AIRTIME: Just how important is it?
ACEer 2
I've noticed that many ACEers rate coasters on how much airtime
they give. Very rarely (if at all) do I hear us talk about the other
forces: LATERAL and POSITIVE. Certainly, we all must enjoy the laterals on
coasters like THUNDERBOLT and the BEAST, no? I'm sure we enjoy the
positive forces enduced on coasters like megaloopers and some woodies, no?
Are coasters really that much at a loss with little or no negative
g's? I admit that I like the double dip off of KW's JACK RABBIT or the
hills on PKD's HURLER as much as anyone, but tell me: why is airtime so
important? Be nice now! No flames! :-)
Peace,
Marcus Prater
ACE...@aol.com
ro...@omni.voicenet.com
> Are coasters really that much at a loss with little or no negative
>g's? I admit that I like the double dip off of KW's JACK RABBIT or the
>hills on PKD's HURLER as much as anyone, but tell me: why is airtime so
>important? Be nice now! No flames! :-)
My own opinion is that the airtime is what gives you that "left
the stomach behind" feeling. It provides the internal sensation
that lets you know that this is no simple train ride.
Coasters can still be fun without the airtime, but the airtime
does really add to the experience.
Ron
Tony W. Wittrien
can give....now THAT'S leaving the stomach behind....:)
Just my 2 cents,
The-Nail
ansley
>Hello all,
> I've noticed that many ACEers rate coasters on how much airtime
>they give. Very rarely (if at all) do I hear us talk about the other
>forces: LATERAL and POSITIVE. Certainly, we all must enjoy the laterals on
>coasters like THUNDERBOLT and the BEAST, no? I'm sure we enjoy the
>positive forces enduced on coasters like megaloopers and some woodies, no?
> Are coasters really that much at a loss with little or no negative
>g's? I admit that I like the double dip off of KW's JACK RABBIT or the
>hills on PKD's HURLER as much as anyone, but tell me: why is airtime so
>important? Be nice now! No flames! :-)
>Peace,
>Marcus Prater
>ACE...@aol.com
Airtime is the single best thing about rollercoasters, and IMHO it is by far
the most important factor when rating coasters. Floating out of the seat
while riding coaters is an exhilerating feeling which gives the rider the
idea that at any moment, in theory, he could float out! It's the
uncertainty, the tempting of disaster, that airtime provides which gives that
classic rollercoaster adrenalin rush! There is no feeling, on any ride,
which can match that magnificant feeling of Airtime especially with the lap
bars about 6 inches from your legs! Certainly, lateral and postive G's,
speed, great views, and inversions add things to the ride but Airtime is
King! On steel coasters I like a more rounded overall experience because
they seem to handle high speeds and strong positive G's better than their
wood counterparts.
Ted Ansley **Rollercoaster Fan<atic>**
MD/DC ACE Regional Rep
ans...@annap.infi.net
Michael Gladstone
>
Michael Gladstone
>can give....now THAT'S leaving the stomach behind....:)
Actually, come try Drop Zone at PGA when it opens in March. I'm positive
this will be the single most scary ride, ever.
Michael
Sorry about the post before, I hit "post" when I really wanted "paste"..
Merry Christmas!
Pete Babic
In a previous article, ace...@aol.com (ACEer 2) says:
> Are coasters really that much at a loss with little or no negative
>g's? I admit that I like the double dip off of KW's JACK RABBIT or the
>hills on PKD's HURLER as much as anyone, but tell me: why is airtime so
>important? Be nice now! No flames! :-)
Marcus, airtime is my favorite part of a coaster ride. It's hard to explain
but I think it is because of the out of control, "wild" feeling that it gives.
If a coaster provides plenty of airtime I can almost always give it a high
rating, but if a coaster has no airtime it has to be VERY good in everything
else it does to get a high rating.
--
The Legacy of Art Modell: THE DRIVE! | Pete Babic
THE FUMBLE! | p...@po.cwru.edu
THE MOVE! | CWRU
DISCLAIMER: Opinions do not represent Case Western Reserve University
Dave Althoff
In response, I would like to pose a question: What does a roller
coaster provide to the rider?
