Which snowshows for running?
Tim
is, here in the UK snow is a very unpredictable phenomenum, you can't rely
on it's presense or absense at any time of year.
Consequently, I don't really want to spend a huge amount of money on
something that I may not need (but will be very grateful to have should it
turn out snowy).
I was wondering about something like these.
http://www.buncup.com/commerce1/store/product_details.jsp?pid=90&cid=78&red=product_list.jsp?id=78
Any comments or advice?
Tim
John Hurley
snip
> I've entered a 55 mile race that may involve running in snow. The trouble
> is, here in the UK snow is a very unpredictable phenomenum, you can't rely
> on it's presense or absense at any time of year.
>
> Consequently, I don't really want to spend a huge amount of money on
> something that I may not need (but will be very grateful to have should it
> turn out snowy).
>
> I was wondering about something like these.http://www.buncup.com/commerce1/store/product_details.jsp?pid=90&cid=...
>
> Any comments or advice?
>
> Tim
I just run thru fresh snow in my normal running shoes ... no muss ...
no fuss.
It only gets difficult when there is more than 6 inches or so of fresh
accumulation. Extra work for the thighs knees and quads so it is a
bonus.
If you are talking feet of new snow instead of inches there is a big
difference obviously.
rms
> difference obviously.
The real issue is grip on icy surfaces. If snow depth is low, an asics
screw kit could be ideal, unless you're running in some minimalist shoe. If
the race doesn't require snowshoes, I'd avoid them. Personally I'm fine
with yaktrax for short outings, but they do need frequent checks and
adjustment. Buy the screw kit.
rms
Dot
That's the situation here also. Even in the ultras that are almost
completely on snow, no one wears snowshoes except in the deepest stuff -
as in it snowed heavily while they were on the course. The race courses
are usually groomed to some extent, but not what I'd call packed. The
100milers and longer take snowshoes with them in their sleds, but the
50k's almost never use them.
I just had my first snowshoe run this winter today since we had a few
inches last night. (My HR said it was easy; my legs said no way.) The
snow underneath had been slick and loose from warm weather, so no
traction the last couple days. I went to a trailhead about 400 ft higher
than where I am, and that was just enough additional snow to make a
really nice snowshoe run - slow, but worthwhile having snowshoes on,
even though I sank ankle deep.
I like screw shoes on hard-packed, borderline icy stuff - but on loose
snow, the screws aren't long enough or wide enough to help any.
I like pointy things, like ice joggers, for ice and wider things for
snow. Think like poling (push off bottom) or paddling (blade paddles
against water/snow) a canoe. I tend to like stabilicers for non-ice,
non-snowshoe conditions. I carry ice joggers with me in car and book
packs during the winter since we can get some nasty ice, sometimes with
water on top, which makes it very close to frictionless.
Snowshoes are for when you need flotation - or want an extra workout -
or the race requires them.
This review is before I actually used screw shoes.
http://home.att.net/~akrunning/TractionDev/index.html
http://home.att.net/~akrunning/SSRunFAQ/index.html#top
Dot
Tim
>
> This review is before I actually used screw shoes.
> http://home.att.net/~akrunning/TractionDev/index.html
> http://home.att.net/~akrunning/SSRunFAQ/index.html#top
>
> Dot
Thanks for your feedback and the links Dot, useful stuff. The Stabilicers
look interesting but I don't know how easy they would be to get in the UK.
I have experimented with screwshoes in the past but found that the screws
tended to get ripped out from the shoes I was using.
I am perhaps a bit more concerned with soft snow and how that will affect my
running rather than ice but I guess a lot of it comes down to depth.
Regards
Tim
John Hurley
snip
> I am perhaps a bit more concerned with soft snow and how that will affect my
> running rather than ice but I guess a lot of it comes down to depth.
Just run thru it and keep your eyes down looking for roots and ruts
and rocks that the snow has covered up.
Dot
> Dot wrote:
>>
>> This review is before I actually used screw shoes.
>> http://home.att.net/~akrunning/TractionDev/index.html
>> http://home.att.net/~akrunning/SSRunFAQ/index.html#top
>>
>> Dot
>
> Thanks for your feedback and the links Dot, useful stuff. The
> Stabilicers look interesting but I don't know how easy they would be to
> get in the UK.
around here we get them in many outdoor stores. Ice joggers are
available in seasonal section of grocery stores - replace the hip
boots.;) Yak trax are less common than they used to be (better, more
durable products like stabilicers), but places like wal-mart still carry
them. I liked them when that's all I had AND they was enough snow so I
didn't feel the coil through my shoes, but that was rare we had that
much snow and not enough for snowshoes. And they're useless when we get
the late season icy patches, where I just put my ice joggers on to get
past some stuff.
