.
Discrimination, WOW. Are you a member of any military organization? Do
you play pro football, basketball, baseball, golf...? Do you go to the
women's rest room? Just a tiny sampling of discrimination. The term
means nothing. I don't get affirmative action - that's discrimination
and I don't care.
You discriminate against people who don't believe as you do. You are
constantly doing it in this thread. You point one finger at BSA and
overlook the three pointing at you when you do.
Hugh
Fred^2013.01
Jan 20, 2013, 1:26:55 PM1/20/13
to
Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 09:24:12 -0500, MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid>
>On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 09:24:12 -0500, MarkA <nob...@nowhere.invalid>
>>On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 12:16:03 +0000, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
>>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:18:38 GMT, rep...@scientology.org (Fred^2013.01)
>>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:18:38 GMT, rep...@scientology.org (Fred^2013.01)
>>>>The national Scouting organization has granted this Scout his Eagle, and
>>>>the NSofA religious shits can't say anything about it -- though they're
>>>>expected to file civil lawsuit for trademark violation.
>>> It's really a pity that they are not intelligent enough to be original and
>>> have to copy.
>>> Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
>>That's why the scouting alternatives don't imitate the anti-gay,
>>anti-atheism policies of the BSA.
>By what Fred said some organization "has granted this Scout his
>Eagle". How much imitation do you need? If BSA granted the Eagle who
>violated the trademark?
There are two things here about which I was posting confused messages
>>>>the NSofA religious shits can't say anything about it -- though they're
>>>>expected to file civil lawsuit for trademark violation.
>>> It's really a pity that they are not intelligent enough to be original and
>>> have to copy.
>>> Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
>>That's why the scouting alternatives don't imitate the anti-gay,
>>anti-atheism policies of the BSA.
>By what Fred said some organization "has granted this Scout his
>Eagle". How much imitation do you need? If BSA granted the Eagle who
>violated the trademark?
about. :)
A fairly significant number of organizations have been created to
address the official BSofA's Christanic bigotry and hatred so that
boys who meet and surpass their Eagle requirements yet get denied
their Eagle Award are given the Award that they achieved. One is
called "National Scouting" however there are others that Google
turn up that are considered "alternatives" to the BSofA however all
of them use BSofA Merit Badges and the Eagle Awards that are awarded
to boys are trademarked by the national BSofA club.
At the same time a number of individual BSofA Troops have been increasingly
ignoring their National organization's unfortunate policies and those
that get informed that they are no longer Troops that the BSofA
recognize are also getting lawyer demands from the National BSofA that
the Troops that the BSofA has dropped recogniztion for stop utilizing
the BSofA's trademarks.
What happens is that if trademarks are not protected by the corporate
or individual agency that trademarked them, the substance and the
legal protection of such trademarks eventually get revoked, case law
usually decides the matter in favor of the plaintiff when it is shown
that a trademark has not been activly defended.
So the Christian club has been trying to stop superior alternatives
to the National BSofA organization from utilizing BSofA Merit Badges,
Eagle Awards, terms and trademarks.
Fred^2013.01
Jan 20, 2013, 1:27:52 PM1/20/13
to
Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 17:40:10 GMT, rep...@scientology.org
>(Fred^2013.01) wrote:
>>Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
>>>On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:18:38 GMT, rep...@scientology.org
>>>(Fred^2013.01) wrote:
>>>>The national Scouting organization has granted this Scout his Eagle,
>>>>and the NSofA religious shits can't say anything about it -- though
>>>>they're expected to file civil lawsuit for trademark violation.
>>>It's really a pity that they are not intelligent enough to be original
>>>and have to copy. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
>>That's because you're an idiot Christian hate monger. You have no
>>idea what the National Scounting organization is because you're an
>>insane hate filled Christian.
>I see you don't let facts get in the way of your opinions.
I see you don't understand even the least bit about the subject matter
>On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 17:40:10 GMT, rep...@scientology.org
>(Fred^2013.01) wrote:
>>Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
>>>On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:18:38 GMT, rep...@scientology.org
>>>(Fred^2013.01) wrote:
>>>>The national Scouting organization has granted this Scout his Eagle,
>>>>and the NSofA religious shits can't say anything about it -- though
>>>>they're expected to file civil lawsuit for trademark violation.
>>>It's really a pity that they are not intelligent enough to be original
>>>and have to copy. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
>>That's because you're an idiot Christian hate monger. You have no
>>idea what the National Scounting organization is because you're an
>>insane hate filled Christian.
>I see you don't let facts get in the way of your opinions.
of which you spew on Usenet.
You appear to have a Christianic Republican IQ right up there with
Sarah Palin's. No offense.
Fred^2013.01
Jan 20, 2013, 1:29:52 PM1/20/13
to
"Wayne" <mygarb...@verizon.net> wrote:
> BSA simply does not have an agenda to push any of the current
> fashionable social upheavals.
By which he means the BSofA is going to continue their fundamentalist
> BSA simply does not have an agenda to push any of the current
> fashionable social upheavals.
extremist Christianic hatred dating back to the 13th Century with
zero regard for the superior morality and ethics of the majority of
Christians.
Alan Ferris
Jan 20, 2013, 2:45:44 PM1/20/13
to
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:25:22 -0500, MarkA <som...@somewhere.invalid> wrote:
>The BSA has become of tool of evangelical Christians/Mormons, who promote
>discrimination against people based on their sexual orientation and
>religion. They have every right to do so, but they are sawing off the
>limb they're sitting on. Scouting was once universally revered in the
>USA. Now, it is being increasingly recognized as a hate cult.
It is seen as an embarrassment by the international scouting community.
>discrimination against people based on their sexual orientation and
>religion. They have every right to do so, but they are sawing off the
>limb they're sitting on. Scouting was once universally revered in the
>USA. Now, it is being increasingly recognized as a hate cult.
--
Ferrit
()'.'.'()
( (T) )
( ) . ( )
(")_(")
Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
SERV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWhXGhv-tTo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7bsUttGho8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60mZsohBr3Q
Brian Salter-Duke
Jan 20, 2013, 4:54:13 PM1/20/13
to
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 19:45:44 +0000, Alan Ferris <hairy....@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:25:22 -0500, MarkA <som...@somewhere.invalid> wrote:
>
>>The BSA has become of tool of evangelical Christians/Mormons, who promote
>>discrimination against people based on their sexual orientation and
>>religion. They have every right to do so, but they are sawing off the
>>limb they're sitting on. Scouting was once universally revered in the
>>USA. Now, it is being increasingly recognized as a hate cult.
>
> It is seen as an embarrassment by the international scouting community.
This is certainly the case in some parts of the international scouting
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:25:22 -0500, MarkA <som...@somewhere.invalid> wrote:
>
>>The BSA has become of tool of evangelical Christians/Mormons, who promote
>>discrimination against people based on their sexual orientation and
>>religion. They have every right to do so, but they are sawing off the
>>limb they're sitting on. Scouting was once universally revered in the
>>USA. Now, it is being increasingly recognized as a hate cult.
>
> It is seen as an embarrassment by the international scouting community.
community. The BSA stance is probably supported in Islamic countries,
but in many others the need for Scouting to be more inclusive is high on
the agenda. In the UK for example there has been no exclusion of
homosexual members or leaders for very many years and recently the Scout
Association there on its web site said:-
UK Scouting has launched a survey to ask its members whether an
alternative version of the Scout Promise should be developed for
atheists and those unable to make the existing commitment.
