Training week ending Nov 29 2009
John Hurley
goals.
Michelle
<a7414146-ed71-4dcb...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
John Hurley <johnb...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Greetings wreck runners! Please tell us about your training week and
> goals.
Week 11 of marathon training. �This is the longest week of the plan, 36
miles. �Today was my last day to run this month; I ran 125 miles in the
month, making it the most mileage I've ever run in one month.
11/24: �05 miles �1:08:33 (13:42 pace)
11/25: �08 miles �1:46:02 (13:11 pace)
11/26: �05 miles �1:05:57 (13:11 pace)
11/28: �18 miles �4:24:27 (14:42 pace) plus 1:33 waiting for traffic lights
(4:26:01 total time, for a 14:46 pace)
The lowlight of today's run was miles 15 through 17; there was a hellacious
headwind that slowed me down to 16:03, 15:42, and 15:10 for those three
miles, respectively.
The highlights of today's run were
1. �Being able to kick in the last tenth of a mile at an 11:31 pace, and
2. �Seeing a cow trying to give a piggyback ride to a bull (or maybe
another cow; it had short horns, like Elsie's.)
Vegas half marathon in eight days. �PF Chang marathon in 50 days.
-- Michelle
--
26.2 Because I can
Bart Mathias
> In article
> <a7414146-ed71-4dcb...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
> John Hurley <johnb...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> Greetings wreck runners! Please tell us about your training week and
>> goals.
>
> Week 11 of marathon training. This is the longest week of the plan, 36
> miles. Today was my last day to run this month; I ran 125 miles in the
> month, making it the most mileage I've ever run in one month.
>
> 11/24: 05 miles 1:08:33 (13:42 pace)
> 11/25: 08 miles 1:46:02 (13:11 pace)
> 11/26: 05 miles 1:05:57 (13:11 pace)
> 11/28: 18 miles 4:24:27 (14:42 pace) plus 1:33 waiting for traffic lights
Do you hit your lap button instead of the stop button, and then add up
all those short "laps"? What about at water stops.
What we lazy folk tend to do is save the effort, log the whole time, and
put "inc. h20 and red lights" in the comments column.
On days I really felt like proving something to myself, it was just
"Stop," "Start"; no comments. (I justified stopping my watch at water
stops on the grounds that I wouldn't really slow down much in a race.)
Bart
Michelle
Bart Mathias <mat...@hawaii.edu> wrote:
> > 11/24: 05 miles 1:08:33 (13:42 pace)
> > 11/25: 08 miles 1:46:02 (13:11 pace)
> > 11/26: 05 miles 1:05:57 (13:11 pace)
> > 11/28: 18 miles 4:24:27 (14:42 pace) plus 1:33 waiting for traffic lights
>
> Do you hit your lap button instead of the stop button, and then add up
> all those short "laps"?
What laps? Those were total distances and times for each of those days.
> What about at water stops.
There were no water stops.
> What we lazy folk tend to do is save the effort, log the whole time, and
> put "inc. h20 and red lights" in the comments column.
The software that I use with the Garmin tells me the total time and the
moving time. I subtracted the moving time from the total time to find the
wait time.
Ed Prochak
> Greetings wreck runners! Please tell us about your training week and
> goals.
Hopefully my work will change soon and I can get onto a more
predictable schedule, but here goes this week:
SUN 22Nov 5mile 57:09
MON DNR
TUE 3mile 32:04
WED DNR
THU 1mile barefoot (no time)
FRI 5mile 56:39
Total 14miles.
The Sunday run according to USATF Map ( http://www.usatf.org/routes/map/
) was only 4.7mile. I changed the route on Friday and ended up just
under 5.2miles. So at least the total is not off by much.
Goals:
A December 5K race and Half marathon next spring.
Enjoy the run.
Ed
John Hurley
snip
> Goals:
> A December 5K race and Half marathon next spring.
What 5k are you thinking about? We have been cross posting so long
maybe we could meet up.
The stud muffin combo of Pendejo and I2 would be out gunned but the
danger is of course that you and I might be swarmed with paparazzi!
Charlie Pendejo
Mo: --
Tu: 6
We: 6
Th: 11 including 5M Turkey Trot, recounted separately
Fr: 6
Sa: 12
Su: 7, with 4.5 not too far from a highly unambitious marathon pace
The most important facet of this (and next) week's training is heat
acclimation. It's been consistently about 50F but aside from the
Gobble Gobble race, I've dressed as though it were about 60 degrees
colder. Running pants over tights; two warm top layers plus a shell;
warm gloves and a warm hat. (Incidentally, I disagree with whoever
opined that all winter hats are equivalent - this Windstopper fleece
hat I wore this week is notably warmer than other acrylic or wool hats
in my arsenal.)
Hopefully that counts for something in Negril on Saturday, where even
though the first hour+ of the race precedes sunrise (starts at 5:15),
it appears we can bank on temps starting in mid-70's and rising from
there, with dew point in the 71-74F range.
Will probably take Tu & Fr off, and run about six miles each Mo, We,
Th. The evening after the 42k I fully expect to eat an entire curried
goat in one sitting, accompanied by a giant flowerpot full of rum
punch (glutenous Red Stripe being out of the question for wheat-
allergic me).
upcoming:
5 Dec: Reggae Marathon (Negril, Jamaica)
12 Dec - NYRR Holiday 5k - paid for but highly unlikely
19 Dec - NYRR Ted Corbitt 15k - also doubtful
I2Run
| Greetings wreck runners! Please tell us about your training week and
| goals.
Mon: DNR, Travel
Tue: DNR
Wed: 7.0 mi
Thu: 9.5 mi
Fri: 6.3 mi
Sun: 14.1 mi, incl HM in 1:34:27
Mon: 5.1 mi
Tue: 7.3 mi
Wed: 9.5 mi
Thu: 9.2 mi
Fri: 7.2 mi
Sat: DNR, Travel
Sun: 9.0 mi
Total: 84.2 mi ,in dusty, smoky part of the world
I2Run
| Greetings wreck runners! Please tell us about your training week and
| goals.
