Making 26.2 Work for All of Us
Michelle
Making 26.2 Work for All of Us
by Melissa Field
�
The New York Times recently published an article entitled, Plodders Have a
Place, but Is It in a Marathon? This article, as the title gives away,
argues that some runners are simply too slow to run a marathon.�� I read
this article in horror and was relieved to see, among the many comments, a
post from Tish Hamilton, Executive Editor of Runner�s World magazine.�
Since I can�t say it any better, I will quote her:
Really, what amazes me most about this article is that the writer was
able to find people who'd go on record (on the front page of the
NYT!) dissing other marathoners. In my experience, runners welcome
anyone who wants to put one foot in front of the other, mile after
mile.
I have completed 35 marathons--in times ranging from 3:29 (yay! in
ideal conditions) to 5:45 (ouch, when temps reached 95). I was
well-trained, fit, and under age 40 when I ran both races, and
because the slower time was so much harder--I ran, I walked, I
staggered--I will never be able to say to anyone, no matter what
their finish time, that they didn't really "run" a marathon. If
anyone thinks running 26.2 miles "not a big deal," please come join
me for my next marathon, and we'll have plenty of time to discuss
that issue! :)
Amen Tish!
And here�s my addition: Dear Runners, would it kill you to be nice and
supportive?� Because really, one day you might run well, and the next day,
well, life has a way of humbling us all. I can promise you that running, if
it hasn�t already, will humble you, too.
If you are concerned about the �swelling of the marathon�, may I suggest
that you instead concern yourself with the swelling of our nation�s
waistline?� The CDC produces a map tracking the alarming increase in
obesity from 1985-2008.� This map is cause for concern, especially when you
stop to consider the consequences of obesity: diabetes, heart disease, and
even death.� And yet, in the midst of this public health epidemic, we run.�
We line-up to run 26.2 miles because we believe in living this lifestyle;
and if we are kind and encouraging to others, they will join.� If we are
elitist and judgmental, we will make others feel excluded and intimidated,
not inspired.�
Is it important to take the marathon seriously, and most of us can agree
that doing something purely for show, or without dedication, is not
admirable.� But instead of criticizing slow runners, criticize the
marathoners who run without love or passion for the sport.� This fall,
thousands of runners will line up to run a marathon. �Some will run for the
first time and some will run for the 50th.
When I run, it is that sound�that only in a marathon sound of thousands of
running feet�that gets me through.� That sound comforts me.� There are few
times in life when people unite, not in protest or anger, but in
celebration of perseverance and a better life.� So let our running movement
grow, let our marathon streets swell, and let our feet be inspired by the
sound of other feet.�
Fast or slow, we are better when we run together.
--
26.2 Because I can
Doug Freese
"Michelle" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
news:michelle-C74AE5...@nothing.attdns.com...
> <http://www.philadelphiarunner.com/making262.html>
> Fast or slow, we are better when we run together.
IMO, the only time limitation for a matathon should be the time the race
can keep the course safely open - period!
Very Horatio Alger but not always possible. We we must keep in mind that
cities, towns, parks and specifically volunteers have a say in how long
to keep the course open. This does not mean there aren't RDs out there
that won't set that barrier according to their time standards.
We as runners always have the right not to do the race if the you feel
they aren't being being reasonable. OTOH once you sign up, they also
have the right to enforce the cutoffs.
-D
Charlie Pendejo
> IMO, the only time limitation for a matathon should be the time the race
> can keep the course safely open - period!
OK, but how about for a 24 hour race? If it's no hazard or nuisance
to the general citizenry, should they keep the course open 36 hours
for the slower runners? ;-)
John Hurley
snip
> > IMO, the only time limitation for a matathon should be the time the race
> > can keep the course safely open - period!
Is a matathon what Doug does with his female training partners???
Doug Freese
"Charlie Pendejo" <charlie...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:87bff905-8057-4080...@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
It should be spelled out on the registration form. This is always
covered in my races. If you do continue when it is not allowed, you
will never run the race again with a number nor get listed in the
results. And you will starve to death or die of thirst if you think you
will get support.
It doesn't matter if it's 5k or 100 miles, when you sign up you agree to
abide by the rules even if the RD is a snob and sets 4 hour limit to a
marathon. Ultra races have the same issues as marathons with time
constraints. We get our share of people that think volunteers should
stay out forever so they can finish.
This fun digression aside, how long should a marathon keep the course
open assuming no local restrictions?
