The designer(also the main engineer of DE1103 & Grundig SAT800) now ask advise of the receiver function from BCLer, the DE1108 will be the high-end receiver of DE 110X series, it comes with a large dot matrix LCD display(128*64) two way speaker system, MP3 recorder, AM sync detector, SSB, dual conversion, the reference basis is SAT700, it should has better performance than sony 2001D, 7600G, SW77 even SAT700, the outline dimensions will be large than SAT700,pls post your thougts here, I will take the message to the design, thank you!
> The designer(also the main engineer of DE1103 & Grundig SAT800) now ask > advise of the receiver function from BCLer, the DE1108 will be the > high-end receiver of DE 110X series, it comes with a large dot matrix > LCD display(128*64) two way speaker system, MP3 recorder, AM sync > detector, SSB, dual conversion, the reference basis is SAT700, it > should has better performance than sony 2001D, 7600G, SW77 even SAT700, > the outline dimensions will be large than SAT700,pls post your thougts > here, I will take the message to the design, thank you!
OK, here are a few thoughts on features I would like to see on the DE1108 portable:
1. Digital readout to a finer resolution than the Sony 2001D. A readout of 0.01 kHz would be very nice.
2. A passband tuning control (PBT) such as the Eton E1/Grundig Sat900 will have, useful to at least +/- 2 kHz range. If passband tuning cannot be included, then the AM synch detector should be a SELECTABLE SIDEBAND type, as with the Sony's. Ideally, the new Degen would have both of these features.
3. Sensitivity at least as good as the DE1103, which is a useful portable here on the West Coast of the USA where signals are weaker.
4. A comfortable, large tuning knob, without audio "chuffing" (muting) when tuning. The tuning knob on the DE1103 was a step in the right direction, except it couldn't be very big due to the small size of the radio itself.
In article <1107187867.764998.76...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, leowood2...@msn.com wrote: >The designer(also the main engineer of DE1103 & Grundig SAT800) now ask >advise of the receiver function from BCLer, the DE1108 will be the >high-end receiver of DE 110X series, it comes with a large dot matrix >LCD display(128*64) two way speaker system, MP3 recorder, AM sync >detector, SSB, dual conversion, the reference basis is SAT700, it >should has better performance than sony 2001D, 7600G, SW77 even SAT700, >the outline dimensions will be large than SAT700,pls post your thougts >here, I will take the message to the design, thank you!
128 x 64 dots? Not large I'd like a spectrum display, that is too small for effectiveness.
I heard the interview on local radio with the Eton manager and wonder if it is to be too much for what it is, sw and sat radio, etc. Seems too much.
Dual or triple conversion with no less than excellent front-end selectivity.
Full coverage from at least 100 kHz to 30000 kHz AM (no gaps), 76-108 MHz FM, and possibly simple air band reception (118-137 Mhz).
4 or 6 rechargeable-NiMH "D"-cell operation with MANUAL switch on back to choose AC or Battery operation (so that AC Adapter need not be unplugged when on battery power).
Synchronous-selectable sideband reception is a MUST. Should be designed at least as well as that on the Grundig Satellit 800. Full passband tuning would be even better. Lock must be held as well as on AR7030 model and must automatically turn off when tuning and then re-lock when station is selected.
A good notch filter (with at least 50 dB depth) with range of 0.1 - 5 kHz.
At least 3 IF filters (bandwidths) (preferably 4) of 2.2 kHz, 4 kHz, 6 kHz (and possibly 1 kHz for data/CW); operation of these filters should be cascaded so that inexpensive ceramic filters will give much better performance than usual. (6 filter bandwidths would be ideal.) All shape factors should be less than 1:2.
All parameters should be fully adjustable independently in all modes of reception (except FM and the digital modes).
At least 200 memories. Tuning via knob (no "chugging" or muting), "slew" buttons (5 kHz on SW, 9/10 kHz on MW, 9 kHz on LW, and 100 Mhz on FM). Signal-scan automatic tuning. Memory scanning. Automatic memory sorting. Automatic station setup (as on Sangean models) for AM and FM memories.