The survey asks whether the revisions mean we'll have to consider
adapting other aspects of Scouting, and in particular whether we should
introduce an alternative version of the Movement's Promise to
accommodate young people and adults who do not have a faith. Doing this
would enable the Movement to increase its diversity and embrace more
communities than ever before.
The link below is split into three lines:-
http://members.scouts.org.uk/newsandviews/module/31/729/
scouting-launches-consultation-on-considering-welcoming
-atheists-as-full-members/cat/428
You can also get to by a link from the wikipedia article on "The Scout
Association".
Scout Association numbers have been growing and I have seen evidence
that it could grow more if more leaders could be found. Membership of
the BSA is, I believe, falling.
From the other side of the world, I see cracks beginning to appear in
the BSA. Two BSA board members have indicated that they oppose exclusion
on the grounds of homosexuality. Full support for homosexuals up to gay
marriage is growing in the USA and is already high. Several states have
now approved it. The BSA will have to change or there will be a
rebellion leading to a massive split.
Brian.
PS. It is good to rec.scouting.issues a little more active, and, Hugh, it is
good to see you are still going strong.
> --
> Ferrit
>
> ()'.'.'()
> ( (T) )
> ( ) . ( )
> (")_(")
> Atheist #1211
> EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
>
> SERV:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWhXGhv-tTo
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7bsUttGho8
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60mZsohBr3Q
>
>
>
Brian Salter-Duke Melbourne, Australia
My real address is b_duke(AT)bigpond(DOT)net(DOT)au
Use this for reply or followup
Scouting: Tolerant, Pluralistic and Open to all young people.
Father Haskell
Jan 20, 2013, 5:00:50 PM1/20/13
to
On Jan 16, 9:11 pm, "Leroy N. Soetoro" <leroysoet...@usurper.org>
wrote:
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/us/california-gay-eagle-
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/20/opinion/scoutings-gay-founder.html?_r=0
wrote:
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/us/california-gay-eagle-
> scout/index.html?iref=obinsite
>
> (CNN) -- A gay California Boy Scout's application for Eagle rank was
> rejected by a Scout council, an official with the organization said
> Tuesday.
>
> In response, the Scout's parents pledged to press their son's national
> campaign for gay Scouts to be eligible for Eagle status.
Baden Powell must be turning in his grave.
>
> (CNN) -- A gay California Boy Scout's application for Eagle rank was
> rejected by a Scout council, an official with the organization said
> Tuesday.
>
> In response, the Scout's parents pledged to press their son's national
> campaign for gay Scouts to be eligible for Eagle status.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/20/opinion/scoutings-gay-founder.html?_r=0
Alan Ferris
Jan 20, 2013, 5:23:44 PM1/20/13
to
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 21:54:13 GMT, Brian Salter-Duke <b_d...@bigpond.com.au>
Sadly it has been many years now since I had to give up being a scout leader.
Even then we accepted different beliefs and even atheists, I was one. I was a
junior leader at a Boarding School and we had not problem with the scout who
replaced God with Allah or the one who "accidentally stumbled" and missed god
out :)
Even then we accepted different beliefs and even atheists, I was one. I was a
junior leader at a Boarding School and we had not problem with the scout who
replaced God with Allah or the one who "accidentally stumbled" and missed god
out :)
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 20, 2013, 5:33:12 PM1/20/13
to
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 18:29:52 GMT, rep...@scientology.org
but I see no signs so far that you are worth my effort.
Hugh
(Fred^2013.01) wrote:
>"Wayne" <mygarb...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> BSA simply does not have an agenda to push any of the current
>> fashionable social upheavals.
>
>By which he means the BSofA is going to continue their fundamentalist
>extremist Christianic hatred dating back to the 13th Century with
>zero regard for the superior morality and ethics of the majority of
>Christians.
Hating requires considerable effort. I see that you make the effort
>"Wayne" <mygarb...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> BSA simply does not have an agenda to push any of the current
>> fashionable social upheavals.
>
>By which he means the BSofA is going to continue their fundamentalist
>extremist Christianic hatred dating back to the 13th Century with
>zero regard for the superior morality and ethics of the majority of
>Christians.
but I see no signs so far that you are worth my effort.
Hugh
Dakota
Jan 20, 2013, 5:43:45 PM1/20/13
to
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 20, 2013, 5:51:35 PM1/20/13
to
>PS. It is good to rec.scouting.issues a little more active,
I have mixed emotions about that. I don't actually see an issue - I
note that some people have a problem with BSA. The hatred I see is all
with them and their delusions about BSA. At the same time I don't care
for me, tooism.
The hatred of BSA hets for queers disappeared a long time ago. The
earlier opinions expressed here are from those who probably don't even
know a Scout much less awareness of the program. The parroting of
their verbiage has been the same for years. The hatred they express
makes it easy for organizations like the Westboro Church to hate them
- action, reaction.
>and, Hugh, it is
>good to see you are still going strong.
much want to disagree with but I have to. I suppose it's like - other
than THAT Mrs. Lincoln might have enjoyed the play.
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 20, 2013, 5:54:20 PM1/20/13
to
>On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:25:22 -0500, MarkA <som...@somewhere.invalid> wrote:
>
>>The BSA has become of tool of evangelical Christians/Mormons, who promote
>>discrimination against people based on their sexual orientation and
>>religion. They have every right to do so, but they are sawing off the
>>limb they're sitting on. Scouting was once universally revered in the
>>USA. Now, it is being increasingly recognized as a hate cult.
>
>It is seen as an embarrassment by the international scouting community.
>--
>Ferrit
You appear to think that is some sort of problem.
>
>>The BSA has become of tool of evangelical Christians/Mormons, who promote
>>discrimination against people based on their sexual orientation and
>>religion. They have every right to do so, but they are sawing off the
>>limb they're sitting on. Scouting was once universally revered in the
>>USA. Now, it is being increasingly recognized as a hate cult.
>
>It is seen as an embarrassment by the international scouting community.
>--
>Ferrit
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 20, 2013, 6:00:52 PM1/20/13
to
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 22:23:44 +0000, Alan Ferris
<hairy....@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> we had not problem with the scout who
>replaced God with Allah
I've been at Scout camp when a Muslim was the foreign exchange
<hairy....@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> we had not problem with the scout who
>replaced God with Allah
student. He had a prayer rug in his tent. So exactly who has a problem
with that?
BSA does not define God as the Christian God. He could be Allah or
Gitchymanitou. He is a host of names in the English language.
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 20, 2013, 6:09:13 PM1/20/13
to
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 18:27:52 GMT, rep...@scientology.org
blind.
>You appear to have a Christianic Republican IQ right up there with
>Sarah Palin's. No offense.
How I appear to you is not the same as I appear to someone who
matters.
Hugh
(Fred^2013.01) wrote:
>I see you don't understand even the least bit about the subject matter
>of which you spew on Usenet.
I didn't know the blind could see - and you obviously are factually
>I see you don't understand even the least bit about the subject matter
>of which you spew on Usenet.
blind.
>You appear to have a Christianic Republican IQ right up there with
>Sarah Palin's. No offense.
matters.
Hugh
Brian Salter-Duke
Jan 20, 2013, 10:16:12 PM1/20/13
to
but this ignores the fact that from very early on, Scouting was an
international movement that set a high regard for the Brotherhood of
Scouting across the world. To me that aspect of scouting was one of its
greatest attractions. I meet Scouts from many countries over the years
and was priviliged to attend the World Rover Moot that was part of the
50th year of Scouting alongside the World Jamboree in 1957. The old law
included "A scout is a brother to every other Scout". If Scouting in one
country is very much out of line to Scouting in another country,
problems may arise when Scouts meet. Even within the USA, I think the
BSA has a major problem with the Girls Scouts because of this issue.
