I have been working on this one for a while and haven't said much about it because I really didn't think it would work.
It is fully motorized and makes about two meters an minute. It hasn't jammed once yet but I wouldn't leave it unattended.
Here is the real kicker. Its made completely out of *K'nex* (with the exception of the dies). Thats right, 100% made from a plastic kids toy. To top it off, the K'nex motors (which appear to be completely covered in a plastic casing) are powerful enough to run the entire machine alone!
Its by no means perfect, I'll probably redo the top (white thread) die and the blue thread is too thin. It has only been tested with sugar but it works beautifully with it.
http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/8294/whitedieonetk9.jpg The "White" die (named because the first thread is white) is where it happens. It took two tries to get a working die, this is really the only important part. The brass tubing needs to be lowered as far as possible without jamming up the white threads wrapping around it. Currently about three quarters of the sugar that leaves the funnel gets woven into the fuse.
http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/549/whitedietwozq6.jpg This view is a bit clearer. Its pretty much magic that it works, I never expected it to weave in so easily. It doesn't look like its possible for thread to just wrap around a powder but it works!
http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/16/bluediexp5.jpg Here is the second die (the "blue" one). The machine isn't operating when I took these pictures so there is no sugar. The blue die isn't really that important.
http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/2848/comparisonoh5.jpg This is a comparison of the fuse with no sugar inside (left one) and fuse with sugar inside (right one). As you can see, the sugar can work its way out (which is why I need thicker thread) but it works beautifully.
http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/5566/fuseonesa8.jpg Just a close up of the fuse. The sugar on the ground didn't leak from the fuse, any sugar that doesn't get woven into the machine hits the spinning disks and flies everywhere. I'll have to use the machine outside.
I found that the only two factors that affect the machine is the feed rate and the first die. Without the first die, the machine doesn't weave in any of the sugar. If the feed rate is too slow the sugar won't leak out but it doesn't get woven in properly either. Its much better to pull the thread through too fast than too slow As soon as the tracer (black ones that go through the funnel) threads start twisting, the machine wont work.
I haven't tested the machine without the tracer threads but I think they make a big difference. In the finished fuse, they are not twisted at all and you can see that the sugar is suspended between them. They also control the sugars feed rate so the fuse is a constant diameter.
ryan.tur...@shaw.ca wrote: > I have been working on this one for a while and haven't said much about > it because I really didn't think it would work.
> It is fully motorized and makes about two meters an minute. It hasn't > jammed once yet but I wouldn't leave it unattended.
> Here is the real kicker. Its made completely out of *K'nex* (with the > exception of the dies). Thats right, 100% made from a plastic kids > toy. To top it off, the K'nex motors (which appear to be completely > covered in a plastic casing) are powerful enough to run the entire > machine alone!
> Its by no means perfect, I'll probably redo the top (white thread) die > and the blue thread is too thin. It has only been tested with sugar > but it works beautifully with it.
> http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/8294/whitedieonetk9.jpg > The "White" die (named because the first thread is white) is where it > happens. It took two tries to get a working die, this is really the > only important part. The brass tubing needs to be lowered as far as > possible without jamming up the white threads wrapping around it. > Currently about three quarters of the sugar that leaves the funnel gets > woven into the fuse.
> http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/549/whitedietwozq6.jpg > This view is a bit clearer. Its pretty much magic that it works, I > never expected it to weave in so easily. It doesn't look like its > possible for thread to just wrap around a powder but it works!
> http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/16/bluediexp5.jpg > Here is the second die (the "blue" one). The machine isn't operating > when I took these pictures so there is no sugar. The blue die isn't > really that important.
> http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/2848/comparisonoh5.jpg > This is a comparison of the fuse with no sugar inside (left one) and > fuse with sugar inside (right one). > As you can see, the sugar can work its way out (which is why I need > thicker thread) but it works beautifully.
> http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/5566/fuseonesa8.jpg > Just a close up of the fuse. The sugar on the ground didn't leak from > the fuse, any sugar that doesn't get woven into the machine hits the > spinning disks and flies everywhere. I'll have to use the machine > outside.
> I found that the only two factors that affect the machine is the feed > rate and the first die. Without the first die, the machine doesn't > weave in any of the sugar. If the feed rate is too slow the sugar > won't leak out but it doesn't get woven in properly either. Its much > better to pull the thread through too fast than too slow As soon as > the tracer (black ones that go through the funnel) threads start > twisting, the machine wont work.
> I haven't tested the machine without the tracer threads but I think > they make a big difference. In the finished fuse, they are not twisted > at all and you can see that the sugar is suspended between them. They > also control the sugars feed rate so the fuse is a constant diameter.
Awesome! That is the spirit of beating all of the odds! And I'm looking for that store in Calgary. I actually bought some in Calgary with my brother once.
