Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
RHF
My 'other' Crazy Idea was to require each 50 KW
Clear Channel AM/MW Radio Station to have a 5 KW
Shortwave Simulcast.
Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/9520
Plus require all 50 KW Clear Channel AM/MW Radio Stations
to carry locally produced 'original' Programming from
5 AM to 10 AM in the Mornings and 7 AM to 12 Midnight
in the Evenings.
A 50 KW Clear Channel Radio Station from Boston should be
"The Voice of New England" and not a Dr. Laura repeat.
A 50 KW Clear Channel Radio Station from New York should
be "The Voice of New York" and not a Sean Hannity repeat.
A 50 KW Clear Channel Radio Station from Atlanta should
be "The Voice of the South" and not a Al Franken repeat.
A 50 KW Clear Channel Radio Station from Miami should be
"The Voice of Hot Miami" and not a Terry Gross repeat.
A 50 KW Clear Channel Radio Station from Chicago should be
"The Voice of Mid-America" and not a Rush Limbaugh repeat.
A 50 KW Clear Channel Radio Station from St Louis should
be "The Voice of St Louis" and not a Phil Hendrie repeat.
A 50 KW Clear Channel Radio Station from New Orleans should
be "The Voice of the Big Easy" and not a Jim Bohannon repeat.
A 50 KW Clear Channel Radio Station from Dallas should
be "The Voice of Texas" and not a Mike Gallagher repeat.
A 50 KW Clear Channel Radio Station from Denver should be
"The Voice of the Rockies" and not a Ken Hamblin repeat.
A 50 KW Clear Channel Radio Station from Phoenix should
be "The Voice of Arizona and the South West" and not a
G. Gordon Liddy repeat.
A 50 KW Clear Channel Radio Station from Seatle should
be "The Voice of the Pacific North West" and not a
Michael Medved repeat.
A 50 KW Clear Channel Radio Station from San Francisco
should be "The Voice of the California" and not a
Michael Savage repeat.
A 50 KW Clear Channel Radio Station from Los Angeles
should be "The Voice of the Hollywood and La-La-Land"
and not a Michael Reagan repeat.
A 50 KW Clear Channel Radio Station from Anchorage should
be "The Voice of Alaska" and not a Randi Rhodes repeat.
A 50 KW Clear Channel Radio Station from Honolulu should
be "The Voice of the Hawaii and the Pacific" and not a
Bruce Williams repeat.
Clear Channel Am/MW Radio Stations -USA-
http://www.ac6v.com/clearam.htm#USA
.
Big Voices on the Air
http://www.nrcdxas.org/articles/Big%20Voices.html
.
ABOUT - The Clear Channel AM/MW Radio Broadcasters :
- by Mark Durenberger
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/2160
.
Part # 1 - Behind the Clear-Channel Matter
http://www.oldradio.com/archives/general/clears.htm
.
Part # 2 - Superpowers Crank It Up
http://www.oldradio.com/archives/general/clears2.htm
.
Part # 3 - The Clear-Channel Matter before NARBA 1941
http://www.oldradio.com/archives/general/clears3.htm
.
Part # 4 - The Clear-Channel Matter after NARBA 1941
http://www.oldradio.com/archives/general/clears4.htm
.
Part # 5 - FCC's Landmark 1961 Report and Order
http://www.oldradio.com/archives/general/clears5.htm
.
Part # 6 - The Path to the Final Breakup of the Clears
http://www.oldradio.com/archives/general/clears6.htm
.
USA Map of the Night Time AM/MW 50 KW Stations
http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/bluenote/706/namrp/amradio.htm
.
AM/MW Clear Channel and 50 KW AM/MW Radio Stations :
.
* Listed by FREQUENCY
http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/bluenote/706/namrp/freq.htm
.
* Listed by CALL SIGN
http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/bluenote/706/namrp/call.htm
.
* Listed by STATE
http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/bluenote/706/namrp/state.htm
.
* Listed by CITY
http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/bluenote/706/namrp/city.htm
.
The Clear Channel Stations in the US Station History
Section of The Broadcast Archive.
http://www.oldradio.com/archives/stations/ccs.htm
.
FCC AM/MW Radio Station Inquiry
[ FCC AM/MW Radio Database Query ]
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/amq.html
.
"Behind the Clear-Channel Matter"
-by- Mark Durenberger
- The History of the Clear Channels -
http://www.nrcdxas.org/articles/clear01.html
http://www.nrcdxas.org/articles/clear02.html
http://www.nrcdxas.org/articles/clear03.html
http://www.nrcdxas.org/articles/clear04.html
http://www.nrcdxas.org/articles/clear05.html
http://www.nrcdxas.org/articles/clear06.html
.
Talk Radio Hosts
http://www.radiotalk.org/hosts.html
.
Major US Cities - Map
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/usa/cities/
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/geography/outlinemaps/usa.shtml
.
.
and that is how i feel about that ~ RHF
.
Shortwave Listener Antennas => http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
SWL Antenna Group => http://tinyurl.com/ogvcf
.
The Shortwave Listener's Blessing :
SWL BLESSING => http://tinyurl.com/s2bjm
May You Never Tire of Listening to the Radio and Always
have Strong Signals and Noise Free Reception ~ RHF {ibid}
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/9233
.
.
. .
- - - In Shortwave-...@yahoogroups.com,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/9518
- - - "Jay Heyl" <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
>
> On 5/14/06, R H F <rhf-mail@...> wrote:
>
> > Soap-Box-Time - A Federal Law allowing each US "State"
> > to have a Co-Located DRM Shortwave Radio Transmitter
> > that would simulcasting their local Public Radio (NPR? /
> > PRI?) content to the whole State would do much for the
> > future of Shortwave Radio and DRM in the USA. For State
> > Wide Coverage a power level of 5 KW to 10 KW would get
> > the job done.
>
> To what purpose? I know I don't want my tax dollars going to fund any
> state-wide broadcast of NPR. And to do it just to promote SW/DRM is a
> waste of money.
>
> I also think you're overestimating the coverage of a single
> transmitter, particularly for the large western states. Even though
> it's digital, it's still SW, subject to the same means of the signal
> reaching the receiver. The groundwave will cover less territory than
> MW, and beyond that it's up to tropospheric bounce to get the signal
> to the receivers. I can't imagine a single transmitter covering all of
> California or Montana or Texas.
>
> I agree the restriction against domestic SW is rather silly,
> especially considering all the religious stations that -- wink, wink
> -- broadcast to destinations somewhere just beyond the other side of
> the continent. It would be interesting if the law was changed to allow
> domestic, commercial SW broadcasts.
>
> -- Jay
>
Somebody Somewhere
NPR? You feel there's not enough communist stations on SW right now?
The BEST idea for 50 kw clear-chanel stations would be to actually give
them a CLEAR channel to operate on, like they had 50 years ago.
David
wrote:
>For One and All,
>
>My 'other' Crazy Idea was to require each 50 KW
>Clear Channel AM/MW Radio Station to have a 5 KW
>Shortwave Simulcast.
>
>Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/9520
>
Phoenix has no real clear channel station. They have one 50 KW (days)
station. They have 3 regional stations with decent signals but the
rest of MW in Phoenix sucks.
You are fucking bonkers.
RHF
Why Thank You DaviD -
Coming from 'you' that is an Expert Opinion !
DaviD - Bonkers I May Be !
But... I Will Leave the Fucking of Bonkers To 'you' - DaviD !
Bonkers ? - Clearly DaviD 'you' Can Handle Bonkers !
bonkers, Bonkers. BONKERS ! ~ RHF
.
.
. .
David Eduardo
"Somebody Somewhere" <YCTH...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1147665208....@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
> RHF wrote:
>> For One and All,
>>
>> My 'other' Crazy Idea was to require each 50 KW
>> Clear Channel AM/MW Radio Station to have a 5 KW
>> Shortwave Simulcast.
>>
>> Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/9520
>>
>> Plus require all 50 KW Clear Channel AM/MW Radio Stations
>> to carry locally produced 'original' Programming from
>> 5 AM to 10 AM in the Mornings and 7 AM to 12 Midnight
>> in the Evenings.
>>
>> A 50 KW Clear Channel Radio Station from Boston should be
>> "The Voice of New England" and not a Dr. Laura repeat.
Are you nuts?
The clear channel stations (Clear Channel, with caps, is a company) are
local stations in all but hours of darkness. In other words, they simply use
the 50 kw to get a solid signal over their metro area and a bit of
surrounding territory, but they are not daytime monsters.