John Hurley
snip
> Greetings wreck runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.
About 55 miles in this week probably.
No specific races on the horizon but there are a couple of local ones
coming up that I might jump in on. I have not raced in December or
January for probably 14 or 15 years..
Good luck all!
dood
> Greetings wreck runners! Please tell us about your training week and
> goals.
Mon - 3 mi.
Wed - 4 mi.
Fri - 4 mi.
Sun - 8.5 mi.
19.5 mi. total. Best post injury :)
Dave
Tony S.
news:michelle-2E5A24...@nothing.attdns.com...
> In article
> <a7414146-ed71-4dcb...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
> John Hurley <johnb...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> Greetings wreck runners! Please tell us about your training week and
>> goals.
>
> Week 11 of marathon training. This is the longest week of the plan, 36
> miles. Today was my last day to run this month; I ran 125 miles in the
> month, making it the most mileage I've ever run in one month.
>
> 11/24: 05 miles 1:08:33 (13:42 pace)
> 11/25: 08 miles 1:46:02 (13:11 pace)
> 11/26: 05 miles 1:05:57 (13:11 pace)
> 11/28: 18 miles 4:24:27 (14:42 pace) plus 1:33 waiting for traffic
> lights
> (4:26:01 total time, for a 14:46 pace)
>
> The lowlight of today's run was miles 15 through 17; there was a
> hellacious
> headwind that slowed me down to 16:03, 15:42, and 15:10 for those
> three
> miles, respectively.
Why is that a lowlight? If the effort remained the same even though you
were slowed by wind, it doesn't matter at all. Not that I'm suggesting
this to you, but this is why I always train by effort level and
duration, instead of miles and/or pace.
I'm slogging up a technical singletrack section the way I was today, I
only know that section was 12 mins at easy pace. Speed is irrelevant. If
I want to define easy pace beyond feel, which I sometimes do for very
long runs over 3 hours, I will use a HRM to keep my effort below a set
level mostly when going uphill. Similarly, for hard runs, I will set a
lower limit HR for set durations, but feel is good enough for 95% of my
runs.
Especially for long runs, unless one is practicing a specific pace like
marathon pace, just keeping running without much deviation in effort is
enough. Measuring every mile is pointless, especially if your speed is
slowed by a stiff headwind.
-Tony
u j
fuck you w
Bart Mathias
> Greetings wreck runners! Please tell us about your training week and
> goals.
For once it wasn't the same old 8K + 5K + 13K = 26K week, with only
times varying.
Mo 11-23 DNR
Tu 11-24 8K, 52+ min (2 min slower than last week; 6 1/2 min per)
We 11-25 Wednesday hike, easy on legs--mostly machete work
Th 11-26 16K, 1:38 (6.1 min per; usually don't run Th)
Fr 11-27 Usually do a 5K run on Fr, but substituted Th's run.
Sa 11-28 DNR
Su 11-29 11K, 1:16 (7 min per)
Total: 35K, 3:46
I usually do 13K Su but having substituted a 13K for a 5K I cut it to a
gingerly 11K. That's still 9K more than a normal week, a whisker more
than the recommended 10% limit on mileage increases. But next week will
be shorter.
Goal for coming week: do well in next Sunday's SAM's Memorial 5K.
I'd really like to break 19 min, but seeing as how I haven't gone under
20 since my very first 5K in 1986, that's like saying--also true--I'd
really like to fly like a bird.
It's taken me more than 30 minutes four times in 29 races. Last year it
took me 29:22, 4 of 6 in my age group (we get a lot of people here early
for the marathon one week later), so my first goal is to break 30 again,
but I have my sights on 28 something. In the 14 I've done since early
'03, I have one 27:23, one 28:00, and all the rest are worse.
Bart
Bart Mathias
> In article <hes9mj$ei1$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Bart Mathias <mat...@hawaii.edu> wrote:
>
>>> 11/24: 05 miles 1:08:33 (13:42 pace)
>>> 11/25: 08 miles 1:46:02 (13:11 pace)
>>> 11/26: 05 miles 1:05:57 (13:11 pace)
>>> 11/28: 18 miles 4:24:27 (14:42 pace) plus 1:33 waiting for traffic lights
>> Do you hit your lap button instead of the stop button, and then add up
>> all those short "laps"?
>
> What laps? Those were total distances and times for each of those days.
I was thinking watch, not GPS. Every time one hits the Stop button on a
watch, that's another "lap" as far as the watch is concerned. (Humans is
still a shade smarter than watches, I bet.)
>> What about at water stops.
>
> There were no water stops.
Eighteen miles with no water? You are TOUGH!
>> [...
>
> The software that I use with the Garmin tells me the total time and the
> moving time. I subtracted the moving time from the total time to find the
> wait time.
That's neat. My Magellan (which I only use for hikes anyway, aside from
checking my training course distances once) wouldn't do that even if I
threatened it.
Bart
Bart Mathias
> On Nov 28, 8:30 am, John Hurley <johnbhur...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> Greetings wreck runners! Please tell us about your training week and
>> goals.
>
> Hopefully my work will change soon and I can get onto a more
> predictable schedule, but here goes this week:
> SUN 22Nov 5mile 57:09
> MON DNR
> TUE 3mile 32:04
> WED DNR
> THU 1mile barefoot (no time)
> FRI 5mile 56:39
>
> Total 14miles.
>
> The Sunday run according to USATF Map ( http://www.usatf.org/routes/map/
> ) was only 4.7mile. I changed the route on Friday and ended up just
> under 5.2miles. So at least the total is not off by much.