-D
DC
> This fun digression aside, how long should a marathon keep the course
> open assuming no local restrictions?
5 days?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2430091.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1939394.stm
6 days?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/london_marathon_2003/2960025.stm
Doug Freese
"John Hurley" <johnb...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:5a9247c6-772e-49e2...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
snip
A few more 50k's under your belt and you undertand those are mere
sprints. ;)
-D
Michelle
"Doug Freese" <dfr...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
> This fun digression aside, how long should a marathon keep the course
> open assuming no local restrictions?
As long as the race director chooses, but he (or she) should choose in
advance and let all the participants know.
John Hurley
snip
> It doesn't matter if it's 5k or 100 miles, when you sign up you agree to
> abide by the rules even if the RD is a snob and sets 4 hour limit to a
> marathon. Ultra races have the same issues as marathons with time
> constraints. We get our share of people that think volunteers should
> stay out forever so they can finish.
>
> This fun digression aside, how long should a marathon keep the course
> open assuming no local restrictions?
Many marathons a long time back closed the course at 4 1/2 or 5 hours.
Some kind of reasonable limit might be around 2 1/2 or 3 times the
winners time. Other people would like time limits to be 4 or 5 times
the winners time I guess.
There is not a whole lot of racing or running going on when you go
past the 2 or 2 1/2 times the winners times but there are people doing
their best I guess.
Maybe each marathon should be required to keep the course officially
open for a week so everyone feels happy? People could do 4 miles a
day and camp out along the way!
Doug Freese
We agree and it should be stated on the entry form to avoid any
conflict!
-D
Doug Freese
On Nov 20, 4:59 pm, "Doug Freese" <dfre...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
> Many marathons a long time back closed the course at 4 1/2 or 5 hours.
True but many more people are running marathons to stay healthy and
control weight. While pace is important to some, for others simply
getting to the finish line is a major accomplishment. The push for
better health and less weight has levitated people off their asses and
to the starting line. Considering the obesity issues this is giant shove
in the positive direction.
With the influx of new runners RD's will have to be more cognizant and
stretch the times.
Now if we can only get some health care approved where preventative
medicine can be encouraged, we would get ahead health wise.
> There is not a whole lot of racing or running going on when you go
past the 2 or 2 1/2 times the winners times but there are people doing
their best I guess.>
If their best is to get to the finish line - exactly! 5-7 hours of
wahtever is better than staying on the couch begging for additional
weight and further complications.
> Maybe each marathon should be required to keep the course officially
open for a week so everyone feels happy? People could do 4 miles a
day and camp out along the way!>
Or take the summer do the entire Appalachian Trail carrying your own
food and water doing what ever number of miles a day you want. ;) We
can't please all the people....
-D
Michelle
"Doug Freese" <dfr...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
> > As long as the race director chooses, but he (or she) should choose in
> > advance and let all the participants know.
>
> We agree and it should be stated on the entry form to avoid any
> conflict!
Yup. The Rock and Roll Marathons have a 7-hour time limit from the
starting gun. The Nike Women's Marathon has a 6.5-hour time limit from (I
believe) the time the last starter crosses the starting line. All spelled
out in advance literature and on the registration forms.
Edward Edmonds
> Is it important to take the marathon seriously, and most of us can agree
> that doing something purely for show, or without dedication, is not
> admirable. But instead of criticizing slow runners, criticize the
> marathoners who run without love or passion for the sport.
+1
Remember this thread?
I'm sure my comments were a bit cruddy possibly misunderstood; but what
Michelle wrote above is basically how I feel on the issue except put in
a much more nicer and considerate way.
Honestly it's not the slow pokes that bother me, it's the slow pokes who
don't respect the distance and don't take it seriously, those are the
ones that really spoil it.
EE
Michelle
Edward Edmonds <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/20/2009 5:01 PM, Michelle wrote:
> > Is it important to take the marathon seriously, and most of us can
> > agree that doing something purely for show, or without dedication, is
> > not admirable. But instead of criticizing slow runners, criticize the
> > marathoners who run without love or passion for the sport.
>
> +1
>
> Remember this thread?
>
> http://bit.ly/4IC6Ja
>
> I'm sure my comments were a bit cruddy possibly misunderstood; but what
> Michelle wrote above is basically how I feel on the issue except put in
> a much more nicer and considerate way.
I didn't write that; I quoted it.