A roller coaster ride is a complete experience. Elements of that
experience include the visual elements...headchoppers, foot choppers,
impossibly long or steep drops, large trains squeezing through tight
spaces, spindly scaffolds, and so forth. In many cases, this is where
the initial anxiety felt by many riders comes from...the sheer height
and impossibility of it all. Then there are the auditory
elements...the rushing wind, the clattering wheels, the ominous noise
of the safety ratchet.
Finally, the unifying element to all this is the varied physical forces
experienced by the rider. These forces are what convince you that this
is absolutely real. The danger that you imagine perched atop a 78'
hill is, in fact, real. When you fly 'round an impossibly tight curve,
you don't just see it, you *feel* it. This is why no simulator can
possibly recreate the feeling of actually being on a good coaster.
The forces exerted on a rider can be expressed as in terms of
direction. We associate various forces with different conditions.
During the course of a coaster ride, we are tilted backward for the
lift hill, lifted up for the drop, mashed down for the pull-outs, and
tossed sideways for the curves. Sudden accelerations of the train...as
hitting the bottom of a steep upward incline or the station brakes at
the end of the ride...even provide a forward force. In short, on a
good coaster, riders are subject to forces in at least five, and more
likely six, directions. It is this unique mixture of continuously
varying forces that, in my opinion, makes for a fantastic coaster ride.
This is also why I really don't like Raptor as much as Magnum,
Wildcat, or Blue Streak...B&M have done such a good job of making sure
that the rider only feels force in one direction that much of what I
ride a coaster for simply doesn't exist.
Of those forces, most are quite common, and completely expected. We
fall downward every time we sit down, and increasing that vertical
force is unusual, but not frighteningly so. Drive down a winding road,
and you are thrown left or right as you hit the curves. Approach a
freeway entrance for that rush of acceleration; encounter a traffic jam
for the opposite. This leaves only one force which, though we may
occasionally experience it in everyday life, is comparatively rare.
That force is an upward acceleration...either a reduction in apparent
weight, or total weightlessness as the coaster is ripped out from
underneath us. This is what we refer to as "air-time." It is a novel
experience, in which we are quite literally left hanging, in a
situation that we do not frequently encounter. The natural reaction to
this is a fear of getting pitched out, because our brains don't quite
know how to handle this unusual experience. This is the one sensation
that an amusement ride, particularly a roller coaster, can provide
which is normally not available anywhere else. Add to that the
coaster's ability to mix forces and you get the experience which sets a
coaster apart from any other event. This is where the out-of-control
feeling of a coaster really comes from...that sense of impending
disaster and the feeling that you can't do anything about it.
Give me lots of forces. That's what coasters are all about. In
particular, give me airtime. That's what makes the coaster so special.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
--
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Robert H. Brown
forces encountered on roller coasters vs those in daily life (but, it's
too long to quote, so I won't).
While I agree fully with your post, you left out another force --
inversion. Most people don't experience being flipped upside-down that
often in their life, either -- which is why loops and corkscrews are so
popular on coasters.
There are many other amusement rides that provide this feeling aside from
coasters, however, and many do it much better. Huss' Topspin, Chance's
Skydiver or Zipper (especially the zipper), the various loops & over the
top swing rides, roll-o-planes, etc.
Air-time, on the other hand, is not as easy to manufacture. Parachute or
other drop rides and the occasional fast moving double ferris wheel (yes,
if you're in the right place at the right time) are about it, but they
don't do it as well or as often as a good coaster.
Which is why a coaster without air time is missing the very thing that
makes a coaster more than a fast moving choo-choo train.
