Screechin' Eagle
kat...@aol.com
the Screechin' Eagle will soon be demolished.
Ken Simmons
Pathetic BaSSclown
> It was reported at yesterday's Northeast Ohio ACE Holiday Party that
> the Screechin' Eagle will soon be demolished.
Hey, let's all buy it and move it somewhere!
No, wait, bad idea. :-)
I'm bummed I missed this one. Sounds like I would have liked it.
AlRx60
wrote:
Very sad to hear that! It's just hard to describe this insane,
ejector, thigh bruising, fun coaster to those who have not ridden
it. ;)
It deserves to be saved!!
KenR
Theme Park Review
Why is it that every ride that is going to be demolished has to be the
"OMFG BEST RIDE IN TEH WORLD!!! TOO BAD YOU DIDN'T RIDE!!!" as soon
as it's announced it's going to be torn down? I really liked the
ride, but I wouldn't call it "hard to describe" when really, it's
fairly easy to describe: It beat the shit out of you and had decent
airtime. As far as out and back woodies go - it was on par with
something like Timber Terror at Silverwood. "Good", sure, but not
legendary.
Although I would have saved this one over Big Dipper or Zippin Pippin,
but still, I'd rather have a brand spakin' new Intamin, GCI, or TGG
over this ride being saved any day...
--Robb "Of course, then again, I could give two shits about bragging
rights..." Alvey
Pathetic BaSSclown
> Why is it that every ride that is going to be demolished has to be the
> "OMFG BEST RIDE IN TEH WORLD!!! TOO BAD YOU DIDN'T RIDE!!!" as soon
> as it's announced it's going to be torn down?
That's hardly what Ken said.
Theme Park Review
CanobieFan
as far as TR's Ive seen from the 90's I never saw any that said the
ride sucked or was awful, maybe it *was* just a good ride. There are
plenty of new rides that are just awful and should be ripped down. And
makers like Intamin or GCI are far from perfect. I cant think of a
more bulky and unnecessarily large lapbar than the GCI Flyer train
has... Yet I seem to be the only one who doesn't LOVE them? Hmm,
opinions.
From: FREDo...@webtv.net (FRED of LA)
Date: 2000/01/06
Subject: Re: Some Sad News: Americana will not open in 2000
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What a tragedy if we should lose Screechin Eagle......one of the best
out and back wooden coasters in the world
People cared in 2000 about saying the ride...
Hmm and look what else I can find.... Someone cared in 2001 too.
From: robbal...@aol.comGerstlar (Robb Alvey)
Date: 11 Feb 2001 16:28:07 GMT
Local: Sun, Feb 11 2001 11:28 am
Subject: Re: Screechin Eagle, Idora Park and Myers Lake
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When I rode it after it re-opened, I found it to be 'fun and
historical'. Last
year, after they had put the steel sidings on the tracks, it just
plain kicked
ass!!
I'm happy that I was a supporter.
cheers.
--Robb
Kirk Ritchey
Robb...perhaps it would better to say "That's how it came across to
me" as opposed to "That's how it came across." I do not mean that
rudely, but I really do not think you need to speak for others reading
this post and that is what you "appear" to do when you respond. While
you are certainly entitled to your interpretation (as if you needed me
to say that you are entitled) that does not mean that everyone thinks
Ken came across that way. I happened to think he did not come across
that way.
Just out of curiosity, what would be an example of a recent coaster
(say 15-20 years) that we have lost that would be legendary in your
eyes? You see, the problem for me when I think about "what appears" to
be your rationale is that some coasters that are legendary at times,
may or may not always stay that way...depending on the level of upkeep
and maintenance (or for that matter if the park changes the profile).
The reality is, there are some coasters that have been standout
coasters in the past and may not have remained that way. Given that
possibility, perhaps a coaster that many speak highly of...may in fact
turn out to be a standout coaster if it were ever rebuilt...despite
how it may have come across at the time you or I rode it.
Richard Bannister
wrote:
Unfortunately we've got two people named Ken posting in this thread;
are you sure you're not mixing them up?
The first Ken simply stated the facts with no opinion added therein.
The second Ken (AIRX60) lamented the loss of a great ride and called
for it to be saved.
Having not been on the coaster at all I can't pass judgment beyond
that.
Richard Bannister
www.themeparks.ie
Pathetic BaSSclown
wrote:
> Unfortunately we've got two people named Ken posting in this thread;
> are you sure you're not mixing them up?
>
> The first Ken simply stated the facts with no opinion added therein.
>
> The second Ken (AIRX60) lamented the loss of a great ride and called
> for it to be saved.
I was referring to Ken Rutherford, Richard. Thanks for the heads up,
didn't even notice that.
Wolf
Texas Cyclone
Aska
Eagle's Fortress
--
|\-/|
<0 0>
=(o)=
-Wolf
Theme Park Review
> Robb...perhaps it would better to say "That's how it came across to
> me" as opposed to "That's how it came across." I do not mean that
> rudely, but I really do not think you need to speak for others reading
> this post and that is what you "appear" to do when you respond. While
> you are certainly entitled to your interpretation (as if you needed me
> to say that you are entitled) that does not mean that everyone thinks
> Ken came across that way. I happened to think he did not come across
> that way.
Yes, of course, because proper use of semantics has been such a
driving force of RRC all these years! ;) You only responded to hear
yourself talk. Just admit it. That's the only reason I'm responding
to you now!
> Just out of curiosity, what would be an example of a recent coaster
> (say 15-20 years) that we have lost that would be legendary in your
> eyes? You see, the problem for me when I think about "what appears" to
> be your rationale is that some coasters that are legendary at times,
> may or may not always stay that way...depending on the level of upkeep
> and maintenance (or for that matter if the park changes the profile).
> The reality is, there are some coasters that have been standout
> coasters in the past and may not have remained that way. Given that
> possibility, perhaps a coaster that many speak highly of...may in fact
> turn out to be a standout coaster if it were ever rebuilt...despite
> how it may have come across at the time you or I rode it.
Why does it matter what I think? But without putting too much thought
into it, because I don't really care, I guess off the top of my head I
would have to say - Eagle's Fortress, Ozark Wildcat, Batman & Robin:
The Chiller, Aska (Although, let's be honest here, it's just a Viper
clone - no HUGE loss), Villain (assuming it's condition during opening
year), The Bullet... yeah, I can't think of too many.
Really, how many of the world's top 40 or 50 coasters have we
"lost???" I always get the feeling that most of the stuff people want
to save is just due to their own personal sentimental value, not
because it was really worth saving in the grand scheme of things.
--Robb "What can I say? I'm a realist." Alvey
Derek Gee
news:49b241f2-326a-444d...@w2g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 5, 7:27 pm, "kat...@aol.com" <kat...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > It was reported at yesterday's Northeast Ohio ACE Holiday Party that
> > the Screechin' Eagle will soon be demolished.
>Very sad to hear that! It's just hard to describe this insane,
>ejector, thigh bruising, fun coaster to those who have not ridden
>it. ;)
>It deserves to be saved!!
>KenR
It is an excellent ride, which does deserve to be saved. It's more fun than
the Big Dipper at Geagua Lake was. You'll likely never see ejector air like
that again on new coaster. That coaster was already saved once before
though, so I think it's used up its quota.
Sad that another Miller coaster may be lost...
Derek
Kirk Ritchey
>
> > Robb...perhaps it would better to say "That's how it came across to
> > me" as opposed to "That's how it came across." I do not mean that
> > rudely, but I really do not think you need to speak for others reading
> > this post and that is what you "appear" to do when you respond. While
> > you are certainly entitled to your interpretation (as if you needed me
> > to say that you are entitled) that does not mean that everyone thinks
> > Ken came across that way. I happened to think he did not come across
> > that way.
>
> Yes, of course, because proper use of semantics has been such a
> driving force of RRC all these years! ;) You only responded to hear
> yourself talk. Just admit it. That's the only reason I'm responding
> to you now!
>
you down, I was not trying to be rude, I was simply stating a simple
fact that you came across as if everyone had the same opinion...and I
happened to disagree with your opinion. If you think I responded just
to hear myself talk then you are far wiser than I am...I have never
claimed to know a persons motive...perhaps I have speculated what I
think that persons motive is...but that is pretty bold of you. Who
knew? A mind reader in our midst...and even via the web without
looking the person in the eye....amazing.
AlRx60
wrote:
>It is an excellent ride, which does deserve to be saved. It's more fun than
> the Big Dipper at Geagua Lake was. You'll likely never see ejector air like
> that again on new coaster. That coaster was already saved once before
> though, so I think it's used up its quota.
>
> Sad that another Miller coaster may be lost...
>
> Derek
The Starliner may raise the bar on how many lifespans a woodie can
have. ;)
If it's move back to PCB is successful, I think it will be the first
dual move for a woodie. The SE is certainly worthy of a new home.
Nearby Coney Ohio comes to mind....
KenR
Dave Althoff, Jr.
: "AlRx60" <ken...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Agreed.
Quite frankly, of the two potentially salvageable SBNO wood coasters in
Ohio, the Screechin' Eagle is very much, in my opinion, the better ride.
