indefinite article
Nick Wedd
a consonant (other than h), or a y, it has the form "a". Examples: "a
cat", "a big dog", "a year", "a red ant".
Rule 2: When the indefinite article precedes something that starts with
an a, e, i or o, it takes the form "an". Examples: "an aardvark", "an
easy puzzle".
With u, either "a" or "an" may be correct: "a useless object", "a unit",
"an ugly man". People differ about h: "a hotel", "an hotel".
This puzzle asks you to find an exception to rule 2.
Nick
--
Nick Wedd ni...@maproom.co.uk
Fred the Wonder Worm
In article <G+$qV+uUW...@maproom.demon.co.uk>,
Nick Wedd <ni...@maproom.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Rule 2: When the indefinite article precedes something that starts with
> an a, e, i or o, it takes the form "an". Examples: "an aardvark", "an
> easy puzzle".
> This puzzle asks you to find an exception to rule 2.
There are a few ones that come to mind, but for nationalistic
reasons I will choose (rot13d) 'n rhpnylcghf gerr'.
Cheers,
Geoff.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geoff Bailey (Fred the Wonder Worm) | Programmer by trade --
ft...@maths.usyd.edu.au | Gameplayer by vocation.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Perry Jr
SPOILER SPACE
(IN CASE I GET IT RIGHT)
A eucalyptis tree?
--
//*================================================================++
|| Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 ||
|| 847-952-9729 slap...@rcn.com [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! ||
++================================================================*//
Bernie Deitrick
"Nick Wedd" <ni...@maproom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:G+$qV+uUW...@maproom.demon.co.uk...
Any word that starts with a long u sound
a euphimism
a eulogy
a eunuch
etc. etc.
Bernie
Bernie Deitrick
Mark Brader
> Rule 2: When the indefinite article precedes something that starts with
> an a, e, i or o, it takes the form "an". Examples: "an aardvark", "an
> easy puzzle".
25
24
23
22
21
20
19
18
17
16
15
14
13
12
11
10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
This wasn't even a one-minute problem.
--
Mark Brader | Caution
m...@vex.net | Do not run on the stairs
Toronto | Use the hand rail
-- notice at British train station
Bill Smythe
> .... Rule 2: When the indefinite article precedes something that
starts with
> an a, e, i or o, it takes the form "an". Examples: "an aardvark", "an
> .... This puzzle asks you to find an exception to rule 2. ....
A euphism? A eulogy?
Bill Smythe
Dan Tilque
> "Nick Wedd" <ni...@maproom.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:G+$qV+uUW...@maproom.demon.co.uk...
>>
>> Rule 2: When the indefinite article precedes something that
>> starts with an a, e, i or o, it takes the form "an".
>> Examples: "an aardvark", "an easy puzzle".
>>
>> This puzzle asks you to find an exception to rule 2.
>
>
>
>
> Any word that starts with a long u sound
>
> a euphimism
> a eulogy
> a eunuch
Not true. Those words start with a Y sound. English has few words
that start with a long U sound and those are generally written
with an oo-. Examples: oops, oolong, oodles, ooze.
--
Dan Tilque
Nick Wedd
<m...@vex.net> writes
Ok, much easier than I thought. Lots of examples starting with e, and
one starting with o.
My intended answer was "a ouija board".
Martin DeMello
Might be fun to see how many unique answers we can get - so far, two
with o and only one with 'e' (they all collapse to 'eu*').
martin
Risto Lankinen
"Martin DeMello" <martin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:RFlUc.131911$gE.39204@pd7tw3no...
> Nick Wedd <ni...@maproom.co.uk> wrote:
> > In message <10i2ss7...@corp.supernews.com>, Mark Brader
> > <m...@vex.net> writes
> > >
> >
> > Ok, much easier than I thought. Lots of examples starting with e, and
> > one starting with o.
> >
> > My intended answer was "a ouija board".
>
> Might be fun to see how many unique answers we can get - so far, two
> with o and only one with 'e' (they all collapse to 'eu*').
With that as a hint I found words "ewe" and "ew" (which is an
alternate spelling for "yew") adding the pattern 'ew*'.
- Risto -
Risto Lankinen
"Risto Lankinen" <rlan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rtmUc.22968$k4.4...@news1.nokia.com...