Brian.
> Hugh
Mitchell Holman
Jan 20, 2013, 10:34:35 PM1/20/13
to
Brian Salter-Duke <b_d...@bigpond.com.au> wrote in
news:0q2Ls.2734$1k5...@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com:
For what it is worth memberhip in the BSA is
tumbling - badly. In fact the BSA leadership is
in crisis mode trying keep the organization in
one piece.
Can the Boy Scouts Get their Groove Back?
July 17 2012
Forbes
In 1973, its peak, the BSA numbered close to five
million boys. Over the next few decades, it lost
close to half that amount, and membership continues
to decline to this day.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/giovannirodriguez/2012/07/17/1486/
news:0q2Ls.2734$1k5...@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com:
tumbling - badly. In fact the BSA leadership is
in crisis mode trying keep the organization in
one piece.
Can the Boy Scouts Get their Groove Back?
July 17 2012
Forbes
In 1973, its peak, the BSA numbered close to five
million boys. Over the next few decades, it lost
close to half that amount, and membership continues
to decline to this day.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/giovannirodriguez/2012/07/17/1486/
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 21, 2013, 12:02:29 AM1/21/13
to
On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 03:16:12 GMT, Brian Salter-Duke
<b_d...@bigpond.com.au> wrote:
>For a long time, you have seen what the BSA does as purely a US matter,
>but this ignores the fact that from very early on, Scouting was an
>international movement that set a high regard for the Brotherhood of
>Scouting across the world. To me that aspect of scouting was one of its
>greatest attractions.
That was fine until people started pushing a private personal agenda.
<b_d...@bigpond.com.au> wrote:
>For a long time, you have seen what the BSA does as purely a US matter,
>but this ignores the fact that from very early on, Scouting was an
>international movement that set a high regard for the Brotherhood of
>Scouting across the world. To me that aspect of scouting was one of its
>greatest attractions.
The world has changed, BSA has not.
>If Scouting in one
>country is very much out of line to Scouting in another country,
>problems may arise when Scouts meet.
get out of sync.
>Even within the USA, I think the
>BSA has a major problem with the Girls Scouts because of this issue.
welcome to go their way alone.
The principles have changed in much of the world including much of the
US. That doesn't mean that all of us will sacrifice our principles and
bow to what neither Christians nor Muslims believe.
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 21, 2013, 12:14:23 AM1/21/13
to
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 21:34:35 -0600, Mitchell Holman
<nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>In 1973, its peak, the BSA numbered close to five
>million boys. Over the next few decades, it lost
>close to half that amount, and membership continues
>to decline to this day.
>
>http://www.forbes.com/sites/giovannirodriguez/2012/07/17/1486/
That is true for many old organizations. Two of my grandsons are not
<nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>In 1973, its peak, the BSA numbered close to five
>million boys. Over the next few decades, it lost
>close to half that amount, and membership continues
>to decline to this day.
>
>http://www.forbes.com/sites/giovannirodriguez/2012/07/17/1486/
Scouts because football, baseball, basketball, soccer, skiing and
homework gets in the way.
That's the case for many young, responsible people with loving, moral
parents and grandparents.
If the naysayers thought they were not missing anything they wouldn't
be raising such a ruckus about not qualifying for membership. They are
the ones with the problem, not the BSA.
HUgh
Alan Ferris
Jan 21, 2013, 5:40:55 AM1/21/13
to
On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 03:16:12 GMT, Brian Salter-Duke <b_d...@bigpond.com.au>
over the world. A time when nobody cared about peoples religion or sexual
orientation.
Being a scout was about caring for each other and for the wider society. Now
it seems the BSA wishes to alienate scouts from parts of society.
Jeanne Douglas
Jan 21, 2013, 7:14:58 AM1/21/13
to
In article <4m6qf8t773poikc11...@4ax.com>,
Yes, that's it. You've defined the BSA problem perfectly.
"It seems the BSA wishes to alienate scouts from parts of society."
And that's rather obscene, I would say.
--
JD
"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden
"It seems the BSA wishes to alienate scouts from parts of society."
And that's rather obscene, I would say.
--
JD
"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden
Mitchell Holman
Jan 21, 2013, 8:31:25 AM1/21/13
to
Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in news:50fccbea.50762906
@news.eternal-september.org:
-----------------------------
When I was in scouting back in the 60's I
thought it would nice to be involved when I
grew and had sons. Now I want nothing to do
with the group even tho I live barely a mile
from its national headquarters.
@news.eternal-september.org:
When I was in scouting back in the 60's I
thought it would nice to be involved when I
grew and had sons. Now I want nothing to do
with the group even tho I live barely a mile
from its national headquarters.
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 21, 2013, 10:01:53 AM1/21/13
to
On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 07:31:25 -0600, Mitchell Holman
<nomailverizon.net> wrote:
> When I was in scouting back in the 60's I
>thought it would nice to be involved when I
>grew and had sons. Now I want nothing to do
>with the group even tho I live barely a mile
>from its national headquarters.
That's the way it should be. If you don't like what they do, don't
<nomailverizon.net> wrote:
> When I was in scouting back in the 60's I
>thought it would nice to be involved when I
>grew and had sons. Now I want nothing to do
>with the group even tho I live barely a mile
>from its national headquarters.
join.
The difference between most of the people posting here and me is that
they are filled with hate - I am not. And they are so blind they can't
see it.
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 21, 2013, 10:10:55 AM1/21/13
to
On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 10:40:55 +0000, Alan Ferris
What has changed? Queers and atheists were not qualified to be BSA
members back in the 30s to my certain knowledge. In fact they fared a
LOT worse back then.
members back in the 30s to my certain knowledge. In fact they fared a
LOT worse back then.
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 21, 2013, 10:18:54 AM1/21/13
to
On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 04:14:58 -0800, Jeanne Douglas
<hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>Yes, that's it. You've defined the BSA problem perfectly.
>
>"It seems the BSA wishes to alienate scouts from parts of society."
>
>And that's rather obscene, I would say.
On second thought you may be right.
<hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>Yes, that's it. You've defined the BSA problem perfectly.
>
>"It seems the BSA wishes to alienate scouts from parts of society."
>
>And that's rather obscene, I would say.
I also want to alienate myself from draft dodgers, liberals, criminals
and people who don't bathe.
I guess nothing is too bad for you.
Hugh
Mitchell Holman
Jan 21, 2013, 10:43:28 AM1/21/13
to
Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in news:50fd5682.1601718
@news.eternal-september.org:
BSA serves as an example of conservatism.
Unwilling to change, stuck in the past, thinking
the world will someday renounce fifty years of
progress and embrace them again. No wonder they
have been declining for decades and doubltless
keep declining.
Will the last scout to leave the group please
put out the campfire?
@news.eternal-september.org:
Unwilling to change, stuck in the past, thinking
the world will someday renounce fifty years of
progress and embrace them again. No wonder they
have been declining for decades and doubltless
keep declining.
Will the last scout to leave the group please
put out the campfire?
Father Haskell
Jan 21, 2013, 2:09:09 PM1/21/13
to
Apparently, the Hitlerjugend were a "jolly good crowd of chaps."