Personally, I think the Screechin' Eagle is a product of Miller's
development as a designer. It's a similar configuration to the Big Dipper
just because it is a simple out and back coaster, but it's tweaked a
little. Big Dipper, for instance, has a drop out of the turnaround
followed by a dogleg to align with the outbound run. Screechin' Eagle
dives out of the turnaround in a swooped drop that accomplishes the same
thing in a slightly more elegant manner. It's those little touches that I
think make the Screechin' Eagle a more refined ride.
Screechin' Eagle also ran a strange collection of trains in the years I was
able to ride it. It started with the middle cars of its NAD train, then
the first time the ride was overhauled, CCI built a new train for it that
seemed to be dimensioned after the NAD. The NAD returned, then during the
Coney Island years (and in the Couch season) it ran with a "mutt" train
built from the PTC seats and car bodies from the Elitch Gardens Wildcat,
mounted on the big wooden NAD chassis. My observation was that it was
always a violent ride until they got some of the trackwork stiffened up, at
least partly because the long NAD chassis likes to bounce between bent
legs. Switching to the PTC seats made for a noticeable improvement, as it
gained lap bar padding, although the added seat divider became an obvious
hazard on the turnaround. I remember landing on top of that stupid thing
many times.
I think the ride last operated in 2003. I'm in the process of going
through all my old video from 2000-2009. I have on-ride video shot on both
VHS and 8mm video (though I can't play the 8mm video anymore...); I think
I might have it on Mini-DV as well. If I come across it, I'll put it
on-line...
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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Theme Park Review
wrote:
> It is an excellent ride, which does deserve to be saved. It's more fun than
> the Big Dipper at Geagua Lake was. You'll likely never see ejector air like
> that again on new coaster.
Really? Because I rode Screachin' Eagle quite a few times on several
different visits and I think the airtime on wooden coasters like T-
Express, Balder, and El Toro are far more extreme than Eagle was.
Just saying....
I do agree thought that if someone was going to save an old woodie,
this one over Starliner, Big Dipper, Zippin Pippin, etc, would also
get my vote.
--Robb
Kirk Ritchey
> this one over Starliner, Big Dipper, Zippin Pippin, etc, would also
> get my vote.
>
> --Robb
Not having ridden it myself, all I have ever heard is that of all the
SBNO Woodies out there, Screechin' Eagle was/is the best. That aside,
I was surprised by the POV of Zippin Pippin i watched yesterday. It
"appeared" to have more airtime than I remembered. Perhaps, in like
new condition it may be a ride that surprises many of us. We will see!
Rastus O'Ginga
wrote:
No doubt. It is one of the few rides I've ever felt was very capable
of actually throwing me out to my death. Back seat rides were
absolutely insane. Although, I was a lot younger when I rode. NOw,
rides would probably be brutal.
I lived in Cincinnati for 3 and a half years and visited once. And
didn't even ride the damn flume (and can't seem to find any good
pictures of it). I guess I was part of the cause for the park to not
survive, because I have no real good reason why I didn't visit it more
often.
-RO
Shawn Mamros
>The Starliner may raise the bar on how many lifespans a woodie can
>have. ;)
>If it's move back to PCB is successful, I think it will be the first
The Kiddytown -> Hillcrest Park -> Little A-Merrick-A Little Dipper / Meteor
was moved twice. Not sure if there have been others.
Oddly enough, Screechin' Eagle was originally the Moxahala Park Thunderbolt,
before it moved to LeSourdsville Lake. And I do wish I could've gotten
to ride it, but alas it didn't happen.
-s
Victor Canfield
> Oddly enough, Screechin' Eagle was originally the Moxahala Park Thunderbolt,
> before it moved to LeSourdsville Lake.
Does anybody know more about this move? Cartmell's book implies that it
was one of the nearly-intact moves, but a map shows quite a different
layout at Moxahala. (And Moxahala Park doesn't have much level ground.)
Wolf
> "lost???" I always get the feeling that most of the stuff people want
> to save is just due to their own personal sentimental value, not
> because it was really worth saving in the grand scheme of things.
>
> --Robb "What can I say? I'm a realist." Alvey
Recently, or ever?
Wolf
>> than
>> the Big Dipper at Geagua Lake was. You'll likely never see ejector air
>> like
>> that again on new coaster.
>
> Really? Because I rode Screachin' Eagle quite a few times on several
> different visits and I think the airtime on wooden coasters like T-
> Express, Balder, and El Toro are far more extreme than Eagle was.
>
> Just saying....
>
> I do agree thought that if someone was going to save an old woodie,
> this one over Starliner, Big Dipper, Zippin Pippin, etc, would also
> get my vote.
>
> --Robb
El Toro sustains it pretty well, but it doesn't have the power ejector
moment that even something like Magnum has.
-Bill
Derek Gee
news:idkl3u$po4$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> I think the ride last operated in 2003. I'm in the process of going
> through all my old video from 2000-2009. I have on-ride video shot on
> both
> VHS and 8mm video (though I can't play the 8mm video anymore...); I think
> I might have it on Mini-DV as well. If I come across it, I'll put it
> on-line...
I was just looking about a week ago at some Super-8 film footage I shot of
the Screechin' Eagle in 1991 (I think). I shot it with an experimental 3D
camera and while the footage is shaky in spots, the depth effect is pretty
pronounced. I also took some 3D still photos back in 1991. I should see if
I can locate those...
There's video footage of the ride (filmed by Russell Snyder) on Robb's
"Roller Coasters in the Raw Volume 3" DVD.
Derek
Derek Gee
news:0a702d42-7170-4441...@r19g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>> than
>> the Big Dipper at Geagua Lake was. You'll likely never see ejector air
>> like
>> that again on new coaster. That coaster was already saved once before
>> though, so I think it's used up its quota.
>>
>> Sad that another Miller coaster may be lost...
>>
>> Derek
>No doubt. It is one of the few rides I've ever felt was very capable
>of actually throwing me out to my death. Back seat rides were
>absolutely insane. Although, I was a lot younger when I rode. NOw,
>rides would probably be brutal.
There's a reason Chicago's Riverview Park put those cages around the trains
on their Miller coasters - people were being ejected out of the ride! At
least if you were thrown out of your seat, you'd stay inside the train and
not fall to your death.
Derek
AlRx60
wrote:
> "Dave Althoff, Jr." <dalloff.gcfn....@sbcglobal.net> wrote in messagenews:idkl3u$po4$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Here's a 1992 clip with some POV and ground shots of the train coming
off the back turn and hill after.
You can see the riders in the back lunge upward at the 1:55 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0LVwFKl-UE
KenR
AirtimeJunkie
>
> - Show quoted text -
That's just your opinion, right? I have heard many people rave about
the Screechin' Eagle on here for years now, not just in this thread,
so I am not sure what you're talking about. I would definitely take
the Screechin' Eagle over any Intamin, GCI, or TGG, but I am a fan of
classic wooden coasters, so that would make total sense.
Dave Althoff, Jr.
: "Dave Althoff, Jr." <dalloff....@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
: > I think the ride last operated in 2003. I'm in the process of going
: > through all my old video from 2000-2009. I have on-ride video shot on
: > both
: > VHS and 8mm video (though I can't play the 8mm video anymore...); I think
: > I might have it on Mini-DV as well. If I come across it, I'll put it
: > on-line...
:
: I was just looking about a week ago at some Super-8 film footage I shot of
: the Screechin' Eagle in 1991 (I think). I shot it with an experimental 3D
: camera and while the footage is shaky in spots, the depth effect is pretty
: pronounced. I also took some 3D still photos back in 1991. I should see if
: I can locate those...
I think I remember that camera, with the giant matte box on the front. I
remember noticing because you had what I recognized as a Super-8 camera
body. I was shooting with a full-size VHS single-tube camcorder with
pretty crummy results. The battery hooked on the back of the camera and
was far too easy to knock loose, and on board the ride the transport could
not maintain tension in the dips. As a result, I shot a lot of 35mm stills
in those days. This would have been the ACE Preservation Weekend at
Americana and at Wyandot Lake.
Dave Althoff, Jr.
: I do agree thought that if someone was going to save an old woodie,
I wonder, though...
Screechin' Eagle and Big Dipper both have a certain advantage over some of
the other SBNO woodies in that they both operated in the relatively recent
past. Big Dipper had the misfortune of operating along side the Villain,
which basically puts a 1920's ride alongside a 1990's ride and invites an
(unfair?) comparison. In that case, the Big Dipper was helped by the
Villain's quick descent into disrepair and a set of Gerstlauer trains, so
everyone's most recent memories of Big Dipper are how much better it was
than the Villain.
Screechin' Eagle never had to compete with modern rides, and in fact the
only other ride in its class in its region is the Stricker's Grove Tornado.
We lost the Screechin' Eagle just late enough that many of us had a chance
to ride it, and just early enough that we didn't get to compare it with a
lot of the new CCI stuff. It had its problems (I remember the bruises
from a triple ride in the black train; I remember the horrible lap bars in
the red CCI train; and I remember that it could be downright brutal) but it
just plain outclassed anything at Kings Island, even though the Racer used
to run a lot better. I have to wonder how much of the Screechin' Eagle's
reputation is simply an accident of when it finally closed.
And I still think it would be a great addition at either Coney Island or at
the Columbus Zoo.
Wolf
>> but still, I'd rather have a brand spakin' new Intamin, GCI, or TGG
>> over this ride being saved any day...