Oh, and here's another one: "a one-way ticket". That doesn't
establish a pattern, though, because most 'on*' words get an "an".
- Risto -
Martin DeMello
>
> Oh, and here's another one: "a one-way ticket". That doesn't
> establish a pattern, though, because most 'on*' words get an "an".
>
Mark Brader did 'one' already (that was the other one I was talking
about for 'o')
So we have
a:
e: eu*, ewe
i:
o: on{e,ce}, ouija
u: u*
Bill Smythe
> .... That doesn't
> establish a pattern, though, because most 'on*' words get an "an". ....
Yes, but most "one-" words get an "a" -- a one-horse town is another.
Bill Smythe
Jugoslav Dujic
...but the rules in the puzzle are actually misstated -- the actual rules
are well-known:
http://www.alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxaanbef.html
--
Jugoslav
___________
www.geocities.com/jdujic
Please reply to the newsgroup.
You can find my real e-mail on my home page above.
Mark Brader
>>> .... Rule 2: When the indefinite article precedes something that starts
>>> with an a, e, i or o, it takes the form "an". Examples: "an aardvark", "an
>>> easy puzzle". ....
>>> .... This puzzle asks you to find an exception to rule 2. ....
Jugoslav Dujic:
> ...the rules in the puzzle are actually misstated -- the actual rules
> are well-known ...
Of course they are. The puzzle is to find cases where the "rules" as
stated in the puzzle conflict with the actual rules.
--
Mark Brader ...the scariest words of the afternoon:
Toronto "Hey, don't worry, I've read all about
m...@vex.net doing this sort of thing!" -- Vernor Vinge
Matthew Newell
the only way I can see word starting with letter "I" where the vowel is not
first sound is Iacopo - the italian name.
ie a Iacopo Porri remix (he's an Italian dj).
a:
e: eu*, ewe (unwritten but voiced "Y")
i: ia (unwritten but voiced "y")
o: on{e,ce}, ouija (unwritten but voiced "w")
u: u* (unwritten but voiced "y")
now looking for an "A" - would also be curious to know if any vowel had two
different unwritten consonants .
regards
matthew newell
Jugoslav Dujic
| Nick Wedd:
|||| .... Rule 2: When the indefinite article precedes something that starts
|||| with an a, e, i or o, it takes the form "an". Examples: "an aardvark", "an
|||| easy puzzle". ....
|||| .... This puzzle asks you to find an exception to rule 2. ....
|
| Jugoslav Dujic:
|| ...the rules in the puzzle are actually misstated -- the actual rules
|| are well-known ...
|
| Of course they are. The puzzle is to find cases where the "rules" as
| stated in the puzzle conflict with the actual rules.
...but my point was that it was pretty much misdirected -- anyone
(consciously) knowing the real-life rule can easily come up with
counter-examples of the "rule as stated in the puzzle", so IMHO
it's not much of a puzzle.
I wrote "consciously" because (I guess) many native speakers use
a/an correctly without knowing the exact rule; we foreigners have
to learn it -- is it so? (OK, this is more suitable for AUE/AEU,
but still...)
Btw, is leading "Y" ever pronounced as a wovel (probably not in a
"native" English word)? I mean, is there a situation where one should use
"an Y*****"
?
mUs1Ka
>
> Btw, is leading "Y" ever pronounced as a wovel (probably not in a
> "native" English word)? I mean, is there a situation where one should
> use
>
> "an Y*****"
>
compound".
--
Ray
Matthew Newell
"Jugoslav Dujic" <jdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2oen2vF...@uni-berlin.de...
An ytterbium isotope is being considered as a radiation source for
portable X-ray machines
There are probably more obvious examples
Matthew Newell
Nick Wedd
<jdu...@yahoo.com> writes
>...but my point was that it was pretty much misdirected -- anyone
>(consciously) knowing the real-life rule can easily come up with
>counter-examples of the "rule as stated in the puzzle", so IMHO
>it's not much of a puzzle.
Agreed
>I wrote "consciously" because (I guess) many native speakers use
>a/an correctly without knowing the exact rule; we foreigners have
>to learn it -- is it so? (OK, this is more suitable for AUE/AEU,
>but still...)
