1977 Rollercoaster movie question
CoasterLisa
1977 movie, Rollercoaster.
Throughout the years, I've read that there are at least three, possibly
four, different edited versions of this movie.
When I first saw it the year it came out, I recall some scenes were
longer especially one in particular. The scene where the train on the
Ocean View Rocket flies off the track is the one that stands out more
prominently for me. In the theater version, I recall seeing more gory
things happen in that scene. Blood gushing out of one person's throat,
and more people getting thrown around.
A few years after the theater version came out, I saw another version
on Show Time where the Rocket scene has the gory details but appears
shorter.
A few years later I see another version on TV and the gory parts are
deleted all together as well as some other scenes. The wonderful
introduction of the Rebel Yell that is shown like a collage is
massively edited and cut short as well.
I purchased a copy of Rollercoaster in the mid '90's and have an edited
version that is different from the original theater version.
So, finally my question is, exactly how many edited versions of this
movie are there? I eventually will be getting this movie on dvd and
want to get the original theater version. I assume that will be more
costly. But then maybe not.
Any help is appreciated.
Lisa Zigweid
Roller Coasters of The Pacific Northwest
http://www.rollercoastersofthepacificnw.com
Douglas Kell
"CoasterLisa" <coast...@isomedia.com> wrote in message
news:1132690919.1...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I have a question that has been on my mind for years now concerning the
> 1977 movie, Rollercoaster.
>
> Throughout the years, I've read that there are at least three, possibly
> four, different edited versions of this movie.
>
> When I first saw it the year it came out, I recall some scenes were
> longer especially one in particular. The scene where the train on the
> Ocean View Rocket flies off the track is the one that stands out more
> prominently for me. In the theater version, I recall seeing more gory
> things happen in that scene. Blood gushing out of one person's throat,
> and more people getting thrown around.
>
> A few years after the theater version came out, I saw another version
> on Show Time where the Rocket scene has the gory details but appears
> shorter.
Lisa
Not sure about American broadcasting principles but in the UK films are
prepared for TV at 25 / 26 frames a second instead of the usual 35mm 24
frames a second - that may appear to make sequences shorter.
Just an idea.
Bye the way the film was also available in certain movie theatres in
Sensurround - and sounds superb.
Most tv versions are edited for one reason or another- just like airline
movies.
Douggie in UK
Douglas Kell
a.. Some prints (including some German TV prints and the US video) are
missing a one second close-up on a dead man's face, bloody and with his eyes
open, right after his death at the end of the film.
a.. After the rollercoaster disaster, the Italian edition shows two more
shots of motionless bodies lying on the floor between the rest of the broken
carriages, and the public's screams are repeated twice. It also includes a
shot of the dead young man's bloody face with his wide open eyes staring at
the sky.
Hope this helps
Douggie in UK
"CoasterLisa" <coast...@isomedia.com> wrote in message
news:1132690919.1...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
mamoosh
> A few years later I see another version on TV and the gory parts are
> deleted all together as well as some other scenes. The wonderful
> introduction of the Rebel Yell that is shown like a collage is
> massively edited and cut short as well.
Of all the versions you cited this seems the most likely as broadcast
TV standards for gore and violence are stricter than pay cable. Having
seen the film in theaters the year it was released and on TV I can
vouch that the first crash was edited.
mOOSH
Danny Barnes
>The wonderful
> introduction of the Rebel Yell that is shown like a collage is
> massively edited and cut short as well.
Most likely this and other scenes were cut to add commercial time. When
a movie is repackaged for TV, especially those "late late late movie"
packages syndicated to local stations, all program and commercial time
has to fit in 2 hours. And the main reason these movie package deals
are so popular with local stations (especially the independent stations
and UPN/WB/FOX stations) is that the amount of commercial time in those
2 hours is usually in excess of 30 minutes. That's thirty 1:00 Scooter
Store commercials the station can sell. Hence the hack job on the movie
itself.
> I purchased a copy of Rollercoaster in the mid '90's and have an edited
> version that is different from the original theater version.
The VHS copy is most likely the version they edited for TV. A lot of
older movies that were released on VHS in the '80s and '90s were put out
by third-party companies that bought the home video distribution rights
to movies from the pre-home-video era (before the '80s) and many of
those videos are not the theatrical version.
BaSSiStiSt
>Of all the versions you cited this seems the most likely as broadcast
>TV standards for gore and violence are stricter than pay cable. Having
>seen the film in theaters the year it was released and on TV I can
>vouch that the first crash was edited.