>>
>> --Robb "Of course, then again, I could give two shits about bragging
>> rights..." Alvey- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> That's just your opinion, right? I have heard many people rave about
> the Screechin' Eagle on here for years now, not just in this thread,
> so I am not sure what you're talking about. I would definitely take
> the Screechin' Eagle over any Intamin, GCI, or TGG, but I am a fan of
> classic wooden coasters, so that would make total sense.
I think CCI/TGG have built some classics...
Wolf
>> through all my old video from 2000-2009. I have on-ride video shot on
>> both
>> VHS and 8mm video (though I can't play the 8mm video anymore...); I think
>> I might have it on Mini-DV as well. If I come across it, I'll put it
>> on-line...
>
> I was just looking about a week ago at some Super-8 film footage I shot of
> the Screechin' Eagle in 1991 (I think). I shot it with an experimental 3D
> camera and while the footage is shaky in spots, the depth effect is pretty
> pronounced. I also took some 3D still photos back in 1991. I should see
> if I can locate those...
>
> There's video footage of the ride (filmed by Russell Snyder) on Robb's
> "Roller Coasters in the Raw Volume 3" DVD.
>
> Derek
If you've got both "eye" views, it's simple enough to make an anaglyph.
Wolf
I remember those. Only real advantage was that they functioned as a second
VCR.
In fact, they tended to make better recordings than that era's VCRs.
AirtimeJunkie
I just really haven't enjoyed the GCI coasters I have been on, but in
all fairness, I haven't ridden a lot of them. Although I love their
trains, I simply can't stand their lapbars. You're exactly right
about TGG. I shouldn't have listed them.
Thanks,
Kevin
Derek Gee
news:4cfef6c4$0$4842$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
> There's video footage of the ride (filmed by Russell Snyder) on Robb's
> "Roller Coasters in the Raw Volume 3" DVD.
I forgot to add that there's also POV footage of the ride in it's Space
Rocket days on my "Parks From The Past Volume 2" DVD.
On sale now for the holidays (along with Volume One as well)!
Derek
Derek Gee
You have a good memory, Dave! That's the camera with a giant beamsplitter
on the front. The projector has a matching attachment to "decode" the 3D so
you can view with polarized 3D glasses (not the red & blue ones).
I shot my very last roll of Kodachrome Sound film a few weeks ago because
the last lab processing Kodachrome is stopping development of that film on
December 30th. So I used up the last roll, and dragged out the whole system
to review my films.
I have a 3D film of the Kennywood Racer shot the same year that's about as
perfect as that system is capable of shooting. I wish I'd have shot some
16mm 3D footage as well, but that's another story...
Derek
Derek Gee
news:ZKadnZu2n5qrtmLR...@giganews.com...
>> I was just looking about a week ago at some Super-8 film footage I shot
>> of the Screechin' Eagle in 1991 (I think). I shot it with an
>> experimental 3D camera and while the footage is shaky in spots, the depth
>> effect is pretty pronounced. I also took some 3D still photos back in
>> 1991. I should see if I can locate those...
>>
>> There's video footage of the ride (filmed by Russell Snyder) on Robb's
>> "Roller Coasters in the Raw Volume 3" DVD.
>>
>> Derek
>
>If you've got both "eye" views, it's simple enough to make an anaglyph.
If I scan the stereo pairs, I can also print them out as stereo cards (with
side by side pairs) like the old-fashioned ones great-grandma used to have
in the parlor OR they can be combined as side by side jpgs for display on
those new 3D TV's. Pretty slick, huh?
Derek
Wolf
"Derek Gee" <dgeeSP...@twmi.INVALID.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4d0050f5$0$14868$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
Do you have a pair of the old opera glasses for that? Or a Viewmaster? =)
Wolf
You've got a polarized screen?
How big is it?
Capitalize
when I was very young, so I missed out on it.
Look(ed) like a good ride; and the more old woodies not being torn
down the better.
Edwardo
'quote' in his post, from Robb Alvey, saying "I found it to be 'fun
and
historical'. Last
year, after they had put the steel sidings on the tracks, it just
plain kicked
ass!!"
Pathetic BaSSclown
Clint, stop with the drama, mkay? If you have an issue with him, email
him. This is not your personal grudge dumping ground...adults are
having a discussion here.
Thanks.
Derek Gee
(snip)
>> I have a 3D film of the Kennywood Racer shot the same year that's about
>> as perfect as that system is capable of shooting. I wish I'd have shot
>> some 16mm 3D footage as well, but that's another story...
>
>You've got a polarized screen?
>
>How big is it?
My personal silver screen (to retain the polarization) is 50x50 inches,
which is a good size for the home. I have access to larger club screen
that's suitable for a large meeting hall.
The Super-8 film is pretty dim on the 50" inch screen, but it can do sync
sound. My 16mm 3D system is quite a bit brighter and the quality of the
images much better. It costs too much to run these days though. 16mm film
is about $50 a roll for the raw film stock, plus processing.
Many of my fellow stereographers are now dabbling in 3D video, as am I. I
haven't shot any coasters yet, but I did shoot a friend of mine's band in
concert back in October.
Derek
Derek Gee
>>>If you've got both "eye" views, it's simple enough to make an anaglyph.
>>
>> If I scan the stereo pairs, I can also print them out as stereo cards
>> (with side by side pairs) like the old-fashioned ones great-grandma used
>> to have in the parlor OR they can be combined as side by side jpgs for
>> display on those new 3D TV's. Pretty slick, huh?
>
>Do you have a pair of the old opera glasses for that? Or a Viewmaster? =)
My original Realist-format stereo slides are viewed in a hand viewer.
Stereo prints can be viewed in one of those antique viewers, or any one of
many modern versions of same. The scanned images can be viewed online, or
output to other formats, including View-Master. I have friends who still
shoot with 1950s vintage View-Master cameras that produce stereo pairs in
that format that can be mounted in blank reels. It's kinda scary how many
formats you can output the images to nowdays.
Check out this wiki for starter info...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereoscopy
http://stereographer.com/index.html
Derek
Wolf
Sweet. I've got a bunch of anaglyph DVDs. I'd kill to see Creature from the
Black Lagoon in polarized. There are prints available for it in that format
still.
Edwardo
wrote:
When I replied the rest of the conversation wasn't up here yet, so
I'll continue to post as I please, thanks.
David H.--REMOVE "STOPSPAM" to reply
<robb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Dec 5, 5:13 pm, AlRx60 <ken...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 5, 7:37 pm, Pathetic BaSSclown <bassistist...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On Dec 5, 7:27 pm, "kat...@aol.com" <kat...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > It was reported at yesterday's Northeast Ohio ACE Holiday Party that
>> > > the Screechin' Eagle will soon be demolished.
>>
>> > Hey, let's all buy it and move it somewhere!
>>
>> > No, wait, bad idea. :-)
>>
>> > I'm bummed I missed this one. Sounds like I would have liked it.
>>
>> Very sad to hear that! It's just hard to describe this insane,
>> ejector, thigh bruising, fun coaster to those who have not ridden
>> it. ;)
>> It deserves to be saved!!
>> KenR
>
>Why is it that every ride that is going to be demolished has to be the
>"OMFG BEST RIDE IN TEH WORLD!!! TOO BAD YOU DIDN'T RIDE!!!" as soon
>as it's announced it's going to be torn down? I really liked the
>ride, but I wouldn't call it "hard to describe" when really, it's
>fairly easy to describe: It beat the shit out of you and had decent
>airtime. As far as out and back woodies go - it was on par with
>something like Timber Terror at Silverwood. "Good", sure, but not
>legendary.
>
>Although I would have saved this one over Big Dipper or Zippin Pippin,
>but still, I'd rather have a brand spakin' new Intamin, GCI, or TGG
>over this ride being saved any day...
>
>--Robb "Of course, then again, I could give two shits about bragging
>rights..." Alvey
I'll actually disagree with you on this one, Robb.
First off, I'll admit that I'm not a huge out-and-back fan. But, as you
said, I'd easily put it on par with Timber Terror. I'd actually probably
put it just below TT, but we also had legendary night rides on both the
Silverwoodies on that night when you only stopped in for a few hours in the
afternoon, while I've never had late rides on the Screechin' Eagle.
That said, the only out and back I'd rank above these two would Shivering
Timbers back in its prime. It was a truly excellent ride.
And I'm not the only one who thinks so. Last year it ranked at 42 on
Mitch's poll, the worst it's done yet. For the last decade, it's
consistently ranked in the top 40, and in the top 30 for the years before
that. With over 180 standing woodies, that's pretty good. The only
currently SBNO coasters that rank higher are the amazing Aska and the great
Ozark Wildcat. And let's be honest, Aska's a goner, if it isn't already
gone. (Does anyone actually know if it's still standing? I don't imagine
that people get out there all too often to check. I remember seeing some
pictures of the abandoned park online a few years back, but that's the last
I've heard of it.)
In fact, looking at the 16 year results table on Mitch's poll site, it
would be the highest ranking wood coaster to be destroyed in 10 years. In
fact, the only higher ranking woodies to be destroyed in the 16 year
history of the poll were the Idora Wildcat and the original Elitch Twister.
The Lincoln Park Comet came close. And both Villain and the Myrtle Beach
Hurricane were briefly top 40 rides in their prime, before dropping out of
the top 100 due to crappy maintenance by the parks.