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 21, 2013, 2:16:20 PM1/21/13
to
On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:43:28 -0600, Mitchell Holman
<nomailverizon.net> wrote:
> BSA serves as an example of conservatism.
>Unwilling to change, stuck in the past,
...back when we were the greatest country ever to exist.
<nomailverizon.net> wrote:
> BSA serves as an example of conservatism.
>Unwilling to change, stuck in the past,
>thinking
>the world will someday renounce fifty years of
>progress and embrace them again. No wonder they
>have been declining for decades and doubltless
>keep declining.
"progress". Since 1945 we can't even win a war and China owns us.
> Will the last scout to leave the group please
>put out the campfire?
- and REAL Eagles, not the fake ones from the NAQ. Plus at least 400
more Eagles whose advancement I have signed.
Hugh
Mitchell Holman
Jan 21, 2013, 3:27:38 PM1/21/13
to
Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in news:50fd8fe9.16296875
@news.eternal-september.org:
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:43:28 -0600, Mitchell Holman
> <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>
>> BSA serves as an example of conservatism.
>>Unwilling to change, stuck in the past,
>
> ...back when we were the greatest country ever to exist.
>
The last country to get rid of slavery cannot
be call the greatest country at anything.
>>thinking
>>the world will someday renounce fifty years of
>>progress and embrace them again. No wonder they
>>have been declining for decades and doubltless
>>keep declining.
>
> That decline parallels the decline of this country as a result of that
> "progress". Since 1945 we can't even win a war and China owns us.
What wars do you think the US should have "won"?
>
>> Will the last scout to leave the group please
>>put out the campfire?
>
> It will be awhile - there are three generations of Eagles in my family
> - and REAL Eagles, not the fake ones from the NAQ. Plus at least 400
> more Eagles whose advancement I have signed.
Bully for you.
In the meantime the BSA will continue to shrink
to the point of meaninglessness.
@news.eternal-september.org:
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:43:28 -0600, Mitchell Holman
> <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>
>> BSA serves as an example of conservatism.
>>Unwilling to change, stuck in the past,
>
> ...back when we were the greatest country ever to exist.
>
be call the greatest country at anything.
>>thinking
>>the world will someday renounce fifty years of
>>progress and embrace them again. No wonder they
>>have been declining for decades and doubltless
>>keep declining.
>
> That decline parallels the decline of this country as a result of that
> "progress". Since 1945 we can't even win a war and China owns us.
>
>> Will the last scout to leave the group please
>>put out the campfire?
>
> It will be awhile - there are three generations of Eagles in my family
> - and REAL Eagles, not the fake ones from the NAQ. Plus at least 400
> more Eagles whose advancement I have signed.
In the meantime the BSA will continue to shrink
to the point of meaninglessness.
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 21, 2013, 4:43:54 PM1/21/13
to
On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 14:27:38 -0600, Mitchell Holman
disagree with you. If not for us they wouldn't be here to agree with
you.
>>>thinking
>>>the world will someday renounce fifty years of
>>>progress and embrace them again. No wonder they
>>>have been declining for decades and doubltless
>>>keep declining.
>>
>> That decline parallels the decline of this country as a result of that
>> "progress". Since 1945 we can't even win a war and China owns us.
> What wars do you think the US should have "won"?
Korea and Nam come to mind since the opposing countries still exist.
lot of noise doesn't make one meaningful.
<nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in news:50fd8fe9.16296875
>@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:43:28 -0600, Mitchell Holman
>> <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> BSA serves as an example of conservatism.
>>>Unwilling to change, stuck in the past,
>>
>> ...back when we were the greatest country ever to exist.
> The last country to get rid of slavery cannot
>be call the greatest country at anything.
Those who remember our saving the world in WWi and WWII would probably
>Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in news:50fd8fe9.16296875
>@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:43:28 -0600, Mitchell Holman
>> <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> BSA serves as an example of conservatism.
>>>Unwilling to change, stuck in the past,
>>
>> ...back when we were the greatest country ever to exist.
> The last country to get rid of slavery cannot
>be call the greatest country at anything.
disagree with you. If not for us they wouldn't be here to agree with
you.
>>>thinking
>>>the world will someday renounce fifty years of
>>>progress and embrace them again. No wonder they
>>>have been declining for decades and doubltless
>>>keep declining.
>>
>> That decline parallels the decline of this country as a result of that
>> "progress". Since 1945 we can't even win a war and China owns us.
> What wars do you think the US should have "won"?
>
>>> Will the last scout to leave the group please
>>>put out the campfire?
>>
>> It will be awhile - there are three generations of Eagles in my family
>> - and REAL Eagles, not the fake ones from the NAQ. Plus at least 400
>> more Eagles whose advancement I have signed.
>
>
> Bully for you.
>
> In the meantime the BSA will continue to shrink
>to the point of meaninglessness.
At about the same acceleration as the rest of the country. Making a
>>> Will the last scout to leave the group please
>>>put out the campfire?
>>
>> It will be awhile - there are three generations of Eagles in my family
>> - and REAL Eagles, not the fake ones from the NAQ. Plus at least 400
>> more Eagles whose advancement I have signed.
>
>
> Bully for you.
>
> In the meantime the BSA will continue to shrink
>to the point of meaninglessness.
lot of noise doesn't make one meaningful.
Free Lunch
Jan 21, 2013, 4:55:39 PM1/21/13
to
On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:43:54 GMT, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
wrote in alt.atheism:
>On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 14:27:38 -0600, Mitchell Holman
><nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in news:50fd8fe9.16296875
>>@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:43:28 -0600, Mitchell Holman
>>> <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> BSA serves as an example of conservatism.
>>>>Unwilling to change, stuck in the past,
>>>
>>> ...back when we were the greatest country ever to exist.
>
>> The last country to get rid of slavery cannot
>>be call the greatest country at anything.
>
>Those who remember our saving the world in WWi and WWII would probably
>disagree with you. If not for us they wouldn't be here to agree with
>you.
Are you speaking of the country that stayed out of both wars for years
because it liked making money on it and not getting its hands dirty? The
United States finally did the right thing, but we were shamefully late
to both. The Soviets saved "the world" in WWII. We came in to declare
victory.
>>>>thinking
>>>>the world will someday renounce fifty years of
>>>>progress and embrace them again. No wonder they
>>>>have been declining for decades and doubltless
>>>>keep declining.
>>>
>>> That decline parallels the decline of this country as a result of that
>>> "progress". Since 1945 we can't even win a war and China owns us.
>
>> What wars do you think the US should have "won"?
>
>Korea and Nam come to mind since the opposing countries still exist.
What would winning have been? Remember that South Vietnam had the
corrupt unwanted government and North Vietnam the national hero. Korea
was a bit different, but no one wanted a war with China, which would
have been a result of "winning" in Korea. Our victories in Iraq have
been pretty hollow. Our foolishness in Iran in the '50s is still costing
us.
wrote in alt.atheism:
>On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 14:27:38 -0600, Mitchell Holman
><nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in news:50fd8fe9.16296875
>>@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:43:28 -0600, Mitchell Holman
>>> <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> BSA serves as an example of conservatism.
>>>>Unwilling to change, stuck in the past,
>>>
>>> ...back when we were the greatest country ever to exist.
>
>> The last country to get rid of slavery cannot
>>be call the greatest country at anything.
>
>Those who remember our saving the world in WWi and WWII would probably
>disagree with you. If not for us they wouldn't be here to agree with
>you.
because it liked making money on it and not getting its hands dirty? The
United States finally did the right thing, but we were shamefully late
to both. The Soviets saved "the world" in WWII. We came in to declare
victory.
