race report: Prospect Park Turkey Trot 2009
Charlie Pendejo
> Unfortunately the flu left behind some crappy lung infection
> (jogging pneumonia?) in its wake. Easy running seems to neither
> help nor hurt it. Will probably just have to jog my turkey trot
> unless it clears up ASAP
After taking Monday off and jogging Tuesday & Wednesday, it was
slightly better. Still some coughing; still a bit of fatigue showing
up during and after runs. Thursday morning I figured I'd jog the two
miles to the start, knowing that worst case I could run the course at
an easy training run pace of 8'/M, or maybe a more MP-ish 7'/M.
But I felt just terrific once warmed up. Ran a series of strides at
increasing pace - first quick running in nearly two weeks - and felt
fluid and powerful. And didn't collapse in a coughing fit.
Apparently the lung fairy had paid a nocturnal visit and cleared out
about 75% of the pulmonary gunk.
Resolved to start with a quick but relaxed first mile and see how it
went. Quite surprised to see that mile come up in 6:00 - felt at
least 30 seconds easier - and was encouraged to run "comfortably hard"
the rest of the way. Next two miles had some uphill and came to 6:14
and 6:31. Then 6:05 and 5:56 on the level to slightly downhill last
couple. 30:46 on my watch, 30:48 officially - chip timing but only
the finish line mat, and I started a dozen rows back. That seems to
be a PR by over a minute. 30th finisher of 1494. Nearly four minutes
too slow for a top 3 finish and a prize pie. Afraid that will remain
out of reach, though I'd love to break 30 next time.
I put my wily veteran pacing skills to good use, enjoying the scenery
a few seconds behind the 26 year old first female finisher the first
four and three quarter miles, offering gentlemanly encouragement as I
glided by a quarter mile out. Was tempted to push for another place
or two in the last couple hundred meters but decided with the recent
illness, discretion was the better part of valor, and that last 5-10%
effort and real pain could wait for future races. Especially once
sub-31 was clearly in the bag. No shortage of other finishers who dug
deep, as evidenced by the surprising number of postrace pukers.
This is always a well-run race - the local Prospect Park Track Club
does a much better job than Nike managed last month on basically the
same course. While I'd still rather pay a few bucks less and take
home nothing whatsoever for merely having run the race, at least this
one doesn't give out a useless tee. Swag this year was a decent
quality baseball type cap (which I left behind; I don't ever wear one,
running or not) and an extremely comfy pair of fleece gloves, which I
wore for the race (otherwise the ~48F would've been pretty borderline
for my cold hands with the Raynaud's) and gladly add to my cold
weather collection.
Dot
...
>
> But I felt just terrific once warmed up. Ran a series of strides at
> increasing pace - first quick running in nearly two weeks - and felt
> fluid and powerful. And didn't collapse in a coughing fit.
> Apparently the lung fairy had paid a nocturnal visit and cleared out
> about 75% of the pulmonary gunk.
>
Glad to hear this.
> 30:46 on my watch, 30:48 officially - chip timing but only
> the finish line mat, and I started a dozen rows back. That seems to
> be a PR by over a minute.
Great job, Charlie. Now, can you do that without the flu preceding it.;)
Do you think it's result of your extra taper or different training this
year, maybe even somewhat fresher after somewhat of a break this year.
> I put my wily veteran pacing skills to good use, enjoying the scenery
> a few seconds behind the 26 year old first female finisher the first
> four and three quarter miles, offering gentlemanly encouragement as I
> glided by a quarter mile out.
Now your sounding like Doug.;) (sorry, couldn't resist)
Dot
Charlie Pendejo
> Great job, Charlie.
Thanks Dot.
> Now, can you do that without the flu preceding it.;)
> Do you think it's result of your extra taper or different training this
> year, maybe even somewhat fresher after somewhat of a break this year.
Attributions are risky, but I believe:
- the extra taper probably just about offset the residual flu fatigue
- any freshness from the low-volume year (only reached 1000 miles in
late Sep) is worth less than decent training volume would be, though
it probably helped some with my long-term systemic recovery
- running my easy days less easy (most days) has been a good thing,
during base training without a lot of "quality"... in other words,
more of a "moderately hard / moderately easy" pattern for base
building - saving more stark "hard / easy" for later-season training.
Knowing my recovery, knowing I don't have to keep it to a ridiculously
easy slog every day to still recover.
- but mostly, running for the first time in my adult life truly free
of the atmospheric toxins (mold) which, it turns out, had been part of
my equation, attacking my immune & endocrine systems from about the
time I started running - though it became much more of an acute crisis
(and first came to my attention) two years ago when apt flooded. It's
taken a lot of time and visits with various doctors and medication and
herbs and trial & error; and this spring's surprise run-in with the
villainous mold in an apt I'd moved into ever so briefly set me back;
but I think thyroid, adrenals, etc. are finally pretty close to full
strength.
> Now your sounding like Doug.;)
Well we are of the same genus, even if I'm from a more evolved species.
Ed Prochak
[]
> out of reach, though I'd love to break 30 next time.
Wow, great time. Congrats on the nice race.
>
> I put my wily veteran pacing skills to good use, enjoying the scenery
> a few seconds behind the 26 year old first female finisher the first
> four and three quarter miles, offering gentlemanly encouragement as I
> glided by a quarter mile out. Was tempted to push for another place
> or two in the last couple hundred meters but decided with the recent
> illness, discretion was the better part of valor, and that last 5-10%
> effort and real pain could wait for future races. Especially once
> sub-31 was clearly in the bag. No shortage of other finishers who dug
> deep, as evidenced by the surprising number of postrace pukers.
Given the recent illness, sounds like discretion was teh better
choice.
>
> This is always a well-run race - the local Prospect Park Track Club
> does a much better job than Nike managed last month on basically the
> same course. While I'd still rather pay a few bucks less and take
> home nothing whatsoever for merely having run the race, at least this
> one doesn't give out a useless tee. Swag this year was a decent
> quality baseball type cap (which I left behind; I don't ever wear one,
> running or not) and an extremely comfy pair of fleece gloves, which I
> wore for the race (otherwise the ~48F would've been pretty borderline
> for my cold hands with the Raynaud's) and gladly add to my cold
> weather collection.
It's nice when races give out things other than shirts!
Glad to see you enjoyed the race. Now I'm wondering when other Turkey
day race reports are going to be posted.
Later,
ed
Bart Mathias
> [...] Now I'm wondering when other Turkey
> day race reports are going to be posted.
I was going to sneak this into my "Training week ending November 29th
2009" report, and it was technically not a race, but here it is.
The Honolulu Marathon Clinic puts on a 10-mile predict-your-time Turkey
Trot every Thanksgiving; yesterday was their 35th. It's intended as a
training run for the marathon in early December, and the thesis is, "If
your pace varies by more than four seconds per mile, you will have
trouble in the marathon, and perhaps be unable to finish."
Not a worry for me. I will go to packet pickup--I do early (cheap)
sign-up for it every spring--but I haven't run it since 2005. In fact
this 10 miles was my longest run, by a kilometer, since Thanksgiving 2008.