Remote control operation possible with a CORDED detachable remote control (at least 6 feet in length or adaptable to an extension cord if user desires).
Dial illumination via LEDs, perhaps color-switchable (Red, Blue, Green).
Dial light scheme similar to Grundig Satellit 800. (Always on or always off with AC power, on for 15 seconds with any button push when using battery power, or always off with batteries, as desired by user.)
Line outputs for external speaker(s) and stereo system. Excellent sound quality is a must. Independent tone controls (Treble and Bass) should be incorporated. Internal mono speaker of high quality is preferable to mediocre stereo speakers.
At least two external antenna inputs for AM/SW (high and low impedence) as well as an FM antenna input.
Built-in antennas should be: a LONG (possibly detachable) whip (PLUS a shorter whip possibly optionally offered for travel); a LONG (at least 130 mm) internal ferrite antenna for MW and LW. External antennas to override internal ones.
IBOC reception (AM & FM) for the US. Canadian DAB. (Possibly European DAB.) Self-contained DRM (or a 12 kHz IF output to connect to a DRM-equipped computer).
Clocks should be RADIO-CONTROLLED (and operated independently from radio and powered via 2 AA or AAA batteries). Two times zones should be available, one of which should be UTC. Local time should be adjustable for daylight-savings time (via radio control) if required; UTC should NOT be affected by DST change. One of the clocks (including seconds) should ALWAYS be visible, radio on or off.
No LEDs (except for dial illumination and possibly button illumination). Properly calibrated digital bar graph S-meter of at least 12 segments.
A high-quality plastic cabinet or, preferably, a light-weight metal (aluminum or magnesium) cabinet.
ALL internal components to be of TOP-QUALITY (formerly known as MIL-spec).
Excellent sensitivity; a 3 or 4 step attenuator (or adjustable RF-gain control) should be incorporated.
All other specifications to be of Drake R8B/AOR AR7030 caliber, especially blocking, ultimate rejection, image rejection, and, most important, dynamic range. Excellent sensitivity (a 3 or 4 step attenuator would be of help).
A carrying case (nylon or leather) should be optionally offered; this should be able to carry AC adapter, batteries, and any other options, as well as fully protecting the radio.
Servicing is important. All service information should be made available on line.
Guy Atkins has made some important suggestions; his suggestions should be incorporated also.
A tall order? Yes. A "perfect" radio? Almost. There has never been anything like it! What should this radio sell for? I would pay $1000 or more for such a radio; could it be manufactured in China for $700? Since this is to be your top-of-the-line radio, it should be designed and made as perfectly as possible.
One thing I have long waited for -- a radio with USB flash drive support. It would be great to record off the radio with different quality bit rates (low to high) and transfer the files to my pc for CD archiving or vise versa for playback on the radio.
> The designer(also the main engineer of DE1103 & Grundig SAT800) now ask > advise of the receiver function from BCLer, the DE1108 will be the > high-end receiver of DE 110X series, it comes with a large dot matrix > LCD display(128*64) two way speaker system, MP3 recorder, AM sync > detector, SSB, dual conversion, the reference basis is SAT700, it > should has better performance than sony 2001D, 7600G, SW77 even SAT700, > the outline dimensions will be large than SAT700,pls post your thougts > here, I will take the message to the design, thank you!