>
>Btw, is leading "Y" ever pronounced as a wovel (probably not in a
>"native" English word)? I mean, is there a situation where one should use
>
>"an Y*****"
An ytterbium bracelet
Moshe Jacobson
> Not true. Those words start with a Y sound. English has few words
> that start with a long U sound and those are generally written
> with an oo-. Examples: oops, oolong, oodles, ooze.
How about an uzi?
Moshe
--
*** SPAM BLOCK: Remove bra before replying! ***
http://runslinux.net :: moshe at runslinux dot net :: AIM: Jehsom
Bill Smythe
> .... is leading "Y" ever pronounced as a wovel (probably not in a
> "native" English word)? ....
When I was 9 years old I ran across "ylang-ylang" in the dictionary. I
think it's a tropical tree of some sort.
Bill Smythe
Moshe Jacobson
Matthew Russotto
Jugoslav Dujic <jdu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Btw, is leading "Y" ever pronounced as a wovel (probably not in a
>"native" English word)? I mean, is there a situation where one should use
>
>"an Y*****"
The elements "ytterbium" and "yttrium" comes to mind, as in "an
ytterbium deposit". The words are from a Swedish town.
Ben Zimmer
>
> "Martin DeMello" <martin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:lCnUc.125362$M95.70747@pd7tw1no...
> >
> >
> > a:
> > e: eu*, ewe
> > i:
> > o: on{e,ce}, ouija
> > u: u*
>
> the only way I can see word starting with letter "I" where the vowel is not
> first sound is Iacopo - the italian name.
> ie a Iacopo Porri remix (he's an Italian dj).
>
> a:
> e: eu*, ewe (unwritten but voiced "Y")
> i: ia (unwritten but voiced "y")
> o: on{e,ce}, ouija (unwritten but voiced "w")
> u: u* (unwritten but voiced "y")
>
> now looking for an "A" -
Cheating a bit, there's "a AAA map", where "AAA" is pronounced "triple
A".
What about exceptions going the other way, where a word beginning with a
consonant takes "an"? H is easy -- "honor", "hour", etc. Are there
other examples with silent consonants?
There are also cases where the leading consonant is pronounced as its
letter name, as in initialisms like "MC" and "RN", or in these more
"word-like" examples:
an F-stop
an H-bomb
an L-shaped room
an M-ary tree
an N-type semiconductor
an R-rated movie
an S-curve
an X-ray
Bernie Deitrick
My dictionary has a long U for the pronunciation of each of those...
Bernie
Prai Jei
<4122595B...@midway.uchicago.edu>:
Numbers similarly where "eight" is the first element pronounced:
an 18-wheeler
an 80386 processor
--
Paul Townsend
I put it down there, and when I went back to it, there it was GONE!
Interchange the alphabetic elements to reply
Mark Brader
> > that start with a long U sound and those are generally written
> > with an oo-. Examples: oops, oolong, oodles, ooze.
Bernie Deitrick:
> My dictionary has a long U for the pronunciation of each of those...
Dan and Bernie are not disagreeing over pronunciation, but terminology.
The way I learned it, "long U" in English means the sound of the name
of the letter U, which is just like the word "you"; it consists of a
Y-sound followed by a the sound in "oops" and "ooze", which I learned
as "long OO". In some other languages, the latter sound (or something
like it) by itself would be "long U". It doesn't surprise me to see
someone applying that terminology to English, but they should be aware
that many English-speakers will consider it wrong.
--
Mark Brader | "No, I'm disagreeing with you. That doesn't mean I'm not
m...@vex.net | listening to you or understanding what you're saying:
Toronto | I'm doing all three at the same time." -- Aaron Sorkin
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Jim Gillogly
> Dan Tilque:
>> > Not true. Those words start with a Y sound. English has few words
>> > that start with a long U sound and those are generally written
>> > with an oo-. Examples: oops, oolong, oodles, ooze.
>
> Bernie Deitrick:
>> My dictionary has a long U for the pronunciation of each of those...
>
> Dan and Bernie are not disagreeing over pronunciation, but terminology.