Obviously, I have been running piteously few miles the last year, and
needed to take that into account when I predicted my time. Most of my
little runs have ranged in the 10 to 11-minute pace range. I guessed
that running with people might spark an adrenaline flow, and considered
guessing 1:46, even though the run would be longer than I was used to.
But good sense prevailed. "1:51:00," I wrote on the tongue depressor I
was to carry to the finish line.
During the long wait for everyone to get signed in and moving to the
start line, I began losing confidence. I started planning to add two
lines to change the second "1" to a "4." But before I actually got up to
do it, they closed down and took the pencils away. That meant I would
need to do my best to maintain an 11-minute pace. (I realize that won't
get much sympathy in this group.)
When I got in the crowd at the start, and remembered how long it would
take to get to the start line, or out of the mass of people thereafter
as we did one loop of Kapi`olani Park, I really regretted not changing
my prediction. I don't mind missing my prediction, but I hate to go *over*.
I soon managed to get into a smooth jog that I thought might be about
the 11-minute variety, and kept it up for the last nine miles, though at
the end I confess I felt like I had just run a race. I didn't come close
to winning anythng though; they gave 25 prizes to runners who had
"predicted" their times to within 12 seconds. I missed mine by 13
minutes eight seconds, finishing in 1:37:52.
I thought that was surely a "PR" for bad prediction, but I came home and
reviewed the record. I guess worse once: in 2000, running with a very
bad knee, I guessed 2:22:20 and ran 15 minutes 29 seconds faster. Aside
from that, out of 13 instances that I remembered to record, I had missed
by more than a minute five times, and been within 37 seconds five times.
(I hit it on the nose with a 1:16:34 in 1990.)
Reviewing records can be painful. As bad as 1:37:52 sounds, it turned
out to be the best I had done since a 1:37:?? in 1997, and that in turn
had been my first time over 1:20. When I did my first in 1985, in
1:09:06, I thought I was on the verge of transition from "fair" to
"fairly good runner," but the following year took 1:09:32, and I never
broke 1:10 again.
It seems I am definitely on the downhill slope, and I sure feel like I'm
running as fast as ever, but the world's timepieces have perhaps all
gone haywire.
Bart
Charlie Pendejo
> It seems I am definitely on the downhill slope
And in the long run, we're all dead, as John Maynard Keynes observed.
But best time in a dozen years, and about 1:20 a mile quicker than the
estimate you feared too optimistic - that sure sounds more like a
local peak, a solid victory, than some deep desolate valley one's sunk
to the bottom of after interminable downhill.
Hopefully this outstanding bit of running softened the blow of your
lousy prediction, at least a little. :-)
Michelle
<6e41d9cc-a68b-4c2d...@h10g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
Charlie Pendejo <charlie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 30:46 on my watch, 30:48 officially - chip timing but only
> the finish line mat, and I started a dozen rows back. That seems to
> be a PR by over a minute. 30th finisher of 1494.
Congratulations!
-- Michelle
--
26.2 Because I can
Elflord
> On Sunday I'd typed:
>
>> Unfortunately the flu left behind some crappy lung infection
>> (jogging pneumonia?) in its wake. Easy running seems to neither
>> help nor hurt it. Will probably just have to jog my turkey trot
>> unless it clears up ASAP
>
> After taking Monday off and jogging Tuesday & Wednesday, it was
> slightly better. Still some coughing; still a bit of fatigue showing
> up during and after runs. Thursday morning I figured I'd jog the two
> miles to the start, knowing that worst case I could run the course at
> an easy training run pace of 8'/M, or maybe a more MP-ish 7'/M.
>
> But I felt just terrific once warmed up. Ran a series of strides at
> increasing pace - first quick running in nearly two weeks - and felt
> fluid and powerful. And didn't collapse in a coughing fit.
> Apparently the lung fairy had paid a nocturnal visit and cleared out
> about 75% of the pulmonary gunk.
>
> Resolved to start with a quick but relaxed first mile and see how it
> went. Quite surprised to see that mile come up in 6:00 - felt at
> least 30 seconds easier - and was encouraged to run "comfortably hard"
> the rest of the way. Next two miles had some uphill and came to 6:14
> and 6:31. Then 6:05 and 5:56 on the level to slightly downhill last
> couple. 30:46 on my watch, 30:48 officially - chip timing but only
> the finish line mat, and I started a dozen rows back. That seems to
Great run and congrats ... good to see you running well again.
--
Elflord
"RRings best troll" -- Mr Billie on rec.running
Dot
> Dot:
>> Great job, Charlie.
>
> Thanks Dot.
>
>
>> Now, can you do that without the flu preceding it.;)
>> Do you think it's result of your extra taper or different training this
>> year, maybe even somewhat fresher after somewhat of a break this year.
>
> Attributions are risky, but I believe:
>
> - running my easy days less easy (most days) has been a good thing,
> during base training without a lot of "quality"... in other words,
> more of a "moderately hard / moderately easy" pattern for base
> building - saving more stark "hard / easy" for later-season training.
> Knowing my recovery, knowing I don't have to keep it to a ridiculously
> easy slog every day to still recover.
makes sense to me
>
> - but mostly, running for the first time in my adult life truly free
> of the atmospheric toxins (mold) which, it turns out, had been part of
> my equation, attacking my immune & endocrine systems from about the
> time I started running ...
This is good to hear that you probably have that issue resolved and
should be turning in lots more good performances.
Dot
Ed Prochak
> Ed Prochak wrote:
> > [...] Now I'm wondering when other Turkey
> > day race reports are going to be posted.
>
> I was going to sneak this into my "Training week ending November 29th
> 2009" report, and it was technically not a race, but here it is.
No sneaking allowed around here!
>
> The Honolulu Marathon Clinic puts on a 10-mile predict-your-time Turkey
> Trot every Thanksgiving; yesterday was their 35th. It's intended as a
> training run for the marathon in early December, and the thesis is, "If
> your pace varies by more than four seconds per mile, you will have
> trouble in the marathon, and perhaps be unable to finish."
>
> Not a worry for me. I will go to packet pickup--I do early (cheap)
> sign-up for it every spring--but I haven't run it since 2005. In fact
> this 10 miles was my longest run, by a kilometer, since Thanksgiving 2008.
>
> Obviously, I have been running piteously few miles the last year, and
> needed to take that into account when I predicted my time. Most of my
> little runs have ranged in the 10 to 11-minute pace range. I guessed
> that running with people might spark an adrenaline flow, and considered
> guessing 1:46, even though the run would be longer than I was used to.
> But good sense prevailed. "1:51:00," I wrote on the tongue depressor I
> was to carry to the finish line.
>
> During the long wait for everyone to get signed in and moving to the
> start line, I began losing confidence. I started planning to add two
> lines to change the second "1" to a "4." But before I actually got up to
> do it, they closed down and took the pencils away. That meant I would
> need to do my best to maintain an 11-minute pace. (I realize that won't
> get much sympathy in this group.)
Hey, I'd be happy with an 11 minute pace for 10miles right now.
>
> When I got in the crowd at the start, and remembered how long it would
> take to get to the start line, or out of the mass of people thereafter
> as we did one loop of Kapi`olani Park, I really regretted not changing
> my prediction. I don't mind missing my prediction, but I hate to go *over*.