I got curious as to where in the world you run, but that URL just got me
a map of the U.S. I know that's more than 4.7 miles.
Bart
Charlie Pendejo
> I got curious as to where in the world you run, but that URL just got
> me a map of the U.S. I know that's more than 4.7 miles.
Maybe he ran the tangents.
Michelle
Bart Mathias <mat...@hawaii.edu> wrote:
> >> What about at water stops.
> >
> > There were no water stops.
>
> Eighteen miles with no water? You are TOUGH!
Er, no; I carried it with me, and drank on the run. I have this belt that
carries two water bottles. One of them was filled with water and a NUUN
tablet; the other was filled with Cytomax. I rank the NUUN "to my thirst"
and drank one swallow of Cytomax every two miles.
The half marathon (next week) and the marathon (in seven weeks) will be
serving Cytomax about every two miles, so I was trying to emulate that
condition as close as possible. During the races, I'll have only one
bottle, filled with NUUN.
> > The software that I use with the Garmin tells me the total time and
> > the moving time. I subtracted the moving time from the total time to
> > find the wait time.
>
> That's neat. My Magellan (which I only use for hikes anyway, aside from
> checking my training course distances once) wouldn't do that even if I
> threatened it.
The Garmin doesn't give me that total and moving times; the software on my
computer does, using the data from the Garmin. The software is called
Ascent, and works only with Mac OS X.
Oh, if you're curious, that 1:33 was broken down as
5 seconds in the third mile
6 seconds in the fifth mile
8 seconds in the seventh mile
12 seconds in the eighth mile
1:02 in the 15th mile
-- Michelle
Michelle
"Tony S." <noe...@forme.org> wrote:
> > The lowlight of today's run was miles 15 through 17; there was a
> > hellacious headwind that slowed me down to 16:03, 15:42, and 15:10 for
> > those three miles, respectively.
>
> Why is that a lowlight? If the effort remained the same even though you
> were slowed by wind, it doesn't matter at all.
The effort felt much harder in that wind.
> Especially for long runs, unless one is practicing a specific pace like
> marathon pace, just keeping running without much deviation in effort is
> enough. Measuring every mile is pointless, especially if your speed is
> slowed by a stiff headwind.
I had no idea what my paces were for any parts of the run until after I
finished. I set the Garmin to display only the distance, so I would know
when I reached each mile point. I did that for essentially two reasons:
one was so that I would know when to drink the Cytomax and eat a Cliff Shot
Block (Cytomax every even numbered mile, and Block every odd numbered mile
starting at mile 3). The second was to identify landmarks at the mile
points, because this was the first time I had run this route.
Edward Edmonds
> Greetings wreck runners! Please tell us about your training week and
> goals.
This week was a nice & easy. Almost finished with "The Van Aaken Method"
and just started "From Dawn to Decadence - 1500 to Present".
E**2
11/23 - Monday
1 - 40 mins, progression
100 x 1 crunches
2 - 20 mins, fast
100 x 3 crunches (straight, half-bent, bent)
100 x 3 leg lifts
10 x 3 upper body routine w/ 10 lbs.
--------------
11/24
1 - 52 mins, easy
2 - 66 mins, easy
100 x 3 crunches (straight, bent)
100 x 3 lateral crunches (L & R)
100 x 2 lateral leg lifts (L & R)
--------------
11/25
10 x 3 upper body routine w/ 10 lbs.
1 - 64 mins, progression
2 - 41 mins, easy
--------------
Thanksgiving
1 - 26 mins, easy
10 x 3 upper body routine w/ 10 lbs.
100 x 3 crunches (straight)
100 x 3 lateral crunches (L & R)
100 x 1 leg lifts (bent)
--------------
11/27
1 - 30 mins, easy
2 - 34 mins, progression
100 x 3 crunches (straight)
100 x 3 lateral crunches (L & R)
100 x 1 leg lifts
--------------
11/28
1 - 34 mins, easy
2 - 35 mins, easy
100 x 3 crunches (straight)
100 x 3 lateral crunches (L & R)
100 x 1 leg lifts
--------------
11/29
100 x 3 crunches (bent)
100 x 4 leg lifts (bent)
100 x 3 lateral crunches (L & R)
50 x 2 lateral leg lifts
Anthony
Mon: off
Tue: 25km including a 6 x 800m track workout.
My normal training partners were burning through
these at 2:50-2:55 per 800. I was more
conservative and managed 3:12, 3:00, 3:04, 3:03, 3:02, 3:01
with 2 min jog in between. 30' bike
Wed: 2k easy, 20' bike.
Thu: hmm. I don't work Fridays and that has always been
the day for my long runs. I'm currently in the middle of a
course which runs all day Friday - so fitting in my long
runs is a non-trivial exercise. This week Thursday evening/
night got the nod. I started off from home with 3 liters
water in my hydration backpack, and my lamp on my head.
Made it out to trail country within 2 kms, and the going was
quite rocky. Eventually made it onto smoother ground, and
navigated to where I was hoping to get to...Found a steep
climb which meets the trail where I usually run my long runs.
Made it home after about 2:40 and pretty slow going in the
dark and the unsure footing. Managed one face plant but
thankfully only lightly scraped my hands. 25km all up. 20' bike.
Fri: OK. So the course is for running coaches and part of it
is practical. This week was short intensive intervals, but I
pleaded out after the previous night's travails - also I'm really
not into the really fast stuff. Anyway they were doing
some of Anders's ladders :-) 400/300/200/100 with
recoveries 2-3 times the time of the interval. Twice through
these ladders with about 6 mins in between sets. I ran them pretty
slowly, although I did manage a sub-20 100m ;-)...10k all up.
Sat: 1 hour Exercise bike. 35km
Sun: Annual Ergometric stress test. Start at walking pace
for warmup, increases speed to 11kph (6.9mph) and then
increases slope 2% every minute. I made it to 20% and
a heartrate of 176 which shows up as 102% on their
charts (age 48). My actual Max heartrate is probably 182.