At night, nearly nobody listens to AM radio. Maybe 2% of the population. So
the times when a clear gets some additional coverage, there is nobody
listening. It is hard to even give away 7 to midnight ad time.
Radio is a local medium. There is no gain from having audience outside the
metro at all. Each station sells its local broadcasts to local advertisers
or national ones buying on a market by market basis. 60% of all 12+ US
population is in the top 50 metro areas, so there is not much interest in
anything else.
And what frequencies would you put the SW broadcasts on? Although there are
a lot fewer SW station on the longer wavebands, there is still a lot of
interference... and 5 kw is not much, unless you propose using the tropical
band.
David Eduardo
"RHF" <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:1147706087.5...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> DaviD says I am - "You are fucking bonkers."
>
> Why Thank You DaviD -
> Coming from 'you' that is an Expert Opinion !
>
On this particular subject, David's analysis is probably correct.
Stephanie Weil
National full-service coverage?
I believe each city should be limited to maximum six or eight MW
stations.
Two high powered 50 kilowatt stations, the rest would be 10,000 or
lower local/regional channels.
In addition, the LW band and the "Tropical" part of the SW band should
be pressed into service for one or two 500,000 watt national coverage
broadcasters - government sponsored (NPR?)
Want specialist programming? That's what FM is for.
--
Stephanie Weil
New York City, NY
David Eduardo
"Stephanie Weil" <stepha...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147710640.6...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Wasn't this supposed to be the idea behind the high-powered stations?
>
> National full-service coverage?
Theat was the idea, back in the 30's. Of course, that was pre-TV. Then, the
bulk of radio listening was in the home at night.
Today, the bulk of listening is in the car or at work (two thirds of all
listening) and in the daytime. Night listening is one third of daytime
levels (7 to midnight) and AM night listening is very limited.
>
> I believe each city should be limited to maximum six or eight MW
> stations.
The model in the US has always been based on whatever would work tecnically.
Unfortunately, between a half and two-thirds of metro area AMs are
inadequate to cover the market they serve, as they were either designed in
the 30's or 40's before urban sprawl, or they are daytimers or showehorned
in directional monsters.
There are some markets, like Washington, DC, that do not have a single full
market coverage AM.
>
> Two high powered 50 kilowatt stations, the rest would be 10,000 or
> lower local/regional channels.
In many markets, 10 kw is not enough to cover the market without being
trashed by manmade noise. Also, the relationship has to considder that low
band AMs cover much better than high band... a 5 kw on 550 outcovers vastly
a 50 kw on 1500.
>
> In addition, the LW band and the "Tropical" part of the SW band should
> be pressed into service for one or two 500,000 watt national coverage
> broadcasters - government sponsored (NPR?)
Nobody would put up with the fading and static and interference on a
national Am today. This is not the 30's. And younger, under 35 listeners,
have no use fo rhte sound quality of the AM band.
Telamon
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
< Snip >
> In many markets, 10 kw is not enough to cover the market without being
> trashed by manmade noise. Also, the relationship has to considder that low
> band AMs cover much better than high band... a 5 kw on 550 outcovers vastly
> a 50 kw on 1500.
< Snip >
You are referring to daytime reception only?
Considering daytime ground wave propagation, is the difference in
coverage low to high band due to ground conductivity where the high end
of the band has more loss per mile?
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
David Eduardo
"Telamon" <telamon_s...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-6...@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <kA2ag.17079$Lm5....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>,
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>
> < Snip >
>
>> In many markets, 10 kw is not enough to cover the market without being
>> trashed by manmade noise. Also, the relationship has to considder that
>> low
>> band AMs cover much better than high band... a 5 kw on 550 outcovers
>> vastly
>> a 50 kw on 1500.
>
> < Snip >
>
> You are referring to daytime reception only?
Yes. In the US, there are so few stations that have any extended night
coverage as to make the point moot for all but maybe 30 or 40 stations in
the whole nation that can get usable skywave coverage. In any event, night
AM listening is so low that it is irrelevanat, irrespective of coverage.
>
> Considering daytime ground wave propagation, is the difference in
> coverage low to high band due to ground conductivity where the high end
> of the band has more loss per mile?
Given the same transmitter site, and same radiation efficiency, the
difference is that medium wave signals propagate better watt for watt on the
lower frequencies. Ground conductivity decreases as a function of frequency.
This is why the old adage that 1 kw on 1540 covers better than 50 kw on 1600
is nearly true.
Kevin Alfred Strom
> For One and All,
>
> My 'other' Crazy Idea was to require each 50 KW
> Clear Channel AM/MW Radio Station to have a 5 KW
> Shortwave Simulcast.
>
> Every 50 KW Clear Channel In The USA With A Difference
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/9520
>
[...]
Why give such valuable spectrum to the billionaire corporations who
already have things locked up on all the other bands?
Better for shortwave listeners, I think, would be to allow
minimally-regulated low-power broadcasting on a band which is
virtually empty during the daylight hours but which would allow
coverage of several hundred miles with 1 kilowatt or less: 49
meters. The US could be divided into four geographic zones, perhaps
approximating the time zones, and in each zone there would be room
for 45 or so 10-kHz-spaced AM stations. Stations in adjacent zones
would be offset 5 kHz from each other to minimize interference.
(Eastern zone stations would be on, say, 5900, 5910, 5920, et
cetera; while Midwest zone stations would be on 5905, 5915, 5925 and
so on.)
This would allow about 180 stations nationwide. If Alaska and Hawaii
were considered their own zones, it would allow 270.
Stations would have to restrict broadcasting time to daylight hours,
perhaps even keeping an hour or two away from local sunrise and
sunset times, to avoid interfering with existing international
broadcasters. Frequencies used by Canadian daytime 49 meter stations
could be protected. And no corporation, or any person having an
interest in any other broadcast property, could own such a station
-- individual small operators only.
With all good wishes,
--
Kevin Alfred Strom.
News: http://www.nationalvanguard.org/
The Works of R. P. Oliver: http://www.revilo-oliver.com
Personal site: http://www.kevin-strom.com
David
Nerds serving nerds. How exciting.
Somebody Somewhere
I assume you meant 540, not 1540.
I think it would be cool to have long wave (LW) broadcasters in the
USA. Ten 2 megawatt stations, on 10 frequencies, evenly spaced across
the country would cover the entire lower 48 day and night. It won't
happen, of course, because nobody owns radios that cover LW besides
radio nerds like us.
David Eduardo
Yep. thanks for spotting this.
>
> I think it would be cool to have long wave (LW) broadcasters in the
> USA. Ten 2 megawatt stations, on 10 frequencies, evenly spaced across
> the country would cover the entire lower 48 day and night. It won't
> happen, of course, because nobody owns radios that cover LW besides
> radio nerds like us.
Unfortunately, nobody but the over 40 crowd will put up with AM quality, and
it would be a losing proposition from the start.
RHF
"In addition, the LW band and the "Tropical" part of the SW band should
be pressed into service for one or two 500,000 watt national coverage
broadcasters - government sponsored (NPR?) "
i like that idea ~ RHF
.
.
. .
RHF
"I think it would be cool to have long wave (LW) broadcasters
in the USA. Ten 2 megawatt stations, on 10 frequencies,
evenly spaced across the country would cover the entire
lower 48 day and night."
i like that idea ~ RHF
.
.
. .
RHF
.
.
. .
RHF
.
.
. .
David
wrote:
That's absurd. A satellite covers the whole country and uses way less
energy.
Brenda Ann
"David" <ric...@knac.com> wrote in message
news:75kp62lc2r6u7vmuq...@4ax.com...
Yes, and a satellite also requires a directional antenna and special
receiver (and a subscription). Putting LW into standard radios would cost
almost nothing, and add little to the cost of a portable radio.
Telamon
"Brenda Ann" <bre...@shinbiro.com> wrote:
How much energy did it take to put the satellite into orbit?
How much power is used in the uplink effort?
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
David
There are a wide variety of satellites and not all require a
subscription.
David
<telamon_s...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
>
>How much energy did it take to put the satellite into orbit?
>How much power is used in the uplink effort?
That's like saying how much energy was required to build a power
plant.
Most TWTAs run a few hundred Watts.
David Eduardo
> SW,
>
> "In addition, the LW band and the "Tropical" part of the SW band should
>
> be pressed into service for one or two 500,000 watt national coverage
> broadcasters - government sponsored (NPR?) "
Americans increasingly will not listen to even local AM-quality radio. they
certainly would not listen to fady, erratic SW.