Prediction runs can be a lot of fun. The few times I've done it, I
always tried to be somewhat aggressive in my prediction. I may go
over, but at least I figure that way I'll run it harder than I would
otherwise.
>
> I soon managed to get into a smooth jog that I thought might be about
> the 11-minute variety, and kept it up for the last nine miles, though at
> the end I confess I felt like I had just run a race. I didn't come close
> to winning anythng though; they gave 25 prizes to runners who had
> "predicted" their times to within 12 seconds. I missed mine by 13
> minutes eight seconds, finishing in 1:37:52.
13minutes under prediction, That's something to be thankful for.
You seem to have a similar level of skill as me at knowing what pace
you are running when you do not have a watch to measure splits.
>
> I thought that was surely a "PR" for bad prediction, but I came home and
> reviewed the record. I guess worse once: in 2000, running with a very
> bad knee, I guessed 2:22:20 and ran 15 minutes 29 seconds faster. Aside
A bad knee and still running faster? Wow.
> from that, out of 13 instances that I remembered to record, I had missed
> by more than a minute five times, and been within 37 seconds five times.
> (I hit it on the nose with a 1:16:34 in 1990.)
Were the instances all under the predictions?
>
> Reviewing records can be painful. As bad as 1:37:52 sounds, it turned
> out to be the best I had done since a 1:37:?? in 1997, and that in turn
> had been my first time over 1:20.
That sound like you are improving then, so what's to complain about?
> .... When I did my first in 1985, in
> 1:09:06, I thought I was on the verge of transition from "fair" to
> "fairly good runner," but the following year took 1:09:32, and I never
> broke 1:10 again.
>
> It seems I am definitely on the downhill slope, and I sure feel like I'm
> running as fast as ever, but the world's timepieces have perhaps all
> gone haywire.
>
> Bart
Maybe reviewing the records, you did not review the training that
happened before each of those races? IIRC, you are not so old that you
would be on the downhill side.
Anyway, thanks for the report. Prediction runs are rare, but fun. And
you did good.
Ed.
Anthony
"Bart Mathias" <mat...@hawaii.edu> wrote in message
news:heprqh$rtp$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Ed Prochak wrote:
>> [...] Now I'm wondering when other Turkey
>> day race reports are going to be posted.
>
> I was going to sneak this into my "Training week ending November 29th
> 2009" report, and it was technically not a race, but here it is.
Sounds like a fun race to run - and sounds like you ran a lot
better than your optimistic prediction....
Anthony.
Anthony
"Charlie Pendejo" <charlie...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6e41d9cc-a68b-4c2d...@h10g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
> On Sunday I'd typed:
Nicely done Charlie! What a great feeling to get over the sickness, and
run a much better than anticipated race.
Heh - I always run in a cap - so you should have saved it for your next
visit over here ;-)
Anthony.
Bart Mathias
>
>> from that, out of 13 instances that I remembered to record, I had missed
>> by more than a minute five times, and been within 37 seconds five times.
>> (I hit it on the nose with a 1:16:34 in 1990.)
>
> Were the instances all under the predictions?
No. Aside from the two unders I mentioned, five unders and four overs.
>> Reviewing records can be painful. As bad as 1:37:52 sounds, it turned
>> out to be the best I had done since a 1:37:?? in 1997, and that in turn
>> had been my first time over 1:20.
>
> That sound like you are improving then, so what's to complain about?
Some people just have to gripe all the time.
>> [...]
>>
>> It seems I am definitely on the downhill slope, and I sure feel like I'm
>> running as fast as ever, but the world's timepieces have perhaps all
>> gone haywire.
>>
>> Bart
>
> Maybe reviewing the records, you did not review the training that
> happened before each of those races?
A task for the next rainy day.
IIRC, you are not so old that you would be on the downhill side.
I hope you're right!
Bart
Doug Freese
>> Now your sounding like Doug.;)
>
> Well we are of the same genus, even if I'm from a more evolved
> species.
And Dahmer was a vegetarian. ;)
-D
Parker Race
Congratulations on a good race, maybe I need to get the flu!
48F? It was warmer than that upstate! Well at least when the race I was in
which didn't start until 10:45.
I had a very disimilar experience in a local 10k on T day.
I warmed up starting behind the pack and jogging an easy 5k in the
preceeding race.
In the 10k I ran what used to be about my Marathon pace, 7:50 per mile (last
time I ran one anyway) for the first 5 miles.
It went down hill from there. I knew it was over when ... a guy wearing
sweat pants and and a lumber jack shirt pulled up next to me around 5.5
miles. ;>)
Charlie Pendejo
> Congratulations on a good race, maybe I need to get the flu!
Thanks. I cannot recommend it as an all-around fun time, but it *was*
good for three pounds and about a week of solid rest.
> It went down hill from there. I knew it was over when ... a guy wearing
> sweat pants and and a lumber jack shirt pulled up next to me around 5.5
> miles. ;>)
Oof, that hurts! Was he singing the song? "...and I work all day..."
Here in NYC "that guy" for me is more likely thirty pounds overweight
but somehow stuffed into his petite girlfriend's lycra tights, and
equipped for a week-long ultra-distance race somewhere in Africa.
At least you've probably got more distaff company at that pace. ;-)
Ed Prochak
On my turkey trot, that guy passed me going uphill pushing a stroller.
I told him, "that's cruel!"
jobs
...
> Resolved to start with a quick but relaxed first mile and see how it
> went. Quite surprised to see that mile come up in 6:00 - felt at
> least 30 seconds easier - and was encouraged to run "comfortably hard"
> the rest of the way. Next two miles had some uphill and came to 6:14
> and 6:31. Then 6:05 and 5:56 on the level to slightly downhill last
> couple. 30:46 on my watch, 30:48 officially - chip timing but only
> the finish line mat, and I started a dozen rows back. That seems to
> be a PR by over a minute. 30th finisher of 1494. Nearly four minutes
> too slow for a top 3 finish and a prize pie. Afraid that will remain
> out of reach, though I'd love to break 30 next time.
Swineflued your way to a nice PR, eh?
Congrats, Charlie.
Good luck and hope you reggae your way to a marathon PR.
jobs
Bart Mathias
> [...]
> On my turkey trot, that guy passed me going uphill pushing a stroller.
> I told him, "that's cruel!"
On mine, we hadn't quite reached the uphill yet. Two kids in the stroller.
I didn't say anything to him directly, but I opined to some others who
had also been passed at that point, "I bet we could go fast too, if we
had wheels!"
Bart
D Stumpus
"Charlie Pendejo" <charlie...@gmail.com> wrote
Nice race! Especially after coming off an illness. Last time I did a post
flu race of similar distance, I ran a good minute off my best.
I guess I'll accept your excuse for the non-puke. Then again, when you come
back next year and take a pie, puking would be contraindicated, so it's good
practice.
> I put my wily veteran pacing skills to good use, enjoying the scenery
> a few seconds behind the 26 year old first female finisher the first
> four and three quarter miles, offering gentlemanly encouragement as I
> glided by a quarter mile out.
Nice pacing. I find that women I pace with throughout the race are usually
pretty strong at the end, and the only way I get 'em is with a mad kick.
> Swag this year was a decent
> quality baseball type cap (which I left behind; I don't ever wear one,
> running or not)
You never when a high pop fly is going to be heading your way ...