As for beating the shit out of you, I thought it only really did so with
its ejector airtime. And I'll take that any day!
No, I don't think we need to really cry over the loss of every wooden
coaster out there. But I think it's truly a shame to lose the Screechin'
Eagle. It's the best woodie to be destroyed in the past decade. And I'd
definitely rather ride it again than Evil Knievel (or whatever Six Flags
ends up calling it next year) or Renegade.
"With the first link, a chain is forged. The first speech censured,
the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us
all irrevocably." -Capt. Jean-Luc Picard
"The Drumhead", _Star Trek: The Next Generation_
David H.--REMOVE "STOPSPAM" to reply
inevitable, though.)
But Texas Cyclone didn't ever even come close to Screechin' Eagle on
Mitch's poll. In its last year -- the highest it ever ranked -- it came
within 29 notches of the Eagle, probably from sentimental votes. But other
than in that fluke year, it always came much further down the list than the
Eagle.
And it's hard to compare wood and steel, though judging from all reviews of
Eagle's Fortress, it was a great ride. (I'll never know.)
Screechin' Eagle is the highest ranked woodie to be destroyed since the
Idora Wildcat in 2000.
On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 20:31:02 -0500, "Wolf" <bill.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > Why is it that every ride that is going to be demolished has to be
>>> > > the
>>> > > "OMFG BEST RIDE IN TEH WORLD!!! TOO BAD YOU DIDN'T RIDE!!!" as soon
>>> > > as it's announced it's going to be torn down?
>>>
>>> > That's hardly what Ken said.
>>>
>>> That's how it came across.
>>
>> Robb...perhaps it would better to say "That's how it came across to
>> me" as opposed to "That's how it came across." I do not mean that
>> rudely, but I really do not think you need to speak for others reading
>> this post and that is what you "appear" to do when you respond. While
>> you are certainly entitled to your interpretation (as if you needed me
>> to say that you are entitled) that does not mean that everyone thinks
>> Ken came across that way. I happened to think he did not come across
>> that way.
>>
>> Just out of curiosity, what would be an example of a recent coaster
>> (say 15-20 years) that we have lost that would be legendary in your
>> eyes? You see, the problem for me when I think about "what appears" to
>> be your rationale is that some coasters that are legendary at times,
>> may or may not always stay that way...depending on the level of upkeep
>> and maintenance (or for that matter if the park changes the profile).
>> The reality is, there are some coasters that have been standout
>> coasters in the past and may not have remained that way. Given that
>> possibility, perhaps a coaster that many speak highly of...may in fact
>> turn out to be a standout coaster if it were ever rebuilt...despite
>> how it may have come across at the time you or I rode it.
>
>Texas Cyclone
>Aska
>Eagle's Fortress
David H.--REMOVE "STOPSPAM" to reply
<robb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Why does it matter what I think? But without putting too much thought
>into it, because I don't really care, I guess off the top of my head I
>would have to say - Eagle's Fortress, Ozark Wildcat, Batman & Robin:
>The Chiller, Aska (Although, let's be honest here, it's just a Viper
>clone - no HUGE loss), Villain (assuming it's condition during opening
>year), The Bullet... yeah, I can't think of too many.
>
>Really, how many of the world's top 40 or 50 coasters have we
>"lost???" I always get the feeling that most of the stuff people want
>to save is just due to their own personal sentimental value, not
>because it was really worth saving in the grand scheme of things.
>
>--Robb "What can I say? I'm a realist." Alvey
Well, when it comes to woodies, only the Idora and Elitch woodies have
actually ranked in the top 50 on Mitch's poll at the time of their demise
in the past 16 years the poll has been taken. And those were all over a
decade ago.
And unlike Aska and Eagle's Fortress and others, it was in an area where a
lot of coaster enthusiasts live and almost all of us visit fairly
regularly, so it's a bigger loss to most of us, since it's a coaster that
we could have ridden often if it had stayed open.
So, it's fair to say that this is the biggest wooden coaster loss that the
hobby has seen in the past decade.
At least until they demolish Aska.
I have a feeling that we'll see OzCat open again eventually. Hopefully!
By the time Villain was destroyed, it was no big loss.
David H.--REMOVE "STOPSPAM" to reply
on El Toro, you're so stapled that you can't fully enjoy the extreme
airtime. So, does that really count?
On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 23:43:04 -0800 (PST), Theme Park Review
<robb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Dec 6, 7:29 pm, "Derek Gee" <dgeeSPAMSU...@twmi.INVALID.rr.com>
>wrote:
>> It is an excellent ride, which does deserve to be saved. It's more fun than
>> the Big Dipper at Geagua Lake was. You'll likely never see ejector air like
>> that again on new coaster.
>
>Really? Because I rode Screachin' Eagle quite a few times on several
>different visits and I think the airtime on wooden coasters like T-
>Express, Balder, and El Toro are far more extreme than Eagle was.
>
>Just saying....
>
>I do agree thought that if someone was going to save an old woodie,
>this one over Starliner, Big Dipper, Zippin Pippin, etc, would also
>get my vote.
>
>--Robb
Jeremy
older rides has to do with the fact that you'll never see anything
like it built in the future ever again. Especially in this day and age
where design and manufacturing processes are fairly well standardized
across the globe, half the pleasure of an older wooden coaster has
nothing to do with how it ranks compared to modern coasters (the
question about quantity of air time in comparison to El Toro as a
criteria for establishing the Screechin' Eagle's worth has me
scratching my head somewhat), it's getting a ride experience that has
so many years behind it takes on a unique individual character you
can't find anywhere else in the world.
Personally I would rather see the Screechin' Eagle preserved over
Ozark Wildcat even though I suspect in absolute terms I would call
Ozcat the better ride (I've never been on SE so I can't accurately
compare; I was fairly positive towards Ozcat though). The reason is
that if Ozcat is lost, well, GCI is still around to build another one,
probably bigger and better ones that do everything great Ozcat did and
then some more. Heck, there are two other great examples of their
craft in the state of Missouri alone. Screechin' Eagle on the other
hand, when that one goes, where else in the world will I go if I want
a ride quite like what that one provides? I think it would be a
tremendous mistake to assume that one can categorize all classic
coasters together, in my experience they can differ as much as
comparing a CCI to a plug-and-play.
I also don't like this attitude of fatalism I'm seeing in a lot of
enthusiasts, that the will of the parks is somehow this unstoppable
geist and it's best off for everyone if they don't lament and just
accept that that's how business must realistically operate. This also
came out in the whole Big Dipper episode. Yeah, it was pretty obvious
to everyone that this thing holds an extremely slim chance of ever
accomplishing anything, but I still wanted to cheer it on because
here, for once, was someone with passion who wanted to *do* something.
Even if you do the probability calculus and say, "yeah, there's a .
000000001% chance that whatever I do will actually influence the
outcome", once that attitude of "no use crying over spilled milk"
becomes part of the culture I think it can have very damaging
repercussions in the long term.
Wolf
> inevitable, though.)
>
> But Texas Cyclone didn't ever even come close to Screechin' Eagle on
> Mitch's poll. In its last year -- the highest it ever ranked -- it came
> within 29 notches of the Eagle, probably from sentimental votes. But
> other
> than in that fluke year, it always came much further down the list than
> the
> Eagle.
Texas Cyclone was dragging the Harrison Bergeronian anchor that was the
coffin cars, though. It started to rise immediately after those came off.
And even then, it was an already neutered ride. It's glory days pre-date the
poll.
Derek Gee
>Sweet. I've got a bunch of anaglyph DVDs. I'd kill to see Creature from the
>Black Lagoon in polarized. There are prints available for it in that format
>still.
I've got both anaglyph and field-sequential DVD's. There is a
field-sequential format version of Creature floating around out there. I
have an anaglyph Super-8 film digest print of it (27 minutes of it), that I
absolutely love. I'm going to upgrade to one of the new 3DTV's as soon as I
can scratch up the dough.
Derek
Derek Gee
news:93aedec5-6ad4-4459...@g25g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>Screechin' Eagle on the other
> hand, when that one goes, where else in the world will I go if I want
> a ride quite like what that one provides?
I believe the blueprints for Screechin' Eagle are still extant, so you could
conceivably rebuild the ride. The problem is getting the ride inspectors
and insurance companies to approve it.
Cue Dave Althoff discussion on ATSM Class 5 rides...
Derek
Jeremy
wrote:
> "Jeremy" <jkthompso...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Even when I look at something like the re-construction of the Zippin
Pippin using the blueprints but with modern techniques I get the
feeling that something about the way it rides will be a little bit
different... who knows, hopefully for the better. That was my point
about the historicity of these rides, after 80 years they definitely
pick up subtle but important qualities where that information isn't
represented in the blueprints nor can it be intentionally replicated.
Saving the original rolling stock would probably help a lot, though.
Theme Park Review
Fuck you. I've ridden a lot of coasters since then. My opinions
change. Not about you though. You're still an asshole.
Theme Park Review
Look I never said if some park came along, bought the blueprints, and
re-built it, I'd be upset in any way. But really, is there anything
to save as it is now? It's been standing there for how many years
with no care? The best that could happen to it is what happened to
the Zippin Pippin. But at least the Zippin Pippin had *some* selling
point, and I'm sure the Wisconsin Bay park will ride that "Elvis'
Favorite Coaster" out forever.