LW2, . Using the Sony ICF-2010 as a 'standard and a Grundig Satellit 800 M as a Reference: . * DRM = Digital Radio Mondiale Built-in DRM Signal Processor. . * Radio Data System {RDS} Information Display . * AM SYNC with Selectable SSB - Dual Side Band AM-Sync = 6 kHz - Selected USB/LSB Single Side Band AM-Sync = 3.4 kHz . * Four AM Shortwave IF Band Widths - DRM Extra-Wide 12 kHz - AM Normal 6 kHz {AM Sync} - DXing Narrow 3.4 kHz {AM-Sync Selectable SSB} - SSB 2.4 kHz . * Two FM IF Band Widths - Stereo/Local FM Normal = 210 kHz Wide - Mono/DX FM Distance = 130 kHz Narrow . * RF Signal Input Control Three Position : - BOOST = Built-in 10 dB Pre-Amplifier for the Whip and Ferrite Bar Antennas. - DX = Normal - LOCAL = Shortwave Only 2-30 MHz Band Pass Filter with -20dB Attenuation for both the AM/MW Band and FM Band. . * Large Tuning Knob and Up & Down Tuning Buttons with about 240 to 360 Memories. . * Dual Tuning Steps: {Fast and Fine} - FM = 200 & 20 kHz - AM = 10 & 1 kHz {AM-BCB = 9/10} - SSB = 1 kHz & 100 Hz . Separate Antenna Inputs : - FM "F" / PAL Connector - AM/MW and Shortwave - - HI-Z Dual Terminals {A&G} - - LO-Z Jack SO-239 . * Speakers Three (2:1) for FM Stereo - One Rear Facing Bass {4.5" Sub-Woofer} - Two = Left and Right Front {3" Stereo} - Audio Output Selector Switch: - - Mono Talk & News {Voice} Front Two - - Mono Music all three speakers - - FM Stereo - HiFi (2:1) NOTE - Sort of like the Grundig Satellit 2400 Dual Speakers put the Controls in the Center and the Speakers on the the Left and Right Front Sides. http://www.dr-boesch.ch/radio/grundig-sat2400.htm . * Built-in "D" Size Rechargable Batteries with an 'external' AC>DC Power Adapter / Battery Charger. Auto/Car DC>DC Power Adapter / Battery Charger. . * The Right "Size" - About the Size of a Panasonic RF-2600 'portable' AM/FM Shortwave Radio : NOTE - Look at the Lay out of the Controls and the Big Main Tuning Knob. http://www.dxing.com/rx/rf799.htm - 13.5" W - 9.3" H - 4.6" D - Seven Pounds (7 Lbs.) . well thats my double-nickels worth ~ RHF . .
> The designer(also the main engineer of DE1103 & Grundig SAT800) now ask > advise of the receiver function from BCLer, the DE1108 will be the > high-end receiver of DE 110X series, it comes with a large dot matrix > LCD display(128*64) two way speaker system, MP3 recorder, AM sync > detector, SSB, dual conversion, the reference basis is SAT700, it > should has better performance than sony 2001D, 7600G, SW77 even SAT700, > the outline dimensions will be large than SAT700,pls post your thougts > here, I will take the message to the design, thank you!
Some points I can think of offhand: * Use good quality IF filters, i.e. 6-element ceramics or such for AM. (If these should not be available, get inventive.) I'd combine these with a wider tail filter. I guess DSP usage is not an option? Some care when applying the 1st IF crystal filters may not hurt, to ensure good image rejection (as well as intermodulation characteristics). FM should use 3 cascaded filters with a medium bandwidth to match the Satellit 700, with 3 gangs (tuned front-end circuits) recommended. * With a two way speaker system, make sure sound is as good as possible with the concept, and that not only to Chinese ears. Audio engineering has sadly been frequently neglected in the last 10...15 years or so. If some kind of EQ circuit (for speaker operation only) is needed, so be it, the radio makers of yore also used such tricks. (There should be an additional tone control, tastes in sound differ after all.) Some research in terms of vibration suppression or loudspeaker building in general and such may be of help. Given the sound is right, a simple line-level 3.5 mm (stereo) input for amplifying purposes might be a nice touch. * Get the internal shielding right, particularly with a non-negligible digital section. * Oscillator pulling by lighting LEDs (DE1102 in SSB) and other such funky stuff better be ironed out, along with operating kinks. Plain ol' analog volume control and paged decimal presets please. * Front end selectivity for the AM ranges should be one filter for LW, one for MW and then several (~ octave) for shortwave, maybe further varactor-tuned. (The '700 had an electronically tuned preselector, though it seems alignment of the thing from the factory wasn't always that great.) Those living near MW transmitters (rather common in the US) are