I have experimented with screwshoes in the past but found
> that the screws tended to get ripped out from the shoes I was using.
Yea, shoes need to have enough tread to take them. I never tried them in
my Trespasses and wouldn't try in my NB 749, but they worked fine in
Adrenaline ASRs and probably in Cascadias (don't remember if I used them
in them or not) and Blurs (haven't tried).
>
> I am perhaps a bit more concerned with soft snow and how that will
> affect my running rather than ice but I guess a lot of it comes down to
> depth.
It will slow your running.:) unless it's downhill and/or covering some
nasty rooty / rocky sections so they're smooth.;)
You could try training in sand if you don't have any convenient snow. Or
perhaps muskeg or spaghnum or something along those lines. (I was
thinking about this the other day as Granite Tors has a mile or so
through such terrain.) Take smaller steps on flats and uphill. You might
not be able to take faster steps. On downhills, you might be able to
take larger steps (if it's relatively straight trail) and maybe get a
little glide from the snow. Or ski on your feet down the hill.
I helped with some of the trail brushing last year - the year of the
mashed potato snow - before the 50k/100miler winter race last year. As
we all waddled through soft stuff for most of the first 3 miles, the
ladies winner said "this is great training for the race" - or something
to that effect. I'm not sure how many years she's won it, but many.
She's not the fastest woman on the block (like if a member of US 100k
team shows up), but she shows up ahd has experience at keeping going
when it's tough. And she volunteers. Really great person and funny.
Have fun.
Dot
Ed Prochak
Ed Prochak
> I just had my first snowshoe run this winter today since we had a few
> inches last night. (My HR said it was easy; my legs said no way.)
We just had our first snowfall of the year last night. Made the
morning view very Christmas like. I'm heading out now to burn off some
of yesterday's food. Thankfully I won't need snowshoes. 8^)
Ed
(PS sorry I posted the extra copy of Dot's message. Just when you want
a slow network connection you get one blazing fast.)
Dot
Be sure to check race rules:
1. Some races may not allow shoe devices. (some don't care, but I have
seen restrictions)
2. Some races may allow variations in course. IOW, if it's just snow in
a pass, and there's another way down, the faster ones might glissade the
snow down while the more careful ones might take a safer alternate
route. But, if you're under a complete blanket of snow, well, enjoy
getting your money's worth out of the course!
Dot
Doug Freese
"John Hurley" <johnb...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:f9a39eb3-39c9-4a0d...@d21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
snip
John, it's 55 miles and not a run around the park. I experimented last
year in about 8 inches of snow and only a few miles. The first time I
ran the second I used the snow shoes - the webbed feet were much easier
and I don't use then every often. Stretch that difficultly over some or
all of 55 miles, and it could be a big difference.
Dot
> "John Hurley" <johnb...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:f9a39eb3-39c9-4a0d...@d21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 27, 5:32 am, "Tim" <timdownie2...@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> snip
>
>> I am perhaps a bit more concerned with soft snow and how that will
>> affect my
>> running rather than ice but I guess a lot of it comes down to depth.
>
>> Just run thru it and keep your eyes down looking for roots and ruts
> and rocks that the snow has covered up.>
>
> John, it's 55 miles and not a run around the park. I experimented last
> year in about 8 inches of snow and only a few miles. The first time I
> ran the second I used the snow shoes - the webbed feet were much easier
> and I don't use then every often.
Ah, ha. Sneaking in some snowshoe running.:) Actually, it's easier to
run with the ss first to pack the trail, then run without them.
> Stretch that difficultly over some or
> all of 55 miles, and it could be a big difference.
Either way - depends on the snow conditions and distance. I don't think
I've seen a runner depart the start line with snowshoes on, regardless
of 50k to 1000miles. (yea, they're used in ss races because they're
required) I think I have seen one or two put their ss on within the
first 1/4 mile - it had dumped a bunch of fresh snow the night before. I
know some people will use them before others or use them intermittently
- as in, there's no easy way to traverse fresh or soft (from heat) snow.
Sometimes the bindings might be a little snug for foot circulation in
cold weather, or you start feeling the front cleat under your foot after
awhile.
And the only ones I've seen looking at the ground are those that are
toasted. Most people are looking up so they can navigate.
Something I meant to mention to Tim - and he probably realizes it - the
benefits / hindrances of ss depend a lot on the distance to be
traversed, snow conditions, and what you do with snowshoes if not using
them. That is, do you have to haul them for the entire race or is there
a drop bag stop where you can pick them up or drop them off before /
after a section expected to be snowy.