But has anyone really missed Screachin' Eagle these past 7 years?
Like you and I agreed, it's about on par with Timber Terror...and I
don't see people making a big deal about riding that coaster
either...but I'm sure if it was announced that Silverwood was closing
that ride there's be a whole slew of "OMG, that was the best coaster
in the world! What a shame! We should save it!!!" Is there even a
Silverwood event anymore? Here's an idea...instead of wasting energy
crying over coasters that are dead, how about putting some effort to
organize an event to celebrate the ones that are ALIVE?
I'm just trying to be realistic. What's the point of getting all sad
NOW about something that died in 2003? Just because the lumber still
stands in a form that resembles a wooden coaster doesn't mean
anything. You'd have to re-build the thing in order for it to work
anyway. And if you re-built it, I'm sure with today's building codes
you've have to change a lot and it really wouldn't be the same ride.
Might as well get GCI, TGG, or Intamin to build you something new.
When has one of their new rides NOT landed in or near the top 20?
Doesn't happen very often.
--Robb
Richard Bannister
On Dec 10, 2:44 pm, "David H.--REMOVE \"STOPSPAM\" to reply"
<davidhhhSTOPS...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
> So, it's fair to say that this is the biggest wooden coaster loss that the
> hobby has seen in the past decade.
But...but...but... what about Son of Beast? :P
(this is, of course, a joke)
Richard Bannister
www.themeparks.ie
Theme Park Review
wrote:
> (this is, of course, a joke)
Crushed. :(
--Robb "The world's only die-hard SoB Fan!" Alvey
Wolf
>>the Black Lagoon in polarized. There are prints available for it in that
>>format still.
>
> I've got both anaglyph and field-sequential DVD's. There is a
> field-sequential format version of Creature floating around out there. I
> have an anaglyph Super-8 film digest print of it (27 minutes of it), that
> I absolutely love. I'm going to upgrade to one of the new 3DTV's as soon
> as I can scratch up the dough.
>
> Derek
I know there are a couple of 35mm prints in a polarized format in existence.
They roadshow occasionally. Revenge of the Creature, too.
Wolf
>> hand, when that one goes, where else in the world will I go if I want
>> a ride quite like what that one provides?
>
> I believe the blueprints for Screechin' Eagle are still extant, so you
> could conceivably rebuild the ride. The problem is getting the ride
> inspectors and insurance companies to approve it.
>
> Cue Dave Althoff discussion on ATSM Class 5 rides...
>
> Derek
I only know of three coasters that would have violated class-5, and one of
those never opened. Only one of the other two still operates in the
grandfathered state, and it's not in the US.
Wolf
> Even when I look at something like the re-construction of the Zippin
> Pippin using the blueprints but with modern techniques I get the
> feeling that something about the way it rides will be a little bit
> different... who knows, hopefully for the better. That was my point
> about the historicity of these rides, after 80 years they definitely
> pick up subtle but important qualities where that information isn't
> represented in the blueprints nor can it be intentionally replicated.
> Saving the original rolling stock would probably help a lot, though.
There's almost no chance it will operate exactly the same. A wooden coaster
rarely operates in the same fashion between years, let alone across decades
and after a move.
Wolf
*raises hand*
It's the one that got away.
Wolf
The joke is they removed the loop and kept the rest of the ride, when they
should have done the opposite.
Derek Gee
I missed out seeing the studio archive print of Creature during the World 3D
Film Expo in 2003. (It's an original run print.) Too many film to see, and
I couldn't stay for the whole Expo. I did get to see some other whoppingly
rare films though.
Those titles are "coming soon" to DVD in the Sensio 3D format. (Which is
incompatible with the new Blu-ray players and 3DTV's. You can decode using a
computer to feed a 3DTV.)
http://www.sensio.tv/en/home_theater/3d_dvd/soon/default.3d
Derek
David H.--REMOVE "STOPSPAM" to reply
>> But has anyone really missed Screachin' Eagle these past 7 years?
>
>*raises hand*
>
>It's the one that got away.
It didn't get away from me, and I missed it!
David H.--REMOVE "STOPSPAM" to reply
It rarely rides operates in the same fashion in the same day! ;-)
CoAsTeRDaN
faster than they are building them now. So the numbers of wood
coasters just keep getting smaller.
I rode the Screechin' Eagle about 30 times all in one visit in May of
1995. I remember it being in very poor condition and it hurting at
the bottom of every drop. The entire train seemed to slam at the
bottom of each hill and just pound you to death, and this is coming
from someone who likes a little roughness in their coaster rides.
There were two hills in a row on the way out that my friend and I
would just hate to see coming each ride and there seemed to be very
little one could do to make it comfortable or even at least
tolerable.
Does anyone know if the ride ever got a complete retracking after 95?
Or did it continue to run with pot holes until is closure?
Again, always sad to see us lose one, but I won't greive it too much.
Danny
CoAsTeRDaN
kat...@aol.com
> Does anyone know if the ride ever got a complete retracking after 95?
> Or did it continue to run with pot holes until is closure?
There was a coaster club event (add-on day to WNYCC's Coasterfest?) at
Americana in 1997, and Screechin' Eagle was running really well, as it
had undergone some major rehab work.
Ken Simmons
Victor Canfield
> I only know of three coasters that would have violated class-5, and one
> of those never opened. Only one of the other two still operates in the
> grandfathered state, and it's not in the US.
Do tell.
Wolf
>>existence. They roadshow occasionally. Revenge of the Creature, too.
>
> I missed out seeing the studio archive print of Creature during the World
> 3D Film Expo in 2003. (It's an original run print.) Too many film to
> see, and I couldn't stay for the whole Expo. I did get to see some other
> whoppingly rare films though.
>
> Those titles are "coming soon" to DVD in the Sensio 3D format. (Which is
> incompatible with the new Blu-ray players and 3DTV's. You can decode using
> a computer to feed a 3DTV.)
>
> http://www.sensio.tv/en/home_theater/3d_dvd/soon/default.3d
>
> Derek
How does Sensio work?
Wolf
news:ie2q5j$n020$1...@tr22n12.aset.psu.edu...
Well, two are Schwarzkopfs, and the other one is that mess that NJ never
allowed to open.
David H.--REMOVE "STOPSPAM" to reply
reply" <davidhhh...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 23:41:39 -0500, "Wolf" <bill.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Jeremy" <jkthom...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:512e3a9a-72d1-486f...@v17g2000vbo.googlegroups.com...
>>> Even when I look at something like the re-construction of the Zippin
>>> Pippin using the blueprints but with modern techniques I get the
>>> feeling that something about the way it rides will be a little bit
>>> different... who knows, hopefully for the better. That was my point
>>> about the historicity of these rides, after 80 years they definitely
>>> pick up subtle but important qualities where that information isn't
>>> represented in the blueprints nor can it be intentionally replicated.
>>> Saving the original rolling stock would probably help a lot, though.
>>
>>There's almost no chance it will operate exactly the same. A wooden coaster
>>rarely operates in the same fashion between years, let alone across decades
>>and after a move.
>
>It rarely rides operates in the same fashion in the same day! ;-)
That was supposed to read: "It rarely operates in the same fashion in the
same day!"
Derek Gee
http://www.sensio.tv/Sites/sensio/multimedias/Produits/Dépliant%20ABC%20p2.pdf
It's a proprietary format that Sensio briefly tried to market to home users.
The decoder originally cost about $3,000 and nobody bought it. I see a
decoder now for sale for only $895! (still too much). The Sensio discs can
be decoded by a software program for your computer and output into one of
several different output formats. It's the only high quality way I know of
at the moment to own 3D versions of some of the vintage 3D titles. Discs
are $32.95 each. I saw "Taza, Son of Cochise" (starring Rock Hudson) last
July, and I was pretty impressed at the quality of the source materials
used.
Derek
David Sandborg
<93aedec5-6ad4-4459...@g25g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Jeremy <jkthom...@gmail.com> wrote:
I find this a perceptive comment. There is something to be said for
thrills, but older coasters often offer an experience that will never be
duplicated again. When they're gone, the experience is lost forever. I
like Intamin plug'n'plays and Gravity Group masterpieces as much as the
next enthusiast, but they can't entirely replace something that will be
lost. The same is true of lots of old parks we've lost over the
years-as bad a shape as Conneaut Lake is in these days, I still want to
see it pull out because there's nothing else quite like it.
> I also don't like this attitude of fatalism I'm seeing in a lot of
> enthusiasts, that the will of the parks is somehow this unstoppable
> geist and it's best off for everyone if they don't lament and just
> accept that that's how business must realistically operate. This also
> came out in the whole Big Dipper episode. Yeah, it was pretty obvious
> to everyone that this thing holds an extremely slim chance of ever
> accomplishing anything, but I still wanted to cheer it on because
> here, for once, was someone with passion who wanted to *do* something.
> Even if you do the probability calculus and say, "yeah, there's a .
> 000000001% chance that whatever I do will actually influence the
> outcome", once that attitude of "no use crying over spilled milk"
> becomes part of the culture I think it can have very damaging
> repercussions in the long term.
It may be a kind of defense mechanism. After all, there ratio of
preservation failures to successes is probably pretty large. Any
preservation effort is going to have to take a considerable amount of
effort and commitment, and I don't see too many people having what it
takes. I fully admit I don't. I might help raise money (by
participating in fundraising events) or contribute some of my own but I
honestly don't have the commitment to take the lead on such efforts. I
certainly don't take pride in such indifference though.