You have my nomination for pyro creativity. Anybody who can make a visco machine from K'nex is beyond creative. You have the design down pretty close. All you need now is the laquer rollers and the drying tunnel. I see a pyrotechnica article coming on.....
I made this machine because I live in Canada so buying fuse needs a license. It's probably going to be for personal use because I doubt the fuse will beat commercial quality. I haven't even seen black powder in my life so I am trying to track some down. A couple people recommended ProLine shooting which is only open on weekdays so I will see if that works out.
I thought about the lacquer and drying tunnel but I will probbably apply it in a seperate process due to the amount of space the machine would take.
Currently I will need to re-think the way the fuse gets pulled through the machine because it just winds on a little bar (aprox diameter .25"). After four or five meters wind onto it, the diameter gets large enough to change the feed speed.
K'nex is surprisingly good for this type of stuff though. Its very strong, easy to modify and build and most importantly, is designed for lots of moving parts so all the gears work flawlessly. The fact that the motor worked was an unexpected bonus.
If the black powder doesn't feed properly I will add a vibrator or something to the funnel. If that doesn't work, I will wet the tracer threads before they go through the funnel so that they pull the black powder through. If even that fails, I will pull all four tracer threads through black match slurry and then wrap them up (essentially making black match covered in thread and lacquer)
It is far from finished but hopefully I will end up with a flawlessly working fuse machine.
To be honest I thought you had just built it as a gag. I didn't realize you were really trying to make usable visco. The design is close enough that you must have seen a real one, or seen drawings or pictures. Where did you run across one? Did somebody publish pictures of one?
ryan.tur...@shaw.ca wrote: > I made this machine because I live in Canada so buying fuse needs a > license. It's probably going to be for personal use because I doubt > the fuse will beat commercial quality. I haven't even seen black > powder in my life so I am trying to track some down. A couple people > recommended ProLine shooting which is only open on weekdays so I will > see if that works out.
> I thought about the lacquer and drying tunnel but I will probbably > apply it in a seperate process due to the amount of space the machine > would take.
> Currently I will need to re-think the way the fuse gets pulled through > the machine because it just winds on a little bar (aprox diameter > .25"). After four or five meters wind onto it, the diameter gets large > enough to change the feed speed.
> K'nex is surprisingly good for this type of stuff though. Its very > strong, easy to modify and build and most importantly, is designed for > lots of moving parts so all the gears work flawlessly. The fact that > the motor worked was an unexpected bonus.
> If the black powder doesn't feed properly I will add a vibrator or > something to the funnel. If that doesn't work, I will wet the tracer > threads before they go through the funnel so that they pull the black > powder through. If even that fails, I will pull all four tracer > threads through black match slurry and then wrap them up (essentially > making black match covered in thread and lacquer)
> It is far from finished but hopefully I will end up with a flawlessly > working fuse machine.
ryan.tur...@shaw.ca wrote: > I have been working on this one for a while and haven't said much about > it because I really didn't think it would work.
> It is fully motorized and makes about two meters an minute. It hasn't > jammed once yet but I wouldn't leave it unattended.
> Here is the real kicker. Its made completely out of *K'nex* (with the > exception of the dies). Thats right, 100% made from a plastic kids > toy. To top it off, the K'nex motors (which appear to be completely > covered in a plastic casing) are powerful enough to run the entire > machine alone!
> Its by no means perfect, I'll probably redo the top (white thread) die > and the blue thread is too thin. It has only been tested with sugar > but it works beautifully with it.
> http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/8294/whitedieonetk9.jpg > The "White" die (named because the first thread is white) is where it > happens. It took two tries to get a working die, this is really the > only important part. The brass tubing needs to be lowered as far as > possible without jamming up the white threads wrapping around it. > Currently about three quarters of the sugar that leaves the funnel gets > woven into the fuse.
> http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/549/whitedietwozq6.jpg > This view is a bit clearer. Its pretty much magic that it works, I > never expected it to weave in so easily. It doesn't look like its > possible for thread to just wrap around a powder but it works!
> http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/16/bluediexp5.jpg > Here is the second die (the "blue" one). The machine isn't operating > when I took these pictures so there is no sugar. The blue die isn't > really that important.
> http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/2848/comparisonoh5.jpg > This is a comparison of the fuse with no sugar inside (left one) and > fuse with sugar inside (right one). > As you can see, the sugar can work its way out (which is why I need > thicker thread) but it works beautifully.
> http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/5566/fuseonesa8.jpg > Just a close up of the fuse. The sugar on the ground didn't leak from > the fuse, any sugar that doesn't get woven into the machine hits the > spinning disks and flies everywhere. I'll have to use the machine > outside.