Was 183 last year I think... Went for a great 13k cooldown
afterwards next to the Yarkon river in Tel-Aviv.
Total: 77km (48 miles).
Upcoming races:
1/2 Marathon Dec 10
Marathon Jan 7 (won't run this flat out)
100km trail ultra March 5.
Anthony. Jerusalem, Israel.
Dot
> That's neat. My Magellan (which I only use for hikes anyway, aside from
> checking my training course distances once) wouldn't do that even if I
> threatened it.
Most handheld garmins provide that information IF you set it up that
way. Not sure about the Forerunner series. I know sportstracks software
provides it.
Dot
Christos Dimitrakakis
> Greetings wreck runners! Please tell us about your training week and
> goals.
Taking it a bit easy this week with running. Soleus felt OK on
thursday, but after a few minutes of running it started complaining
again. However, two more rest days were enough. Running on
forest/dunes on Sunday was OK.
My Sunday run was interesting because it was the first time I
encountered Dutch buffalo on the marshlands. They were covered in
thick wool and had pretty long and pointy horns. Although they
appeared not to be too interested in people I kept my distance, as I
have had cattle rush me in the past.
Summary
-------
Time Type Volume Time Details
23 Nov ---------- OFF -------------
24 Nov PM Weights @ 60 Squats/Deads 3x10, Back/Shlds 3x10,
Lats/Chest 3x5
25 Nov ---------- OFF -------------
26 Nov AM Run 2 km @ 12 Easy to aid recovery
26 Nov PM Weights @ 30 Lats/Chest 4x10, Back/Shlds 4x5
27 Nov --------- OFF -------------
28 Nov AM Weights 3.2 km @ 60 Squats 4x8, Back/Shlds 3x10, Lats/
Chest 4x5
29 Nov PM Run 7.5 km @ 52 rolling hills, easy
Running: 64 min
Weights: 160 min
Total: 214 min
Parker Race
"John Hurley" <johnb...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:a7414146-ed71-4dcb...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> Greetings wreck runners! Please tell us about your training week and
> goals.
35 tired maybe not allergies but a bug miles:
M: 4 easy
T: off
W: 4 easy
Th: 10 including 10k @ 49:35
F: off
S: 7 roads
Su: 10 trails
Goals: Rest and get healthy.
Get back to one weekly quality session as I feel better.
Races:
Anywhere from 5 to 50k (FA) in Janauary?
HAT run in March 2010
anders
> Greetings wreck runners! Please tell us about your training week and
> goals.
This week the jigsaw puzzle consisted of six 60-minute runs, four 20-
minute sessions of indoor rowing, one 90-minute session or indoor XC-
skiing, one 60-minute session of climbing the stairs of a small
skyjumping hill up and down with (in my case) a small backpack to
accompany a guy who trains for a mountain expedition and one rest day.
Anders
Doug Freese
"Anthony" <ant...@nospam.biu.ac.il> wrote in message
news:hevp1c$tcu$1...@news.iucc.ac.il...
> I'll match Charlie's 48 miles with...
>
> Mon: off
> Tue: 25km including a 6 x 800m track workout.
> My normal training partners were burning through these at 2:50-2:55
> per 800. I was more conservative and managed 3:12, 3:00, 3:04, 3:03,
> 3:02, 3:01
> with 2 min jog in between.
Nice consistent workout.
> 100km trail ultra March 5.
Have you done 100k before?
I have only one and that was this summer. Training wise I treated it
like a long 50 mile, which after the fact, was not enough. My last 12
miles albeit back end loaded with elevation, was too much of a
slowdown by my standards.
Are you going to use single runs or B2B or both for long runs?
Personally I'm going to revert back to the single effort.
-D
Anthony
"Doug Freese" <dfr...@hvc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hf0cpd$m48$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> Have you done 100k before?
Nope. Longest so far was this year's 50 miler.
>
> I have only one and that was this summer. Training wise I treated it like
> a long 50 mile, which after the fact, was not enough. My last 12 miles
> albeit back end loaded with elevation, was too much of a slowdown by my
> standards.
So what would you add or do differently compared to the
50 mile training?
>
> Are you going to use single runs or B2B or both for long runs? Personally
> I'm going to revert back to the single effort.
I managed with the single long runs for the 50 miler, and my
inclination is to stick with that. I may throw in 1 or 2 B2Bs
if I have problems finding the requisite 6-7 hour timeslots for
the really long ones...
Anthony.
Anthony
"anders" <hop....@suomi24.fi> wrote in message
news:a32b6f0d-1a5a-4af2...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> This week the jigsaw puzzle consisted of six 60-minute runs, four 20-
> minute sessions of indoor rowing, one 90-minute session or indoor XC-
> skiing, one 60-minute session of climbing the stairs of a small
> skyjumping hill up and down with (in my case) a small backpack to
> accompany a guy who trains for a mountain expedition and one rest day.
Sounds like a busy week.
And how exactly does indoor skiing work?
Anthony.
anders
> Sounds like a busy week.
If you fancy the recipe, it is simple: morning session, eat, work,
eat, work, evening session, eat and sleep times six. Then you get to
sleep till noon (figuratively) and get up only to watch XC-skiing on
TV:-)
> And how exactly does indoor skiing work?
First you arrange a loan for about 8 million Euros, then erect a
warehouse-type building about the size of a soccer field and use it as
a sort of a giant refrigerator. Add a few small details and you've got
a loop of about 1.2 km complete with 4-6 m high "uphills".
http://www.yllas-halli.fi/pages/content/Page.aspx?menuId=147
Entrance fee is 12 Euros. And as long as the Chinese continue to burn
coal, the size of the carbon footprint probably isn't terribly
important...