>>>>thinking
>>>>the world will someday renounce fifty years of
>>>>progress and embrace them again. No wonder they
>>>>have been declining for decades and doubltless
>>>>keep declining.
>>>
>>> That decline parallels the decline of this country as a result of that
>>> "progress". Since 1945 we can't even win a war and China owns us.
>
>> What wars do you think the US should have "won"?
>
>Korea and Nam come to mind since the opposing countries still exist.
corrupt unwanted government and North Vietnam the national hero. Korea
was a bit different, but no one wanted a war with China, which would
have been a result of "winning" in Korea. Our victories in Iraq have
been pretty hollow. Our foolishness in Iran in the '50s is still costing
us.
Mitchell Holman
Jan 21, 2013, 10:11:23 PM1/21/13
to
Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in news:50fdb51a.25898796
"saved the world" in either war. The late entry
in both cases was reduced to a mopping up operation.
>
>>>>thinking
>>>>the world will someday renounce fifty years of
>>>>progress and embrace them again. No wonder they
>>>>have been declining for decades and doubltless
>>>>keep declining.
>>>
>>> That decline parallels the decline of this country as a result of
that
>>> "progress". Since 1945 we can't even win a war and China owns us.
>
>> What wars do you think the US should have "won"?
>
> Korea and Nam come to mind since the opposing countries still exist.
Korea was a UN operation, and in any case
it WAS "won". South Korea is again a free country.
Nam was never a US responsibility, we had no
business interferring there. If Eisenhower had not
muddled in and cancelled the 1956 elections the
whole war would never have happened.
"President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page
372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any
free election in Vietnam in 1956. This is certainly why the
U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva
Convention of 1954 required it."
http://www.chss.montclair.edu/English/furr/ike1.html
@news.eternal-september.org:
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 14:27:38 -0600, Mitchell Holman
> <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in news:50fd8fe9.16296875
>>@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:43:28 -0600, Mitchell Holman
>>> <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> BSA serves as an example of conservatism.
>>>>Unwilling to change, stuck in the past,
>>>
>>> ...back when we were the greatest country ever to exist.
>
>> The last country to get rid of slavery cannot
>>be call the greatest country at anything.
>
> Those who remember our saving the world in WWi and WWII would probably
> disagree with you. If not for us they wouldn't be here to agree with
> you.
The Europeans certainly don't think America
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 14:27:38 -0600, Mitchell Holman
> <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in news:50fd8fe9.16296875
>>@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:43:28 -0600, Mitchell Holman
>>> <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> BSA serves as an example of conservatism.
>>>>Unwilling to change, stuck in the past,
>>>
>>> ...back when we were the greatest country ever to exist.
>
>> The last country to get rid of slavery cannot
>>be call the greatest country at anything.
>
> Those who remember our saving the world in WWi and WWII would probably
> disagree with you. If not for us they wouldn't be here to agree with
> you.
"saved the world" in either war. The late entry
in both cases was reduced to a mopping up operation.
>
>>>>thinking
>>>>the world will someday renounce fifty years of
>>>>progress and embrace them again. No wonder they
>>>>have been declining for decades and doubltless
>>>>keep declining.
>>>
>>> That decline parallels the decline of this country as a result of
that
>>> "progress". Since 1945 we can't even win a war and China owns us.
>
>> What wars do you think the US should have "won"?
>
> Korea and Nam come to mind since the opposing countries still exist.
it WAS "won". South Korea is again a free country.
Nam was never a US responsibility, we had no
business interferring there. If Eisenhower had not
muddled in and cancelled the 1956 elections the
whole war would never have happened.
"President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page
372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any
free election in Vietnam in 1956. This is certainly why the
U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva
Convention of 1954 required it."
http://www.chss.montclair.edu/English/furr/ike1.html
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 22, 2013, 9:05:33 AM1/22/13
to
On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:55:39 -0600, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
their own problems - they obviously were not. We enterted when we were
"invited in" on 7 Dec 1941.
As for Russia, Gen Patton had to be held back from taking Berlin long
before they got there.
You sound like a draft dodger.
>>> What wars do you think the US should have "won"?
>>
>>Korea and Nam come to mind since the opposing countries still exist.
>
>What would winning have been?
A helluva lot better than losing - N. Korea is still winning and Nam
tore this country apart forever.
>Remember that South Vietnam had the
>corrupt unwanted government and North Vietnam the national hero. Korea
>was a bit different, but no one wanted a war with China, which would
>have been a result of "winning" in Korea. Our victories in Iraq have
>been pretty hollow. Our foolishness in Iran in the '50s is still costing
>us.
I don't know where you were in 1945-46. I was in the Pacific and Japan
part of each year.
Hugh
wrote:
>>Those who remember our saving the world in WWi and WWII would probably
>>disagree with you. If not for us they wouldn't be here to agree with
>>you.
>
>Are you speaking of the country that stayed out of both wars for years
>because it liked making money on it and not getting its hands dirty? The
>United States finally did the right thing, but we were shamefully late
>to both. The Soviets saved "the world" in WWII. We came in to declare
>victory.
I guess we thought other countries were man enough to take care of
>>disagree with you. If not for us they wouldn't be here to agree with
>>you.
>
>Are you speaking of the country that stayed out of both wars for years
>because it liked making money on it and not getting its hands dirty? The
>United States finally did the right thing, but we were shamefully late
>to both. The Soviets saved "the world" in WWII. We came in to declare
>victory.
their own problems - they obviously were not. We enterted when we were
"invited in" on 7 Dec 1941.
As for Russia, Gen Patton had to be held back from taking Berlin long
before they got there.
You sound like a draft dodger.
>>> What wars do you think the US should have "won"?
>>
>>Korea and Nam come to mind since the opposing countries still exist.
>
>What would winning have been?
tore this country apart forever.
>Remember that South Vietnam had the
>corrupt unwanted government and North Vietnam the national hero. Korea
>was a bit different, but no one wanted a war with China, which would
>have been a result of "winning" in Korea. Our victories in Iraq have
>been pretty hollow. Our foolishness in Iran in the '50s is still costing
>us.
part of each year.
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 22, 2013, 9:22:22 AM1/22/13
to
On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:11:23 -0600, Mitchell Holman
<nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in news:50fdb51a.25898796
>@news.eternal-september.org:
>> Those who remember our saving the world in WWi and WWII would probably
>> disagree with you. If not for us they wouldn't be here to agree with
>> you.
> The Europeans certainly don't think America
>"saved the world" in either war. The late entry
>in both cases was reduced to a mopping up operation.
You and your Euros would do well at stand up comedy. There was no
Europe in Dec 1941. There was Germany, Italy, Dunkirk, and V-2s.
You sound like the guy who said. "I know you saved my life yesterday
but what have you done for me today!"
>> Korea and Nam come to mind since the opposing countries still exist.
> Korea was a UN operation, and in any case
>it WAS "won". South Korea is again a free country.
And because we let the people with lace on their shorts run the
operation N. Kores is still telling the world to kiss where the sun
don't shine.
> Nam was never a US responsibility, we had no
>business interferring there. If Eisenhower had not
>muddled in and cancelled the 1956 elections the
>whole war would never have happened.
Korea wasn't, Nam wasn't, Iraq wasn't and Europe and Asia weren't
until Dec 1941.
>"President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page
>372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any
>free election in Vietnam in 1956. This is certainly why the
>U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva
>Convention of 1954 required it."