Charlie Pendejo
>>> IMO, the only time limitation for a matathon should be the time the
>>> race can keep the course safely open - period!
pendejo:
>> OK, but how about for a 24 hour race? If it's no hazard or nuisance
>> to the general citizenry, should they keep the course open 36 hours
>> for the slower runners? ;-)
Doug:
> It should be spelled out on the registration form. This is always
> covered in my races.
Zounds, I don't know whether to laugh or sigh.
Let's try again.
OK, but how about a six day race? Keep the course open nine days for
the slower runners?
bgl
news:he7lg6$q1j$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> Honestly it's not the slow pokes that bother me, it's the slow pokes who
> don't respect the distance and don't take it seriously, those are the ones
> that really spoil it.
>
What do you mean by "take it seriously?"
bj
Edward Edmonds
Ah, I thought the part after "Amen Tish!" was you.
Edward Edmonds
> What do you mean by "take it seriously?"
If you'd like to make a point make it, don't instigate.
Dot
Are you talking course time opening for a marathon or for an actual
24-hr race? Your first post sounded like you were talking about 24-hr
races - which are usually on somewhat closed courses (trails, track,
whatever, and not public roads) so yes, they are kept open for 24 hrs.
duh. Actually, depending on the race, the trails may be open to the
public. But maybe that's not what you meant. (sorry, first dark run in a
while and still thawing ;) )
Dot
Doug Freese
"Edward Edmonds" <edward....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:he7lg6$q1j$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> who don't respect the distance and don't take it seriously, those are
> the ones that really spoil it.
Define seriuosly?
-D
Ed Prochak
>
> It doesn't matter if it's 5k or 100 miles, when you sign up you agree to
> abide by the rules even if the RD is a snob and sets 4 hour limit to a
> marathon. Ultra races have the same issues as marathons with time
> constraints. We get our share of people that think volunteers should
> stay out forever so they can finish.
>
> This fun digression aside, how long should a marathon keep the course
> open assuming no local restrictions?
>
> -D
By way of agreeing with you, I'll say, they should keep it open at
least as long as the published time limit.
That was my complaint to the Cleveland marathon. I finished in 5:19.
The cutoff time was 5:30. I was lucky to get water!
Three cheers to the massage volunteers who were still there and
helping tired, sore muscles. This was a long time ago, but it was the
only bad spot in an otherwise great experience.
I am sure there will be directors that can keep the course open for
8hours and other that have to close after 4 hours. If you are a five
hour runner, don't sign up for the latter race. I think most marathons
are around the 5hour mark for closing time, so I don't think too many
are being left out. Buyer beware is appropriate here.
If they can keep the course open for the final stragglers, (maybe with
a small number of volunteers at the finish) then it would be nice for
them to do it. But if I'm a past limit straggler, I would not expect
it.
that's just me.
Enjoy the run, however long it takes!
ed
Ed Prochak
Admirable for their efforts but not really the focus here. Both had
their own support teams. so there was little burden on the race
director's team (just keeping the time clock going I guess). So
there's the official course closing time and the "special events"
course closing time?
Really the diving suit guy is a special event, not a runner. (did I
really say that?)
ed
Ed Prochak
> "Edward Edmonds" <edward.edmo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
You spent time preparing.
You are NOT taking it seriously no matter what your finishing time if:
you signed up "on a whim", with no planning or training, as your first
race.
you signed up because your buddy is doing it and you can't let him be
better than you in anything.
you signed up because you just saw a replay of "Rocky" or "Chariots of
Fire".
you signed up because you are a weight lifter, so you should be able
to beat most of those skinny a**ed runners.
If you talk to folks before the race, you could find a few of these
types of folks out. There aren't many, but they are there. You cannot
tell just by their finish time.
HTH,
ed
Edward Edmonds
+1
Doug Freese
> OK, but how about a six day race? Keep the course open nine days for
> the slower runners?
I think I already answered this. If not let's try again.
If the course is open to the public with no restrictions then let the
runners go on for weeks or months.
If you expect the RD and the volunteers to hang out the extra time, hell
no! That is why the longer races have documented cutoffs.
Did that answer it or is there something I 'm missing?
-D
Doug Freese
> On 11/21/2009 5:36 AM, bgl wrote:
>> What do you mean by "take it seriously?"
>
> If you'd like to make a point make it, don't instigate.
It was a perfectly valid question which I also asked. You are wrapping
your position using the concept seriously and the term is at best vague.
It's almost meaningful as because."
