Gordon Pirie Forefoot Running, does it work
Graham Moore
I have read Gordon Pirie's book on forefoor running technique. I have
suffered several annoying injuries lately. I would be interested to
hear if anyone has adopted Gordon's running style of landing on the
ball of the foot rather than the heel. Has it worked for you?
Thanks,
Graham.
Donovan Rebbechi
The emphasis on "forefoot landing" or "ball striking" is IMO misplaced. You
should be able to get rid of overstriding / heel landing problems by not
overstriding, and trying to "run quietly". Optimal stride rate for efficiency
is 180/min (3 per second), what stride rate do you run at ? If it's much less
than that, you can make quite a lot of progress just by keeping in mind the
fact that you should be using short, light strides.
Other things that could help are form drills -- Lyndon posted a few. I think
three of them are running with high knees, running with feet very low to the
ground, and "butt kicks" (running with an exaggerated back kick). Lyndon's
recommendation was to do these form drills at the start of a workout, and only
do them over a short distance (maybe 40 meters)
One thing that would not help is trying to forcefully and consciously "forefoot
strike". One of the posters here hurt himself badly in very little time (less
than 20 minutes) by trying to "learn the ball strike".
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
Christian Lemburg
Yes, it has. Started in October last year, ran about 2800 km since
then, 2600 km of them in racing flats, works well for me. Search for
Ozzie Gontangs posts, they will provide further guidance. Gordon
Pirie's book is a real treasure.
--
Christian Lemburg, <lem...@aixonix.de>, http://www.clemburg.com/
A mathematician is a machine for converting coffee into theorems.
Bagpip
wrote:
Toss your nikes and get a new brand. You'll see an improvement right
off.
Tim Downie
> One thing that would not help is trying to forcefully and consciously
> "forefoot strike". One of the posters here hurt himself badly in very
> little time (less than 20 minutes) by trying to "learn the ball
> strike".
Amen to that. I think forefoot striking should be the *end result* of other
changes made to you running form, not the beginning. As you say, sort out
the cadence and the move away from heel striking comes naturally.
Tim
--
Remove the obvious to reply by email.
Ozzie Gontang
Graham,
Here's a series of posts talking about Marching In Place as a way of
starting to land ball heel.
Hope it helps.
Donovan's caveat is real when one doesn't think through the process.
The marching in place is an easy and normal way to start as you realize
that you do land ball/heel as you march in place. Also you land
ball/heel if you jump off a ledge or low wall in order to absorb the
shock and not jar the body.
Here's the posts:
In article <4893fade.03100...@posting.google.com>, Matt
Peeler <aaro...@aol.com> wrote:
> I have been running with Brooks Addiction for about a year. I have
> flat feet and they seem to have been the best shoes for me to do a
> long run. I used them for my last 13.1 mile run in a half ironman
> recently. However, it seems that after only about 2 months of about
> 15-20 miles a week the outside rear of my shoes show alot of wear.
>
> When should I consider buying new or changing shoes. It seems like
> that is just a few miles to have that much wear. I am 5-10 175. or
> does anyone have a suggestion for another motion control show that may
> wear better. OR is there anything I can to do to limit the seemingly
> isolated wear on the outside rears of the shoe.
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks Matt P.
Matt,
Here are some posts from 1996 on wearing out the back outside of the
heel on one's running shoes.
I think this may speak a bit to your shoe wear.
Ozzie
==============beginning of post 1=============
Doug,
I wanted to open a dialogue about the power runners give away by not
thinking about form and style. I go back to George Sheehan's comment,
"First, be a good animal." Shoe styles, a great deal of research, etc.
have the unspoken assumption that runners should land on their heels
first. That is translated into the runners mind by a picture of the
heel strike being the back of the heel of the shoe...with very few
thinking that the heel of the foot is an inch and a half or more in
front of the heel of the shoe....and the vector force of body into the
ground is in front of the foot's heel.
How many of you reading this have taken off your shoes and run on grass
barefoot to see what it feels like when there is no cushion to mask
improper landing on the back of the heel of the foot.
Let me know what you've learned from doing it? Remember, if you have
not followed my earlier thoughts, I often say, "Do it, lovingly."
which to me means take care of the one body you have so that it can
serve you well for the 80 to 120+ years. Go for the grace.
In article <4hk973$m...@watnews1.watson.ibm.com>,
dvfr...@clnt13kgn.kgn.ibm.com (Doug Freese) wrote:
> Ozzie Gontang askes:
> |> It is my belief that after 20 years of watching runners, and training and
> |> coaching running form and style, "Heel Strikers are Overstriders."
> |>
> |> If you are running towards me and I can see the bottoms of your shoes from
> |> the front to the heel, you are overstriding. If you come down on the heel
> |> of the shoe, you are landing behind the heel of the foot which is about an
> |> inch or inch and a half in front of the back of the shoe heel.
> [ a little snip]
> |>
> |> Shoes will get more technical to deal the injuries caused not by running
> |> but by improper running. I continue to go to Road Runner Sport outlet
> |> store and buy size 13 shoes that people have returned because they didn't
> |> work for them. It's not only the shoes that can be the problem but the
> |> unthinking runner who doesn't think about moving over the earth with grace
> |> and ease for 80 to 120 years.
> |>
> |> And so what do you think?
> Ozzie,
> For what it's worth I agree that heel strikers are over striders.