Anders
Ed Prochak
> On Nov 29, 2:55 am, Ed Prochak <edproc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> snip
>
> > Goals:
> > A December 5K race and Half marathon next spring.
>
> What 5k are you thinking about? We have been cross posting so long
> maybe we could meet up.
It's the GALlop for children run. I ran it a few years ago. It is a
very flat course.
Sunday, Dec 13
Cleveland
check online at www.hmapromotions.net
It's cheap too, $15 before Dec 9, and only $18 after.
It would be cool to meet up.
>
> The stud muffin combo of Pendejo and I2 would be out gunned but the
> danger is of course that you and I might be swarmed with paparazzi!
yes, it's a terrible burden you and I bear, running with flash bulbs
going off in front of us all the time. With both of us together, the
light intensity might cause some damage, so be sure to bring
sunglasses. 8^)
Ed Prochak
> Ed Prochak wrote:
> > On Nov 28, 8:30 am, John Hurley <johnbhur...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> Greetings wreck runners! Please tell us about your training week and
> >> goals.
>
> > Hopefully my work will change soon and I can get onto a more
> > predictable schedule, but here goes this week:
> > SUN 22Nov 5mile 57:09
> > MON DNR
> > TUE 3mile 32:04
> > WED DNR
> > THU 1mile barefoot (no time)
> > FRI 5mile 56:39
>
> > Total 14miles.
>
> > ) was only 4.7mile. I changed the route on Friday and ended up just
> > under 5.2miles. So at least the total is not off by much.
>
> I got curious as to where in the world you run, but that URL just got me
> a map of the U.S. I know that's more than 4.7 miles.
>
> Bart
Sorry, I did not save that particular route. I was just referring to
how I measured it. Here I did it again:
www.usatf.org/routes/view.asp?rID=338480
Mapping the same route, it now has 4.8miles. (Well at least that gives
me some idea of the error margin.)
Enjoy the run.
D Stumpus
Mon: 11 1500' easy
Tue: 10 1300' easy
Wed: 11 1500' with 2 miles hard (fast running companion)
Thu: 10 1300' easy
Fri: 11 1500 with 1 mile hard (mini race w/another runner)
Sat: 16 2200' easy
Sun: off
69 miles, 9300' climb (weight is undisclosed)
On Wednesday after the first climb in my run, I came up on a young man
(skinny legs, running wear) walking. As I approached he started jogging,
and we started running together.
We talked about running (what else?) and he said he'd run a 3:03 at the LA
marathon on about 40 miles a week training. That's pretty good -- I said
that he could probably get below 2:40 if he got serious. I based that
pronouncement on my own history.
Then he says that his best race this year was a 1500 in 4:04 (!). That's
about a 4:22 mile equivalent, which is elite territory. I'd guess it
relates to a 30-31 minute 10k time, theoretically. He does repeat 200's in
27-28 seconds, which is flying. He did an "easy" 5k in 16:18 recently, too.
Strange thing was that I was pulling him on the downhills. What was not so
strange, is that he was dragging me up the climbs. I got a very solid
couple of miles. My only consolation was that I could finally hear him
breathe on the climb.
Anyway, if there is a moral to this story, it might be how gobs of talent
doesn't get you very far in the marathon if you don't have the base.
Charlie Pendejo
> Anyway, if there is a moral to this story, it might be how gobs of talent
> doesn't get you very far in the marathon if you don't have the base.
Yup... it seems like 42k's the first distance at which we generally
can't "fake it" on less than optimal training.
OTOH here's a younger, femaler, miler who apparently _does_ have the
base: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3321645
Now that's quite the debut!
jobs
> Greetings wreck runners! Please tell us about your training week and
> goals.
M - 5 miles on treadmill @ 8:30
T - 8 miles hilly @ 9:00
W - 9 miles hilly (5 miles tempo-like; a bit difficult to maintain a
steady pace on hilly terrain)
T - 5 miles on treadmill @ 8:30
F - 5 miles @ 8:30
S - -
S - 5 miles on treadmill (4 @ 6:45)
total: 37 miles
jobs
jobs
...
> Sun: 14.1 mi, incl HM in 1:34:27
...
Nice. Was this planned?
> Total: 84.2 mi ,in dusty, smoky part of the world
Different continent?
Btw, are you building up towards a marathon?
jobs
jobs
...
> 2 - 20 mins, fast
> 1 - 52 mins, easy
Just curious, what pace is "fast" (and "easy")?
Bart Mathias
>>> The Sunday run according to USATF Map (http://www.usatf.org/routes/map/
>>> ) was only 4.7mile. I changed the route on Friday and ended up just
>>> under 5.2miles. So at least the total is not off by much.
>> I got curious as to where in the world you run, but that URL just got me
>> a map of the U.S. I know that's more than 4.7 miles.
>
> how I measured it. Here I did it again:
> www.usatf.org/routes/view.asp?rID=338480
> Mapping the same route, it now has 4.8miles. (Well at least that gives
> me some idea of the error margin.)
I'm sorry I misunderstood. But glad you got me to looking again: I
decided to see what it said about my Tuesday morning "5-K." Sure enough,
"2.92 mi," "4.70 km." I can't remember if that's what my GPS said, but
it's about what I've always figured.
Bart
Tony S.
news:michelle-15A343...@nothing.attdns.com...
> In article <hev6i8$49e$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Tony S." <noe...@forme.org> wrote:
>
>> > The lowlight of today's run was miles 15 through 17; there was a
>> > hellacious headwind that slowed me down to 16:03, 15:42, and 15:10
>> > for
>> > those three miles, respectively.
>>
>> Why is that a lowlight? If the effort remained the same even though
>> you
>> were slowed by wind, it doesn't matter at all.
>
> The effort felt much harder in that wind.
So is that why it was a lowlight; you don't like running into the wind?
