Mitch Hawker's 2009 Wood Coaster Poll
Theme Park Review
http://www.ushsho.com/bestrollercoasterpoll.htm
--Robb Alvey
www.themeparkreview.com
I hack as good as I give birth
wrote:
> Mitch Hawker's 2009 Wood Coaster Poll has been posted!http://www.ushsho.com/bestrollercoasterpoll.htm
>
> --Robb Alveywww.themeparkreview.com
cool!
CoasterFanatic
http://www.coasterfanatics.com/sec_poll/default.asp
- Ted
BaSSiStiSt
I hack, as good as I give birth!
> I've voted! Have you?
twice!
Keith Hopkins
news:8950585a-3bc0-43c1...@g27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> I've voted! Have you?
I haven't finished my calculations on how to skew the results in favor
of Grizzly.
--
Keith Hopkins
suss...@sssssssssgmail.ssssssssscom
[clear up the hissing to email]
"Excuse me, sir, but you appear to be sitting
on my gown. Would you be so kind as to move?"
Mark McKenzie
BaSSiStiSt
<sussk...@sssssssssgmail.ssssssssscom> wrote:
> I haven't finished my calculations on how to skew the results in favor
> of Grizzly.
KD or GA?
Keith Hopkins
Which one's worse?
BaSSiStiSt
<sussk...@sssssssssgmail.ssssssssscom> wrote:
> Which one's worse?
Well, GA's regularly finishes dead last in the poll.
David Sandborg
"Keith Hopkins" <suss...@sssssssssgmail.ssssssssscom> wrote:
> "BaSSiStiSt" <bassis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8950585a-3bc0-43c1...@g27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> > I've voted! Have you?
>
> I haven't finished my calculations on how to skew the results in favor
> of Grizzly.
No joke, I would do this if I could. There are several coasters out
there that I think are clearly worse than Grizzly (and I don't mean
kiddies). Magnus Colossus is the latest addition to my list.
However I doubt Grizzly will ever climb out of the basement. It's too
strong of a tradition for it to stay at the bottom of the poll.
--
Dave Sandborg
Remove Spam-away to respond via e-mail.
I hack, as good as I give birth!
wrote:
> In article <hdeo1g$i3...@aioe.org>,
> "Keith Hopkins" <sussk...@sssssssssgmail.ssssssssscom> wrote:
>
> > "BaSSiStiSt" <bassistist...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:8950585a-3bc0-43c1...@g27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> > > I've voted! Have you?
>
> > I haven't finished my calculations on how to skew the results in favor
> > of Grizzly.
>
> No joke, I would do this if I could. There are several coasters out
> there that I think are clearly worse than Grizzly (and I don't mean
> kiddies). Magnus Colossus is the latest addition to my list.
>
> However I doubt Grizzly will ever climb out of the basement. It's too
> strong of a tradition for it to stay at the bottom of the poll.
>
> --
> Dave Sandborg
> Remove Spam-away to respond via e-mail.
it's really not THAT BAD, it just isn't good.
BaSSiStiSt
wrote:
> However I doubt Grizzly will ever climb out of the basement. It's too
> strong of a tradition for it to stay at the bottom of the poll.
I feel I did my part to change this...I had it at 118, with 5 coasters
under it! :-)
Cheetah was dead last on my ballot.
David Sandborg
<084033f4-ffe6-4184...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
BaSSiStiSt <bassis...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Maybe with dreamers like us to help, Grizzly will finally crawl off the
bottom of the list!
I hack, as good as I give birth!
wrote:
> In article
> <084033f4-ffe6-4184-a1ed-da159ffbf...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>
> BaSSiStiSt <bassistist...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 11, 12:13 pm, David Sandborg <sandd...@Spam-away.ix.netcom.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > However I doubt Grizzly will ever climb out of the basement. It's too
> > > strong of a tradition for it to stay at the bottom of the poll.
>
> > I feel I did my part to change this...I had it at 118, with 5 coasters
> > under it! :-)
>
> > Cheetah was dead last on my ballot.
>
> Maybe with dreamers like us to help, Grizzly will finally crawl off the
> bottom of the list!
>
> --
> Dave Sandborg
> Remove Spam-away to respond via e-mail.
well if others can skew the real numbers why can't we ;^)
CoasterFanatic
> Cheetah was dead last on my ballot.
I will continue to skew the rating for Cheeta out of sheer ignorance.
The only day, I ever rode it was 6/6/2001 and it was fine.
- Ted
BaSSiStiSt
> I will continue to skew the rating for Cheeta out of sheer ignorance.
> The only day, I ever rode it was 6/6/2001 and it was fine.
>
> - Ted
Yep, I hear it was a decent ride the first few years. When I rode it
in 2005, however, it was HORRIBLE.
InForcer
from the GCI retrack.)
Not top 10 stuffs.. But I'd put it in the 50s.. Out of 120 wood.
Theme Park Review
I hear it's gotten much better now that GCI has done track work on
it. For me it falls somewhere in my "meh" middle list.
Tim Melago
wrote:
> No joke, I would do this if I could. There are several coasters out
> there that I think are clearly worse than Grizzly (and I don't mean
> kiddies). Magnus Colossus is the latest addition to my list.
>
> However I doubt Grizzly will ever climb out of the basement. It's too
> strong of a tradition for it to stay at the bottom of the poll.