> I found that the only two factors that affect the machine is the feed > rate and the first die. Without the first die, the machine doesn't > weave in any of the sugar. If the feed rate is too slow the sugar > won't leak out but it doesn't get woven in properly either. Its much > better to pull the thread through too fast than too slow As soon as > the tracer (black ones that go through the funnel) threads start > twisting, the machine wont work.
> I haven't tested the machine without the tracer threads but I think > they make a big difference. In the finished fuse, they are not twisted > at all and you can see that the sugar is suspended between them. They > also control the sugars feed rate so the fuse is a constant diameter.
Diadem wrote: > The design is close enough > that you must have seen a real one, or seen drawings or pictures. Where > did you run across one? Did somebody publish pictures of one?
I just improvised based on pictures and descriptions on the internet: http://www.truetex.com/visco.htm Was the easiest to find although I recall seeing one other working Visco machine and pictures of a third that may not have worked.
The concept is actually quite simple once you stop focusing on how the hell string manages to wrap itself around powder. Just two spinning disks that wind string together in opposing directions and you have the machine.
I chose to put one disk on top of the other for simplicity and used k'nex because I have a lot of it and it seemed perfect for the job. I believe that my machine out of k'nex may actually be more reliable and faster than some of the wood machines. When its running it runs like clockwork and if I added a hand crank or a more powerful motor it could probably run at twice the current speed.
That's what I thought. Yours is much closer to a real one than the one in the link you gave me.
For speed control the originals have a phenolic wheel attached to the main drive gear on the bottom of the column. It is about 3" in diameter (It could be bigger). The fuse wraps around it 5 or 6 times then goes on to the first lacquer pulley.
You should have no problem with powder being pulled through. Gravity almost does it, but with the string pulling through it should come out like lightning. The originals have a hardened die (I can't remember the diameter right off the top of my head) that the first wrap gets pulled through to tighten and size the core. This die had to be hardened to Rockwell 60. Normal steel will were out in a couple of hours and your fuse would be double the size by the end of the 10,000 foot roll.
Its great to have someone who knows how these machines work. By the hardened die do you mean a tight "choke", lets say 2.2mm that the fuse gets forced through to crush the black powder to that size? And this would be separate from the first section where the black powder gets wrapped in string? Or should the first die also crush the black powder together?
Sorry I was reciting from memory, something you should never do when you get old. I had to dig out some pictures of mine to refresh my memory.
There were two dies, one at the bottom of the top part which basically regulated the amount of black powder in the core. This one did not wear as often but was hardened. Then there was the main sizing die. This one was the nominal diameter minus the thickness of the lacquer. This one wore the most
About the drive again, it was not one, it was 2 phenolic wheels about 4 inches in diameter that were geared to the main drive. Each wheel had 4 grooves. If you looked at it from the end the fuse would be weaved in a figure eight pattern back and forth over the drive wheels and then finally out to the lacquer wheel.
ryan.tur...@shaw.ca wrote: > Its great to have someone who knows how these machines work. By the > hardened die do you mean a tight "choke", lets say 2.2mm that the fuse > gets forced through to crush the black powder to that size? And this > would be separate from the first section where the black powder gets > wrapped in string? Or should the first die also crush the black powder > together?
Do you have any experence with the Mindstorm, or the new NXT? That's a piece of work. Maybe you don't want to showoff by making a CNC visco fuse maker. That's a piece of art. Thanks for making me feel insugnificant. ( I guessed how to spell that)! Dan
ryan.tur...@shaw.ca wrote: > Its great to have someone who knows how these machines work. By the > hardened die do you mean a tight "choke", lets say 2.2mm that the fuse > gets forced through to crush the black powder to that size? And this > would be separate from the first section where the black powder gets > wrapped in string? Or should the first die also crush the black powder > together?
Richard J Kinch wrote: > May I add your photos to that page? A splendid improvisation!
I would be honored. I am currently working on an addition of nq and drying tunnel. I would add some more pictures but I don't know if it will work yet. I also took the opportunity to re-make both dies. The first one is much more accurate now (but still untested).
Funny thing...I tried making a ball mill out of K'NEX, but as it turns out, the motors (I used 2 of them) aren't powerful enough to turn even an EMPTY jar, but I figured that much prior to the experiment. I have a lot of them, too, so eventually, if you ever get more detailed pictures, or even write instructions, I'd love to get a copy to reproduce the machine myself. Fantastic work, my friend.
100%Pyro wrote: > Funny thing...I tried making a ball mill out of K'NEX, but as it turns > out, the motors (I used 2 of them) aren't powerful enough to turn even > an EMPTY jar, but I figured that much prior to the experiment. I have a > lot of them, too, so eventually, if you ever get more detailed > pictures, or even write instructions, I'd love to get a copy to > reproduce the machine myself. Fantastic work, my friend.