> and an extremely comfy pair of fleece gloves, which I
> wore for the race (otherwise the ~48F would've been pretty borderline
> for my cold hands with the Raynaud's) and gladly add to my cold
> weather collection.
I notice (as a fellow Renauds-nik) that when my hands warm up, it's time to
take off the gloves to prevent overheating. The hands are extremely
important in temperature regulation. I can overheat even on cool days if I
leave the gloves on too long.
You might find this interesting:
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/105/1/37
Charlie Pendejo
> I guess I'll accept your excuse for the non-puke.
Heh, getting a side stitch is more my speed anyway.
Turns out it's not just me & Anthony (before he vanquished it)
either. The prerace favorite to finish #2 in the recent NCAA womens'
XC nationals apparently has a chronic problem with them, and one cost
her the race. Others too: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3315407
> Then again, when you come back next year and take a pie
I'm eternally bullish on my own upside, but not top-3-overall-finish
bullish! We're talking 3 pies per gender, period, no consideration
for being an old guy.
No, I'll continue to nurture and cultivate friendships with avid
bakers, that's far more reliable. :-)
> I notice (as a fellow Renauds-nik) that when my hands warm up, it's time to
> take off the gloves to prevent overheating. The hands are extremely
> important in temperature regulation. I can overheat even on cool days if I
> leave the gloves on too long.
>
> You might find this interesting:http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/105/1/37
Indeed I did. Hadn't noticed this myself or given it any thought
before - always figured, if my hands were a little sweaty, well,
they're a small % of body surface area or volume or whatever.
Thanks! While their protocol was cooling hands during recovery, it
wouldn't seem a huge stretch to guess holding a bag or two of ice (I
think I read such will be provided at aid tables) in my hot Jamaican
42k next weekend might not be the worst idea.
Charlie Pendejo
> wouldn't seem a huge stretch to guess holding a bag or two of ice (I
> think I read such will be provided at aid tables) in my hot Jamaican
> 42k next weekend might not be the worst idea.
Or hiking the damn thing, or spectating, rum punch in hand. Jeez, now
that I really look at the forecast, this is starting to shape up in my
mind like a Badwater-style stunt race where the main goal is to avoid
hospitalization, heat stroke, and organ damage:
For comparison, the day of the '07 Chicago Marathon - with the record
heat and tens of thousands of no-shows and non-finishers after they
canceled the race a few hours in, fearing for participants' safety:
Chicago was a bit cooler and way less humid - wimpy dew points about
10 degrees less.
Who's got a rule of thumb for pace adjustment in miserable conditions
(for runners not named Wanjiru)? (Paging MIA poster Frank from the
Gulf coast...)
Should I tote a few takeout salt packets? Wear a stillsuit to recycle
my sweat? Leave a will clearly visible in my hotel room?
I2Run
| > wouldn't seem a huge stretch to guess holding a bag or two of ice (I
| > think I read such will be provided at aid tables) in my hot Jamaican
| > 42k next weekend might not be the worst idea.
|
| Or hiking the damn thing, or spectating, rum punch in hand. Jeez, now
| that I really look at the forecast, this is starting to shape up in my
| mind like a Badwater-style stunt race where the main goal is to avoid
| hospitalization, heat stroke, and organ damage:
What did you get into CP?, I wouldn't even consider doing
a 10 mi training run in those conditions. Perhaps bring a chair &
umbrella and camp out near the finish line with some fancy drinks
to watch how many will make it.
Good luck if you decide to run.
D Stumpus
"Charlie Pendejo" <charlie...@gmail.com> wrote
> Or hiking the damn thing, or spectating, rum punch in hand. Jeez, now
> that I really look at the forecast, this is starting to shape up in my
> mind like a Badwater-style stunt race where the main goal is to avoid
> hospitalization, heat stroke, and organ damage:
>
> http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=zmw:00000.1.78388&hourly=1&yday=338&weekday=Saturday&MR=1
> Who's got a rule of thumb for pace adjustment in miserable conditions
> (for runners not named Wanjiru)? (Paging MIA poster Frank from the
> Gulf coast...)
CP:
I've run a few races in 100+F temps, but the dew point was lower. I don't
know how those conversions map out.
> Should I tote a few takeout salt packets? Wear a stillsuit to recycle
> my sweat? Leave a will clearly visible in my hotel room?
But ... my advice is not to fight it, run at a comfortable crusing effort,
drink tons, take salt (1 S cap every 20 oz or so).
I'd carry a bottle, and sip at least 2-4 oz/mile under those conditions.
If you take salt any over hydration will cause you to piss it out. But you
are good at drinking out of cups on the run -- just remember to keep your
fluids/salt in balance starting early.
As you overheat, you will need to slow down until it's sustainable -- I
don't find it hard to find the sweet spot. I'd guess 10-15 minutes slower
than at reasonable temps, provided it starts in the morning. That's like 30
sec/mile. The limiter is not aerobic discomfort, but heat load.
If you're sweating freely, you're doing it right. If you get dehydrated,
the sweat rate slows down and you overheat more (if that's possible at those
dew points!)
Awaiting the report,
Dan
Charlie Pendejo
> I wouldn't even consider doing a 10 mi training run in
> those conditions.
And that's why you're acquiring a well-deserved reputation for being a
level-headed runner who's wise beyond his running years, while I'm
(especially in lance's absence) a strong contender for wreck.running's
most reckless idiot.
If the race claims me, whoever has posted within the last month who
wears a size 8 gets my collection of flats. If that's nobody active
on the group, I hereby bequeath them to joe positive, who I know to be
about my size.
Dan:
> But you are good at drinking out of cups on the run
Actually it appears this race has a novel system which gets rave
reviews from those who write up race reports on marathonguide.com -
liquids are dispensed in plastic bags not cups. I will make sure to
drink early and often, and salt myself like some giant bipedal
margarita glass. Not gonna have time to run out and buy S-caps
between now and then but hopefully a few takeout salt packets, kept
dry in a baggie, will do the trick for a race of this length.
Doug Freese
> If the race claims me, whoever has posted within the last month who
> wears a size 8 gets my collection of flats. If that's nobody active
> on the group, I hereby bequeath them to joe positive, who I know to be
> about my size.
Even if you survive it may take months for your feet to return to their
normal size. ;)
> Actually it appears this race has a novel system which gets rave
> reviews from those who write up race reports on marathonguide.com -
> liquids are dispensed in plastic bags not cups.
I can't picture a bag being convenient. If you can't carry the bag and
drink as you go then how about a hand held bottle to dump the bag into.
> I will make sure to
> drink early and often, and salt myself like some giant bipedal
> margarita glass. Not gonna have time to run out and buy S-caps
> between now and then but hopefully a few takeout salt packets, kept
> dry in a baggie, will do the trick for a race of this length.
I don't envy the sudden heat. I do this most years when I run Bull Run
in Virginia in April and it isn't fun. It's not bad to have some heat
acclimation and then experience an additional surge. To go from what we
have will be a dramatic change.
I'm assuming your plan is to use it as a long run and not a Boston
qualifier?
Be safe!