> The way I learned it, "long U" in English means the sound of the name
> of the letter U, which is just like the word "you"; it consists of a
> Y-sound followed by a the sound in "oops" and "ooze", which I learned
> as "long OO". In some other languages, the latter sound (or something
> like it) by itself would be "long U". It doesn't surprise me to see
> someone applying that terminology to English, but they should be aware
> that many English-speakers will consider it wrong.
I'm afraid "short" and "long" don't offer enough scope to describe
the different 'u' sounds you may hear in English. If we use "long"
to describe the 'u' sound in either or both of "pusillanimous" and
"rutabaga", then "short" still needs to cover "put" and "putt",
which are at least as different as the first pair.
Jim Gillogly
Dgates
wrote:
Is it "a" or "an" that goes before "opossum?"
Mark Brader
> > Dan and Bernie are not disagreeing over pronunciation, but terminology.
> > The way I learned it, "long U" in English means the sound of the name
> > of the letter U, which is just like the word "you"; it consists of a
> > Y-sound followed by a the sound in "oops" and "ooze", which I learned
> > as "long OO". In some other languages, the latter sound (or something
> > like it) by itself would be "long U". It doesn't surprise me to see
> > someone applying that terminology to English, but they should be aware
> > that many English-speakers will consider it wrong.
> I'm afraid "short" and "long" don't offer enough scope to describe
> the different 'u' sounds you may hear in English. If we use "long"
> to describe the 'u' sound in either or both of "pusillanimous" and
> "rutabaga", then "short" still needs to cover "put" and "putt",
> which are at least as different as the first pair.
To me those four sounds are respectively called long U, long OO, short OO,
and short U. The names only relate to *one* way the sound could be written.
--
Mark Brader, "Technically, it is readable by a human being."
Toronto, m...@vex.net -- David Slocombe
Adrian Bailey
news:10i3ed6...@corp.supernews.com...
English's "long" vowels are heard when we pronounce them as letters of the
alphabet.
A (as in able, ailment)
E (as in evil, eat)
I (as in iron, eye)
O (as in only, oaf)
U (as in use, euphonium)
This has little to do with phonetics or EFL. Have you heard of the magic e?
Adrian
Jeffrey Turner
An opossum or a 'possum.
--Jeff
--
Often war is waged only in order to
show valor; thus an inner dignity is
ascribed to war itself, and even some
philosophers have praised it as an
ennoblement of humanity, forgetting the
pronouncement of the Greek who said,
"War is an evil in as much as it produces
more wicked men than it takes away."
--Immanuel Kant
Americans will always do the right thing
- after they have exhausted every other
possibility. --Winston Churchill
Loyalty to the country always, loyalty
to the government when it deserves it.
--Mark Twain
I was against gay marriage until I found
out I didn't have to have one.
--James Carville
Martin DeMello
>
> The consonant isn't the cause; as has been pointed out, the name comes
> from Ytterby in Sweden. Swedish "y" is a vowel sound (it's basically
> the "u" in the French pronunciation of "bureau", which, pronounced in
> almost exactly the French manner, is written "byrå" in Swedish, for
> example).
Nonetheless, the consonant is the cause - cf yclept
martin
Dan Tilque
> Dan Tilque:
>>> Not true. Those words start with a Y sound. English has few
>>> words that start with a long U sound and those are generally
>>> written with an oo-. Examples: oops, oolong, oodles, ooze.
>
> Bernie Deitrick:
>> My dictionary has a long U for the pronunciation of each of
>> those...
>
> Dan and Bernie are not disagreeing over pronunciation, but
> terminology. The way I learned it, "long U" in English means
> the sound of the name of the letter U, which is just like the
> word "you"; it consists of a Y-sound followed by a the sound
> in "oops" and "ooze", which I learned as "long OO".
I don't recall ever learning that the Y-glide is part of the long
U sound. For instance, there's the cases of "dune", "plume", and
"flute" and other similar[1] examples of a long U. I don't
pronounce a Y-glide in these except at the beginning of a word
(e.g. "use"), but perhaps others do. This could be somewhat of a
dialect thing.
--
Dan Tilque
[1] Ones following the pattern of
<long_vowel><consonant><silent_E>
Michael Mendelsohn
> Mark Brader wrote:
> > Dan and Bernie are not disagreeing over pronunciation, but
> > terminology. The way I learned it, "long U" in English means
> > the sound of the name of the letter U, which is just like the
> > word "you"; it consists of a Y-sound followed by a the sound
> > in "oops" and "ooze", which I learned as "long OO".