--
--Robert H. Brown
* *
* One of the few, the proud, the increasingly crowded . . . *
* Native Floridian. *
* *
Jim 1229
I must agree with my fellow coaster lovers, airtime is definately an
important element for a coaster. Growing up in Atlanta I loved the Great
American Scream Machine, but it was basically just up and down and turn
around and then up and down some more. Granted, this is a beatiful
coaster and I still remember the thrill of knowing I was riding the
largest in the world (at that time) but it wasn't really "wild." After
moving to Florida we had <sigh> the Florida Hurricane (aka Roaring Tiger)
at Boardwalk and Baseball (aka Circus World) and it too, was just up and
down, turn around etc. I always thought this was a gorgeous coaster (and
I even had the opportunity to operate it while working there one summer)
but nothing had prepared me for a coaster with AIRTIME.
My former girlfriend and I took a trip a few years ago to SFOG and rode
the GA Cyclone. We thought, "we love the back seat, we'll ride there."
BAD mistake (or was it?). We had NEVER been on a coaster that did all the
things that coaster did to us. It slammed us up, down, sideways and then
kept it up for what seemed like eternity. I had the opportunity to take
another friend on it recently and we regret we didn't buy the picture they
take of you. They must take it in JUST the right spot because the look of
sheer terror/delight on our faces was priceless.
I look forward to riding all coasters, especially the Beast (which so many
seem to be maligning lately) but I must admit, give me airtime!
Jim Rhodes,
Another native Floridian (and waiting for Montu...)
Dave Althoff
(thankfully, NOT quoting me...that's too many lines!)
: While I agree fully with your post, you left out another force --
: inversion. Most people don't experience being flipped upside-down that
: often in their life, either -- which is why loops and corkscrews are so
: popular on coasters.
This is probably a completely different discussion, but I think of
inversions on coasters as more of a visual experience. If you were
blindfolded and riding on a looping coaster, you would not feel that as an
inversion. Most looping coasters...particularly the B&M and Schwarzkopf
loopers...are engineered so that the force on the rider is strongly
downward through the loop. Which is why I didn't mention the inversions
in my post last night...I was referring to forces experienced by the rider
in his frame of reference. Loops on coasters are, in my opinion,
popularized by the sheer apparent impossibility, and the unusual point of
view that one gets on an inverting coaster.
Now, the carnival rides you mention do, in fact, pitch around enough for a
rider to experience inversion, and all that implies (blood running to the
face and suchlike). But I have yet to experience quite that on a coaster.
Of course, I have not ridden any of the TOGO heartlines, either...
John Bennett
dal...@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Dave Althoff) wrote:
(...) >This leaves only one force which, though we may
>That force is an upward acceleration...either a reduction in apparent
>weight, or total weightlessness as the coaster is ripped out from
>underneath us. This is what we refer to as "air-time." It is a novel
>experience, in which we are quite literally left hanging, in a
>situation that we do not frequently encounter. The natural reaction to
>this is a fear of getting pitched out, because our brains don't quite
>know how to handle this unusual experience. This is the one sensation
>that an amusement ride, particularly a roller coaster, can provide
>which is normally not available anywhere else.
You haven't been driving fast enough, nor on the right roads. :)
--John
John Bennett =-=-=-=-=-=-= "They listened intently to what he said,
Phoenix, Arizona USA =-=-= and then they ate him." - Anonymous
ben...@primenet.com =-=-=
www.primenet.com/~bennett = Protect your right to privacy, while it lasts!
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ansley
>Dave Althoff posted a long and quite well reasoned discussion of the
>forces encountered on roller coasters vs those in daily life (but, it's
>too long to quote, so I won't).
>While I agree fully with your post, you left out another force --
>inversion. Most people don't experience being flipped upside-down that
>often in their life, either -- which is why loops and corkscrews are so
>popular on coasters.
>There are many other amusement rides that provide this feeling aside from
>coasters, however, and many do it much better. Huss' Topspin, Chance's
>Skydiver or Zipper (especially the zipper), the various loops & over the
>top swing rides, roll-o-planes, etc.
>Air-time, on the other hand, is not as easy to manufacture. Parachute or
>other drop rides and the occasional fast moving double ferris wheel (yes,
>if you're in the right place at the right time) are about it, but they
>don't do it as well or as often as a good coaster.