I vote the Grizzly dead last because it has no redeeming qualities at
all for me. I can come up with a few positive things to say about Mean
Streak even if they're a real stretch. At least Mean Streak has PTC
trains. At least Mean Streak is tall. At least Mean Streak goes fast.
I can't find any positive points about Grizzly that don't involve some
negativity (Grizzly isn't quite as rough as Mean Streak). That's why
it is last on my list.
--Tim Melago
David Sandborg
<da2e1a8a-bd56-48cc...@d21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Tim Melago <roll...@comcast.net> wrote:
I know we've talked this through before, Tim but I might as well give
some more of my reasoning for everybody else. Grizzly is definitely a
sub-mediocre ride, but to me it's not outright offensive, so there are
rides I dislike more. When I've ridden Grizzly I laughed at how little
it did; when I rode Son of Beast (for instance), I cursed at how much it
hurt to ride. Mean Streak I also rank lower, because by rights of
height and layout it should be better, but it isn't.
I wish you'd had a chance to try Magnus Colossus. I'd like to have
known what you'd have thought. In every category I can think of except
appearance, it is worse than Grizzly. Slow, rough, terrible trains,
rides the rails poorly, nearly forceless. In fact the only forces it
had were the wrong way in the final helix because it was going so slowly
that you were pushed inward by the banking.
Funtype
> I know we've talked this through before, Tim but I might as well give
> some more of my reasoning for everybody else. Grizzly is definitely a
> sub-mediocre ride, but to me it's not outright offensive, so there are
> rides I dislike more. When I've ridden Grizzly I laughed at how little
> it did; when I rode Son of Beast (for instance), I cursed at how much it
> hurt to ride. Mean Streak I also rank lower, because by rights of
> height and layout it should be better, but it isn't.
>
> I wish you'd had a chance to try Magnus Colossus. I'd like to have
> known what you'd have thought. In every category I can think of except
> appearance, it is worse than Grizzly. Slow, rough, terrible trains,
> rides the rails poorly, nearly forceless. In fact the only forces it
> had were the wrong way in the final helix because it was going so slowly
> that you were pushed inward by the banking.
>
Ditto Dave and we had talked about how we might have an all-time new
bottom of the barrel this year.
Never before (to me) has a coaster looked like it should have some kind
of good value. There was nothing to give a PRO to on MagCol, other than
the setting. Even the walk up to the station was boring.
As far as setting the bottom, I say we cam(pain) for SOB to leave this
earth at the bottom of the list!
Once the loop was gone, it's only redeeming quality was removed, now it
has gone all Milli Vanilli on us and was "unfit for patrons" before it
opened, thank you powers that be, (aka ohio state inspectors) for
deeming it okay to ride over and over again.
See you at the bottom of the list!
--CM
Dave Althoff, Jr.
: "BaSSiStiSt" <bassis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: > I've voted! Have you?
:
: I haven't finished my calculations on how to skew the results in favor
: of Grizzly.
Meanwhile, now that I have actually ridden the damned thing, I can assure
you that it will get about 96 more head-to-head losses this year. 8-)
(Grizzly DESERVES its perennial last-place status!)
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
/X\ _ *** Respect rides. They do not respect you. ***
/XXX\ /X\ /X\_ _ /X\__ _ _ _____
/XXXXX\ /XXX\ /XXXX\_ /X\ /XXXXX\ /X\ /X\ /XXXXX
_/XXXXXXX\__/XXXXX\/XXXXXXXX\_/XXX\_/XXXXXXX\__/XXX\_/XXX\_/\_/XXXXXX
NEW! When emailing this account, include the 'canonical magic word' in
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Wolf
"Keith Hopkins" <suss...@sssssssssgmail.ssssssssscom> wrote in message
news:hdeo1g$i30$1...@aioe.org...
> "BaSSiStiSt" <bassis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8950585a-3bc0-43c1...@g27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>> I've voted! Have you?
>
> I haven't finished my calculations on how to skew the results in favor of
> Grizzly.
>
> --
> Keith Hopkins
Have you tried assassination?
--
|\-/|
<0 0>
=(o)=
-Wolf
Wolf
"David Sandborg" <sand...@Spam-away.ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:sanddave-EC56CA...@earthlink.us.supernews.com...
I think 1996 was it's last non-basement year.
Keith Hopkins
news:PdGdndpdmeAkKWHX...@giganews.com...
>
> "Keith Hopkins" <suss...@sssssssssgmail.ssssssssscom> wrote in
> message news:hdeo1g$i30$1...@aioe.org...
>> "BaSSiStiSt" <bassis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:8950585a-3bc0-43c1...@g27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>>> I've voted! Have you?
>>
>> I haven't finished my calculations on how to skew the results in
>> favor of Grizzly.
>
Logistically difficult.
Shawn Mamros
>"Wolf" <bill.b...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:PdGdndpdmeAkKWHX...@giganews.com...
>> "Keith Hopkins" <suss...@sssssssssgmail.ssssssssscom> wrote in
>> message news:hdeo1g$i30$1...@aioe.org...
>>>
>>> favor of Grizzly.
>>
>> Have you tried assassination?
>
>Logistically difficult.
Not to mention that it's ineffective if the targeted individual(s)
has/have already voted...
-s
BaSSiStiSt
> Not to mention that it's ineffective if the targeted individual(s)
> has/have already voted...
See, I read it as he was going to go burn down every woodie that
wasn't Grizzly.
Keith Hopkins
DUDE, SHUT UP.