And I'm also ancient enough to verify Moosh's statement... ;-)
Mike Miller
OMG, I'm a AceHo
Dave Althoff, Jr.
:
: Lisa
: Not sure about American broadcasting principles but in the UK films are
: prepared for TV at 25 / 26 frames a second instead of the usual 35mm 24
: frames a second - that may appear to make sequences shorter.
: Just an idea.
: Bye the way the film was also available in certain movie theatres in
: Sensurround - and sounds superb.
: Most tv versions are edited for one reason or another- just like airline
: movies.
In the US, the video frame rate is 30 FPS, so there are two methods used
for converting from 24 FPS film to 30 FPS video.
Method 1: Cheap telecine
A telecine projector is used which is a film projector equipped with a
5-bladed shutter. The projector operates at 24 FPS, but since each frame
is displayed five times in 1/24 second, the projector displays frames at
a rate of 120 displays per second. Since 120 is an even multiple of both
60 (the interlaced field rate) and 30 (the NTSC frame rate), the image is
displayed without flicker, though the trade-off is that some video frames
will include more than one film frame. It's fine for broadcast or for
VHS, but the imperfections of the method make DVD fans wince. Therefore,
another technique is also employed...
Method 2: 3:2 pull-down
The method commonly used now is, for historical reasons, called a 3:2
pull-down. The first frame of film is displayed for two fields, then the
second frame is displayed for the next three fields, the third frame is
displayed for the next two fields, and the fourth frame is displayed for
three fields. Since there are two fields per video frame, that means
that for every four film frames, you get five video frames. A trade-off
is that the third and fourth video frames will have split fields (one
field from an earlier frame, one field from a later frame) but that isn't
a serious problem during playback because of the interlacing: what we
are really watching isn't 30 frames per second, but rather 60 fields per
second.
And pedantically, it isn't 60 fields per second; it is closer to 59.94
fields per second, which is the reason for drop-frame time code, in which
two frame numbers are skipped at the top of every minute except when it's
a tenth minute.....
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
/-\ _ *** Machines have no friends. Ride accordingly. ***
/XXX\ /X\ /X\_ _ /X\__ _ _ _____
/XXXXX\ /XXX\ /XXXX\_ /X\ /XXXXX\ /X\ /X\ /XXXXX
_/XXXXXXX\__/XXXXX\/XXXXXXXX\_/XXX\_/XXXXXXX\__/XXX\_/XXX\_/\_/XXXXXX
Jimvid
world as well.
Being that the film is 1977, the transfers were most likely done on an old
school telecine projector system/film chain or perhaps a Magnasync telecine
(or god forbid, a Videola) to 2-inch tape. Due to the time frame, there
would have had to be seperate PAL and NTSC transfers made which also might
have caused variations.
I'm pretty sure that the DVD reissue from a few years back is a 3:2
pulldown. And while the color correction is pretty good on the DVD, they
did introduce more noise reduction than I'm normally happy with.
I still use an Elmo TRV-16 to make basic viewing copies of my materials, but
I lab everything out eventually for broadcast usage.
Jim 'jimvid' McDonnell
"Dave Althoff, Jr." <dalloff....@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:GjTgf.1373$4o7....@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net...
Dave Althoff, Jr.
: Wow, Dave I didn't realize that your tech-savvy would cover the film-to-tape
: world as well.
I thought everybody here knew that I'm *really* a video guy; I just play
a ride specialist on the Internet. 8-)
: Being that the film is 1977, the transfers were most likely done on an old
: school telecine projector system/film chain or perhaps a Magnasync telecine
: (or god forbid, a Videola) to 2-inch tape. Due to the time frame, there
: would have had to be seperate PAL and NTSC transfers made which also might
: have caused variations.
:
: I'm pretty sure that the DVD reissue from a few years back is a 3:2
: pulldown. And while the color correction is pretty good on the DVD, they
: did introduce more noise reduction than I'm normally happy with.
You know, I could check that out...I do have the DVD at home. I seem to
recall that it is NOT an anamorphic widescreen print, which disappointed
me a little. A DVD question: Are not some DVDs simply encoded at 24
FPS, set up to demand that the player do the pulldown? My video know-how
is mostly on the production side...
: I still use an Elmo TRV-16 to make basic viewing copies of my materials, but
: I lab everything out eventually for broadcast usage.
I have some old Super-8 stuff and I've been experimenting with doing
direct transfers, focusing the camera directly on the film frame in the
gate of the projector, but doing the transfer directly to a QuickTime
movie (which can run at 18 FPS). Perfect for release to the Web. Then I
can import the frames into Avid and let it change the frame rate not via
any kind of pulldown, but through interpolation. So far that has been
pretty impressive. Really time-consuming, though!