David Eduardo
"Brenda Ann" <bre...@shinbiro.com> wrote in message
news:e4j286$6fa$1...@news2.kornet.net...
And nobody would listen. It's AM analog. It's a digital world.
Brenda Ann
"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
news:TLabg.78465$H71....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Glad you have a good grasp on your tiny little world Eduardo.. but a lot of
the rest of us belong to a great big world with a lot of other choices
besides the ones that the NAB wants to cram down our throats. I don't
personally know ANYBODY outside of broadcasting that want's to put up with
IBOC, and I know several BE's (and I am one of them) that consider it
nothing but a QRM generator, and a major PITA to work with. Not to mention
that anyone outside a few mile radius from the transmitter can't hear the
digital signal to start with. This is proven by anecdotal evidence of
numerous people who have purchased the $300 BA (down from $500) and
attempted to use it in their local signal areas.
Tell me something, Eduardo.. are people going to put up big outside
antennas, or random wire AM antennas, just to hear a crappy digital signal
full of artifacts? I don't think so. The majority of listeners now are using
boom box radios and don't bother to even put the antenna up on them most of
the time. I'm pretty sure they're not going to spend big $$$ on a piece of
shit radio, then have to put up antennas to use it. Ain't gonna happen. I
suppose you think that you're going to hear the sound of half a billion (or
more) analog radios hitting the trash can? I think it much more likely that
will be a few hundred IBOC transmitters hitting the landfill.
Eric F. Richards
>
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
> news:TLabg.78465$H71....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "RHF" <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> > news:1147968638.9...@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> SW,
> >>
> >> "In addition, the LW band and the "Tropical" part of the SW band should
> >>
> >> be pressed into service for one or two 500,000 watt national coverage
> >> broadcasters - government sponsored (NPR?) "
> >
> > Americans increasingly will not listen to even local AM-quality radio.
> > they certainly would not listen to fady, erratic SW.
>
> Glad you have a good grasp on your tiny little world Eduardo.. but a lot of
> the rest of us belong to a great big world with a lot of other choices
> besides the ones that the NAB wants to cram down our throats. [...]
Brenda Ann,
You've shown yourself to be one of the true voices of sanity on this
newsgroup, and I do respect your viewpoints on various issues.
However, I speak from personal experience when I say that arguing with
Eduardo (and his cheerleading section) is about as effective as
teaching a horse to sing.
We, the radio listening public, are just going to have to wait for the
decline of radio brought on by the likes of Eduardo to get serious
enough that the bean-counters actually notice the downward trend. I
haven't listened to commercial radio in years -- not without trying,
mind you, but it is just boring and bland beyond hope.
Arbitron will never figure it out, too. After the brilliance of
Arbitron was pointed out to me (again and again and again), I finally
got asked to participate in one of their surveys. Well, actually, my
computer was asked. They just picked random phone number digits and
came up with my computer modem line, and weren't actually interested
in talking to the owner of that modem when I contacted them about
participating in the survey. Well, our local water system's data
line was also asked to participate, too.
I hate to admit it, but radio as we've known it is finally dying. The
bean counters won, radio lost.
--
Eric F. Richards, efr...@dim.com
"It’s easy to fall into the trap of thinking that the purpose of a
business is to make money. But the real purpose of a business is to
create value. While it’s possible to make money in the short run
without creating much value, in the long run it’s unsustainable.
Even criminal organizations have to create value for someone."
- Steve Pavlina, April 10, 2006
David
<bre...@shinbiro.com> wrote:
>
>"David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
>news:TLabg.78465$H71....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> "RHF" <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>> news:1147968638.9...@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>> SW,
>>>
>>> "In addition, the LW band and the "Tropical" part of the SW band should
>>>
>>> be pressed into service for one or two 500,000 watt national coverage
>>> broadcasters - government sponsored (NPR?) "
>>
>> Americans increasingly will not listen to even local AM-quality radio.
>> they certainly would not listen to fady, erratic SW.
>
>Glad you have a good grasp on your tiny little world Eduardo.. but a lot of
>the rest of us belong to a great big world with a lot of other choices
>besides the ones that the NAB wants to cram down our throats. I don't
>personally know ANYBODY outside of broadcasting that want's to put up with
>IBOC, and I know several BE's (and I am one of them) that consider it
>nothing but a QRM generator, and a major PITA to work with. Not to mention
>that anyone outside a few mile radius from the transmitter can't hear the
>digital signal to start with. This is proven by anecdotal evidence of
>numerous people who have purchased the $300 BA (down from $500) and
>attempted to use it in their local signal areas.
>
>
>
>
That's simply not true. I get several stations from Mt. Wilson in
pristine digital that are unlistenable in FM Stereo.
Jim Hackett
and well, to me...
"Eric F. Richards" <efr...@dim.com> wrote in message
news:2a7r62dlqh1s3ko3j...@4ax.com...
Brenda Ann
Good for you. That makes one person out of hundreds that I know.
cuh...@webtv.net
Dont cuss,call Gus and he will cuss for all of us.
cuhulin
cuh...@webtv.net
cuh...@webtv.net
Jackson,Mississippi area.I guess they have a pretty good listening
audience,elsewise,they wouldn't still be floatin around on the airwaves.
www.google.com AM Radio Stations Jackson Mississippi
cuhulin
David
I'm sure it's very common in urban and natural canyons. Many places
with severe multipath issues will benefit from the HD.
Sure, the demise of DXing is sad, but we don't have hitching posts on
Main Street nowadays either. Time marches on.
cuh...@webtv.net
And why do you think so many Americans are so interested in DXing for AM
Radio Stations all over America?
cuhulin
dxAce
David wrote:
Rickets, you wouldn't know DXing if it crawled its way past your haemorrhoids
and decided to spend the winter up your ass.
dxAce
Michigan
USA
cuh...@webtv.net
In all dew drop in respect,Mr.Eduardo.
cuhulin
RM MS
money, yeah, ut I don't think George would be too happy with what he
would hear there on any given day. And the programs are a lot of crap
anyway. If you want to ear some real good radio, listen to CBC anytime
before the year 2000.
Michael A. Terrell
The actual uplink is usually in the 10 to 25 watt region for video,
and it would take less for a narrow audio only signal. An all solid
state microwave transmitter would only consume a few hundred watts. The
studio equipment would use more energy than the uplink. BTW, i have
been trying to track down the owner of an abandoned C-band video
confrencing earth station that was built by Microdyne. I want the
equipment because the system is serial number one, and the only uplink
they ever built.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
David
What's the point if every station on late at night is playing the same
thing?
Eric F. Richards
> What planet are you referring to? Here on Earth, shortwave seems to be alive
> and well, to me...
>
>
Except BBC has stopped targeting N/A... as have several others... RCI
is largely domestic programs... Media Network is long gone... The
Happy Station is a long gone memory, and so on.
But never mind that -- I was talking about *domestic* radio, as were
Brenda Ann and Eduardo.
Jim Hackett
"Eric F. Richards" <efr...@dim.com> wrote in message
news:sa5s621uo06m0m3qm...@4ax.com...
Telamon
I figured a few hundred watts for uplink power of the final PA but as
you mention there are facilities that need to be supported along with
the uplink dish. People are often surprised at how much power is
consumed by support facilities for the electronics, lights and air
conditioning. I have managed facilities that consume 100 KW and did not
transmit any signal, just lights, electronic equipment, air
conditioning, and heating.
People tend to forget the cost of putting the satellite into orbit.
This is a cost that can not be ignored either.
I don't know where you go looking for C band uplink equipment.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Steve
don't just float up into orbit all by themselves.
Steve
Talk about a stillborn technology.
Short Circuit
news:12370-446...@storefull-3253.bay.webtv.net:
> Dont choo cuss on this here Radio.
> Dont cuss,call Gus and he will cuss for all of us.
> cuhulin
That's Boe Guss.
Heee Heee Heeeeeeee!!
sc
Radio Buff
news:telamon_spamshield-5...@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com:
> In article <e4j286$6fa$1...@news2.kornet.net>,
> "Brenda Ann" <bre...@shinbiro.com> wrote:
>
>> "David" <ric...@knac.com> wrote in message
>> news:75kp62lc2r6u7vmuq...@4ax.com...
>> > On 18 May 2006 09:16:29 -0700, "RHF" <rhf-new...@pacbell.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>SbSw,
>> >>
>> >>"I think it would be cool to have long wave (LW) broadcasters
>> >>in the USA. Ten 2 megawatt stations, on 10 frequencies,
>> >>evenly spaced across the country would cover the entire
>> >>lower 48 day and night."