BaSSiStiSt
<sussk...@sssssssssgmail.ssssssssscom> wrote:
> DUDE, SHUT UP.
What's your favorite coaster again?
I just lowered it on my ballot.
Keith Hopkins
I hereby rescind all previous offers of funnelcake.
BaSSiStiSt
<sussk...@sssssssssgmail.ssssssssscom> wrote:
> I hereby rescind all previous offers of funnelcake.
I hereby double the amount of promised cockpunchings.
Keith Hopkins
My anus is sore from the thought.
David H.--REMOVE "STOPSPAM" to reply
Other than the part at the end, that's almost exactly how I felt about
Twister II at Elitch's.
Although it wasn't really rough or offensive. It just was a big woodie
that didn't do anything. It just seemed wrong for a coaster that's
supposedly modeled after one of the classic coasters to be so boring.
I remember the ERT session at the Preservation Con that year, where after a
ride or two, most ACErs were just standing around talking because so few
people even wanted more rides.
Kind of like at Terra Mitica when someone was there from the media and
wanted to film all of these Americans riding after our ERT session was over
-- and hardly anyone was willing to ride, even to help the park out with
some publicity.
David H, davi...@STOPSPAMbellatlantic.net, Boston, MA
PLEASE remove "STOPSPAM" from my address when replying via e-mail.
"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by
the president or any other public official, save exactly to the degree
in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support
him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not
to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he
fails in his duty to stand by the country. In either event, it is
unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or
anyone else."
-- Theodore Roosevelt
David Sandborg
"David H.--REMOVE \"STOPSPAM\" to reply"
<davidhhh...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
> Kind of like at Terra Mitica when someone was there from the media and
> wanted to film all of these Americans riding after our ERT session was over
> -- and hardly anyone was willing to ride, even to help the park out with
> some publicity.
Heh, we did our media stint on Inferno (and Chris T and I got
interviewed too; I wonder if they ever used that), so we got out of any
obligatory riding on Magnus.
Theme Park Review
http://www.ushsho.com/bestrollercoasterpoll.htm
--Robb Alvey
www.themeparkreview.com
BaSSiStiSt
http://www.ushsho.com/woodrollercoasterpollresults2009.htm
'Grats to Voyage. It was running amazingly well for SRM this year IMO
(even though Mother Nature was cheating a bit to help). Good to see
the international rides in the Top Ten as well. 'Tis a good era to be
a woodie fan...now if they could just make international air travel a
little cheaper? :-)
Final steel results to come.
Nashville Mike
> Final results issue for the 2009 Internet Wooden Coaster Poll:
>
I'll just comment and say that it was nice to see two of my "not my
number one but still one seriously good ride" choices get into the top
ten - and that would be Ravine Flyer II, a ride whose opening series
(or two) is amongst the best out there and congrats to Prowler - that
ride, more than anything else in a while, surprised me in how good it
was - easily GCI's best and worthy of it's placement.
-m
David Sandborg
<278336d4-b43a-4a2c...@h9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
BaSSiStiSt <bassis...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm kind of glad to see Voyage on top after its fall last year. Perhaps
it was helped by improved policies at Holiwood Nights this past summer?
El Toro is a very respectable ride, but it doesn't quite beat Voyage in
my book. I had to knock it down a bit simply because it beat me in the
end at Riding of the Bull. I could not make it into a "session
coaster". That's why I'm also pleased to see Ravine Flyer II getting
such high ratings, because that's exactly what it is--and it has a
beginning to rival Tremors to boot. If it finished as strongly as it
begins it might be the ultimate coaster for me, even above Voyage
because of the session aspect.
I guess there's no beating Grizzly for the worst. I was hoping for
Magnus Colossus to steal that spot because for my money it's *really*
bad whereas Grizzly is just mediocre. I still assert that Grizzly holds
its position based on tradition rather than "merits". I await Althoff's
analysis to prove me wrong. :-)
Nashville Mike
wrote:
>
> I'm kind of glad to see Voyage on top after its fall last year. Perhaps
> it was helped by improved policies at Holiwood Nights this past summer?
> El Toro is a very respectable ride, but it doesn't quite beat Voyage in
> my book. I had to knock it down a bit simply because it beat me in the
> end at Riding of the Bull. I could not make it into a "session
> coaster". That's why I'm also pleased to see Ravine Flyer II getting
> such high ratings, because that's exactly what it is--and it has a
> beginning to rival Tremors to boot. If it finished as strongly as it
> begins it might be the ultimate coaster for me, even above Voyage
> because of the session aspect.
>
Regarding Voyages placement, I'm not sure it really moved - let's be
honest, in Mitches poll any of the top few rides are thought to be #1
caliber and it just depends on which rider group gets over to the
Intamins overseas and ranks them - last year it was a TPR based
contingent who worships Intamin rides and this year it was a more
traditionally based contingent who might have felt a certain ride was
perhaps over-rated last year - I'm not saying either "group" is wrong
- it's just that some rides with few riders can be skewed heavily in
this particular poll.
That being said, two things may have contributed to Voyage this year:
a) policies and friendliness at HW was vastly improved over prior
years. Easily the best HWN yet.
b) The rain that delayed the Saturday night ERT seriously pushed an
already-near-the-edge ride into total overdrive - I still remember Tim
Melago's eyes when he was coming down the walkway to ride the Voyage
that night and saw how damned fast the Voyage train was ripping over
that last high section near the final brake - thought his eyeballs
were gonna pop out of his head and roll down the walkway beside him.