>
>http://www.chss.montclair.edu/English/furr/ike1.html
My point is that, if we get involved we need to win. Japan got the
message.
Hugh
<nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in news:50fdb51a.25898796
>@news.eternal-september.org:
>> Those who remember our saving the world in WWi and WWII would probably
>> disagree with you. If not for us they wouldn't be here to agree with
>> you.
> The Europeans certainly don't think America
>"saved the world" in either war. The late entry
>in both cases was reduced to a mopping up operation.
Europe in Dec 1941. There was Germany, Italy, Dunkirk, and V-2s.
You sound like the guy who said. "I know you saved my life yesterday
but what have you done for me today!"
>> Korea and Nam come to mind since the opposing countries still exist.
> Korea was a UN operation, and in any case
>it WAS "won". South Korea is again a free country.
operation N. Kores is still telling the world to kiss where the sun
don't shine.
> Nam was never a US responsibility, we had no
>business interferring there. If Eisenhower had not
>muddled in and cancelled the 1956 elections the
>whole war would never have happened.
until Dec 1941.
>"President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page
>372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any
>free election in Vietnam in 1956. This is certainly why the
>U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva
>Convention of 1954 required it."
>
>http://www.chss.montclair.edu/English/furr/ike1.html
message.
Hugh
walksalone
Jan 22, 2013, 10:39:32 AM1/22/13
to
Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in news:50fe9a4c.733250
@news.eternal-september.org:
Followups set to participants groups.
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:55:39 -0600, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us>
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:43:54 GMT, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
>>wrote in alt.atheism:
>
>>>Those who remember our saving the world in WWi and WWII would probably
>>>disagree with you. If not for us they wouldn't be here to agree with
>>>you.
>>
>>Are you speaking of the country that stayed out of both wars for years
>>because it liked making money on it and not getting its hands dirty? The
>>United States finally did the right thing, but we were shamefully late
>>to both. The Soviets saved "the world" in WWII. We came in to declare
>>victory.
>
> I guess we thought other countries were man enough to take care of
> their own problems - they obviously were not. We enterted when we were
> "invited in" on 7 Dec 1941.
According to some sources, not verified by me, we were not invited in so
much as shoved in. Seems FDR was an anglphile, & it wa the only way to get
in WWII. Not to mention, Japan did not have much choice, the US had
invoked an oil embargo & wasn't backing off.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
> As for Russia, Gen Patton had to be held back from taking Berlin long
> before they got there.
It was a coalition, & that means no one gets all the glory themselves. But
then, that isn't taught much anymore.
> You sound like a draft dodger.
& you sound like the typical crationist/fanatic/ioll informed.
BTW, the US doesn't have a draft anymore, & that started with JFK.
>>>> What wars do you think the US should have "won"?
>>>Korea and Nam come to mind since the opposing countries still exist.
IOW, take no prisoners. Nam was a no win situation. Wars fought by
politicians usually are.
Korea, apparently history is not an interst of yours.
>>What would winning have been?
> A helluva lot better than losing - N. Korea is still winning and Nam
> tore this country apart forever.
No, politicians & a growing awareness that the USA was not the moral
compass of the world did that. Well, & the rich peoples sons dodging the
draft didn't help.
>>Remember that South Vietnam had the
>>corrupt unwanted government and North Vietnam the national hero. Korea
>>was a bit different, but no one wanted a war with China, which would
>>have been a result of "winning" in Korea. Our victories in Iraq have
>>been pretty hollow. Our foolishness in Iran in the '50s is still costing
>>us.
>
> I don't know where you were in 1945-46. I was in the Pacific and Japan
> part of each year.
Condolesces. I would have seen my second birthday. But pappy was there in
Europe, belly gunner in a P-61 Black Widow. Not exactly a good position to
make it in.
Myself, I hold [found out by accident] the Vietmese cross of Gallantry,
along with three years in Nam. You are not the only combat vet on usenet.
Mayhap one of the more confused & one who doesn't understand that societies
evolve, & not always the way we want.
> Hugh
walksalone who has to wondcer, all the newsgroups to throw a hissy fit?
The door of a bigoted mind opens outwards so that the only result of the
pressure of facts upon it is to close it more snugly.
-Ogden Nash, author (1902-1971)
@news.eternal-september.org:
Followups set to participants groups.
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:55:39 -0600, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us>
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:43:54 GMT, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
>>wrote in alt.atheism:
>
>>>Those who remember our saving the world in WWi and WWII would probably
>>>disagree with you. If not for us they wouldn't be here to agree with
>>>you.
>>
>>Are you speaking of the country that stayed out of both wars for years
>>because it liked making money on it and not getting its hands dirty? The
>>United States finally did the right thing, but we were shamefully late
>>to both. The Soviets saved "the world" in WWII. We came in to declare
>>victory.
>
> I guess we thought other countries were man enough to take care of
> their own problems - they obviously were not. We enterted when we were
> "invited in" on 7 Dec 1941.
much as shoved in. Seems FDR was an anglphile, & it wa the only way to get
in WWII. Not to mention, Japan did not have much choice, the US had
invoked an oil embargo & wasn't backing off.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
> As for Russia, Gen Patton had to be held back from taking Berlin long
> before they got there.
then, that isn't taught much anymore.
> You sound like a draft dodger.
BTW, the US doesn't have a draft anymore, & that started with JFK.
>>>> What wars do you think the US should have "won"?
>>>Korea and Nam come to mind since the opposing countries still exist.
politicians usually are.
Korea, apparently history is not an interst of yours.
>>What would winning have been?
> A helluva lot better than losing - N. Korea is still winning and Nam
> tore this country apart forever.
compass of the world did that. Well, & the rich peoples sons dodging the
draft didn't help.
>>Remember that South Vietnam had the
>>corrupt unwanted government and North Vietnam the national hero. Korea
>>was a bit different, but no one wanted a war with China, which would
>>have been a result of "winning" in Korea. Our victories in Iraq have
>>been pretty hollow. Our foolishness in Iran in the '50s is still costing
>>us.
>
> I don't know where you were in 1945-46. I was in the Pacific and Japan
> part of each year.
Europe, belly gunner in a P-61 Black Widow. Not exactly a good position to
make it in.
Myself, I hold [found out by accident] the Vietmese cross of Gallantry,
along with three years in Nam. You are not the only combat vet on usenet.
Mayhap one of the more confused & one who doesn't understand that societies
evolve, & not always the way we want.
> Hugh
walksalone who has to wondcer, all the newsgroups to throw a hissy fit?
The door of a bigoted mind opens outwards so that the only result of the
pressure of facts upon it is to close it more snugly.
-Ogden Nash, author (1902-1971)
Usenet Legends ªºªandca®ole ----->♫♫♫♫
Jan 22, 2013, 11:08:22 AM1/22/13
to
Sullivan) wrote:
> >On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 17:38:58 GMT, repo...@scientology.org
> >(Fred^2013.01) wrote:
>
> >>Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
> >>>On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:40:03 -0600, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com>
> >>Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
> >>>On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:40:03 -0600, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com>
> >>>>On 1/17/2013 11:33 AM, ken wrote:
> >>>>> On Jan 17, 9:28 am, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> The Boy Scouts of America has become a hate group. It should be
> >>>>>> allowed to wither and die through lack of support.
> >>>>> Like!
> >>>>When I donate to The United Way I specify that the money is not to be
> >>>>used to support BSA.
> >>>There is a vast difference between hating queers and refusing to
> >>>accept them as members in organizations when they disagree with the
> >>>principles and would insist on change.