-D
Anthony
"Doug Freese" <dfr...@hvc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hf7g15$ae4$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>> Actually it appears this race has a novel system which gets rave
>> reviews from those who write up race reports on marathonguide.com -
>> liquids are dispensed in plastic bags not cups.
>
> I can't picture a bag being convenient. If you can't carry the bag and
> drink as you go then how about a hand held bottle to dump the bag into.
I've heard of these sachet like water "bags" where you can tear off the
corner
with your teeth, and for most people it's very easy to drink from -
a lot easier than cups...and more effective.
Regarding runing in the heat. Been there a few times.
Forget about PRs and goal times. Don't push the pace.
Drink plenty and early. Salt is a good idea.
Don't know how long before the race you are arriving - but probably
a good idea to go for an easy jog at racetime the day and/or
2 days before to get an idea of what it's going to feel like.
Good luck Charlie! (you'll need it...)
Anthony.
Charlie Pendejo
> Even if you survive it may take months for your feet to return to
> their normal size. ;)
If swelling exceeds four hours, I'll be sure to call my doctor. ;-)
> To go from what we have will be a dramatic change.
Yeah, this last couple weeks I have been going out dressed for -15F,
with pants over tights, two warm layers plus a shell, hea
I2Run
| If the race claims me, whoever has posted within the last month who
| wears a size 8 gets my collection of flats. If that's nobody active
| on the group, I hereby bequeath them to joe positive, who I know to be
| about my size.
One caution though as I had experienced this last winter.
After training in around 0F last January, I went to a warmer climate
with temps in 60s to 70s. I had cherry red blood in my urine just after
running 3 miles on the second day there on my first run. The second run
then next day was a little better, but still had some blood and then it got
normal. Visited a urologist on my return and happy to find all the tests
came out negative. IIRC the ultra runners experience this more than
the normal folks and attribute my problem to the to big jump in temps.
Charlie Pendejo
Doug:
>> Even if you survive it may take months for your feet to return to
>> their normal size. ;)
pendejo:
> If swelling exceeds four hours, I'll be sure to call my doctor. ;-)
>> To go from what we have will be a dramatic change.
> Yeah, this last couple weeks I have been going out dressed for -15F,
> with pants over tights, two warm layers plus a shell, hea
...heavy duty hat & gloves. Just like yr buddy Benji D. :-)
But I think it's better than nothing but well short of really
simulating 76F dew point.
>> I'm assuming your plan is to use it as a long run and not a
>> Boston qualifier?
Now that I realize just exactly how brutal it's gonna be, yes.
Previously I knew it wasn't gonna be the race for a 2:5x but still had
aspiration of beating my (kinda lame) marathon PR. Now I just hope to
get through it and have something left to enjoy the rest of the
tropical weekend.
And I've no aspiration to run Boston (rather run shorter races in
spring) and already have my NYCQ. :-)
Charlie Pendejo
> I had cherry red blood in my urine [...]
> attribute my problem to the to big jump in temps.
Huh. That'd be a little alarming! Learn something new every day
(though at this age, I promptly forget it).
Presumably the condition responds well to treatment with rum? (I'm
trying to avoid making a tequila sunrise reference, a gross visual
joke, but willpower is failing...)
Doug Freese
"Anthony" <ant...@nospam.biu.ac.il> wrote in message
news:hf7jmi$rce$1...@news.iucc.ac.il...
>
> "Doug Freese" <dfr...@hvc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:hf7g15$ae4$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
> the corner
> with your teeth, and for most people it's very easy to drink from -
> a lot easier than cups...and more effective.
If you come accross a picture let me know.
> Regarding runing in the heat. Been there a few times.
> Forget about PRs and goal times. Don't push the pace.
> Drink plenty and early. Salt is a good idea.
> Don't know how long before the race you are arriving - but probably
> a good idea to go for an easy jog at racetime the day and/or
> 2 days before to get an idea of what it's going to feel like.
And not to beat this horse any more, don't hydrate the day night before
on plain water. It's a common mistake and sets the stage for
hyponatremia by watering down your sodium before you take a step. Make
sure you are taking some corresponding salt with the fluid. Howe about a
nice healthy hunk of Jerky. ;)
Depending on the heat conditions, I like to take an S!cap or a V8 at the
starting line. Since S!caps are only mail order you can't get them
before the race. Now Hammer makes E!caps and they are available in
sporting stores but they are only 40 mg per where a S is 340. You need a
bloody basketful of E in a hot race but may be better than nothing. They
can fit in a zip lock bag in your shorts and stay dry.
Rock on!
-D
Charlie Pendejo
> nice healthy hunk of Jerky
I am considered nice, healthy, and a hunk. But I must admit to
falling short when it comes to being jerky. You'd think I'd have
progressed more, hanging around this dive so many years... :-p
pendejo:
> Yeah, this last couple weeks I have been going out dressed for
> -15F, with pants over tights, two warm layers plus a shell, heavy
> duty hat & gloves. Just like yr buddy Benji D. :-)
>
> But I think it's better than nothing but well short of really
> simulating 76F dew point.
My exaggerated modesty prevented me from thinking of this the first
time around: forget those namby-pamby overdressed one and two hour
jaunts. Two weeks ago I spent ** seventy-two consecutive hours **
sweating my, uh, oldies off, with core temp ranging between 101 and at
least 103 degrees Fahrenheit.
Let's face it, I'm the friggin' training *genius* of my generation,
two steps ahead of yr buddy the would-be Olympian (with, yowza, 25
sub-2:20's in a decade, not bad).
Now my only fear is if they drug test. I'd hate to be DQ'd for
failing to toke up, but me and ganja just haven't been on speaking
terms this last quarter century.
Dot
> oops, damn keyboard
>
> Doug:
>
>
>>> I'm assuming your plan is to use it as a long run and not a
>>> Boston qualifier?
>
> Now that I realize just exactly how brutal it's gonna be, yes.
> Previously I knew it wasn't gonna be the race for a 2:5x but still had
> aspiration of beating my (kinda lame) marathon PR. Now I just hope to
> get through it and have something left to enjoy the rest of the
> tropical weekend.
Good luck, Charlie, and run safe. Enjoy your weekend.
>
> And I've no aspiration to run Boston (rather run shorter races in
> spring) and already have my NYCQ. :-)
Relax, enjoy!
Dot
Charlie Pendejo
The postrace rum therapy must be working.
Dot:
> Good luck, Charlie, and run safe. Enjoy your weekend.
> [...]
> Relax, enjoy!
Thanks, Dot. Turns out it's hard not to "relax, enjoy" here.
To the dismay of some wreck.runners including those vultures hoping to
scavenge my size 8's, I survived it. Guess I BQ'd, in defiance of
Doug's orders. Sorry Doug, you know I almost always listen to you.
First: it's a fantastic race, put on with great style but also
terrific attention to detail. They call the marathon eve pasta party
the world's best, and they're probably right: each of the big Negril
resorts has a table and offers a variety of grub. Terrific music and
good vibes there, and the entire race day.
The race start is dramatic, with drummers and torchlight (it's an hour
before sunrise). Went off precisely on time. Again, while there's a
good reason the phrase "island time" exists, the organizers of this
race clearly take a lot of pride in dotting the t's and crossing the
i's. I can add my voice to those fans of the sealed water (and
G'rade) bag system - they work beautifully in practice. You can carry
them as long as you like sealed. and even after biting open a corner
and drinking some, they're still really easy to tote if you wish.