likely to appreciate a highpass filter for shortwave. * A big receiver should offer sufficient space for a big ferrite rod antenna, for good LW/MW (and I'd also suggest low SW up to ~2.5 MHz or so, where telescopic antennas tend to be inefficient) sensitivity and directionality. Something rotatable à la RF-2200 might be worth considering; the bigger a receiver is, the more tiresome rotating the whole thing becomes. * I suggest at least two different frequency steps, better 3 - usual frequency grid for the band, 1 kHz and then something smallish (maybe 100 Hz plus analog fine tuning, or <= 20 Hz without). * Memory presets: With EEPROMs being rather inexpensive these days, a few hundreds with at least 8-digit name tags should be possible. But if MP3 recorder functionality (with commodity flash memory, I guess?) is already present, one could also use the associated storage. If this should be removable, a simple file format like CSV could enable easy presets interchanging and PC based updating. (This might even include firmware updates, which certainly are not a bad idea.) The MP3 recording probably features adjustable sample rates, (average / variable, not only constant) bit rates and mono/stereo selection? (Shortwave recordings would probably require no more than 11025 Hz mono and thus a relatively low data rate, while FM stereo would best be recorded with 32000 Hz or 44100 Hz in stereo.) * In spite of all possible complexity, the essential functions - tuning and frequency entering, tone control, basic preset saving and recalling - must remain simple and intuitive to use. If someone can figure these out without reading the manual, this is good. On a bigger set, placement of things like a tuning wheel requires some thought in order to avoid (arm related) fatigue during longer listening sessions. * Any plans for DRM reception? (Provided some matching and not so power hungry ICs are already available. If not, a 12 kHz IF output derived from a suitable spot - maybe behind a 10...12 kHz filter normally improving ultimate rejection - is better than nothing. Reserving some space for an add-on DRM board may not hurt then.) What about RDS for FM? * Dual balanced 1st mixers have been very similar in portables, and that for over 20 years now - how boring. Try some other circuit variants, maybe these give better results. * For a receiver of this class, availability of servicing instructions is virtually a must.
I'm pretty sure build quality will not be an issue, given I see little reason to complain about this even on the little DE105 (I recently obtained a relabeled one). DEGEN certainly has the potential to become a major player in the mobile entertainment market.
Stephan -- Meine Andere Seite: http://stephan.win31.de/ PC#6: i440BX, 2xP3-500E, 704 MiB, 18+80 GB, R9k AGP 64 MiB, 110W This is a SCSI-inside, Legacy-plus, TCPA-free computer :)
leowood2...@msn.com wrote: > The designer(also the main engineer of DE1103 & Grundig SAT800) now ask > advise of the receiver function from BCLer, the DE1108 will be the > high-end receiver of DE 110X series, it comes with a large dot matrix > LCD display(128*64) two way speaker system, MP3 recorder, AM sync > detector, SSB, dual conversion, the reference basis is SAT700, it > should has better performance than sony 2001D, 7600G, SW77 even SAT700, > the outline dimensions will be large than SAT700,pls post your thougts > here, I will take the message to the design, thank you!
In additional to the other features, how about a couple of wide IF bandwidths?
10 kHz for SW 20 kHz for AM and some digital modes
These bandwidths would allow users to take advantage of the full bandwidth that may be broadcast (5 kHz on SW and 10 kHz on BCB). It also facilitates bringing out the IF for DRM or other digital modes.
sure the chief engineer of SAT800 is from Tecsun ,one of the biggest radio manufacturer in China, now he has left the job then running a independent design house, the DE1103 if one of his design out for DEGEN company.
On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:41:02 -0600, "homepc" <wieb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>One thing I have long waited for -- a radio with USB flash drive support. >It would be great to record off the radio with different quality bit rates >(low to high) and transfer the files to my pc for CD archiving or vise versa >for playback on the radio.