-D
John Hurley
snip
> I am sure there will be directors that can keep the course open for
> 8hours and other that have to close after 4 hours. If you are a five
> hour runner, don't sign up for the latter race. I think most marathons
> are around the 5hour mark for closing time, so I don't think too many
> are being left out. Buyer beware is appropriate here.
I think you are way off here now Ed as I understand the way many
marathons are now being run.
A lot of the people in the complete-a-thon category want to have a 6
or 7 hour finish time ( or above ).
Doug Freese
On Nov 21, 8:45 pm, Ed Prochak <edproc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A lot of the people in the complete-a-thon category want to have a 6
> or 7 hour finish time ( or above ).
I think a 6 or 7 hour max is great and yes even with your
"complete-a-thon" dig. Make it 12 hours if it gets more people out of
the house and doing some exercise.
Ed Prochak
> On Nov 21, 8:45 pm, Ed Prochak <edproc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> snip
>
> > I am sure there will be directors that can keep the course open for
> > 8hours and other that have to close after 4 hours. If you are a five
> > hour runner, don't sign up for the latter race. I think most marathons
> > are around the 5hour mark for closing time, so I don't think too many
> > are being left out. Buyer beware is appropriate here.
>
> I think you are way off here now Ed as I understand the way many
> marathons are now being run.
I'm not sure I understand what part you think is way off.
>
> A lot of the people in the complete-a-thon category want to have a 6
> or 7 hour finish time ( or above ).
I wasn't advocating for any particular time. I was saying you should
check before entering a marathon.
Checking a google search
Melbourne St George marathon forces runners off road after about 4
hours. (could not find a fixed cut off time.)
Tallahassee Marathon - "Please note there is a six-hour cut off for
the main field. Anyone on the course after 1:30 p.m. will be 'swept
up' and transported back to the finish area."
That's an interesting option.
From a runner's world posting:
Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:33 pm Post subject: Marathon cut-off time
Next weekend we have an "Eco marathon" sponsored by Nedbank where the
cut-off time is 4 1/2 hours.
There's a short one.
Lake Chelan Shore to Shore Marathon
Time Limit: 6 Hours (cut-off time is 1:00 PM PST).
There's a longer one (that I might be able to finish!)
Catalina Marathon Event Information
An 8 hour cut-off time will be enforced for the Marathon.
And even longer.
The above was not a scientific sample.
Who gets put in the complete-a-thon category seems to vary based on
the poster's personal bias. I've been put in that category by some.
There are some runners that fall in that category from my bias (they
fit that "not taking it seriously" group.) All I can say again is you
cannot tell how serious a runner is simply by the finishing time.
I do not mind cut off times. I do not mind marathons with Qualifying
times (e.g., Boston). Will I ever qualify for Boston? Not likely. Will
I ever run a sub 4hour marathon? not likely. It's not because I don't
take my running seriously. Even at the back of the pack, I am running
to beat you.
My points again are
1. you can find a race which suits your needs if you look.
My search above was for "marathon cut off times" without location
criteria. If you are a slower runner, you may have to travel.
2. you should respect the cut off times.
If you are a slower runner, you should not expect support once the
course closes. Know thyself! I would not register for that Eco
Marathon because I could not finish under that time limit.
3. I am not asking for longer cut off times.
If I cannot find a marathon that I can complete within the limits,
I'll just run on my own. I've done it before. and I know I'll run that
far again.
4. you cannot tell how serious a runner is simply by finishing time.
Enjoying the run from the pack of the pack,
ed
Doug Freese
"Ed Prochak" <edpr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b32c3339-6c65-4af1...@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 22, 6:39 am, John Hurley <johnbhur...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On Nov 21, 8:45 pm, Ed Prochak <edproc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I do not mind cut off times. I do not mind marathons with Qualifying
times (e.g., Boston). Will I ever qualify for Boston? Not likely. Will
I ever run a sub 4hour marathon? not likely. It's not because I don't
take my running seriously. Even at the back of the pack, I am running
to beat you. <
Boston was always a "limited" race through qualify times. Originally I
think the qualifying times were set high to establish an elite race.
Then, as most in life, sponsors came, maybe costs rose but money was to
be made. Now they are going in waves and I wonder if they will allow
even more to run contrary to the size of Hopkinton?
>>My points again are
1. you can find a race which suits your needs if you look.
My search above was for "marathon cut off times" without location
criteria. If you are a slower runner, you may have to travel.
2. you should respect the cut off times.
If you are a slower runner, you should not expect support once the
course closes. Know thyself! I would not register for that Eco
Marathon because I could not finish under that time limit.