Those first couple of wet rides were off the scale in terms of speed
and intensity, and finally he (and others) got to ride it in
"legendary rain mode", something that is quite incomprehensible until
you've done it yourself.
(even crazier were the rainstorm rides at the coaster buzz event - the
ride wasn't quite as fast then, but the intensity and violence was in
a different territory with a full on hard rainstorm - I've never been
on something that kicked my ass as hard as those two back seat full
rainstorm coaster buzz event rides and will certainly say I enjoyed
the HWN rain rides a lot more - the buzz rain storm rides were one of
the few times I definitely woulda tapped out on the block brake if I
coulda....)
----
Glad you like the beginning of Ravine Flyer II and I too think of that
opening series in the Tremors category - the view over the lake and
then the accelerative rush into the layout is something else.
I wish, btw, you had gotten out to KC (Prowler) too - not in the
Ravine Flyer II category by any means, but one HELL of a fun night
ride that is so vastly different (and better) than everything else GCI
has done - a true work of art in subtle pacing changes and proof that
Jeff Pike is growing leaps and bounds as a designer. It (and also Evel
in St. Louis at night) changed my opinion on their rides in a big way.
-m
VFTB Matt
> On Dec 29, 6:46 pm, David Sandborg <sandd...@Spam-away.ix.netcom.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> last year it was a TPR based
> contingent who worships Intamin rides and this year it was a more
> traditionally based contingent who might have felt a certain ride was
> perhaps over-rated last year - I'm not saying either "group" is wrong
> - it's just that some rides with few riders can be skewed heavily in
> this particular poll.
>
>
I think what people fail to see, is that everyone on the TPR trip has
ridden hundreds of coasters, so they do have quite a frame of
reference. However, I don't think it's fair that such a small group
can sway voting that much. So the poll is still not perfect, and I
hate the drama (rather than discussion) it stirs up every year.
BaSSiStiSt
> So the poll is still not perfect, and I hate the drama (rather than discussion) it stirs up every year.
It's been pretty quiet over here...glad the ECC's getting the wrath
this year. :-)
The small sample size and it's relationship is both the plus and the
minus of Mitch's poll. A really worthy ride can do well overall with
just a few voters...and thus sway it from a popularity contest
(coughcoughGOLDENTICKETScough) into something else entirely....for
better or worse.
But...PERSPECTIVE TIME...it's still just geeks yappin'. :-)
J McDonnell
http://tinyurl.com/yzfbplf
Headline:
California lays claim to world’s worst wooden roller coaster — again
BaSSiStiSt
LOL! Cali's got a hammerlock on worst state for wood.
Hopefully Terminator has improved things a bit...riding it today!
Steelforce
not to mention the way R&E bash GCI coasters!
"New GCI's always do well at first, but then fall as people realize
that they're all very similar. "
"Look at Troy, Thunderhead, all the GCI's...they start stong, then
quickly fall. "
I wonder what the boys at GCI think of this?
VFTB Matt
Oh, I get the weighting system, it makes perfect sense. But like last
year, to have such a small contigent sway the way it was seemed a
strange. Not saying that it wasn't the right ranking (I'll never make
it over there to ride it), but well....there it is. I take the poll
for what it is, some interesting discussion, and to see how different
people rate coasters. There's just too many variables that each of us
use to really get a "best of" ranking. But it is a good, well
attempted, guesstimate.
I just think when you have a group of people where the majority have
ridden 500 or more coasters, you weigh their opinions more heavily.
The accusations of them swaying is just kind of silly, especially when
you see some people with equal amounts of credits ranking coasters
like Hurler #1. Whose trying to sway the poll then???? Hmmmm........
Steelforce
yea and who voted voyage as #30?
Theme Park Review
> I wonder what the boys at GCI think of this?
Not sure but I had a conversation with one of them today and it never
came up. I believe they are mature adults that respect other people's
opinions and if they were to read your post they would actually know
that you were just taking something Elissa said and posting it here
out of context in an effort to make TPR look bad.
On Dec 31, 4:00 am, Steelforce <steelfo...@aol.com> wrote:
> yea and who voted voyage as #30?
I assume you're trying to slam me again, and yeah, I ranked it #30 out
of my 162 woodies. It's not my favorite, but it's by far not my least
favorite, either. I just happen to prefer The Gravity Group's other
woodies like Ravine Flyer II, Fireball, and Hades better, which I
ranked #8, #11, and #19 respectively. So it's not like I have any
weird issue with TGG's work. And I just happen to like other Holiday
World woodies better, like The Raven, which I ranked #9.
You'll also note that The Voyage is on the front page of Theme Park
Review right now celebrating it's success. So where's the issue here,
Sam?
You can keep on with your crusade Sam, but no one buys it. No one.
--Robb Alvey
www.themeparkreview.com
Janna
<snip>
> I wonder what the boys at GCI think of this?
Who cares? One would hope that a person's poll rankings and
assessments of coasters were based on what they really thought of the
ride, rather than out of worry about what the coaster designers think.
An asskisser's assessment of a ride is worthless (to me, at least).
Mark Rosenzweig
Happy New Year, Janna!
Janna, if you were a wooden coaster designah, would you prefer to:
a) Sell a large amount of rides that don't neccessarily hold their
popularity in a poll geared towards a specialized interest group
b) Sell fewer rides that a specialized interest group prefer
I am basing all future business decisions on your's so think long and
hard please!