Or/and a USB interface for computer control and audio to the PC for recording to hard disk or remote access. If you do this, please publish the full specifications so that others can write software - there are already some very good amateur packages that could easily be adapted. Bluetooth would be good! If a USB interface is included, it should optionally be able to charge internal batteries, like the iPod.
A noise blanker that is designed to cope with the modern urban environment of switch mode power supply, broadband and other interference. A form of diversity reception may help here.
Second IF brought out to a socket, for PC-based DRM reception.
Airband.
An intelligent memory system, that remembers mode, filter and other settings. It should be possible to easily set up groups of memories - not just '7 groups of 10' - that can quickly be scanned through from the main dial, and also have a 'dump this frequency to first free memory' single button. If at all possible, get a usability expert or panel of active BCL listeners to provide feedback on the user interface design.
><leowood2...@msn.com> wrote in message >news:1107187867.764998.76470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... >> The designer(also the main engineer of DE1103 & Grundig SAT800) now ask >> advise of the receiver function from BCLer, the DE1108 will be the >> high-end receiver of DE 110X series, it comes with a large dot matrix >> LCD display(128*64) two way speaker system, MP3 recorder, AM sync >> detector, SSB, dual conversion, the reference basis is SAT700, it >> should has better performance than sony 2001D, 7600G, SW77 even SAT700, >> the outline dimensions will be large than SAT700,pls post your thougts >> here, I will take the message to the design, thank you!
No one has mentioned an RF gain control. I think that is one of the biggest shortcomings of the Sat 800. I would like to see that ahead of notch filters, recording devices and a bazillion memories. Bob
leowood2...@msn.com wrote in news:1107187867.764998.76470 @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
> The designer(also the main engineer of DE1103 & Grundig SAT800) now ask > advise of the receiver function from BCLer, the DE1108 will be the > high-end receiver of DE 110X series, it comes with a large dot matrix > LCD display(128*64) two way speaker system, MP3 recorder, AM sync > detector, SSB, dual conversion, the reference basis is SAT700, it > should has better performance than sony 2001D, 7600G, SW77 even SAT700, > the outline dimensions will be large than SAT700,pls post your thougts > here, I will take the message to the design, thank you!
How about being controllable from a PC, and also flashable memory banks that could hold program details and schedules for portable operation? The schedule details could show on the screen when tuned in. Flash memory is cheap now-a-days.
DRM support should be built-in, or at a 12 khz filter and firmware should be flashable to enable it (and future digital radio standards perhaps).
Also selectable LSB/USB, none of this forced LSB/USB of the DE-1102 and 1103 portables (below 10 mhz forces LSB, above USB). Fine tuning should be like the ATS-909, in small steps, at the very least not with a tiny, hard- to-use thumbwheel.
And finally, provision for an add-on hardware board that perhaps could be used for XM or Sirius in the future or other Satelite radios.
I should also like to add one more item to my list posted previously: all memories and the firmware should be non-volatile. Should battery and AC power be disconnected, all information should be retained permanently (until changed by the user). All my best wishes for the success of this forthcoming receiver.
> Shoot, I feel like paying just to read your specs. > I want *that* radio!!!
How about giving us the long promised Eton-E1 first.
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LW2, . Some where i thought that I had read that Tecsun GEM China (PRC) 'owned' or was a major share holder in Degen. ? Now Is That True ? . i want to know ~ RHF . .