--
Dave Sandborg
Remove Spam-away to respond via e-mail.
Dave Althoff, Jr.
: David,
:
: On Dec 10, 2:44 pm, "David H.--REMOVE \"STOPSPAM\" to reply"
: <davidhhhSTOPS...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
: > So, it's fair to say that this is the biggest wooden coaster loss that the
: > hobby has seen in the past decade.
:
: But...but...but... what about Son of Beast? :P
:
: (this is, of course, a joke)
Trouble is, we haven't officially lost that one yet. 8-(
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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/XXXXX\ /XXX\ /XXXX\_ /X\ /XXXXX\ /X\ /X\ /XXXXX
_/XXXXXXX\__/XXXXX\/XXXXXXXX\_/XXX\_/XXXXXXX\__/XXX\_/XXX\_/\_/XXXXXX
NEW! When emailing this account, include the 'canonical magic word' in
the body of your message for a quicker response.
Dave Althoff, Jr.
: "Jeremy" <jkthom...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Do you really want to go through that again?
Actually, there is a loophole. You can convince somebody like Wolf to sign
off on it and say, "Yeah, that's OK" and run it with the original lap bar.
But is his say-so good enough for the local Authority Having Jurisdiction,
and perhaps more important for the owner's insurance carrier?
Dave Althoff, Jr.
: "Jeremy" <jkthom...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Sometimes that is a good thing. The Playland Rocket had a trim brake on
the second high turnaround (before the double-up/double-down) which did not
survive the move to Knoebels. As for between years...the Screechin' Eagle
in 1991 was pretty brutal; the Screechin' Eagle in 2002 was far less so,
and quite frankly was a bit more fun. They did reprofile it a little bit;
as seemed to be all too common in the early '90s, they raised the bottom of
the first drop. But while John Pierce raised the bottom of the Rattler's
first drop by about 30 feet, Jeff Dinn raised the bottom of Screechin'
Eagle's first drop by about six inches, just enough to squeeze a piece of
timber in between the track and the dirt...
Dave Althoff, Jr.
: >>Screechin' Eagle on the other
Er, Wolf, I think you're not thinking about what I would be talking about.
Any ride that goes below 0 Gz for more than 200 milliseconds would fall
into Class 5. A number of coasters fall into Class 5. Classification is
based on Fig. 2 in F 2291:6.4.3.2. The limits you're talking about are the
acceleration limits in F 2291:7.1.5-7.1.7.2. I take it you're referring to
Thriller, Weiner Looping, and possibly the Mindbender?
Dave Althoff, Jr.
: It's a shame to lose yet another old wood coaster. We are losing them
It wasn't even very long after that. '95...hmmmm...Do you remember what
color the train was that year? I'm guessing it was probably black. I
don't remember the exact timeline, but by 1997, the entire track had been
replaced (they actually replaced the entire track instead of re-capping it;
the old track was piled in the boneyard along the back side of the ride),
the old flywheel had been retired in favor of a new gear reducer, a control
computer had been installed in preparation for two-train operation, the
"mutt" train was operating, with the bodies of the Elitch Gardens Wild Cat
trains attached to the original NAD chassis, and the ride was actually
running quite well. It also held up pretty well during the next couple of
years when the ride didn't operate at all, so that it ran well in its final
year when Couch/Pugh were running the show.
When Park River (Coney Island) took over, the ride was re-tracked, and CCI
built a new, red train with a chassis resembling the one built by NAD, grey
upholstery, and horrible ratcheting lap bars. The train worked so
incredibly well that the following year, the black NAD train was back.
Then the NAD train got a paint job and became maroon, then they got the
Elitch's trains and built the red and blue Mutt. It runs in my mind that
the re-tracking either took an entire season (with the ride in operation)
to complete, or it was completed over two seasons.
Dave Althoff, Jr.
NAPHA conference over the 4th of July weekend. I actually have the two
buttons from that event (the event button and the Americana 75th
Anniversary button) hanging on my map board. 8-)
Wolf
Better than field-sequential?
Joe Schwartz
> It wasn't even very long after that. '95...hmmmm...Do you remember what
> color the train was that year? I'm guessing it was probably black.
I visited once in 1994 and again in 1995. The red CCI train (with white
individual ratcheting lapbars) was there in 1994, and a NAD-style maroon
train was there in 1995. These are my photos from 1995:
http://rcdb.com/322.htm?p=392
http://rcdb.com/322.htm?p=393
http://rcdb.com/322.htm?p=394
Dave Althoff, Jr.
: In article
:
: > I also don't like this attitude of fatalism I'm seeing in a lot of
: > enthusiasts, that the will of the parks is somehow this unstoppable
: > geist and it's best off for everyone if they don't lament and just
: > accept that that's how business must realistically operate. This also
: > came out in the whole Big Dipper episode. Yeah, it was pretty obvious
: > to everyone that this thing holds an extremely slim chance of ever
: > accomplishing anything, but I still wanted to cheer it on because
: > here, for once, was someone with passion who wanted to *do* something.
: > Even if you do the probability calculus and say, "yeah, there's a .
: > 000000001% chance that whatever I do will actually influence the
: > outcome", once that attitude of "no use crying over spilled milk"
: > becomes part of the culture I think it can have very damaging
: > repercussions in the long term.
:
: It may be a kind of defense mechanism. After all, there ratio of
: preservation failures to successes is probably pretty large. Any
: preservation effort is going to have to take a considerable amount of
: effort and commitment, and I don't see too many people having what it
: takes. I fully admit I don't. I might help raise money (by
: participating in fundraising events) or contribute some of my own but I
: honestly don't have the commitment to take the lead on such efforts. I
: certainly don't take pride in such indifference though.
I wouldn't even call it "indifference". A lot of it is unfortunate
reality. To lead a successful preservation effort requires resources that,
quite frankly, most of us simply do not have...most notably the time
committment required to make it happen, especially when that time and
effort is over and above what you're already expending to cover your own
"preservation". Your own well-being necessarily has to come first and by
the time most of us get done with earning a simple living, there isn't a
whole lot left. And it isn't entirely selfish that when your choice for how
to spend the few hours that remain is between tirelessly fighting an uphill
battle to save a coaster that hasn't run since 2002, when you haven't got
anywhere to put it, don't have the skills to move it, and the owner has
demonstrated a complete lack of interest in even allowing anything to
happen to it...or going off to enjoy coasters that are actually *running*,
you might happen to choose the latter.
Personally, I miss Americana terribly, and the Screechin' Eagle in
particular. I particularly miss it when I realize how much more of a park
Americana was than Coney Island currently is, and I wish I had another
option rather than yet another trip to Kings Island. It distresses me
greatly to know that there are four decent wood coasters in the Cincinnati
area, and most of the summer I can only ride one of them...arguably the
worst of the four (the only one of the four with a trim brake, in
fact)...and the best of the bunch isnt available to me at all.
Living in Columbus, it is really distressing to see the number of wood
coasters within day-trip range drive I have lost in the past 20 years--
Screechin' Eagle (SBNO)
Big Dipper (SBNO)
The Villain (DEMO)
Raging Wolf Bobs (????)
Son of Beast (SBNO)
The Beast (OPER^1)
Racer North (OPER^1)
Racer South (OPER^1)
Thunder Run (SBNO)
Twisted * Lola (SBNO)
Twisted * Stella (SBNO)
^1 They're technically operational, but a combination of mechanical
disrepair and operating procedure means I can't ride anymore so they
might as well be SBNO from my perspective.
Now, of those, Thunder Run and Twisted * have a good chance of coming back
just as the Sea Dragon did. Odds of getting Son of Beast back are about
50%, which is a shame given that of all the rides on the list that's the
one I probably care about the least. Racer and The Beast just need to have
their trains overhauled *properly* or their operational procedures changed
(preferrably both). But the Villain is gone forever, and I'm guessing that
Raging Wolf Bobs is as well. Prospects for the Big Dipper are incredibly
bleak, and for the Screechin' Eagle are about as bad. I hate to say it,
but in both cases it seems that preservation prospects are particularly bad
largely because of deliberate action on the part of the people who own the
rides. You can do all the organizing and fund raising and back-end legwork
you want to try and save the ride, but what can you really do with a ride
if the owner seems hell-bent on preventing anybody from doing anything, or
indeed seems determined to commence demolition? It's the Coney Island
Thunderbolt all over again.
Dave Althoff, Jr.
late that year) it initiallly ran with the black paint and the hand-painted
eagle on the nosepiece. I concede, though, that your photos are certainly
going to be more accurate than my memory! Unfortunately, any video that I
shot between about 1994 and 2000 is on 8mm tapes that I cant play right
now, and my photo collection (to the extent that said collection exists at
all) from that era is in terrible disarray. Likewise, while I was much
better about actually writing and publishing trip reports back then, I'm
not sure that any of them are in recoverable form now, unless I can find
them in the r.r-c archive on Google...