Joe Schwartz
> Janna, if you were a wooden coaster designah, would you prefer to:
>
> a) Sell a large amount of rides that don't neccessarily hold their
> popularity in a poll geared towards a specialized interest group
> b) Sell fewer rides that a specialized interest group prefer
>
> I am basing all future business decisions on your's so think long and
> hard please!
Mark, you're implying that the results of Mitch's poll reflect only the
tastes of coaster enthusiasts, and not those of the general public. I
think that's generally untrue -- I've yet to see a high-ranking coaster
that the GP dislikes, although there are some low-ranking coasters that
are liked by the GP (and many enthusiasts). The GP knows a great
coaster when they ride one, although they might not know exactly where
it stands in comparison to other coasters around the world.
Wolf
>
> Who cares? One would hope that a person's poll rankings and
> assessments of coasters were based on what they really thought of the
> ride, rather than out of worry about what the coaster designers think.
> An asskisser's assessment of a ride is worthless (to me, at least).
Happy New Year, Janna!
Janna, if you were a wooden coaster designah, would you prefer to:
a) Sell a large amount of rides that don't neccessarily hold their
popularity in a poll geared towards a specialized interest group
b) Sell fewer rides that a specialized interest group prefer
I am basing all future business decisions on your's so think long and
hard please!
----------
That's a bit of a false dilemma. Gravity Group, who builds group B rides, is
also a popular seller.
--
|\-/|
<0 0>
=(o)=
-Wolf
Janna
> I am basing all future business decisions on your's so think long and
> hard please!
I am thinking long and hard.
(That's what she said.)
-Janna
(Happy New Year to you, too!)
BaSSiStiSt
> not to mention the way R&E bash GCI coasters!
Honestly, Sam...stop.
P.S. Terminator was pretty damn good. Short, but makes the most of
what it's got. Damn, I'm almost starting to like Magic Mountain again!
Mad Dog BB
Thanks for coming to our defense here! I'm glad you enjoy our rides, and I
agree that we sometimes get our fair share of "bashing" from the enthusiast
community.
As for Robb & Elissa, yes, they drive me nuts with their "Intamin" this and
"plug-n-play" that...and I always make sure to get a few digs in at them
when we hang out. I had dinner with them a few weeks ago and managed to
sneak in a few.
But I know we can't please everyone all the time. It's especially hard to
please Robb & Elissa, but they've been good to GCII in many other ways so I
don't get *too* worked up!
I know there's no love lost between you guys, but as long as there's a
little love coming GCII's way every now and then, I can live with the
contrarians.
Jeff
"Steelforce" <steel...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ea41ffbd-ad5e-4db9...@e27g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
David H.--REMOVE "STOPSPAM" to reply
wrote:
But let's face it, the TPR crowd does tend to have a certain mentality. And
I don't say this in any way to criticize them. We tend to pre-judge rides
based on what those we respect think about them. And TPR is about Robb and
Elissa. And everyone knows that they love Intamin coasters. Hell, it's
even an Easter egg in Roller Coaster Tycoon.
And when many of the people you spend time talking coasters with share
certain opinions, you tend to go into those rides with those opinions
already formed. Even if the ride doesn't quite live up to your
expectations, you'll tend to feel like somehow it was better then it was
just because it's supposed to be better than you thought it was. So, I
think that may of the people on their trips tend to go into rides expecting
them to be a certain way. And that's natural.
This isn't anything unique to TPR. Look back to this newsgroup and the
polls when Twister at Knoebels or Legend or Shivering Timbers or Steel
Force opened. There was already a huge buzz about all of those rides
before they even opened, partially due to the parks that some of them were
in, beloved by enthusiasts. And when they did open, the early riders raved
about them. And when more people started riding them, they did so
expecting them to be great top-tier rides. And when you expect something,
you tend to find it, even if it's not really all there. So all of them
started off hugely popular, regardless of whether they deserved their
rankings. Since then, most of them have dramatically fallen in popularity,
though admittedly, some of them have fallen because the rides themselves
have gotten worse over the years.
Loopy
> polls when Twister at Knoebels or Legend or Shivering Timbers or Steel
> Force opened. There was already a huge buzz about all of those rides
> before they even opened, partially due to the parks that some of them were
> in, beloved by enthusiasts. And when they did open, the early riders raved
> about them. And when more people started riding them, they did so
> expecting them to be great top-tier rides. And when you expect something,
> you tend to find it, even if it's not really all there. So all of them
> started off hugely popular, regardless of whether they deserved their
> rankings. Since then, most of them have dramatically fallen in popularity,
> though admittedly, some of them have fallen because the rides themselves
> have gotten worse over the years.
I knew this dude whose mom worked at a factory where they made gummi
bears. Him, and his family used to rave about how awesome fresh gummi
bears tasted. Hell, everyone I knew raved about how awesome they
were. One day, he brought me a bag full and I tasted them. They were
just fucking gummi bears.
Tell people how awesome they are though, and they tend to believe it,
even after they taste them.
Wolf
>>ridden hundreds of coasters, so they do have quite a frame of
>>reference. However, I don't think it's fair that such a small group
>>can sway voting that much. So the poll is still not perfect, and I
>>hate the drama (rather than discussion) it stirs up every year.
>
> But let's face it, the TPR crowd does tend to have a certain mentality.