Some where i thought that I had read that Tecsun GEM China (PRC) 'owned' or was a major share holder in Degen. ? Now Is That True ? . i want to know ~ RHF
Actually Degen used to be a subsidiary of Tecsun several years ago, the main business is radio sales, aftermarket service and Electrical Design, no production line, some Tecsun's radio electrical designing was come from Degen, but now Degen was completely separated and independent, Degen has full capacity on receiver designing, mass production and has own sales channel, Degen become a powerful competitor of Tesun thus far , sure some Tecsun's shareholder has shares of Degen, but it absolutely not affect the competitive situation. once tecsun bring out a new model, then Degen has a similar one to compete, for example: Tecsun 9700DX~Degen 1107, Tecsun PL550~Degen 1103, Tecsun PL350~ Degen 1105, Tecsun PL200~ Degen 1102, now Degen are building the flagship of DE110* series , we would like to see what does the Tecsun bring to desk
All the post is very informative for designer's, I had transfered all to my forum bbs.leowood.net, sorry it's Chinese version. the designer is also a community moderator in this Chinese radio fan's forum, he has reviewed all the thread, I will keep all in the loop
At the risk of posting too much, may I say that I understand that Degen is one of China's leading radio manufacturers. As such, I hope that the design of this radio is a "no-holds-barred" short wave receiver of absolute top quality. Ergonomics especially should be user-friendly. Menu-driven radios are perfectly acceptable IF the owner's manual is comprehensive and complete. (I own an AOR AR7030 Plus, the best performing radio I have ever owned, which I find very easy to use due in part to its superb owner's manual. Though menu-driven, its ergonomics are superb.) NO "FRILLS" (such as a "fake" analog dial) should be on this radio; everything incorporated should be there for a distinct purpose: the best possible reception of the signals desired.
I sincerely hope you will take into consideration my suggestion to incorporate the various new terrestrial digital reception modes. It is not necessary (nor, in my opinion, desirable) to incorporate XM or Sirius satellite "pay" reception into this forthcoming radio. Satellite radio can better be served by another separate receiver.
As I stated above, ABSOLUTE TOP QUALITY in DESIGN, COMPONENTS, and CONSTRUCTION QUALITY are of PARAMOUNT importance.
Degen should market this radio in the USA under its own name. If the radio is a great one, this will give impetus to awareness of the Degen name in the United States.
I believe that, if any company can design and market a near-perfect short wave radio, Degen is that company.
> Clocks should be RADIO-CONTROLLED (and operated independently from > radio and powered via 2 AA or AAA batteries). Two times zones should be > available, one of which should be UTC. Local time should be adjustable > for daylight-savings time (via radio control) if required; UTC should > NOT be affected by DST change. One of the clocks (including seconds) > should ALWAYS be visible, radio on or off.
Regarding the clocks, I suggest making it possible for the user to disable the automatic time-setting based on the radio time signal.
Every once in a long while, radio-controlled clocks can mis-read the signal. I had a radio-controlled clock radio misread the DST information, and it was exactly 1 hour off for the next day! If you're relying on the radio to wake you up in the morning, this could be a problem (not likely, I'll admit, but I've seen it happen). Alternatively, design the radio controlled clock logic so that it makes a couple attempts to read the signal, and only update the clock if the results are consistent.
> At the risk of posting too much, may I say that I understand that Degen > is one of China's leading radio manufacturers. As such, I hope that the > design of this radio is a "no-holds-barred" short wave receiver of > absolute top quality. Ergonomics especially should be user-friendly. > Menu-driven radios are perfectly acceptable IF the owner's manual is > comprehensive and complete. (I own an AOR AR7030 Plus, the best > performing radio I have ever owned, which I find very easy to use due > in part to its superb owner's manual. Though menu-driven, its > ergonomics are superb.) NO "FRILLS" (such as a "fake" analog dial) > should be on this radio; everything incorporated should be there for a > distinct purpose: the best possible reception of the signals desired.
> I sincerely hope you will take into consideration my suggestion to > incorporate the various new terrestrial digital reception modes. It is > not necessary (nor, in my opinion, desirable) to incorporate XM or > Sirius satellite "pay" reception into this forthcoming radio. Satellite > radio can better be served by another separate receiver.
> As I stated above, ABSOLUTE TOP QUALITY in DESIGN, COMPONENTS, and > CONSTRUCTION QUALITY are of PARAMOUNT importance.
> Degen should market this radio in the USA under its own name. If the > radio is a great one, this will give impetus to awareness of the Degen > name in the United States.
> I believe that, if any company can design and market a near-perfect > short wave radio, Degen is that company.
My question is: What relationship does DEGEN have to the PLA (People's Liberation Army)?
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