When they used to hold the 50k/100mi on the Iditarod, that trail was so
packed (groomed for mushers), esp. after the skiers and bikers had
packed it, that only fresh snow would create problems for non-ss folks.
They've moved the race start in the last few years because they outgrew
that start venue (Iditarod sled dog race outgrew it about 15-20 yrs
ago). The new start area is used a lot less, so it's much softer. But
still, I'm not sure I've seen anyone on ss. I cheered people on for
about 5 hrs last year and didn't use snowshoes, partly because I wanted
the maneuverability to get off the trail completely when racers came
through. But the condition (warm snow) were such that snowshoes would
have just been another pound per foot, and still sunk in as much.
That said, snowshoe running is fun in the right conditions. I snowshoed
from my garage door on Friday since the plows hadn't been through yet,
but I had to walk a bit of the trail - just didn't have the leg strength
for another day of ungroomed snow and had done several miles and a few
100 ft of hills on Thursday.
Dot
John Hurley
snip
> John, it's 55 miles and not a run around the park. I experimented last
> year in about 8 inches of snow and only a few miles. The first time I
> ran the second I used the snow shoes - the webbed feet were much easier
> and I don't use then every often. Stretch that difficultly over some or
> all of 55 miles, and it could be a big difference.
Well if you want to stick to answering the question as posted ...
"The trouble is, here in the UK snow is a very unpredictable
phenomenum, you can't rely on it's presense or absense at any time of
year"
Sounds likely to me that there probably won't be snow or if so not
very much of it ... "probably".
Tim
> "John Hurley" <johnb...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:f9a39eb3-39c9-4a0d...@d21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 27, 5:32 am, "Tim" <timdownie2...@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> snip
>
>> I am perhaps a bit more concerned with soft snow and how that will
>> affect my
>> running rather than ice but I guess a lot of it comes down to depth.
>
>> Just run thru it and keep your eyes down looking for roots and ruts
> and rocks that the snow has covered up.>
>
> John, it's 55 miles and not a run around the park.
Pleased to see that someone has picked up on that point!
As for the trail being "groomed" or packed, I doubt that's going to happen
here.
What I could really do with is a shoe with an inflatable extension around
the sole to spread the load on snow. Surely someone must have invented it
somewhere? ;-)
Tim
Tim
That's the big problem. It's also in an area that I personally don't know
well but it is known for getting some very heavy snowfall sometimes.
Ideally I'd find someone who could lend me a pair of light snowshoes rather
than buy a pair on the off chance of heavy snow. They're not that common
here in the UK though so I doubt that's going to happen either.
Tim
Doug Freese
"Dot" <aktra...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hf005j$vvp$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Doug Freese wrote:
> Ah, ha. Sneaking in some snowshoe running.:) Actually, it's easier to
> run with the ss first to pack the trail, then run without them.
Damn, why didn't I think of that. :) Actually it was an experiment and
ran/ss'd the same route but three feet apart. I wanted to get feel for
the SS gain. The SS's were borrowed and some off the wall brand and a
bit large. For that day, even unpacked, a racing ss like a Dion would
have been less work.
We ended up with such a warm spell during T-day weekend, light drizzle
and zero skiing. the ski slope folks are bummed out. Not everyone hits
the stores on Black Friday. I went for two hour run and not even close
to a retail store. I have a route that hugs the ocean and perform my
annual inspection of improvements. In this area ofd Chatham, they buy
older well preserved 3/4 mil homes, scrape then to the foundation and
build bigger and taller 3-5 mil homes. Classic ocean front when all
property is in use.
> That said, snowshoe running is fun in the right conditions. I
> snowshoed from my garage door on Friday since the plows hadn't been
> through yet, but I had to walk a bit of the trail - just didn't have
> the leg strength for another day of ungroomed snow and had done
> several miles and a few 100 ft of hills on Thursday.
It's 44 and no snow in sight. I know this paradise is going to end but I
hope without a vengence.
-D
Charlie Pendejo
> What I could really do with is a shoe with an inflatable extension
> around the sole to spread the load on snow. Surely someone must
> have invented it somewhere? ;-)
Oh there you go again, Tim, bitching about the insufficiency of too-
simple contemporary running shoes which, despite the name, fail to do
the running for you.
Doug Freese
"Tim" <timdow...@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7nhrblF...@mid.individual.net...
> John Hurley wrote:
> Ideally I'd find someone who could lend me a pair of light snowshoes
> rather than buy a pair on the off chance of heavy snow. They're not
> that common here in the UK though so I doubt that's going to happen
> either.
On this side of the pond the stores that sell SS also rent.
-D