>
> I don't recall ever learning that the Y-glide is part of the long
> U sound. For instance, there's the cases of "dune", "plume", and
> "flute" and other similar[1] examples of a long U. I don't
> pronounce a Y-glide in these except at the beginning of a word
> (e.g. "use"), but perhaps others do. This could be somewhat of a
> dialect thing.
"dune" can have a y-glide in it; I'd say it that way, and my Webster's
backs me up (it has both pronunciations).
Michael
--
Feel the stare of my burning hamster and stop smoking!
Michael Mendelsohn
> Dan Tilque schrieb:
> > I don't recall ever learning that the Y-glide is part of the long
> > U sound. For instance, there's the cases of "dune", "plume", and
> > "flute" and other similar[1] examples of a long U. I don't
> > pronounce a Y-glide in these except at the beginning of a word
> > (e.g. "use"), but perhaps others do. This could be somewhat of a
> > dialect thing.
>
> "dune" can have a y-glide in it; I'd say it that way, and my Webster's
> backs me up (it has both pronunciations).
Puzzle: Can you find words with both u-pronunciations that
belong to the same category?
Example:
musical instruments: bugle ("bjugle") - flute
Martin DeMello
> >
> It's another example, and it's even possible (I have no idea) that
> it's consistently true. However, that doesn't make it the *cause* -
> just a pragmatic guide. As has already been demonstrated, in the case
> of "yttrium" and "ytterbium" (the examples that everyone came up with
> first), it's coincidence.
Hm - good point, but I'm not entirely convinced. English tends to mangle
the pronunciation of loanwords in a lot of cases (see 'quixotic' for
instance); is there any example of a word starting y<vowel> that follows
the y-as-i pronunciation?
martin
Martin DeMello
>
> Puzzle: Can you find words with both u-pronunciations that
> belong to the same category?
>
> Example:
>
> musical instruments: bugle ("bjugle") - flute
Vegetables - cucumber, rhubarb
martin
Puzzle Monster
> What about exceptions going the other way, where a word beginning with a
> consonant takes "an"? H is easy -- "honor", "hour", etc.
How do you feel about these - do they work?
chor
droid
gina
kle
swer
tique
vil
:)
Michael Mendelsohn
angles: acute, obtuse
Actually, this is not pefect because obtuse can be pronounced both ways.
Virgil
Michael Mendelsohn <keine.Wer...@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de>
wrote:
> Martin DeMello schrieb:
> > Michael Mendelsohn <keine.Wer...@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de> wrote:
> > > Puzzle: Can you find words with both u-pronunciations that
> > > belong to the same category?
> > >
> > > Example:
> > >
> > > musical instruments: bugle ("bjugle") - flute
> > Vegetables - cucumber, rhubarb
>
> angles: acute, obtuse
>
> Actually, this is not pefect because obtuse can be pronounced both ways.
Not by my tongue.
Michael Mendelsohn
Not by mine, either, but I checked the dictionary.
appearance: cute, brute
Michael
--
Time flies like the wind.
Fruit flies like salad.
Mensanator
>--
>Time flies like the wind.
>Fruit flies like salad.
I've only heard that as
Time flies like an arrow,
Fruit flies like a banana.
which I think has greater utility:
http://members.aol.com/mensanator/sculpey/banana/p1.htm
--
Mensanator
Ace of Clubs
Ol' Gres
<keine.Wer...@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de> wrote:
>Puzzle: Can you find words with both u-pronunciations that
>belong to the same category?
>
>Example:
>
>musical instruments: bugle ("bjugle") - flute
>
>Michael
>--
+ ukulele?
Geoff G
Michael Mendelsohn
> On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 07:52:20 +0200, Michael Mendelsohn
> <keine.Wer...@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de> wrote:
>
> >Puzzle: Can you find words with both u-pronunciations that
> >belong to the same category?
> >
> >Example:
> >
> >musical instruments: bugle ("bjugle") - flute
>
Small peruvian stringed instruments: ukulele, ukulele
Nicely spotted!