>
> >>What "principles" are those, J? The BSofA principles are hatred,
> >>>>> On Jan 17, 9:28 am, Dakota <ma...@NOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> The Boy Scouts of America has become a hate group. It should be
> >>>>>> allowed to wither and die through lack of support.
> >>>>> Like!
> >>>>When I donate to The United Way I specify that the money is not to be
> >>>>used to support BSA.
> >>>There is a vast difference between hating queers and refusing to
> >>>accept them as members in organizations when they disagree with the
> >>>principles and would insist on change.
>
> >>bigotry, fear, is that what you're defending? The "principles" that
> >>the BSofA cult live by is hate.
>
> >I'm not defending anything - I'm telling you about BSA. I do that
> >because you are obviously ignorant of the written policy and choose to
> >lie about it bcause of your personal situation.
>
> >Maybe you need to appear before the Supreme Court and state your
> >views. Oh, I forgot. They already decided.
>
> >Hugh
>
> BSA totally out of synch with the rest of the world when it comes to
> this issue. Scouts Canada, for example, has never had an issue with
> this topic. Toronto has at least two completely gay scout troops with
> several dozen boys in each one.
Segregated eh? Not a bad idea.
> None of the dire predictions of BSA have been shown to have any merit.
Why not let them have their own scout troops along with homo
appropriate awards. Flamers usually don't want to partake in manly
activities like camping, fishing or hunting so other activities and
awards can be substituted. In light of a boys fagness he should be
given the pink flamingo award instead of the Eagle award. Complete
with a pink fluffy boa. Along with merit badges for perfect nails and
makeup. Then they wouldn't have trouble getting Scoutmasters because
all of the Scoutmasters fired by the Boy Scouts would come chomping at
the bit to lead them...
Mitchell Holman
Jan 22, 2013, 5:20:43 PM1/22/13
to
Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in news:50fe9cd5.1382140
@news.eternal-september.org:
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:11:23 -0600, Mitchell Holman
> <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in news:50fdb51a.25898796
>>@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>>> Those who remember our saving the world in WWi and WWII would
probably
>>> disagree with you. If not for us they wouldn't be here to agree with
>>> you.
>
>> The Europeans certainly don't think America
>>"saved the world" in either war. The late entry
>>in both cases was reduced to a mopping up operation.
>
> You and your Euros would do well at stand up comedy. There was no
> Europe in Dec 1941. There was Germany, Italy, Dunkirk, and V-2s.
By the time the US landed in Normandy
the Soviets were beating the Nazis on all
fronts and were closing in on Germany. The
US hardly "saved the world".
> You sound like the guy who said. "I know you saved my life yesterday
> but what have you done for me today!"
>
>>> Korea and Nam come to mind since the opposing countries still exist.
>
>> Korea was a UN operation, and in any case
>>it WAS "won". South Korea is again a free country.
>
> And because we let the people with lace on their shorts run the
> operation N. Kores is still telling the world to kiss where the sun
> don't shine.
So you fault Eisenhower for not
"winning" in Korea? Just how many
more US troops should he have gotten
killed there, and for what?
@news.eternal-september.org:
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:11:23 -0600, Mitchell Holman
> <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in news:50fdb51a.25898796
>>@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>>> Those who remember our saving the world in WWi and WWII would
probably
>>> disagree with you. If not for us they wouldn't be here to agree with
>>> you.
>
>> The Europeans certainly don't think America
>>"saved the world" in either war. The late entry
>>in both cases was reduced to a mopping up operation.
>
> You and your Euros would do well at stand up comedy. There was no
> Europe in Dec 1941. There was Germany, Italy, Dunkirk, and V-2s.
the Soviets were beating the Nazis on all
fronts and were closing in on Germany. The
US hardly "saved the world".
> You sound like the guy who said. "I know you saved my life yesterday
> but what have you done for me today!"
>
>>> Korea and Nam come to mind since the opposing countries still exist.
>
>> Korea was a UN operation, and in any case
>>it WAS "won". South Korea is again a free country.
>
> And because we let the people with lace on their shorts run the
> operation N. Kores is still telling the world to kiss where the sun
> don't shine.
"winning" in Korea? Just how many
more US troops should he have gotten
killed there, and for what?
Free Lunch
Jan 22, 2013, 6:37:48 PM1/22/13
to
On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:05:33 GMT, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
about this country and embarrass us in front of the rest of the world.
wrote in alt.atheism:
>On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:55:39 -0600, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:43:54 GMT, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
>>wrote in alt.atheism:
>
>>>Those who remember our saving the world in WWi and WWII would probably
>>>disagree with you. If not for us they wouldn't be here to agree with
>>>you.
>>
>>Are you speaking of the country that stayed out of both wars for years
>>because it liked making money on it and not getting its hands dirty? The
>>United States finally did the right thing, but we were shamefully late
>>to both. The Soviets saved "the world" in WWII. We came in to declare
>>victory.
>
>I guess we thought other countries were man enough to take care of
>their own problems - they obviously were not. We enterted when we were
>"invited in" on 7 Dec 1941.
>
>As for Russia, Gen Patton had to be held back from taking Berlin long
>before they got there.
>
>You sound like a draft dodger.
I have little use for ignorant Americans like you who make false claims
>On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:55:39 -0600, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:43:54 GMT, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
>>wrote in alt.atheism:
>
>>>Those who remember our saving the world in WWi and WWII would probably
>>>disagree with you. If not for us they wouldn't be here to agree with
>>>you.
>>
>>Are you speaking of the country that stayed out of both wars for years
>>because it liked making money on it and not getting its hands dirty? The
>>United States finally did the right thing, but we were shamefully late
>>to both. The Soviets saved "the world" in WWII. We came in to declare
>>victory.
>
>I guess we thought other countries were man enough to take care of
>their own problems - they obviously were not. We enterted when we were
>"invited in" on 7 Dec 1941.
>
>As for Russia, Gen Patton had to be held back from taking Berlin long
>before they got there.
>
>You sound like a draft dodger.
about this country and embarrass us in front of the rest of the world.
Free Lunch
Jan 22, 2013, 6:39:07 PM1/22/13
to
On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:22:22 GMT, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
wrote in alt.atheism:
Your point is that you are an ignorant, foolish jingoist who makes false
claims about history because you worship your twisted views of this
country. You demean the United States with your false claims.
wrote in alt.atheism:
claims about history because you worship your twisted views of this
country. You demean the United States with your false claims.
Free Lunch
Jan 22, 2013, 6:41:17 PM1/22/13
to
On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 16:20:43 -0600, Mitchell Holman <nomailverizon.net>
wrote in alt.atheism:
He probably worships Mac, the arrogant general who made a mess of Korea
because he refused to follow orders. Mac should have been busted to buck
private for that stunt. How many Americans died because MacArthur
refused to follow orders?
wrote in alt.atheism:
because he refused to follow orders. Mac should have been busted to buck
private for that stunt. How many Americans died because MacArthur
refused to follow orders?
Jeanne Douglas
Jan 22, 2013, 7:21:03 PM1/22/13
to
In article <50fe9a4...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> As for Russia, Gen Patton had to be held back from taking Berlin long
> before they got there.
>
> You sound like a draft dodger.
Wow. Resorting to a silly insult means you know you're losing the
argument.
> >>> What wars do you think the US should have "won"?
> >>
> >>Korea and Nam come to mind since the opposing countries still exist.
> >
> >What would winning have been?