>> >>
>> >>i like that idea ~ RHF
>> >> .
>> > That's absurd. A satellite covers the whole country and uses way
>> > less energy.
>>
>>
>> Yes, and a satellite also requires a directional antenna and special
>> receiver (and a subscription). Putting LW into standard radios would
>> cost almost nothing, and add little to the cost of a portable radio.
>
> How much energy did it take to put the satellite into orbit?
> How much power is used in the uplink effort?
How much energy did it take to make your plastic shortwave?
sc
David
Uplinks are in the kiloWatts TPO.
David
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> The actual uplink is usually in the 10 to 25 watt region for video,
>and it would take less for a narrow audio only signal. An all solid
>state microwave transmitter would only consume a few hundred watts. The
>studio equipment would use more energy than the uplink. BTW, i have
>been trying to track down the owner of an abandoned C-band video
>confrencing earth station that was built by Microdyne. I want the
>equipment because the system is serial number one, and the only uplink
>they ever built.
RHF
On that we can agree 101 re-broadcasts
of Coast-to-Coast AM is not entertainment
that will cause Late Night Radio Listeners
to Tune-the-Dial to find something of interest.
Require all 50 KW Clear Channel AM/MW Radio Stations
to carry locally produced 'original' Programming from
5 AM to 10 AM in the Mornings and 7 AM to 12 Midnight
in the Evenings.
~ RHF
.
.
. .
cuh...@webtv.net
I saw an eyeball peekin through a smokyyy cloud behind the Green
Doorrrr,,,,,,,
Point is,Hallejuah,at around that time O' night,I am usually getting my
beauty sleep and I don't listen to them Kooks and Nutjobs on the air.
http://mediamatrix.org/x.htm (Art Bell)
I don't knowwww whattt they are doinnnn,,,, but they laugh a lot behind
the Green Doorrrr,,,,,,,
Green Door!
cuhulin
David Eduardo
"Brenda Ann" <bre...@shinbiro.com> wrote in message
news:e4jp27$f76$1...@news2.kornet.net...
>
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
> news:TLabg.78465$H71....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> "RHF" <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>> news:1147968638.9...@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>> SW,
>>>
>>> "In addition, the LW band and the "Tropical" part of the SW band should
>>>
>>> be pressed into service for one or two 500,000 watt national coverage
>>> broadcasters - government sponsored (NPR?) "
>>
>> Americans increasingly will not listen to even local AM-quality radio.
>> they certainly would not listen to fady, erratic SW.
>
> Glad you have a good grasp on your tiny little world Eduardo.. but a lot
> of the rest of us belong to a great big world with a lot of other choices
> personally know ANYBODY outside of broadcasting that want's to put up with
> IBOC, and I know several BE's (and I am one of them) that consider it
> nothing but a QRM generator, and a major PITA to work with.
The first HD gear was cantankerous. It is now much better as the hardware
and software matures. Our 30 some stations are running with very few
glitches.
> Not to mention that anyone outside a few mile radius from the transmitter
> can't hear the digital signal to start with.
On AM in LA, the digital signal extends BEYOND the usable anlog signal. On
FM, it extends beyond the 64 dbu coontour, which is where there is almost an
iron wall beyond which listeners will not listen to a station.
> This is proven by anecdotal evidence of numerous people who have purchased
> the $300 BA (down from $500) and attempted to use it in their local signal
> areas.
All the currently available receivers have the first design spec release
circuits. The BA is just a bad implementation. The second generation, now
arriving from China and taiwan, is much more robust.
>
> Tell me something, Eduardo.. are people going to put up big outside
> antennas, or random wire AM antennas, just to hear a crappy digital signal
> full of artifacts?
They do not need to. And the signal sounds absolutely beautiful. Those of us
with radios in our offices will not switch back to the analog version of our
formats.
> I don't think so. The majority of listeners now are using boom box radios
> and don't bother to even put the antenna up on them most of the time. I'm
> pretty sure they're not going to spend big $$$ on a piece of shit radio,
> then have to put up antennas to use it. Ain't gonna happen. I suppose you
> think that you're going to hear the sound of half a billion (or more)
> analog radios hitting the trash can? I think it much more likely that
> will be a few hundred IBOC transmitters hitting the landfill.
The rollout is barely starting this month. And only in bigger markets. And
the receivers are coming, and they sound great. Certainly better than some
Tropical band analog kluge that will fade, be staticy in the summer, and be
listened to by nobody.
David Eduardo
"Eric F. Richards" <efr...@dim.com> wrote in message
news:2a7r62dlqh1s3ko3j...@4ax.com...
> "Brenda Ann" <bre...@shinbiro.com> wrote:
>
> Arbitron will never figure it out, too. After the brilliance of
> Arbitron was pointed out to me (again and again and again), I finally
> got asked to participate in one of their surveys. Well, actually, my
> computer was asked. They just picked random phone number digits and
> came up with my computer modem line, and weren't actually interested
> in talking to the owner of that modem when I contacted them about
> participating in the survey.
Arbitron uses a percentage of RDD calls (Random Digit Dialing) to know
prefixes. This is to pick up unlisted phones in proportion with their
presence in each metro. Some will be inactive. Some will not answer. Some
will be faxes. So they perform enough calls to get the proper quota of
unlisted numbers to get market proportionality.
Your modem call proves that they are trying to do this and doing it
effectively. The fact they would not accept a callback shows they are
conforming to the terms of the MRC certification, which is to not accept
call-in participation.
Since nobody answered the modem, you were NOT contacted. Your phone line was
attempted, and discarded when it did not have a human on the other end.
David Eduardo
>>
>>
> That's simply not true. I get several stations from Mt. Wilson in
> pristine digital that are unlistenable in FM Stereo.
>
that is the experience of every HD station in LA.
David Eduardo
>> pristine digital that are unlistenable in FM Stereo.
>>
>
> Good for you. That makes one person out of hundreds that I know.
Add to that every broadcast engineer in LA that _I_ know. And there are some
awfully good ones here. The HD signal on FM extends in usable form beyond
the 64 dbu contour, extending the listenable range of stations. And on AM,
it vastly outcovers the usable noise free signal for analog (which is
somewhere between 10 mv/m and 15 mv/m in LA.
David Eduardo
<cuh...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:12369-446...@storefull-3253.bay.webtv.net...
There are 13 AMs in the Jackson market. In revenues, the biggest is not even
in the top 10, and bills less than $700,000 (The biggest FM bills nearly $5
million) Altogether, the 13 AMs do not bill as much as the #1 FM.
David Eduardo
<cuh...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:12371-44...@storefull-3253.bay.webtv.net...
> Mr.Eduardo,do a search for AM Radio Stations in America.
> And why do you think so many Americans are so interested in DXing for AM
> Radio Stations all over America?
Actually, very few DXers are around any more. The largest DX club has only
about 600 members now.
cuh...@webtv.net
Phillipines with that young twenty year old woman he got hitched up
with.(she found herself a sugar daddy) She will probally throw his back
out of wack again :{)
cuhulin
Brenda Ann
Not everyone belongs to a club.. in fact I would guess that the number of
actual DX'ers that belong to clubs versus the ones that don't is an
infinitessimal percentage. Most simply enjoy the hobby/activity and don't
want to pay dues to join a club. I personally know 10's of dozens of such
people, and my circle of friends includes a lot more than engineer types and
hardcore hobbyists. I don't know a single person that has had your
experience with IBOC, and a lot that have had the opposite experience.
Portland IBOC can interfere quite well with adjacent signals (AM), but
cannot be heard in the outlying areas that normally get very good reception.
Several of the Portland stations (both AM and FM) have long been popular
daily listens as far south as Salem, as far north as Longview/Kelso and as
far west as Seaside, Tillamook and Astoria. To the east is a big problem due
to topography. The AM IBOC signal can't even be heard without an external
antenna as far as Beaverton or Troutdale, which are both part of the primary
coverage (market) area.
cuh...@webtv.net
Popular Mechanics www.popularmechanics.com magazine,I do read and
I highly respect,at least that Nutjob does respect fine Automobiles and
stuff) and Letterman on Radio tv.
cuhulin
cuh...@webtv.net
either.England!,and I am Scotch Irish by Ancestry.What does that tell
y'all what I! think about England!? Celtic Fest Mississippi will be
rolling around (as usual) in Jackson this September,and of course,I will
be there,as usual. www.celticfestms.org
cuhulin
Michael A. Terrell
WACX TV in Orange City Fl. has a 500 KW Onan diesel generator to
power their 195 KW transmitter, the control room, air conditioning and
tower lights in case of an emergency.