Though after a while I realized it was not so necessary, given that
water stops were every mile. Better to sip, shower, then ditch the
bag.
I went out at a comfortable pace and stayed within a range of about
7:00 to 7:40 a mile the whole way. Different things seemed to limit
the speed at various points: initially just caution, guts after too
much G'rade early on, the heat, muscle fatigue. But I always kept it
a couple notches away from the hairy edge... which is no doubt why I
was able to run basically even splits (1:36 half, 3:12:40ish finish)
despite the sun and heat rising considerably after about mile 9.
Beyond mile 12 or so, once I passed the half-marathoner turnaround,
most of my race was with no other runner in sight in either
direction. Out and back course so I could see there were 10 or 12
runners in front of me. I nabbed two who'd slowed drastically in the
21st mile, and kicked hard in the last quarter mile to pass a guy who
had 13 seconds on me as he passed the mile 26 marker. I nipped him
just before the finish, by one second, which will no doubt garner
mixed reactions here. But it turned out he was running the half, and
the nearest marathon finisher was minutes ahead. No wonder I was able
to catch him despite that last .2 being off... by my watch that took
me 47 seconds (and the thirtysomething half marathoners from Boston,
60). I was assuredly running my fastest pace of the race, but clearly
it wasn't 3:55/mile pace.
I wore the 4.2 oz Piranha SP2. They were perfectly adequate: at no
point did I want more, or different, shoes. The only time I thought
about them at all was in registering that they got pretty soaked from
the dousings with water, administered by myself and also a cadre of
garden hose operators.
Running partner ran well - I saw her looking good at about mile 15
while I was at 17, post-turnaround - but brutalized her ITB or TFL or
something around her own mile 17. She gamely ran across the finish
but with a gruesome limp, and looks to be spending the rest of the
weekend on crutches and analgesics. Still finished comfortably under
four hours and I think will receive an AG award tonight, as should I
(3rd M40, 7th male, 9th overall). If we're sufficiently sober to find
our way to the ceremony
Charlie Pendejo
> Oops, first time around I accidentally posted under the wrong email.
> The postrace rum therapy must be working.
And, dammit,. the second time I forgot to change the subject. OK, I'm
voluntarily cutting myself off from Usenet.
Dot
> Dot:
>> Good luck, Charlie, and run safe. Enjoy your weekend.
>> Relax, enjoy!
>
> Thanks, Dot. Turns out it's hard not to "relax, enjoy" here.
>
> To the dismay of some wreck.runners including those vultures hoping to
> scavenge my size 8's, I survived it. Guess I BQ'd, in defiance of
> Doug's orders. Sorry Doug, you know I almost always listen to you.
Wooo hooo!! Congratulations, Charlie. Congratulations.
>
> First: it's a fantastic race, put on with great style but also
> terrific attention to detail. They call the marathon eve pasta party
> the world's best, and they're probably right: each of the big Negril
> resorts has a table and offers a variety of grub. Terrific music and
> good vibes there, and the entire race day.
>
> The race start is dramatic, with drummers and torchlight (it's an hour
> before sunrise). Went off precisely on time.
This sounds like an awesome race. How many people? can't remember if
you've said before or not.
Again, while there's a
> good reason the phrase "island time" exists, the organizers of this
> race clearly take a lot of pride in dotting the t's and crossing the
> i's. I can add my voice to those fans of the sealed water (and
> G'rade) bag system - they work beautifully in practice. You can carry
> them as long as you like sealed. and even after biting open a corner
> and drinking some, they're still really easy to tote if you wish.
> Though after a while I realized it was not so necessary, given that
> water stops were every mile. Better to sip, shower, then ditch the
> bag.
Are these like those fruit drink pouches?
>
> I went out at a comfortable pace and stayed within a range of about
> 7:00 to 7:40 a mile the whole way. Different things seemed to limit
> the speed at various points: initially just caution, guts after too
> much G'rade early on, the heat, muscle fatigue. But I always kept it
> a couple notches away from the hairy edge... which is no doubt why I
> was able to run basically even splits (1:36 half, 3:12:40ish finish)
> despite the sun and heat rising considerably after about mile 9.
Have to put you among the pro's with splits like that!! Very well done.
>
> Beyond mile 12 or so, once I passed the half-marathoner turnaround,
> most of my race was with no other runner in sight in either
> direction. Out and back course so I could see there were 10 or 12
> runners in front of me. I nabbed two who'd slowed drastically in the
> 21st mile, and kicked hard in the last quarter mile to pass a guy who
> had 13 seconds on me as he passed the mile 26 marker. I nipped him
> just before the finish, by one second, which will no doubt garner
> mixed reactions here.
Hey, for some of us, it's a race until across the finish line.
...
>
> Running partner ran well - I saw her looking good at about mile 15
> while I was at 17, post-turnaround - but brutalized her ITB or TFL or
> something around her own mile 17. She gamely ran across the finish
> but with a gruesome limp, and looks to be spending the rest of the
> weekend on crutches and analgesics.
Good she finished. Bummer she finished in the condition she did. Hope
she can still enjoy the rest of the weekend.
Still finished comfortably under
> four hours and I think will receive an AG award tonight, as should I
> (3rd M40, 7th male, 9th overall). If we're sufficiently sober to find
> our way to the ceremony.
Congratulations! Enjoy the rest of your weekend!!
Dot
John Hurley
snip
Congratulations Charlie!
I will cut you some slack on the pass just before the finish line
since you were apparently at top ten finisher and also that your
victim was not in your same competition.
In general though my advice is to either get the passing done before
the last 20 yards of a race or to just stay in line. Too many people
hurting other people by doing stupid things coming into the finish
line chute is what I have seen.
I2Run
> To the dismay of some wreck.runners including those vultures hoping to
> scavenge my size 8's, I survived it. Guess I BQ'd, in defiance of
> Doug's orders. Sorry Doug, you know I almost always listen to you.
Good thing you don't have plans to run Beantown, they were sold out 3 ago.
> was able to run basically even splits (1:36 half, 3:12:40ish finish)
> despite the sun and heat rising considerably after about mile 9.
An excellent race in adverse conditions, Congrats on AG 3rd!
Sounds like it is a great race and fun, consider a few small races
like DeMar in NE. There is one in May first week, Walter Childs in
Holyoke, MA and sure you would be in top 3 overall.
> Running partner ran well - I saw her looking good at about mile 15
> while I was at 17, post-turnaround - but brutalized her ITB or TFL or
> something around her own mile 17. She gamely ran across the finish
> but with a gruesome limp, and looks to be spending the rest of the
> weekend on crutches and analgesics.
Hope nothing serious as I am counting on getting my ass whupped by
her in a race or two next year. Please convey my Congrats, what an
heroic effort through the injury.
Doug Freese
"Chuck" <chuc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dd8a9738-0dea-451c...@e7g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
> Dot:
> To the dismay of some wreck.runners including those vultures hoping to
> scavenge my size 8's, I survived it. Guess I BQ'd, in defiance of
> Doug's orders. Sorry Doug, you know I almost always listen to you.