Pathetic BaSSclown
<dalloff.gcfn....@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> I wouldn't even call it "indifference". A lot of it is unfortunate
> reality. To lead a successful preservation effort requires resources that,
> quite frankly, most of us simply do not have...most notably the time
> committment required to make it happen, especially when that time and
> effort is over and above what you're already expending to cover your own
> "preservation". Your own well-being necessarily has to come first and by
> the time most of us get done with earning a simple living, there isn't a
> whole lot left. And it isn't entirely selfish that when your choice for how
> to spend the few hours that remain is between tirelessly fighting an uphill
> battle to save a coaster that hasn't run since 2002, when you haven't got
> anywhere to put it, don't have the skills to move it, and the owner has
> demonstrated a complete lack of interest in even allowing anything to
> happen to it...or going off to enjoy coasters that are actually *running*,
> you might happen to choose the latter.
Dave,
I thought this was particularly well said. Kudos.
When it comes to my attitude on preservation, I unfortunately have to
take a "realist's" posture. These parks are businesses. and if they
fail it's due to either failures on the business owner's part, or lack
of support from the pool of potential customers (or
both...coughcoughHARDROCKPARKcough). Smaller parks are gradually
losing their appeal...have been for decades. Yes, there are exceptions
that have carved out a niche...thank god for Santa Cruz and Knoebels!
But the wide range of entertainment options available these days
definitely makes it tougher for parks to stay in business. We live in
an age where people from Peoria to Anchorage enjoy high speed net
access, 400 digital channels, a movie theater and restaurants in every
town, etc. In order to drag people out of their houses and out of
their local downtowns (and to get them to open their wallets), you
really need to offer something unique. And your average GP member is
sure as hell going to be way more wowed by the giant rides at CP and
KI than by a old, run-down looking wooden coaster plopped next to an
RV lot. And if I was running a smaller, regional park like Americana
(or Waldameer, for instance) as much as I'd like to keep a classic
wooden coaster going, my business sense would have me looking at
adding a new wooden coaster rather than keeping an old one open.
The time is definitely NOW if there's an old ride in a small park out
there that you REALLY want to get to. I don't see survival getting
easier for these places any time soon/ever.
Theme Park Review
wrote:
> It may be a kind of defense mechanism. After all, there ratio of
> preservation failures to successes is probably pretty large. Any
> preservation effort is going to have to take a considerable amount of
> effort and commitment, and I don't see too many people having what it
> takes. I fully admit I don't. I might help raise money (by
> participating in fundraising events) or contribute some of my own but I
> honestly don't have the commitment to take the lead on such efforts. I
> certainly don't take pride in such indifference though.
What are you talking about?!?!?
"Help raise money", "Don't have the time to lead an effort..." Are
you kidding??? Dave, I once thought you were a smart person! What
happened???
Do you not understand that even if you had boatloads of money and
endless amount of time you need to present the one most important
aspect to "preserve" a wooden roller coaster -
A location to put it.
And on top of a location, you also need a maintenance staff to take
care of it, and park management to operate it. Let me spell it out to
you in plain English - You need a park to put it in.
I read your comments and it sounds like you *actually think* that
someone with a lot of money and time can just buy the ride, resurrect
it in their backyard, flip a switch, and turn it on. That's not how
it works! Maybe in your delusional world where wooden coasters are
operated with magic and particle effects, sure, but in REAL LIFE, no
one is going to "save a wooden coaster" without a park backing them up
and making it happen.
It's like I said, Zippin Pippin got lucky... And even still, there is
no guarantee that will be a success. Just look at Starliner as a
perfect example of the amount of money, effort, and work that can go
into a preservation effort, only to be an eventual failure.
Guys, the days of "a coaster enthusiast being brokers for old and
busted wooden roller coasters" is over. If a park wants an old, used
wooden roller coasters, there are plenty of professional brokers out
there who can help.
These are the people who can help save a wooden coaster. If you think
that donating your time, money, and effort will one day get Twister
Sisters back up and running again, without an established park
spearheading the effort, you need to be smoking better crack.
--Robb
Derek Gee
>>> Those titles are "coming soon" to DVD in the Sensio 3D format. (Which
>>> is incompatible with the new Blu-ray players and 3DTV's. You can decode
>>> using a computer to feed a 3DTV.)
>>>
>>> http://www.sensio.tv/en/home_theater/3d_dvd/soon/default.3d
>>>
>>> Derek
>>>
>>>How does Sensio work?
>>
>> http://www.sensio.tv/Sites/sensio/multimedias/Produits/Dépliant%20ABC%20p2.pdf
>>
>> It's a proprietary format that Sensio briefly tried to market to home
>> users. The decoder originally cost about $3,000 and nobody bought it. I
>> see a decoder now for sale for only $895! (still too much). The Sensio
>> discs can be decoded by a software program for your computer and output
>> into one of several different output formats. It's the only high quality
>> way I know of at the moment to own 3D versions of some of the vintage 3D
>> titles. Discs are $32.95 each. I saw "Taza, Son of Cochise" (starring
>> Rock Hudson) last July, and I was pretty impressed at the quality of the
>> source materials used.
>>
>> Derek
>Better than field-sequential?
Yes, it's full-frame sequential, designed to be used with 3DTV's and 3D
supporting DLP projectors! The presentation I saw was using a player
program outputting video to a pair of DLP projectors. It was theatrical
quality, with no ghosting at all.
Derek
Derek Gee
news:ieb1t1$fr0$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>Racer and The Beast just need to have their trains overhauled *properly* or
>their >operational procedures changed (preferrably both).
The train issue could be fixed with a trip back to PTC for some TLC. Cedar
Fair just needs to open up the checkbook! Then they can fix those
operational procedures...
Derek
David Sandborg
"Dave Althoff, Jr." <dalloff....@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> David Sandborg <sand...@spam-away.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> : I might help raise money (by
> : participating in fundraising events) or contribute some of my own but I
> : honestly don't have the commitment to take the lead on such efforts. I
> : certainly don't take pride in such indifference though.
>
> I wouldn't even call it "indifference". A lot of it is unfortunate
> reality. To lead a successful preservation effort requires resources that,
> quite frankly, most of us simply do not have...most notably the time
> committment required to make it happen, especially when that time and
> effort is over and above what you're already expending to cover your own
> "preservation". Your own well-being necessarily has to come first and by
> the time most of us get done with earning a simple living, there isn't a
> whole lot left. And it isn't entirely selfish that when your choice for how
> to spend the few hours that remain is between tirelessly fighting an uphill
> battle to save a coaster that hasn't run since 2002, when you haven't got
> anywhere to put it, don't have the skills to move it, and the owner has
> demonstrated a complete lack of interest in even allowing anything to
> happen to it...or going off to enjoy coasters that are actually *running*,
> you might happen to choose the latter.
I spent a lot of time thinking about the word "indifference" and whether
it was truly what I meant. It's not entirely right, but I can't think
of a better word either. In a phrase, perhaps "lack of full
commitment". I'm willing to contribute something, but not to lead a
preservation effort.
> Personally, I miss Americana terribly, and the Screechin' Eagle in
> particular.
I don't have nearly the same personal attachment to Screechin' Eagle,
but I can fully empathize. Simple consideration for the feelings of
others who may be losing rides that meant a lot to them. Even if I
don't contribute in any practical way, I support anybody's desire to
preserve a coaster that holds special memories for them.
David Sandborg
<b9803599-f9a7-4d84...@22g2000prx.googlegroups.com>,
Theme Park Review <robb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 14, 5:09 pm, David Sandborg <sandd...@Spam-away.ix.netcom.com>
> wrote:
> > It may be a kind of defense mechanism. After all, there ratio of
> > preservation failures to successes is probably pretty large. Any
> > preservation effort is going to have to take a considerable amount of
> > effort and commitment, and I don't see too many people having what it
> > takes. I fully admit I don't. I might help raise money (by
> > participating in fundraising events) or contribute some of my own but I
> > honestly don't have the commitment to take the lead on such efforts. I
> > certainly don't take pride in such indifference though.
> > Dave Sandborg
>
> What are you talking about?!?!?
>
> "Help raise money", "Don't have the time to lead an effort..." Are
> you kidding??? Dave, I once thought you were a smart person! What
> happened???
Robb, I once thought you weren't a prick. What happened???
> I read your comments and it sounds like you *actually think* that
> someone with a lot of money and time can just buy the ride, resurrect
> it in their backyard, flip a switch, and turn it on. That's not how
> it works! Maybe in your delusional world where wooden coasters are
> operated with magic and particle effects, sure, but in REAL LIFE, no
> one is going to "save a wooden coaster" without a park backing them up
> and making it happen.
Well, for what it's worth, the efforts I've financially supported (Leap
the Dips and Conneaut Lake Blue Streak) have been at their original
locations, and in fact have (so far) been successful. I made a worse
choice in the case of Whalom, but in that case got my money back anyway.
> These are the people who can help save a wooden coaster. If you think
> that donating your time, money, and effort will one day get Twister
> Sisters back up and running again, without an established park
> spearheading the effort, you need to be smoking better crack.
Whatever. You may have a more practical attitude than I, but I find
your gleeful defeatism completely distasteful. It goes beyond just
pointing out the practical difficulties with preservation efforts, which
believe me we're all aware of, but you appear to take pleasure in
pissing on threads where people simply express regret that rides they
once enjoyed may never operate again. What the hell is wrong with you?
David H.--REMOVE "STOPSPAM" to reply
Or to put it in a more human way: While it's always nice when there are
new babies in the family, that doesn't mean we want to see grandma dead!