Derek Gee
> Jimvid <jim...@earthlink.netnospam> wrote:
> : Wow, Dave I didn't realize that your tech-savvy would cover the
> film-to-tape
> : world as well.
>
> I thought everybody here knew that I'm *really* a video guy; I just play
> a ride specialist on the Internet. 8-)
>
> : Being that the film is 1977, the transfers were most likely done on an
> old
> : school telecine projector system/film chain or perhaps a Magnasync
> telecine
> : (or god forbid, a Videola) to 2-inch tape. Due to the time frame, there
> : would have had to be seperate PAL and NTSC transfers made which also
> might
> : have caused variations.
> :
> : I'm pretty sure that the DVD reissue from a few years back is a 3:2
> : pulldown. And while the color correction is pretty good on the DVD,
> they
> : did introduce more noise reduction than I'm normally happy with.
>
> You know, I could check that out...I do have the DVD at home. I seem to
> recall that it is NOT an anamorphic widescreen print, which disappointed
> me a little. A DVD question: Are not some DVDs simply encoded at 24
> FPS, set up to demand that the player do the pulldown? My video know-how
> is mostly on the production side...
All NTSC DVD's are encoded at 24 fps, and the player adds the 3:2 repeat
frames when a flag is set. See this URL for further details:
http://www.dvdscan.com/progress.htm
> : I still use an Elmo TRV-16 to make basic viewing copies of my materials,
> but
> : I lab everything out eventually for broadcast usage.
>
> I have some old Super-8 stuff and I've been experimenting with doing
> direct transfers, focusing the camera directly on the film frame in the
> gate of the projector, but doing the transfer directly to a QuickTime
> movie (which can run at 18 FPS). Perfect for release to the Web. Then I
> can import the frames into Avid and let it change the frame rate not via
> any kind of pulldown, but through interpolation. So far that has been
> pretty impressive. Really time-consuming, though!
There are limits to software abilites to change frame rates. I took a 24
fps transfer of material originally shot at 16 fps and tried to slow the
frame rate in software, and some really weird artifacting occurred. I have
no trouble taking film that was shot at 18fps, transferred at 20 fps, and
using software to slow back down to 18 fps.
Derek
MiniCooperTx
the big theater.
At the bit where the Rocket crashes, it seemed that many folks (the
older ones) sorta held their breath as the car crashed thru the
railing. When the car hit the ground, flipped over, and squished all
the riders, there was this loud CHEER and lots of applause!!!
Two folks sitting next to me who had never seen the film looked at each
other like WTF???
I explained to them that the inclusion of that bit meant that we were
watching the orig theater version, and not the edited one. Even the VHS
version wasn't as graphic in that scene.
Sadly, a theater version that made the rounds after the first release
was ALSO missing that bit. I spent years wondering if I had perhaps
just imagined that the scene existed, since I had only seen the edited
versions until that day at PKD.
Dave Althoff, Jr.
: >
: > You know, I could check that out...I do have the DVD at home. I seem to
: > recall that it is NOT an anamorphic widescreen print, which disappointed
: > me a little. A DVD question: Are not some DVDs simply encoded at 24
: > FPS, set up to demand that the player do the pulldown? My video know-how
: > is mostly on the production side...
:
: All NTSC DVD's are encoded at 24 fps, and the player adds the 3:2 repeat
: frames when a flag is set. See this URL for further details:
:
: http://www.dvdscan.com/progress.htm
All generalizations are false, Derek. Every DVD I have ever put together
is NTSC and encoded at 29.97 FPS. But your point still stands. 8-)
Coaster Enthusiasts of Canada
: "CoasterLisa" <coast...@isomedia.com> wrote:
: > I have a question that has been on my mind for years now concerning the
: > 1977 movie, Rollercoaster.
: >
: > Throughout the years, I've read that there are at least three, possibly
: > four, different edited versions of this movie.
(Snip)
: Lisa
: Not sure about American broadcasting principles but in the UK films are
: prepared for TV at 25 / 26 frames a second instead of the usual 35mm 24
: frames a second - that may appear to make sequences shorter.
: Just an idea.
*** For Canada and The U.S., video is at 30 frames a second, so 24-frame
film has every sixth frame repeated. (24 frames plus 6 repeats equals
30.)
The editing of which Lisa speaks was likely due to censureship of
violence, or done to fit the film into a shorter time slot.
: By the way the film was also available in certain movie theatres in
: Sensurround - and sounds superb.