> And
> I don't say this in any way to criticize them. We tend to pre-judge rides
> based on what those we respect think about them. And TPR is about Robb
> and
> Elissa. And everyone knows that they love Intamin coasters. Hell, it's
> even an Easter egg in Roller Coaster Tycoon.
RCT2 doesn't count. =)
Janna
stirs up every year.
> Even if the ride doesn't quite live up to your
> expectations, you'll tend to feel like somehow it was better then it was
> just because it's supposed to be better than you thought it was.
Huh?
I don't think so.
-Janna
BaSSiStiSt
<davidhhhSTOPS...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
> And when many of the people you spend time talking coasters with share
> certain opinions, you tend to go into those rides with those opinions
> already formed. Even if the ride doesn't quite live up to your
> expectations, you'll tend to feel like somehow it was better then it was
> just because it's supposed to be better than you thought it was.
Gah. NO.
I still continue to love The Beast, despite many people (who's
opinions mean MUCH to me) thinking I'm an idiot for doing so. If
something's shit (to me), I'll say so. It's no skin off the other
guy's opinion...I can respect it and all, but I'll form my own,
thanks.
If you find yourself in a stream full of group-thinkers, time for a
new stream. :-)
VFTB Matt
> >
> If you find yourself in a stream full of group-thinkers, time for a
> new stream. :-)
I think you'll find this mentality no matter where you go, and people
tend to flock to what the "leaders" of any group say. It basic human
stupidity and fear of thinking for themselves. :-)
TPR is no different. The kiddies try to follow what R&E say, in order
to fit in, but there's enough members there that think for
themselves. Heck, we've got a group of guys that think Boardwalk
Bullet is the greatest ride since sliced bread. And Voyage always has
a large group gushing over it, and look where Robb ranks it. But it's
all about whatever floats everyone's boats.
I could ride Renegade all day, but I know it's not everyone elses
favorite. So what? Me likey. :-P
David H.--REMOVE "STOPSPAM" to reply
Certainly not everyone, but for many people, this happens. And on a poll,
if many people rank something higher than perhaps it deserves, then it will
rank higher than perhaps it deserves.
Especially on something as subjective as someone's "favorite" thing.
GodsOnSafari
> polls when Twister at Knoebels or Legend or Shivering Timbers or Steel
> Force opened. There was already a huge buzz about all of those rides
> before they even opened, partially due to the parks that some of them were
> in, beloved by enthusiasts. And when they did open, the early riders raved
> about them. And when more people started riding them, they did so
> expecting them to be great top-tier rides. And when you expect something,
> you tend to find it, even if it's not really all there. So all of them
> started off hugely popular, regardless of whether they deserved their
> rankings. Since then, most of them have dramatically fallen in popularity,
> though admittedly, some of them have fallen because the rides themselves
> have gotten worse over the years.
>
Wait, what? Dave, this is a non sequitur. It doesn't take into account
two rather important things:
-Rides change
-New rides are opened
Legend, Shivering Timbers, Tonnerre De Zeus, and Ghostrider have all
changed a lot since their primes. Twister was never highly regarded.
Steel Force went down in the rankings in large part due to Intamin and
B&M developing hyper coaster lines to compete with Morgan and building
22 big ass non-looping coasters over the last decade along with all
the looping attractions of a wide variety that opened over the last
THIRTEEN YEARS. Yeah, its been that long.
David H.--REMOVE "STOPSPAM" to reply
There's truth to all of that. But a great ride is still a great ride.
While they can be edged down by other coasters taking their spots, I think
that the hype helped inflate some of those rides, perhaps above where they
probably deserved to be.
And honestly, Legend was running about as well at the ACE Con as I remember
it running when it opened. Maybe a touch rougher, but not much.
There was a ton of hype around Twister when it opened, and I know people
liked it a lot more then. I still like it more than Phoenix, personally.
And it hasn't really changed at all, other than regular variations in its
ride quality from season to season. (Or at least from PPP to PPP, since
that's the only time I've ever gone to Knoebels.)
Yes, Steel Force has been pushed down by the other hypers, but have we just
been spoiled? Or was it never really the great ride we all thought it was?
Admittedly, while I've always enjoyed it, it's never been a top tier ride
for me, since it's airtime is not strong enough for my personal tastes.
My point was simply that when you first experience a ride, it can be
influenced by all the hype it has gotten in the community. That's a
natural phenomenon that's not unique to RRC or TPR or any forum. Especially
when that hype comes from people who's opinions you respect.
GodsOnSafari
And that's fine and dandy. But the poll has been around for something
like 15 years now. Look back at some of the great rides: Megafobia is
a pretty darn good ride. It is now #29, down from #1. Comet at Great
Escape has changed a lot since it was #1. KW Thunderbolt; Once #7. Now
barely top 50. These are natural occurences when you have such turn
over.
> And honestly, Legend was running about as well at the ACE Con as I remember
> it running when it opened. Maybe a touch rougher, but not much.
Which is fine...but for people who like that style of ride, there's
now Voyage in the same park. There's Hades. There's Ravine Flyer II.
The Plug-N-Plays debuted the same year; People that may have had
Legend #1-5 may now have El Toro atop their list with a slew of other
rides. Things change with time. "A great ride is a great ride" denies
progression. Clearly there has been some.
> There was a ton of hype around Twister when it opened, and I know people
> liked it a lot more then. I still like it more than Phoenix, personally.