Listing the times for those 3 miles as you did suggests you were
disappointed with running at a slower pace. Yea there are conditions I
prefer or dislike when running, and those can be 'lowlights', such as
having to run a long straight section on pavement, for example, or even
a flat section of dirt road. I also prefer calm air, 65f, and low
humidity. But that's very rare, so I just stick to effort and duration,
and normally judge the run by how I feel the next day, exceptional runs
in 'the zone' aside.
>> Especially for long runs, unless one is practicing a specific pace
>> like
>> marathon pace, just keeping running without much deviation in effort
>> is
>> enough. Measuring every mile is pointless, especially if your speed
>> is
>> slowed by a stiff headwind.
>
> I had no idea what my paces were for any parts of the run until after
> I
> finished. I set the Garmin to display only the distance, so I would
> know
> when I reached each mile point. I did that for essentially two
> reasons:
> one was so that I would know when to drink the Cytomax and eat a Cliff
> Shot
> Block (Cytomax every even numbered mile, and Block every odd numbered
> mile
> starting at mile 3). The second was to identify landmarks at the mile
> points, because this was the first time I had run this route.
That works. I do a similar thing with some of my runs, but I just note
how long it's taken to get to a particular point, and I will often make
sure to eat every 30 minutes or drink every 15 mins, approximately.
-Tony
Edward Edmonds
HR < 160 is easy and HR > 180 is fast.
Doug Freese
> So what would you add or do differently compared to the
> 50 mile training?
Did more b2b's rather then single long runs. Only only one single 7 1/2
hour and I usually do 2-3 in this range. For general interest there are
are series of runs in the 3- 5 range before these longer efforts. In my
study of one 5 and 2 hours is a hell of easier that a single 7.
>>
>> Are you going to use single runs or B2B or both for long runs?
>> Personally I'm going to revert back to the single effort.
>
> I managed with the single long runs for the 50 miler, and my
> inclination is to stick with that. I may throw in 1 or 2 B2Bs
> if I have problems finding the requisite 6-7 hour timeslots for
> the really long ones...
Sounds reasonable but I'd lean to the 7 hour mark if you have the time.
-D
Doug Freese
"D Stumpus" <dstumpu...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:hf0nsm$hsa$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Anyway, if there is a moral to this story, it might be how gobs of
> talent doesn't get you very far in the marathon if you don't have the
> base.
Amen! :) I have a new work in progress for my winter runs. He has run 2
thons NY and Philly this year in the 4:30 range and I know he needs some
more base. He has the thon-itis. If he shows, ya can't trust Orthopedic
docs, I'm betting he will easily hit 4:15 if not 4 hours.
-D
Doug Freese
"Tony S." <noe...@forme.org> wrote in message
news:hf19s3$e44$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> "Michelle" <mich...@michelle.org> wrote in message
> news:michelle-15A343...@nothing.attdns.com...
>> In article <hev6i8$49e$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> "Tony S." <noe...@forme.org> wrote:
>>
>>> > The lowlight of today's run was miles 15 through 17; there was a
>>> > hellacious headwind that slowed me down to 16:03, 15:42, and 15:10
Headwinds are not always bad. If it's easy run you simply go slower as
your are still working as hard albeit slower numbers in the log. You can
also choose to work them to add some quality. The pace numbers can have
an asterisk and comment about the wind.
If I'm doing fartleks, I usually decide to run either the ups or downs
hard. If it's a particularly windy day I may opt to do an out and back
and run harder into the wind.
They are not high/low but qualified paces.
-D
rms
> I have only one and that was this summer. Training wise I treated it like
> a long 50 mile, which after the fact, was not enough. My last 12 miles
> albeit back end loaded with elevation, was too much of a slowdown by my
> standards.
I bonked pretty hard in the last 12miles of my one 100k last summer
also, gotta keep up the food intake.
rms
I2Run
| I2Run wrote:
| ...
| > Sun: 14.1 mi, incl HM in 1:34:27
| ...
|
| Nice. Was this planned?
| > Total: 84.2 mi ,in dusty, smoky part of the world
|
| Different continent?
In Asia, still jet lagged.
|
| Btw, are you building up towards a marathon?
|
| jobs
Right now in a maintenance mode till middle or late
January, then build up for Boston. (In case you missed the
first line, those 84.2 mi are over two weeks)
Charlie Pendejo
>|> Sun: 14.1 mi, incl HM in 1:34:27
That's a terrific pace for a fun run - sounds like a heck of a long
tempo at the least. :-)
>|> Total: 84.2 mi ,in dusty, smoky part of the world
>| Different continent?
> In Asia, still jet lagged.
Oh that's better - I feared maybe you were visiting some of my
slovenly smoking relatives.
Daniel
Mon 0
Tue 0
Wed 35 minute run
Thu 60 minute run, hills
Fri 0
Sat 45 minute run
Sun 70 minute walk, hills
[Daniel, addressing the scale Sunday morning:] "Now where did those extra
pounds come from? Hmmm..."
I believe I will not be trying to get into half-marathon condition by end of
March. Next "goal" race will be the "couples relay" (daughter and I each do a
5K) February 28, 2010.
Peace,
--
Daniel ( deltae...@usa.net )
Doug Freese
"rms" <rsqui...@MOOflashMOO.net> wrote in message
news:hf3a0b$svs$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Get your eat and drink under control before you try a 100 miles! And yes
you will do a 100. :)
-D
Tony S.
news:hf2pks$dmm$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
What's your max HR? It must be pretty high. Is your "fast" tempo pace?
-Tony
Edward Edmonds
Max HR is 210+, I'm quite certain however it's higher then that.
Honestly Tony I couldn't pin point a tempo heart rate for you, I don't
wear a heart rate monitor often enough nor keep incredibly extensive
records besides the basic stuff and half the time I don't wear a watch,
especially on faster paced stuff where extra baggage tends to irritate
me especially having strap around my chest.