>Which is why a coaster without air time is missing the very thing that
>makes a coaster more than a fast moving choo-choo train.
>--
>--Robert H. Brown
>* *
>* One of the few, the proud, the increasingly crowded . . . *
>* Native Floridian. *
>* *
Another ride which provides good airtiime is the wonderful Kangaroo
ride at Kennywood. It is the only one I've seen and/or ridden and
is one of my personal favorite non- coaster rides!
ansley
>Airtime...
I took a night ride in the back seat of the Georgia Cyclone this summer in
June and was one of my top 10 coaster rides! The airtime was excellant and
the GC offer an exceptional ride. The first couple of drops are almost as
good as the original Cyclone and the airtime is better due to the loose lap
bars. I left the orange individual bar about 6 to 8 inches above my lap. The
best airtime I experienced this year was on the following coasters at these
times, most were at night!
Georgia Cyclone- night ride on June 21, back seat.
Predator- night rides during ERT at ACE Summer Con., Aug. 12, back and
especially the front seat!
Cyclone(Coney)- back 3 seats(very back is painful), during ACE plaque
cerimony on Aug. 5.
Wild One- night rides after rain on Oct. 27 in 2nd from back seat.
(Remember this Marcus!)
Hurler- front seats during night ERT at MACC's Screamfest on April 8.
Big Dipper(GL)- back and front seats on June 1.
Comet(GE)- night rides during Octoberfest on Sept. 16 in back and front seats
Phoenix- night rides during Phall Phunfest on Oct. 7 in back and front seats.
Wilde Beast- back seat on first drop on Aug.14.
Desperado-night rides during ERT at ACE Fall Con., Oct. 19 in back 2 seats.
Magnum XL200- night rides during ERT at Coastermania, June 2 in front car.
They aren't in any particular order but the Georgia Cyclone, Predator, Comet,
and Cyclone all stand out as the best IMHO. The airtime and itensity of
these coasters is what makes them my top 4 wood coasters!
All these coasters are in my top 10 wood and steel lists, except Wilde Beast
at 13, mainly due to their excellant airtime!
CheriSS
dal...@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Dave Althoff) wrote:
(...) >This leaves only one force which, though we may
>occasionally experience it in everyday life, is comparatively rare.
>That force is an upward acceleration...
Dave -- excellent explanation of why airtime is so great!!!!
IMHO, airtime is usually the determining factor in my opinion of a
coaster. But everyone is entitled to their opinion!
In article <4c1vfv$8...@news.infi.net>, ans...@annap.infi.net (ansley)
writes:
>Another ride which provides good airtiime is the wonderful Kangaroo
>ride at Kennywood. It is the only one I've seen and/or ridden and
>is one of my personal favorite non- coaster rides!
>
Ted-- this is one of my favorite rides as well. FYI, there is another one
at La Feria Chapultepec in Mexico City!
Does anyone know the official name for these? I want to call it a Flying
Coaster, but I'm not sure if that's correct.
-- Cheri
Joe Schwartz
> In article <4c1vfv$8...@news.infi.net>, ans...@annap.infi.net (ansley)
> writes:
>
> >Another ride which provides good airtiime is the wonderful Kangaroo
> >ride at Kennywood. It is the only one I've seen and/or ridden and
> >is one of my personal favorite non- coaster rides!
> >
> Ted-- this is one of my favorite rides as well. FYI, there is another one
> at La Feria Chapultepec in Mexico City!
>
> Does anyone know the official name for these? I want to call it a Flying
> Coaster, but I'm not sure if that's correct.
Yep, that's the name I've seen at Waldameer Park (Erie, PA). BTW, I was
there in late summer '94, and they said they were looking to sell theirs,
because it was a maintenance headache and had been down all summer. I
wonder if anyone bought it...
------------------+--------------------------------------------------------
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Dave Althoff
the one at Kennywood (Kangaroo), and the neat thing is that it appears to
be such a simple machine. I can scarcely imagine how it could become a
major maintenance headache, unless some of the parts are hard to obtain.
Does anyone know who the manufacturer was for these things?