Size 8's? Hell I was in size 8's at age three. So what were
temp/humidity conditions? You anticipated or at least described some
rather harsh conditions which most replied to be careful, not wishing
any evil thoughts. Now that your a puffed up heat runner I would expect
you sign up for Badwater and show some real moxy. ;)
Good race or good survival.
Now that you have a BQ qualifier I think You should run it at least once
although it will have to wait until 2011 unless you have some pull for
2010.
-D
Charlie Pendejo
> So what were
> temp/humidity conditions? You anticipated or at least described some
> rather harsh conditions which most replied to be careful, not wishing
> any evil thoughts. Now that your a puffed up heat runner I would expect
> you sign up for Badwater and show some real moxy. ;)
According to http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/MKJS/2009/12/5/DailyHistory.html
it appears temp at the start was about 80, close to 88 at my finish.
Those poor 5-6 hour marathoners got the worst of the heat. Dew point
in the 73-75 range.
Though the heat for sure slowed me, it didn't bum me out at all.
Dunno if that's because I always like the heat, or my couple weeks of
training all bundled up, or maybe the three days of fever a few weeks
back really did help. This heat definitely seemed less oppressive
than that fever.
I've always said, I like the heat and the idea of Badwater... just not
the distance. I have zero interest in running more than 26 miles. I
have almost zero interest in running 26 miles, though this one was
appealing as a vacation, and I'm committed to doing what I can to
finally run a good one in NY in 11 months. After that I may retire
from the distance.
Michelle Steiner
> four hours and I think will receive an AG award tonight, as should I
> (3rd M40, 7th male, 9th overall). If we're sufficiently sober to find
> our way to the ceremony
Congrats to both of you.
-- Michelle
--
Sent from my iPhone
Anthony
"Chuck" <chuc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dd8a9738-0dea-451c...@e7g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
> scavenge my size 8's, I survived it. Guess I BQ'd, in defiance of
> Doug's orders. Sorry Doug, you know I almost always listen to you.
More than survived it - looks like you ran a great race. Got the training
and conditioning and execution right.
Always a pleasant bonus to score an award - well deserved.
Nice one.
Anthony. (Size 11.5 anyway...)
Doug Freese
> Though the heat for sure slowed me, it didn't bum me out at all.
> Dunno if that's because I always like the heat, or my couple weeks of
> training all bundled up,
Running in excess duds is a common practice for heat training and many
claim is works well. I've worn a few shirts in 60-80 and if nothing
else, you sweat your ass off. Really helpful to guide you with salt
requirements.
> I've always said, I like the heat and the idea of Badwater... just not
> the distance. I have zero interest in running more than 26 miles. I
> have almost zero interest in running 26 miles, though this one was
> appealing as a vacation, and I'm committed to doing what I can to
> finally run a good one in NY in 11 months. After that I may retire
> from the distance.
After you retire try the Escarpment - it's only 30k.
-D
John Hurley
snip
> > I've always said, I like the heat and the idea of Badwater... just not
> > the distance. I have zero interest in running more than 26 miles. I
> > have almost zero interest in running 26 miles, though this one was
> > appealing as a vacation, and I'm committed to doing what I can to
> > finally run a good one in NY in 11 months. After that I may retire
> > from the distance.
Not quite sure how old you are Charlie but I made a similar decision a
while back. One of the smarter running related decisions I ever made
( not that there are many to choose from ).
> After you retire try the Escarpment - it's only 30k.
Sounds like Doug is trying to kill you off!
Charlie Pendejo
Dot:
> This sounds like an awesome race. How many people?
It really is. Of course its being a hot road race makes it the
antithesis of your kind of course and conditions. But yeah, it's a
special race.
126 finishers, says the results. Considerably more ran the half
marathon - four or five hundred? - and there was an awful lot of
overlap between 21k and 42k runners finishing. Also a 10k but I think
the half was the biggest race. Next year's the 10th running, and
everyone seems to expect a bigger race (and bigger parties, natch).
I believe over 300 volunteers, so we were well cared for.
> Are these like those fruit drink pouches?
I guess, though I've no firsthand experience with those. From package
labeling it appeared the bags were intended for freezer pops.
> Have to put you among the pro's with splits like that!! Very well done.
Well thanks, and it worked out well for my goals (have some fun,
survive the heat, don't kill myself but hopefully run pretty close to
my capability given the conditions). But I give myself less credit
for even splits than this group is wont to. Would it have been just
as noble to have jogged two hours for each half en route to a four
hour finish? Nah, in my world it's more about the performance (but
measured how - time [which depends on course & conditions]? place
[which depends on the competition]? subjective effort [considerably
less objective than the others]?), though I'll concede some kind of
decent pacing strategy is fundamental to the performance.
I gladly accept praise and congratulations, don't want to be an
ingrate. Guess I'm just saying, I'll personally feel a marathon race
where I push a notch harder, feel I've unconditionally emptied the
tank by the end, and meet an ambitious time goal, is the big ol' whale
I'm still after - and this race, while fun and gratifying, doesn't
scratch that itch.
But to play devil's advocate to my own curmudgeon... just another
couple miles and I'd have reeled in more runners. Check out the leads
the two guys in front of me had at 16 & 22 miles vs. the finish:
First Last Div 2.9MI 5.8MI 9.5MI 16MI 22.6MI
CHIP_TIME
Rupert Green M3039 15:39 31:59 53:27 1:30:56 2:08:44
2:31:49
Linton McKenzie M4049 15:38 31:58 53:26 1:32:15 2:13:06
2:40:10
Justin Henry M2029 19:35 39:19 1:04:36 1:48:10 2:30:32 2:55:11
Colin Graham M4049 17:32 - 1:01:14 1:46:06 2:32:41
3:02:50
David Adams M2029 16:18 33:43 57:02 1:40:22 2:31:31 3:03:12
Eldon Miller M2029 16:20 33:45 57:20 1:41:30 2:28:57 3:04:41
Charlie Pendejo M4049 20:21 41:01 1:08:08 1:57:52 2:45:34
3:12:55
> Good she finished. Bummer she finished in the condition she did.
> Hope she can still enjoy the rest of the weekend.
At least it gets her lots of sympathy and attention everywhere she
goes. And endless unsolicited advice and even pharmaceutical
donations.
Doug:
> After you retire try the Escarpment - it's only 30k.
I'm too lazy to actually find, copy, and paste; but let's pretend I
sent you some rude ASCII art gesture ala TheBillRodgers.
I'll run (or hike - I'm no mountain goat like Tony) the Escarpment
when you switch focus from ultras to either 800m or steeplechase. ;-)
Anthony:
> More than survived it - looks like you ran a great race. Got the
> training and conditioning and execution right.
Thanks. I'll take credit for execution, and for the heat acclimation
aspect of training - probably nailed that as well as possible given
NYC Nov & Dec weather.
Certainly for the next one - which should be in 11 months, and planned
well in advance unlike this spontaneous one - I'll train with more
volume for more months, and have more than just two training runs in
excess of 12 miles. I don't feel the need for many 20M/30k, but a
consistent ~two hour weekly run, 15-16 miles, should get me most of
the way there.
> Always a pleasant bonus to score an award
Indeed. Plus I get 10,000 bucks. Jamaican dollars, that is, which
like the Japanese yen comes to about an American penny. My first ever
cash award.