> People tend to forget the cost of putting the satellite into orbit.
> This is a cost that can not be ignored either.
>
> I don't know where you go looking for C band uplink equipment.
>
> --
> Telamon
> Ventura, California
When I worked in CATV back in the mid '80s the line was, "A 20 Watt
TWT is worth $1,000 on the ground, and $1,000,000 in orbit". The Sat
owner would auction off the useful life of each of the 24 transponders
for about $1,000,000, depending on the type of bird, the shape of each
antenna, and its orbital parking spot. Most had two to six spare TWTs
that could be switched in when one of the 24 original TWTs failed, or
got too weak to use. The output power of each transponder was
controlled by the uplink power levels. The signals were uplinked in the
6 GHZ region, mixed against the onboard L.O. and retransmitted in the 4
GHZ region.
This is an abandoned facility a couple miles from here, and I want
the equipment to add to my collection of unique equipment built by my
former employer (Microdyne). How often do you get a chance to collect
something with serial number 1? Also, it is the earth station that was
used by Captain Midnight to jam HBO over 20 years ago, so its a piece of
history.
David Eduardo
>
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
> news:%Nubg.74236$F_3....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>>
>> <cuh...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>> news:12371-44...@storefull-3253.bay.webtv.net...
>>> Mr.Eduardo,do a search for AM Radio Stations in America.
>>> And why do you think so many Americans are so interested in DXing for AM
>>> Radio Stations all over America?
>>
>> Actually, very few DXers are around any more. The largest DX club has
>> only about 600 members now.
>>
>
> Not everyone belongs to a club.. in fact I would guess that the number of
> actual DX'ers that belong to clubs versus the ones that don't is an
> infinitessimal percentage. Most simply enjoy the hobby/activity and don't
> want to pay dues to join a club. I personally know 10's of dozens of such
> people, and my circle of friends includes a lot more than engineer types
> and hardcore hobbyists. I don't know a single person that has had your
> experience with IBOC, and a lot that have had the opposite experience.
In every market, we have had good HD experiences on AM and FM... NY, Miami,
Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Phoenix, LA, San Diego, San Francisco, etc. All
our engineers like it, and love the sound.
> Portland IBOC can interfere quite well with adjacent signals (AM), but
> cannot be heard in the outlying areas that normally get very good
> reception.
The HD signal exceeds the USABLE Am and FM coutours in every case... unless
you are using the Boston Acoustics Receptor, which is a bad HD radio.
> Several of the Portland stations (both AM and FM) have long been popular
> daily listens as far south as Salem, as far north as Longview/Kelso and as
> far west as Seaside, Tillamook and Astoria. To the east is a big problem
> due to topography. The AM IBOC signal can't even be heard without an
> external antenna as far as Beaverton or Troutdale, which are both part of
> the primary coverage (market) area.
There are only a couple of receivers out, none with the second generation
design specs. The first generation was a premble. It was not until this
month that the HD consortium began promoting HD, and the new receivers will
be in places like Radio Shack, Best Buy and Circuit City in the next 90 days
in stage three of the rollout (one was to put HD on enough major market
stations, two was to get programming on HD-2 channels, and three is to start
promoting to consumers). .
>
>
>
Brenda Ann
They can market them all they want. I don't know anyone personally that will
buy one. They're just not willing to spend the sort of money to replace
something that's been working just fine for them. And I doubt seriously that
much of the general populus will want to replace the 5-10 analog radios they
already have just for a joke of a digital signal. You keep talking about the
contours.. well, those may look good on paper, they don't work in real life
situations. You'll learn that when people start tuning out of your stations
en-masse. I know that personally, I will never spend the money on IBOC
receiving equipment. I won't spend a cent to replace something that has
always worked with something of questionable value in general and no value
whatsoever to me. IBOC interferes with adjacent channel stations. This is
just poor engineering, and something that would never have been allowed in
the days when the FCC was composed of engineers instead of greedy
politicians. I was just talking to a friend of mine on the Oregon coast who
has been listening regularly to KONA in the tri-cities on 610 for decades.
He can no longer listen to it because KPOJ 620 in Portland turned on their
IBOC and is splattering 15KHz either side of their carrier. You can do your
best to talk up this boondoggle, but most of us see it for what it is.. just
another way for the NAB to screw the little guy, including the listeners. I
think you'll find that rather than buy expensive new radios, that listeners
will just turn off their radios and go to other entertainment modes.. this
is already largely the case with Ipods, portable CD and MD players, etc.
Most young people don't even own a radio anymore, it's too easy for them to
get the music they want, load it onto a personal portable device, and hear
what they want, when they want, without incessant DJ patter and endless
advertisements.
Brenda Ann
>> Miami, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Phoenix, LA, San Diego, San Francisco,
>> etc. All our engineers like it, and love the sound.
I call BS. I have personal reports that AM IBOC cannot be heard in downtown
Manhattan on a display radio.
Our (AFN) engineers say their crap sounds great, too. Yet the AM is full of
drops (not dropouts, the equipment actually shuts down for a half second
every minute or so), it is also overmodulated, clipped and overcompressed.
They also only feed one half a stereo feed into it, which makes it
interesting to listen to. The FM in many plants is either out of phase
(stereo mpx), shrill, or severely over or under modulated.
I'm a former broadcast engineer myself. I would be ashamed to claim I was
anywhere near any of these AFN sites. Me internet radio station sounds
better than any of them but their FM flagship, and it's only a 56K stereo
stream, I don't EXPECT it to sound like a good broadcast station.
Eric F. Richards
> Since nobody answered the modem, you were NOT contacted. Your phone line was
> attempted, and discarded when it did not have a human on the other end.
>
Actually I was contacted -- by mail. Got the dollar bill and
everything. But when I told them it wasn't my primary phone number
they lost interest.
They also sent the dollar bill and contact information to the water
system's billing address. The water association got a big laugh over
it.
Don't tell me I wasn't contacted when I was. Once again it shows you
to be in a bubble of unreality.
Steve
in order for this claim to be true. Otherwise it is patently false.
Steve
David Eduardo wrote:
>
> In every market, we have had good HD experiences on AM and FM... NY, Miami,
> Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Phoenix, LA, San Diego, San Francisco, etc. All
> our engineers like it, and love the sound.
I'm glad your engineers are happy, but I suspect your advertisers are
aiming at a slightly larger listening audience.
>
>
> The HD signal exceeds the USABLE Am and FM coutours in every case... unless
> you are using the Boston Acoustics Receptor, which is a bad HD radio.
Unless you have unreasonably high standards for what counts as
'usable', this is simply false.
Mark Zenier
David <ric...@knac.com> wrote:
>That's simply not true. I get several stations from Mt. Wilson in
>pristine digital that are unlistenable in FM Stereo.
VHF or Medium Wave?
IBOC on .54-1.705 MHz just doesn't make sense, technically.
Mark Zenier mze...@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)
David
wrote:
http://www.well.com/~dmsml/wilson.html
I agree. DRM would be better. But Eureka 147 15 years ago would've
been better, too.
cuh...@webtv.net
her couch.I just now broke wind and she hit the floor,barkin at me.
cuhulin
clifto
> Telamon <telamon_s...@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote:
>> How much energy did it take to put the satellite into orbit?
>> How much power is used in the uplink effort?
>
> How much energy did it take to make your plastic shortwave?
Probably about 0.00003 seconds worth of rocket burn.
--
Britney Spears' Guide to Semiconductor Physics
<http://britneyspears.ac/lasers.htm>
clifto
> "Eric F. Richards" <efr...@dim.com> wrote...
>> Arbitron will never figure it out, too.
>
> prefixes. This is to pick up unlisted phones in proportion with their
> presence in each metro. Some will be inactive. Some will not answer. Some
> will be faxes. So they perform enough calls to get the proper quota of
> unlisted numbers to get market proportionality.
It doesn't matter that the comedian expected to get the pie in his face,
it's still funny to watch it happen.
clifto
> They can market them all they want. I don't know anyone personally that will
> buy one.
I'd buy one for $10 if it had a usable line out I could feed my stereo gear.
Much more than that, and it's just not worth it to hear talk radio or
Spanish music.
David Eduardo
>
> They can market them all they want. I don't know anyone personally that
> will buy one.