:
: Douggie in UK
*** Correct. They used the Cerwin-Vega "Earthquake" cabinets to achieve
the low frequencies at the required sound pressure level. Theaters had to
be modified for the effect.
Richard Bonner
Managing Director:
The Coaster Enthusiasts of Canada
www.CEC.chebucto.org
Douglas Kell
for your info,
A cinema chain in the UK has a portable sensurround system as no permanent
installations exist.
http://www.uk70mm.com/archive/bradquake.html
Douggie in IK
"Coaster Enthusiasts of Canada" <c...@chebucto.ns.ca> wrote in message
news:dmne64$cmg$3...@News.Dal.Ca...
Douglas Kell
Just found this on IMDB.com
a.. Most of the actors portraying police officers in the film were actual
police officers from the surrounding area. In fact, Charles W. Bennett, Jr.,
who played Bomb Squad Man, was an actual bomb technician at the time the
film was made. He is now (1999) the chief of police in Lynchburg, Virginia.
b.. The teen-idol fan magazines Tiger Beat and 16 reported to their
readers in 1976 that the Scottish glam-rock band the Bay City Rollers were
to perform in this film. However, the Rollers never did appear in this (or
any other) theatrical film, and another glam-rock outfit, Sparks, are heard
on the soundtrack instead.
c.. The roller coaster featured in the main climax of the movie is the
Revolution at Six Flags Magic Mountain in Valencia, CA. It opened in 1976
and was the first roller coaster to feature a complete 360-degree vertical
loop.
a.. Some of the amusement park scenes were shot at King's Dominion in
Ashland, Virginia, just north of Richmond. King's Dominion is now owned by
Paramount.
b.. Also partially filmed at Ocean View Park in Virginia (including the
destruction of the rollercoaster) - see also trivia for The Death of Ocean
View Park (1979) (TV).
c.. The rollercoaster crash that kicks off the film was significantly more
graphic in its depiction of flying bodies and gore as the cars derail and
topple over, and the sequence was toned down considerably before the film
was released.
d.. A plaque commemorating where the scene where Timothy Bottoms'
character was killed in the climatic scene of the film still stands at Six
Flags Magic Mountain in Valencia, California.
e.. Is the third film to be presented in "Sensurround", a special
low-frequency bass speaker setup consisting of four huge speakers loaned by
distributors to select theatres showing the film. This system was employed
only during the quake sequences of the film, and was so powerful that it
actually cracked plaster at some movie theaters. "Sensurround" was employed
in only three other films released by Universal: Earthquake (1974), Midway
(1976), and the theatrical release of _Battlestar Galactica (1979)_ .
f.. The filmmakers were originally going to include a scene of the Young
Man (Timothy Bottoms) on the phone with his mother. It was to establish a
motive behind his plot, namely to get the money from larger amusements parks
that were forcing his parents' small family-owned amusement park out of
business. The filmmakers later decided that the movie was more suspenseful
if the motive behind the Young Man's actions were never known, as well as
keeping the audience from sympathizing with the Young Man's situation.
g..
h.. Douggie in UK
Derek Gee
> Derek Gee <dgeeSP...@twmi.invalid.rr.com> wrote:
> : >
> : > You know, I could check that out...I do have the DVD at home. I seem
> to
> : > recall that it is NOT an anamorphic widescreen print, which
> disappointed
> : > me a little. A DVD question: Are not some DVDs simply encoded at 24
> : > FPS, set up to demand that the player do the pulldown? My video
> know-how
> : > is mostly on the production side...
> :
> : All NTSC DVD's are encoded at 24 fps, and the player adds the 3:2 repeat
> : frames when a flag is set. See this URL for further details:
> :
> : http://www.dvdscan.com/progress.htm
>
> All generalizations are false, Derek. Every DVD I have ever put together
> is NTSC and encoded at 29.97 FPS. But your point still stands. 8-)
I was trying to make a very complex subject understandable, but for sound
films - they are transferred at 24 fps as described in the link, stored as
an MPEG2 file, and the player outputs the 29.97 fps signal for your TV.
Transferring silent films are a whole different matter...
Derek
MiniCooperTx
readers in 1976 that the Scottish glam-rock band the Bay City Rollers
were
to perform in this film. However, the Rollers never did appear in this
(or
any other) theatrical film, and another glam-rock outfit, Sparks, are
heard
on the soundtrack instead. "
Sparks were a glam band at that point... they have also been a hard
rock group, a pop group, a synth group, a new wave group, and now are
pushing the limits of experimental pop. Their latest album (yes,
they're still making albums), called "Lil Beethoven" experiments with
using vocals as the rhymic pulse rather than drum loops, then putting
those over lush, richly orchestrated music "performed" by a virtual
orchestra. I'm not a big Sparks fan, but that album is worth checking
out. It's a grand sonic experiment and the lyrics are occasionally
quite funny.