> Having said that, I worry that people will in mass, look at the heels
> and try to alter their running stride. An individuals foot plant, right
> or wrong, seems to be a natural phenomenon and over time becomes
> a habit and all their muscles, ligaments and tendons strengthen that
> style. I don't think you are suggesting that people should change, but
> some people might read otherwise.
>
> In past years, landing on your heels was the "correct" form and many
> runners started to change their style. Toe and fore-foot strikers dug
> in their heels and as you would expect, the injury rate increased
> dramatically.
>
> My long-winded answer is, yes, a mid-foot striker is probably the most
> efficient running style but unless one is very careful I would not
> alter your running form. Even the Podiatrists answer to all foot injuries,
> orhtodicts, have to be gradually worked into the running regimen. To correct
> years of over/under pronation takes time to adjust.
>
> I'm sure there is anecdotal evidence that people have changed, so I wouldn't
> say it's not possible. Then again, if your running style is working;
> you are injury free - stay the course.
>
> A few mills worth..
>
>
> --
> Doug Freese All opinions are mine. IBM Tele: 8-293-8098
> INTERNET dvfr...@kgn.ibm.com AT&T (914) 433-8098
> Beemermail dvfr...@mailserv.kgn.ibm.com
> VM_mail DVFREESE@MHV
==============end of post 1=============
==============beginning of post 2=============
>Ozzie,
>
>I want to thank you very much for your advice concerning my
overstriding.
>
>I've taken your advice (i.e., marching in place--a practice that six
>years in the military prepared me quite well for:) and I've noticed a
>significant difference in my stride.
>
>I no longer seem to be getting the excessive wear on the outside heel
of
>my shoes which I was experiencing. Nor, even more fortunately, am I
>experiencing the ankle pain I would regularly get (which was probably
>the result of my overstriding rather than excessive pronation).
>
>So once, again, my sincere thanks.
>
>
>Dave
>dp...@andrew.cmu.edu
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>Unfinished business: May 5, 1996
>City of Pittsburgh Marathon
>
>"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists
>elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
>--Calvin & Hobbes
==============end of post 2=============
=============beginning of post 3===========
In article <01be5549$ad2c7ca0$5a3ff1cf@default>, "The Chief"
<har...@purepowersystems.com> wrote:
> On my longer runs, I begin to get pain in the ball of my foot at about the
> ten mile mark. Have tried different shoes, inserts; so far not much luck.
>
> Anyone have a distance training shoe suggestion, or any other solutions?
Is it only on one foot or the ball of the foot on both feet. If it's
both, I might suspect that you are a heel striker and your forefoot
slaps down each and every step. It would be akin to lightly tapping
you on the head with my fist a million times. After a while it starts
to be accumulative.
March in place. Notice you lift your knees. Now if you continued to
march in place but leaned from the ankle keeping the body erect, the
lean being only a half inch, you'd notice that you're still lifting
your feet up and down but every time you place you foot down, it's
about 2 to 4 inches in place of the other foot and under your center of
gravity. That's what runnings about.
Image: broom handle balanced in the palm of your hand. The broom
handle is your slightly leaned body, the hand is the earth. If the
broom handle starts to fall and you move your hand in the same
direction it's falling at the same speed it's falling, it won't fall
but keeps on moving in the direction it's going.
Go out and practice likewise!
===============end of post 3===================
In health and on the run,
Ozzie Gontang
Maintainer - rec.running FAQ
Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975
Mindful Running: http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/
Paul Rooney
wrote:
>Hi,
I've just changed - it's going OK so far. I'm not a very experienced
runner, nor particularly fit. I find it does come easier at a faster
cadence, but this can result in me trying to run too fast. It's also
good for a slow run, but I did get sore calves for a couple of days -
nothing major though. It feels smoother and easier - less effort. I'm
slightly concerned about whether I look a fool, pitter-pattering
across the earth's surface in falling mode, but what the hell! I'm
going to get my kids to watch me, and if they don't rip me too much
I'll stick with it. I don't want to race - I want to be able to
run/jog long distances without getting sore knees etc., and preferably
a bit faster than last year. It looks as though this will be
achievable.
Read all Ozzie's stuff - it's very helpful, very good.
--
Paul
My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003):
http://paulrooney.netfirms.com
Please sponsor me for the London Marathon at:
http://www.justgiving.com/london2004
Arne Todnem Vik-Mo
trackrunning, to run on the balls of my feet at all times. And I did, and
within 3 months developed a nasty case of shinsplints of both feet. I took 6
months to get better and troubled me bigtime for years afterwards.
That's just one story; but I would be careful and go gradually with this.
Monitoring cadence seems like a good option.
Pirie has some interesting views in his book, including whats discussed
here, BUT when I read it he stuck me as being quite extreme in some areas as
well, so I wouldn't take all his views to heart without first looking for
other qualified opinions.
-Arne
Pim...@waol.con
<nospam-...@c2i.net> wrote:
>When I was 16 or so, we got a new trackcoach
Did he *touch you* Arne?
Graham Moore
Thanks to all that replied to my posting on forefoot running. I have
read through all the information and will now try to concentrate on
the marching drills etc and pay a little more attention to stride
length rather than overconcern myself with making sure I land on the
ball of the foot.
I think the caveat of taking care when changing running form is
important. I tried this earlier on and found that it resulted in foot
pain around the arch and ankle. I guess any change needs to be
implemented slowly and carefully.
Once again thanks for the help.
Graham.