73157...@compuserve.com
>Does anyone know who the manufacturer was for these things?
product. The cars are exactly like Scrambler cars and I know
Eli Bridge manufactures those.
Derek Gee
Shawn Mamros
>The Flying Coaster is a FANTASTIC ride. The only one I have ridden was
>the one at Kennywood (Kangaroo), and the neat thing is that it appears to
>be such a simple machine. I can scarcely imagine how it could become a
>major maintenance headache, unless some of the parts are hard to obtain.
>
Just looked it up in my Kennywood book (the one written by Charlie Jacques).
The Flying Coaster was designed by Norman Bartlett (of Flying Turns fame)
and built by a company named Aeroaffiliates, out of Fort Worth, Texas.
Kennywood installed theirs in the 1962 season.
Can't say I've ever heard of Aeroaffiliates otherwise... If they are
no longer in business, this might help explain why Waldameer feels they
can no longer maintain theirs.
-Shawn Mamros
E-mail to: mam...@ftp.com
76453...@compuserve.com
che...@aol.com (CheriSS) writes:
>In article <4c02p9$f...@acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us>,
> dal...@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Dave Althoff) wrote:
>(...) >This leaves only one force which, though we may
>>occasionally experience it in everyday life, is comparatively rare.
>>That force is an upward acceleration...
>
>Dave -- excellent explanation of why airtime is so great!!!!
>
>IMHO, airtime is usually the determining factor in my opinion of a
>coaster. But everyone is entitled to their opinion!
>
>writes:
>
>>Another ride which provides good airtiime is the wonderful Kangaroo
>>ride at Kennywood. It is the only one I've seen and/or ridden and
>>is one of my personal favorite non- coaster rides!
>>
>Ted-- this is one of my favorite rides as well. FYI, there is another one
>at La Feria Chapultepec in Mexico City!
>
>Does anyone know the official name for these? I want to call it a Flying
>Coaster, but I'm not sure if that's correct.
>
The type of ride you seem to be describing is a Himalaya. They usually have
a Blizzard/North Pole/Ski theme but, I have seen many themed as "love"
rides. The Love Bug, El Tren del Amor(Which is what you seem to be
describing at Chapultepec) are themed this way because riders are thrown
to the side of the cart as it spins, making riders embrace.
I hope this information is useful.
>--David Reynoso age 14
Dave Althoff
(quoting Cheri...)
: >Does anyone know the official name for these? I want to call it a Flying
: >Coaster, but I'm not sure if that's correct.
: >
: >-- Cheri
: The type of ride you seem to be describing is a Himalaya. They usually have
: a Blizzard/North Pole/Ski theme but, I have seen many themed as "love"
: rides. The Love Bug, El Tren del Amor(Which is what you seem to be
: describing at Chapultepec) are themed this way because riders are thrown
: to the side of the cart as it spins, making riders embrace.
: I hope this information is useful.
Sorry, David, that ISN'T what we're talking about.
The Himalaya (most of the ones I've seen are from Reverchon) has twenty
cars arranged in a continuous circular train, attached to a central
armature. The cars travel on an undulating track at ever increasing
speeds, providing great fun and lots of horizontal and vertical motion.
Great ride for couples!
The Flying Coaster, on the other hand, consists first of eight cars, each
mounted on the end of an arm attached to a central armature. The arm is
connected in such a way that the car can be raised about 6'. There is a
control arm attached to each car and to the central armature. This
control arm contains a pneumatic damping piston. Under each car is a
shock-absorber mechanism and a large tire. This wheel rolls on a steel
track laid out around the base of the ride. The track is perfectly flat
most of the way around, but at one point, it ramps suddenly upward, then
abruptly drops vertically to the ground. The cars are pulled around the
track by the central armature, and when they encounter the ramp, they rise
abruptly, preloading the damping piston. The cars "pop" over the top of
the ramp, going airborne at the top due to the track's vertical drop. The
damping piston regulates the descent of the car...in fact, once the ride
reaches top speed, the car almost reaches the bottom of the ramp before
landing on the track again. This is a REALLY fun machine.