Sure, if she's really sick, it might become inevitable. But that doesn't
make it any less sad when it happens.
Theme Park Review
wrote:
> Whatever. You may have a more practical attitude than I, but I find
> your gleeful defeatism completely distasteful. It goes beyond just
> pointing out the practical difficulties with preservation efforts, which
> believe me we're all aware of, but you appear to take pleasure in
> pissing on threads where people simply express regret that rides they
> once enjoyed may never operate again. What the hell is wrong with you?
I don't live in a fucking dream world. That's what's wrong with me.
Dave Althoff, Jr.
: "Dave Althoff, Jr." <dalloff....@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
Oh, no doubt. And I don't understand why the trains at Kings Island SUCK
SO HARD! I mean, the Mighty Canadian Ballbuster has had its profile
utterly destroyed, but the last time I was up there its trains were in
great shape. Rebel Yell is pretty much a twin of the Racer, but its trains
have soft seats and the lap bars actually have all their notches. It isn't
even a Cedar Fair thing. For me, the issue is the "you must get two
notches on the lap bar" issue. Okay, well, at Cedar Point, I ride Mean
Streak and Blue Streak with the bar in the third notch. At Holiday World,
it's three notches on the Legend and six or seven on the Voyage (Raven it
depends on which seat and which train). But for some reason, that which is
three notches at Wonderland, Kings Dominion, Cedar Point, and pretty much
every other PTC ratchet bar out there except for the very newest ones with
the (I presume) offset ratchets like the Voyage, is only one at Kings
Island. I understand making that "third notch" the one you want most
people to use, but going past that is just excluding people whose size
isn't even all that "exceptional".
If they ever convert The Beast and the Racer over to the modern (meaning
1991; these things were introduced for Mean Streak) all-mechanical lap bar
mechanisms, assuming they do it "right" it will make a huge difference in
my attitude towards those rides.
Dave Althoff, Jr.
:
: When it comes to my attitude on preservation, I unfortunately have to
: take a "realist's" posture. These parks are businesses. and if they
: fail it's due to either failures on the business owner's part, or lack
: of support from the pool of potential customers (or
: both...coughcoughHARDROCKPARKcough). Smaller parks are gradually
: losing their appeal...have been for decades. Yes, there are exceptions
: that have carved out a niche...thank god for Santa Cruz and Knoebels!
: But the wide range of entertainment options available these days
: definitely makes it tougher for parks to stay in business. We live in
: an age where people from Peoria to Anchorage enjoy high speed net
: access, 400 digital channels, a movie theater and restaurants in every
: town, etc. In order to drag people out of their houses and out of
: their local downtowns (and to get them to open their wallets), you
: really need to offer something unique. And your average GP member is
: sure as hell going to be way more wowed by the giant rides at CP and
: KI than by a old, run-down looking wooden coaster plopped next to an
: RV lot. And if I was running a smaller, regional park like Americana
: (or Waldameer, for instance) as much as I'd like to keep a classic
: wooden coaster going, my business sense would have me looking at
: adding a new wooden coaster rather than keeping an old one open.
:
: The time is definitely NOW if there's an old ride in a small park out
: there that you REALLY want to get to. I don't see survival getting
: easier for these places any time soon/ever.
I'm going to have to both agree and disagree with you on this one. 8-)
On the "agree" side--
o If I was running a smaller, regional park, and I were thinking about
adding a major ride, it would certainly make more sense to build a new one
than to move in an old one, unless I could see significant cost savings
from moving the old ride OR the old ride was a proven performer with a good
local reputation.
For instance, if I were Coney Island Park, it might make sense for me to
move the Screechin' Eagle into my park if I could get over my fear of
flooding (hey, it never seemed to hurt the Shooting Star...). But if I
were, say, Quassy, it wouldn't make any sense at all for me to add
the Screechin' Eagle, because that ride has no connection to my "place" and
for the same kind of money I could probably get some TLA to build me a new
machine customized for my location. The "preservation" thing would only
make sense if I could see significant cost savings from doing it.
Now one thing that can create substantial cost savings is if you can
salvage some of the hardware, especially the trains. That was probably one
of the most favorable arguments in favor of the Zippin Pippin project
(which, you will note, is not a relocation of the structure). And because
of the need to conform to ASTM F 2291 with new rides, unless you have a
biodynamic expert on standby and an army of attorneys to back him up, if
you're planning to re-use a classic train you'd better plan on using it on
a classic ride.
But as expensive as the trains are, it it really worth it to haul a coaster
across the country? Or even across town? Again, that's a really tough
case to make. Locally it might make sense. For Six Flags Great America to
relocate the Kiddieland coaster...given the cost of that ride, its
condition, and the fact that it could be relocated locally to an already
adoring crowd probably made that one a no-brainer.
Again, it is a shame that Coney Island didn't make a similar decision with
the Screechin' Eagle back when they had the opportunity. Of course, back
then it looked like they were selling the park as a going concern, and for
the 2002 season I was just as happy that they didn't...
Now where I am going to disagree with you, Bass, is on the viability of the
smaller parks. I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with
the business model of running a small park. By and large, the smaller
parks we're talking about are in urban or suburban areas, they have access
to a reasonably large potential market, and they can offer a subset of the
experience granted by the big parks, but at a much lower cost, a much
shorter drive, and in some cases a much better experience. The small,
single-park operator can be more flexible, can be more responsive to its
audience, and really has a quite a lot to offer. I mean, if you've got a
classic amusement park, you can potentially offer a much more attractive
experience than a local minigolf-and-arcade operation. The trick is that
you have to be responsive to the community, you have to keep the place
clean, keep the equipment in good working order, pay your taxes, and
understand that the people who are going to patronize your park today are
NOT the same kind of people who patronized your park 60 years ago. The
parks that have done all of that have generally been sucessful. There are
lots of examples out there of parks that have had success sometimes even in
the shadow of major competitors. Kennywood, Coney Island, Adventureland,
Castles 'N Coasters, Wonder Wheel Park, Adventure City, Fun Spot
(3 Florida locations), Indiana Beach, Holiday World, Lake Winnepesaukah,
Beech Bend...
It seems to me that in every case where the park has failed it hasn't
really been because the park can't succeed. It's because of other factors,
usually factors internal to the business, that lead to the failure. The
only park I can think of that has simply failed is Fun Spot (IN), and that
one hasn't officially failed, it just hasn't opened in three years. Usually
it's tax problems, succession problems, natural disaster, real estate
values, family infighting, or just plain mismanagement that brings these
parks down. Not usually a lack of business.
Wolf
>>> users. The decoder originally cost about $3,000 and nobody bought it. I
>>> see a decoder now for sale for only $895! (still too much). The Sensio
>>> discs can be decoded by a software program for your computer and output
>>> into one of several different output formats. It's the only high
>>> quality way I know of at the moment to own 3D versions of some of the
>>> vintage 3D titles. Discs are $32.95 each. I saw "Taza, Son of Cochise"
>>> (starring Rock Hudson) last July, and I was pretty impressed at the
>>> quality of the source materials used.
>>>
>>> Derek
>
>>Better than field-sequential?
>
> Yes, it's full-frame sequential, designed to be used with 3DTV's and 3D
> supporting DLP projectors! The presentation I saw was using a player
> program outputting video to a pair of DLP projectors. It was theatrical
> quality, with no ghosting at all.
>
> Derek
It's strange that Althoff is all over other parts of the original thread,
but not the part talking about projectors...
Wolf
"Dave Althoff, Jr." <dalloff....@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:ie9irk$qj0$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
It damn well better be!
Wolf
"Dave Althoff, Jr." <dalloff....@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:ie9jvl$t38$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> Wolf <bill.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> : >>Screechin' Eagle on the other
> : >> hand, when that one goes, where else in the world will I go if I want
> : >> a ride quite like what that one provides?
> : >
> : > I believe the blueprints for Screechin' Eagle are still extant, so you
> : > could conceivably rebuild the ride. The problem is getting the ride
> : > inspectors and insurance companies to approve it.
> : >
> : > Cue Dave Althoff discussion on ATSM Class 5 rides...
> : >
> : > Derek
> :
> : I only know of three coasters that would have violated class-5, and one
> of
> : those never opened. Only one of the other two still operates in the
> : grandfathered state, and it's not in the US.
>
> Er, Wolf, I think you're not thinking about what I would be talking about.
> Any ride that goes below 0 Gz for more than 200 milliseconds would fall
> into Class 5. A number of coasters fall into Class 5. Classification is
> based on Fig. 2 in F 2291:6.4.3.2. The limits you're talking about are
> the
> acceleration limits in F 2291:7.1.5-7.1.7.2. I take it you're referring
> to
> Thriller, Weiner Looping, and possibly the Mindbender?
>
> --Dave Althoff, Jr.
Weiner Looping does it, too?
GodsOnSafari
Basically, what you are saying is:
1) Run your website
2) Spend inordinate periods of time trolling people on a newsgroup
that sees 300-400 posts a month in a good month
3) ?????
4) PROFIT
Uhhh, OK?
Pathetic BaSSclown
> Basically, what you are saying is:
>
> 1) Run your website
> 2) Spend inordinate periods of time trolling people on a newsgroup
> that sees 300-400 posts a month in a good month
> 3) ?????
> 4) PROFIT
>
> Uhhh, OK?
#3 involves Underpants Gnomes, right??