3. I am not asking for longer cut off times.
If I cannot find a marathon that I can complete within the limits,
I'll just run on my own. I've done it before. and I know I'll run that
far again.
4. you cannot tell how serious a runner is simply by finishing time.>>
I don't see how anyone can disagree?
> Enjoying the run from the back of the pack,
And I'm starting to work my way to the back rather quickly. The 60+
slope is steep and not upward.
-D
John Hurley
snip
> > > I am sure there will be directors that can keep the course open for
> > > 8hours and other that have to close after 4 hours. If you are a five
> > > hour runner, don't sign up for the latter race. I think most marathons
> > > are around the 5hour mark for closing time, so I don't think too many
> > > are being left out. Buyer beware is appropriate here.
>
> > I think you are way off here now Ed as I understand the way many
> > marathons are now being run.
>
> I'm not sure I understand what part you think is way off.
No survey done no need for extreme accuracy but my guess is that very
few marathons these days close at 5 hours or under.
If you find an example or two of ones that do they will be the
exceptions.
These days there are a whole bunch of paying customers in many "races"
that apparently are finishing past the 5 hour time frame and beyond.
anders
> Did that answer it or is there something I'm missing?
Dunno, but it would appear that you have never heard the one about the
guy whose PB in the Cooper test was the same as <insert the name of
any famous distance runner of the 70's>.
Anders
Charlie Pendejo
>> OK, but how about a six day race? Keep the course open nine days for
>> the slower runners?
Doug:
> is there something I 'm missing?
Yeah, the race spec: it's a race that lasts precisely six days.
Whoever covers the most distance wins. I was just trying to make a
ridiculous hypothetical for a cheap laugh.
DC
>
> Checking a google search
> Melbourne St George marathon forces runners off road after about 4
> hours. (could not find a fixed cut off time.)
>
> Tallahassee Marathon - "Please note there is a six-hour cut off for
> the main field. Anyone on the course after 1:30 p.m. will be 'swept
> up' and transported back to the finish area."
> That's an interesting option.
>
> From a runner's world posting:
> Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:33 pm Post subject: Marathon cut-off time
> Next weekend we have an "Eco marathon" sponsored by Nedbank where the
> cut-off time is 4 1/2 hours.
> There's a short one.
>
> Lake Chelan Shore to Shore Marathon
> Time Limit: 6 Hours (cut-off time is 1:00 PM PST).
> There's a longer one (that I might be able to finish!)
>
> Catalina Marathon Event Information
> An 8 hour cut-off time will be enforced for the Marathon.
> And even longer.
>
> The above was not a scientific sample.
More examples from across the pond:
"2.3 The Event Organiser may introduce cut off times *as they see fit*
as part of the Event rules ..."
https://www.edenproject.com/documents/MarathonEntryTermsandConditions.pdf
5 hours:
http://www.lanzarote.com/blog/marathon-lanzarote-ciudad-de-arrecife-nov-08/
"...Please only enter the marathon if you can finish in under 5.5hrs..."
http://home.btconnect.com/r2d2/clarendon/forms/2009entryform.pdf
6 hours:
http://www.shakespearemarathon.org.uk/Forms/TransferRequest2010.pdf
6 hours:
http://www.marathonrunnersdiary.com/races/europe-marathons/madrid-marathon.php
"With an eight-hour cut-off time, the marathon is accessible to anyone
even if they decide to walk most of the way."
http://www.capetownmarathon.org.za/
2.5 hours for a half:
http://www.crickladefunrun.co.uk/maps.html
3 hours for a half:
http://www.racenewforest.co.uk/08_09_runningevents.html
3.5 hours for a half:
http://www.royalparkshalf.com/runners/faq/
Doug Freese
Doug:
> is there something I 'm missing?
>>Yeah, the race spec: it's a race that lasts precisely six days.
Whoever covers the most distance wins. I was just trying to make a
ridiculous hypothetical for a cheap laugh.>>
I'm usually a little quicker on the uptake but I guess not this time.
Senility on my part.
-D
Ed Prochak
> "Ed Prochak" <edproc...@gmail.com> wrote
[]
> > Enjoying the run from the back of the pack,
>
> And I'm starting to work my way to the back rather quickly. The 60+
> slope is steep and not upward.
>
> -D
Well, I've been back here pretty much my whole running career. I don't
have the luxury of blaming my age. 8^)
At 55 I'm not that far behind you. Like you I'm fighting the decline
as much as possible.
Ed