I would not expect you would. Niether do I.. The consumer martketing just
began this monthy. It's in a very early phase.
>> They're just not willing to spend the sort of money to replace
> something that's been working just fine for them.
What sort of money? You obviously don't know the price points of the next
wave of receivers.
> And I doubt seriously that much of the general populus will want to
> replace the 5-10 analog radios they already have just for a joke of a
> digital signal.
A signal which sounds better, doubles the FM station count, and gives AM
decent quality. And it's "digital" which means a lot to the consumer.
>You keep talking about the contours.. well, those may look good on paper,
>they don't work in real life situations.
That's amusing. We have two dozen of these on the air already, and in every
case, the usable contour is greater for HD than for analog. The biggest
benefit is to major market AMs where the ambient noise level means coverage
is very limited. For FMs, we are finding a usable HD signal that goes beyond
the 64 dbu, which is where almost all rated listening stops on analog. And
rated listeners are all we care about, as that is how we make money. And
that is the way it has been of 80 years or so.
>You'll learn that when people start tuning out of your stations en-masse.
Funny, but nearly all our stations were up in Winter, including the HD
enabled ones. Addin HD does not affect the ratings of the analog signal. It
just expands th epotential for the future.
> I know that personally, I will never spend the money on IBOC receiving
> equipment.
Since you don't even know how much it will cost in the next 18 months, that
is a ludicrous statement.
> I won't spend a cent to replace something that has always worked with
> something of questionable value in general and no value whatsoever to me.
Most people will feel that having twice the FM "stations" is well worht it.
One time cost, tangible gain.
> IBOC interferes with adjacent channel stations. This is just poor
> engineering, and something that would never have been allowed in the days
> when the FCC was composed of engineers instead of greedy politicians.
Since there is scan evidence that the adjacents are being listened to in the
areas where the interference happens, this is irrelevant.
> I was just talking to a friend of mine on the Oregon coast who has been
> listening regularly to KONA in the tri-cities on 610 for decades. He can
> no longer listen to it because KPOJ 620 in Portland turned on their IBOC
> and is splattering 15KHz either side of their carrier. You can do your
> best to talk up this boondoggle, but most of us see it for what it is..
> just another way for the NAB to screw the little guy, including the
> listeners.
Actually, this was not an NAB project. The promotion of it is not NAB. The
engineering was not NAB. A bunch of group owners decided that radio had to
move into the digital domain, and financed iBiquity's early stock offerings.
Some of the early adopters are small, like UnoRadio Group, a Puerto Rican
company that is owned by a lifetime engineer who believes this is the best
hope of radio for the future.
So few people listen to far-off signals and so many will leave radio
altogether if we do not modernize delivery that this is a small price to pay
to stay off obselecence.
> I think you'll find that rather than buy expensive new radios,
They will not be expensive as they roll out. My first CD player was $1,400.
My first DVD player was nearly $700. My first VHS was over $800. My first
walkman CD player was nearly $300. Now there are $19 DVD players, $14 CD
walkman players and nobody wants a VHS device.
> that listeners will just turn off their radios and go to other
> entertainment modes.. this is already largely the case with Ipods,
> portable CD and MD players, etc.
Which have been studied and found to not compete with radio, but, in many
cases, create more radio listening. Just as 45's and cassettes and CDs did.
They are complimentary.
> Most young people don't even own a radio anymore, it's too easy for them
> to get the music they want, load it onto a personal portable device, and
> hear what they want, when they want, without incessant DJ patter and
> endless advertisements.
Radio does not program to young people. It can not afford to. Yet, 93% of
teens use radio weekly, so your data is just about totally wrong. You have
some kind of emotional reaction to this that does not allow you to see the
reality of pricing, radio usage or the "digital" phenomenon.
>
>
>
David Eduardo
>>> In every market, we have had good HD experiences on AM and FM... NY,
>>> Miami, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Phoenix, LA, San Diego, San Francisco,
>>> etc. All our engineers like it, and love the sound.
>
> I call BS. I have personal reports that AM IBOC cannot be heard in
> downtown Manhattan on a display radio.
I know ESB stations that can not be heard in stores 6 blocks away. Manhattan
is a horrible place for FM.
The fact is, our WCAA on HD has better usable coverage and better building
penetration than the analog signal.
As I have said, we are finding this to be uniformly true, which is why
nearly all our 70 stations will be HD by the end of next year.
David Eduardo
"Steve" <sdan...@speakeasy.net> wrote in message
news:1148135989....@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Yeah, well, *extremely* heavy emphasis has to be placed on "noise free"
> in order for this claim to be true. Otherwise it is patently false.
Listeners do no significantly use metro AMs outside the 10 mv/m and FMs
outside the 64 dbu, with 85% of listening in the 70 debu. The HD signal
exceeds this.
>
David Eduardo
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Since nobody answered the modem, you were NOT contacted. Your phone line
>> was
>> attempted, and discarded when it did not have a human on the other end.
>>
>
> Actually I was contacted -- by mail. Got the dollar bill and
> everything. But when I told them it wasn't my primary phone number
> they lost interest.
Original contact is made by pone, not mail. So you are lying or changing the
order of things.
>
> They also sent the dollar bill and contact information to the water
> system's billing address. The water association got a big laugh over
> it.
Arbitron does not recruit by mail. Ever.
>
> Don't tell me I wasn't contacted when I was. Once again it shows you
> to be in a bubble of unreality.
I just checked with a person at Arbitron. The MRC approved methodology is
phone contact followed by mailing of a BOX with the diary in it along with
the incentive, phone confirmation of receipt, phone follow up after day 1,
phone follow up after weekend, phone follow-up on Thursday for completion
and mail-back.
David Eduardo
>
> David Eduardo wrote:
>>
>> In every market, we have had good HD experiences on AM and FM... NY,
>> Miami,
>> Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Phoenix, LA, San Diego, San Francisco, etc. All
>> our engineers like it, and love the sound.
>
> I'm glad your engineers are happy, but I suspect your advertisers are
> aiming at a slightly larger listening audience.
We had our highest total ratings ever in Winter 2006. The advertisers are
happy. Our company was awarded the only A+ for ratings performance by an
investment firm that tracks radio as an industry.
>> The HD signal exceeds the USABLE Am and FM coutours in every case...
>> unless
>> you are using the Boston Acoustics Receptor, which is a bad HD radio.
>
> Unless you have unreasonably high standards for what counts as
> 'usable', this is simply false.
My standard is the contours where listening occurs. there have been plenty
of studies of where most listening occurs, and where the drop-off contours
are. Most of us have been tracking this sort of stuff since the 70's.
David Eduardo
"clifto" <cli...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:kh84k3-...@remote.clifto.com...
> Brenda Ann wrote:
>> They can market them all they want. I don't know anyone personally that
>> will
>> buy one.
>
> I'd buy one for $10 if it had a usable line out I could feed my stereo
> gear.
> Much more than that, and it's just not worth it to hear talk radio or
> Spanish music.
I did not know there was any station in the US that played much music from
Spain.
Of course, you meant "music in Spanish" I assume. ;-)
cuh...@webtv.net
am really a dirty old man.
cuhulin
Eric F. Richards
>
> "Eric F. Richards" <efr...@dim.com> wrote in message
> news:655u625sqhj0i2ug9...@4ax.com...
> > "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Since nobody answered the modem, you were NOT contacted. Your phone line
> >> was
> >> attempted, and discarded when it did not have a human on the other end.
> >>
> >
> > Actually I was contacted -- by mail. Got the dollar bill and
> > everything. But when I told them it wasn't my primary phone number
> > they lost interest.
>
> Original contact is made by pone, not mail. So you are lying or changing the
> order of things.
Well, you better tell Arbitron that it has an imposter, then.
> >
> > They also sent the dollar bill and contact information to the water
> > system's billing address. The water association got a big laugh over
> > it.
>
> Arbitron does not recruit by mail. Ever.
"BE PART OF THE RADIO RATINGS!
"Whether you listen a little, a lot, or not at all, you are important.
Yours is one of the few households in your area chosen to tell radio
stations what you listen to.
"It's easy and fun to take part in our radio survey. In just a few
days, an Arbitron reasearch assistant will call with more details.
Or, here is how to get started right away:
"o Call 1-800-638-7091 and ask to speak with an Arbitron research
assistant, or
"o Enroll on line at www.enroll.arbitronratings.com by using the
following serial number (ed: deleted)
"Thanks for your help,
"/s/ Steve Morris
"President, Arbitron Ratings
"PS: Please accept the small token of appreciation we have enclosed
with the letter."