>
> A helluva lot better than losing - N. Korea is still winning and Nam
> tore this country apart forever.
How the hell is N. Korea "still winning"? How does mass starvation of
its citizens make them a winner.
Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:55:39 -0600, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us>
> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:43:54 GMT, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
> >wrote in alt.atheism:
>
> >>Those who remember our saving the world in WWi and WWII would probably
> >>disagree with you. If not for us they wouldn't be here to agree with
> >>you.
> >
> >Are you speaking of the country that stayed out of both wars for years
> >because it liked making money on it and not getting its hands dirty? The
> >United States finally did the right thing, but we were shamefully late
> >to both. The Soviets saved "the world" in WWII. We came in to declare
> >victory.
>
> I guess we thought other countries were man enough to take care of
> their own problems - they obviously were not. We enterted when we were
> "invited in" on 7 Dec 1941.
Yep, we had to be dragged in kicking and screaming into the war.
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:55:39 -0600, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us>
> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 21:43:54 GMT, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
> >wrote in alt.atheism:
>
> >>Those who remember our saving the world in WWi and WWII would probably
> >>disagree with you. If not for us they wouldn't be here to agree with
> >>you.
> >
> >Are you speaking of the country that stayed out of both wars for years
> >because it liked making money on it and not getting its hands dirty? The
> >United States finally did the right thing, but we were shamefully late
> >to both. The Soviets saved "the world" in WWII. We came in to declare
> >victory.
>
> I guess we thought other countries were man enough to take care of
> their own problems - they obviously were not. We enterted when we were
> "invited in" on 7 Dec 1941.
> As for Russia, Gen Patton had to be held back from taking Berlin long
> before they got there.
>
> You sound like a draft dodger.
argument.
> >>> What wars do you think the US should have "won"?
> >>
> >>Korea and Nam come to mind since the opposing countries still exist.
> >
> >What would winning have been?
>
> A helluva lot better than losing - N. Korea is still winning and Nam
> tore this country apart forever.
its citizens make them a winner.
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 23, 2013, 9:46:46 AM1/23/13
to
On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 17:37:48 -0600, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
>I have little use for ignorant Americans like you who make false claims
>about this country and embarrass us in front of the rest of the world.
I'm glad someone worries about that. I thought I was going to have to
appoint someone.
Hugh
wrote:
>I have little use for ignorant Americans like you who make false claims
>about this country and embarrass us in front of the rest of the world.
appoint someone.
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 23, 2013, 9:49:32 AM1/23/13
to
On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 16:21:03 -0800, Jeanne Douglas
<hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>In article <50fe9a4...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
>> I guess we thought other countries were man enough to take care of
>> their own problems - they obviously were not. We enterted when we were
>> "invited in" on 7 Dec 1941.
>
>Yep, we had to be dragged in kicking and screaming into the war.
We? I doubt that you ever served in the military. Me? I volunteered
<hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>In article <50fe9a4...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
>> I guess we thought other countries were man enough to take care of
>> their own problems - they obviously were not. We enterted when we were
>> "invited in" on 7 Dec 1941.
>
>Yep, we had to be dragged in kicking and screaming into the war.
when I was 17.
>
>
>> As for Russia, Gen Patton had to be held back from taking Berlin long
>> before they got there.
>>
>> You sound like a draft dodger.
>
>Wow. Resorting to a silly insult means you know you're losing the
>argument.
Losing? You might change, I won't.
>
>> As for Russia, Gen Patton had to be held back from taking Berlin long
>> before they got there.
>>
>> You sound like a draft dodger.
>
>Wow. Resorting to a silly insult means you know you're losing the
>argument.
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 23, 2013, 9:53:36 AM1/23/13
to
On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 16:20:43 -0600, Mitchell Holman
<nomailverizon.net> wrote:
> By the time the US landed in Normandy
>the Soviets were beating the Nazis on all
>fronts and were closing in on Germany. The
>US hardly "saved the world".
And they had to slow Patton down so he wouldn't beat them there.
<nomailverizon.net> wrote:
> By the time the US landed in Normandy
>the Soviets were beating the Nazis on all
>fronts and were closing in on Germany. The
>US hardly "saved the world".
> So you fault Eisenhower for not
>"winning" in Korea? Just how many
>more US troops should he have gotten
>killed there, and for what?
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 23, 2013, 9:55:00 AM1/23/13
to
On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 17:41:17 -0600, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
>He probably worships Mac, the arrogant general who made a mess of Korea
>because he refused to follow orders. Mac should have been busted to buck
>private for that stunt. How many Americans died because MacArthur
>refused to follow orders?
I agreed with Truman.
Hugh
wrote:
>He probably worships Mac, the arrogant general who made a mess of Korea
>because he refused to follow orders. Mac should have been busted to buck
>private for that stunt. How many Americans died because MacArthur
>refused to follow orders?
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 23, 2013, 9:58:59 AM1/23/13
to
On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 17:39:07 -0600, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
>Your point is that you are an ignorant, foolish jingoist who makes false
>claims about history because you worship your twisted views of this
>country. You demean the United States with your false claims.
Perhaps so. But you would have had to go through several chains of
command before you got to me, Sgt. Pyle.
wrote:
>Your point is that you are an ignorant, foolish jingoist who makes false
>claims about history because you worship your twisted views of this
>country. You demean the United States with your false claims.
command before you got to me, Sgt. Pyle.
Mitchell Holman
Jan 23, 2013, 5:40:32 PM1/23/13
to
Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in news:50fff8ab.2454265
@news.eternal-september.org:
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 16:20:43 -0600, Mitchell Holman
> <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>
>> By the time the US landed in Normandy
>>the Soviets were beating the Nazis on all
>>fronts and were closing in on Germany. The
>>US hardly "saved the world".
>
> And they had to slow Patton down so he wouldn't beat them there.
Patton had to be slowed down when
he outran his supply lines and refused
to cooperate in keeping a cohesive
offensive line.
>
>> So you fault Eisenhower for not
>>"winning" in Korea? Just how many
>>more US troops should he have gotten
>>killed there, and for what?
>
> You don't use troops. That's what bombs are for.
So you are saying Ike didn't know
how to use military forces properly?
@news.eternal-september.org:
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 16:20:43 -0600, Mitchell Holman
> <nomailverizon.net> wrote:
>
>> By the time the US landed in Normandy
>>the Soviets were beating the Nazis on all
>>fronts and were closing in on Germany. The
>>US hardly "saved the world".
>
> And they had to slow Patton down so he wouldn't beat them there.
he outran his supply lines and refused
to cooperate in keeping a cohesive
offensive line.
>
>> So you fault Eisenhower for not
>>"winning" in Korea? Just how many
>>more US troops should he have gotten
>>killed there, and for what?
>
> You don't use troops. That's what bombs are for.
how to use military forces properly?
Free Lunch
Jan 23, 2013, 6:58:21 PM1/23/13
to
On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 14:55:00 GMT, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
wrote in alt.atheism:
Good. Sorry to have made that assumption.
>Hugh
wrote in alt.atheism:
>Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
Jan 24, 2013, 11:27:55 AM1/24/13
to
On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 16:40:32 -0600, Mitchell Holman
<nomailverizon.net> wrote:
> Patton had to be slowed down when
>he outran his supply lines and refused
>to cooperate in keeping a cohesive
>offensive line.
>> You don't use troops. That's what bombs are for.
> So you are saying Ike didn't know
>how to use military forces properly?
spoils and our politicians agreed.
Hugh
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