ASCII artwork of the track: /|
/ | (direction of travel: -> )
/ |
________/ |_________
The upholstered cars seat two or three across and are equipped with lap bars.
ste...@vnet.ibm.com
>76453...@compuserve.com wrote:
>
>(quoting Cheri...)
>: >Does anyone know the official name for these? I want to call it a Flying
>: >Coaster, but I'm not sure if that's correct.
>: >
>: >-- Cheri
>
>: The type of ride you seem to be describing is a Himalaya. They usually have
>: a Blizzard/North Pole/Ski theme but, I have seen many themed as "love"
>: rides. The Love Bug, El Tren del Amor(Which is what you seem to be
>: describing at Chapultepec) are themed this way because riders are thrown
>: to the side of the cart as it spins, making riders embrace.
>: I hope this information is useful.
>
>Sorry, David, that ISN'T what we're talking about.
I agree it is NOT the Himalaya. And it's not the Tren del Amor at La Feria. The one at La Feria was over near the go-karts, but I don't recall seeing a name on it. Long time ago there was one at the original Elitch Gardens. The name on that one was something like "Sprung Schanze". We have old home movies of my sister and me on it being merrily ejected from our seats again and again.
Mike Paddock
> The Flying Coaster, on the other hand, consists first of eight cars, each
> mounted on the end of an arm attached to a central armature. The arm is
> connected in such a way that the car can be raised about 6'. There is a
> control arm attached to each car and to the central armature. This
> control arm contains a pneumatic damping piston. Under each car is a
> shock-absorber mechanism and a large tire. This wheel rolls on a steel
> track laid out around the base of the ride. The track is perfectly flat
> most of the way around, but at one point, it ramps suddenly upward, then
> abruptly drops vertically to the ground. The cars are pulled around the
> track by the central armature, and when they encounter the ramp, they rise
> abruptly, preloading the damping piston. The cars "pop" over the top of
> the ramp, going airborne at the top due to the track's vertical drop. The
> damping piston regulates the descent of the car...in fact, once the ride
> reaches top speed, the car almost reaches the bottom of the ramp before
> landing on the track again. This is a REALLY fun machine.
>
> ASCII artwork of the track: /|
> / | (direction of travel: -> )
> / |
> ________/ |_________
> The upholstered cars seat two or three across and are equipped with lap
bars.
--
Hey at last I know what your talking about, this ride can be found
over here at traveling fairs. The ones that I have seen have usually
been called The Ski Jump.
I have been reading this thread trying to work out what sort of ride
it was, it is difficult at times because y'all use unfamiliar names
for common rides, it took a long time to find out that what you call
a tilt-a-whirl we call waltzers, still it all adds to the fun.
But Dave, is the take off slope that steep?. It looks to me like the
leading edge of the car would crash into ramp!. :-)
Mike.
.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Mike Paddock EMail mike@ |
| Mail sent via Demon Internet - Full IP for 10/Month Tel:0181 371 1234 |
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Dave Althoff
: We really need to take more photos of these rides, to let everyone know
: what we're talking about when we refer to Ride X. So far I've got pictures
: of a Zipper and a Turbo on the Gboro FTP site, but I want to get some shots
: of a Tumble Bug, Flying Scooters, Rock/Roll/Loop/Fly-O-Plane, Flying
: Coaster, Whip, Rock 'n' Roll, etc. One trip to Whalom Park (Lunenburg, MA)
: will give me most of those. :-)
Or at least get some good descriptions archived someplace. What ever
became of the project to list the non-coaster rides at all the parks that
someone was working on? It seems to me that the way to go would be to
have a master list someplace (a web page would be great...) with all of
these common rides listed and described by common name. Then perhaps
lists of various parks' attractions listing the park's name and the common
name. For instance, I think there are very few of us who go to Cedar
Point and refer to the Witches' Wheel by its common name, "Enterprise."
Hmmmmmmm...
John Nagy
Dwayne L. Allen
_________
/_CYCLONE/_
/__RACER_/