...but clearly again you know better than this letter how they
recruit.
Jeez, your idiocy never ends, does it?
> >
> > Don't tell me I wasn't contacted when I was. Once again it shows you
> > to be in a bubble of unreality.
>
> I just checked with a person at Arbitron. The MRC approved methodology is
> phone contact followed by mailing of a BOX with the diary in it along with
> the incentive, phone confirmation of receipt, phone follow up after day 1,
> phone follow up after weekend, phone follow-up on Thursday for completion
> and mail-back.
>
--
Eric F. Richards
> David Eduardo wrote:
> > "Eric F. Richards" <efr...@dim.com> wrote...
> >> Arbitron will never figure it out, too.
> >
> > Arbitron uses a percentage of RDD calls (Random Digit Dialing) to know
> > prefixes. This is to pick up unlisted phones in proportion with their
> > presence in each metro. Some will be inactive. Some will not answer. Some
> > will be faxes. So they perform enough calls to get the proper quota of
> > unlisted numbers to get market proportionality.
>
> It doesn't matter that the comedian expected to get the pie in his face,
> it's still funny to watch it happen.
I dunno if you mean me or him. Below I enclosed the entire text of
the letter sent to me, then having been rejected after they found out
my modem phone number wasn't my primary voice mail -- their online
registration actually told me that I wasn't the person at that number.
The flat earth society lives -- at Arbitron and in the mind of
Eduardo.
Eric F. Richards
>
[...]
>
> Original contact is made by pone, not mail. So you are lying or changing the
> order of things.
[...]
>
> Arbitron does not recruit by mail. Ever.
http://www.dim.com/~efricha/arbitron.gif
Next excuse?
Eric F. Richards
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>
> >
> [...]
> >
> > Original contact is made by pone, not mail. So you are lying or changing the
> > order of things.
> [...]
> >
> > Arbitron does not recruit by mail. Ever.
>
> http://www.dim.com/~efricha/arbitron.gif
Or http://www.dim.com/~efricha/arbitron.png for usable quality
>
> Next excuse?
David Eduardo
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>>
>> Arbitron does not recruit by mail. Ever.
>
> "BE PART OF THE RADIO RATINGS!
>
> "Whether you listen a little, a lot, or not at all, you are important.
> Yours is one of the few households in your area chosen to tell radio
> stations what you listen to.
>
> "It's easy and fun to take part in our radio survey. In just a few
> days, an Arbitron reasearch assistant will call with more details.
> Or, here is how to get started right away:
>
> "o Call 1-800-638-7091 and ask to speak with an Arbitron research
> assistant, or
>
> "o Enroll on line at www.enroll.arbitronratings.com by using the
> following serial number (ed: deleted)
>
> "Thanks for your help,
>
> "/s/ Steve Morris
> "President, Arbitron Ratings
>
> "PS: Please accept the small token of appreciation we have enclosed
> with the letter."
>
>
> ...but clearly again you know better than this letter how they
> recruit.
>
> Jeez, your idiocy never ends, does it?
As I said, they do not recruit by mail. The phone call is what decides
whether you are going to get the diary or not. There are a battery of
questions asked on the phone call, starting with the media household
question, that can ace or nix the participation. The letter is merely a
setup for the phone recruit. If you are in a cell they have filled quota
for, you are out (age, ethnicity, sex, geography). If the data for the
contact does not match the data of the contact, they nix you (to keep the
"letter" from being passed around). And so on.
Just in case you missed it... the mthodology is based on acceptance of a
person / household via the phone contact.
The letter is an experimental procedure, used to see if it will increase
participation at the time of the recruitment call. The real incentive is
sent with the diaries.
David Eduardo
> clifto <cli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> David Eduardo wrote:
>> > "Eric F. Richards" <efr...@dim.com> wrote...
>> >> Arbitron will never figure it out, too.
>> >
>> > Arbitron uses a percentage of RDD calls (Random Digit Dialing) to know
>> > prefixes. This is to pick up unlisted phones in proportion with their
>> > presence in each metro. Some will be inactive. Some will not answer.
>> > Some
>> > will be faxes. So they perform enough calls to get the proper quota of
>> > unlisted numbers to get market proportionality.
>>
>> It doesn't matter that the comedian expected to get the pie in his face,
>> it's still funny to watch it happen.
>
> I dunno if you mean me or him. Below I enclosed the entire text of
> the letter sent to me, then having been rejected after they found out
> my modem phone number wasn't my primary voice mail -- their online
> registration actually told me that I wasn't the person at that number.
>
> The flat earth society lives -- at Arbitron and in the mind of
> Eduardo.
As I said, the letter is a pre-contact to "warm the welcome" when the
recruitment call is made. If anything does not match, they nix you. And that
means using a different phone, because you could have passed the letter to a
friend. In any case, the letter is an experimental technique to increase
response rates and not generally used.
David Eduardo
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>
>>
> [...]
>>
>> Original contact is made by pone, not mail. So you are lying or changing
>> the
>> order of things.
> [...]
>>
>> Arbitron does not recruit by mail. Ever.
>
> http://www.dim.com/~efricha/arbitron.gif
>
> Next excuse?
No argument. That is not a recruitment, though. It is a warm up. There are a
whole bunch of hoops you have to jump through to actually be part of the
survey.
Brenda Ann
And how can you call it a ludicrous statement? It is a proper statement of
FACT. <I> will never purchase an IBOC device. <I> will never listen to an
IBOC signal. I am sick to death of having digital crammed down my throat
when it is universally inferior to analog as far as listenability. I would
much rather hear a bit of static on AM radio than the digital artifacts that
exist in AM IBOC. I'm sick of digital satellite television with artifacts
and pixelization and dropouts in even the most modest of rain storms which
would have at most produced a bit of sparkling in the old analog satellite
television. I have real world reports that the systems you push so hard do
not work in areas where analog does.
>> I won't spend a cent to replace something that has always worked with
>> something of questionable value in general and no value whatsoever to me.
>
> Most people will feel that having twice the FM "stations" is well worht
> it. One time cost, tangible gain.
Again, for most I do not believe it will be a gain. More of the same old
crap for an additional investment of any kind is not going to sway people to
buy IBOC radios. If it were so that they would do so, then the numbers for
XM and Sirius would be a lot better than they are, and they wouldn't be
trying to give away radios to get people to subscribe.
You also presume that radio stations are going to spend the money on the
additional programming sources to add to IBOC FM. I rather believe that most
stations will opt to stay with their one basic programming source.
>> IBOC interferes with adjacent channel stations. This is just poor
>> engineering, and something that would never have been allowed in the days
>> when the FCC was composed of engineers instead of greedy politicians.
>
> Since there is scan evidence that the adjacents are being listened to in
> the areas where the interference happens, this is irrelevant.
Whether or not anyone, in your small version of the world, is listening or
not, it's still piss poor engineering practice to splatter 2 or 3 channels
away from your own. There's no way you can possibly make a silk purse out of
that sow's ear.
In case you hadn't noticed in your myopic view, young people make money,
they buy things. They also get older, and build into your narrow
demographic. I know lots of young people, and I doubt that 10% of them own a
radio. They own mp3 players. They read magazines, and buy CD's or download
mp3's based on name recognition.
dxAce
"Eric F. Richards" wrote:
That's how they contacted me... via letter.
dxAce
Michigan
USA
Eric F. Richards
Sure it is. I went straight to the web site and started answing
questions. When the website told me that the phone number wasn't
mine, I called the number, and was told that because it wasn't my
primary phone number I couldn't take place in the survey. Just a
little bit of error checkign would have fixed that.
Your claim that "Arbitron does not recruit by mail. Ever." looks
pretty weak -- call it a prerecruitment, a warm up, whatever -- it was
a solicitation for me, er, my computer to participate.
David Eduardo
"dxAce" <dx...@milestones.com> wrote in message
news:44705596...@milestones.com...
>
>
> That's how they contacted me... via letter.
The letter is not the "recruit". It is simply a warm up, just like pitches
in the bull pen are not part of the actual baseball game. The recruit comes
when there is a call back and verification of the individual, household,
phone number and determination if that household is needed in the sample.
David Eduardo
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Eric F. Richards" <efr...@dim.com> wrote in message
>> news:88vv62luv5i554btk...@4ax.com...
>> > "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> > [...]
>> >>
>> >> Original contact is made by pone, not mail. So you are lying or
>> >> changing
>> >> the
>> >> order of things.