> And it hasn't really changed at all, other than regular variations in its
> ride quality from season to season. (Or at least from PPP to PPP, since
> that's the only time I've ever gone to Knoebels.)
Yeah, but it hasn't been inside the top 30 in years. Point being;
there was no great sudden drop in popularity there.
> Yes, Steel Force has been pushed down by the other hypers, but have we just
> been spoiled? Or was it never really the great ride we all thought it was?
> Admittedly, while I've always enjoyed it, it's never been a top tier ride
> for me, since it's airtime is not strong enough for my personal tastes.
It was a top ten ride for me...in 1999 or 2000. Of course, yeah, I
didn't have 300/400/whatever coasters then and so forth, but I'd been
on what is still a pretty stunning number of contending steel. It was
way up there. Its down now because there's a bunch of B&M and Intamin
Hypers that do the same thing but better on my list (along with all
the looping coasters like Black Mamba and stuff). If I had been on
even more of them, it would likely be further down.
> My point was simply that when you first experience a ride, it can be
> influenced by all the hype it has gotten in the community. That's a
> natural phenomenon that's not unique to RRC or TPR or any forum. Especially
> when that hype comes from people who's opinions you respect.
That's certainly possible and in fact probable, but I don't think you
can associate the drops that these coasters have gone through with
people waking up to their originally unapparent flaws. Far from it.
Its generally a tertiary reason for some of these drops. Shivering
Timbers would still be top 5-7 (I think) if it ran like it did in 2001.
David Sandborg
<ae6311de-4a88-4029...@s3g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>,
GodsOnSafari <godson...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Things change with time. "A great ride is a great ride" denies
> progression. Clearly there has been some.
Which brings up the interesting question: Are there some "timeless"
rides that still do stand up in the face of more recent innovations?
Some would argue for the Coney Cyclone. An unmodified Comet might fit
the bill too. For me personally, I'd go with Vancouver's Coaster. And
a secondary question: What rides today do we think will still be near
the top of the list in 15 years?
--
Dave Sandborg
Remove Spam-away to respond via e-mail.
Wolf
>> progression. Clearly there has been some.
>
> Which brings up the interesting question: Are there some "timeless"
> rides that still do stand up in the face of more recent innovations?
> Some would argue for the Coney Cyclone. An unmodified Comet might fit
> the bill too. For me personally, I'd go with Vancouver's Coaster. And
> a secondary question: What rides today do we think will still be near
> the top of the list in 15 years?
>
> --
> Dave Sandborg
With what assumptions?
There are a lot of old rides that would be contenders now had they gotten
proper maintenance or had their parks not died around them. Rides like the
Georgia/Texas Cyclone, the Riverside (MA) Cyclone, the Rye Aeroplane, the
Riverside (IL) rides, the Cyclone Racer, Mister Twister, etc.
What if Shivering Timbers and Tonnerre de Zeus were kept in original
condition? What if HellCat didn't tear itself apart?
There are a lot of rides that could be top-10 rides in 15 years. Many of
them won't be because things will go wrong.
Mark Rosenzweig
Phoenix will be up there longer than any of us will be above ground.
It is taken care of, and it makes the most of its design without any
"over restraining" of riders or trimming off speed on turns (like
Hershey Comet). The park it is in takes pride in it, and I can't see
the ride experience ever changing at all.
Dave Althoff, Jr.
: In article
I don't think it's even necessarily true that today's good rides will be
"near the top" in 15 years. I'm enough of an optimist to think that one of
the phenomena we might be seeing isn't merely that yesterday's good rides
are not as good as today's rides, but rather today's rides are as good or
better than yesterday's rides. Good rides are still good rides...but the
fact is, there are a lot more really good rides out there than there used
to be. The fact is, there are only 25 slots for the "top 25" coasters, but
who is to say that there aren't 50 really good rides?
(I'll avoid commenting on the Coney Island Cyclone. I'll avoid riding it,
too, until it gets some much needed repair...)
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
/X\ _ *** Respect rides. They do not respect you. ***
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NEW! When emailing this account, include the 'canonical magic word' in
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GOS
<dalloff.gcfn....@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> David Sandborg <sandd...@spam-away.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> : In article
> : <ae6311de-4a88-4029-9dc4-d0db7a5ff...@s3g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>,
> : GodsOnSafari <godsonsaf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> :
> : > Things change with time. "A great ride is a great ride" denies
> : > progression. Clearly there has been some.
> :
> : Which brings up the interesting question: Are there some "timeless"
> : rides that still do stand up in the face of more recent innovations?
> : Some would argue for the Coney Cyclone. An unmodified Comet might fit
> : the bill too. For me personally, I'd go with Vancouver's Coaster. And
> : a secondary question: What rides today do we think will still be near
> : the top of the list in 15 years?
>
> I don't think it's even necessarily true that today's good rides will be
> "near the top" in 15 years. I'm enough of an optimist to think that one of
> the phenomena we might be seeing isn't merely that yesterday's good rides
> are not as good as today's rides, but rather today's rides are as good or
> better than yesterday's rides. Good rides are still good rides...but the
> fact is, there are a lot more really good rides out there than there used
> to be. The fact is, there are only 25 slots for the "top 25" coasters, but
> who is to say that there aren't 50 really good rides?
Exactly. We probably live in one of the best eras for coaster riding.