I'd just as soon they ship me USD$100 worth of jerk chicken and curry
goat and Blue Mountain coffee, but that's not listed as an option.
Doug Freese
"John Hurley" <johnb...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:0403f5d7-8dec-42ef...@o23g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 6, 7:12 am, "Doug Freese" <dfre...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
snip
> > I've always said, I like the heat and the idea of Badwater... just
> > not
> > the distance. I have zero interest in running more than 26 miles. I
> > have almost zero interest in running 26 miles, though this one was
> > appealing as a vacation, and I'm committed to doing what I can to
> > finally run a good one in NY in 11 months. After that I may retire
> > from the distance.
> Not quite sure how old you are Charlie but I made a similar decision a
while back. One of the smarter running related decisions I ever made
( not that there are many to choose from ).>
At the moment I've given up 100 miles races and opting for 100k. The
wisdom of age.
> After you retire try the Escarpment - it's only 30k.
>Sounds like Doug is trying to kill you off!>
Who me? Merely offering Sir Charles a shorter challenge.;)
-D
jobs
> Doug:
>> So what were
>> temp/humidity conditions? You anticipated or at least described some
>> rather harsh conditions which most replied to be careful, not wishing
>> any evil thoughts. Now that your a puffed up heat runner I would expect
>> you sign up for Badwater and show some real moxy. ;)
>
> According to http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/MKJS/2009/12/5/DailyHistory.html
> it appears temp at the start was about 80, close to 88 at my finish.
> Those poor 5-6 hour marathoners got the worst of the heat. Dew point
> in the 73-75 range.
>
> Though the heat for sure slowed me, it didn't bum me out at all.
> Dunno if that's because I always like the heat, or my couple weeks of
> training all bundled up, or maybe the three days of fever a few weeks
> back really did help. This heat definitely seemed less oppressive
> than that fever.
You should've gone and stayed there a few months ahead of time. That
way, you'd have gotten island fever and maybe in conjuction with all the
other heat/fever it would've made you better equipped to run faster.
But, seriously, congrats on a good race, especially in such warm conditions.
> I've always said, I like the heat and the idea of Badwater... just not
> the distance.
Maybe you should talk to Steve. He knows races run in the heat and in
kms not miles. I'm sure he could do with a running comrade.
Enjoy your recovery.
jobs
Bart Mathias
> On Dec 6, 7:12 am, "Doug Freese" <dfre...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> snip
>
>>> I've always said, I like the heat and the idea of Badwater... just not
>>> the distance. I have zero interest in running more than 26 miles. I
>>> have almost zero interest in running 26 miles, though this one was
>>> appealing as a vacation, and I'm committed to doing what I can to
>>> finally run a good one in NY in 11 months. After that I may retire
>>> from the distance.
>
> Not quite sure how old you are Charlie
Betcha a dollar he's still somewhere in his 40s! The way he talks
sometimes I thought he was middle-aged at least.
Bart
Charlie Pendejo
> Betcha a dollar he's still somewhere in his 40s! The way he talks
> sometimes I thought he was middle-aged at least.
Heh, old enough to be a curmudgeon and to take my leave from the
nightly party hours earlier than my energizer-bunny running partner.
Young and foolish enough to have done a cliff jump at Rick's (the
original Negril hot spot, it seems) last night, from we're all
guessing about 60 feet. For better or worse I hadn't seen this:
http://www.rickscafenegril.com/
While my legs are ready to resume daily running - the ocean seems to
do a world of good - now I'm beat up enough to give it a rest for some
days. Upon hitting the water I felt I'd been kicked in the sternum by
a mule, and that sensation persists. Luckily it only hurts when I
move my arms, or chest, or shoulders, or if I cough or breathe. It's
nothing to do with the heart or anything - it's clearly some bit of
this runner's underdeveloped upper-body muscle which probably got
strained as the water impact whipped my arms above my head or some
such.
Daniel
> . . .
>To the dismay of some wreck.runners including those vultures hoping to
>scavenge my size 8's, I survived it. Guess I BQ'd. . .
>
>. . . (3rd M40, 7th male, 9th overall). . . .
Charlie, let me add a "me too" to this thread. You've gone through a lot the
last year+ with health, etc. You've made a lot of progress back to form! I also
want to thank you for your writing here at rec.running -- what would I do
without the posts of CP and your occassional gem of wonderprose? Don't get
*too* lost in rec.rumming now... ;-)
--
Daniel ( deltae...@usa.net )
Dot
> Thanks, all, for the congrats.
>
>
> Dot:
>> This sounds like an awesome race. How many people?
>
> It really is. Of course its being a hot road race makes it the
> antithesis of your kind of course and conditions.
You got that right.:)
But yeah, it's a
> special race.
>
> 126 finishers, says the results. Considerably more ran the half
> marathon - four or five hundred? - and there was an awful lot of
> overlap between 21k and 42k runners finishing. Also a 10k but I think
> the half was the biggest race. Next year's the 10th running, and
> everyone seems to expect a bigger race (and bigger parties, natch).
>
> I believe over 300 volunteers, so we were well cared for.
Sounds like a super experience.
Not sure if you might be looking for an April marathon, but someone
posted about this new one - must meet qualifications to enter (no
charity runners).
http://www.exetermarathon.com/index.html
Dot
jobs
> Charlie Pendejo wrote:
...
> Not sure if you might be looking for an April marathon, but someone
> posted about this new one - must meet qualifications to enter (no
> charity runners).
>
> http://www.exetermarathon.com/index.html
>
> Dot
Only $40 for a marathon? Is it the recession or the "special
introductory promo"?
jobs
Dot
My understanding is that this is being put on as a race, so none of the
showy stuff of the pricey marathons. The guy that posted it (one of the
more knowledgeable posters) knows the RD so was aware of it. It was
posted as an alternative to Boston in the spring, esp. since Boston
filled so early this year - so much for late fall qualifiers. And the
only way to get in is to qualify. I think the times are just a little
more stringent than Boston, but not OTQ level, so it's still accessible
to recreational runners.
There's a 3-dimensional one in fall in Fairbanks for the same price if
you register at least 1.5 wks in advance. $60 race day.
Dot
Ed Prochak
[]
>
> While my legs are ready to resume daily running - the ocean seems to
> do a world of good - now I'm beat up enough to give it a rest for some
> days. Upon hitting the water I felt I'd been kicked in the sternum by
> a mule, and that sensation persists. Luckily it only hurts when I
> move my arms, or chest, or shoulders, or if I cough or breathe. It's
> nothing to do with the heart or anything - it's clearly some bit of
> this runner's underdeveloped upper-body muscle which probably got
> strained as the water impact whipped my arms above my head or some
> such.
Sorry I'm late with my congrats, but WAY TO GO!
And relaxing by the ocean is great. Be careful in the water. I hurt my
shoulder a few years ago and it seem to take months to heal.
Great race. and thanks for the reports.It was interesting how you were
gaining on those two other runners. And only about 700 runners in both
races with 300 volunteers. Wow! It sounds like a nice race: small
field, lots of support, ocean views, palm trees, rum punch
afterwords.
Glad you are back safe.
Enjoy the run.
ed