>> > [...]
>> >>
>> >> Arbitron does not recruit by mail. Ever.
>> >
>> > http://www.dim.com/~efricha/arbitron.gif
>> >
>> > Next excuse?
>>
>> No argument. That is not a recruitment, though. It is a warm up. There
>> are a
>> whole bunch of hoops you have to jump through to actually be part of the
>> survey.
>>
>
> Sure it is. I went straight to the web site and started answing
> questions. When the website told me that the phone number wasn't
> mine, I called the number, and was told that because it wasn't my
> primary phone number I couldn't take place in the survey. Just a
> little bit of error checkign would have fixed that.
So, you were NOT accepted. In other words, there was a recruit process
following the letter. Just what I said.
You were kicked from the sample and not recruited because the number did not
match. This is part of recruit screening to avoid "sample swapping" where
one respondent takes the place of another.
There are various other things beyod the phone number that could have also
resulted in your not being accepted.
>
> Your claim that "Arbitron does not recruit by mail. Ever." looks
> pretty weak -- call it a prerecruitment, a warm up, whatever -- it was
> a solicitation for me, er, my computer to participate.
No, it was, if you want to use your terms, a pre-screening "invitation" to
go through the recruitment process. You were NOT accepted via the letter.
You were asked to call or log on, and in your case, you were not accepted in
the sample. There are many other reasons for non-acceptance, so the letter
is an invitation. It is not a guarantee that you will be used. Therefore, it
is not recruitment, only a set up or staging to enhance the likelihood that
the person will be able to be contacted for recruitment.
dxAce
Spin, spin, spin.
Don't get your panties in a knot, boy.
dxAce
Michigan
USA
David Eduardo
>
> "David Eduardo" <amd...@pacbell.com> wrote in message
> news:baMbg.29414$4L1....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>>> I know that personally, I will never spend the money on IBOC receiving
>>> equipment.
>>
>> Since you don't even know how much it will cost in the next 18 months,
>> that is a ludicrous statement.
>
> And how can you call it a ludicrous statement? It is a proper statement of
> FACT. <I> will never purchase an IBOC device. <I> will never listen to an
> IBOC signal. I am sick to death of having digital crammed down my throat
> when it is universally inferior to analog as far as listenability. I would
> much rather hear a bit of static on AM radio than the digital artifacts
> that exist in AM IBOC.
This is certainly circuitous thinking. You would not buy and would not
listen because you have determined without doing either that AM HD sounds
bad. Actually, it sounds far better than analog, and the current revisions
of the algorithm are quite nice sounding. Beats the hell out of what we have
in LA on analog, which is 25 mv/m signals being trashed at intersections
with LED stoplight control boxes and noisy power lines except the 15 days a
year when it rains.
> I'm sick of digital satellite television with artifacts and pixelization
> and dropouts in even the most modest of rain storms which would have at
> most produced a bit of sparkling in the old analog satellite television. I
> have real world reports that the systems you push so hard do not work in
> areas where analog does.
And we have actuall empirical evidence, rather than "reports" that may have
been based on early iteratins of the system, that both AM and FM have usable
signals in most cases greater than the usable analog signals.
>> Most people will feel that having twice the FM "stations" is well worht
>> it. One time cost, tangible gain.
>
> Again, for most I do not believe it will be a gain. More of the same old
> crap for an additional investment of any kind is not going to sway people
> to buy IBOC radios. If it were so that they would do so, then the numbers
> for XM and Sirius would be a lot better than they are, and they wouldn't
> be trying to give away radios to get people to subscribe.
XM and Sirius cost over $150 a year, outside the receiver cost. HD-2
channels, which are popping up on nearly every HD station int he launch
markets, are free and almost all offer formats not available in the market.
It essentially doubles the FM format offerings. For example, NY has oldies,
not available on the analog band, as well as country, classic salsa an
"real" jazz, to name a few that are not available on analog. Many markets
get thire first AAA station, or replace a lost oldies station, or get urban
AC for the first time. Free.
>
> You also presume that radio stations are going to spend the money on the
> additional programming sources to add to IBOC FM. I rather believe that
> most stations will opt to stay with their one basic programming source.
They already are. Nearly 100% of NYC commercial stations have HD-2 already,
and non-coms like NPR were actually hte first in.
Keep in mind that the roll out is by market size. First the big ones, and
then a move to medium and smaller ones. Over 60% of all Americans 12+ live
in the first 50 markets, by the way, so just covering them in the first two
years is considerabñle.
>>
>> Since there is scan evidence that the adjacents are being listened to in
>> the areas where the interference happens, this is irrelevant.
>
> Whether or not anyone, in your small version of the world, is listening or
> not, it's still piss poor engineering practice to splatter 2 or 3 channels
> away from your own. There's no way you can possibly make a silk purse out
> of that sow's ear.
Since the adjacents are not being used, we are making better use of them.
This is no different than a store that generates no business... it goes
broke and the location is used for something else. In this case, the
adjacent is not being used by listeners, per measurement of audience in my
very big world of the entire US and Puerto Rico, so we are going to use it
to improve radio for the people who do listen on the stations they listen
to.
>
> In case you hadn't noticed in your myopic view, young people make money,
Teens have essentially no money spent against them by advertisers. I really
don't care whether teens and 55+ persons have money, since the fact is that
advertisers and their ad agencies do not spend any radio money against them,
which is why they are not targeted by radio. If nobody rides a hores into
town, you wil not have a need for a livery stable.
> they buy things. They also get older, and build into your narrow
> demographic.
And, amusingly to be sure, they listen to radio when they have jobs,
families and a busy schedule that does not permit spending as much time
feeding the iPod, etc. Again, over 90% of teens actually do listen to the
radio, so your contention that they do not is absurd.
> I know lots of young people, and I doubt that 10% of them own a radio.
> They own mp3 players. They read magazines, and buy CD's or download mp3's
> based on name recognition.
Your anecdotal evidence is, thus, better than an Arbitron survey of millions
of listeners a year?
David Eduardo
From you, I have grown to expect BS on just about every subject. I could
give a shit about what you think.
dxAce
"Eric F. Richards" wrote:
He's been an idiot ever since I first came across his fake name in print. He
generally gets his ass handed to him in most every 'dicussion' he enters into.
How he ever made it in the field he's working in is just amazing. But then again,
one must factor in who he's working for and who their target audience is.
Remember, he's 'HFBPO' (Hispanic For Business Purposes Only).
dxAce
Michigan
USA
dxAce
David Frackelton Gleason aka Eduardo wrote:
> "dxAce" <dx...@milestones.com> wrote in message
> news:447075DD...@milestones.com...
> >
> >
> > David Frackelton Gleason aka Eduardo wrote:
> >
> >> "dxAce" <dx...@milestones.com> wrote in message
> >> news:44705596...@milestones.com...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > That's how they contacted me... via letter.
> >>
> >> The letter is not the "recruit". It is simply a warm up, just like
> >> pitches
> >> in the bull pen are not part of the actual baseball game. The recruit
> >> comes
> >> when there is a call back and verification of the individual, household,
> >> phone number and determination if that household is needed in the sample.
> >
> > Spin, spin, spin.
> >
> > Don't get your panties in a knot, boy.
>
> From you, I have grown to expect BS on just about every subject. I could
> give a shit about what you think.
Please, keep your shit in your panties.
dxAce
Michigan
USA
cuh...@webtv.net
Sucks!
cuhulin
David Eduardo
>
>
> He's been an idiot ever since I first came across his fake name in print.
> He
> generally gets his ass handed to him in most every 'dicussion' he enters
> into.
News to me.
> How he ever made it in the field he's working in is just amazing. But then
> again,
> one must factor in who he's working for and who their target audience is.
Translation: you are a racist. When Univision beats 2 of the 4 major TV
networks in prime adult demos, it is hardly an audience group or a network
that you can successfully belittle. And when the same company has 3 of the
top 10 stations, including tow of the top 4, in Los Angeles, and is top 5 in
markets like san Diego, Houston, Phoenix, Dallas, Chicago, Las Vegas, San
Antonio, Miami, it is further hard to dismiss us. By the way, an industry
person who gives a "grade" on ratings performance gave us the only A+ in the
Winter Arbitrons, the only radio broadcaster to earn that grade.
What have you done lately.
>
> Remember, he's 'HFBPO' (Hispanic For Business Purposes Only).
I grew up Hispanic. Hispanic is a culture, not a race.