The only time I really wear a HRM is to second check that I'm going slow
enough during my slow runs when the strap is tolerable.
E**2
Doug Freese
> On 12/4/2009 2:19 AM, Tony S. wrote:
>> "Edward Edmonds"<edward....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:hf2pks$dmm$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Max HR is 210+, I'm quite certain however it's higher then that.
> Honestly Tony I couldn't pin point a tempo heart rate for you, I don't
> wear a heart rate monitor often enough nor keep incredibly extensive
> records besides the basic stuff and half the time I don't wear a
> watch, especially on faster paced stuff where extra baggage tends to
> irritate me especially having strap around my chest.
>
> The only time I really wear a HRM is to second check that I'm going
> slow enough during my slow runs when the strap is tolerable.
E**2, you have wisdom beyond your years. :)
I'm sure you have a very good idea how fast is fast and a HRM during
speed is of minimal value. maybe an occasional spotcheck. For many it
becomes a crutch, like TRI geeks, where they can't take a step without
some instant feedback. The HRM slave never really gets to "feel the
pace" just read the dial.
Keeping your slow, slow, is what allows maximum recovery. To run too
fast on a recovery day, even when you feel good is counter-productive to
maximize your potential.
I see you have a good grip on this part of the puzzle. 2:10 marathon
just around the corner. :)
-D
Edward J. Edmonds
> E**2, you have wisdom beyond your years.:)
Why thank you, give me about 2 years and I'll have the baldness to go
with the wisdom. I'm thinking I'll shave my head and wear long white
robes and do Shaolin Kung Fu while I'm waiting for the gun to go off.
:-) I'm thinking if I "roll" up to the line like the first guy in the
video I'll psych the rest of the competition into quitting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4jT-AtpCSY
> I'm sure you have a very good idea how fast is fast and a HRM during
> speed is of minimal value. maybe an occasional spotcheck. For many it
> becomes a crutch, like TRI geeks, where they can't take a step without
> some instant feedback. The HRM slave never really gets to "feel the
> pace" just read the dial.
Spot-checks are about all I use them for, I think it's more straight
forward that way, easier to judge how fast you're going then how slow
you're going as least for me.
> Keeping your slow, slow, is what allows maximum recovery. To run too
> fast on a recovery day, even when you feel good is counter-productive to
> maximize your potential.
When I suspect I'm going faster then I should be I'll dust off my HRM to
make sure I'm going slow enough during my slow sessions. I like to keep
it less than 150. It gets tricky sometimes because you know as you get
fit higher HR's become easier so you can trap into a systematic
breakdown where your working the wrong energy systems thus loosing
fitness at the most basic levels. Quite honestly I think it's the slow
running that requires the most discipline. It's fairly easy to do a
high quality session and kill yourself, but slow running requires
control and patience, so I like to get creative and run in interesting
places. I think it's easy to get into the mindset that slow running is
specific to "recovery" and thus treat it as less important then higher
quality sessions. But I think slow running does something that faster
running doesn't do for you:
1) I think because of increased resistance it builds stamina and works
your muscles effectively,
2) I think it plays a big roll in injury prevention,
3) I think it helps you to perfect your form. I think when you're
running fast it's fairly intuitive to break into good form, but when
you're going slow it's easy to get sloppy: slouching, bad foot fall,
bouncing around, arms swinging all over the place, weird breathing
patterns, etc., I think if you can learn to run smoothly when you're
going extremely slow like your gliding around, then that goes a long way
to stabilizing you when you're going fast,
4) obviously high quality aerobic development, but here's the thing,
most people think that when you're going faster you're getting a better
workout, in reality though the higher your heart rate the less effective
your heart and oxygen assimilation becomes, this is the whole reason
there are other energy systems, more specifically the systems that are
involved with anaerobic running which its sole purpose is to allow you
to work in the absence of oxygen. It's very simple physiology but I
think it's the most overlooked.
So you know I've always looked to the ultra runners and how they do
their aerobic training, 100+ miles in a race is a long way to go, with
the distance being that far it helped me to fish out all the hair
brained theories in normal distance running. Ultra runners I find to be
a breath of fresh air because they get back down to the basics for the
most part they spend their time arguing about B2B's. Simply put there
is no shortcut to running a 50-100+ mile race, you've got to get out and
run easy and build up that aerobic system.
With the marathon and below and everybody trying to make a buck off one
another it's not so cut and dry with how to train properly, this creates
a lot of confusion for new runners as well as a lot of injuries, you
could literally spend your whole life trying out new theories to train by.
All-and-all for myself I like the philosophies of Lydiard and Van Aaken,
I've read bio's and life stories of both and those are the types of guys
I could sit down and have a beer with, both were down to earth hard
working men and cut through the BS that was prevalent at the time. The
sad part is despite the wisdom they had the BS pile today is stacked
about 10 feet higher now, it seems people are still looking for a short cut.
A good example is Ryan Hall, what can I say, I like the guy because he's
dedicated to something, don't have to agree with him, but at a basic
level he's dedicated to something and that's something that's rare for
my generation. I was watching an interview he was doing after the NYCM
and he was saying that maybe he just needs to go faster in his training
to get better and have consistent results, but I think that's the wrong
approach, I think he needs to slow down during training and cut like
3/4ths of his weight training out. Honestly after listening to him
speak several times about his training, I don't think he knows what he's
doing, by that I mean, I think he's just repeating what his coach is
telling him. Personally his coach I think is a dick, I've heard him
talk and the types of training he has his athletes do and it's almost as
if he's experimenting on them. But hey it's possible I'm missing
something, after all I'm still a fairly new runner, so it's just an
opinion. One day if I'm ever able to run that fast maybe my opinion
will hold some water, till then don't take that like I think I know
everything.
> I see you have a good grip on this part of the puzzle. 2:10 marathon
> just around the corner.:)
Ha! 2:10, that's more like 10 blocks down and then around the corner.