Haha, I tried the exact same thing with the same results. If this works out il definetly put up detailed pictures/drawings.
>>The design is close enough >>that you must have seen a real one, or seen drawings or pictures. Where >>did you run across one? Did somebody publish pictures of one?
> I just improvised based on pictures and descriptions on the internet: > http://www.truetex.com/visco.htm > Was the easiest to find although I recall seeing one other working > Visco machine and pictures of a third that may not have worked.
> The concept is actually quite simple once you stop focusing on how the > hell string manages to wrap itself around powder. Just two spinning > disks that wind string together in opposing directions and you have the > machine.
> I chose to put one disk on top of the other for simplicity and used > k'nex because I have a lot of it and it seemed perfect for the job. I > believe that my machine out of k'nex may actually be more reliable and > faster than some of the wood machines. When its running it runs like > clockwork and if I added a hand crank or a more powerful motor it could > probably run at twice the current speed.
Ryan, Your Visco machine is truly amazing! I uploaded a collection of some other Visco machine pictures for you. I've had them for some time and I believe they all came from links previously posted here (this is not Yuv's machine which you've already seen at the truetex site). Unfortunately I don't recall what sites they came from anymore. One of the pictures is a patent drawing of a machine which uses a wrap of either paper or cloth tape around the powder, which is then overwrapped with string. The rest of them are photos of two different machines.
dude that is seriously awsome! I was always woundering how those fuses were made. though you should have it go through a stage of nitrocellulose laquer so then it could be like a real visco. but still great job! this is one of the most interesting things I've seen on this group.
ryan.tur...@shaw.ca wrote: > I have been working on this one for a while and haven't said much about > it because I really didn't think it would work.
> It is fully motorized and makes about two meters an minute. It hasn't > jammed once yet but I wouldn't leave it unattended.
> Here is the real kicker. Its made completely out of *K'nex* (with the > exception of the dies). Thats right, 100% made from a plastic kids > toy. To top it off, the K'nex motors (which appear to be completely > covered in a plastic casing) are powerful enough to run the entire > machine alone!
> Its by no means perfect, I'll probably redo the top (white thread) die > and the blue thread is too thin. It has only been tested with sugar > but it works beautifully with it.
> http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/8294/whitedieonetk9.jpg > The "White" die (named because the first thread is white) is where it > happens. It took two tries to get a working die, this is really the > only important part. The brass tubing needs to be lowered as far as > possible without jamming up the white threads wrapping around it. > Currently about three quarters of the sugar that leaves the funnel gets > woven into the fuse.
> http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/549/whitedietwozq6.jpg > This view is a bit clearer. Its pretty much magic that it works, I > never expected it to weave in so easily. It doesn't look like its > possible for thread to just wrap around a powder but it works!
> http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/16/bluediexp5.jpg > Here is the second die (the "blue" one). The machine isn't operating > when I took these pictures so there is no sugar. The blue die isn't > really that important.
> http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/2848/comparisonoh5.jpg > This is a comparison of the fuse with no sugar inside (left one) and > fuse with sugar inside (right one). > As you can see, the sugar can work its way out (which is why I need > thicker thread) but it works beautifully.
> http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/5566/fuseonesa8.jpg > Just a close up of the fuse. The sugar on the ground didn't leak from > the fuse, any sugar that doesn't get woven into the machine hits the > spinning disks and flies everywhere. I'll have to use the machine > outside.
> I found that the only two factors that affect the machine is the feed > rate and the first die. Without the first die, the machine doesn't > weave in any of the sugar. If the feed rate is too slow the sugar > won't leak out but it doesn't get woven in properly either. Its much > better to pull the thread through too fast than too slow As soon as > the tracer (black ones that go through the funnel) threads start > twisting, the machine wont work.
> I haven't tested the machine without the tracer threads but I think > they make a big difference. In the finished fuse, they are not twisted > at all and you can see that the sugar is suspended between them. They > also control the sugars feed rate so the fuse is a constant diameter.
These are of an original visco machine. This is old #8 from United Fireworks. This machine ran with all the others for decades making that all important cherry bomb fuse. These pictures are circa 1986 before I cleaned it up.
1. You can soleve the powder "leaking" problem by having a faster twist rate of the first die or by narrowing it's hole.
2. The second die IS important. It's responsible for keeping the fuse from falling apart. However, you can use less than 8 threads for this.
3. The machine will act very different with real BP. It may cause some binding at the mouth of the first die, so be ready to re-form it. Such binding or drag will also cause strain on the fuse, and hence on the entire frame and motor.
4. Untill you get BP, you can try 65/35 KNO3/sugar mix. It burns quite well. Just be sure to finely grind and mix them.