Nothing wrong with that. Would we rather all have Timber Wolf and
Texas Giant in our top tens as it was for a lot of folk circa
1992/1993?
David Sandborg
"Wolf" <bill.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
Really, for this exercise whatever assumptions you can justify. If you
think that the Intamins will decline for some reason, or a very solid
but short ride like Ravine Flyer II will simply be surpassed, you can
say so. Or if you think that because Voyage is at a park that wants to
maintain its coasters to top conditions and it's at the edge of what
wildness could be tolerated, and so will stay at the top, you can say
that too. Or if you think the industry will take a sudden turn toward
Traver-crazy rides that will outshine anything we have today, you can
assume that too, just say so.
Of course nobody knows what will happen, but we can certainly make
educated guesses. Over the past decade and a half I probably wouldn't
have guessed that Shivering Timbers would have declined so badly on the
one hand. On the other, I think I could have guessed that it would be
surpassed by other rides, none doing precisely the same thing, but
generally stepping up the intensity level at the expense of pure
straight-out airtime. Though you might not have gotten me to admit it
at the time, since I really liked the idea of a pure out-and-backer that
performed at that level. I'd have predicted Raven, Rampage, and Tremors
would have had a bit more staying power than they have, though they're
all still in respectable top 20 positions. Having ridden an Intamin
plug-and-play in 2002 I did see the potential there, which has certainly
been realized in El Toro (I find Balder less interesting but that's a
matter of taste). I'm sure there are other trends I could go back and
say, "Yeah, I saw that coming" or "Hmmm, I'd never have guessed that".
So can we project that outward and speculate what the future will bring?
David Sandborg
<d5d1a07f-7d4d-46a6...@26g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>,
GOS <alansco...@gmail.com> wrote:
I could justify Texas Giant as I last rode it (though that was 10 years
and more ago by this point...), can't speak for Timber Wolf as I still
haven't ridden it. In both cases I do wonder where the rides would be
if they were well maintained. (I guess we'll see what the TG refurb
brings.)
That's not to dispute the basic point. Some traditionalists might
argue, but I agree that we're really seeing some great rides being
built, that in my opinion stand up to the "classics" I've personally had
a chance to ride. To add to the mix I think there's a co-evolution of
ride style and enthusiast tastes, possibly helped by the fact that many
of the ride designers nowadays are themselves enthusiasts. I think that
if the Coney Cyclone had not existed and had been introduced as a
new-for-2010 ride, there'd be a lot of "WTF" reactions. Not to take
anything away from it, but the time for that type of ride is past.
David Sandborg
<782dfef0-c996-4062...@g10g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
Theme Park Review <robb...@themeparkreview.com> wrote:
> Steel Poll is out:
> http://www.ushsho.com/bestrollercoasterpoll.htm
One thing that occurs to me. On the wood poll, "My Favorite Steel"
appears as #5. The top steel coaster in the poll is an Intamin hyper.
It would then fall below two Intamin plug-and-plays. Does that mean
that those wood coasters are truly better than Intamin's steel? Though
I ranked El Toro well above "My Favorite Steel" I sort of wonder what
it's really offering beyond an Intamin steelie. Not changing my
rankings but it's interesting to consider what it is that the wood
coasters add to the general Intamin mix. Just posing it as a question
because I'm not sure I have an answer myself.
Wolf
"David Sandborg" <sand...@Spam-away.ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:sanddave-B89585...@earthlink.us.supernews.com...
" "Favorite Wood Coaster" outclassed the top steel rides again this year.
It would have finished 4th, losing only comparisons to
some European and Australian Steel Coasters in countries where most of the
local wood coasters are not as highly regarded.
However, the most interesting result is that "Favorite Wood Coaster" beat
each of the top three steel coasters by large margins
among mutual-riders. The opposite is true in the wood poll as "Favorite
Steel" lost by healthy margins to each of the top three
wooden coasters. "
So Best Steel Coaster loses in the wood poll, and Best Wood Coaster loses in
the steel poll. I'm not sure the two can be treated as a paired analysis.
David Sandborg
"Wolf" <bill.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
True, there are some peculiar results. I like your analysis of why the
favorite wood won against the top three head to head, but still came out
below them. It could in fact be a strange case where less experienced
riders have a definitive influence that can outweigh the more
experienced riders.
> So Best Steel Coaster loses in the wood poll, and Best Wood Coaster loses in
> the steel poll. I'm not sure the two can be treated as a paired analysis.
It does sound like a case can be made in favor of favorite wood coaster
against the steelies though. Unfortunately we couldn't know for sure
without a combined wood/steel poll. I do have a sense that the Intamin
wood coasters outrank their steel though. Anybody who has that
preference (or the opposite, for that matter) care to try to elaborate
why?
Wolf
> favorite wood won against the top three head to head, but still came out
> below them. It could in fact be a strange case where less experienced
> riders have a definitive influence that can outweigh the more
> experienced riders.
>
>> So Best Steel Coaster loses in the wood poll, and Best Wood Coaster loses
>> in
>> the steel poll. I'm not sure the two can be treated as a paired analysis.
>
> It does sound like a case can be made in favor of favorite wood coaster
> against the steelies though. Unfortunately we couldn't know for sure
> without a combined wood/steel poll. I do have a sense that the Intamin
> wood coasters outrank their steel though. Anybody who has that
> preference (or the opposite, for that matter) care to try to elaborate
> why?
I would, but I don't agree with it. =)