That's a ways off if it's going to happen.
--
Edward J. Edmonds "E**2"
Doug Freese
"Edward J. Edmonds" <edward....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hfbrd7$5i9$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 12/4/2009 12:42 PM, Doug Freese wrote:
>> E**2, you have wisdom beyond your years.:)
>
> Why thank you, give me about 2 years and I'll have the baldness to go
> with the wisdom. I'm thinking I'll shave my head and wear long white
> robes and do Shaolin Kung Fu while I'm waiting for the gun to go off.
Snatch the pepple grasshopper!
The rest I'll get back to later.
-D
Tony S.
news:hfbrd7$5i9$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 12/4/2009 12:42 PM, Doug Freese wrote:
>> E**2, you have wisdom beyond your years.:)
>
> Why thank you, give me about 2 years and I'll have the baldness to go
> with the wisdom. I'm thinking I'll shave my head and wear long white
> robes and do Shaolin Kung Fu while I'm waiting for the gun to go off.
> :-) I'm thinking if I "roll" up to the line like the first guy in the
> video I'll psych the rest of the competition into quitting:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4jT-AtpCSY
>
>> I'm sure you have a very good idea how fast is fast and a HRM during
>> speed is of minimal value. maybe an occasional spotcheck. For many it
>> becomes a crutch, like TRI geeks, where they can't take a step
>> without
>> some instant feedback. The HRM slave never really gets to "feel the
>> pace" just read the dial.
>
> Spot-checks are about all I use them for, I think it's more straight
> forward that way, easier to judge how fast you're going then how slow
> you're going as least for me.
Same here.
>> Keeping your slow, slow, is what allows maximum recovery. To run too
>> fast on a recovery day, even when you feel good is counter-productive
>> to
>> maximize your potential.
>
> When I suspect I'm going faster then I should be I'll dust off my HRM
> to make sure I'm going slow enough during my slow sessions. I like to
> keep it less than 150. It gets tricky sometimes because you know as
> you get fit higher HR's become easier so you can trap into a
> systematic breakdown where your working the wrong energy systems thus
> loosing fitness at the most basic levels. Quite honestly I think it's
> the slow running that requires the most discipline. It's fairly easy
> to do a high quality session and kill yourself, but slow running
> requires control and patience, so I like to get creative and run in
> interesting places. I think it's easy to get into the mindset that
> slow running is specific to "recovery" and thus treat it as less
> important then higher quality sessions. But I think slow running does
> something that faster running doesn't do for you:
I will often wear the HRM on long runs to keep the effort under control,
or during quality sessions where I monitor HR to see if it comports to
how I feel. If it takes a harder effort than normal to get the HR up, I
need more rest. I like to use it for quality runs because for me a true
tempo effort (88-90% max HR) is not easy to maintain. If I don't wear
the HRM, I will drift back into the more comfortable 82-85% range, which
is more like MP for me in training; (in races when well rested the HR is
always higher for the same effort). But for most of the year I don't
monitor quality sessions closely, and rarely wear the HRM.
-Tony
John Hurley
snip
> I will often wear the HRM on long runs to keep the effort under control,
> or during quality sessions where I monitor HR to see if it comports to
> how I feel. If it takes a harder effort than normal to get the HR up, I
> need more rest. I like to use it for quality runs because for me a true
> tempo effort (88-90% max HR) is not easy to maintain. If I don't wear
> the HRM, I will drift back into the more comfortable 82-85% range, which
> is more like MP for me in training; (in races when well rested the HR is
> always higher for the same effort). But for most of the year I don't
> monitor quality sessions closely, and rarely wear the HRM.
No HR monitor for me ... probably ever.
As much as I like technology ( and my linux database servers at work
and the new win 7 64 bit laptop ) for running I strongly prefer the
running by feel approach.
The 7 year old Timex Ironman watch is all I need. For quality runs
the 3 hour time line works for me. Whatever was meant to happen in
that 3 hours happens.
I really think most people do not need more than the "ran a half hour"
or "ran 45 minutes" or "ran a couple hours" approach. Using a sundial
might work wonders for many.
How about the horse riders yacking on the cell phones ... yuck!
Edward J. Edmonds
> and my linux database servers at work
> and the new win 7 64 bit laptop
I figured you were a geek from your sbc e-mail address, I've had a
Windows 7 64-bit laptop since the early beta versions, smooth baby
smooth, also used to do quite a bit of Python on Linux as well as some
embedded Java programming on the BlackBerry platform for a company that
did a lot of contracts for the military and did quite a bit of that on
the side when I was in the military building inventory tracking programs
for the lab I worked at etc. Haven't programmed besides light web
programming in a couple years, I'm afraid I don't qualify as a geek
anymore. :-(
But all I can say is that I don't miss sifting through API documentation
nor making heterogeneous software talk to each other. Dear god, I once
took on a project to make a database sitting on System V interface with
a Gooey sitting on XP. Not again. That's for the birds.
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0
I'd rather cut a body up :-)
Doug Freese
> On 12/5/2009 1:32 AM, John Hurley wrote:
>> and my linux database servers at work
>> and the new win 7 64 bit laptop
>
> I figured you were a geek from your sbc e-mail address, I've had a
> Windows 7 64-bit laptop since the early beta versions, smooth baby
> smooth, also used to do quite a bit of Python on Linux as well as some
> embedded Java programming on the BlackBerry platform for a company
> that did a lot of contracts for the military and did quite a bit of
> that on the side when I was in the military building inventory
> tracking programs for the lab I worked at etc. Haven't programmed
> besides light web programming in a couple years, I'm afraid I don't
> qualify as a geek anymore. :-(
I suffered for years on Unix and Linux and can safely say I'm totally
weaned away. It's like one monster bowel movement after years of
constipation and cramps.
DeGeeked also,
-D