Paul Drabek
wrote:
Yeah but they still play "Big Boy"?
Have Fun
Paul Drabek
Raven...@Negative-g.com
Negative-g: www.Negative-g.com
Read My Blog "It's All Downhill From Here" at www.negative-g.com/downhill/
Proud Poster On Rec.Roller-Coaster Since September 27, 1996
Coaster Enthusiasts of Canada
: Douglas Kell (dougla...@ntlworld.com) wrote:
: : "CoasterLisa" <coast...@isomedia.com> wrote:
: : > I have a question that has been on my mind for years now concerning the
: : > 1977 movie, Rollercoaster.
: : >
: : > Throughout the years, I've read that there are at least three, possibly
: : > four, different edited versions of this movie.
: (Snip)
: : Lisa
: : Not sure about American broadcasting principles but in the UK films are
: : prepared for TV at 25 / 26 frames a second instead of the usual 35mm 24
: : frames a second - that may appear to make sequences shorter.
: : Just an idea.
: *** For Canada and The U.S., video is at 30 frames a second, so 24-frame
: film has every sixth frame repeated. (24 frames plus 6 repeats equals
: 30.)
:
: Richard Bonner
*** Oops, that should have been "every *fourth* frame is repeated".
Also, as mentioned by others here, there are other repeat methods used
to match film to video.
Coaster Enthusiasts of Canada
: > Douglas Kell (dougla...@ntlworld.com) wrote:
: > : By the way the film was also available in certain movie theatres in
: > : Sensurround - and sounds superb.
: > :
: > : Douggie in UK
: >
: > *** Correct. They used the Cerwin-Vega "Earthquake" cabinets to achieve
: > the low frequencies at the required sound pressure level. Theaters had to
: > be modified for the effect.
: >
: > Richard Bonner
: Douglas Kell (dougla...@ntlworld.com) wrote:
: A cinema chain in the UK has a portable sensurround system as no permanent
: installations exist.
: http://www.uk70mm.com/archive/bradquake.html
:
: Douggie in IK
*** Thanks for the link. I haven't seen one of those systems in decades.
I remember a number of local bands here at the time using the "Junior
Earthquake" cabinets, a smaller version designed to be more portable.
Richard Bonner
Managing Director:
The Coaster Enthusiasts of Canada
www.CEC.chebucto.org
PS: Please don't top post.
Thanks.
R.
Coaster Enthusiasts of Canada
: Just found this on IMDB.com
: b.. The teen-idol fan magazines Tiger Beat and 16 reported to their
: readers in 1976 that the Scottish glam-rock band the Bay City Rollers were
: to perform in this film. However, the Rollers never did appear in this (or
: any other) theatrical film, and another glam-rock outfit, Sparks, are heard
: on the soundtrack instead.
*** If it's the same "Sparks" as on the album I have, they were not a
glam-rock band, but instead were an early new wave act with minimal talent
and song-writing ability.
: c.. The roller coaster featured in the main climax of the movie is the
: Revolution at Six Flags Magic Mountain in Valencia, CA. It opened in 1976
: and was the first roller coaster to feature a complete 360-degree vertical
: loop.
:
: Douggie in UK
*** Of course, the last statement is wrong. Looping coasters were around
over 100 years ago.
Coaster Enthusiasts of Canada
: ...for sound
: films - they are transferred at 24 fps as described in the link, stored as
: an MPEG2 file, and the player outputs the 29.97 fps signal for your TV.
: Transferring silent films is a whole different matter...
: Derek
*** Yes, Silent films were typically filmed at anywhere from 18 - 24+
frames per second. To make matters worse, projectionists could vary the
speed for the viewing audience. A typical "15-minute" reel for various
movies might have a suggested projection speed that would have the film
run from a high of 11 minutes to a low of 14. 11 minutes per reel equals a
speed faster than 24 frames per second.
Be aware, too, that some movie houses would run films even faster in
order to get more showings in for a given time period.
To make matters even more worse, some cameramen would crank their
cameras faster or slower depending on the action. Chases were often
cranked at slower speeds to have them run faster during projection.
Douglas Kell
Have not had a chance to look at the entire site but try this link
http://members.aol.com/earthquakemovie/index.html
Douggie in UK
"CoasterLisa" <coast...@isomedia.com> wrote in message
news:1132690919.1...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...